>>107892690
give up this is a local model board now

>>107892690
I'm not exactly sure what happened but he announced the end of Funtoo late last year. My guess is he saw the current state of linux and the fact that most of the modern users aren't interested in the wolfpack philosophy and got sick on the lack of help and spending more time hacking around IBM's spyware than doing interesting fun stuff.

>A new evolution of Funtoo's core ideas is being built from the ground up, unencumbered by legacy toolchains, with a target for an initial public release in early 2026.
Slopcoded distro confirmed.

>>107894991
They are obviously talking about finally eliminating the python dependency required by portage (and hopefully bash too).

The Funtoo project is probably not possible to maintain anymore due to the fact that Gentoo has been screwed up so badly by the Google employees currently ruining it. The new EAPI specs are terrible. Along with the various retarded changes over the past 4-5 years. Like what they've done to the kernel and OpenRC along with the whole every package now making a user account thing.

>>107894991
you seriously sound like a bot but congrats on clicking the link
>>107895880
what's wrong with python and bash? bash is pretty much omnipresent in the linux world, and python is convenient for writing scripts, which should make it a decent fit for portage since the language being slow for running gazillion of loops and branches matters very little when we're just running one off scripts for fetching packages and telling a real compiler to do the heavy lifting. am i missing something?

>>107895953
>What's wrong with python?
It's a huge pain in the ass to update when it's required to run the basic parts of the OS stack. If you weren't around for the 2.x -> 3.x switch over then consider yourself lucky. Dealing with python targets in Gentoo has always been a lot of trouble. It could have all been easily avoided by using C or even basic sh scripting instead. Sourcemage is much easier to maintain for an example and it basically does the same thing that portage does.

Python is also slow as fuck.

>bash
The hard requirement on bash means you can't replace the root shell with anything else like fish, zsh, ksh or whatever the fuck else you'd prefer. It should be easy to swap the root shell but 25+ years of legacy cruft has always prevented this.

Portage has always been a slow piece of shit. It's badly designed. There were multiple plans to eventually replace it but like most things people have just added more bullshit on top over the years and no one wants to break existing ebuilds. Hence why the few attempts at replacing it with something written in C have not caught on.

Portage was forgivable for years due to what you got in return (USE flags and the community providing ebuilds). But now that the Gentoo project has been derailed on purpose there is no point in continuing to deal with it.

It would take me far too long to explain what all has been ruined in Gentoo since about 2015. Just know it's really bad now and most of the power users have been leaving in droves for the past 5-7 years because we all saw the writing on the wall. When they started banning people, deleting entire forums and openly bragging about it on the mailing lists we all knew it was over. There was hope that maybe we could take the project back through the council but they've subverted the democratic political system to the point not that it's impossible to vote them out. Hence why Funtoo was started in the first place.

>>107895953
>>107896036
>Python
I should have added. When you're just using it for Portage it isn't too bad (aside from being a slow piece of shit). But when you have say 3 ebuilds all wanting different versions of python then you get into a mess.

This is why python and perl have always been avoided for the "base system" of most Linux distros (to borrow a term from the BSDs). Instead people rely on sh scripts because they're more portable and don't pull in so much garbage that's hard to maintain. Same goes for bash vs. sh. It's easier to write proper portable scripts than to rely on bash. Having a hard requirement on bash just makes it much harder to maintain the system and restricts choice.

If you were going to have something like python in your "base system" using perl would be a better way to go. But perl has its own host of problems. Therefor, anyone with good sense that thinks they need something more than sh scripting will always go for C instead. C is much faster at run time, it's easier to maintain within your "base system" since libc is already a basic requirement for everything else and it's portable.

>>107896036
I see. Did you get to develop for Gentoo? Any insider information on what Drobbins has in store?
>deleting entire forums and openly bragging about it on the mailing lists we all knew it was over
I assume you're talking about what ended up spawning otw20
>It would take me far too long to explain what all has been ruined in Gentoo since about 2015
If you have the time to explain or to spoonfeed me some links I'm all ears

>>107896093
>If you have the time to explain or to spoonfeed me some links I'm all ears
I don't have time to pull up links. But off the top of my head;
>Kernel
Currently the guy maintain the gentoo-kernel is shipping a bunch of patches by default that you do not want on your system. All old timers use vanillia-kernel for this reason.
>init
There is a guy camping the OpenRC project that has refused PRs from the community for years. He made a bunch of bad changes most everyone didn't want. Most old timers run and maintain an older version of OpenRC that you have to get from GURU now
>systemd shims
A bunch of projects we used to maintain inside the project were killed off by this same group on purpose and replaced with stuff pulled from systemd's repo. Usually with underhanded tactics. For example, the guy squatting on OpenRC sat on a PR to fix a bug in opentmpfiles for 2 years. Then declared it was a security risk on day and they replaced it with systemd's tmpfiles replacement. Which had the exact same bug and as far as I know it hasn't been fixed. They did the same thing with consolekit and forced logind on to all systems randomly one day despite the community not wanting it. Along with a bunch of other stuff like that.

Those are just the ones I remember there have been tons of other things they did. The new EAPI stuff is a huge mess no one wanted. They've basically made themselves dictators for life by abusing the voting for the political process. They've silenced and banned anyone that called them out over the years. Google and IBM employees openly brag about this stuff on the mailing lists.

Gentoo is basically Fedora built from source now. The default OpenRC profile even ships a binary blob for Rust's compiler by default these days along with a host of other stuff you don't want.

They try to coast on the reputation the project got 15+ years ago. Anyone that tries to contribute in a positive way gets banned pretty quickly.

>>107896155
One important one I forgot is the /usr merge. For years we maintained the system in a way where you had the option to run /usr on its own partition (or even on a network drive). They've recently pushed a policy where the /usr merge is going to be a hard requirement. They're in the process of making that happen right now. First they pushed merged /usr as the new default then they plan to take the option away all together in the coming year. /usr on its own partition is important for a lot of people running systems that aren't "Fedora from source".

The Gentoo project basically got subverted when Google started using it as a base for ChromeOS. You're just beta testing for them at this point. It's their project now.

While they've been doing all of this they've also blocked a lot of things that would have improved the actual distro as a whole. Like fixing the various problems with portage.

In other words; They've done just about everything in their power to remove end user choice. Which is what the project was founded on and what it's supposed to be about. You can't even run a static /dev these days without tons of hacking.

Most of the old timers are only still there because they've invested so many years into the project and there is no where else to really go. We all use local overlays and maintain patches for older ebuilds. Plenty of people have fled or have made plans to leave though. I ended up on the BSDs.

>>107896093
>Did you get to develop for Gentoo?
Yes for years. Now I mostly contribute to OpenBSD. I tried working with FreeBSD but it's suffering from a lot of the same problems as the major Linux distros now. So I'm mostly only an end user and don't send back patches.

I have no idea what Drobbins is up to now. I haven't spoken with him since 2020 or so. I did contribute to Funtoo for awhile but I have limited time so I wasn't able to spend as much time on it as I'd like. I also didn't like some of the decisions he made.

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>>107896209
pufferfish wit da big ass lip

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>>107892690

>>107896155
>>107896209
thanks for taking the time. the BSDs were on my list of things to check but it's a bitch how you can't natively fuck around with Cuda in them since as far as I know Nvidia doesn't provide the drivers. same thing for musl distros. i've been using Void but it too prohibits a dedicated usr partition and recommends shit like elogind in the manual, fuck that
>>107896283
now for the cuck license bot

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>>107896036
>The hard requirement on bash
>>107896155
>Currently the guy maintain the gentoo-kernel is shipping a bunch of patches by default that you do not want on your system. All old timers use vanillia-kernel for this reason.
>the guy squatting on OpenRC sat on a PR to fix a bug in opentmpfiles for 2 years.
>The default OpenRC profile even ships a binary blob for Rust's compiler by default these days along with a host of other stuff you don't want.
What the actual fuck. I guess it's Artix or OpenBSD now.

>>107896363
you can always try alpine if you're willing to ditch glibc or parabola of all things

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>>107896093
>I assume you're talking about what ended up spawning otw20
I should have touched on this as well. Yes I'm referring to that.

What happened is this; They started applying heavy handed censorship to the forums. It got to the point where you couldn't talk about a lot of subjects on the support/technical sub-forums without the thread being closed and if you kept up having your account banned. Most of this had to do with the usual stuff that'll get you in trouble on all mainstream Linux forums these days. systemd, rust, IBM/Microsoft/Google influence, FreeDesktop/Red Hat and related subjects. All of this became something you weren't allowed to talk about at all. Usually faggot janny stuff like closing threads and declaring things to be "off topic" and/or "bad for the forum". You know what I mean.

This ended up driving a lot of old timers to the Off Topic (Off the Wall) forum where you could talk about anything. So really long threads ended up there where this stuff was talked about and where people that wanted to run systems that weren't close to the new defaults could gather, work together, share ebuilds/overlays and all that good stuff.

This was obviously a problem for the group that subverted the project. Since users were not only maintaining ebuilds and sharing tips they were also calling these people out by name, archiving their posts on the mailing lists and documenting things like the companies they were working for (Google, M$, IBM/Red Hat etc.) and showing clearly who now had influence and was paying to ruin the project and subvert the democratic process that was supposed to keep it fair for the users.

So what they did was claim that the thread where people had been ranting about politics for years was suddenly this huge problem due to racism and Donald Trump. Then they used that as an excuse to delete the entire forum and ban a bunch of users. Of course it was simply an excuse to nuke those threads.

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>>107896347
If you need CUDA then FreeBSD is your only option as far as the BSDs go. They provide proper drivers. But keep in mind you'll be running into the same issue with Nvidia that you currently have on Linux. My Nvidia card is no longer getting driver updates as of a few months ago on any OS. Despite the fact that it's still perfectly good and can run all modern games I've tried in addition to being able to do a bunch of AI related stuff. Sure it's a bit long in the tooth now (GTX980Ti) but still perfectly fine for my day-to-day use. I still off load some of my video processing to it all of the time (filters for encoding mostly). It certainly runs all the games I care about just fine. But now I'm stuck using older kernels if I want to continue using it on *nix OSs or running an older version of Windows (currently still on Windows 7 on that PC with a Gentoo dual-boot).

My advice is to not buy Nvidia hardware. I only have this card because someone gifted it to me. Most everything I want to do heavy processing for is better on the CPU anyway even if it takes longer. But I mostly only do video encoding (x264 and x265 mostly) and that's been the way things have been since I started doing that back in the day on Amgia and later a 600Mhz P3. GPU encoding has always looked like shit and no matter how good hardware gets the software always catches up so a 25-30 minute episode is going to take 12-24 hours with the filtering I use. But off loading some of the filtering to the GPU is nice in some cases.

It's really too bad everyone uses python for that now. Vapoursynth is cancer and I still prefer using avisynth when I can get away with it. vapoursynth is dependency hell that's even worse than your average Linux distro.

For linux in general I see all distros converging rapidly. I don't think there is much hope for the ecosystem anymore. Unless someone does a hard fork of the kernel soon. Now that Rust is in the kernel and so much relies on libsysd it's pretty much over

>>107896448
>GPU encoding has always looked like shit
delusional

>>107896401
>parabola
most packages are horribly out-of-date, it's a nice project otherwise.
>alpine
I'll try it, thanks!

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>>107896452
I'll give you a pity (you). If you really believe this I feel bad for you. You obviously don't have great vision.

I've been doing this professionally for 20 years now and as a hobby for 30 years. I know what I'm talking about.

>>107896454
You will probably enjoy this blog: https://sysdfree.wordpress.com/

>>107896338
Posting another Lain for OP. Shame what happened to this show. Just one more thing the current batch of "enthusiasts" ruined.

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>>107896472
can you provide some evidence then also this isn't lain

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>>107896448
Could have sworn there were no proper drivers for Nvidia in FreeBSD. I'll have to check that now
>>107896492
lainfags love haibane and haibanefags love lain. it's all good
>>107896454
keep in mind alpine is minimal to the point of ridiculousness and uses musl which limits some of the proprietary stuff you can get in it. if you're fine with that then it's probably the final frontier of minimalist distros that are still usable. it's really endearing how tiny it is

>>107896544
You want the libc6-shim. Official support should be coming soon though.

>Currently the guy maintain the gentoo-kernel is shipping a bunch of patches by default that you do not want on your system

I cant find anything specific on the "security" patches applied, guess ill have to do a diff.
Hopefully the kernel gets forked soon like xorg.

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>>107896953
Its worse than you know.

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>>107896953
>>107897379
If you can read moon I encourage you to check out the really shady company he's currently working for in Japan.

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>>107897379
>>107897403
Really spooky company.

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The rabbit hole is endless.

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>>107897412
>>107897434
Nothing to see here. It's permanently closed and they just rented office space next to this location because the rent was cheap. It's operating multiple office locations all over Asia despite the parent company being permanently closed.

Don't pay any attention to the fact that one of our employees came out of nowhere and started managing a bunch of Linux kernel projects with no prior qualifications. Oh and don't worry about the fact that they're a ghost on paper and somehow managed to change their last name on a whim while living in a country that's known to be hostile towards gaijin where it's extremely difficult for someone that married a native to get their name listed in the family registry.

There is absolutely nothing strange going on here at all.

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>>107897403
>really shady company
Looks pretty cute to me.
https://www.miraclelinux.com/tech-blog/alma-chan

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>>107897635
>He rode a UFO from the planet Alma in search of his sister from a previous life, but was unable to return home due to a system failure and is now trying to repair the UFO using highly reliable AlmaLinux.

That UFO is never leaving the ground. Linux is not popular with otaku in Japan. All the ones I talk to are either all-in on NetBSD or OpenBSD.

Probably just another case of pic related.

>>107892690
>the website looks corpo-friendly now
>the text sounds so fake there's no way it is not LLM-generated
>shills his one-man company
Yep, sold out. Good fucking riddance.

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so this is it then, gentoo lost? where do we even go from here? bsd?

>>107898767
shut up retarded bot

Just a linux impotence-user here, but moving on from debian gentoo feels great for me. I get a glimpse of why you anons complain and how limted it got (like this requirement to have local /usr that sucks big times), but still what better options you have? Idfc even about use flags thats non-existing to me, I can use gcc flags, tweak kernel n shieet, that's already spectrum level unreachable for normies. Moving out to BSD or NixOS sounds like scroching earth policy

>>107896405
IIRC they had a turbolib retard trying to sue them for creating a hostile environment because people were making jokes that could be interpreted as being of a potentially sexual nature. This was unsafe for the children, and women.

arisu tachibana from imas

>>107896036
>C
>for configuring package install scripts
Now that is shitposting!

>>107897379
>arisu tachibana
wait a second that's a just an anime character. is this some gay pseudonym lmao
>>107897479
Are you for real? And this is the person is in charge of gentoo now? Jeez
>>107898636
I will concede that it is indeed off-putting but I still have some faith in drobbins considering his track record. It should release "early 2026" so we'll see.

>>107900564
Man you're the most retarded person I've seen in awhile on here. Why are you people that have such a hate boner for C such no-nothing dumb faggots? It's every time too.

They aren't sending their best to shill their crap like Rust. You don't even know ebuilds aren't configured with python despite the package manager being built in python. It's almost like you can use any type of scripting language you want in conjunction with your applications no matter what they're coded in isn't it?

>>107901413
>this is the person is in charge of gentoo now?
It isn't any one person but yes they hold a lot of sway now. They are in charge of everything to do with the kernel at the moment.

Gentoo has a council where people are supposed to be voted in by the community and not hold life time positions. But around 10-15 years ago a bunch of employees of Google, IBM and these various spook companies like the one shown above gamed the system to get voted into all the positions. Once they secured power they changed a bunch of rules and ensured they could hold life time positions and control the future of the project. Now it's impossible to vote them out because they control the actual voting process. So they just vote themselves in over and over again.

That person is just the tip of the ice berg. I could do it several more times for the council and other important positions within the community structure surrounding the project.

The original author of portage/Gentoo said many years ago that he fucked up really badly when he let the community talk him into bringing in a democratic process instead of remaining BDFL. He left for a few years to wageslave because he couldn't get any donations for Portage/Gentoo to live off of and when he returned and tried to improve Gentoo he was denied access to work on his own creation.

>>107899643
>turbolib retard
Totally not one of their own of course.

>>107899087
>Moving out to BSD or NixOS sounds like scroching earth policy
Oh yeah? Well I have bad news for you. NixOS is just Fedora from source too. Since the entire project relies on systemd and all the things mentioned above that were forced into Gentoo over the last decade. Just because you're using some autistic package manager to configure it doesn't mean it's any different at the end of the day. Guix suffers from the same problem. Just try finding any example config files that don't rely directly on everything Freedesktop and IBM are pushing hard like Rust dependency for your display manager or a config files offering anything but running a pure wayland set-up. You don't even get any good docs either either (Guix are better than Nix's though). You can't even get help with Guix most of the time because being GNU zealots they refuse to help anyone running one binary blob on their system. So 99% of Linux users.

Not to mention all the other issues with NixOS and Guix system. Anyone that's tried to run it on their day-to-day machine knows exactly what I'm talking about. It's pretty useless for a home users.

That's the main issue with Linux as a whole now. Nothing is geared to the home user. Everything is centered around providing crappy software for shared corporate environment users. Most of this shit like systemd, wayland, PAM, polkit, dbus, logind etc. has no use for a home user. A home user doesn't need multi-seat and shouldn't be concerned about another user logged into the same PC being able to see things they're doing on the machine. 99% of regular users will never use a machine with multiple people using the machine at the same time and if they are they would trust them 99% of the time. UNIX-like OSs were already multi-user anyway since UNIX v1.

They've basically shoved in a bunch of spyware, malware and backdoors by fear mongering about security.

>>107901936
Oh and don't get me wrong. I'm not against IPC because I dislike dbus. I dislike dbus because it's terrible software. I'll spare you the rant just understand it's purely retarded especially when it requires shit like javascript under the hood. It's also a massive security hole. IPC should not run in userspace in the first place. We didn't need something like dbus in the first place since we have pipes.

Same for stuff like polkit. I don't mind being able to grant more privileges to an application that needs to do something normally restricted by the user account that's not root. But this was totally unneeded we already had things like gksudo. But gksudo was deem'd not secure and purged from every last distro's repos in short order for no real reason. Just lies about how it was suddenly not secure for a user to be prompted to enter a password by the GUI.

Then we have the good old lie of suid Xorg being deem'd not-secure because
>so much buggy hard to audit code
their "secure" replacement? Millions of lines of harder to audit code (systemd+logind) running as root at all times.

Then these same people tell you it's not secure for one application being able to see what another application is doing on the same desktop session. When we had multiple ways to deal with that in Xorg already and there were easy ways to improve Xorg's security without something like logind/consolekit/etc managing things. They claim your user account having direct access to your input devices and graphics card is also not secure. Despite their crapware being granted direct access to it while it has thousands of security bugs marked "WONTFIX". These are the people that gave you the ability to gain root by using a user account named "0day" after all.

It's a real mess...

They do not care about security. They care about you not having access to your own hardware and software. They want end users using dumb terminals.

Oh and before the usual X vs. Wayland derail comes along. I'm not a fan of Xlibre either. It has made a ton of dumb decisions starting right off and it feels a lot like controlled op to me. For example, why did they feel the need to go so many versions back to fork off? That and a bunch of other bad decisions. I followed the mailing list in the first months and I saw a lot of things going on that seemed suspect. It feels like it's designed to waste time and give Freedesktop an easy boogeyman to point at while tricking people that would contribute to an actual fork a time sink to waste their effort on.

OpenBSD has maintained a patch set (some call it a fork) that has done several positive things to improve the build system and security of the project. Yet their patches are almost never accepted by upstream.

Then we have the old lie being parroted that
>The original Xorg developers don't even want to work on it
That's not true. Freedesktop (IBM) gained control over the project and have blocked people from sending PRs and patches for years now. Most of the security fear mongering they do does not apply at all to a home user. All their claims about wayland being somehow more secure boil down to things that aren't a problem for a home user that just wants to play games and get shit done while having a stable GUI. Then we have Qt and GTK. Where the GTK project was also taken over and ruined on purpose despite Gnome/GTK v2 being great software. Which was originally started by the community so we wouldn't be tied to Qt's licensing.

Like I said before; There are spooks everywhere. EEE in full effect. The Linux desktop today is in much worse shape than it was in 2004. It's certainly much less usable for the average person.

If someone has already pwn'd the system to the point where you're worried about them seeing other applications running the wayland security theater is not going to help you in the first place.

>>107902175
>If someone has already pwn'd the system to the point where you're worried about them seeing other applications running the wayland security theater is not going to help you in the first place.
(cont.)

The main valid security issue for this would be the web browser engines running on the local system allowing rouge javascripts (and related cancer) seeing other stuff running on your desktop. Well, who's fault is that?

In the 90s-mid 2000s the web browser wasn't this massive security hole by design. Nor were the web based specifications. The web was never designed to be this SaaS cancer where everything is LARPing as a local application. It was intended to be a protocol where you requested an HTML page (with a style sheet later on). A web server would generate a page for you and send it to you. You'd read it. No issue at all here with it being able to exploit your system. As long as you weren't running Microsoft's ActiveX. Even early uses of javascript like AJAX weren't a security exploit waiting to happen since all it was doing was fetching content dynamically in the background and serving it to you without having to reload the entire page. AJAX was considered an ugly hack until something better came along.

That something better wasn't supposed to be running over the http protocol either. It was supposed to be a new protocol. Where we could code applications that interacted with remote servers. Where data would be sent over the wire to the end user and used by an application running locally.

That was sane development and why different stuff ran over different protocols for decades before this web-based garbage came along thanks to Google. But google bought off the W3C and now we no longer have real web standards.

They shove everything over http because it's easy to centralize and spy on what the end user is doing. The web was intended to be a global library of information not for all this crap we're using it for now.

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>>107902257
(cont.)


Even with the modern browsers the proper solution wasn't to ruin the desktop. Instead, you simply run them in a jail/chroot/some kind of container. Give it its own X server that can interact with the main X server running on that system so you get basic stuff like copy/paste that works. This is much better security than what something like wayland offers. Since you can keep them separated from each other for real and sandboxed. On FreeBSD the jails were the best option and jails were around for decades before crap like all these modern container formats like Docker came on to the scene.

Or you go the OpenBSD route with pledge/unveil. OpenBSD is the only OS in current use where you can safely run a browser. If any rouge script tries to do something it isn't supposed to it crashes and dumps core. That's running with no container on an X server too. It's easy enough to do it if you give a fuck about the end users for real and your kernel's security aspects aren't coming directly from the NSA. The situation on Linux in this respect is really dire.

The fact that we let the web browsers get this out of control is really the issue. I haven't even touched on what they've done to the web itself since the late 2000s here. What with the https hard requirement for everything, shit like cloudflare and other MitM services being required if you don't want to get ddos'd off the web and the fact that only a handful of spook companies are the ones allowed to issue valid certs to people running websites now.

It's like social media. Everything is centralized now for spying/ad purposes. When we had email, usenet, and all the rest back in the 1970s-1980s. We could have improved and extended protocols like that and they could have never been censored or monitored at this level. But then it would make it much harder for 9,000-eye countries to spy on everyone and control the flow of information over the internet.

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>>107902346
>When we had email, usenet, and all the rest back in the 1970s-1980s.
While I'm effort posting about this I might as well mention two things close to my heart: Fidonet and old school web forums.

I put a lot of work into web forums back in the day and I was an avid user of Fidonet. You could call these early "social networks" along with USENET. Let's look at what they did to kill them off.

>Fidonet
A lot of people showed up in the mid-90s to murder this store-and-forward protocol. It's still active today and it's one of the few ways you can talk to people in places like North Korea. I know plenty of people forced to use it today to get real information because the web is so censored in their countries. These are college professors, doctors and people like that. Fidonet can run over any kind of link even very low bandwidth/high latency links like HAM radio and phone lines. Yet no one tries to improve it (or make something new based on this concept) because that obviously wouldn't be good for the people spying on us.

>USENET
It was killed off in the late 2000s by the US Congress. Who demanded all ISPs stop giving users free access because of fear mongering about pizza being on it. I encourage you to look into that if you get the time. Again, impossible to really censor or delete anything once it's on the network. The network has also been centralized in recent years by a handful of companies and if you go looking into them you'll find the same people behind the scenes: spooks everywhere.

>>107902548
(cont.)

>Web forums
These were killed off by Google in the mid-late 2000s through the adsense program. They bought off all the admins running large forums with ad money. People were making $10k+ a month sometimes off ads. But embedding adsense into your forum's code allowed google to spy on all your users and build profiles on them. Then they started kicking people out of the ad program unless they censored discussion. Lots of people gave up running forums because of this when the ad money stopped coming in. I knew plenty of people that quit their jobs in the early-mid 2000s to run forums full time. People were buying and selling them for thousands of dollars on places like webhostingtalk in those days. They didn't care one bit about google being able to spy on their users they just wanted the paycheck much like modern youtubers who all self-censor to stay in google's good graces.

Well in the late 2000s they finally screwed all these sell-outs over for good. First they started to derank them from search results. Claiming they were abusing google's search engine through SEO despite letting large media companies do the same thing without punishing them at all.

After that they started to derank forums all together. Today you can't even get search results from for old forum posts even if you add "forum" or "site:forumurl.tld" to your search query.

They deranked all these forums while promoting websites like major social networks, reddit and all the usual cancer like quora instead.

What I'm saying is forums did not die organically. They were killed off on purpose by hiding them from search results. It was done because they wanted to spy on end users and build better profiles on them by herding them into services they controlled instead of sending them to independent websites. Why pay all that ad money out every month to buy off admins to allow you to spy on their users when you can just run your own website and gather even more data about them?

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The posts above may seem unrelated but here is my greater point. The centralization we saw happen to the web from the mid-2000s and really ramp up through the 2010s is what's happening to Linux distros now.

You have thousands of different distros and claiming to be in-fighting. But if you look beyond the surface you will see the same thing happening to them now that we saw with the web back then.

At their core they're all the same. Same libc, same kernel, same "base system" comprised of the same software all coming from spook sources. Software designed to spy on the end users as much as possible. All coming from the same handful of sources; IBM, Microsoft, Google, Amazon, Microsoft and all the other front companies for the spook community. We even see several patches coming directly from the NSA itself without shame. End users are not aware of what's going on because they do not understand what's happening behind the scenes.

The users feel like they're gaining security, privacy and sticking it to the man. When in reality the same man is in charge of this new OS they're switching to. Meanwhile, all the old timers are either getting very depressed and quitting because they see the writing on the wall or they're checked out all together. Or they've fully sold out for cash (see: Linus, Stallman and many others) because they're getting millions of dollars a year to keep their mouths shut and play along. We have young people the "fucking love FOSS" getting tricked into thinking they're making a difference in the world. All while relying on a software stack that's worse than old M$ ever was and using programming languages being promoted by spooks.

Of course, UNIX was a spook creation to start with along with the internet as a whole. But at least for a short time there was hope that maybe we could take it from them and do something positive with it. But all of that work has been thrown out the window now.

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I think I will move to NetBSD

>>107902762
>Or they've fully sold out for cash (see: Linus, Stallman and many others)
>Stallman
Can you elaborate on that?
Anyways, thanks effortposter-kun, this zoomer right here learnt a lot today :^)

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>>107901726
>sees one person not agreeing with using C in one (1) situation where the overwhelming consensus is that compiled languages are woefully inadequate
>immediately starts rambling about Rust

>>107902859
>Can you elaborate on that?
MIT is a spook school anon. So is Berkeley and most of the other major tech schools in the west. In fact, Berkeley is the last name of a royal family that has been doing shady stuff for hundreds (probably thousands) of years. Check out the peerage sometime. It's a family tree/list of royal families. You'll find they've been intermarrying for a long time.

Spooks are not a modern creation that started after WW2. They've been around as long as we've had a military (all of human history). Before the CIA there was the OSS. Before the OSS there was the office of naval intelligence. That's just in America. Most spook operations were run out of the Navys of major nations because obviously you'd want your Navy that projects your power all over the world to have a spying organization, right?

Stallman in particular is said not to have written a piece of code or even touched a keyboard for decades now due to health reasons. He didn't even produce emacs despite getting credit for it. He didn't write the GPL license either. Yet he's held a cushy job at the MIT for decades now getting paid a huge yearly salary for producing nothing of value and giving a talk now and again where he says nothing of value. Don't you find that strange?

Don't you also find it strange that despite MIT and Berkeley schools being very close and working so closely together for decades they started a holy war (GPL vs. BSD) that has divided the FOSS community since before the web was a thing? Typical divide and conquer tactics we see everywhere in life. Just like the false right/left divide in politics and in most other aspects of life.

There is a phrase for the above: Ordo ab Chao. Look up what it means.

>>107902867
>spook trying to derail and bait me into a argument
Not falling for it. Hire better agents. You faggots never ague in good faith so it's the last (you) you're getting out of me.

I do encourage any lurker to read the guide to forum spies though.

>>107902809
As noted above: Moving to BSD is not going to really solve any of your problems despite the fact that I'm personally using it myself. Despite it coming out of a spook school (the license and the original code it forked from) the various projects are run by a lot of good people. I have no reason to suspect Theo at the moment but then again I haven't looked too deeply into his past. So who knows. Also even clueless people can contribute to things that aren't in everyone's best interest while being clueless about it.

At the end of the day Theo is a good coder though and I respect a lot of the decisions he's made over the years. Just like I respect a lot of people that work on NetBSD. They've done some good work. Rump kernels are very interesting for example and offering a alternative to what's been happening in mainstream Linux over the years is admirable. NetBSD in particular has done a lot of great work keeping older hardware alive and keeping things like their Linux emulator for binaries working. It's admirable.

But here is the thing. I'll use OpenBSD as an example here. I run it on my laptop (well one of them, but it's my main laptop for writing). In OpenBSD you get a solid kernel and a leader that cares about security and a community of skilled people working with him to provide something really great. The documentation is great and so is the code.

However, they have to support modern hardware. On my laptop that means supporting the graphics card. Which is a modern-ish AMD chipset. To do this they had to port over the drm drivers from Linux. Well, this driver is comprised of more code than the entire rest of the system: kernel, base system and everything including the 200 or so ports I run on that machine. All this code just to make the graphics work. They can only port over what they have to work with.

There lies the problem. We don't really have control over the hardware or the software. No matter who is in charge nothing will change that fact.

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>>107895880
>eliminating the python dependency required by portage
Has been done already, by alternative package managers, and it's a good idea.
>(and hopefully bash too)
Terrible idea, because all existing ebuilds become unusable.
>Gentoo has been screwed up so badly
I'm pretty sure that some core Gentoo devs don't actually use Gentoo.
Many package maintainers don't even bother building packages after changing the ebuilds, let alone test them or use them daily.
I was just reading that the x11-drivers/nvidia-drivers maintainer no longer uses Nvidia cards, so he can't test anything.

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>>107902955
>>spook trying to derail and bait me into a argument
>Not falling for it. Hire better agents.

>>107895953
>am i missing something?
Dependency resolution, for which programmers worth their salt use SAT solvers: https://research.swtch.com/version-sat

>>107902955
>There is a phrase for the above: Ordo ab Chao. Look up what it means.
Oh and please don't take google or whatever AI answer you get at face value. I assure you this phrase is much older than the 1800s and was being widely used before whatever sekrit society they're giving credit for creating it (freemasons or scottish rite would be my guess on what google/AI returns, let me know if I'm correct).

It is a LATIN phrase after all, isn't it? That means it must be pretty damn old. You'll find a lot of Latin in your day-to-day life if you bother looking for it. Check out what the Latin phrases on your $1 bill mean sometime.

These organizations are very very old. They pre-date that Jesus guy they claim walked the Earth as an example. Just like a lot of the Gods from Greek/Roman/whatever times are much older than those societies that are credited for creating them. If you bother to study history (and studying history is really hard since the victors write it) you'll see the same "Gods" being mentioned over and over again by different names through various societies. They're still worshiped today by lots of people that do not talk about these facts openly.

>>107903040
>I'm pretty sure that some core Gentoo devs don't actually use Gentoo.
Yes this is a common problem in a lot of OSs. FreeBSD being a prime example. Just go to a convention and witness all the "lead devs" typing away on their Apple laptops.
>Terrible idea, because all existing ebuilds become unusable.
The problem is the ebuilds themselves. Porting them to use portable shell scripting should be a priority. Not forcing everyone to continue relying on bash.

After all, ebuilds are just exposing compile time options and make. They are not even required to build a system from source with custom compile time flags. Sourcemage for example has been allowing the same thing for years without all these hard dependencies.

Portage is just a worse version of the BSD's ports at the end of the day.

>>107902955
>Berkeley is the last name of a royal family that has been doing shady stuff for hundreds (probably thousands) of years. Check out the peerage sometime. It's a family tree/list of royal families. You'll find they've been intermarrying for a long time.
>Edward II: he is popularly believed to have been murdered at Berkeley Castle by having a red-hot poker thrust into his bowels.
>Intermarriage between the House of Plantagenet, Bohun family, House of Tudor, the Stuarts and the FitzGeralds
>FitzGeralds
>Linked to the Kennedys
>Bohun Family, connected to the House of Tudor, House of Stuart, and the House of Windsor
What the fuck
>He didn't even produce emacs despite getting credit for it. He didn't write the GPL license either. Yet he's held a cushy job at the MIT for decades now getting paid a huge yearly salary for producing nothing of value and giving a talk now and again where he says nothing of value.
>Don't you also find it strange that despite MIT and Berkeley schools being very close and working so closely together for decades they started a holy war (GPL vs. BSD) that has divided the FOSS community since before the web was a thing? Typical divide and conquer tactics we see everywhere in life. Just like the false right/left divide in politics and in most other aspects of life.
Hmmm, quite interesting indeed.
Thanks, finally a serious reply on /g/ :^)

>>107903133
>Portage is just a worse version of the BSD's ports at the end of the day.
I should have added: Portage does provide some value by allowing you to configure compile time options in one place and using stuff like package.provided. It isn't totally useless. But the fact that dependency resolution is so slow due to python and the root shell is forced into being bash are huge issues no matter how much anyone tries to justify it due to legacy cruft.

The old ebuilds aren't even as useful as most people think. Since the current maintainers keep making unneeded (and frankly bad) changes to the EAPI. Which requires that you have to manually edit old ebuilds every few months-years anyway to keep up with the constantly changing requirements. Those of us maintaining local overlays have been forced to sink hours and hours into editing our ebuilds for no reason other than the current maintainers keep changing things for no good reason.

It wasn't that long ago (2020 or so) when half my packages on my system weren't simply ebuilds adding and modifying user accounts for no reason for example. Modern Gentoo is really getting out of control when it comes to things like that. There is really no good reason for it other than the current guy in charge not having any idea wtf he's doing (or more likely being actively malicious).

On my BSD boxes I've been easily able to maintain the same level of customization that USE flags on Gentoo give me without all these issues. Since the ports trees and build system were better designed in the first place and they do not rely on stuff like bash, python or an ever changing EAPI.

>>107903070
The initial posts made me a bit wary about the state of the Gentoo community but now I'd still use Gentoo.
It's either Gentoo of NixOS for me as soon as I get a new Linux device. I really like customizing builds.

>Google started using it as a base for ChromeOS. You're just beta testing for them at this point.
Gentoo has support from Big Tech now? Great! Nobody wants abandonware trash.

>>107903207
Serves you right for being a massive cuck and not writing your own package manager and relying on gentrrons. With todays tools running your own distro is very easy

>>107903027
I'll concede most of what you have said so far and assume the usual suspects hijacked the Linux environment through Red Hat and whatnot, which I can believe, but why would they
1. Leave the BSDs alone since they're notable for server usage
2. Go through all that effort when shit like the Intel Management Engine guarantees you're pwned from the get go

>>107903196
>What the fuck
I would link you to a collection of papers on this type of stuff that would blow your mind. Sadly, if I did I'd eat a 2 week ban instantly. I can't even mention the author here by name.

It isn't just here either. It's every major website on the web these days. The guy has done deep dives on this subject for the past 30-odd years and publishes multiple papers about it every month. In addition to the work he does on other topics like hard science. He's the most censored person I know of on the internet.

All I can do is encourage you to try to seek it out for yourself. As this is kind of off topic. Well not totally because that family literally runs that tech school (go look at who founded MIT while you're at it). But this is more about Gentoo/Linux so I won't say any more about it here.

Odd how the spook spam picked up the moment it was mentioned though isn't it? Just proof they actively get alerted when certain keywords are posted anywhere on the web :^). Don't feed them.

>>107903250
They haven't left the BSDs alone. As for your second question. They like having control at multiple levels. If people were creating software that actually respected the users at some point a lot of users would start asking hard questions about why the hardware is so pwned. Don't you think?

>>107903237
>writing your own package manager and relying on gentrrons. With todays tools running your own distro is very easy
What does this entail?
I can imagine if you are experienced enough that you've gone through a Linux from Scratch install you might know a few things.

Would you really write a new package manager from scratch though?

>>107902955
>>107903027
>>107903027
>>107903133
>>107903275
As completely depressing this whole topic of Linux becoming shit is, the stuff you're writing is actually really interesting, and I'm glad I opened /g/ today to read this. I have archived this thread, just in case. Thanks for sharing.

>>107903275
I'll risk a ban myself. I might be wrong, but is it M-les .Mathis?

>>107903307
Don't feed the spooks. But I'll answer you question.

It's easy to write a package manager. You don't even need a package manager. If you know how to use make+make install you can run whatever you want on any UNIX-like kernel easily. That was how it was done for years by everyone before the 90s. You'd grab a tarball, run make then go on with your life.

Package managers were simply created to help manage dependencies. Since by the 90s a lot of software projects for POSIX systems started relying on more than a handful of other software in userspace. Or you'd have software A wanting version 1.2 of a dependency while project B wanted version 1.3. Users also started wanting to use more software than they did before since HDDs allowed you to store more data on a local system and people were using home computers instead of mainframes that were being managed by someone else.

Writing a package manager is like CS 101 stuff. Actually, it's probably considered below that level in a proper CS course. A code monkey can write a package manager in a weekend.

But there is really no point in doing it. If you're good you can make due fine with just tarballs+make. If you want a package manager then you're better off using an existing one because the real value in the package manager is the community around it. Since they can help you maintain a large collection of packages and this helps to spread the time/effort burden between all the users instead of everyone having to maintain them on their own. Why would you maintain a package manager just for yourself? You'd be better off just using tarballs+make because it'd be less of a pain once you'd initially setup the system.

I personally use pkgsrc. Since it has a large community behind it. Lets me build from source if I want but the community also provides binaries that I can trust if I want those.

But again you shouldn't feed the spook trolls. They only want to derail discussion here.

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>>107903384
Could be. If you have an IP to burn sometime check out what happens if you mention that name or link to that particular website here. You won't even have to wait for someone to notice. Your post will never see the light of day because I assume it's in the same list of pizza sites that get auto-bopped.

>>107903307
plenty of people write their own package manager, look at kiss (posix shell), tin can linux (rust iirc) and all the other small one guy distros out there. You don't need bloated ebuilds and use flags when you're the one packaging everything. repology makes it a breeze to track outdated packages and so on.

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>>107903511
>Error: Your post contained banned text.
FUCKING LMAO

>>107903411
>Don't feed the spooks.
You have schizophrenia.

>You don't even need a package manager.
>grab a tarball, run make then go on with your life
Yes, this is the kind of bad advice one would expect from a schizo.

>just write your own package manager in a weekend
No.

>If you're good you can make due fine with just tarballs+make
This is a lie, but if you have autism, schizophrenia, and no job, it is possible to lie to yourself with crap like this.

You should start taking niacinamide (vitamin B3) right now. It's one of the only things that can help your brain.

>>107903511
>>107903569

>>107903275
>Odd how the spook spam picked up the moment it was mentioned though isn't it? Just proof they actively get alerted when certain keywords are posted anywhere on the web :^).
I guess you were right, this one right here >>107903597

>>107903411
retard, the value of a good package manager is that you don'tjust make install like tard as root on your system, keep track of all the files that the package installed and can remove the package with a simple command, keep track of dependencies, can set custom build environment for your package, don't leave dangling trash behind on updates. You only have to package something once, then it's a simple package build/install instead of redoing the same shit over and over on updates. Also have fun manually tracking updates with that all(make retardation, it's like doing calculs with pen and paper when you have access to a calculator

>>107903624
Concession accepted. You were officially blown the fuck out right here: >>107903597

You have no arguments.
This is why you hide behind
>muh spooks!!!

Oh the guy mentioned is a conspiracy lunatic and antisemtic lmao

>>107901936
can you give actual examples of malicious code in say systemd or any other red hat software you'd care to dissect?
>>107903511
https://milesmathis.com/index.html

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>>107903624
They really can't help themselves can they? Notice how they comes in groups and get so angry. All while trying to put on this air of authority and claiming everyone else is retarded.

They always have the same goals:
>derail discussion
>attack the messenger
>bury the information

You might enjoy this: https://cryptome.org/2012/07/gent-forum-spies.htm

We should really not discuss this much further though. Eventually, they'll use the "off topic" discussion to ban everyone to silence them. I won't be surprised to see this reply doesn't make it through. Which is why I don't use this board as often as I did in the past (been here a long time off and on. Got the link on IRC a long time ago because I got access to a certain goon haunt without paying the ten bux thanks to my day job in those days).

They're pretty angry with me in particular for various reasons. Mostly because I turned them down when they offered me a job a long time ago. Every now and again they come around and try to recruit me again but I think they've given up on it all together now. So now they just prefer to harass my family and I through various methods.

It was good talking to you anon. If you'd like to continue discussing the state of Gentoo or UNIX-like OSs in general I'm happy to keep talking about that.

Fun fact: They can't post copyrighted material. Since they operate under rules laid out in the Department of Defense Interactive Internet Activities program. Now you know why the frog and wojak spam picked up so heavily and why they rage about people that post anime and Milhouse.

>>107892690
boy oh boy did you get more than you asked for

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>>107903730
>They can't post copyrighted material.
>they rage about people that post anime
What now?

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>>107903730
>You might enjoy this: https://cryptome.org/2012/07/gent-forum-spies.htm
Thanks, it's a good read: Rule 5 in full effect >>107903673 , Rule 4: >>107903646 (He even mistook me for you)
>It was good talking to you anon. If you'd like to continue discussing the state of Gentoo or UNIX-like OSs in general I'm happy to keep talking about that.
I'm pretty interested in OpenBSD, but I see that modern drivers get rejected all the time, even if the FreeBSD/NetBSD people ported them successfully, mainly rtw89 and related rtw drivers, why's that? Security problems?
>Fun fact: They can't post copyrighted material
I'll post a random pic :^)

>>107903708
>can you give actual examples of malicious code in say systemd or any other red hat software you'd care to dissect?
I don't care to go over all of this for the 9,000th time. But I'll link you to an old blog post about this from the guy that created musl: https://ewontfix.com/14/

There are far too many bugs and examples of bad design in the various IBM/Red Hat software that makes up lower userspace in Linux to cover. But I'll try to give you an over all example. I've mentioned a few already in prior posts.

PID1 is the most important thing running on any UNIX-like OS after the kernel itself. If PID1 crashes it takes the entire system down (it's as bad as kernel panic). All PID1 should be doing is reaping zombie processes and spawning new processes. PID1 should have as little code as possible in other words and it should be audited often.

IBM went the other way with PID1 (systemd). Instead of making it small, compact and easy to audit they placed millions of lines of code within it and had it spawn many unrelated processes that also run as root at all times (logind) which also comprise thousands-millions of lines of hard to audit code.

In other words they took full advantage of PID1 being the most important process running on your system. Then they used their influence and political maneuvering in various distros (Debian was their first big target) to push systemd hard and started making things rely on it with a hard dependency. In Gentoo (and various other "non-systemd" distros) they gave people controlled op versions of the same thing. You may be running OpenRC or runit for example but it's still spawning every other process from the systemd project as root (e.g. logind) which are required by projects widely used (e.g. KDE, Gnome).

Compare this to something like s6. Where the init itself is _very_ small and easy to audit and the processes it spawns for things like services are also very small and do not require running as root.

>>107903948
So with s6 (and other similar small init systems/service managers) you will have a more stable and by nature more secure system by default. Since it's both easy to audit and replace pieces of the entire service manager with whatever you desire. You will not end up with bugs like
>username 0day gives you root on any system
and
>A STOPPED JOB IS RUNNING!

It's an entirely different approach to software design. IBM's systemd wants to be a wrapper around the kernel and it wants everything else in userspace to depend directly upon it. s6 (and others) simply wants to do what an init is supposed to do: manage sub-processes, reap zombie processes and provide stability. Just compare how logging is done in both of them. In systemd you're forced to use binary log files and you can't swap them out for anything else. You can only re-direct the binary logs to txt logging. In s6 you can use any type of logging you want. In addition, with txt logs you can always get some useful information from logs if the system shits the bed for whatever reason. With IBM's logging you're forced to rely on their tool to read the binary log files and you can never be sure if corruption within them is real or just their own logger shitting the bed. corrupted txt logs still provide you with useful information because you can tell at a glance. With IBM's logging you can never be sure.

s6 can actually get logging up and running faster than any other logging system on UNIX OSs.

IBM also spread a lot of lies about how they've created useful features that are really part of the kernel or things we had before. For example, cgroups and "socket activation" are not unique to systemd. Cgroups are provided by the kernel and can be used with any init/service manager. Socket activation in systemd isn't even real. Same goes for starting up processes in parallel and many other things it claims it invented. Read the link above if you want to know more about that.

>>107903730
This really explains a lot, I remember when systemd was first introduced, there was spam everywhere about how it made boot times so fast, and you just had to switch because your computer booted so much faster. Anytime you mentioned anything besides boot times, they would jump your shit. There were threads all over the place. At the time I thought it was weird but it all makes sense now.

>>107903948
>>107904007
(cont.)

In short; IBM took advantage of the unique nature of PID1 to push vendor lock-in. Where s6 and just about all other init/service managers just wanted to give you a useful tool for start-up/shut-down/managing a running system.

Another thing about systemd/IBM is they gobbled up a bunch of existing projects on purpose (e.g. udev) to make it harder for non-IBM UNIX-like OSs to continue using existing software. Which is why we now have the situation we have with things like modern Gnome. Where porting it to say BSD or any non-systemd/logind distro becomes harder and harder with each passing month. Since we're not forced to patch around their garbage software or provide replacements for things most users didn't need/want. A good example of that would be projects like seatd, elogind, eudev and all the others. Where people were forced to fork or provide replacements for things from the IBM repo to continue using stuff like the two most popular DEs on UNIX-like OSs (KDE and Gnome). But it goes even further than that.

A lot of projects these days now claim they need things like dbus running or logind/udev to function. But if you compile them or fake that they're on the system with something like package.provided in Gentoo you'll quickly discover that most of them do not require them at all. For example, it's perfectly possible to use Firefox on systems that do not have dbus running. All it will do if you fake dbus is spam some error messages to console. Otherwise nothing else will break. This is why OSs like OpenBSD can still run Firefox perfectly fine. They simply fake that dbus is running (although you can run it if you want. User has that option in a sane OS/distro). I can give many other examples of this. Most every package claiming to need something from the IBM repo will work perfectly fine without it provided you compile it from source yourself. 9 times out of 10 it'll simply spam some error messages.

>>107904086
I've touched on this before but I'll re-state it. They push a lot of this crapware claiming it's more secure than what we were using for years before. Circa-2004 we had modern desktops running GTK/Gnome 2.x that do everything these modern systemd+wayland+dbus+whatever distros are doing today. They were perfectly fine for 99% of users since 99% of users own their own workstation/laptop and are the only person using it. They were also perfectly secure. Sure there are always bugs and CVEs happen. But in general things were fixed quickly and these distros in that era were certainly much better than say Windows XP as an example.

What IBM did was start pushing standards for the "Linux desktop" through their front organizations like FreeDesktop. They pushed a bunch of broken standards and would change requirements of them often. Forcing FOSS developers to constantly play catch-up. While they were doing that they also took over existing projects like X11 and GTK. Usually, kicking out the existing developers along the way and replacing them with their own. Then after they'd seized control they'd start to ruin them from the inside out, stop accepting PRs from outsiders/anonymous contributors and most importantly breaking portability with other UNIX-like OSs. This resulted in tons of needless work having to be done by everyone. Which wasted tons of time and effort. Then they'd regularly break existing projects whenever they could. Which is how we went from having something stable with GTK v2.x and getting roped into using GTK3.x+. Lots of people got so fed up they gave up on GTK all together. Which pushed them right back to using Qt which people were trying to avoid in the first place. Which is why we developed GTK in the first place.

Embrace, extend, and extinguish.

>>107904146

They also hired a bunch of formally "doing it for free" people through front companies. Spook front companies (all big tech companies are spook companies). So now you had a lot of people with a vested interest into going along with things they knew were bad because they were getting paid to do FOSS as a day-job. They threw tons of money behind this. All of it coming directly from spook companies like IBM, Microsoft, and all the others I've mentioned before.

Red Hat itself openly admits their biggest customer is the US Department of Defense (aka the military). They had an endless supply of money to throw around because all of that money was coming directly from the US tax payer. They had an interest in doing this because their goal was not only seizing control over all the software running all the servers and spook workstations but also so they could charge money to other companies through support contracts. They of course threw a lot of money at kernel hackers as well. Which is how Linus ended up making millions of dollars a year to sit on his ass and read emails. I'm sure you've noticed he's become far less vocal and eager to accept horrible PRs as of late. Especially after getting sent to re-education camp about a decade ago now (man time flies).

Whenever they ran into someone in a position of power they couldn't buy off they did the same thing. First they'd try to kick them out of their own projects through underhanded methods like what we've seen in the last decade with the push for Codes of Conduct enforcement in FOSS projects. If that failed they simply murdered them. Which is why people like Ian Murdock "anhero'd" despite screaming at the top of his lungs for weeks before he "anhero'd" that he was not suicidal, that the local police in his area was stalking him and detained him for no legal reason. He wasn't the only one. A lot of people "anhero'd" around that time but Ian is the most famous.

>>107904207
Do you have anything to say about SELinux? I have a feeling it's similar to systemd.

>>107904207
Man this is getting long sorry.

You'll see a lot of the same lies parroted by the people behind projects like systemd. I don't want to cover them all in detail here this have been covered over 9,000 times before. But I'll touch on one that comes to mind.

They'll claim all the unrelated projects tied tightly to systemd are somehow "modular". When we all know it's a bold faced lie. They are tightly bound together and are impossible to use separately without doing a ton of hacking. Which is why we had projects like eudev and elogind in Gentoo a few years back which was eventually ditched all together after a few years with the lie that no one wanted to maintain them any longer. Really these type of forks were just projects to waste everyone's time. They didn't care if you used a forked version. They knew they'd be impossible to maintain long term and they would prevent people from writing real replacements.

Then you have them lying openly all of the time. They'll claim stuff like
>If you dislike the project so much you should fork it
>Where is your code? Why don't you contribute if you think the project is bad?
Knowing full well that the entire thing is a non-starter and it'd be useless to do so in the first place.

When they forced systemd into Debian for example they subverted the political process inside the project like they did with Gentoo. They tried to paint the debate as a false choice between upstart and systemd. Claiming the old ways to do init were somehow bad despite the fact they'd worked perfectly fine for decades. They claim shell scripts are "hacky" and unit files are better. When shell scripting had been widely used and is still used in UNIX-like OSs like all of the BSDs. They're fine, they're secure, they're not any slower than systemd's unit files and they are much easier to maintain.

>>107904267
It's NSA spookware and it provides you with no real security at all. Avoid at all costs. If you want to run a server and a hardened kernel you're better off using something like OpenBSD.

>>107904284
(cont.)

The real reason they wanted the old way gone is because it meant every last server running Linux was unique. Which meant they had to invest more time into cracking into them. With systemd and all distros being unified at PID1 you can write/use 0day exploits that work globally. Every last system connected to the internet is running the same scripts at the lower levels of userspace. Giving you easy access into any system you want.

An anon before said something about
>why would they do this if they have Intel ME backdoor?
Well here is why. First off al they really dislike using the hardware backdoors if they can avoid it. There would be a major outcry if it was used in a massive pwn and the public found out about it. They prefer to keep those hardware level backdoors for high value targets. Just like they really hate talking about the backdoor they have at the hardware level into everyone's cell phone due to the FCC mandated baseband chip. Instead it's much easier to pwn a system at PID1. You get everything you need and plausible deniability. You can also just say
>whoops we had a bug. Sorry about that here is the patch
Of course, there are 1,000 other bugs marked "WONTFIX" they can use for the next time they need to use one. Rinse and repeat. Can do it over and over again. If your hardware level backdoor is exposed in such a way suddenly you have major scandal and maybe you're on the hook for buying all the normalfags new hardware should they join together for a class action lawsuit or something.

But it's more than that. The DoD can order CPUs with those backdoors turned off/disabled. So can other countries I'm sure. Maybe you want to pwn a system like that. What do you do then? You use your 0day for the kernel or PID1.

>>107904334
(cont.)

I'll give you another example of how they operate. Let's talk about zstd compression which came out of yet another spook front company facebook.

This was released years back as a replacement for the community developed xz compression algo. Over night it was everywhere. In the kernel and almost every distro (Arch, Debian, Gentoo and all the others) switched over to it as the new default over night. There were claims it was better than xz compression for various reasons. Most of them were not true. Mostly that it was faster and produced consistent results on multi-core systems. But xz compression was fine and it does the same thing now.

What do we see shortly after zstd became the new default everywhere? We get this massive propaganda push from every tech news outlet about a security bug in xz that never even made it into the repos of most Linux distros. Further more, IT DIDN'T EVEN WORK ON NON-SYSTEMD DISTROS.

But thanks to that fear mongering people now claim it's bad and should no longer be used for anything. It will certainly never be the default for any big distro ever again.

But then we go deeper; Where is zstd being widely used? Well we see it where you'd expect a compression algo to be used: real time compression of RAM, in the kernel and in projects like ZFS. Projects which are tied closely with encryption algos since people want to use encryption on their storage devices. So now we have yet another piece of spook software being used in all parts of the Linux software stack. If you don't want to use it too bad. You have to compile your entire system from source if you don't want to use the zstd default and this is not only a major pain in the ass it also means you can no longer rely on the rest of the community around whatever distro you use to help you maintain your own system. Now you're at the mercy of spookware for lots of things. Like verifying the contents of the binary you want to install from your package manager.

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>>107904391
One final note about xz compression and it being replaced by zstd. The person that submitted those PRs for xz came out of nowhere and he's a ghost on paper. So this also destroyed trust in anonymous maintainers and the code they submit to FOSS projects.

What are we seeing lately in the FOSS word? We're seeing major projects no longer accepting code from a submitter without them handing over their full dox. It destroyed public trust in people that want to contribute without handing over their full dox. You can no longer send patches to most projects like the kernel or things in userspace without everyone knowing your real name. Long gone are the days where the code itself was all that mattered. Now you have to be willing to put your real name out there. This is a huge change from how things were being done for decades in the FOSS world. Where the only thing that mattered was the code you sent in and you could build up a reputation by sending in good patches from an anonymous email address using a nick name. In other words; it destroyed trust within the community.

Then we have the whole development for most projects moving over to things like github where your dox is required if you want to be taken seriously. Even FOSS projects maintaining their own git instances became highly restrictive in this respect. You also can't use mailing lists anymore without an email address from an "approved" email provider. Long gone are the days when you could submit work from a throw-away email address. Or use multiple screen names/emails for different projects you worked on anonymously.

Everything needs your full dox now. What do we see on places like LKML happening at the same time? Long time contributors being banned from sending patches to the project due to their country of origin or because they said something on the mailing list 20+ years ago that now violates all these stupid "codes of conduct".

I could go on but I think you get the point.

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>>107903941
>I'm pretty interested in OpenBSD, but I see that modern drivers get rejected all the time, even if the FreeBSD/NetBSD people ported them successfully, mainly rtw89 and related rtw drivers, why's that? Security problems?

With OpenBSD it mainly boils down to one of these things:
>Security issue
>Developers working on the project do not own the hardware and therefor are unable to test it themselves
For this one if you donate hardware they're usually happy to port things over. Even more so if you're willing to help with porting the driver yourself.

The final reason something might be rejected from OpenBSD is typically the following. If something is unable to be included within the base system because it would somehow break support for existing platforms being supported it's a no-go.

Last but not least, licensing issues. But this driver seems to be dual licensed already so right now it seems like it falls into the
>no developer owns the hardware and has interest

See this discussion about it on the mailing list(s): https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-misc&m=163734223830612&w=2

If you donate some hardware (and maybe some money) perhaps you could get a developer to port it for you. Better yet. Do it yourself and submit it to the mailing list. People are more than willing to help new developers and get them up to speed.

Another important note about OpenBSD with wifi drivers in particular; In OpenBSD wifi drivers are actually sane and work through ifconfig like everything else. We do not use stuff like wpa_supplicant at all. You can easily connect to wireless networks using ifconfig like all UNIX systems did before all this modern crap like wpa_supplicant came along.

FreeBSD can use all Linux drivers for hardware through the Linux bin emulator and they chose to port and rely on wpa_supplicant (along with a bunch of other Linux garbage). Therefor, they have support for more hardware but the over all system is less coherently designed (and less secure).

>>107904586
(cont.)

I should have also mentioned that code correctness is very important to the OpenBSD project. Which is why they're willing to remove code all of the time they feel hurts security or isn't being properly maintained. Hence why it does not support things like bluetooth, wine, linux binary emulation and a couple of other things. Although for the last one you can always run your linux-only stuff through vmm(4) (VM/Hypervisor).

The project is not opposed to bringing back support for bluetooth, wine, the linux emulator or anything else they might have removed over the years. However, someone must be willing to step up to maintain them, properly document them and they need to be secure to the level of the rest of the project. In addition you must be willing to pass the usual audits that happen frequently and stay on top of any reported security issues that may arise.

Again in general the OpenBSD developers are more than happy to port over drivers. Stuff gets ported over all of the time. Each new release gets support (or improved support) for lots of new hardware. I'm running it on a 5 year old thinkpad right now and support for everything is great. The gfx card is supported as well as it is in Linux and the wifi card in it just got some improvements in the last release.

Also OpenBSD -current is so stable that I've been running it for years now. I don't bother with point releases. If you run -current you get support for new drivers much faster instead of having to wait 6 months. But you need to read the mailing lists because things may break rarely if they need further testing on similar hardware the developer might not have had on hand (minor revisions in hardware all support by one driver may cause minor issues).

I typically update to new -current snapshots weekly. I've rarely had an issue with it and whenever I did they were usually fixed within hours. Of course you need to be proactive and report such things to the mailing list. We're friendly

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>>107904029
>This really explains a lot, I remember when systemd was first introduced, there was spam everywhere about how it made boot times so fast, and you just had to switch because your computer booted so much faster.

Yeah they pushed a lot lies like this. Boot time was one of the major ones. Of course boot times with systemd are actually slower than even sysvinit. They're slower than OpenRC, runit, s6, dinit and even busybox.

I didn't want to get too into the weeds but I guess I should have mentioned this in my original posts. But there is another key point about this whole boot time lie: How often is the average user rebooting their system anyway? Furthermore, do you care if it takes 2 seconds or 5 seconds?

Funny how they never talk about shut down times isn't it? Considering half of the time it can't even properly shut down :^).

The whole "socket activation" thing is one of my favorites. Where in reality it just spams bullshit while waiting on services to start up. So it really isn't doing anything it's claiming to do. If you read the usual blogs and posts from developers about the various issues with systemd you'll learn a lot. In addition to the one I've already linked I highly suggest reading this one:

https://judecnelson.blogspot.com/2014/09/systemd-biggest-fallacies.html

Do not expect anyone here to argue in good faith about systemd anymore. They're well aware of these break downs and blog posts but they're still parroting the same lies about it that they did back then.

https://judecnelson.blogspot.com/2014/09/systemd-biggest-fallacies.html

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Oh and before I take off to have supper with the family. I just wanted to say I really enjoy how the spooks gave up and decided to start sliding this thread instead. I posted a certain keyword and they stopped replying instantly. Always works. They really hate when you mention the DoD IIA program.

I also laughed really hard when I saw that a couple of weeks ago that they were forced to edit google search results for that particular keyword and create a wikipedia entry for it (which seems to have been removed in the last week). They _really_ hate when you talk about the Department of Defense Interactive Internet Activities program.

Take care lurkers. If this thread is still alive when I come back later (I doubt it will be by then. They'll keep trying to slide it I'm sure). I'll post a link to the DoD IIA .pdf file I saved locally. Since they nuked the only link to it in google search results that was hosted on the .gov website the only place I can find it now is on my local archives and catbox.moe where I uploaded it.

Among other things it proves they really started shitting up imageboards and other online communities hard in mid-late 2007. Which just happens to be the year when everyone used to claim the internet had gone to shit.

It's basically an outline/intro about the US military version of the same shill farms we know Mossad has been running for years. Really surprised anons didn't find it earlier despite it being around for so long. But they did a good job of keeping it quiet. They also out source a lot of that shilling to companies like Shareblue (no longer exists) which anons discovered a decade ago back during that whole gaymer saga+election drama. I'm guessing the DoD shills can't post copyrighted content but they can outsource to private companies that can (and probably have agreements with certain studios to allow it in return for payment). But another post for another time.

See you in space cowboys.

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I might forget so I'll just post it now before I go. Pic related proves they can't post copyrighted content. See the section about Intellectual Property. Also note what I underlined which proves they not only shit up popular imageboards they also control e-celebs. Which is why all of them with a large following have a "PR guy".

This is a .pdf file from a .gov website so take normal precautions when opening it.

PDF here: https://files.catbox.moe/bhpmsy.pdf

This program is a bit of a ghost. Other than this .pdf file announcing it in June 2007 there is no other mention of it on the web.

>>107896071
Why don't they just unify on a given version of Python for ebuilds? It's not like they need the latest features or whatever

why do you think /spooks/ are so hellbent on targetting gentoo? drawing the conclusion that gentoo is pozzed because a kernel maintainer works for a company that started in VA is . . . odd.

Then you keep bringing up the problems with systemd. OK, a lot of people don't like it. You can use another init system.

You also do not have to use portage, there are alternative package managers, including one written in C. You can also use whatever kernel you want.

You just seem buttmad that the gentoo community deleted your safe space for schizo posting.

>>107905147
Here is the issue with python targets: They have no control over what the package wants to pull in. They're forced to deal with whatever the source repo they're using has based their package on.

On stable it's less of an issue because stable is typically far behind bleeding edge. But most people don't want to run stable so they run unstable (~amd64 for most users). Otherwise you have to manually do a bunch of stuff in package.use to support common things the average user wants like up to date steam/proton/wine and stuff of that nature. Note that ~amd64/unstable is not "bleeding edge". It takes sometime before things filter down into unstable on Gentoo. If you want bleeding edge you have to manually tell portage to pull it with package.use.

On a typical system no matter what you decide to run (stable/unstable/bleeding edge) you'll end up with a hodgepodge of different packages all wanting different versions of python. Then if you want to run something older for whatever reason that still needs python 2.x you have to deal with that too. Leaving you with a large list of things in package.use you've set python targets for manually that you now have to manually manage.

Then one day you'll see a news item that the maintainers have bumped the python version required by portage and all hell can break loose. Hence the main issue with Portage/Gentoo: The package manager relies on python. If you manage to break python somehow or if portage somehow manages to screw it up due to you setting wrong targets manually in make.conf/package.use somewhere you could end up with a broken portage. Once portage is broken it's a big pain to get everything going correctly again. It doesn't happen very often but it does happen. Seen a lot of users that neglected to read the news item over the years and have done exactly that.

Which is why you typically update portage as a oneshot THEN deal with everything else on the system.

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What the hell happened here. I expected a welcome albeit seemingly innocent gentoo thread, which is already rare these days, and then it u-turned into an /x/ crossover. Even then, I read every single wall of text posted by who I assume to be you >>107904923, I mean, I can't picture that many people writing efforpoast after effortpoast although you lost me at some stuff I hope I'll be able to address before the thread is kill. In any case, what a blast, and kudos on finding that highly phosphorescent document.

>>107892690
To answer your query, OP, there were indeed a few posts years ago on this board mentioning plans to make a modern systemd-free distro with a package manager similar to portage. For anyone reading, you can probably find some of the posts if you throw in the right keywords in the archive, I won't bother but surely you can figure that out with a little effort after having read this thread. The project was moved to a certain altchan, mostly because /g/ sucks donkey dick, although it was a little better then cause you didn't have 3 AI jerk off generals up at a given time plus ten other threads either complaining about AI being useless or AI being the end of the world or the endless bickering between Linux/macOS/Windows users in which they engage in poorfag-tranny-indian RPS, and just you try making a BSD thread without some Luke Smith drone snooping in to post a tired image about muh cuck license. But I digress, you don't have to hear this shit from me you can just look around. In any case, I remember the discussion partially moving to a different chan, and while I never really developed for it, admittedly because at the time I was even more clueless to UNIX-inspired systems than I am now, I got to lurk and catch a little bit of the discussion, not that it matters now since said chan went belly up a few years ago.

>>107905505
I should have added that the switch from python 2.x -> python 3.x was obviously much worse than the situation now. But even minor version bumps of python are a pain.

This isn't really Gentoo's fault per se. It's a symptom of a larger problem within the modern FOSS community and python itself. Python is a huge mess and much like perl this is why no one with good sense used it as a hard requirement for anything within the "base system" of their distros/OS. Since even minor version bumps in python requires pulling in a whole host of bullshit to make sure everything works correctly with the new version when the version is bumped. As I said before this is why most everyone else using a similar system (mostly the BSD's ports collection) made damn sure to do all this with things that were already hard requirements for running low level software within their OS. So basically; C and whatever default shell they decided to base their system around.

Gentoo on the other hand decided to use python when they copied the ports system from BSD because it was a quick and dirty way to get a proof of concept going when it was originally written to bring a similar system to Linux. The issue is they never moved on from it.

These people attempting to bait keep claiming there is are existing package managers written in C that replicate what portage does. They're wrong. If they'd ever used portage and the Gentoo distro they'd know about all the drama surrounding the various attempts at writing a portage replacement in C and how none of them every replicated it correctly. The most popular one actually went out of its way to break a bunch of stuff, it's not compatible with existing ebuilds and there are good reasons why no one is using it. There was a ton of in-fighting caused by it due to the developers being frankly assholes. It's basically an entirely new distro/fork than a portage replacement.

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>>107905601
Ever heard the lemma that "Linus only cares about the kernel"? Good for him, because the userland for Linux is a nightmare.

Most users just don't really get to see this because they take the defaults in their distros and the red-hat shit for granted, but look an inch beneath the surface and you'll quickly realize that half of the modern userland for Linux is just hacks on top of hacks, with each moving part being made by a different guy, most of it implicitly assuming systemd or little shards of it. Fuck around with the audio stack to know what I mean, do it the hard way, get a minimalist distro and try getting it seamless for daily desktop usage without relying dbus or any piece of systemd in it. Also see >>107903948: I've definitely encountered this when trying to run a distro free of anything systemd related, it is really pushed by the people and the manuals that you use shards of it and shit like dbus all the time, and I also got Firefox running without it.

This stuff is obviously not impossible, but you seriously shouldn't have to conjure party tricks just to get basic shit working without systemd, and in Linux this is more or less becoming impossible. I don't know of any just werks distro out there that rejects systemd in its entirety nowadays, and at some point you start wondering if you're gonna need to reinvent the wheel just to get away from all this nonsense, but who the fuck has time for that? At some point the Linux context was a wilderness, but now there is in fact a red-hat shaped tower in the middle of the land and a bunch of people working with the assumption that said tower isn't going anywhere. Then you realize you can more or less avoid this problem with the BSDs, in which there is such a thing as a "canonical" userland so to say. I wouldn't be surprised if the anon who has been leading most of the discussion for this thread was among the people in the project who later realized this, cut their losses and just moved to BSD.

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̶v̶o̶i̶d̶
̶g̶e̶n̶t̶o̶o̶
̶n̶i̶x̶

welp I'm still going to keep testing guix, since I like lisp emacs and such.
>>107896448
>Nvidia card is no longer getting driver updates as of a few months ago on any OS.
Happened with truenas. I have a 1080. Can't update to latest version.

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>>107892690
>I also remember some anons working on a s6 + xenocara + portage based distro, any of you still out there?
>>107905601
I should have addressed this sooner but I honestly didn't want to. I am the original person that attempted to start this distro. I'll tell you why the project is still not under active development.

As mentioned above in my several posts the Gentoo community went to pot. Which made it not longer suitable to base another distro on top of. In 2019-2020 I thought it was still possible to fork but now it no longer is without too much effort. Might as well start from scratch at this point. Similarly, I decided I didn't want the hard dependency on python+bash. Latest versions of portage make unfucking it a non-starter.

Skarnet software is not as well documented as I hoped. I need to write a front-end for it. The existing main front-end 66 is badly out of date now. Thus it will require tons of work to do things the way I wanted. On top of that the guy running the project isn't very helpful if I'm being honest (nor are most of the people on the mailing list). They keep breaking compatibility with older versions so I don't want to build a front-end at this time knowing it'll all be broken again in 6 months - 1 year. Despite all that it's still the best init and I hope it'll eventually become stable enough to work on top of. I've tried to contribute to fixing that issue now before moving on to building a distro on top of it.

Porting Xenocara, doas and a couple of other OpenBSD tools will require more kernel hacking in Linux than I initially expected. The only people that are supposed to be working on this have dragged there feet over the last 2-3 years so again I'm on my own. I've started contributing to OpenBSD again instead for the moment.
(cont in next post).

>>107905748
(cont.)

I decided I wanted to base the distro on top of Arcan instead of Xenocara only. Again, this added a lot of work that I'd have to do on my own. Since Arcan only has one existing DE/WM built on top of it at the moment. Meaning again; I need to write a lot of stuff from scratch now that I didn't expect instead of being able to use Openbox+a bunch of other existing X11 based tools to build a proper DE/WM for the distro. All of this will also mean no support for Nvidia graphics cards sadly.

Skarnet's IPC system is not ready yet and I'll need to write something to translate existing dbus based software over to using the skarnet IPC and/or every thing we port would have to be hacked on to rip out dbus calls and convert them over that way. It'll probably have to be a mix of both if we want to support a lot of software (e.g. Libreoffice, Firefox, Chrome). As I said before you can get by with no dbus on the system at all. But I wanted to give users the option of having support for such things and to support older stuff that we don't have source code for.

A lot of software in the past couple of years has been even more tightly tied to polkit, PAM and things of that nature. Meaning we'd have to manually maintain older versions and/or do a lot of hacking to port them to the new distro if and when it's ready.

The cost of used hardware has really gone up in the last year or two. Which will make testing much harder. Someone also stole and tossed a bunch of hardware I did own in the dump while I was away from home dealing with family issues. So I need to replace it somehow to test things on older 32-bit x86 systems (among others).

The few people that did express interest in helping have gone AWOL in the last year or so. No idea what happened to them. They haven't logged into their accounts or responded to emails in a long time and I fear they're dead or something.

>>107905748
>>107905783
(cont.)

Various other misc. issues in my life came up. I got really busy with dealing with family stuff like taking care of my aging parents. The cost of food increased so much locally that I was forced to take on another job to afford feeding my family (grocery bills are over $1.5k a month now). Medical emergencies came up. I myself got sick and had to go to the ER twice just in the last 6 months and now I owe a lot of money to the hospital.

The increased costs due to all of the above wiped out the savings I had set aside for things like domain names, web hosting, build servers, paying people to help with development, affording new hardware to test things on etc. etc.

Last but not least; Every place where I did find people that expressed interest in helping has gone offline either due to ddos attacks or the forum/website/board vanished without warning. I do not have any way to contact a lot of those anons because we never exchanged contact information.

Also, I made the mistake of saying what I wanted to name this project on one small board. The next day someone had purchased every last variation of that domain name in most every TLD worth using. Someone actually spent what I estimate to be around $2k just to squat on the domain names to make me angry. These same people also started to follow me around when I attempted to get people interested in the project on alt-chans and small forums where I thought I could find people willing to help. They flood threads, piss off the mods and have even gone as far as to spam CP. This obviously makes the admin of such places angry and they prefer to shut down discussion rather than lose their domain or deal with law enforcement. Which I totally understand since I've also ran my own imageboards and forums in the past. Someone got really angry that someone was even thinking about doing a project like this and they seem hell bent on ensuring it never gets off the ground.

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But these posts right here (>>107903275 >>107902955 >>107903133) are the ones I couldn't really follow. I don't doubt there are actual people out there trying to get on your nerves in particular, it doesn't take being in the internet for long before you realize there are little communities scattered around with the only intent of harassing people online, and that they'll fucking do it for free, too. But you might be overblowing things a little. I doubt ALL the anons arguing in bad faith are spooks, it is even more plausible that most of them are retards, like most of the internet is, and that's fine, maybe they just got used to the tech they have and now feel the need to defend it tooth and claw. I once heard an adage that you shouldn't attribute to malice what can be just as easily attributed to stupidity, or laziness, or what have you. I think it is the case here.

I don't doubt you're a clever guy and that you know more about Unix shit than I hope to learn, and I'm sure you went through some shit that justifies trusting nobody, but cleverness doesn't make you immune to the occasional delusion. Kurt Gödel, which I'm sure you're familiar with, was one of the smartest mfs to ever live, but he starved to death following the murder of a friend because he refused to eat any meal not prepared by his wife (which was in the hospital) under the suspicion that someone was trying to poison him.

Given >>107904923, the non-sequitur konatas serve not only for my own delight but also as means of authentication

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ayo chat gpt, summarise this thread in a 60 second tiktok

>>107905748
>>107905783
>>107905832
Oh and finally. When Gentoo started going to pot I thought maybe we'd still be able to use Funtoo as a base. Several Funtoo developers expressed interest and I reached out to the guys at skarnet and Arcan who also seemed very interested in helping as well. But then the Funtoo project closed up over night without warning so that idea was a non-starter. The skarnet and Arcan guys are too busy with their own stuff at the moment. But they did tell me if I got things going they'd jump in and try to help when things were closer to being stable.

It's something I've tried to devote my limited time to but it's simply a little much for one person to take on at the moment due to all the problems mentioned above.

I've also gotten busier with existing projects I work on. Like working on OpenBSD and NetBSD. I maintain several ports for both and I contribute to the kernels of both. That's been taking up a lot of my free time.

On top of all that my main job was usually something I only did from March-October. But now the schedule has changed due to the nature of the work so now it's more like January-November.

Finally, some major changes happening in the Linux kernel as of late are very bad so it's looking like now we'd have to fork and maintain that on our own too. I've seriously given though about giving up on it all together and forking one of the BSD kernels instead. The situation with the Linux kernel is much different now than when I originally started working on this four or five years ago.

>>107905880
can you explain the common with the linux kernel i have very little knowledge of recent changes or anything whats so bad about it?? rust or ??

>>107905847
The first three posts you're quoting were more about showing that other anon the the tech industry in America were coming straight from the DoD/spooks. If you don't want to read about esoteric things that's fine. But please don't try to label me as some kind of crazy person just because I've taken my time to educate myself about those matter. As I said before they're off-topic for this discussion aside from proving that the two schools I mentioned were founded by members of royal families/bloodlines. If you want to go down that rabbit hole there is enough information in the replies (another anon posted the name of the person I mentioned that does a lot of research into this). It is worth your time I assure you. You shouldn't instantly dismiss some information about what's going on simply because they aren't coming right out on TV and telling you about it.

Some of us are simply "illuminated" and managed to do it on our own instead of having to join certain (for lack of a better word) fraternities and "social clubs". I was invited in to join them several times because I have family members that are part of those organizations. I do not agree with the things they do so I wasn't interested. But I also took the time to learn Latin and know a lot of about the symbolism they use and religion they follow. I didn't learn it from some random thread on /x/ or from browsing low effort websites either. There is a lot of information out on the web if you care to delve into such things. Trust me, the people that are members of those organizations are pretty pissed off the information is out there for those that want to seek it out. These same groups spread a lot of lies and try to paint outsiders that know as crazy for obvious reasons.

But if you can't see there were people coming in this thread with obvious bad intentions I can't really help you. Like I said; Do not feed the troll/spook. Which is why I linked that that helpful
guide here: >>107903730

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>>107905987
Rust is a big part of it yes. The push for "re-write everything in Rust for security" is coming directly from the US military and spooks. I don't wish to re-hash all the reasons or go into how the Rust Foundation is being funded. I encourage you to go look for yourself to see who is sitting on the board of that organization and who's funding it.

Mixing languages in the kernel is a very bad idea. Which is why C++ was denied in the kernel for so many years. Rust in particular is very bad because it will break support for many older platforms and even 32-bit x86. Mixing C and Rust in the kernel is going to lead to all sorts of bugs and problems. It will also put the ability to compile the kernel on your own machine out of reach of many people soon. Especially as new hardware comes along that will require Rust drivers to function. In addition, a lot of that stuff will probably not be licensed under GPL, BSD and other more friendly licenses that have allowed us little folks to be able to write and use source code on our own machine like we have since the 1980s. They're closing the x86 loophole and putting the genie back in the bottle.

The age of us common folks having access to hardware like we've had since the 1970s or so is coming to an end. The primary reason the Linux kernel is being developed these days is not so people can run it on their own machines. It's so these large data centers they're currently building can run it on the servers that will be used to power the security state we're currently seeing built around us. The future for end users are dumb terminals talking to hardware in "the cloud" that will be beyond our reach.

>>107906081
(cont.)

Rust aside there have been several things being allowed into the kernel over the last 5 or so years that are very bad. A lot of those patches coming directly from places like the NSA, Microsoft, Amazon, Facebook, IBM and the other spook fronts I've mentioned earlier ITT. For example, Linus has already bent the knee on issues like DRM (digital rights management).

Support for things like TPM are being baked in now which will be used to ID each individual machine and the users using those machines. I fear soon you will not be able to access the internet at all and will be blocked at the ISP level if you are not verified. The verification will be tied to your digital ID. Lots of laws have been passed recently and everyone is being opted in to these digital IDs through drivers licenses in my country. In two years I will no longer be able to legally drive for example if I don't renew my driver's license. When I renew it I'll have a federal digital ID instead of the state issued ID I've had all of my life. I'll be locked out of being able to use a bank account if I don't go along with this as well and denied access to basic services I need to live.

We're seeing this happening globally in every country. From USA to EU to UK to Japan to China they're all bringing in these systems in lock step. Most of which are all running on top of the Linux kernel.

As I mentioned before tons of people just got blacklisted and are no longer allowed to submit code to the kernel. They used the war in Russia as an excuse. Linus bent the knee because he lives in America and the only way he can continue making money from the kernel is to go along with what the DoD/Military/Government demands. It's now illegal for anyone that isn't doxed to submit code.

I am surprised a hard fork of the Linux kernel hasn't happened already. But it seems there is no one out there with enough balls to do it. Or more likely no one with enough resources to stand against what's happening.

>>107906081
Post your XMPP.

>>107906113
>TPM
I have no idea what this is and it sounds intimidating. But how can it be tied to my ID if I buy it second hand?

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>>107905748
>>107905783
>>107905832
>>107905880
Whoa damn it was actually you. I kinda had a hunch some of the people of that project would be in here, which I mentioned on that earlier post, once I realized this was the first gentoo thread in months with actual discussion instead of just riffing on the meme status of the distro. Somewhat upsetting to hea about the other people going missing in action but glad to know at least some of you are still around.
>>107906007
Not implying you were crazy, sorry if it came out that way. I just think we all have sets of beliefs that are highly improbable and that such improbability is clear to anyone but us, call them delusions if you wish, that's what I mean by it. Of course, highly improbable doesn't neccessarily mean they're false, and don't you worry, I too have my share of esoteric beliefs, I've done some homework on older and modern oligarchs, I know about some of the older families and how one of them inaugurated their empire after profitting from speculating on the napeleonic wars; I've done some reading on lodges and initations and the history of masonry, it's fine, Churchill was initiated in the scottish rite, Marx was initiated in lurianic kabballah, all tha jazz. I've done some reading on the hermetic golden dawn and other spawns of theosophy, and I've also been reading some of the links you posted. There are some other things too, but in your own words, they border on off-topic. While I believe all of these things, I think it is a reasonable thing to not fully commit to any of these ideas, specially in the case where you can't do anything about their consequences. That way lies madness, and even then, I don't really find the world to be so hopeless, and thankfully my enemies to be a single entity. In fact I take some solace in knowing they often squabble among themselves, and in knowing that I got to experience a little of the free internet. Ran my mouth, sorry about that. Maybe it's time I left. Take it easy man

>>107906161
NTA, but TPM is a blackbox that has a cryptokey baked inside that is used to process information. Each TPM module has its own key, that can be used to identify you.

>>107906081
>>107906113
Let me give you an example of what I mean about the latest kernels (since late 2024) being strange since those maintainers were removed from being able to contribute.

It was big news at the time then it seems people just forgot and the usual tech news sites stopped talking about this almost over night.

There was a company called Baikhal Electronics that was producing hardware MIPS and ARM hardware back around 2020. It was the only company that was producing CPUs outside of the US controlled/dominated companies (Intel, AMD, Motorola). Like these companies they were designing and producing the hardware out of the fabrication plants in Taiwan. Under US state sanctions they were denied access to using these fabs and the company was forced to file for bankruptcy in 2021. Then in 2024 when a list of people were banned from contributing to the kernel every last former employee of this company just happened to be on the list. A list that was compiled by US state department lawyers and sent to Linus and friends. Who bent the knee almost instantly.

Some discussion about it on the LKML: https://lore.kernel.org/all/3ace1329d4ef99b87780d0ef07db179d27d04d44.camel@oldum.net/

These people were all removed from contributing on October 18th 2024. Do you know what happened on the 17th of that same month? All versions of the Linux kernel from the version 5.xx and 6.xx series were re-built with massive change logs. I'll leave it up to the reader to decide what to make of this.

I doesn't take a rocket scientist to see what happened here.

We have telemetry and all manner of shady things baked directly into the kernel now. Every month it gets a little worse. It's millions of lines of code.

Have you read through all of it and audited it yourself lately? I know for a fact that I haven't. It's a massive undertaking after all.

>>107906300
NTA
> Do you know what happened on the 17th of that same month?
I just looked it up:
https://sysdfree.wordpress.com/2024/12/10/389/
"Judging from the size and dates of releases, the pivotal date being Oct. 18th when the patch to eliminate 11-12 devs was publiched, the fact that in the day before ALL kernels were rebuild, and especially on the v5 series the changelogs are extensive, one can decide of what and how something happened, then judge on their own whether safe is what was published on the 17th, before that, or after. If those eliminated had the chance to review the changes passed on the 17th how would they have done so if they were silenced. On the contrary some may believe something was already wrong and was corrected after the 18th of October. You decide!"


Current and LTS kernel changelogs and dates

ref:
https://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/v4.x/
https://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/v5.x/
https://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/v6.x/

6.6

ChangeLog-6.6.52 18-Sep-2024 17:34 103K
ChangeLog-6.6.53 30-Sep-2024 14:34 53K
ChangeLog-6.6.54 04-Oct-2024 14:39 720K
ChangeLog-6.6.55 10-Oct-2024 10:04 551K
ChangeLog-6.6.56 10-Oct-2024 10:59 1724
ChangeLog-6.6.57 17-Oct-2024 13:34 318K
ChangeLog-6.6.58 22-Oct-2024 13:54 228K
ChangeLog-6.6.59 01-Nov-2024 01:09 289K
ChangeLog-6.6.60 08-Nov-2024 15:51 243K
ChangeLog-6.6.61 14-Nov-2024 12:29 161K
ChangeLog-6.6.62 17-Nov-2024 14:23 68K
ChangeLog-6.6.63 22-Nov-2024 14:48 134K

6.11

ChangeLog-6.11.3 10-Oct-2024 10:14 773K
ChangeLog-6.11.4 17-Oct-2024 13:38 329K
>comment too long to post the rest
YEAH..... OpenBSD here I come.

>>107906300
>just happened to be on the list.
https://sanctionssearch.ofac.treas.gov/Details.aspx?id=39178
They're not allowed to work with anyone on the sanctions list.

>>107906447
Yes that's my point. You're okay with the US state department having full control over who is and who isn't allowed to contribute to the kernel? When for decades anyone anonymous could submit any code they wanted and all that mattered was is the code worthy of inclusion.

In the 90s anyone with a pseudonym and an email address could send a patch, have it reviewed and have it included for everyone's benefit as long as Linus signed off on the diff.

We used to take a stand against this sort of thing. People would print encryption algorithms as books and send them in the mail to Canada (and elsewhere) so others could use the software. People would proudly wear DeCSS t-shirts to cons and in public. People played spot the spook at DefCon.

Now DefCon is a spook convention.

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I hate schizos and spooks almost equally t.bh

The thread started off with *concern* over the Gentoo community and I started to feel very *concerned* myself. After that it went off the rails. The result is I feel more compelled to use Gentoo than ever before now. The moral of the story is never take advice from schizos.

I remember those days when Terry Davis kept getting banned from Hacker News for saying nigger. I felt annoyed about it at the time, but honestly there's no point in having patience with schizos. The mods were... right, amazingly. Every website and community who banned Terry Davis for being annoying were right. Tolerating it means your community is a trashbin for mindless drivel.

>>107906774
what posts in particular did you feel were lower in quality than posts such as
>cures your distrohopping
>2026... i am forgotten...
>if you didn't upgrade your pc in the last two months you're never gonna make it
>post your thinkpad guys
>desktop thread *posts furry battlestation*
even if you dismiss the more out there ideas this thread has been worthwhile. also please tell me what you thought about the fucking government document that was brought up lol

>>107906853
You forgot:
>AI generals
>MikeeUSA schizoramblings
>ANOTHER anti grapheneOS thread
>webp vs avif vs jxl
>amd vs nvidia
>noooo ram is so expensive
>niecespam
>20+ recycled threads from desuarchive

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>>107906853
The desperation to paint everyone ITT as crazy is really pathetic. A real person that was this annoyed wouldn't bother to reply in the first place.

If you see anyone using the usual buzzwords like schizo and meds you can be sure they're actively malicious or fell for the propaganda. They never engage or argue in good faith. They can't. As laid out in this helpful guide to spot them in the wild.

https://cryptome.org/2012/07/gent-forum-spies.htm

It doesn't matter if it's a retard or a spook. The result is the same and you're better off ignoring them. They hate being ignored more than anything. It's why they gave up earlier after attempting to shit the thread up. They really hate any thread where some actual people are having a friendly discussion. We don't have to agree to have a friendly discussion either. I love debate and I try to be nice even to those I disagree with. One of the things they attempt to do as stated in the above guide is to drive into an emotional rage in an attempt to make the person posting the information look deranged and angry. If they can drive you to anger they hope it'll make you look bad and cause you to reveal information about yourself.

Threads like this one used to be the majority of threads on this board a long long time ago. Back when actual users were here instead of paid posters and bots dominating the catalog with all manner of bullshit and daily spam/shilling.

One of the main reasons the modern web got so bad is because people forgot how to not feed the trolls.

>>107906167
I didn't see this before but I hope you stick around. I don't claim to have all the answers or that I'm right about everything. Never trust someone that isn't willing to admit they're wrong or mistaken. That's the mark of someone genuine after all. I've been wrong a lot in the past and every day I learn something new that makes me question what I believed. Just look at the root word of the word believe: beLIEve. Living the lie. Or lying to yourself, I guess.

Yeah they do in-fight and squabble. But it's important to remember that they do not see the rest of us as human. To them we're cattle. No different than a beast of burden. In their eyes we are not human.

There are many ways of fighting back. Sadly, most of them require uniting together and setting aside petty differences for the greater good. Which is why they use so many different methods to keep us in-fighting. Divide and conquer. They don't really care how they accomplish that. Race, class struggle, ideologies, political parties or even just poking you to fight about stuff that doesn't matter like brand wars. Which is why half the board here now is dumb shit like the daily console war bullshit.

Stick around. We can talk about Gentoo and Linux some more. I'm happy to debate this as well. But I didn't want to give the mods an excuse to delete the thread and/or wipe every post made here with an IP ban. Since I'm sure someone is furiously spamming reports hoping to do that. I'm surprised the thread has managed to stay up this long if I'm being honest.

>>107906927
Do what you want. I don't really have any interest in visiting whatever website you keep linking to. Like most everything I post/create/share I don't care if someone copies it, shares it or uploads it elsewhere. I don't care about people taking my old software and claiming as their own under whatever license. I couldn't care less about someone copy/pasting some posts I made. Data is meant to be free. Do with it what you wish.

>>107906876
>>MikeeUSA schizoramblings
Are we ranking schizos now?

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mikeeusa > usagi@moon

I am not this anon >>107906774 but I agree with him. I do not think you shouldn't be allowed to discuss your opinion in this thread, but I think the conclusions you are drawing are wrong. I think you have been saying alot of things based on reality and framed in a way that would make a naive anon believe you, but, none of the claims you make are backed by actual evidence.
Just one quick example, in a recent post you claimed that addition of rust in the Linux kernel would prevent home complitation because eventually you will need "rust drivers." What? No, you need the rust compiler, not special hardware. That being said, you are absolutely allowed to say this drivel, its just unhinged.

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>>107907009
The problems with the Rust compiler have been posted multiple times here everyday for years. But every day we get a daily Rust and/or C rage bait thread filled with the same people that pretend they haven't read those posts over and over again. For forgive me for not going over it again. If you were actually genuinely interested in the topic you would reply like a genuine user would. You also wouldn't be trying so desperately to attack the messenger.

You aren't anywhere near as clever as you think you are.

I don't need to post a mountain of sources to prove a compiler that requires more RAM than the average PC had 10 years ago to compile a very small application from source is going to make it harder for people to compile software at home on commodity hardware. I don't need to prove why being forced to cross-compile everything for the majority of platforms in use because the compiler can't run on 32-bit systems and non-AMD64 systems is going to cause people issues. I don't need a source for people that have dealt with the Rust compiler to know these things are true.

There is a reason why Gentoo was forced to switch to Rust-bin instead of the Rust package by default and it is directly tied to the point I was making. Anyone that's run Gentoo in the last 10 years would know. Even on a PC with 16GB of RAM you're forced to direct portage to use another storage device or use zram to get things like Firefox and the Rust compiler itself to run without triggering the kernel's OOM.

I am allowed to speculate and draw conclusions from what I've seen happening in the wild. It's called having an expert opinion on the subject built from years of experience.

Similarly, anyone that's actually developed large projects like a kernel will know why mixing two programming languages like Rust and C within one project is _always_ a horrible idea and why it will lead to a lot of bugs and pain. Bugs that will be blamed on the C parts of the kernel I'm sure.

>>107894428
Learn how to use a toilet, you freak.

>>107907009
>none of the claims you make are backed by actual evidence
i too have no idea what the fuck wall-of-text-kun meant by a rust driver but I'm not sure you're being fair considering that this post >>107905666 confirms some stuff written in >>107903948, assuming the two are different posters which is reasonable to assume considering the back and forth between the two and different posting styles. the latter post also links a blog post by Rich Felker, which come on now. the guy should be considered a minor deity around these parts. in the end of the day all of this is talk on a senegalese cartoon board and ideally you'll take everything with a grain of salt, but some of the stuff raised in this thread is quite reasonable, even if I would much like to do away with all the world domination talk

>>107907134
>i too have no idea what the fuck wall-of-text-kun meant by a rust driver
Allow me to explain. As I mentioned above the Rust compiler requires tons of RAM and takes forever to compile even Hello World even on a ton end system. I also talked above about how the code required to make the AMD GPU on my OpenBSD laptop work is comprised of more lines of code than the entire rest of the system (kernel+everything else in userland). Compiling the Linux kernel at the moment with most of the required modules to make modern hardware work can take 30+ minutes on a multi-core CPU with lots of RAM and resources to spare.

Now consider the following. In the near future Rust is going to be becoming more and more common within the kernel. The talk at the moment is that it'll be used for things like drivers at first but in time it'll invade more and more of kernel space.

Now let's assume the user wants to build everything from source code. This is Gentoo after all. Currently, one must compile GCC (or your favorite compiler here) and then after that they can compile the kernel from source. GCC already takes quite awhile to compile on its own then the kernel takes quiet awhile as well. Let's call it an hour all-in on the average PC (and that's being generous). It can be much longer on lower end or embedded systems.

Now with Rust being in the kernel we now have to also compile the Rust compiler. So we're already having to compile two compilers before we can compile the kernel. Then we'd have to compile the existing C part of the kernel plus whatever modules or parts that will be written in Rust in the future. Let's assume it'll take twice as long to do that than it would take if we were using C alone. So now we've added 2 more hours on top of our existing 1 hour example.

>>107907185
oh you meant "rust driver" as in drivers written in rust, and not some kind of proprietary thing needed for compiling rust. my bad i might actually be fucking retarded

>>107907185
(cont.)

Now let's assume we want to distribute per-compiled binaries for other users. Let's call them our end users and pretend we're making our own distro. In that case now our build servers are forced to run 3 times longer than they were when the kernel was only using C code. Now each and every time we need to re-build the kernel and lower userspace we're spending far more time every time we need to compile everything from source.

Do you see the problem? We've placed more load on our build servers. We either need more of them to do things in a timely manner or the end users are forced to wait longer for updated binaries. Updates that might be for important things like security fixes.

Compile times and resource usage going through the roof with Rust is just part of the problem. I haven't even gotten into issues like cargo and the fact that it becomes much harder to verify that the dependencies the Rust compiler pulled at compile time today are the same ones it'll pull 3 hours from now, or tomorrow or last week.

The Rust community refuses to address these issues at all. Their response has always been
>just run the binary we provide
So now we're forced to trust yet another third party along with every party supplying the mountains of dependencies the rust compiler always wants to pull from all over the internet at compile time.

Then there is the whole issue of the Rust compiler being built on top of LLVM. So now we have the possibility (which will probably happen) that a lot of distros not wanting to deal with grabbing GCC for the C portions and LLVM to support the Rust side. So a lot of them are likely to use use LLVM for both. Since the Rust community has fought the GNU people pretty hard when it comes to GNU providing a working Rust compiler of their own.

Large projects written in Rust require a lot more resources to ship binaries in a timely manner. So the costs of running build servers will go up a lot for everyone.

>>107907233
got any zingers on llvm specifically? i'd love to hear them. the inner workings of that thing impress me to no end but I can agree it can be a little unwieldy

>>107907211
Yeah, I was referring to drivers for the kernel being written in Rust. Which is the main thing everyone is talking about wanting to do with it at first. Of course, we know once it gets in they'll start saying they need to replace this or that with Rust for "safety" purposes. But another discussion for another time (mostly speculation until it happens anyway).

>>107907233
(cont.)

Another big issue with Rust in the kernel and if it starts to be required for things other than drivers and optional stuff you can exclude at compile time is the following; Let's assume you want your distro to support 32-bit x86 systems and let's say something like Alpha arch. Well. The Rust compiler can't build natively on those systems. So to run that code on your machine you're not unable to build it locally on the machine itself. You either have to have a local machine that can cross-compile the Rust parts of the kernel or you have to rent a build server from someone else. So now you not only have to trust all these new third parties for the compiler you also have to trust a third party somewhere on the internet for the actual hardware.

The Rust community always claims non-AMD64 archs are dead and to "get with the times". Supporting things like an Intel P3 processor, an old m68k machine, an Alpha CPU all things of that nature are not a priority for them. A lot of them aren't even supported with cross-compilation and probably never will be. So a lot of machines that can currently run the Linux kernel are left out in the cold. They're now obsolete for no reason.

>>107907270
Well I'm not a huge fan of either GCC or LLVM if I'm being honest. If you look into why we even have LLVM right now and who funded it you might feel the same way about it. But I'm not going to hate on it just to be a hater. I could say a lot of bad things about GCC too.

My main issue with it in this case is the same reason I dislike mixing two programming languages inside of one kernel. Bugs.

>>107905666
on the audio topic: there was a time i couldn't get some pipewire / wireplumber interactions working despite following the documentation line by line. i then asked an LLM to fetch me the documentation, which contradicted the official, go figure, but the one provided by the LLM actually worked. no idea how that happened. wonder if it just spat some reprocessed forum post at me
>inb4 different versions
wrong but nice try

>>107907291
>My main issue with it in this case is the same reason I dislike mixing two programming languages inside of one kernel. Bugs.

I've said this a few times so let me be clear. The rust community claims this is no big deal because the kernel currently has asm and a handful of other small sections written in other non-C languages. But bringing in Rust is not the same thing and their arguments are not valid in this respect. I don't want C++ or something like D in the kernel for the same reason I don't want Rust in it. History has proven this is a horrible idea and it's why Linus was so opposed to allowing things like C++ in for decades.

The excuse he gave for accepting Rust in boiled down to
>Young programmers are using it and don't know how to use C. So we need to use Rust or we'll have no new blood to help maintain the kernel
Which is frankly, bullshit. We all know Rust did not become popular by its own merits. It gained popularity through a massive shilling campaign funded with tax payer dollars. The push for it came directly out of the same people that pushed so hard for things like systemd: The US military/intelligence community and their front companies (M$, Amazon and all the other I've mentioned before).

There are plenty of young people that know C and if they don't then they should be learning it. Since we're going to be using C for a long time to come because most everything of importance is written in it. If one wants to understand the kernel and understand the compilers in common use at the moment they must know C. Furthermore, we'll need to support all this "legacy" software for decades to come. So we need new blood that not only knows C we need new blood that are experts in C.

The solution isn't accepting in a new language into the Linux kernel. The proper way is to teach and mentor new developers as we've been doing for decades.

C has its problems. But one should know it if they expect to understand the systems we're using.

>>107907291
>>107907344
I wouldn't even care if Rust was actually objectively superior to C and every compiled system utility henceforth was written in it. The thing that makes me uneasy about the language is the culture around it, this zealot movement towards rewriting everything in it as if there were anything wrong with pure C that is just sitting there quietly doing it's job and being supported by pretty much all hardware that matters. Of course some of these people are misguided and thirsty for accomplishment and participation in something as large as the kernel, but I don't know man. If it ain't broken don't fix it

>>107907337
Most likely it was trained on some reddit post or something and spat that out. That's one of the main issues with using LLMs as a search engine. It refuses to give you the original source of the information so you can verify it (and save it for later reference).

The entire audio stack on Linux is a huge mess. A lot of people praise pipewire because it isn't as bad as pulseaudio (in their opinion). In reality it's crap all the way down because ALSA is still in such a sorry shape after all these years.

This is one of the main reasons why I prefer the BSDs so much these days. Audio isn't a mess on them like it is in Linux. Working with OSS and sndio is very pleasant compared to dealing with ALSA, pulse/pipe and JACK (two versions) on Linux.

Thankfully, a lot of stuff supports both OSS and sndio natively. But it's rarely enabled in binaries so you have to compile those things from source to get proper support for sndio. But once you do that it's much less of a headache to deal with and most of the ports on the BSDs already use those options and supply them enabled in the binaries.

I don't think it's as ominous as "spooks" trying to control Linux, but a natural consequence of two things.
1. GPL: this means corps have to contribute upstream
2. Doing so means they will have greater influence over the project

BSD doesn't have as much of a problem because they are smaller and their licensing isn't an open invitation. Having a "cuck" license means just that, they get used and get nothing back for their work besides a small donation. That's a good thing it turns out.

>>107907407
I am very skeptical of the claims Rust makes about being safer than C when it comes to things like managing memory. I do not feel the trade off of very increased compile times are worth it. Plus their ecosystem still relies heavily on C as well. I think the proper solution to this problem would be teaching people how to properly use C safely to avoid the common pit falls.

History has proven that you can't avoid bugs of that nature by trying to deal with them using the compiler. You're just kicking the can down the road and I'm sure in 10-20 years time there will be a whole host of issues, bugs and security problems even in things written purely in Rust.

Mixing C and Rust is just a recipe for disaster. It gives these people a false sense of security. Mixing them together like that will end up causing far more issues than simply trying to write code in C that is good.

I too am not a fan of the community surrounding it.

>>107907428
Yes it's true that the GPL has forced these companies to subvert the projects directly. Which is why they've seized control over so much of the ecosystem. But I encourage you to look deeper into who is behind and funding these companies. Everywhere you look you'll find the same people throwing around the big money: military and Government. You'll also discover that most of that money is coming directly out of the US treasury. Then you'll discover things like the fact that most of these "rockstar tech bros" are really just front men for projects that were originally spawned by the US DoD. Zuckerberg being a prime example. The DoD ends the LifeLog project one day and Facebook just happens to open up the very next day. They expect you to believe this college student just had enough cash laying around to fund a large social website that was written in php+mySQL and required tons of server resources.

There were many people back then doing the same thing Zuckerberg was doing. They just didn't have endless cash reserves.

>>107907413
>Audio isn't a mess on them like it is in Linux
Not from my experience. If we're counting MIDI here, it's a pain in the ass to connect a MIDI keyboard and have software recognise it. Although it could be because the software in question is primarily made for Linux and FreeBSD support is an afterthought. The ideal to strive for would be having the ability to plug in devices and software to recognise them without tinkering with config files or running commands manually.
Pipewire from my experience does that, but does it inconsistently. If it works, great, if it doesn't, then I don't even know where to begin - Whereas with FreeBSD I probably just forgot a step so I review, and I can get it to work.
All in all audio is just as much of a mess on FreeBSD as on Linux. I can't speak for NetBSD or OpenBSD but I suspect it's the same. Software support is partly to blame but really the whole thing needs a rethink. I can see why it's attractive to build things from the ground up to try and unify everything.

>>107905666
>devilish trips of truth
absolutely FreeBSD

>>107907498
A lot of those problems come down to driver support. But you also have to understand that FreeBSD isn't like Net/OpenBSD in this area. By that I mean a lot of things on FreeBSD are just the Linux version running on top of FreeBSD. Either through the Linux emulator or in the case of a lot of ports on FreeBSD they've pulled in pulseaudio/pipewire so now you're running that on top of FreeBSD's native OSS.

In OpenBSD that is not acceptable. On OpenBSD the port would use sndio natively or it wouldn't have sound at all. When things are ported they're ported over more cleanly so the entire system is more coherent. Things are also going to be documented because lack of docs on OpenBSD are considered the same as having a bug in the code. Where in Linux (and FreeBSD to a lesser extent) man pages are sorely lacking. For FreeBSD a sndio port exists and you can use it instead of the native OSS for most things. But again; you'll be compiling most of your stuff from source like you'd have to do on Linux to get it.

Compare to the situation on OpenBSD where MIDI just werks: https://man.openbsd.org/sndio.7

Provided your hardware is supported of course. If you haven't you should check out sndio. You'll probably really enjoy it.

For audio production on Linux I tend to stick to JACK-only whenever possible. I try to avoid pipewire due to the whole needing dbus thing.

>>107907543
jack literally relies on alsa retard

>>107907571
Yeah no shit. Congrats on stating the obvious.

>>107907472
I just don't buy into this 1990s black helicopters world view anymore. The people who work in Silicon Valley run circles around the retards at Langley. It might have been the case that there was or still is a fantastic scaffolding (Intel ME, black money networks) created by spooks, but they've not managed to replace themselves with as competent people, assuming it ever existed at all. Zuckerberg being funded by the Winklevoss Twins is well known, they made a movie about it.

>>107907543
hi im retarded and this thread is very long
i read it all anyway but i'm confused
as a devuan linux + fvwm + pure-alsa user who uses eclipse ide, should i use openbsd instead of the compromised linux?

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Man they just can't help themselves can they? I'm angry my tax money is being wasted on paying these retards to shit up every last place on the internet all day. I guess the mention of LifeLog being re-branded as facebook isn't appreciated by our frens at Langley and Eglin Air Force Base.

I can't believe my tax money is wasted on these retards. At least we can take confront in the fact that if there is a hell they're all going to burn in it for eternity. Although I'm honestly hoping they get reincarnated as a roach or something in their next life.

It's pretty insulting that they think anyone is stupid enough to fall for such transparent lies.

>>107907583
mostly we've been talking about how Linux doesn't really belong to the people anymore and complaining about some changes forced down in the past decade or so but seriously, give the BSDs a try just for the kickingd and if you don't fuck wirh it just stick to what you know and love. As long as the Intel ME can run a tiny minix service to peek into your ram you're pwned one way or the other

>>107907621
and fuck proof reading btw i fucking bleed typos

You can literally compile Rust on a rpi4
>CPU: BCM2711 (4) @ 1.50 GHz
>Memory: 484.95 MiB / 3.70 GiB (13%)
>rust 1.92.0 1 5h21m28s
also right now you don't need rust at all to compile the kernel if you don't need the few drivers that require it and I think the linux kernel is 100% right to drop support for old shit like alpha or m68k, If you want to be a luddite and use some ancient trash then just use an older kernel, that's literally a non issue. Reminder that linux 1.0 required a 386 and Slackware 1.0 didn't have 5.25inch install disks, only 3.5. linux was never designed to support old trash.

>>107907631
RIP to your storage device
>1.5Ghz
>5 and a half hours
wew.
>old trash
Like your 12 year old PC with 4+ cores and 8GB of RAM.

>>107907571
The FreeBSD pkg of jack actually has alsa ripped out of it. This means audio works fine on jack but midi doesn't. Some norwegian called Hans Petter Selasky wrote some workarounds to this, which i'm using for my MIDI devices. Too bad he died in a traffic accident and most of his ports are sitting unmaintained.
I don't see any DAWs that I know of in PufferfishBSD's ports. On FreeBSD i'm using Rosegarden.

>>107907658
snido is ported to Linux. You should give it a try sometime.

>>107907641
>Like your 12 year old PC with 4+ cores and 8GB of RAM
there is literally nothing you can't compile on such a pc retard, if something needs more ram don't compile in a ramdisk and lower the job count.

jack is just a highly configurable audio mixer not a alternative to operating systems audio interface
sndio is comparable to oss
alsa is comparable to openbsd "azalia"
literal audio interfaces
not a fucking sound server
blow your brains out

>>107907291
Legendary thread, thank you so much. What is your take on Valve or the company they hried Igalia to write LAVD?? I help mantain some popular Arch linux mirrors, English is not my first langugae, and its late at night and I have a robot that needs to be built from a bunch of parts i got of off TEMU as I am trying to build a rover for some geophysics project to BTFO certain municipalities while jannying some linux subs https://static.sched.com/hosted_files/ossna2024/9b/scx-lavd-oss-na24.pdf - really interested on your take on LAVD apparently facebook is also using it now and I have been running it on my servers and also did benchmarks too. Can we trust Valve to save Linux? Also I like your take on needed to be doxxed to contribute

>>107907684
Yeah I know how to run make faggot. My point is I don't want to waste 3 hours on hello world when I can simply run something written in any other language and not have to deal with this retarded shit. Plus I have a bunch of hardware that isn't an 64-bit x86 system and I'd prefer that my software can build natively there as well. I'm sick of so much stuff pulling in Rust for no good reason and throwing a monkey wrench into my comfy set-up that's worked fine across all my systems for decades now. I also don't want to murder my SSD or deal with having to build on an HDD.

No other language/compiler has this problem. That's what you people don't understand. Then on top of that you people refuse to stabilize or even provide a proper specification. So you want me to constantly rebuild this shit every other week.

Don't even get me started on the whole cargo debacle. Stop importing your cancer into existing projects. No one would care if you people actually wrote new stuff in this language we could simply choose not to run it. But you all insist on making Rust a hard dependency in projects written in C that have been around forever.

>>107907768
No idea why you're so angry and ranting while trying to claim everyone else is retarded. We're all aware that everything on Linux is running on top of ALSA and we know ALSA is cancer.

The reason I'm using JACK is because I work with pro-audio tools. Which are all written for JACK because JACK is what people using low latency audio on Linux use.

You and the rust guy have the same issue: You assume everyone else is some kind of retard when it's you all that lack reading comprehension. It's very obvious that most of you people don't even know what you're talking about. You're just parroting stuff you've read on places like the Arch wiki then trying to appear smart and stroke your own ego by restating it.

Some of us have more than one computer and have actually used (and contributed to) more than one OS. I've been using Linux since before ALSA was even a thing. I'm well aware of why ALSA is bad and why the audio stack on Linux is cancer. Pipewire is just as bad as pulseaudio by the way (actually it's worse, an amazing feat of bad engineering).

Would you like to hear about the good old days of pulseaudio when it decided it wanted to eat 100% of my AMD Thunderbird CPU that was OCed to 1.4Ghz?

>>107908085
I have nothing to do with rust retard, I don't give a shit about it my point is right now you don't need it all to build to kernel, you can build it on something as weak as a rpi4, if you don't want to build you can just use rustup, you can probably also cross compile it (I do this for llvm for my rpi4). you are just some luddite who thinks it's the end of the world if you can't use the latest kernel on your 25 year old trash. do retro computing, use a retro OS.

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>>107908127
So you admit that you haven't read any of the posts and the points made in them at all. Since you just did exactly what I said you people always do
>You can just run our binary
>You can just cross-compile it
>it's no big deal that we're making a bunch of perfectly good hardware obsolete for no reason
and my favorite
>you don't need to build natively anyway
When that's been the standard test to see if your shit isn't totally broken since the dawn of time.

Thanks for admitting that you don't give a fuck about other people's "use cases" I guess. I'm sure the
>what are you, poor?
insult will be coming along very soon too.

Don't even try to pretend that there hasn't be a huge effort on the part of people shilling Rust and the companies behind it to break 30+ years of things that had been working perfectly fine for everyone before you faggots came along and felt like you had the right to dictate to other people how they should use their hardware and software.

The worse part is I know you've read these same points probably over 9,000 times already on here (and elsewhere). But you'll be here again tomorrow. Trying to bait people with a thread about how C sucks and pretending to be totally retarded (well you're probably not pretending).

Why is it that you idiots always want to learn the hard way? What's really ironic is you're arguing that I should be content running an old kernel. But then you're the same type of person that turns around and tells people they need to updoot to have security and that a piece of software is dangerous because it hasn't had a commit in the last few hours so now that project is "dead".

We're not falling for it. Everyone that's been around for years is telling you that you sound like a fag and your shits all retarded for a good reason.

Don't think I didn't notice that you used a Pi in your example because its CPU is the only thing other than a high-end 64-bit x86 CPU that your shitty compiler even runs on top of.

>>107908107
>No idea why you're so angry and ranting
i'm "NTA" you're projecting someone else that isn't me
>JACK is because I work with pro-audio tools. Which are all written for JACK
i use jack too for specific usecases and different platforms has some annoying issues
>JACK is what people using low latency audio on Linux use
no
>You and the rust guy have the same issue
you're projecting again
>Some of us have more than one computer
several of my computers has different architectures than just x86/64 or arm
>I'm well aware of why ALSA is bad
no
>an amazing feat of bad engineering
it is
>Would you like to hear about the good old days of pulseaudio when it decided it wanted to eat 100% of my AMD Thunderbird CPU that was OCed to 1.4Ghz?
does it look like i'm praising polypaudio

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>>107908001
Have fun building your robot anon.

>Can we trust Valve to save Linux?
You can trust Valve to push more aggressive DRM and do everything they can to ruin everything they touch. You really shouldn't be using these services. But I understand why people do since they want to play video games with their friends online. I don't allow steam on most of my systems. I have a dedicated gaming PC for it but I rarely play anything on it these days. The games I do play are pretty old now (2016 was when the newest one I play regularly was released). I do not have a large Steam library. I pirate and I encourage other people to do the same. I mostly play older FPS games (mainly Q3A, UT and L4D), fighting games and SHUMPs. The fighting games I do play aren't any of these modern ones (they ruined all three of my favorite series these last few years). I prefer to play on dedicated hardware whenever possible (like my Neo-Geo MVS). My friends and I prefer to play together IRL on the couch.

You get the point. I used to be big into playing console games but I always mod chipped or softmodded them.

As far as this scheduler is concerned I don't see this as anything special. But I'll withhold judgement until I try it. I already run a low latency kernel for doing audio stuff (I make music as a hobby). I don't have any issue with "stuttering" on my machines. But then again I don't run one of these "gaming distros" that went all-in on wayland and every other recent gimmick designed to separate money from dumb fags that don't know any better.

Proton/wine has a lot of issues with various games I play. I still maintain a PC-98 and PCs running Windows 2k/XP on bare metal because wine simply lacks support for a lot of games I like from that era (or their mods). It's just less of a pain to keep those machines going than it is to fuck with wine all of the time and deal with setting up controllers/joysticks on Linux (it's really horrible once you need support for 2-4 at the same time).

>>107907768
>blow your brains out
>>107908285
>I'm actually being nice you're just projecting
Okay.

>>107908332
>>blow your brains out
@>>107907571
>Okay.
it's not the first time you did this

>>107908163
learn to read retard, I have nothing to do with rust, I'm not shilling it, I don't care about it but I also don't need to go on a schizo rant about it.
there is literally zero use case in 2025 to use a 32bit only CPU, literally none except retro computing and in this case like I said just use a retro OS. Is your 32bit only machine the only computer you own? Obviously no so like I said you're just being a luddite muh I need latest kernel to run on all my hardware from the past 30 years. You're just like the T2 linux retard whio spends his life cross compiling and fixing packages for ancient architectures but at the end of the day he spends all day on his 32 cores Ryzen cpu with 128GB of DDR5 RAM and boots the shitboxes up for 5 minutes just to say oh look it works. Or some other boomer tard on twitch (twitch.tv/lastmiles) who spends all his time installing distro on muh sparc and other shitware while again most of his time is spent on a modern 64bit amd64 cpu with 128GB of ECC RAM. because of course the luddite needs ECC RAM, it would be the end of the world if there was a bit flip while he's doing he 100th useless compilation for some shitbox. whatever have fun with your shizo conspiracy retardation and thinking everyone who disagrees with you a spook/shill. I have plenty of shitboxes around but l don't even see why I would boot them up when my main PC can do everything better than the shitboxes and I rather run a rpi4 for my home server since it doesn't make any noise and barely consumes any power.

>>107908620
did you do this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIEwcTKUFCA

>>107908642
Lmao

>>107908642
sorry I'm not a nigger and don't have sub 100IQ but the T2 guy has some serious issue, spends all day ranting about the state of modern linux, talks big about writing his micro kernel and start everything from scratch when he spent more than a decade as a macfag, is begging for donations all day when for the lambda user his T2 distribution brings nothing to the table compared to all the other major distros out there. 100% luddite

>>107908642
and fun fact the amazing "we cross compile everything T2 Linux" can't even into multilib lmao:
https://github.com/rxrbln/t2sde/issues/265

>>107902175
You sound here like grandpa user, not a power user.
I have systems that greatly benefit from the things GTK 3/4 and Gnome in general did. Mobile, touch, tablet systems.
I'm not a fan of all the systemd dependency, but there are things that improved.
If people cared about good/free GUI toolkit we would have working and modern GNUstep.

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>>107902257
>In the 90s-mid 2000s the web browser wasn't this massive security hole by design.
ActiveX, 1996

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>>107905601
>>107905748
>>107905783
>>107905832
>>107905880
I totally expected the thread to die after 2 or 3 and to learn nothing but lo and behold, the thread is still up after a hundred posts and the very anon dropped by to reply. The only thing that could make this thread better would be if drobbins himself dropped by to explain what he's working on. Thanks for detailed replies man, I feel like I won /g/ lottery in a way. I know it's a little hard to avoid getting discouraged when you look at the state of tech now beyond just consuming but you know the drill... head up. Cheers

>>107908620
>I have no usecase for alternative ISAs or 32bit computing so it MUST be eradicated! 32bit is uhm... LE BAD!
>l-l-luddite!
yeah...
>>107908949
>shilling for fucking gnome
>the cancer that brought us all this faggotry
you can't make this up

also, rip to the effortposter-kun, I'll miss your posts :^)
I hope I can find you elsewhere and not on this shithole

>>107909825
so tell me what's your use case for a 32bit computer anon? Technology shouldn't be held back by luddites who cling on to old shit, like I stated earlier Linus decided to target only 386 and newer when the 286 was only 9 years old, it's 2026 and the last 32bit cpu is nearly 20 years old. nobody has to care for your luddite edge case retard. don't like it make your own distro/kernel fork

>>107909891
>all of my embedded shit at work (including ESP32 with other stuff for LoRa shit etc.)
>all of my customers embedded shit and HAM radio shit (including SDRs, FT8 modules if they're not using older ICs like Si4734-C40-GU etc.)
>some STM32 H7 stuff
>pre IME hardware
Just because (you) don't have a usecase for 32 bit computing that doesn't mean others don't.
Here's my luddite edge case, nigger.

>>107909974
>pre IME hardware
ok pedo
>embedded shit
not like you're compiling the kernel on any of these anyways nigger retard.

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>>107909998
>why do you care about a tiny cpu inside your cpu using your own ram and power to run a modified minix system at negative rings to spy on you anon
>why do you care about the state setting up a perpetual surveillance machine anon
>do you have something to hide anon

>>107909998
yeah... this is bait.
>inb4 kys luddite
:^)

>>107897379
god i wish those of us who are in the public light would act less retarded
>>107897403
i do find her physically cute though

>>107909998
>>107910040
ok have fun into your schizo rabbit hole anons, don't forget to watch more youtube conspiracy videos and keep paying your taxes like good goys. amerifat the land of the free who taxes you wherever you go lmao

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>>107910133
i am not american and i do not watch youtube. in any case it's a little cute how earlier you (>>107909998) or some other retarded analogue of yours implied only criminals care about the breach of privacy made possible by the intel ime and right now, you're suggesting said qualities of the intel ime are just a conspiracy theory. which one is it, anon? please tell me how you'd reconcile the two positions, i'd love to hear it.

>>107910216
>post children cartoon face
>worries about IME
b-but I swear I'm not a pedo. People have been using IME cpus for years and nothing changed, you can still torrent, download porn, denuvo games get cracked and so on. literally the only people who worry about that shit are schizos and pedos. even Terry was using a post IME cpu to run is schizo OS in vmware.

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>>107910500
>>107909998
>muh schizos
>muh pedos
>you have nothing to hide
>IME free CPUs are for HECKIN SCHIZOS!
Good morning Eglin AFB!

>>107910500
You are naive as fuck. Once everyone has an IME CPU and you can't get non-IME CPUs, they can do whatever the fuck they want. The only other choice is not to use a computer at all. Just like TPM and secureboot have been shipping for years and no consumer software really used it. Suddenly a big game comes out that does (Battlefield 6) and hardly anyone cares you basically need secure boot and hardware DRM to play.

Same thing with Widevine. You probably didn't care about Netflix getting it. Now it's all over the internet, even news sites ask for DRM protected content. And it enabled YouTube to pull tons of videos.

You'll start seeing secure boot and TPM become requirements for games and other stuff you don't care about. Eventually it'll start creeping into things you do care about. And people will call you a pedo and a schitzo for not wanting it. Just like how people ostracized others for not having a Facebook where they posted mundane details about their life for a few likes.

>>107910729
>multiplayer goyslop
who cares, denuvo is currently getting cracked by voices38, they lost.
>troonflix
who cares, everything is still on usenet/torrent sites and newer media is mostly 99% goyslop trash anyways.
>removed youtube videos
literally all zero value trash like 99% of youtube
again a nothing burger and you're just worried about muh future. if the government wants to fuck you over they can just increases the taxes and fleece you like a good goy and send you to jail if you don't pay them. read books, get into lifting/running instead of worrying about what might happen in x years down the line.

>>107910500
>le smug cartoon face = pedophilia
Ohbsorry I haven't heard, next time I'll post smug george constanza or something. You're deflecting like mad.
>aint nothin changed since the intel IME mane is all good...
I did not ask that. Does the IME put user privacy in jeopardy, yes or no? Do you think the ability of corporations and the government to breach privacy is something a citizen should worry about, yes or no?

Do you know how the real people I know, with functioning brains react when they learn about it?
>This is awful. How did it get to this point?

You know what the glownigger and/or conformist cattle response is?
>hmmm why are you so obsessed with the right to privacy?? how does this affect YOU personally?? are you a terrorist?? are you a pedo??

p.s If you actually cared about pedophilia head over to the private trackers general cause that is where the real suckers hang out

>>107911245
>>This is awful. How did it get to this point?
yet they walk around with a mobile tracking device all day and don't care, buy cars with GPS and other trash, post their whole life on tiktok/facebook/instagram, vote to give gibs from their tax money to useless parasites, get killed to protect illegals, kneel down to suck nigger cock but oh no le IME the government is spying on me it's the end of the world. retards

>>107911367
What a bizarre post. Are you describing your peers? Just get better friends. Not everyone in the world is a neurotic white liberal, you know. Last (You) you can get, as a treat

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>>107896036
>>107896036
>>107896155
>>107896209
Bash is superior to POSIX shell, it's still retarded unixshit though.
Python will always be superior to shellscript braindamage, ebuilds written in Python would be superior actually.
OpenRC is also garbage, systemd on Gentoo is the superior choice.
>but muh unix
lmao

>>107901936
>They've basically shoved in a bunch of spyware, malware and backdoors by fear mongering about security.
There's nothing of the like in modern Gentoo, which is still one of the few system you can completely control, you're acting literally like a schizo.
>>107902022
>>107902762
In your schizo rant you forgot the worst thing which is flatpak/appimage which is intended for bringing app store cancer on linux desktop.
Anyway you seem to be stuck in a real contrarian and paranoid mindset, Linux is still free, Gentoo is still free, all you've mentioned can be avoided entirely, we still have choice of building the system which we want, and not everything new is bad, I find your attitude defeatist and counterproductive.
This kind of paranoia is self-defeating thinking because it's a kind of unachievable purity spiral.

>>107896155
>Currently the guy maintain the gentoo-kernel is shipping a bunch of patches by default that you do not want on your system
Like what specifically?
>>107901726
>Why are you people that have such a hate boner for C
Not him, but C is a fine language just like Rust is (regardless of what /g/ contrarians say) for certain tasks but certainly not for scripting, just like Python is a perfectly fine language for a lot of things but not for making a package manager or anything that needs performance.
We really need to stop making tools, be it programming languages or text editors, into religions.
>>107902022
>We didn't need something like dbus in the first place since we have pipes
Pipes and Dbus are completely different kinds of IPC, I don't like Dbus personally but it's my opinion more as a developer than as a user.
>Same for stuff like polkit
You can remove polkit and pam on gentoo.
>>107902175
>>107902257
>>107902346
I agree that the kind of security theather that Wayland is based on is both useless and harmful, in a better world we wouldn't even need sandboxing at all but here we are, personally I use X and do sandboxing with apparmor, as for OpenBSD pledge/unveil the problem is that it needs to be supported at the software level, like you need to patch it in for every time a syscall is used.
>>107902955
>MIT is a spook school anon
Nonsense, hacker culture was created there, people like Sussman and Stallman work (or worked) there and they might as well be gods to you.
>>107903027
Problem with OpenBSD is that its philosophy is anti-tinkering and anti-hacker, you're supposed to use it the way Theo wants or you go in unsupported territory, it's kind of the opposite of Gentoo in a way.
I will always prefer curiosity to security.

>this thread
get ready for systemd-linuxd, luddites!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSbNumR9Z8k

>>107912087
>systemd-linuxd
That's the way, fuck current linux fragmentation, we need a project that unifies kernel/init/userland/desktop in a coherent thing. That's how you fix linux.

>>107912485
We need to rewrite linux and systemd in rust, remove X, replace GNU coreutils with uutils, punch nazis, enforce flatpaks and deprecate package managers. This is the only way we survive the fascist plague.

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>>107905666
>but who the fuck has time for that
This post is probably going to invoke some rage but if there has been any time in history when it has been plausible to consider restarting things from scratch it is now. Thanks to, yes, LLM-assisted coding. I'm not talking about vibe-coding or mindlessly getting ChatGPT to spew function after function of spaghetti, but programming with a smart autocomplete that can make you work faster.
It's a meme, but the 10x developer thing is real in some cases. We have never had the tools to be as efficient as now (even if it's offset by the fact that everything is needlessly complex nowadays). If you know what you're doing and you can do something 10 times slower, using an LLM to help you can let you do things you would've been crazy to attempt 10 years ago. Mostly because a lot of the code you write is boilerplate or standard patterns that the "AI" knows well. You just need to be careful about how you use them.
If anyone's up for it, I can make the logo.

>>107912989
>We need to rewrite linux and systemd in rust
Fools errand.
>remove X
Yes but unironically, we should put graphics inside the kernel.
>replace GNU coreutils with uutils
I'm all for replacing GNU/cancer.
>punch nazis
You'll need a time machine for that.
>enforce flatpaks and deprecate package managers
No containerization needs to fucking die.
Yes we should kill all package managers and have a single one as a standardized system component.

>>107913026
so true sis, no containerization is bad, we need to enforce a single unified system without privileges on every user, you're a fucking nazi if you disagree

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>>107905855

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>>107905666
>>107912998
OS development is fun, much more fun than trying to fix Linux or any other UNIX braindamage which has so many retarded ideas and layers of legacy that were already obsolete in the 70's, the least fun part is doing the kernel but you can start by having the OS without the kernel running as an application on Linux.
I have been developing my own system since a while, although it looks nothing like UNIX, it's more of a Lisp machine/Smalltalk environment with its own language and computing environment kind of thing, it's still very early admittedly but I hope I'll make progress this year.
LLMs can help a lot indeed, but I wouldn't use them as autocomplete, any code that you didn't write you won't understand, and what is the point of writing everything from scratch if you don't understand it? Personally I use it (Claude) as an enhanced Google+Stack Overflow from the chat interface or the API and it served me well.

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>>107913062
I accept your concession.

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Anon i remember you, can you give an update on picrel seeing it's the most interesting thing ever.

>>107913142
vampire wife

>>107895880
>They are obviously talking about finally eliminating the python dependency required by portage (and hopefully bash too).
Thank God.

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>>107913173
Sophie love.

>>107913083
I hope someone murders you.

>>107913142
>any code that you didn't write you won't understand, and what is the point of writing everything from scratch if you don't understand it?
When I said autocomplete I should've said autistic intern or something. It's not as fun, but generating code, and then auditing it is usually faster than writing it yourself IF your design is solid. If your design is flawed or the LLM gets confused into retarded territory, you end up having to rewrite it yourself, which is the double-edged sword of this thing.
>Personally I use it (Claude) as an enhanced Google+Stack Overflow from the chat interface or the API and it served me well.
Yes, it's very useful as an interactive documentation
>>107913273
It was a joke :(

>>107913166
FUCK I remember reading this anon's posts and relating to a ton of shit, but then the whole thing just vanished

Aand the thread is dead

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>>107913538
>dead

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>>107906774
Indeed moderation exists to prevent what happened to this thread, it's only when it's abused for personal/political reasons that moderation becomes censorship.
Schizos have no place in civilized discussion, they only add noise.
(still a better thread than 99% of the shit in the catalog though ironically)

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>>107913538
It's too bad she won't live. But then again, who does?

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>>107896155
>>107896209
>>107902955
>>107903730
>>107904207
>>107904873
>>107905748
Anon... I have to agree with the clanker on this one.

>>107913083
That's absolute cancer, thank you

>>107914431
@grok is this real?

>>107892690
drobbins is a macfag now and the only major advantage was git synced ebuilds. Just install Gentoo it has that now too.

>>107914431
What the hell? where are the em-dashes?

>>107914431
I love threads like this, but I wish we could argue in a more civilized and productive way, forking gentoo would be a nice board project.

>>107914431
now send it the glownigger document that was shared on catbox.moe

>>107897379
>>107897403
he doesn't look "gyaru" on the pic. damn iralian tranny.
don't mind, though. I use gentoo-sources. it was the default on handbook back then.

>>107914745
I still don't understand what is so wrong with gentoo-sources, I also use it.

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>>107895880
isn't xbps made in C? and doesn't it also have options for building from source? what's stopping anyone from forking that?

>dude... i am totally forbidden from talking about it !
>talks anyway
>the thread is still up
kill yourself

Now THAT'S what I call a /g/ thread

>>107916222
nice trips faggot

>>107903646
what's your argument other than
>muh schizo

>>107917195
>what's your argument
>>107903597

Wow I made someone really angry.

>>107917195
It's cute how they have no arguments and resort to taking quotes out of context isn't it? Someone shared this thread with the spooks at Gentoo that got called out for taking over and ruining the project. They all have google alerts setup to see wherever they're mentioned on the web so no doubt one of them woke up and sent in the goon squad.

>>107911974
>MIT is a spook school
>Nonsense, hacker culture was created there, people like Sussman and Stallman work (or worked) there and they might as well be gods to you.
LOL
>In response to American industrialization, William Barton Rogers organized a school in Boston to create "useful knowledge." Initially funded by a federal land grant, the institute adopted a polytechnic model that stressed laboratory instruction in applied science and engineering. MIT moved from Boston to Cambridge in 1916 and grew rapidly through collaboration with private industry, military branches, and new federal basic research agencies, the formation of which was influenced by MIT faculty like Vannevar Bush.
>Vannevar Bush (/væˈniːvɑːr/ van-NEE-var; March 11, 1890 – June 28, 1974) was an American engineer, inventor and science administrator, who during World War II headed the U.S. Office of Scientific Research and Development (OSRD), through which almost all wartime military R&D was carried out, including important developments in radar and the initiation and early administration of the Manhattan Project. He emphasized the importance of scientific research to national security and economic well-being, and was chiefly responsible for the movement that led to the creation of the National Science Foundation.

Openly admitted right on wikipedia
>Stallman
Jew.

>>107917558
>other than muh schizo

If you want a laugh check out this angry blog post written by Gentoo devs that read your mean threads on /g/: https://www.mpagano.com/blog/?p=320

>>107896155
Can someone tell me what GURU openrc he's talking about? Can't find anything in sys-apps.

>>107918908
You want sys-apps/openrc-0.17

>>107892690
>Does anybody know what the hell happened to the Funtoo project

I found this on reddit (yes I know, can't help where Daniel posts):

https://old.reddit.com/r/Gentoo/comments/1jbq4i6/is_gentoo_becoming_less_popular/mpwgls6/

I'm the creator of Gentoo. I don't know if Gentoo is becoming less popular or not. I do know that the "landscape" of the Open Source community is far harsher than it was when Gentoo began. There is a lot of entitlement from users, things tend to be very transactional, and most people who are contributing to Open Source are full-time-employed at a tech job that uses the Open Source project in some way, or are unicorns that happen to have free time (this is becoming more and more rare.) When Gentoo started, tech wasn't as ubiquitous, and more of the work was done by people who were personally motivated to just do something cool. We would fire up our DSL modems after our real work, or maybe our real work as a sysadmin afforded us a bit of time to hack on things when all the systems were running smoothly. There were orders of magnitude more pure community resources for innovation. Now, tech startups are the new open source projects, and they come with millions of dollars of funding. It's a lot rougher out there now, and everyone feels it. I recently shut down my variant of Gentoo called Funtoo because it just wasn't fun to work in this more predatory environment. I will be back, just need to figure out how to smartly engage with this new reality.

>>107919288
And follow up reply:

>Oh, yes, definitely. And let's think about that a bit -- that means a lot more users of Linux distros, with a lower average technical skill level -- while nearly all the highly-skilled developers are being swept up by a tech job -- it actually makes the "divide" between users and developers worse. You have newbies on one side, and then very skilled professionals on the other side. It creates a weird "community".

>Tech, including Linux, is becoming more and more prevalent and mainstream in our world, touching all businesses, and thus there is big money in it. It used to be more about enthusiasts.

>This creates a set of unique challenges.

While I was there snooping around I discovered the Gentoo-sources maintainer posts on reddit constantly and has a 9-year old account for /r/gentoo and an 11 year old account for all his other crap. But he's hidden the posting history on both and he seems to cry a lot like a massive faggot.

>>107913858
>Wants to moderate the only person putting in effort
>It's a-okay with all the spammers adding nothing of value
Sure you're anti-censorship. I believe you.

>>107918908
>>107918952
Yes OpenRC 0.17 is what you want. Some people run 0.13. Both are from before that williamh idiot seized control of the project and started adding a bunch of bullshit. People run the old versions because he pushed updates multiple times that broke booting on many systems.

Pro-tip: If you run the older version you can mask opentmpfiles package. You do not need it at all and nothing will break. Will save you a lot of headaches and one less piece of shit from the systemd repo on your system.

I also suggest replacing udev with mdev.

God I forgot how shit the Gentoo forum's search features are now. I can't find the relevant thread but I did find this: https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-1148528-postdays-0-postorder-asc-start-0.html

Scroll down until you find proteusx's posts about running the older OpenRC and masking some things to keep the cancer off your system. Modern OpenRC is filled with problems. In addition to pulling in most everything systemd would normally pull-in he also replaced the init with a bunch of untested hacky bullshit. Old OpenRC uses sysvinit for the init and it's just a basic service manager. Rock solid and well tested. No issue with it being "out of date".

Once you have the old original OpenRC running you can get rid of a bunch of stuff. The tmpfiles from systemd-utils being the main concern. Nothing will break and you have one less thing to worry about as far as systemd b0rking early boot is concerned.

From there you can work on removing the rest of cancer they've insisted on pulling in over the last decade. There is no are no real "developers" working on Gentoo now despite the fact that the repo jannys call themselves that. Every last piece of software the old Gentoo developers were maintaining has been removed over the past decade or so. They've even stopped maintaining Genkernel.

Instead they now push up the Fedora kernel by default as a binary along with dracut for building your initramfs. They stick as close to Fedora+systemd as humanly possible and are constantly removing choice (despite their claims above about how they support it). Which means you now have to spend a bunch of time using portage to block, mask and remove this garbage. They don't even maintain eudev anymore. The kernel team has no idea wtf they're doing and they regularly break support for non-x86-64 CPUs even when patches are available. Then they turn around and patch the kernel with a bunch of needless shit like making it easier for a user to switch to systemd.

>>107918818
>>other than muh schizo
>>107903597

>>107919975
>using make+make install is schizophrenia
>he can't write a basic package manager in a weekend
Seems the meds you're so fond of have lowered your IQ by a large margin.

Reminder that while the Gentoo developers have been dropping every last project and blocking your ability to continue using them (e.g. eudev) without maintaining your own local overlay that the council has been very busy doing shit like creating a code of conduct and a massive team of bureaucrats to enforce it.

Check out "Community Relations" team sometime:

https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Project:ComRel

>Community Relations is responsible to assist in inter-developer and developer-user conflicts. While conflicts serious enough to require
>Community Relations involvement are rare, it's inevitable that developers and users will clash to varying degrees. It's essential that the
>Community Relations team find fair and impartial resolutions to inter-developer and developer-user problems. Although all situations differ and exercising good judgment is necessary, these guidelines are intended to define the most acceptable course of action.

>In addition, while Gentoo has an established CoC for years, it occasionally tends to be ignored. Via its Proctors subproject, one of the goals of Community Relations is to ensure that everyone involved sticks to it.

Ironically, all the ones that came here and flooded this thread have broken their own little Code of Conduct multiple times. They're more than happy to act like ass holes when they're shitting in everyone else's backyard. But if you dare to ask a question about their terrible engineering decisions or send a bug report they claim you're harassing them and ban you.

Same bullshit that ruined everything else that used to be fun and useful.

Thank you skizo and fuck spooks

>>107920403
skitzo is on the wrong side of history because he's looking into the mouth of a gifted horse (read as free shit software) instead of being thankful for it as a alternative option to the paywalled proprietary stuff
this particular skitzo is wrong on so many levels not worth even bothering to reply to
this skitzo fails to see the whole forest because of a particular tree
OP is a sperg trying to push his idealistic worldview onto reality

Since detractors have no argument but insist on replying anyway why don't we look at some changes that happened in Gentoo for the last 5 years. Where we can clearly see the agenda they're pushing through their own news updates. To save time we'll only go back to about 2020.

>January 2020
>Stable alpha keywords removed
https://www.gentoo.org/support/news-items/2020-01-23-stable-alpha-keywords-removed.html

Removed stable support for Alpha because they're lazy. You'll see this becoming a trend as we go forward.

>April 2020
>Deprecation of legacy X11 input drivers
https://www.gentoo.org/support/news-items/2020-04-03-deprecation-of-legacy-x11-input-drivers.html

Forced all users to use libinput by default. Claims "upstream" is no longer supporting things that worked for 35+ years. This change forced you to install udev on systems if you wanted working input devices.

>Desktop profile switching USE default to elogind
https://www.gentoo.org/support/news-items/2020-04-14-elogind-default.html

A week later they force (e)logind as the new default and drop even the option to use ConsoleKit2. Claims "upstream" no longer maintains consolekit. Despite it still being maintained by the BSDs and several other linux distros. Again forcing users into using a systemd tool with no warning.

>June 2020
>xorg-server dropping default suid
https://www.gentoo.org/support/news-items/2020-06-24-xorg-server-dropping-default-suid.html

Removed the option to use Xorg without logind. Claims suid is a "major security risk". The solution? Run a systemd tool as root. So much for choice.

>January 2021
>LibreSSL support discontinued
https://www.gentoo.org/support/news-items/2021-01-05-libressl-support-discontinued.html

Removed users ability to run LibreSSL. Claims upstream is not maintaining the project. Removes it entirely from the repos.

>>107920716
(cont.)
>January 2021
>New OpenRC Display Manager Initializer Scripts
https://www.gentoo.org/support/news-items/2021-01-30-display-manager-init.html

Suddenly we have all the developer resources in the world to maintain something ourselves when it allows us to support IBM/Red Hat cancer. I don't really care about this but it's worth noting that they're happy to give you a "choice" when it might encourage you to switch to whatever Red Hat is pushing this week.

>May 2021
>x86 support to be dropped from media-gfx/darktable
https://www.gentoo.org/support/news-items/2021-05-14-darktable-drop-x86.html

Support for a package running on x86 32-bit CPUs totally dropped because "upstream no maintain". Keeping the old working version in the repo for users on this arch? Nah, too much trouble. Wouldn't be "secure".

>July 2021
>systemd-tmpfiles replaces deprecated opentmpfiles
https://www.gentoo.org/support/news-items/2021-07-15-opentmpfiles-deprecation.html

Users on OpenRC forced into using yet another systemd project because the default is changed for "security" reasons. Even though they openly admit it isn't an issue for 99% of users. Same bug exists in the systemd-tmpfiles package. But I guess they don't care when it's coming from IBM instead of the FOSS community.

>August 2021
>eudev retirement on 2022-01-01
https://www.gentoo.org/support/news-items/2021-08-24-eudev-retirement.html

eudev is dropped for systemd's udev. Claim no one wants to maintain it anymore. Despite multiple other distros maintaining and using it to this day. Starting to see a pattern here...

>September 2021
>busybox removal from system set
https://www.gentoo.org/support/news-items/2021-09-24-busybox-removal-from-system-set.html

Busybox removed from @system set. Just in case you might have got the bright idea to run it instead of systemd. Breaks tons of systems in the wild that had been working fine for years without configuration changes.

>>107920786
(cont.)

>April 2022
>Migration to sys-apps/systemd-utils
https://www.gentoo.org/support/news-items/2022-04-19-systemd-utils.html

All packages that are split out of systemd's repo (udev, systemd-tmpfiles) are bundled into one massive package. Breaking all existing configurations for users not running systemd profiles and making it much harder to use the ::gentoo repos for anyone that had replaced them with the non-systemd (and forked) packaged that were removed from the repo the year before. Why bundle so many unrelated packages like this? There can only be one reason and it isn't "because it makes it easier on the devs".

>July 2022
>PipeWire sound server migration
https://www.gentoo.org/support/news-items/2022-07-29-pipewire-sound-server.html

Pipewire forced by default. Breaks all existing configurations for users that had been using JACK and/or plain ALSA before. They could have easily just added a new desktop profile or did this much cleaner without breaking existing configs. But this is modern Gentoo and no one knows wtf they're doing.

>December 2022
>/usr merge for systemd users
https://www.gentoo.org/support/news-items/2022-07-29-pipewire-sound-server.html

/usr merge forced on to those dumb enough to be using systemd profiles. OpenRC soon to follow I'm sure. So much for "choice". But we're lazy and don't want to do the minimal work to continue allowing this for systemd users.

>May 2023
>Plasma Profile to enable PipeWire, Wayland support
https://www.gentoo.org/support/news-items/2023-05-20-kde-pipewire-wayland.html

Wayland+pipewire forced as new default for KDE profiles. Breaking existing configurations.

>January 2024
>Separate /usr now requires an initramfs
https://www.gentoo.org/support/news-items/2024-01-05-usr-initramfs.html

Initramfs now required to use /usr on separate partitions. Breaking support for systems that had worked fine on all Linux distros going back to 1992. So much for "security" and "choice".

install Slackware

>>107920885
(cont.)
>January 2024
>Merging of installkernel-gentoo and installkernel-systemd
https://www.gentoo.org/support/news-items/2024-01-18-installkernel-merge.html

Merged two tools for no reason other than to make your life a living hell. This and several of the changes mentioned above made it impossible to block all systemd packages with a simple [-systemd] USE flag or through package masking. Broke all existing configurations. This caused them to issue 3 more news items related to GRUB and installkernel because it broke so much shit. I won't bother linking to them as they're all related. Check the archive if you care to read up on what all broke.

>May 2024
>media-video/wireplumber-0.5.2 may break on upgrade
https://www.gentoo.org/support/news-items/2024-05-06-wireplumber-0_5-bump.html

They were forced to issue this news item because of forcing the pipewire default which broke everything as expected just a short time later.

>Changes to dracut kernel module/microcode handling
https://www.gentoo.org/support/news-items/2024-05-17-dracut-ext-kmods.html

They were forced to issue this news item because they stopped maintaining Genkernel and forced dracut (IBM package) default when they switched to providing -bin kernels as default and stopped supporting automated building of custom kernels in the default profiles. This is the kind of high quality engineering you get when your "upstream" is Fedora.

>August 2024
>Gentoo drops IA-64 support
https://www.gentoo.org/support/news-items/2024-08-07-removal-ia64.html

Yet another non-x86-64 arch is dropped despite being maintained for decades with no issues. Thanks new defaults!

>September 2024
>Haskell destabilization
https://www.gentoo.org/support/news-items/2024-09-29-haskell-destabilization.html

We can no longer maintain haskell package support for...reasons lol.

>>107920982
(cont.)

>September 2025
>Stable sparc keywords removed
https://www.gentoo.org/support/news-items/2025-09-01-stable-sparc-keywords-removed.html

Another arch bites the dust. "We don't have enough man power". Meanwhile, must smaller projects with less people (NetBSD/OpenBSD) have no issues maintaining AND building natively on these archs. Rather strange they're having to drop support for so much right after changing all those defaults isn't it?

>Stable hppa keywords removed
https://www.gentoo.org/support/news-items/2025-09-01-stable-hppa-keywords-removed.html

Yet another arch bites the dust. Not enough man power to bump a few packages now and again or test them. Too busy tracking down code of conduct violators on the IRC channel I guess.

>sys-apps/openrc user services introduction
https://www.gentoo.org/support/news-items/2025-09-04-openrc-user-services.html

Forcing you to run a bunch of systemd trash on your OpenRC profile wasn't good enough. So we pushed out a bunch of untested shit in a new OpenRC version maintained by the same guy that's been pushing the /usr merge on the mailing lists for the last 3 years. We all know what's coming next.

>encfs is unmaintained
https://www.gentoo.org/support/news-items/2025-09-16-encfs-is-unmaintained.html

We care a lot about your security. So we've taken away your choice to run something that's worked fine for years again. Same pattern we've seen with a bunch of distros over the past few years. You don't have a "choice" you must migrate and we won't simply change the default and leave the old package alone in the repo. All unmaintained software must be PURGED!

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>>107921092
(cont.)
>October 2025
>Cache-enabled sync mirrors only for official repos
https://www.gentoo.org/support/news-items/2025-10-07-cache-enabled-mirrors-removal.html

Maintaining a cache for mirrors and repos we don't like is such a burden guys and we simply don't have enough money despite getting massive donations every year.

Sorry it'll make it harder to sync your system if you've been following all those repos that was hosting and maintaining all that software we removed. We assure you we didn't do this simply to make your life harder. :^)

>January 2026
>Desktop Profile to enable PipeWire support
https://www.gentoo.org/support/news-items/2026-01-15-desktop-profile-pipewire.html

We had to force a pipewire default in ALL desktop profile due to
>long standing complaints
from mystery users that somehow claim audio hasn't been working for them on the desktop profiles for the last 20+ years. Who are these people? No idea. Where did they complain? No idea. But we're going to make your life more difficult and break your existing configuration anyway if you're using ALSA directly, JACK or decided to stay on pulseaudio. We gotta set these defaults as closely to Fedora's after all.

Not these are just news items and the tip of the ice berg. I haven't even gotten into the changes that have been happening since they started offering binaries. Like the new -bin kernel they set as default. Which is using a config straight from Fedora.

Note I don't mind the binaries being an option. But they're changing tons of shit under the hood to conform to the defaults they've set within them. Which are all based on Fedora's of course (hope you like systemd bro).

There have also been many sneaky changes within many key packages themselves that have made it impossible to exclude certain software globally on your system with a one-line make.conf change. systemd being the prime offender.

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>>107920716
>>107920786
>>107920885
>>107920982
>>107921092
>>107921174
In short: We can see a clear pattern with news items alone. But this extends into all aspects of the project as this same thing has been happening in individual packages and it has ramped up hard in the past decade or so.

>stop maintaining projects written/forked by Gentoo itself
>replace them with IBM (mostly systemd/freedesktop) packages most users wanted to avoid in the first place (hence why there were so many forks like eudev)
>purge older working software from the official repos. Blame it on "security issues"
>Blame it on "upstream" and "lack of man power"
>Do it in the most annoying way possible which causes users that aren't using the defaults to constantly change their local config files and maintain their own local overlays
>Make it harder for these users to share their custom overlays with the community through various excuses like "no money to mirror them for you sorry"
>Ban anyone that complains or even asks about it using the Code of Conduct and the "Community Relations" team. Where all discussion, votes to ban and the entire process is hidden due to "privacy concerns"
>If anyone points out what is happening label them schizo/crazy/hater/luddite
>Flood all third party places where people discuss Gentoo with your jannys where you shut down all discussion (see: /r/linux, /r/gentoo, HN, and of course /g/)

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>>107921323
I wanted to add. You'll see the excuse of
>lack of man power
Used over and over again. But if you take the time to dig into the council, community relations team and the forums you'll notice that since 2020 they've added more users than ever. Even the Gentoo sub-reddit is about twice as active as it was 5 years ago. Yet they keep complaining they don't have enough people to maintain packages/ebuilds (which are easy as fuck to learn and maintain) or to maintain the various projects they've ditched like Genkernel.

If people were able to maintain this stuff for the past 15 years during the "dark ages" (2005-2018 or so) when many abandoned Gentoo and went elsewhere due to the snails pace of software entering stable and unstable branches how come they can't get newbies interested now? Where did all those long time users go?

Well it's obvious: They banned most everyone that was doing the actual work. People were trying to contribute and help. Their changes were not being accepted though because it didn't fit with the council's new agenda for the project. Which is sticking as close to Fedora (IBM/Red Hat) as possible. williamh refused to merge in a bug fix that was listed as a "security exploit" in one of the above news item. Yet he pushed untested changes to everyone's machine multiple times over the past 6 years or so. Then you go to the mailing list and you see he admits that HE ONLY OWNS ONE PC and can't properly test things because he'd rick b0rking it. Guess he's too dumb to figure out how VMs work and unwilling to fish machines to test on out of the local dumpster. He's too busy pushing for the /usr merge to deal with reviewing a 3 line .diff to patch that security hole.

They claim to have no time. Then squat on key packages. They claim no one wants to help yet they refuse to leave the council and changed the rules so they couldn't even be voted off of it.

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>>107921432
>williamh refused to merge in a bug fix that was listed as a "security exploit" in one of the above news item. Yet he pushed untested changes to everyone's machine multiple times over the past 6 years or so. Then you go to the mailing list and you see he admits that HE ONLY OWNS ONE PC and can't properly test things because he'd rick b0rking it.
Pic related.

This faggot squats on the OpenRC package. Broke users systems several times with untested changes pushed directly to the stable repo. Made multiple horrible changes to the point where lots of users are still running older versions from before he gained control over the project. Yet he doesn't own a second computer to do testing on, doesn't know how to use VMs and refuses to merge patches other people have sent in. Then he sits on a security patch for 2 years and uses it as justification to deprecate the package all together and replace it with something from the systemd repo.

Then you go to the dev mailing lists and he's doing shit like pic related where he's advocating for merged /usr that will break tons of systems in the wild. Systems being run by people that want to do various things that a split /usr directory allow like hosting it on a server on their LAN or allowing you to recover a broken system without having an initramfs. One could argue (I do) that a split /usr is also much more secure when configured correctly and being used in conjunction with a static /dev and kernel.

But I guess williamh wouldn't know about those kind of things because he's stuck developing on one laptop and has probably never used a system that isn't x86-64 or has more than one storage device.

The person maintaining the init for Gentoo doesn't even have his own home server. Let that sink in. These are the kind of "experts" dictating to you how you should be using your own computers.

>>107921538
Forgot link to mailing list thread. You can find it here: https://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-dev/570312c8.1469ca0a.30985.5db1@mx.google.com/

If I get some time I might pull up some more stuff like this from the mailing list. Since this group that took over and subverted the project talk pretty openly on it about how they plan to ruin it and take away user choice.

There is a massive thread on there from when they removed an entire forum because they were angry about the old timers teaching new users how to continue running the the distro without using all this cancer they started pushing as defaults. Using "politics" and "the mods refuse to enforce our new Code of Conduct" as their main excuse. In that thread there is an employee of Google/Alphabet openly bragging about how he "owned the Trump supporters" and why that was a great reason to stop allowing freedom of speech on a forum that had existed for over 20 years without issue.

>>107915526
alpine linux package manager is better
openwrt is using it
alpine was originally based on gentoo
void linux is peak tinkertranny the troons made the original developer to "disappear" and took over the entire project to control

>>107921763
alpine linux is infested with troons too. there's no escape

>>107921763
>falling for the tinkertranny newfag meme and blurting it out on a gentoo thread of all places

Ignorant retard here, why is a separate /usr better? the kernel and package manager are there, I don't see how it's beneficial to keep those separate when they're basically all the system

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>>107921763
>void
for me?
its

>>107921821
it's all infested with troons
>>107921839
not a meme when you have embedded hardware

>>107921878
>Ignorant retard here, why is a separate /usr better?
You can have important stuff to recover and manage the system in /, /bin, and /sbin. Which you can access even without an initramfs should /usr fail to mount during boot. You can mount /usr later in boot where with the merge it must be mounted in early boot. Should the system have issues of any kind during boot you can still recover, check logs and do all your admin stuff. It also allows you to have a static kernel that can not hot load modules. Thus being more secure.

/usr can be hosted anywhere. On another local drive. On a drive somewhere else on the network. On a thumb drive. /usr can also be shared between multiple systems if you desire.

The only advantage of doing the /usr merge is your developers can be just a bit more lazy than they are already.

For a distro claiming
>it's all about user choice
it's rather odd they'd want to go all-in on /usr merge. They've already made multiple changes in how they deal with the kernel to make it impossible to do stuff like the above.

The replacement for being able to recover the system that fails to properly boot for /usr merge systems is requiring you run an initramfs in your kernel. Something many people do not want. In gentoo they've already pretty much made that a hard requirement unless you go out of your way to avoid it and it's no longer a supported way of running a kernel.

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>>107902548
>>107909974
I skimmed through most of the thread, interesting read. Assuming both of these posts are from the same anon, I would like to know his opinion regarding the reticulum stack. Nomadnet always interested me, but I am always too pressed for time to engage.

>>107922127
Oh and for people that fear monger about
>security
so much they've already made it so having a static /dev is unsupported on all default profiles. They want to force you into using udev hot loading now.

Many people want to use static /dev because _it is more secure_. The only hardware that can interact with the kernel on a system with static /dev are things you're configured yourself. Which is great if you want to have say a secure server. Or a workstation where you do not want any faggot being able to plug a random thumb drive into it while it's running and having that thumb drive auto-load.

If you're interested someone still maintains a static /dev guide on the wiki: https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/User:NeddySeagoon/YeOldeGentoo_2021_Edition

Take note of what it excludes by default.

>>107922128
I haven't used it. It all sounded good until I saw the python 3 dependency. But I'll play with it before passing judgement.

In general though: All these "web 3.0" and "crypto coin censorship free network!" crap that's came out over the past few years are all garbage. IPFS was something I had a lot of hope for. But then the developers sold out and long standing bugs haven't been fixed in 6+ years now. They're all too busy working with big tech companies behind the scenes that wanted to use the protocol. Both of the implementations are horrible and it has managed to murder any router I've placed it behind. Then they tried to tie a crypto-coin to it as well. Shame.

We don't need any new type of censorship resistant protocol. We already had them built and finished in the 1970s and 1980s. It was called email, BBSs, fidonet, and NNTP (usenet). Store-and-forward protocols where once something was out in the wild it couldn't be taken down because it was being hosted on so many systems. At most all we need to do is bring some of these up to date to support sending more data at one time. That way we wouldn't have to break large files into smaller archives like the warez groups have to do on usenet. We can use encryption over these protocols already. For years e-mail could be sent totally anonymously because there were tons of anonymous e-mail servers that would route any message sent to them without verification. The only reason we don't have this stuff anymore is because the big tech companies like google, microsoft and others took over the entire protocol and blacklisted anything outside of their own servers. Well that and the usenet jannys deciding to no longer allow truly anonymous users on to the news servers. We didn't have jannys censoring everything on these networks either. The tech is old, it works and we could be using it right now. It'd be easy to add any quality of life features we wanted.

>>107920269
>just write your own package manager when a dozen of them exist and nothing is wrong with portage to begin with
MEDS NOW tinker tranny

>just do everything manually
MEDS NOW tinker tranny