CCFC Feedback Chat
15 January 2020
πNITROπ converted a basic group to this supergroup «CCFC open, honest discussion Chat»
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21:05
πNITROπ
hello
C
21:05
Citrus DogMom Corkie
I just wanna see the ending to whatever is going on tbh
21:05
I saw like 1 tweet days ago and have no clue wassup
R
21:06
R Ξ Z / Ξ T H
In reply to this message
Once we finalize our statement you can review that to get caught up, or follow this chat.
C
21:07
Citrus DogMom Corkie
Ima just folliw the chat cause im completely neutral on this other than finding it a little sketch about the 5k thing
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21:07
ππ£ππ€ππππ ππ£π Γ
Hi there. Just want to make sure that everything is square and clear regarding the story and statement. I'll be around.
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21:08
πNITROπ
the con have been going through changes of structure good and bad, we as a team are trying to work things out. any feed back would be great =)
πNITROπ pinned this message
J
21:08
Jake Maxwell (UltraPup) (over it)
In reply to this message
Sure. What have you done officially to help facilitate that?
S
21:08
Spazzy the candy cat
From what little I know it seems money management need to overseen better maybe have a financial advisor?
J
21:09
Jake Maxwell (UltraPup) (over it)
And what steps has the con taken to ensure that confidential information doesn't leak? Or board meetings being listened into by non board members.
21:09
Serious question.
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21:09
ππ£ππ€ππππ ππ£π Γ
In reply to this message
Money management was certainly one of the issues. We did not have an official treasurer.
C
21:09
Citrus DogMom Corkie
Ngl i didnt even know who half the GOHs were. There was like 9 π¬
S
21:09
Saphy~
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S
21:10
It would save money
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21:10
ππ£ππ€ππππ ππ£π Γ
In reply to this message
This was already in the plan for 2021.
S
J
21:10
Jake Maxwell (UltraPup) (over it)
Also what is the cons stance on nazis on staff and attending?
C
21:10
Citrus DogMom Corkie
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21:10
Whoa wat
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J
21:10
Jake Maxwell (UltraPup) (over it)
Open honset discussion right?
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21:10
ππ£ππ€ππππ ππ£π Γ
In reply to this message
Many of the staff were dragged in last-minute.
Di
21:10
Drinz is single and ready to fucking cry
In reply to this message
Way too many GOH's. The con has announced that there will only be three next year if the con continues.
C
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21:10
π» spunky (they/them)
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J
21:11
Jake Maxwell (UltraPup) (over it)
Why was a DJ brought in to save the con.
C
21:11
Citrus DogMom Corkie
Ive worked for a few first years and they all didnt go above like 3
S
Z
21:11
Zerotheliger is typing...
As staff for the local stuff. Im not gonna lie. Alot of stuff leaked out. Its been spilling out into chats i help with.
J
21:11
Jake Maxwell (UltraPup) (over it)
Why were payments missed to the hotel and GOH we really should get all the answers.
S
21:11
Spazzy the candy cat
Like 2 or three is plenty for a small con
Z
21:11
Zerotheliger is typing...
Theres alot that ive been trying to unpack
Di
21:11
Drinz is single and ready to fucking cry
In reply to this message
Damn, I need a sticker of this. Been too much Nazi shit happening lately and I need to make my stance clear.
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Z
21:12
Zerotheliger is typing...
Im york staff by the way.
C
21:12
Citrus DogMom Corkie
I feel bad for whoever had to throw down 5k to save the con because they didnt plan out payments :c
R
21:12
R Ξ Z / Ξ T H
In reply to this message
We learn from our mistakes. We realized that having more GOHs could prevent us from doing our best with them.
S
J
Z
21:12
Zerotheliger is typing...
And yes im quite aware of alot of the things that have been talked about.
S
21:12
Spazzy the candy cat
That person should be paid back asap
C
21:12
Year 1 and yall were $5000 in debt
J
21:12
Jake Maxwell (UltraPup) (over it)
What steps have you taken since to actually ensure this.
Maxie Wusky removed Maxie Wusky
J
C
21:13
Citrus DogMom Corkie
In reply to this message
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C
21:13
Citrus DogMom Corkie
Ehat
M
21:13
Maxim
In reply to this message
I have to say this was an issue when I was helping to tear down after the con. Several times ran into hushed conversations. Huddled up groups talking animatedly. I felt like I was kind of in the wrong place and had to beat feet several times.
I almost left much earlier than I did.
I almost left much earlier than I did.
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21:13
πNITROπ
This is cinnamon typing on Nitro's computer since my phone is about to die. Simply put, a lot of the mistakes we've made have been because of our inexperience dealing with conventions. That isn't an excuse for everything. But we get it, we made a lot of mistakes.
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J
21:13
Jake Maxwell (UltraPup) (over it)
In reply to this message
Yeah but when people stepped into help with experience did you listen?
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21:13
πNITROπ
i want to be able to address issues one at a time here though. if i cant get to everyone it's because there's a lot of people here atm
S
21:14
Saphy~
In reply to this message
First, turn on 10 second slow mode in this chat. That will help you a lot ^~^
Z
R
21:14
R Ξ Z / Ξ T H
We will get to everybody, just standby as we address them
S
C
J
21:14
Jake Maxwell (UltraPup) (over it)
Cool recap of issues.
How much in debt
Nazi furs
You say you learned what have you actually done
Did you listen to outsude help
Release the numbers.
How much in debt
Nazi furs
You say you learned what have you actually done
Did you listen to outsude help
Release the numbers.
S
21:14
Spazzy the candy cat
In reply to this message
I do as well tbh but it's a good idea for this tone
Di
21:14
Drinz is single and ready to fucking cry
In reply to this message
Lots of GOHs means lots more attendees. I know of plenty of CCFC congoers who came specifically for one or two GOHs and ended up having a great con outside of that. Unfortunately, a first year con's budget isn't likely to really allow for that kind of spending and planning. It was more work than a first year con can handle. For a con with more time to fundraise and plan, it would be a fantastic way to get a ton of attendance early on, but CCFC sadly didn't get enough time to fundraise and plan.
S
21:14
Saphy~
In reply to this message
Group your questions and statements together in one paragraph, that helps you double check what you're posting before needlessly doing so
C
21:15
Citrus DogMom Corkie
In reply to this message
Didnt really work though and NOT something a con should plan for their first year. Budgeting seems to not even have been looked at
S
Lifty πΊ joined group by link from πNITROπ
Di
S
21:17
Spazzy the candy cat
Tbh I jsut want a fun con to go-to
J
21:17
Jake Maxwell (UltraPup) (over it)
How much work did nitro actually contribute to this year's success?
S
21:18
Spazzy the candy cat
Some times it's best to wait to put on a con till you have all your ducks in a line
Di
21:18
Drinz is single and ready to fucking cry
In reply to this message
I was talking to a lot of attendees. You'd be surprised how many were there just for Kage or Odin. I still don't think it was a great idea, but it's understandable that it could be used to pump up the year one numbers.
S
21:18
Spazzy the candy cat
Perhaps post pone the next con a year
Sylox (busy) joined group by link from πNITROπ
J
21:18
Jake Maxwell (UltraPup) (over it)
And is he willing to acknowledge those who helped the weekend of and more so what is the plan moving forward to ensure things dont leak. Cause right now I know allot of people have 0 trusr in you guys
C
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21:19
π» spunky (they/them)
In reply to this message
yeah, and i know a lot of folks were excited about Xusho too
M
21:19
Maxim
In reply to this message
Serious question: Is this about who gets to take credit? About how much recognition you were given this year? I could understand if you felt that your contributions weren't appreciated.
S
21:19
Saphy~
What is CCFC going to do in regards to the multiple public statements that have been issued on official accounts, about matters that are inappropriate for that format. How is CCFC going to prevent further embarrassments of that nature in the future, and what steps will they be doing to prevent such actions
S
21:19
Spazzy the candy cat
Do you all have ahead of PR
J
21:19
Jake Maxwell (UltraPup) (over it)
In reply to this message
It's more so about what steps are being taken to put people in proper roles.
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21:20
πNITROπ
We are looking into how to handle issues of debt with the convention. We need to get all of our eggs in a basket with how to go about that. We are trying to handle everything one step at a time but right now we are getting bombarded. We made staffing mistakes, and some of us did not listen to good advice which was a huge mistake.
S
21:20
Saphy~
In reply to this message
As an event runner with over a decade of experience, I can tell you that your mileage may vary π
S
21:20
Spazzy the candy cat
Mayeh have a HR perosn too
Might help
Might help
R
21:20
R Ξ Z / Ξ T H
In reply to this message
There isn't much of a step to be had here - the decision to not have as many GOHs for year 2 is just that.
C
21:20
Citrus DogMom Corkie
Should there even be a ccfc for 2021 with the con being in debt already
J
21:20
Jake Maxwell (UltraPup) (over it)
So I'm seeing allot of statements and not allot of actual plans.
S
Di
21:20
Drinz is single and ready to fucking cry
In reply to this message
Agreed. I'm more disappointed than most with the budgeting, since I saw a lot of behind the scenes stuff. When CCFC had the charity picnic, it was phenomenal, and I thought more like that could be done to raise funds for a successful con, but that was all that they did to get more funds, other than registration and donations, as far as I could tell.
L
21:21
Lifty πΊ
In reply to this message
Legit good idea: have a Chief of Staff to address staff concerns.
S
S
21:21
Spazzy the candy cat
Yay I had valid an good ideas :3
J
21:21
Jake Maxwell (UltraPup) (over it)
What actual plans are being put in place. Like concrete plans.
M
21:21
Maxim
In reply to this message
That is a huge leadership challenge. Knowing who is good at what and putting them in the proper positions to succeed is a basic but difficult thing to do.
S
21:21
Sylox (busy)
And is it someone who is qualified? No offense, but as someone with experience in PR, you guys had some of the worst I've ever seen for a convention.
S
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21:22
πNITROπ
In reply to this message
we want to restructure the organization of staff and change our process of interviewing/deciding who we put in.
Di
21:22
Drinz is single and ready to fucking cry
In reply to this message
Most cons are given two years to plan. This con was given one. That was a major mistake, and possibly the worst one out of them all.
Is that airing dirty laundry? I don't think that's too damaging to the con's reputation, but it's an important factor for attendees to understand as they ask questions.
Is that airing dirty laundry? I don't think that's too damaging to the con's reputation, but it's an important factor for attendees to understand as they ask questions.
R
21:22
R Ξ Z / Ξ T H
In reply to this message
Every first year convention has finance issues, some more than others. We are working our way back to ensure debts do get paid off, through many channels including our sales portal.
We want to ensure the convention can thrive as needed, and having a year two is definitely something we want to make happen.
We want to ensure the convention can thrive as needed, and having a year two is definitely something we want to make happen.
J
21:22
Jake Maxwell (UltraPup) (over it)
The last thing I'll leave you with is the most important question. I want to hear from nitro not cinnamon. Since he is the one still calling the shots and unwilling to give up power. What is nitros plan.
L
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S
21:23
Saphy~
In reply to this message
Most major events have a rolling 6 month planning period. New events over the past three years have had 8-12 months on average. So, this isnt correct either
C
21:23
Citrus DogMom Corkie
In reply to this message
WANT but is it NEEDED. Being in debt year 1 doesnt seem too common for conventions and its honestly worrying. Remember dashcon?
Di
21:23
Drinz is single and ready to fucking cry
In reply to this message
Definitely. If he (and you!) makes it to any other east coast cons, I know I'll be excited to see you again!
The GOH choices were, as far as I can tell, pretty good. Mostly. I can only remember three of them, though, so maybe not.
The GOH choices were, as far as I can tell, pretty good. Mostly. I can only remember three of them, though, so maybe not.
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21:23
πNITROπ
In reply to this message
that is understandable, and i will talk to him about that when i get a chance to
S
S
S
21:24
Saphy~
In reply to this message
Someone else using the former chairman and current presidents username to discuss issues in a chat about an event they technically run is inappropriate, and just furthers the sentiment of the issue. This event and the people involved really need to get it together
S
21:24
Spazzy the candy cat
I remember 4 of them
J
21:24
Jake Maxwell (UltraPup) (over it)
In reply to this message
Can't really be an open and honest convo without the guy in charge.
Di
21:24
Drinz is single and ready to fucking cry
In reply to this message
On a similar note, can we talk about people who took credit where it wasn't due? Loveless did a fucking LOT of that both during the con and after. He wasn't even AT the convention when it happened, and he talks like it's his personal accomplishment!
R
21:25
R Ξ Z / Ξ T H
In reply to this message
We aren't even two weeks out from the convention, so we are still planning to decide the best solution here. We have been paying off debts slowly as discussed as we can, and are still planning channels to handle the rest.
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21:25
π» spunky (they/them)
In reply to this message
not the first time i've heard these two cons compared.
S
21:25
Saphy~
In reply to this message
I would be embarrassed to wear CCFC as a badge, it was a mess.
C
Z
21:25
Zerotheliger is typing...
My biggest problems were the fact nobody on staff could answer questions. Or i had many staff members giving me different answers and i couldnt get a straight answer till i went and did the thing my self
The fact that staff members were told to be as blunt as possible to talk about armed security from secret service being there due to an over lapping event. And one of the staff came out making it sound like an active shooter situtation was going on. Which scared the fuck outta me.
The reports of guests of honors being bumped off to make budget and staff having to sacrifice rooms. Why wasnt staff aware of how much the fees were gonna cost ahead of time?
Schedules werent being kept correctly and nothing lined up half the time on the boards or on the website.
The fact that staff members were told to be as blunt as possible to talk about armed security from secret service being there due to an over lapping event. And one of the staff came out making it sound like an active shooter situtation was going on. Which scared the fuck outta me.
The reports of guests of honors being bumped off to make budget and staff having to sacrifice rooms. Why wasnt staff aware of how much the fees were gonna cost ahead of time?
Schedules werent being kept correctly and nothing lined up half the time on the boards or on the website.
S
21:26
Spazzy the candy cat
In reply to this message
This a veeeery good point. Having all staff on at some point to answer questions an all. Plus as he prez of the con he is the person that is ultimately accountable yeah?... I don't know how alot things work just trying help
C
21:26
Citrus DogMom Corkie
I dont understand why there wasnt an excessive spreadsheet of ALL the expenses
L
21:26
Lifty πΊ
One other suggestion to bring up is to be aware of other conventions happening and when they're happening. Ane critical mistake was stepping up the marketing 100 days from contime, and blowing off every furry event in May (when there were 5 furcons that month), Anthrocon, BronyCon, and focusing the marketing on whatever was left to run.
R
21:26
R Ξ Z / Ξ T H
In reply to this message
Loveless is no longer affiliated with the convention, and hasn't been for a few weeks. The issues and complaints we received highly outweighed the benefit of having him on staff, and we promptly let him go.
C
21:27
Citrus DogMom Corkie
Rooms for staff cost x.
This costs y.
This costs z
It seems like they looked at a lump sum of money and went: OK LETS THROW SOME HERE AND THEN HERE ANDDDDD HERE!
This costs y.
This costs z
It seems like they looked at a lump sum of money and went: OK LETS THROW SOME HERE AND THEN HERE ANDDDDD HERE!
Jake Maxwell (UltraPup) (over it) removed Jake Maxwell (UltraPup) (over it)
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R
21:27
R Ξ Z / Ξ T H
One thing I would like to say is try and hold off for now with your questions, unless urgent, as our statement should answer a lot of these for you. Then if anything needs to be elaborated on or cleared up we can do so
21:27
We just don't want to sound like a broken record
S
21:27
Spazzy the candy cat
In reply to this message
Yes good point. Advertising your con is very important
Z
21:28
Zerotheliger is typing...
In reply to this message
Also the status on people being paid back as well.
Honestly i felt like everyone was under way too much pressure.
Honestly i felt like everyone was under way too much pressure.
Di
21:28
Drinz is single and ready to fucking cry
In reply to this message
The main PR guy was charismatic and honestly really great to have on the staff... but he was young. Like, he had his 19th birthday during the con itself. He wasn't ready to be the main PR of the con, but as far as I could tell, there wasn't anyone else to fill the role.
Seems the guy aligned himself with some less than great folks since then. Damn shame, that. I liked him a lot.
Seems the guy aligned himself with some less than great folks since then. Damn shame, that. I liked him a lot.
S
C
21:28
Citrus DogMom Corkie
In reply to this message
Isnt that the whole point of this chat though? Because a statement isnt going to cover it all
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21:28
πNITROπ
We appreciate the feedback and criticism, there have been a lot of mistakes along the way. We will need time to address everyone's concerns here
S
Z
21:29
Zerotheliger is typing...
In reply to this message
The majority of some of these problems seem to stem from staff being overworked or the communication was bad. And that people didnt read fine prints.
R
21:29
R Ξ Z / Ξ T H
In reply to this message
Yes, but it will cover most of it, and a lot of what was asked so far will be covered. It won't be a brief statement
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C
21:29
Citrus DogMom Corkie
And a LOT of the questions werent even answered or acknowledged?
S
21:29
Spazzy the candy cat
In reply to this message
Yeaaaah I don't get the idea of waiting an open discussion is better than balnket statement I think. Also I think it's called a blanket statement
S
21:29
Sylox (busy)
Do you all have a dedicated finance person? If not please consider getting one in order to avoid future financial pitfalls or unforeseen issues.
Di
21:30
Drinz is single and ready to fucking cry
In reply to this message
Wait hold the fuck
Nitro is still in a position of power after all of this?
Don't get me wrong, I love the guy and want to party and cuddle with him plenty, but Jesus Christ he shouldn't still be in a position of authority here!
Nitro is still in a position of power after all of this?
Don't get me wrong, I love the guy and want to party and cuddle with him plenty, but Jesus Christ he shouldn't still be in a position of authority here!
Z
21:30
Zerotheliger is typing...
In reply to this message
Nitro as a friend could you please let us know whats going on with the things i talked about.
C
21:30
Citrus DogMom Corkie
I would probably postpone ccfc 2021 until the debt is paid off and yall fix your finances.. :/ sorry but youll be the next rainfurrest when all the hotels say "fuck no we dont want them if thry cant pay us on time"
L
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Di
21:31
Drinz is single and ready to fucking cry
In reply to this message
During the initial financial situation I got serious Dashcon vibes. I was scared of going down in history next to it. Still am, kind of.
M
21:31
Maxim
In reply to this message
I think there were a lot of things they didnt know that they didnt know.
It's a first year event. People are going to make mistakes and learn from them. It's kind of a human thing. Nobody's perfect.
Ill use Kage as an example. Hes the chairman of the second largest con in the world and openly admits he is now banned from making unilateral decisions for every department under him due to his bright ideas creating problems. No one is infallible.
We need to be understanding that what may be obvious to one person may not be to another.
It's a first year event. People are going to make mistakes and learn from them. It's kind of a human thing. Nobody's perfect.
Ill use Kage as an example. Hes the chairman of the second largest con in the world and openly admits he is now banned from making unilateral decisions for every department under him due to his bright ideas creating problems. No one is infallible.
We need to be understanding that what may be obvious to one person may not be to another.
C
21:31
Citrus DogMom Corkie
Maybe even do ccfc 2022 instead.
BM
21:31
Border-Aussie Midnight
In reply to this message
I currently know that there were issues however at this time it is being worked out. As these things take time and as a reminder it is now 2 weeks after the convention so there is no realistic way to come up with a formulated budget plan.
S
R
21:31
R Ξ Z / Ξ T H
In reply to this message
This is Nitro's convention. It's his event. He started it from the ground up and got it on the feet it stands on today. While there have been issues along the way, and we know that, removing him from his role isn't fair to him, nor anybody attending.
S
BM
21:32
Border-Aussie Midnight
Lets cut some slack here, yes things went sideways and it is greatly appreciated that we are all sitting here coming up with issues and few solutions to problems.
C
21:32
Citrus DogMom Corkie
In reply to this message
This isnt just an "oopsie poopsie mistakeroo!" This is a serious failure that needs to be addressed by the staff members of this con and not shoved under a blank text wall called a "statement"
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21:32
ππ£ππ€ππππ ππ£π Γ
In reply to this message
He's the founder and we all thanked him for his ideas and the opportunity but without me and Ultra the convention simply would not have run.
R
21:33
R Ξ Z / Ξ T H
In reply to this message
This has been discussed, however from the current perspective 2021 is possible.
21:33
Again, we are barely 2 weeks out, so we cant say anything definite right now
S
21:33
Sylox (busy)
If you were smart
C
21:33
Citrus DogMom Corkie
I would again, hold off until yall get your shit straight. Especially, again, being in debt already for year 1
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21:33
πNITROπ
In reply to this message
we understand that we've made a lot of serious mistakes. Again though, it's going to take us some time to work through everything. It's not an excuse, but we will need to work through things at a steady pace
R
21:33
R Ξ Z / Ξ T H
We haven't had time to let things settle down so that we can figure out what to do.
S
21:33
Spazzy the candy cat
Well I'm getting anexitty now so imma book it for awhile
S
21:34
Sylox (busy)
you'd take 2021 off and come back in 2022 once your finances are in order
R
21:34
R Ξ Z / Ξ T H
In reply to this message
Correct. You guys did help massively, but he still started this event, and we aren't here to take that from him.
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21:34
ππ£ππ€ππππ ππ£π Γ
In reply to this message
The feet that it stands on are broken, and shakier still after what has happened tonight
M
21:34
Maxim
In reply to this message
I'm not making a distinction between the degree of mistakes made. Some were critical and my cause the con to die. I dont think that's being swept under a rug.
S
21:34
Spazzy the candy cat
This is stressing me out an I. Still sick so imma chill in more stress free chats sorry y'all. Ping me when more information is out
C
BM
21:34
Border-Aussie Midnight
Also its two weeks, I can tell you that some interpersonal issues have went on to the point of it causing more harm then good. With a few members lashing out directly at staff for which is unacceptable. Sure its easy to point fingers but surely seems to be difficult to have a productive chat rather then a flame war.
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21:34
ππ£ππ€ππππ ππ£π Γ
In reply to this message
No one is denying that he founded it
Di
21:34
Drinz is single and ready to fucking cry
In reply to this message
He's still talking in the chat like he is. Or, at least, he was earlier today.
Also, what benefit did he have? Me and literally five different people confronted him multiple times about his actions and he showed zero remorse and even less willingness to change anything! Honestly, I feel like he's one of the major reasons the con fell apart! He's power hungry, and when he was denied the authority he craved, he did what he could to tear the con apart!
Also, what benefit did he have? Me and literally five different people confronted him multiple times about his actions and he showed zero remorse and even less willingness to change anything! Honestly, I feel like he's one of the major reasons the con fell apart! He's power hungry, and when he was denied the authority he craved, he did what he could to tear the con apart!
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21:35
πNITROπ
In reply to this message
We don't know how he got in, but we removed him asap once we found out.
R
21:35
R Ξ Z / Ξ T H
In reply to this message
Again, a possibility, but we know as of now what needs to happen, however discussing whether or not 2021 can happen is a conversation we haven't even gotten a chance to have yet.
Di
21:36
Drinz is single and ready to fucking cry
In reply to this message
Way understaffed. I was a volunteer and I was worked like staff. We just didn't have the people to make things run smoothly.
21:36
In reply to this message
Thank you, that means a lot.
Though with the earlier banning incident, I question if it's really unknown how he got back in. :/
Though with the earlier banning incident, I question if it's really unknown how he got back in. :/
R
21:36
R Ξ Z / Ξ T H
In reply to this message
We are aware of this, and are working to ensure it doesn't happen again in the future. This was one of the bigger complaints we received
C
21:37
Citrus DogMom Corkie
So whats with loveless. Wasnt he the chair for like a day or 2?
R
C
21:37
Citrus DogMom Corkie
So who was he
?
21:37
ππ£ππ€ππππ ππ£π Γ
In reply to this message
I am typing up a statement that clarifies what he did to me personally.
BM
21:38
Border-Aussie Midnight
I've gotten the following from just reading the CCFC SFW Chat
Staffing issues happened, they are being addressed
Security Team (?) was an issue, that was addressed
Financial issues, are being addressed
Restructuring is happening?
Obviously Loveless is now removed, which was a decision accordingly just posted.
Staffing issues happened, they are being addressed
Security Team (?) was an issue, that was addressed
Financial issues, are being addressed
Restructuring is happening?
Obviously Loveless is now removed, which was a decision accordingly just posted.
C
21:38
Citrus DogMom Corkie
Cause i swear he was staff at one point but i could barely follow the chat.
M
21:38
Maxim
In reply to this message
Communicatin on volunteers was poor to me. There didnt seem to be anyone handling just volunteers. It was a hodge podge of people on staff and a lot of left not knowing right hand.
R
21:38
R Ξ Z / Ξ T H
Loveless was the conventions GM. Lots of confidential information was released by him, a large portion of it was false. Along with many other personal attacks he performed on our staff members, we do not affiliate with him.
C
NOT A PIGEON (They/them) joined group by link from πNITROπ
S
21:38
Sylox (busy)
In reply to this message
If someone is doing a terrible job, you don't continuously pat their ass and tell them its okay. You remove them from the situation. No one is denying its his convention, we're just saying he's culpable for alot of the issues here.
L
?
21:39
πNITROπ
In reply to this message
You're right, we need to talk to him and address his own issues with how he handled things. He made mistakes, we don't deny that
BM
21:39
Border-Aussie Midnight
Which was done already Sylox
M
BM
21:39
Border-Aussie Midnight
As noted in the previous statement
S
21:40
Saphy~
Midnight what staff position were you in again?
C
21:40
Citrus DogMom Corkie
A con should be put on unless it has everything it needs. Staff, money, hotel, etc
Di
21:40
Drinz is single and ready to fucking cry
In reply to this message
He's the Founder, but after all the questionable decisions, I still don't think he should be Chair. President should be a role for talking to other chairpeople, and for being the face of the con. It serves an important role, sure, but it's not a role that should be making the decisions that Nitro unfortunately has shown himself to be inadequately prepared to handle.
BM
21:40
Border-Aussie Midnight
Wow, Lets not Saphy
S
21:40
Sylox (busy)
oh
L
21:40
Lifty πΊ
I also believe that while staff is being restructured, there needs to be a concrete chain of command for every department, from volunteers all the way up to the Board.
R
21:40
R Ξ Z / Ξ T H
Midnight is a consultant for the convention at the time.
S
21:41
Saphy~
How's that working out for you guys
R
21:41
R Ξ Z / Ξ T H
Great, he has been genuinely a lot of help.
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BM
21:42
Border-Aussie Midnight
There is a lot wrong, anyone can see that reading through the SFW chat.
S
21:42
Saphy~
I think only time will tell
O
21:42
Ocean
Catch me up to speed, what's going on here? I thought ccfc was okay.
Di
21:42
Drinz is single and ready to fucking cry
In reply to this message
The right-wing staff folks calling the now ex-chair a slur sure didn't help.
R
21:42
R Ξ Z / Ξ T H
In reply to this message
These kind of comments aren't really something we want to be encouraging here.
L
21:43
And offering suggestions for future events.
?
?
21:43
π» spunky (they/them)
In reply to this message
if Nitro is still conchair next year, i know several folks that won't come back
S
21:44
Saphy~
In reply to this message
Then let's bring it back down to earth a little bit. We all want to be positive, but making excuses or celibrating little victories isn't going to set the event in the right direction. The issues need to be focused on, and honestly you guys really need to reach out to someone who has event experience to help you.
?
BM
21:44
Border-Aussie Midnight
But there are many trying to rectify the issues accordingly, myself included by offering solutions to known issues. Also I believe that several of those whom are restructuring the convention are working with several other conventions as well to right the issues at hand as well.
R
21:44
R Ξ Z / Ξ T H
Your comments on nitro are correct, the roles he had were mismanaged. Nitro unfortunately gave himself too much to manage, and we are all entirely aware of that. This is why I, and many others pushed to ensure that Nitro did what he needed to do in his title, and not have extra duties that be may not be able to uphold.
?
21:44
ππ£ππ€ππππ ππ£π Γ
In reply to this message
They had someone with event experience. They let him go.
O
21:44
Ocean
In reply to this message
Isn't nitro the one who couldn't be reached throughout the event by several presumed GOH and staff members who needed answers?
R
21:45
R Ξ Z / Ξ T H
As of now, we are getting those roles to the proper people, to ensure they can be properly managed
?
21:45
π» spunky (they/them)
In reply to this message
he couldn't/wouldn't respond to my tg messages.
S
R
21:45
R Ξ Z / Ξ T H
Again we are only two weeks out, and havent had the time to dig into who can effectively do that.
O
L
BM
21:46
Border-Aussie Midnight
The con chair has many roles however I had no issue running in to Nitro in the hallways more then several times. Why TG Him?
Di
21:46
Drinz is single and ready to fucking cry
In reply to this message
I'll vouch for Midnight. He's good folks. He wasn't in an official position, but like me, he contributed to the (I hesitate to say) success of the con.
S
21:46
Saphy~
You keep saying we are only two weeks out from the end of the last event, but in that time how many staff members has this event lost? A chairman even?
R
21:47
R Ξ Z / Ξ T H
In reply to this message
This is also an issue we have been aware of and are working to ensure gets handled. He had too much on his plate and that prevented him from doing everything he needed to.
S
21:47
Sylox (busy)
In reply to this message
Because not everyone runs into the con chair several times like you did OR they were away from conspace and needed something answered
?
21:47
π» spunky (they/them)
In reply to this message
reciepts. he usually was busy. and that allowed a note for later.
?
21:47
πNITROπ
In reply to this message
We understand this, which is why we are looking into restructuring staff organization and changing how we manage staff.
S
21:47
Saphy~
In reply to this message
I don't have a lot of faith in your statements, you've made some today that I don't agree with. We will have to agree to disagree
BM
21:48
Border-Aussie Midnight
Yes, restructuring means things are moved around some are let go others leave. However information is just hearsay until confirmed.
O
21:48
Ocean
I think 30 second time out between messages is a bit much, can we turn that down to 10 please
R
21:48
R Ξ Z / Ξ T H
In reply to this message
5, to be exact. These issues stem from the disorganization and false information being spread, hence why we are tying to restructure this as fast as possible to ensure everybody is in a happier position
S
21:48
Saphy~
In reply to this message
This is good, this is a step in the right direction and I encourage it
C
21:49
Citrus DogMom Corkie
From what im hearing, it isnt from the false information, its how yall ran it
S
21:49
Saphy~
In reply to this message
I don't see "false information" being the reason this event is having staffing issues. I know that locally you may feel it has impact because of anti and his altright morons, but from an outside perspective looking in, no one cares about that
R
BM
21:50
Border-Aussie Midnight
My statements are nothing more then observation and distillation of information as from my perspective and until released officially needs to stay as such. To sum it up one could call it an informed opinion until further discussed in a more official capacity if I'm asked to.
S
21:50
Saphy~
It's important that you understand that, and don't hinge on it moving forward, because removing problem staff isn't going to magically make this event work. Those mistakes will continue to exist in the background. So less focus on battling misinformation, and more focus on putting positive information out to the public
R
21:51
R Ξ Z / Ξ T H
In reply to this message
We do have more than enough reason to believe the lies that were spread around staff and attendees caused a large amount of the issues, but you are correct, mismanagement was a large portion of it too.
L
Di
21:52
Drinz is single and ready to fucking cry
In reply to this message
We can agree to disagree, but would you mind making a note of which of my statements you do and don't agree with? I'd like to review them later and possibly discuss them with you when we're all in a less heightened state. Right now I'm focused on the convention itself, but I'd certainly like to take this opportunity to learn more from someone who is more experienced with these things than I am. I try to think of these things as a learning experience when possible so that I don't make the same mistake multiple times.
?
21:52
π» spunky (they/them)
In reply to this message
oooh, i'd like some more tea on that please, (pms would be fine)
S
21:54
Saphy~
I think one of the biggest issues to address and tackle is the elephant in the room, nitro. It's admirable to make efforts to correct behaviour, I can attest, I've been in the same situation. Working on responsibilities, deconsolidation of power and override abilities, reinforcing the importance of professional communication standards (not letting someone else type on his account, for one) and deligation of tasks to keep his workload light, would be a great start that several people, his supporters included, would both appreciate and benefit from
21:54
And for fuck sake stop releasing "public statements" on letterhead regarding internal issues
BM
21:55
Border-Aussie Midnight
Ok, so a think tank can happen later...
Were there issues, yes...yes there were
However a lot of things went right given all the issues at hand, surely many things also went wrong and for that we call these learning experiences at least I do.
Were there issues, yes...yes there were
However a lot of things went right given all the issues at hand, surely many things also went wrong and for that we call these learning experiences at least I do.
O
21:55
Ocean
Sticker
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π, 51.7 KB
L
21:55
Lifty πΊ
I would also add to that to be more transparent with the rest of convention staff and gather their input.
M
21:55
Maxim
In reply to this message
The reality is the con chair shouldn't need to be contacted directly by attendees. There should be a clear chain of command in that regard with the chair only dealing with the most substantial issues and even then not directly but in concert with the department head responsible for that aspect of the con.
It seemed to me that any issues were being sent directly to Nitro and it was too much for one person manage.
It seemed to me that any issues were being sent directly to Nitro and it was too much for one person manage.
R
21:55
R Ξ Z / Ξ T H
In reply to this message
You are correct 100% here. Unfortunately a lot of our time has been spent trying to dispurse the rumours and being able to explain the changes that we plan to make hasn't been able to properly happen..
BM
21:55
Border-Aussie Midnight
Yes, they acknowledged the issue already of one statement released improperly.
S
21:56
Saphy~
Spunky and Craww you're welcome to private message me at a later time. I will be slow to respond tonight
R
21:56
R Ξ Z / Ξ T H
In reply to this message
Correct. We are building a properly structured org chart for this, to ensure people know where they need to go.
S
21:56
Saphy~
In reply to this message
Priorities my friend. This is a business, not a highschool cafeteria
O
21:57
Ocean
In reply to this message
Yeah from what I can tell it wasn't attendees. I dont need excuses, I need results.
?
S
21:57
Sylox (busy)
To my knowledge it was GOHs and staff that tried to contact him as well. Not just attendees
BM
21:57
Border-Aussie Midnight
In reply to this message
And results will come once the implementation of a more solid plan is laid out.
L
21:57
Lifty πΊ
In reply to this message
But at the same time, I think Nitro was taking some of that on himself, instead of "letting PR do PR."
O
Di
21:58
Drinz is single and ready to fucking cry
In reply to this message
Damn shame you lost a great chair and co chair from that. I seriously don't understand how the con will function without their help, since they're the biggest reason the whole thing didn't fall apart.
N
ZenoTheZebra joined group by link from πNITROπ
L
21:58
Lifty πΊ
I agree that every little thing shouldn't be on the Chair's shoulders. But if the Chair takes it on themselves, well...
M
21:59
Maxim
In reply to this message
Along with this. During the actual event Con ops needs to be staffed by people who know wtf is going on. It is the nerve center of the con. I really think it should be priority to be set up, before anything else so that there is a command post to direct all the activities of the con. Sufficient help has to be given to the director of ops as well to enable them to manage things.
S
21:59
Saphy~
The fact that your non licensed security was so apt at letting everyone know they were security is also concerning, however since those people have been "let go" it's a moot point until the event comes around again
BM
21:59
Border-Aussie Midnight
In reply to this message
I'm neither without knowing that it isn't one person that makes this all work. Nothing happens with a single person its a team effort that will pull together the talent and confidence as a group.
?
21:59
π» spunky (they/them)
and as much as Nitro/et al might want a con in Harrisburg and want to run it, sometimes we just don't have the skills needed for it. same reason i never want to be a parent. no skills for it.
M
22:00
Maxim
In reply to this message
Whether he is taking on that responsibility or it's being thrust upon him makes no difference.
O
Z
22:00
Zerotheliger is typing...
So ill say ive talked to people tonight and will publically state that ill hold yall to what was discussed. Im not going to bring up what was discussed but i hope yall will learn from the issues. And im here to help if you need it. At the end of the day i want to make sure the con goers have the best possible experience. Its for them after all.
R
22:00
R Ξ Z / Ξ T H
In reply to this message
I don't understand your use of "let go" here. Those two members of security were dismissed entirely.
Di
22:00
Drinz is single and ready to fucking cry
In reply to this message
Oh shit, is this the guy whose whole contribution earlier was "lol you guys need to grow up"?
S
22:01
Saphy~
In reply to this message
Take it at face value, with the notion that neither probably should have been staff in the first place.
Di
22:01
Drinz is single and ready to fucking cry
In reply to this message
Sorry, shouldn't start an extra fire there. Looking forward to seeing what contributions they have here.
Z
22:01
Zerotheliger is typing...
In reply to this message
But hopefully those will discuss these things publically after.
M
22:01
Maxim
In reply to this message
I'm not making excuses for anyone. I'm just pointing out a place that needs to be worked on.
BM
22:01
Border-Aussie Midnight
In reply to this message
Thank you kindly, this is by far and large welcomed.
R
22:01
R Ξ Z / Ξ T H
In reply to this message
This chat isn't to be childish, its to be constructive and explanatory. Please don't make comments like this.
L
22:01
Lifty πΊ
In reply to this message
On that point, Security should never rebuff the convention chair. Ever.
Both Sharky and Anti made it seem like they were only taking orders from Nitro, which is totally improper. Again, the convention needs a proper chain of command so that the proper information gets to the proper recipients.
Both Sharky and Anti made it seem like they were only taking orders from Nitro, which is totally improper. Again, the convention needs a proper chain of command so that the proper information gets to the proper recipients.
S
22:02
Saphy~
Let me make my position 100% clear here, since I don't want anyone to get the wrong impression from my involvement in this conversation
Z
R
22:02
R Ξ Z / Ξ T H
In reply to this message
Correct, another reason we have laid out a defined orgchart.
M
22:03
Maxim
In reply to this message
I disagree here. If security has a reasonable safety concern then they need to be free to make sure it gets addressed, even if that means the con chair doesnt like it.
BM
22:03
Border-Aussie Midnight
In reply to this message
I agree on this, which is why when this information was found out steps as far as I can tell were taken accordingly. Mis information again was provided and was not verified accordingly.
Z
22:04
Zerotheliger is typing...
In reply to this message
Im friends with pretty much everyone here i understand there was alot of problems and people left in the dark or overworked. Just moving forward please talk to us in PA if you need help. We dont want to see a con fail. But at the same time we just wana make sure everyones taken care of.
BM
22:04
Border-Aussie Midnight
If you wish to know what the horse said, go to the horse directly.
Di
22:04
Drinz is single and ready to fucking cry
In reply to this message
Con ops staff would know what's going on if communication was competent throughout the con. They can only work with what information they have. And for the love of FUCK staff it with more than one person! That was one of the biggest grievances I have, since my girlfriend was insanely overworked there and the staff almost never had anyone who could take over that position. Nobody should have to put in multiple consecutive 13 hour work days sitting in one spot when they had planned on enjoying the convention they helped put together from the ground up!
BM
22:05
Border-Aussie Midnight
In reply to this message
Animation
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2.0 MB
M
S
22:05
Saphy~
Months ago I brought forward an issue with certain people (anti) involvement in the ccfc community chat, and from that stemmed a series of back and forth that caused me a lot of needless issue. More than needless now that we see the eventual outcome of the situation. Since being dragged into this mess it has been one mistake after another than the majority continues to see only in hindsight.
With the event ready to start fresh for 2021 I would like to see it be a success, I've always wanted to see it be a success, but I cannot, and will not stay quiet when it comes to blatant disregard for the event, the attendees, or the staff. I have too much invested in the convention scene as a whole not to add my two cents in.
I do not want to see a repeat on what happened in 2020, I don't want to see people cheated out of an event, and I certainly dont want to see what happened to me, happen to anyone else.
With the event ready to start fresh for 2021 I would like to see it be a success, I've always wanted to see it be a success, but I cannot, and will not stay quiet when it comes to blatant disregard for the event, the attendees, or the staff. I have too much invested in the convention scene as a whole not to add my two cents in.
I do not want to see a repeat on what happened in 2020, I don't want to see people cheated out of an event, and I certainly dont want to see what happened to me, happen to anyone else.
BM
22:06
Border-Aussie Midnight
In reply to this message
I agree with this fully, and believe we discussed it for a few moments as well.
R
22:06
R Ξ Z / Ξ T H
In reply to this message
This is completely understandable, a reason that we are trying to start from a clean slate here and ensure that restructuring can start from the ground up.
N
22:08
NOT A PIGEON (They/them)
I'm gonna be real here and say you all as a whole owe Saphy an apology for your actions given the fact that he constantly tried to warn you about a certain individual but you all still chose to ignore and ban him
?
22:09
ππ£ππ€ππππ ππ£π Γ
So, as far as I am aware, the situation is this. I have been there from the very beginning - I joined as an artist, and when I saw that the leadership was struggling, I stepped in as a jack-of-all-trades, keeping my hand on every facet of the con. I made art - much of the convention merchandise was my art, as was the con book cover. I planned the CCFC Picnic event, and ran registration the entire time. I did as much as I could to keep things running smoothly, put in my two cents until I stepped back a bit for a few months to focus on school. Things were loose, there was no structure within the staff, and it was unsettling.
Loveless was brought in the month right before the convention - he did a few things, but did not contribute to an extreme extent. From the moment I met him, he seemed power-hungry and self-important.
I was invited back - I wasn't sure the convention was even happening, because I had a feeling that the financial situation was less than ideal. When I heard about the registration numbers being viable, I allowed myself to relax back into being involved as an executive of CCFC. The final month, I participated in group calls, got things set up, and a few days before the con, I arrived at the house and worked on the candy decorations for nine hours. At that point, it was unknown whether or not the convention would even happen due to the debt that we were in.
We got to the hotel - unloaded everything - I helped set up the registration room, got everything organized. Whether or not the convention was going to happen was confirmed and denied about six times that night. I ran pre-reg not knowing if the convention would even happen.
We figured it out to the point that we got it to happen - Ultra was the one who stepped in and negotiated everything, making it manageable. I was tasked with fixing the schedule, which Loveless had carelessly constructed - it was an absolute disaster and I untangled it as best I could.
During the convention, I spent thirteen hours a day either sitting my ass in con ops doing damage control or running around making sure things were sorted out as different issues cropped up. I got four hours of sleep per night, I was up bright and early at every single staff meeting.
Loveless decided to message me from Arizona, telling me he 'really needed to speak with Nitro' and 'he really needed to hear Nitro's voice' while Nitro was working hard on the convention floor. Loveless then proceeded to tell me that I was 'out of my depth', 'doing his job for him', that I was 'underqualified to run it by myself'. He followed that with 'he would be above me in rank next year'. Loveless continued to harass the staff and create problems throughout the weekend.
Ultra and I finished the convention both having worked our asses off. We were confident and satisfied that there was hope- we would just need to untangle things.
It was somehow implied to Loveless that he would be able to work his way back up to a leadership role.
Loveless arrived the day after the convention. Ultra and I made it clear that the 'GM' role was dissolving and that he was not fit to be convention leadership. We said we would like to give him another chance in a different role, under main events or something similar. He completely ignored our statement, thanking us for "giving him a chance to work his way back up". He is narcissistic, extremely self-important, power-hungry to an extent that I didn't think was possible. But we decided to let it go, thinking he couldn't do damage if he wasn't in a leadership position.
I will skirt around the rumoured money issues because we were on the track to sorting out the convention's debt.
Loveless perceived that Ultra had 'taken the convention over from him', even though Ultra
1) did not sign up to be chairman
2) was roped into fixing the con on the day he arrived at the hotel
3) did what he did out of love for people who were involved into the convention
Ultra simply wanted to see a fandom event run by people he cared about succeed.
Loveless was brought in the month right before the convention - he did a few things, but did not contribute to an extreme extent. From the moment I met him, he seemed power-hungry and self-important.
I was invited back - I wasn't sure the convention was even happening, because I had a feeling that the financial situation was less than ideal. When I heard about the registration numbers being viable, I allowed myself to relax back into being involved as an executive of CCFC. The final month, I participated in group calls, got things set up, and a few days before the con, I arrived at the house and worked on the candy decorations for nine hours. At that point, it was unknown whether or not the convention would even happen due to the debt that we were in.
We got to the hotel - unloaded everything - I helped set up the registration room, got everything organized. Whether or not the convention was going to happen was confirmed and denied about six times that night. I ran pre-reg not knowing if the convention would even happen.
We figured it out to the point that we got it to happen - Ultra was the one who stepped in and negotiated everything, making it manageable. I was tasked with fixing the schedule, which Loveless had carelessly constructed - it was an absolute disaster and I untangled it as best I could.
During the convention, I spent thirteen hours a day either sitting my ass in con ops doing damage control or running around making sure things were sorted out as different issues cropped up. I got four hours of sleep per night, I was up bright and early at every single staff meeting.
Loveless decided to message me from Arizona, telling me he 'really needed to speak with Nitro' and 'he really needed to hear Nitro's voice' while Nitro was working hard on the convention floor. Loveless then proceeded to tell me that I was 'out of my depth', 'doing his job for him', that I was 'underqualified to run it by myself'. He followed that with 'he would be above me in rank next year'. Loveless continued to harass the staff and create problems throughout the weekend.
Ultra and I finished the convention both having worked our asses off. We were confident and satisfied that there was hope- we would just need to untangle things.
It was somehow implied to Loveless that he would be able to work his way back up to a leadership role.
Loveless arrived the day after the convention. Ultra and I made it clear that the 'GM' role was dissolving and that he was not fit to be convention leadership. We said we would like to give him another chance in a different role, under main events or something similar. He completely ignored our statement, thanking us for "giving him a chance to work his way back up". He is narcissistic, extremely self-important, power-hungry to an extent that I didn't think was possible. But we decided to let it go, thinking he couldn't do damage if he wasn't in a leadership position.
I will skirt around the rumoured money issues because we were on the track to sorting out the convention's debt.
Loveless perceived that Ultra had 'taken the convention over from him', even though Ultra
1) did not sign up to be chairman
2) was roped into fixing the con on the day he arrived at the hotel
3) did what he did out of love for people who were involved into the convention
Ultra simply wanted to see a fandom event run by people he cared about succeed.
N
22:10
NOT A PIGEON (They/them)
And when I spoke with Nitro about the harassment that Saphy received all i got was "Saphy has a background"
Which - by no means - is an anywhere near an acceptable excuse because that's pretty much condoning the harassment
Which - by no means - is an anywhere near an acceptable excuse because that's pretty much condoning the harassment
Z
?
22:10
ππ£ππ€ππππ ππ£π Γ
Loveless was fired for sowing seeds of discord and manipulating staff. He went directly to Ultra's boyfriend and told him that he was 'mentally unstable', creating strain in their relationship. He also went behind Nitro's back, and said unfavorable things about him. Loveless was then fired - not for a few days, though, because he was staying at Nitro's house.
Loveless eavesdropped on an executive chat voice call. I don't know much about this, but apparently, he was preparing a sort of coup with other members of staff.
Loveless then proceeded to tell two staff members who had run our security team that they were being fired, and that there had been unsavory things said about them by the executives - which was not true. What we had said was that we were going to bring in staff to support them from other conventions. These two had alt-right ties.
They misinterpreted this, and called Ultra, a Jewish person, a slur, in a message to Nitro.
These staff members did not perform well in their roles as members of the security team, but we were restructuring staff, so nothing was confirmed or denied at the time. These staff members were inebriated on the convention floor while on the clock, and there were also reports of sexual harassment regarding one of them.
We released this statement on Twitter, name-dropping them- which was an unfortunate and incorrect decision. However, they retaliated by igniting drama, threatening legal action (which they had absolutely no grounds for), and going directly after Ultra.
Ultra presented the executive staff with two options:
1) Let him resign/fire him, which would quell the nazis, and would let the con move on without drama.
2) Have the executive board release a statement, signed by all members, backing up Ultra and reaffirming that the leadership was strong. The document would also state that due to restructuring of the convention as a whole, all current/previous staff members would be relieved of their positions. This would create a clean, strong slate for the convention to refresh itself.
We were to make this decision as a board, without Ultra. At this time, the conversation became heated, and it began to break down. People suggested that writing the letter would be an 'ego stroke' for Ultra, a permanent commitment to supporting whatever his actions might be in the future, which was far from the case. Both of these would have been PR moves, made in an attempt to quell drama. He never wanted his ass kissed and he never wanted power, he wanted the convention to run smoothly.
During this meeting, a staff member who will not be named was in the room. He decided to give his two cents during the executive voice chat. He called Ultra a dictator, which was a) unnecessary and b) unhelpful. He should not have been involved in the call at all. This staff member was not a member of the executive board, but he fell into a tizzy as he was asked politely not to interject into the executive staff call.
In the time that Ultra was not involved in this specific decision, everything that he said would happen happened. The internal staff is unstable.
Loveless eavesdropped on an executive chat voice call. I don't know much about this, but apparently, he was preparing a sort of coup with other members of staff.
Loveless then proceeded to tell two staff members who had run our security team that they were being fired, and that there had been unsavory things said about them by the executives - which was not true. What we had said was that we were going to bring in staff to support them from other conventions. These two had alt-right ties.
They misinterpreted this, and called Ultra, a Jewish person, a slur, in a message to Nitro.
These staff members did not perform well in their roles as members of the security team, but we were restructuring staff, so nothing was confirmed or denied at the time. These staff members were inebriated on the convention floor while on the clock, and there were also reports of sexual harassment regarding one of them.
We released this statement on Twitter, name-dropping them- which was an unfortunate and incorrect decision. However, they retaliated by igniting drama, threatening legal action (which they had absolutely no grounds for), and going directly after Ultra.
Ultra presented the executive staff with two options:
1) Let him resign/fire him, which would quell the nazis, and would let the con move on without drama.
2) Have the executive board release a statement, signed by all members, backing up Ultra and reaffirming that the leadership was strong. The document would also state that due to restructuring of the convention as a whole, all current/previous staff members would be relieved of their positions. This would create a clean, strong slate for the convention to refresh itself.
We were to make this decision as a board, without Ultra. At this time, the conversation became heated, and it began to break down. People suggested that writing the letter would be an 'ego stroke' for Ultra, a permanent commitment to supporting whatever his actions might be in the future, which was far from the case. Both of these would have been PR moves, made in an attempt to quell drama. He never wanted his ass kissed and he never wanted power, he wanted the convention to run smoothly.
During this meeting, a staff member who will not be named was in the room. He decided to give his two cents during the executive voice chat. He called Ultra a dictator, which was a) unnecessary and b) unhelpful. He should not have been involved in the call at all. This staff member was not a member of the executive board, but he fell into a tizzy as he was asked politely not to interject into the executive staff call.
In the time that Ultra was not involved in this specific decision, everything that he said would happen happened. The internal staff is unstable.
22:11
Nitro is not qualified or experienced enough to run a convention by himself. His ideas are brilliant, and he has great passion and enthusiasm, but those are not the qualities that are most necessary for leadership. I love Nitro to bits and pieces and he has a great heart. I love most of the people I got to work with throughout this convention. But I am certainly not confident about the leadership from this point forward. You have lost someone with 12 years of political experience, extremely useful and relevant furry event experience, know-how regarding contract negotiation and the like, general competence, and high logical and social intelligence. You have also lost someone who dedicated hours of labor and talent and effort to Nitro's vision, who worked their absolute ass off in every single blessed area for the convention, who is also competent, professional and intelligent.
I am appalled at the lack of professionalism within the board, and the lack of regard that specific members of the board seem to have for the people who gave up so much to help you. I don't wish you ill, but I reserve the right to be disappointed, pissed off, and for a time, bitter.
I am appalled at the lack of professionalism within the board, and the lack of regard that specific members of the board seem to have for the people who gave up so much to help you. I don't wish you ill, but I reserve the right to be disappointed, pissed off, and for a time, bitter.
Di
22:12
Drinz is single and ready to fucking cry
In reply to this message
Nitro is notoriously vague about a lot of things, not limited to the convention's funds and the handling (or mishandling) of multiple incidents throughout the convention. I got a lot of "don't worry about it" and "it's handled" throughout the whole thing. He's lost my trust as an attendee and as a volunteer. It hurts because I still want to consider him a friend, but as a chairperson, he's woefully underprepared to have any kind of authority over others.
S
22:13
Sylox (busy)
Wait wait
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Z
N
22:16
NOT A PIGEON (They/them)
On top of which I would also bring troublesome individuals to staffs attention but wouldn't get any response or when I did the messages were extremely unprofessional.
You all need to devise a report system as well to better handle things like that
You all need to devise a report system as well to better handle things like that
R
Z
22:18
Zerotheliger is typing...
This chat was honestly the best idea. I know yall dont want a bunch of drama but to air everything out is good.
N
22:19
NOT A PIGEON (They/them)
In reply to this message
That's also another massive problem is how staff seemed like they wanted people to stop asking questions. Having a gag order on staff doesn't look very good either
Z
22:19
Zerotheliger is typing...
In reply to this message
Which is why leaks happened.and have possibly gotten twisted to be worse.
S
22:24
Sai / Ma-mow @ ??
I am going to give my outside opinion as to why I didnt end up attending this event, there were a ton of what I would call red flags, leading up to the event and during:
-jumping the gun on hotel, i saw yall post on twitter about choosing hotel and dates and then weeks - month later posting about securing the contract
-flip flopping GOH, a constant rotating door of GOh I as a protentional attendee didnt know who and who wasnt a GOH, how GOH situation was handled in general was not great
-I have no idea who your chair is but the small interactions i had with them(Nitro) and witnessed in the time approaching the con on social media and in chats, I personally thought this was not a person experienced or mature enough to chair a con without other mature and well experienced staff and board and since I hardly recognized any names I didnt have alot of faith in this event
-inviting people from Howlr to boost population, but somehow locals and semi locals had no idea about this event
- not talking to and taking advice from other event leaders (locally and state side in general) This was a huge red flag for me, I asked other con chairs and other major event runners about this event and no one knew anything really about it nor had there advice been sought ( there is legit a chat dedicated to the network of major con staff and chairs of events I suggest you look into contacting others and getting there advice)
-planning date of choice, you planned the event two days after another large semi local event NYFB during another LARGE convention MAGFEST and right after major holidays (xmas/new years)
-event seeming rushed, and disorganized before and during the event
- unprofessional messages being used and forwarded to public chat, I am talking about that you will get shot comment
-staff, volunteer, public communication break down, no one knew what was happening and what was going on, and no one was giving a decisive answer
- whispers of and semi public announcement of con debt?, if you want to be transparent be transparent, dont flip flop it only leads to more distrust
-runner of social media(twitter) wasnt even at the event? adding extra communication breakdown
EDITββ-
one more point:
- did yall ever decide if you were a non profit or for profit status, cause when I first inquired nothing had been decided and this was after annoucing everything about the con,
- also want to add I know nothing about the interactions within staff, i am just an outsider*
-jumping the gun on hotel, i saw yall post on twitter about choosing hotel and dates and then weeks - month later posting about securing the contract
-flip flopping GOH, a constant rotating door of GOh I as a protentional attendee didnt know who and who wasnt a GOH, how GOH situation was handled in general was not great
-I have no idea who your chair is but the small interactions i had with them(Nitro) and witnessed in the time approaching the con on social media and in chats, I personally thought this was not a person experienced or mature enough to chair a con without other mature and well experienced staff and board and since I hardly recognized any names I didnt have alot of faith in this event
-inviting people from Howlr to boost population, but somehow locals and semi locals had no idea about this event
- not talking to and taking advice from other event leaders (locally and state side in general) This was a huge red flag for me, I asked other con chairs and other major event runners about this event and no one knew anything really about it nor had there advice been sought ( there is legit a chat dedicated to the network of major con staff and chairs of events I suggest you look into contacting others and getting there advice)
-planning date of choice, you planned the event two days after another large semi local event NYFB during another LARGE convention MAGFEST and right after major holidays (xmas/new years)
-event seeming rushed, and disorganized before and during the event
- unprofessional messages being used and forwarded to public chat, I am talking about that you will get shot comment
-staff, volunteer, public communication break down, no one knew what was happening and what was going on, and no one was giving a decisive answer
- whispers of and semi public announcement of con debt?, if you want to be transparent be transparent, dont flip flop it only leads to more distrust
-runner of social media(twitter) wasnt even at the event? adding extra communication breakdown
EDITββ-
one more point:
- did yall ever decide if you were a non profit or for profit status, cause when I first inquired nothing had been decided and this was after annoucing everything about the con,
- also want to add I know nothing about the interactions within staff, i am just an outsider*
Z
22:26
Zerotheliger is typing...
In reply to this message
Yeah this is another thing we all discussed about before the con even happened. Alot of people were getting red flags before too.
R
22:26
R Ξ Z / Ξ T H
Let me be clear for just a moment, I understand not all questions have been answered yet tonight but I for one need to get to bed as its past midnight and I have a job; additionally most if not all of the other staff members will be doing the same, so please allow us to answer these as we can within the next day or so
Di
22:26
Drinz is single and ready to fucking cry
In reply to this message
I'd like to say that all of Flynne's statements here just now should not be brushed aside. As someone who has been there through a significant bit of the running of the con, I'm confident in the accuracy of her statements here. At the very least it should be evidence for why Nitro isn't fit to lead the convention.
Z
R
22:27
We just need to sleep π
Z
R
22:27
R Ξ Z / Ξ T H
A lot of us haven't in the last week.
?
S
22:28
Saphy~
I think you should accept that discussion is going to happen, and that this is a good place for it. Better here than in main chat rooms, and then hit it off tomorrow or whenever you have to r allocated towards it. Discourse will probably not stop among those interested for tonight, and discouraging it isn't an attractive position
Z
22:28
ZenoTheZebra
Lot as been said and lot needs to be process
S
22:29
Saphy~
And I am sure there is more to be discussed c:
R
22:29
R Ξ Z / Ξ T H
In reply to this message
No its fine to continue chatting, just understand that we arent going to be here to reply until tomorrow
Di
22:29
Drinz is single and ready to fucking cry
In reply to this message
If they pin anything else in main chat and make it harder for attendees to see or access this chat, I'm going to be mighty unhappy with them.
Z
Z
22:29
Zerotheliger is typing...
In reply to this message
But this is also very important to along with what flynn said.
Z
22:30
ZenoTheZebra
Itβs better here and not in the chats thoses chats can be for fun and this chat for improvement discussion
22:31
No one wants hear it
M
22:31
Maxim
In reply to this message
This is another point that needs to be made here. No one on the staff is doing this as a job. It's in free time.
S
22:31
Saphy~
Part of this stage of recovery is going to be dealing with harsh criticism, and no one wants to be in that position, however part of being the leadership is learning to handle it. These next few weeks are going to be very interesting in regards to the future of CCFC
Z
22:31
Zerotheliger is typing...
Shit i ran out of cigerettes
Z
22:32
ZenoTheZebra
And the biggest thing it is the first time lot of these people have done this and the first con for CCFC as well take everything with a grain of salt
Di
22:33
Drinz is single and ready to fucking cry
In reply to this message
Meanwhile I ran out of brain cells. Why else would I still be stressing out over this when the staff's not even here?
M
22:33
Maxim
In reply to this message
This whole statement makes a lot of things clearer as to what happened. Thank you!
S
22:33
Sylox (busy)
Alright I'm gonna bow out and get some sleep. Thank you all for making this group, its important that a discussion happen on what went wrong and how to fix things. Goodnight everyone.
?
22:33
ππ£ππ€ππππ ππ£π Γ
In reply to this message
No problem! I figured we needed an overarching summary of the situation.
Z
22:37
ZenoTheZebra
Now time take a shot of fireball
?
Z
22:38
ZenoTheZebra
I got lot so take some
?
22:38
ππ£ππ€ππππ ππ£π Γ
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?
22:38
π» spunky (they/them)
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M
22:38
Maxim
This is going to seem really out of left field but everyone on staff should take NIMS training. You can find the basics free online through FEMA's website. I really think getting people thinking about running this thing in a more disciplined and structured way would be of tremendous help.
Take lessons learned by people who need to make sure many of the very problems experienced during this whole debacle dont happen when people's lives are on the line. If it works for incidents where lives are at risk, it will work here.
Take lessons learned by people who need to make sure many of the very problems experienced during this whole debacle dont happen when people's lives are on the line. If it works for incidents where lives are at risk, it will work here.
Di
Z
22:39
ZenoTheZebra
Lol
M
N
22:41
NOT A PIGEON (They/them)
In reply to this message
And also do research on people before adding them as staff especially in high powered positions two weeks prior.
Di
?
22:43
π» spunky (they/them)
In reply to this message
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Z
22:44
ZenoTheZebra
God no not that please
Z
L
22:45
Lifty πΊ
In reply to this message
This is a good idea. Do you know if security or EMS staff were at least given some form of training in case of fire?
S
22:45
Saphy~
In reply to this message
*those with extreme conservative views which contradict the lifestyle and social atmosphere of this Fandoms primary demographic, the LGBTQ+ community
L
22:45
Lifty πΊ
It was required of me for every year I was staff with BronyCon.
N
22:45
NOT A PIGEON (They/them)
Also have a set age requirement for anyone to be head of anything on staff. Having anyone under 20 as a lead is a horrible decision
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?
L
22:46
Lifty πΊ
In reply to this message
I'd think that that would come with experience in the field.
Z
22:47
Zerotheliger is typing...
In reply to this message
Actually i know a few people who were qualified but werent on staff anymore who are actual EMS outside of the con.
L
22:47
Lifty πΊ
A lot of staffers were brought in with little to no experience in the roles they undertook.
Di
22:47
Drinz is single and ready to fucking cry
In reply to this message
Ah, right. I should use the proper term, "fash trash." /shot
S
22:47
Saphy~
In reply to this message
It's not, no one takes it serious, especially those who ride the center line, when you go "hur dur everyone's a nazi"
Jester joined group by link from πNITROπ
S
22:48
Saphy~
Leave no room for misinterpretation and you won't have to worry about being misinterpreted
N
22:49
NOT A PIGEON (They/them)
Have an application process too don't just reach out and pick the first people who contact you. Terrible business model and that's how you end up with head of PR telling people they're going to get shot. Thus causing everyone to stay in their rooms because they're afraid of getting mowed down at a convention..
If it does happen then you need to discipline and/or remove them as it happens. Don't ignore things like that
If it does happen then you need to discipline and/or remove them as it happens. Don't ignore things like that
Z
22:49
Zerotheliger is typing...
In reply to this message
I prefer to just go with the i dont care about your belieifs as long as you believe everyone i mean everyone has rights to equal treatment. And should be treated all fairly.
Di
22:49
Drinz is single and ready to fucking cry
In reply to this message
Fair point.
So, would you say the guys who were fired from the con were or weren't Nazis?
So, would you say the guys who were fired from the con were or weren't Nazis?
?
Z
22:49
Zerotheliger is typing...
In reply to this message
My fundemental belief is that. And those against that show them selves quite quickly.
S
22:50
Saphy~
In reply to this message
Is it the 40s and was the con Germany? I'm pretty sure I made myself pretty clear on the need for proper terminology
Di
22:50
Drinz is single and ready to fucking cry
In reply to this message
I grock the cut of your jive, fam, and I'm diggin' it!
L
22:50
Lifty πΊ
In reply to this message
The application process that was put in place was flawed. The convention should pick up examples of applications from other events and redesign the staff application.
Z
22:50
Zerotheliger is typing...
In reply to this message
Personally one yes the other i cannot prove as of this time. And i need things to be verified before i make decisions cause that could lead to backlash. Yall know how it goes. If i have faulty evidence it makes admins look bad.
N
Di
22:54
Drinz is single and ready to fucking cry
In reply to this message
Would "fascist" be a proper term, then?
Z
22:54
Zerotheliger is typing...
In reply to this message
I broke the computer two times when i went to pick up my con badge
L
22:54
Lifty πΊ
In reply to this message
By providing applications that don't clarify what position the applicant wants
Di
22:55
Drinz is single and ready to fucking cry
God, we need to turn off slow chat now that it's gotten quiet here.
N
22:55
NOT A PIGEON (They/them)
In reply to this message
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Z
22:55
Zerotheliger is typing...
Unfortunatly the admins left.
L
22:55
Lifty πΊ
They went to bed.
22:55
And so should I.
N
L
N
22:55
NOT A PIGEON (They/them)
Oh my fucking God
22:56
Who made the application?
22:56
Was it on Google forms?
L
22:56
Lifty πΊ
No, it was on Jotform
N
22:56
NOT A PIGEON (They/them)
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L
22:56
Lifty πΊ
I dunno who made the forms, but it left a lot of info out.
?
22:57
ππ£ππ€ππππ ππ£π Γ
In reply to this message
Nitro designed a lot of the forms himself.
22:57
To my knowledge.
22:57
And I was involved with it to a small extent- I had access, but I was not tasked with creating the forms.
22:57
That was 'handled'.
L
22:58
Lifty πΊ
Like I said. Take the time to review how it's done at other cons. Gather ideas from multiple sources. Take notes on what you like and dislike, and then put that together.
Z
22:58
Zerotheliger is typing...
Flynn you need tons of hugs and icecream
22:58
And salami.
L
22:58
Lifty πΊ
I like all three of those too.
Z
Di
23:01
Drinz is single and ready to fucking cry
In reply to this message
Just like so much of the rest of this mess of a con.
If he'd done more talking and less sweeping under the rug, maybe "communication" wouldn't be one of the top complaints about the con.
If he'd done more talking and less sweeping under the rug, maybe "communication" wouldn't be one of the top complaints about the con.
?
23:02
ππ£ππ€ππππ ππ£π Γ
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Di
23:02
Drinz is single and ready to fucking cry
In reply to this message
That sounds messy and unappetizing. :P
Z
23:03
Zerotheliger is typing...
In reply to this message
Theres alot of things that have been messy and unappetizing
23:03
I would rather eat salami ice cream
23:03
Dont quote me on that.
Z
23:04
ZenoTheZebra
Can we keep this chat for important discussion please
16 January 2020
π΄ TOKO π΅ KANGARUU π¦ joined group by link from πNITROπ
Z
?K
01:57
so i have one piece of honest feedback i'd really like to get out here
Z
01:58
Zerotheliger is typing...
In reply to this message
No pineapple will not be allowed on pizza. Jk go on
?K
01:58
π΄ TOKO π΅ KANGARUU π¦
i've worked a boooaaatload of cons at this point, i do people management and leadership professionally at work, and all cons have problems. that's all good. but holy hell the degree to which those leak out on the attendees is astounding. y'all need to get your communications under control and start acting like adults, honestly
Z
01:59
Zerotheliger is typing...
In reply to this message
Yeah this one was one of my biggest points.
01:59
I shouldnt have known everything that went on behind the scenes.
?K
01:59
π΄ TOKO π΅ KANGARUU π¦
i was on staff for a minute (you probably don't even remember) and bounced because i saw this train coming to hit the con from a mile away. if people were focused on problem solving vs. an endless series of breathless public statements you might be in a better place. your reputation everywhere is being absolutely destroyed. local group chats are tearing in to the event and basically treating it as drama from a distance.
01:59
it's gonna affect you long-term. something to think about.
02:00
if you keep up this public meltdown you will likely destroy your chances of paying your debts + having a second year.
Z
02:03
Zerotheliger is typing...
In reply to this message
At the same time making this chat did allow things to get aired out
?K
02:04
π΄ TOKO π΅ KANGARUU π¦
objectively i think that an unmoderated public feedback forum where individuals are making unapproved off the cuff responses and excuses is a nightmarishly bad idea
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03:07
:Loading:Zeska.... Complete :\Loading Destination>Anthrocon>2020
In reply to this message
I agree heavily to this. Like I pointed out there should not be telegram chats. All this leaking is caused by this and other social formats. I laughed when i seen they made a chat that is a hot ground for shit to be leaked.
03:08
During the con they need a room/ hotel room for the board to discuss matters. Not in the open in which i saw.
03:10
They need more qualified members on the board who have atleast 4+ experience. Not some cat they picked up in the Alley way.
S
03:12
Saphy~
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03:12
:Loading:Zeska.... Complete :\Loading Destination>Anthrocon>2020
Same can be applied with staff. I could go on messages explaining alot of stuff that could definitely benefit this con but that is for them to contact me about and not here.
π΄ TOKO π΅ KANGARUU π¦ removed π΄ TOKO π΅ KANGARUU π¦
Draco Alzrentu joined group by link from πNITROπ
L
04:44
Lifty πΊ
In reply to this message
This is a big reason why the convention needs all staffers to sign an NDA on convention matters. There was a lot of info on the state of the convention being freely given away by staffers.
04:47
NDAs should not be just for the upper management. Everyone on staff should be bound by one.
::
04:48
:Loading:Zeska.... Complete :\Loading Destination>Anthrocon>2020
In reply to this message
Agree
Cy @ AC joined group by link from πNITROπ
Z
05:58
Zerotheliger is typing...
In reply to this message
Either way everything that needed to be said got said.
05:58
And yeah we shouldnt have been able to know alot of this
05:59
Not what was discussed here more that people were able to know internal workings.
06:00
Cause a lot of it didnt need to be known but certain issues if they werent resolved did tho.
Amy Hopwood [READ BIO] π joined group by link from πNITROπ
L
06:40
Lifty πΊ
I also would like to speak my peace about the website.
06:52
Personally, I feel like the website was designed poorly. One of the biggest issues is that if you typed it as "www.capitalcityfurcon.org" it would throw a security certificate error. Removing the "www." bit and the website works as it should.
Nevertheless, when you open the website, the very first thing you see is a loadbar. It doesnt matter what webpage you navigate to, the loadbar shows up. Sometimes it stops altogether.
I've never seen these issues on any other convention's website.
Nevertheless, when you open the website, the very first thing you see is a loadbar. It doesnt matter what webpage you navigate to, the loadbar shows up. Sometimes it stops altogether.
I've never seen these issues on any other convention's website.
π€Nukaπ€ (AKA πQueen Kiπ) joined group by link from πNITROπ
N
07:41
NOT A PIGEON (They/them)
I agree with the poor website. What's the point of the loading bar? It makes navigating the site extremely unappealing to others.
The staff page also made you all look extremely unprofessional with a few of the things that were up there, you don't need full bios for things like this it also looked like nothing but self glorification to you all rather than a resource for information.
The amount of involvement you made your attendees go through involving staff problems was just disrespectful. There should be no reason why they had to get involved in your convention and there should be no reason why you all kept approaching one member despite him telling you all that he will not help you. The fact that members got dragged into this shit show without their consent is a major issue and also reflects poorly on not just the organization but Nitro as a whole. Once again bringing someone, who pepper had warned you about, on staff without even asking your current staff about shows that you have no care or respect for what your staff members have to say unless they're your friend. Everyone else was busting their asses trying to fix mistakes made on your part and you kept adding to them without consulting your leads.
As people have said state chats want nothing to do with your convention because of everything but this has been a thing for months now at this point. Some are telling their members not to go, others don't even mention it or try to play it off like they've never heard of your convention. The more things hey leaked out the more people are encouraging members not to attend. Adding anti on as staff was the boiling point given everything that he's done in the Maryland, DC, NOVA area and he was also removed from your chat prior or back in October.
Do you know how bad it looked on your convention when he was in FAU chat telling people of they have an issue at CCFC to come to him?
The staff page also made you all look extremely unprofessional with a few of the things that were up there, you don't need full bios for things like this it also looked like nothing but self glorification to you all rather than a resource for information.
The amount of involvement you made your attendees go through involving staff problems was just disrespectful. There should be no reason why they had to get involved in your convention and there should be no reason why you all kept approaching one member despite him telling you all that he will not help you. The fact that members got dragged into this shit show without their consent is a major issue and also reflects poorly on not just the organization but Nitro as a whole. Once again bringing someone, who pepper had warned you about, on staff without even asking your current staff about shows that you have no care or respect for what your staff members have to say unless they're your friend. Everyone else was busting their asses trying to fix mistakes made on your part and you kept adding to them without consulting your leads.
As people have said state chats want nothing to do with your convention because of everything but this has been a thing for months now at this point. Some are telling their members not to go, others don't even mention it or try to play it off like they've never heard of your convention. The more things hey leaked out the more people are encouraging members not to attend. Adding anti on as staff was the boiling point given everything that he's done in the Maryland, DC, NOVA area and he was also removed from your chat prior or back in October.
Do you know how bad it looked on your convention when he was in FAU chat telling people of they have an issue at CCFC to come to him?
07:42
Despite multiple warnings about this character and his behavior you still decided to bring him on and everything that we explained would happen did happen
?(
07:43
π€Nukaπ€ (AKA πQueen Kiπ)
How open can a discussion be? Just curious
::
07:44
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These chats are such a bad idea.
N
07:44
NOT A PIGEON (They/them)
You all need to write a statement apologizing to all former staff and also personally apologize for the extreme hell and harassment you put them through. The fact that a former staff member bad to actually disable his call feature because you keep calling them is just downright disrespectful and shows your lack of respect/concern for others.
The main reason why I refused to even consider helping you all in any way we because i heard about how poorly you treat staff
The main reason why I refused to even consider helping you all in any way we because i heard about how poorly you treat staff
?(
07:45
π€Nukaπ€ (AKA πQueen Kiπ)
I have something to say but afraid it might be to much
N
07:48
NOT A PIGEON (They/them)
They made this chat for feedback
::
07:51
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In reply to this message
Exactly but with certain feedback can lead rumors. False rumors can lead to disaster. Someone can say oh i heard this in the discussion chat but twist it to either (A) make it alot worse. (B) give out false info. Its great they want everyones opinion but having it all together in one big chat sessions is very unorganized. They should of set up a email and posted it to the main telegram group. This allows easy organization. Ya this is quicker but very easly confusable
AbzΓ» [π¨π¦] joined group by link from πNITROπ
::
07:53
:Loading:Zeska.... Complete :\Loading Destination>Anthrocon>2020
In reply to this message
That email should also be posted on the website under contact in a tab called feedback.
N
07:53
NOT A PIGEON (They/them)
Would they actually look at it though
::
07:54
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Would they look through this chat
07:54
Its the same thing just a corner cutt because its easier
N
07:54
NOT A PIGEON (They/them)
Fair
?(
07:58
π€Nukaπ€ (AKA πQueen Kiπ)
I feel it was too much when they put the sign over Con Security, sure it may been just a joke but to the people around it shows signs of being unprofessional. Everyone gets that way but being in the con staff and doing that on the con floor isn't a symbol of professionalism. The two culprits were banned I believe but still the photo of it could have been deleted immediately as well as it should been addressed then and there.
N
07:59
NOT A PIGEON (They/them)
What sign?
?(
07:59
π€Nukaπ€ (AKA πQueen Kiπ)
It was in the NSFW chat
08:01
I am not going to post it in here but I felt that it should have been dealt with as soon as it was even there
N
08:04
NOT A PIGEON (They/them)
Wait that was on security
08:04
And no action was taken at all?
L
?(
N
08:07
NOT A PIGEON (They/them)
The sign that said "dick sucking contest"?
?
08:08
ππ£ππ€ππππ ππ£π Γ
In reply to this message
oh no, i didnβt know about this x.x
?(
08:08
π€Nukaπ€ (AKA πQueen Kiπ)
I felt that needed to be addressed. I know that it didnt get addressed at all though
N
08:09
NOT A PIGEON (They/them)
That's literally how you get fired at a job
L
N
08:11
NOT A PIGEON (They/them)
So basically this con was nothing more than a self glorifying hangout where people buy their way as GOH because of poor budgeting, attendees get pulled to work without their consent, head of security has an orgy in someone else's room and then lies about being in they're, lead PR telling people they're going to get shot because there's rich people in the convention, alt right members claiming they're getting to be con chair after only bring there for two weeks
08:12
Also if someone really is GOH for dropping 5k to save your con that's really not a good look on either. I can understand wanting to repay them in some way but they're going to look like they bribed their way to that position
08:13
In reply to this message
Yeah we need explanations on this.
If I needed to go to security for something an I saw this I would take my problem to hotel security or the cops instead
If I needed to go to security for something an I saw this I would take my problem to hotel security or the cops instead
S
08:15
Sylox (busy)
So
08:15
I can cooberate somethings stated about con security
08:16
In the sense that there was drinking on the job Saturday evening by the head of security, his deputy and one of his subordinates
?(
08:16
π€Nukaπ€ (AKA πQueen Kiπ)
I witnessed that
S
08:16
Sylox (busy)
I was in the room when they came in and grabbed alcohol and went downstairs
N
08:16
NOT A PIGEON (They/them)
At the time of the convention??
S
?(
08:17
π€Nukaπ€ (AKA πQueen Kiπ)
I can second this
N
08:17
NOT A PIGEON (They/them)
And you can't report it because it's head of security
08:19
Tbh it's a good thing Ultra fired the whole security team because that's just horrible
R
08:19
R Ξ Z / Ξ T H
There were many, many, reasons that the security team members were let go. These being some of them. They should've been relieved quite a long time ago, some not even hired, but you are absolutely correct. They are gone.
L
08:21
Lifty πΊ
I'm going to jump in here for a minute.
Back when I was on staff for BronyCon we had a strict zero-alcohol policy while wearing staff uniforms. Violators would immediately be dismissed, have their badge revoked and asked to leave con premises.
Going forward, this convention should enforce a similar policy.
Back when I was on staff for BronyCon we had a strict zero-alcohol policy while wearing staff uniforms. Violators would immediately be dismissed, have their badge revoked and asked to leave con premises.
Going forward, this convention should enforce a similar policy.
R
08:21
R Ξ Z / Ξ T H
In reply to this message
We have already put in place this set in our code of conduct
?(
08:22
π€Nukaπ€ (AKA πQueen Kiπ)
Draco and I dont want this con to die out, yes it had has its flaws but we want to help make it better. We are trying to push Nitro to make us con staff for 2021.
R
08:22
R Ξ Z / Ξ T H
(going forward)
N
08:22
NOT A PIGEON (They/them)
Good to see you all enforce it
S
R
08:23
R Ξ Z / Ξ T H
In reply to this message
Staff applications will go out at some point in the near future. If you are interested I'll get a note to send you the link directly
?(
08:23
π€Nukaπ€ (AKA πQueen Kiπ)
In reply to this message
Send that to @DracoAlzrentu and me.
N
08:23
NOT A PIGEON (They/them)
Given everything I've heard about this convention it just sounds like a game of pretend.
?(
08:24
π€Nukaπ€ (AKA πQueen Kiπ)
This con is defiently a fixer upper
08:27
I also thought I heard some curse words for the music for the Floor War I believe. Something minor but i also saw this unprofessional when the other con music stress that no curse words should be in the music used
R
?(
08:28
π€Nukaπ€ (AKA πQueen Kiπ)
It was the end I believe and I heard some of the music singing and I thought I heard the word "shit"being used but I'm not sure
08:28
Also is CCFC a non profit organization
R
?(
08:29
π€Nukaπ€ (AKA πQueen Kiπ)
Someone asked this and didnt get a full answer
R
?(
08:29
π€Nukaπ€ (AKA πQueen Kiπ)
In reply to this message
As I said, I thought I did. I will try to look into it as well
R
08:30
R Ξ Z / Ξ T H
In reply to this message
I can say that the dances are rated PG-13, and I ran AV this year and don't recall it, but i'll check
S
08:30
Sylox (busy)
I would highly suggest that when you all look at staff and even some exec positions going forward, you hire those with experience, not just "yes men" or friends who will kiss your rump and tell you good job, keep it up.
Running a con (as you are aware) is not the same as running some furry meetup at Wawa. You're playing with tens of thousands of dollars so you need the right people in staffing and exec roles to make the right decisions. I get it, this was your first year, but you all cannot keep this up in 2021 and beyond.
Running a con (as you are aware) is not the same as running some furry meetup at Wawa. You're playing with tens of thousands of dollars so you need the right people in staffing and exec roles to make the right decisions. I get it, this was your first year, but you all cannot keep this up in 2021 and beyond.
::
08:30
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In reply to this message
Agree
R
08:36
In reply to this message
I heard from Max (the dance comp/floor wars coordinator) and he said he went over it all w/ somebody and it was clean, so if you find the dancer/song let me know
::
08:38
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In reply to this message
Atleast we know it wasnt snipers section during floor wars
?(
08:38
π€Nukaπ€ (AKA πQueen Kiπ)
@DracoAlzrentu:
"Making sure the anything NSFW stay out of the con space unless designated as a 18+ event. That was one of the main things I saw.
Another is open applications for panels and talent show early. A lot of things that CCFC Staff need to work on is internal stuff. Communication and financial issues. Mainly Communication. A clear organizational structure. Staff should sign a confidentiality agreement in which says that internal operations should stay internal and not announced publicly."
"Making sure the anything NSFW stay out of the con space unless designated as a 18+ event. That was one of the main things I saw.
Another is open applications for panels and talent show early. A lot of things that CCFC Staff need to work on is internal stuff. Communication and financial issues. Mainly Communication. A clear organizational structure. Staff should sign a confidentiality agreement in which says that internal operations should stay internal and not announced publicly."
DA
08:38
Draco Alzrentu
Sorry, didnβt want to text and drive...
N
08:39
NOT A PIGEON (They/them)
In reply to this message
Some of the things we're suggesting should be basic knowledge
S
08:39
Sylox (busy)
In reply to this message
This is a big thing I think. This is how some leaks and rumors may have started. Certain things should not be openly shared by staff members
N
08:39
NOT A PIGEON (They/them)
Wait how many people are on staff at this point
R
N
08:40
NOT A PIGEON (They/them)
How so
08:40
And can you guarantee that the previous security won't be back?
DA
08:40
Draco Alzrentu
Disclaimer, Iβm not staff (though want to be). This is just my observations as an attendee...
N
08:41
NOT A PIGEON (They/them)
Nitro has the habit of going behind everyone's back and bringing people on because they're his friends. How can we be sure this isn't going to happen again
::
08:42
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In reply to this message
There is nothing wrong with bringing on friends. Its bringing on friends that actually know what to do.
R
08:42
R Ξ Z / Ξ T H
Considering that we are rebuilding the entire convention as a whole, saying exactly how many we have at the time is hard to answer considering we haven't determined entirely who will be staying
S
08:43
Sylox (busy)
Question, did you all do background checks or vett your staff members? Surely you had to have known that one of your former staffers has ties to a well known furry Alt-Righter.
N
08:43
NOT A PIGEON (They/them)
And raider
08:44
Especially given the fact that you banned a member for pointing that out
::
08:44
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In reply to this message
You also cant go and point fingers accusing without a very solid proof that they are a threat to other saftey
N
08:44
NOT A PIGEON (They/them)
N
NOT A PIGEON (They/them) 24.10.2019 12:08:50
N
08:44
NOT A PIGEON (They/them)
As addressed in this letter
::
08:44
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Someone can be associated with someone but because of that you cant say they are the same.
N
S
08:45
Sylox (busy)
In reply to this message
Given that this former staffer at one point in time threatened me, I believe I can.
BM
08:45
Border-Aussie Midnight
In reply to this message
Sticker
Not included, change data exporting settings to download.
π, 32.1 KB
N
08:45
NOT A PIGEON (They/them)
And harassed multiple people on the behalf of/with this person
::
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In reply to this message
Well then you can def remove them
08:45
I was unfamiliar with that.
N
08:46
NOT A PIGEON (They/them)
In reply to this message
And proceeded to still harass you at the convention
::
08:46
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In reply to this message
I agree then they should of been removed from the premise
N
08:46
NOT A PIGEON (They/them)
Meanwhile the other gropes people without their consent
BM
08:47
Border-Aussie Midnight
Some of this seems like beating a dead horse at this point, just saying was mentioned in detail above.
S
08:47
Sylox (busy)
But my question is less about his affiliation and more about background checks in general. IDK if Nitro had a process to do such a thing, but I implore you all to consider doing this going forward.
BM
08:49
Border-Aussie Midnight
That is if the staff agrees to a background check and at which point there are a whole new set of issues at hand as Nitro would have access to PII and would need to comply with HIPPA rules and regulations.
N
08:50
NOT A PIGEON (They/them)
Remove Nitro and the problems would be solved
08:50
Raz seems to have a better grip of things
R
08:50
R Ξ Z / Ξ T H
I hope I do I'm drowning π
DA
08:51
Draco Alzrentu
In reply to this message
Youβre doing your best and handling things professionally.
R
08:51
R Ξ Z / Ξ T H
I was brought in in the middle of the downfall so apologies if i'm not entirely caught up
08:52
I can say, at least while i'm on staff & the board, a lot of this shit won't even remotely be tolerated
08:53
It shouldn't have been in the first place but getting down and putting everybody in a vice is what i'm trying to do
A
08:54
AbzΓ» [π¨π¦]
i have a big review of the con i am gonna write so don't be surprised by a sudden wall of text plz.
N
08:54
NOT A PIGEON (They/them)
In reply to this message
He needs to stop dragging people into to fix his problems and handle them himself. I don't want other people to end up like Ultra, Flynne and Lifty
R
08:56
R Ξ Z / Ξ T H
In reply to this message
Nitro hasn't been able to do his job effectively in a way that he wants, and we need, this is why I'm here.
A
N
08:58
NOT A PIGEON (They/them)
In reply to this message
I just don't want you getting fucked over like everyone else. I admire the determination but make sure they aren't using you
R
08:58
R Ξ Z / Ξ T H
Let me also clarify, we weren't really dragged in to be fair, I for one saw the issues going down, and not wanting to have setup main events and have to tear down. We more offered our help and it was welcomed
N
08:58
NOT A PIGEON (They/them)
And you get things in return
R
08:58
R Ξ Z / Ξ T H
In reply to this message
They absolutely arent. I'm here because I want to be, not because I need to be.
A
08:59
AbzΓ» [π¨π¦]
Also, side note, I want Ultra to remain as con chair and whoever is harassing him is getting a strongly worded letter from me. Ultra is amazing guy and without him a lot of ccfc wouldn't have happened. He and other members of staff need to be protected by this type of harassment.
08:59
(I only know of a few things from the situation from the ccfc and ultra's twitter)
R
08:59
R Ξ Z / Ξ T H
In reply to this message
Ultra and Flynne stepped down as they have. They will not be returning
A
09:00
AbzΓ» [π¨π¦]
In reply to this message
i saw that and that makes me upset. My friends and I want to return to CCFC for next year but now we don't want to if Ultra is running it. I don't want to work the con either without his leadership.
09:01
who will be con chair now? has that been discussed?
?(
A
09:02
AbzΓ» [π¨π¦]
I like Raz.
09:02
so thats good
R
09:02
R Ξ Z / Ξ T H
In reply to this message
As of right now, from traditional line of command, nitro is con chair again.
09:02
I'm not qualified to be con chair, from pure reality. I'd do it but I have no qualifications to do so.
A
09:05
AbzΓ» [π¨π¦]
my most honest opinion Nitro needs more training and MUST act more professional if he is to remain as con chair. He is not only representing himself, but the convention as a whole.
Z
09:05
ZenoTheZebra
Everyone has to start somewhere guys
R
09:05
R Ξ Z / Ξ T H
In reply to this message
Sticker
Not included, change data exporting settings to download.
π, 11.1 KB
A
09:05
AbzΓ» [π¨π¦]
In reply to this message
Sticker
Not included, change data exporting settings to download.
π€€, 23.7 KB
Z
09:05
ZenoTheZebra
Rome wasnβt built in a day
::
09:06
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In reply to this message
Have you ran a con before ?
A
09:06
AbzΓ» [π¨π¦]
In reply to this message
some experience with running a con is needed though, like starting out as a small volunteer then working your way up.
?
09:07
ππ£ππ€ππππ ππ£π Γ
In reply to this message
Right, but before you start a venture like a convention, you should examine your qualities and strengths to confirm that they line up with the responsibilities of the position. If they donβt, either learn how to do the job or partner with someone who already knows how.
Z
09:07
ZenoTheZebra
This reminds of that meme about getting a job
S
::
09:07
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In reply to this message
Same
A
::
09:08
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Did kage have experaince when he started. Nope
S
09:08
Sylox (busy)
Do you know that?
::
09:08
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In reply to this message
Yes.
S
09:08
Sylox (busy)
Alot of the people who run conventions usually have some former experience running events or have worked in staff
Z
09:09
ZenoTheZebra
09:09
Here found it
09:09
π€£
::
09:09
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I asked him a couple years back on when i wanted to start something. He said just keep at it. He explained he had 0 experience and just went with it
09:09
He learned on his way.
S
09:09
Sylox (busy)
In reply to this message
And sometimes it works but I'll be honest, alot of times it probably wont especially if you surround yourself with the wrong people
::
09:10
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In reply to this message
Which was his error but everyone learns from mistakes
S
A
09:10
AbzΓ» [π¨π¦]
even volunteering at small things like charity events and craft shows gives some experience π
S
09:10
Sylox (busy)
I hope Nitro is willing to learn
::
09:10
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In reply to this message
He is.
S
09:10
Sylox (busy)
If he's not then this con won't be around long
A
09:10
AbzΓ» [π¨π¦]
In reply to this message
kind of has no choice if there is to be one next year
::
09:10
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And you think he doesnt know that
Z
09:10
ZenoTheZebra
Damn gave the guy a chance you guys want some who knows everything
09:11
Sticker
Not included, change data exporting settings to download.
π, 35.6 KB
S
09:11
This isn't a game
Z
09:11
ZenoTheZebra
Never said it was but yeah
S
09:11
Sylox (busy)
As I stated before you're playing around with tens of thousands of dollars. You better be sure you at least have a good supporting staff if its your first time and you have no experience
A
09:12
AbzΓ» [π¨π¦]
btw who is handling online orders rn? I just bought a ton of stuff from the store to help out the con a bit more.
::
09:12
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Yall never ran a con nor had a deep affiliation. We are all human. We all make mistakes. We ALL learn from mistakes. If you are gonna complain about someone performance while not having experience in that field then your word does not matter
09:12
Sorry
A
Z
09:12
ZenoTheZebra
How
::
09:12
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You see that is right. Its proven thousands of times.
09:13
People who complain about performance are what retailers call karens
A
09:13
AbzΓ» [π¨π¦]
i work retail and manage an entire department
S
09:14
Sylox (busy)
In reply to this message
I've never ran a con but I do run a successful state group that does a lot of meets so I know what it takes to run events of varying degree, not the same but still. I'm being hard on him because I care and want to see this do well. If I didn't give a fuck, I'd pop in and laugh and leave. So excuse me if I'm a little bit blunt and want to hold people accountable.
A
09:14
AbzΓ» [π¨π¦]
while also running a suit making business.
09:14
karen is my worst enemy
Z
A
09:14
AbzΓ» [π¨π¦]
hecking Karen π
Z
09:15
ZenoTheZebra
I ran a fast place for two years I learned I didnβt know what I was doing
09:15
You learn
S
09:15
Sylox (busy)
Its a learning process and one that I hope he opens his ears too. There's alot that went right with CCFC 2020 but alot that needs to be fixed. Time will tell if he's open to fixing his mistakes like you claim he is. So far I can at least say this is a step in the right direction.
A
09:15
AbzΓ» [π¨π¦]
In reply to this message
kind of had to since the person training me was fired for stealing so for a straight week and a half i had to teach myself how to do everything.
R
09:16
R Ξ Z / Ξ T H
I would like to ask on a seperate note
L
09:16
Lifty πΊ
In reply to this message
To add to this, I think he needs to surround himself with experienced staffers, but also he needs to swallow his pride and take their advice and considerations more seriously. He should also follow directions better.
He's made a lot of poor decisions that did their own damage on the convention. Some of them could have been avoided.
He's made a lot of poor decisions that did their own damage on the convention. Some of them could have been avoided.
09:18
And if you ever get a bill for $100 for 100 flyers, something is very, very wrong with that.
::
09:19
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I honestly think money was diverted to the wrong areas also.
09:19
Somewhat
AH
09:19
Amy Hopwood [READ BIO] π
In reply to this message
Frankly itβs disappointing that theyβve left the A/V staff to handle these kinds of issues instead of having higher staff publish a statement.
As far as I can tell, you are doing well at entertaining our questions and concernsβ thank you for that.
As far as I can tell, you are doing well at entertaining our questions and concernsβ thank you for that.
L
09:19
Lifty πΊ
That could be a matter of being inexperienced in bargaining with his suppliers.
?
09:19
ππ£ππ€ππππ ππ£π Γ
Iβm sorry but not everything is going to be peaches and cream. I had extreme difficulty communicating with Nitro and every step of the way he was not only inexperienced, but unwilling to apply the criticism or feedback that he received. As unfortunate as it is, some people are genuinely not cut out to be the kind of person the con chair position requires- not everyone is mature enough and thatβs completely okay, they can still be successful in other endeavors and they can be involved with conventions, they can still make their dreams come true- but not without the abilities to apply criticism and to practice self awareness, which are two things that anyone can learn.
R
09:20
R Ξ Z / Ξ T H
In reply to this message
Well i've managed to work my way into the board and hope to stay there, so thank you
09:20
My titles for 2021 are wild
AH
09:20
Amy Hopwood [READ BIO] π
In reply to this message
I did not realize this! I am glad to hear that.
R
09:20
R Ξ Z / Ξ T H
Any comments on the dances? For those who went?
We already know thursday didn't have enough floorspace & was too loud, but is there any other feedback anybody wants to give?
We already know thursday didn't have enough floorspace & was too loud, but is there any other feedback anybody wants to give?
L
09:21
Lifty πΊ
Further, just saying "yes" is not adequate feedback.
::
09:21
:Loading:Zeska.... Complete :\Loading Destination>Anthrocon>2020
In reply to this message
did we break any bulbs
09:21
Haha
R
09:21
R Ξ Z / Ξ T H
In reply to this message
Yeah they didn't ask me to help, I pushed my way in because I was it was needed & didnt want to have to tear down anything after already being setup
A
09:21
AbzΓ» [π¨π¦]
In reply to this message
i only went to the dance once and they were pretty empty but that was like at 2am, lol. I don't dance so my feedback is useless.
::
09:21
:Loading:Zeska.... Complete :\Loading Destination>Anthrocon>2020
Nice
S
09:21
The dances were fun
R
09:22
R Ξ Z / Ξ T H
comma
S
?
09:22
ππ£ππ€ππππ ππ£π Γ
In reply to this message
He has not yet proven that he has learned from a significant majority of the mistakes he made. He lets others clean up the messes he made. I cleaned up several myself.
::
09:22
:Loading:Zeska.... Complete :\Loading Destination>Anthrocon>2020
I had alot of fun opening the dances Thursday
S
09:22
Spazzy the candy cat
In reply to this message
Friday I had fun. People danced with me while I was I a wheelchair made me very happy
::
09:22
:Loading:Zeska.... Complete :\Loading Destination>Anthrocon>2020
In reply to this message
How can he prove now when nothing is going on that he has learned.
?
09:23
I worked with him for an entire year and watched him repeat his mistakes.
AH
S
09:23
Spazzy the candy cat
Oof
::
09:23
:Loading:Zeska.... Complete :\Loading Destination>Anthrocon>2020
In reply to this message
Wasnt familiar with that. Sorry
AH
09:24
Amy Hopwood [READ BIO] π
In reply to this message
(Also, hello Flynne! Unfortunate that we meet again here, but itβs good to see you lmao)
S
09:24
Alot of this issues from what I know arent new it seems
?
09:24
ππ£ππ€ππππ ππ£π Γ
In reply to this message
Good to see you again as well! But yeah itβs wild
S
09:24
Spazzy the candy cat
Which is a shame
R
09:24
R Ξ Z / Ξ T H
What I can say is that for next year i'll be handling technical operations (AV and IT), I'll also be the DJ coordinator again, and POSSIBLY will be chief of staff. I don't know if I want that role yet.
09:24
For those that aren't aware of who I am
::
09:25
:Loading:Zeska.... Complete :\Loading Destination>Anthrocon>2020
In reply to this message
Can I play again haha
A
09:25
AbzΓ» [π¨π¦]
In reply to this message
I know who you are. we had a super professional business interview.
R
S
::
09:26
:Loading:Zeska.... Complete :\Loading Destination>Anthrocon>2020
In reply to this message
Ok haha.
A
BM
S
?
09:28
ππ£ππ€ππππ ππ£π Γ
In reply to this message
He had numerous chances and he finally lost the trust of someone who had been there since the beginning, had stepped in above their station out of necessity, and who then stepped even higher out of a desire to see something they poured dedication towards succeed. To push me to resigning was not easy to do, but it was the safest decision I could have made. I had NOTHING but faith in this covention up to recently, even with all the problems, but what they did to Ultra made me balk at stepping up as chair or even remaining as co-chair.
L
BM
09:28
Border-Aussie Midnight
In reply to this message
Awww, I mean I tried...don't recall much of it.
::
09:28
:Loading:Zeska.... Complete :\Loading Destination>Anthrocon>2020
In reply to this message
Agree actually sorry raz
R
09:29
R Ξ Z / Ξ T H
In reply to this message
It is, but I did it this year (minus cheif of staff) and will do it again.
S
S
::
09:29
:Loading:Zeska.... Complete :\Loading Destination>Anthrocon>2020
I def think chief of staff should be someone else. This con needs to learn to take less cuts.
L
09:29
Lifty πΊ
It's early. So over time others may step up to fill some of those roles.
R
S
Z
09:30
ZenoTheZebra
Look ultra is whole different thing
S
R
09:30
R Ξ Z / Ξ T H
Tech ops + DJ coord + board is where I want to be
::
09:30
:Loading:Zeska.... Complete :\Loading Destination>Anthrocon>2020
In reply to this message
Good spot
?
09:30
ππ£ππ€ππππ ππ£π Γ
In reply to this message
Standard for this con. I did art, event planning and running, executive planning, decorations, registration, convention operations, and more.
S
S
?
09:31
ππ£ππ€ππππ ππ£π Γ
In reply to this message
I didnβt even have an official title, but I contributed significantly.
AH
09:31
Amy Hopwood [READ BIO] π
In reply to this message
I agree. Each of those titles alone is a lot for one critter to manage, let alone combined x-x Not that I doubt Razβs passion or ability, but itβs a lot to chew in one bite.
::
09:31
:Loading:Zeska.... Complete :\Loading Destination>Anthrocon>2020
In reply to this message
Way to many roles.
S
09:31
Spazzy the candy cat
It needs more staff member
R
09:31
R Ξ Z / Ξ T H
A lot of people had their hands in a lot of things.
::
09:31
:Loading:Zeska.... Complete :\Loading Destination>Anthrocon>2020
In reply to this message
Which can become very unorganized
R
09:31
R Ξ Z / Ξ T H
We were severely understaffed and whether not enough effort to find staff was made or we were genuinely unable to find people hasn't been discussed
09:32
So doing that much for one person won't be happening again
?
09:32
ππ£ππ€ππππ ππ£π Γ
In reply to this message
It was extremely disorganized. There was no rhyme or reason and up until the last month, maybe four people were legitimately involved as staff.
::
09:33
:Loading:Zeska.... Complete :\Loading Destination>Anthrocon>2020
In reply to this message
Which is the same shit that caused chernobyl. Lazyness and being cheap. Unfortunately BUT once something major happens it can always put people
Back in track.
Back in track.
09:33
I dont think nitro was being lazy i am just saying things where done to late
A
09:34
AbzΓ» [π¨π¦]
I am curious as to how much was spent on convention merch. I didn't even know there was any because there was no con store in the DD..
::
09:34
:Loading:Zeska.... Complete :\Loading Destination>Anthrocon>2020
I saw it myself on how many corners where cutt to save time and money which is ok but the wrong this where cut
R
?
09:34
ππ£ππ€ππππ ππ£π Γ
In reply to this message
Several major things happened. I am not confident that they have the necessary experience and leadership as of right now to successfully run this convention. As I see it, the only way to get this sorted is to bring in a chair who knows what the fuck theyβre doing. But good luck doing that
AH
09:35
Amy Hopwood [READ BIO] π
Thatβs my main concern; where did all the at-the-door sales revenue end up being allotted if not to the cost of the hotel?
?
09:35
ππ£ππ€ππππ ππ£π Γ
In reply to this message
We had only one year to prepare for a furry convention.
S
A
09:35
AbzΓ» [π¨π¦]
In reply to this message
never saw it, or if it was there, it was completely over looked by the mess of pink
::
09:35
:Loading:Zeska.... Complete :\Loading Destination>Anthrocon>2020
In reply to this message
Then the con should of started in 2021
R
?
09:35
ππ£ππ€ππππ ππ£π Γ
In reply to this message
Of course it shouldβve
09:35
I said that from the start
S
R
09:36
R Ξ Z / Ξ T H
In reply to this message
Correct. The decision to do it in under a year was too ambitious.
A
09:36
AbzΓ» [π¨π¦]
In reply to this message
thats what i thought. there was no banner or anythiung indicating a con store, and i was a vendor.
S
?
09:36
ππ£ππ€ππππ ππ£π Γ
In reply to this message
Sticker
Not included, change data exporting settings to download.
πΆ, 16.3 KB
S
?
09:36
ππ£ππ€ππππ ππ£π Γ
So much stuff wasnβt labeled it was all so last-minute
A
09:36
AbzΓ» [π¨π¦]
maybe the pink booth next to it should have been yeeted
09:36
and moved to a different end of the room
::
09:36
:Loading:Zeska.... Complete :\Loading Destination>Anthrocon>2020
Unfortunately know we have a mess on our hands but agree. Nitro should stay as chairman but we need a good president for control.
?
A
09:37
AbzΓ» [π¨π¦]
might as well make me con chair at that point
09:37
lolololololol
AH
09:37
Amy Hopwood [READ BIO] π
In reply to this message
Iβm with you in this, I would not attend a con with him in the lead.
?
09:37
ππ£ππ€ππππ ππ£π Γ
he needs to stay as president and they need to bring in an experienced chair
A
09:37
AbzΓ» [π¨π¦]
still writing this review.
::
09:37
:Loading:Zeska.... Complete :\Loading Destination>Anthrocon>2020
In reply to this message
Ok i will agree then
?
09:37
ππ£ππ€ππππ ππ£π Γ
In reply to this message
It absolutely shouldβve. No staff member should have had their own booth in the DD
S
S
09:38
Sylox (busy)
In reply to this message
You all honestly need someone with experience to chair the con
::
09:38
:Loading:Zeska.... Complete :\Loading Destination>Anthrocon>2020
Which is hard to come by
?
09:38
ππ£ππ€ππππ ππ£π Γ
In reply to this message
They had someone who wouldβve been able to make it work, with connections, resources, professional experience
09:38
They wouldnβt stand behind him
S
09:39
I mean he seems like a nice dude but he fugged up bad
?
S
09:39
Spazzy the candy cat
No ntiro
R
09:39
R Ξ Z / Ξ T H
Nitro
S
09:39
Sylox (busy)
In reply to this message
Experience doesn't simply mean, they've run cons before. Ultra was experienced, never ran a con before.
S
09:39
Spazzy the candy cat
Ultra is a cool dude
?
N
09:39
NOT A PIGEON (They/them)
Also thank you @razethion for being able to hold conversations with us and explain things
S
09:40
Sylox (busy)
You may find that that experienced person is on staff or you may need to reach out and ask around
R
09:40
R Ξ Z / Ξ T H
I'm at work I shouldn't even be doing this
09:40
Its wild
N
09:40
NOT A PIGEON (They/them)
We really appreciate not being told "everythings fine stop asking questions"
::
09:40
:Loading:Zeska.... Complete :\Loading Destination>Anthrocon>2020
In reply to this message
Same haah
S
BM
09:40
Border-Aussie Midnight
Sticker
Not included, change data exporting settings to download.
β€οΈ, 43.8 KB
S
?
09:40
ππ£ππ€ππππ ππ£π Γ
In reply to this message
^^^^ thank you @razethion
S
09:40
Sylox (busy)
For real, thank you for being transparent and willing to answer questions
AH
09:41
Amy Hopwood [READ BIO] π
In reply to this message
Sticker
Not included, change data exporting settings to download.
π, 38.0 KB
R
09:41
R Ξ Z / Ξ T H
Sticker
Not included, change data exporting settings to download.
π, 11.1 KB
09:41
Sticker
Not included, change data exporting settings to download.
β€, 30.3 KB
?
S
A
09:42
AbzΓ» [π¨π¦]
Sticker
Not included, change data exporting settings to download.
π, 22.6 KB
S
09:42
Spazzy the candy cat
There has been a lot of "were gonna release a statement wait till then ' that's its
R
S
09:42
Spazzy the candy cat
Not enough good pr
S
AH
09:43
Amy Hopwood [READ BIO] π
In reply to this message
Itβs been more damage control that good PR unfortunately
09:43
Than*
R
09:43
R Ξ Z / Ξ T H
In reply to this message
(thats because our pr guy stepped down due to rumours & stress; we have been actively looking for a replacement)
S
09:43
Tripp
09:43
?
DA
09:43
Draco Alzrentu
If I may inject my opinion, I think the first thing that needs to be done is a complete restructure of the organisation. You need a chain of command, that includes officers and con directors (main events/security/charity/etc) with job descriptions and expectations. It looks like too many people took on too many roles and were overworked. Once you have that, then focus on filling those roles. Take notes of the criticisms of this chat, but you canβt make an attempt to fix the issues without a staff all on the same page. Nitro and Cinnamon could work together on that, then work on an application process to get good qualified individuals to fit those roles. Only then can you work on the meat of the issues that arose and plan for a successful new year.
Too much drama and not enough action taken is what Iβve been noticing.
Too much drama and not enough action taken is what Iβve been noticing.
S
DA
09:44
Draco Alzrentu
Sorry I took too long, hard for me to type fast and at the pace of the chat...
S
?
09:44
ππ£ππ€ππππ ππ£π Γ
In reply to this message
Yeah this is a summary of what the plan has been
R
AH
A
09:46
AbzΓ» [π¨π¦]
oh boy, on the dealers den part of the review.
09:46
how did you guys like the dealers den?
R
09:46
R Ξ Z / Ξ T H
In reply to this message
i refuse to answer this question on the grounds that i may incriminate myself
S
09:47
Sylox (busy)
DD/AA was fine
AH
S
09:47
Sylox (busy)
Nice size for a first year con
A
S
09:47
Sylox (busy)
In reply to this message
No, an attendee but I enjoyed the offerings that were present
A
R
09:48
R Ξ Z / Ξ T H
For attendees it was fine. For dealers it was not.
A
09:48
AbzΓ» [π¨π¦]
I was a vendor, so far my worst experience as a dealer
09:48
vendor, dealer, worrrrrrds
R
09:49
R Ξ Z / Ξ T H
english is hard
A
09:50
AbzΓ» [π¨π¦]
schedule kept changing, dealers den dinner was a thing then wasn't then was again, vendors left or never even showed, person running the den was very inapproprite when public speaking and was very rude when talking to other vendors. I am putting the details in my review,
09:50
I ALSO NEVER GOT MY DEALER BADGE
S
A
09:52
AbzΓ» [π¨π¦]
my friend found it on the floor on the last day in front of a certain pink booth
L
09:53
Lifty πΊ
Was there a map posted in the DD?
09:53
I did notice the map was posted on Twitter, but the watermark made it illegible.
A
09:54
AbzΓ» [π¨π¦]
yes,
09:54
it was in 72ppi and had a low opacity blue over the whole thing
L
A
09:56
AbzΓ» [π¨π¦]
yea
09:56
it was made on a lil app on someones phone.
S
09:57
Sylox (busy)
Also will you all print conbooks next year, or will it reamain online?
09:57
Because I had issues with the website not functioning at times and it was hard to find panels or when things were going on with a website that wouldn't function
?
09:59
ππ£ππ€ππππ ππ£π Γ
I was against the con book being completely digital
09:59
People like to take con books home as a souvenir
Z
10:00
ZenoTheZebra
Save the trees
A
10:00
AbzΓ» [π¨π¦]
printing it wasn't in the budget
?
S
10:00
Sylox (busy)
Gotcha
?
10:01
ππ£ππ€ππππ ππ£π Γ
In reply to this message
Who said we wouldnβt be using recycled paper? π€
Jk but like... I did an illustration for the con book cover that took me about twelve hours total, and it was only posted the 2nd day and only then because I worked hard to get it posted
Jk but like... I did an illustration for the con book cover that took me about twelve hours total, and it was only posted the 2nd day and only then because I worked hard to get it posted
10:01
If i hadnβt busted my ass it wouldnβt have been posted at all
10:01
I formatted it saturday morning
S
10:02
Sylox (busy)
Well a con book would be nice but I understand if budget constraints wont make that possible, just an idea
?
10:02
ππ£ππ€ππππ ππ£π Γ
Budget is a moot point because the finances were entirely mismanaged
N
10:03
NOT A PIGEON (They/them)
Are you going to pay back the people who helped with the 5k?
L
10:04
Lifty πΊ
In reply to this message
Hold up. I remember $450 being budgeted for conbooks. Was that just repurposed to something else?
?
10:04
Almost certainly
R
10:04
R Ξ Z / Ξ T H
In reply to this message
Everybody will be paid back before the convention happens again.
N
L
10:05
Lifty πΊ
In reply to this message
Okay. Even back then I thought $450 was a paltry sum for conbooks
R
10:05
R Ξ Z / Ξ T H
In reply to this message
I - don't actually know how accurate this is. I can investigate that when I get home.
L
?
10:06
ππ£ππ€ππππ ππ£π Γ
When they asked me to make the cover I was under the impression that they were being printed
N
10:06
NOT A PIGEON (They/them)
How about President and Vice president trying to convince someone they donated money so they wouldn't have to pay them back and then proceeding to tell others that was the case
?
10:06
ππ£ππ€ππππ ππ£π Γ
I was only informed afterwards that it would be digital
R
L
10:07
Lifty πΊ
Okay.
BM
10:07
Border-Aussie Midnight
I mean the monetary transactions if any that were discussed with individuals and or things donated were between said parties. I'd suspect that they would stay the same as well.
L
10:08
Lifty πΊ
It's possible that they planned to spend no more than $450 for conbooks but no money was actually set aside.
R
L
10:08
Lifty πΊ
If that was the case, could've fooled me.
Z
10:08
ZenoTheZebra
Tbh if you arenβt involved with the budget donβt worry about it I donβt think thatβs someone thatβs non staff should worry about
R
10:08
R Ξ Z / Ξ T H
I don't actually know.
BM
10:08
Border-Aussie Midnight
Also may be true or not however in lieu of said financials it was noted that there was a lifetime membership badge offered as well.
?
10:08
ππ£ππ€ππππ ππ£π Γ
In reply to this message
The whole point of this chat is worrying about it and asking questions
BM
10:09
Border-Aussie Midnight
In reply to this message
Correct, however I can only relay what information I heard and as for this not saying I'm involved with it however I've every right to worry about it as an attendee per say.
L
10:09
Lifty πΊ
In reply to this message
A lifetime membership is something aloof for a first-year convention to consider offering.
BM
10:10
Border-Aussie Midnight
However the remainder of the fact that things were in fact handled, how so I'm not sure at this juncture I do know that it was.
Z
10:10
ZenoTheZebra
I understand it is but that to me feels like a issue for the con and the staff and people who are involved with it
?
10:11
ππ£ππ€ππππ ππ£π Γ
In reply to this message
this chat exists for attendees and other with concerns to be transparent and open with the staff about problems surrounding the convention
10:11
and vice versa
10:11
for the staff to be transparent with those people
BM
10:11
Border-Aussie Midnight
In reply to this message
This may be so, however this quick on their feet thinking did in fact allow the convention to carry on so props to that.
?
BM
10:13
Border-Aussie Midnight
There were so many that did so many amazing things to save this convention, quick thinking and using finite resources on the fly as well as some pretty creative problem solving. And yah not all of it was bad, for the most part the convention went on transparently to most.
?
10:13
ππ£ππ€ππππ ππ£π Γ
In reply to this message
the bad shit happened after the con tbh. the con itself ran well for being first year
BM
10:14
Border-Aussie Midnight
In reply to this message
Sticker
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π, 32.1 KB
10:14
I did thank every staff that I could for helping, only because I knew it was a war zone behind the scenes TBH
10:16
I realize that this chat is for being transparent, but really constructive criticism will help the convention move forward not "He said, she said" or reshasing things that have already been handled.
10:18
I'm not STAFF, let me repeat that...I'M NOT STAFF....I'm just assisting with this on the back end where I can. Sure I see both sides and yah there were a lot of screw up's that happened. But ya know what nothing so serious it can't be fixed.
S
10:21
Sylox (busy)
Welp I'm gonna go and do some errands, I think i saw alot of good suggestions and important issues raised this morning and early afternoon.
P
10:24
Papaya Tiger/Cinnamon Fennec
In reply to this message
We appreciate everyone chipping in and giving us honest feedback. Thank you
BM
10:25
Border-Aussie Midnight
Sticker
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β€οΈ, 43.8 KB
R Ξ Z / Ξ T H changed group title to «CCFC Feedback Chat»
R
10:33
R Ξ Z / Ξ T H
(updated the info)
A
11:09
AbzΓ» [π¨π¦]
OK i am done the review, hopefully I covered enough.
S
11:15
Spazzy the candy cat
Okay done with doc appointment
::
11:15
:Loading:Zeska.... Complete :\Loading Destination>Anthrocon>2020
In reply to this message
Nice
C
11:16
Citrus DogMom Corkie
I do wanna ask. Isnt one of the mascots a literal persons oc?
::
C
11:17
Citrus DogMom Corkie
Ok but w h y
S
::
11:17
:Loading:Zeska.... Complete :\Loading Destination>Anthrocon>2020
Why not. If the owner would like that then so be it.
S
11:17
Spazzy the candy cat
I guess
A
11:18
AbzΓ» [π¨π¦]
if anything NSFW happens with that mascot, it'll make the con look bad
C
S
11:19
Spazzy the candy cat
Yeah
C
11:19
Citrus DogMom Corkie
A mascot should be just that. A mascot of a company or con not.. a persons sona
11:19
I love my oc, shed be beautiful as a mascot. But thats not what shes for.
11:19
Id make a mascot for whatever con instead of using one i have
::
11:20
:Loading:Zeska.... Complete :\Loading Destination>Anthrocon>2020
Still the owner decided that. Its not for us to choose
C
?
11:20
πNITROπ
Which mascara are you guys talking about thereβs two of them
A
11:20
AbzΓ» [π¨π¦]
60% of con merch is of that character
S
11:20
Spazzy the candy cat
Bean
C
A
11:20
AbzΓ» [π¨π¦]
that character should belong to the con
11:20
does it?
S
?
11:21
πNITROπ
Bean was a year one thing, the Actual mascot is the deer
C
11:21
Citrus DogMom Corkie
In reply to this message
Sticker
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π€, 26.6 KB
11:21
Way
11:21
Why not just
11:22
Have 2 mascots for con art and merch...
11:22
And then draw with staff ocs
?
11:22
πNITROπ
That is a good idea π‘
C
11:22
Citrus DogMom Corkie
A TON of cons do that, hell my first year is. We have the 2 mascots and staff ocs in the background of official pieces
11:22
Cause with the persons oc on a bunch of merch its kinda
11:22
Not personal to the con at all yknow
11:23
You see it and go: oh cat. Cute.
Not, Oh! Ccfc!
Not, Oh! Ccfc!
?
11:23
πNITROπ
We have this one that @flynnecat created that is going to replace bean for year 2
C
11:23
Citrus DogMom Corkie
Id keep them then
S
11:23
Spazzy the candy cat
Ah
C
11:24
Citrus DogMom Corkie
The deer and that
?
11:24
πNITROπ
?
11:24
ππ£ππ€ππππ ππ£π Γ
hereβs the art i did for the con. i designed the deer mascot.
?
11:24
ππ£ππ€ππππ ππ£π Γ
?
ππ£ππ€ππππ ππ£π Γ 16.01.2020 08:06:25
11:24
11:24
11:24
11:24
11:24
11:24
?
?
11:26
ππ£ππ€ππππ ππ£π Γ
In reply to this message
i did it after the con but it was never posted to twitter
?
N
S
11:43
Sai / Ma-mow @ ??
was there a reason yall chose a deer? its a really nice design but when I see deer con merch i immediately see Anthro new england
C
11:44
Citrus DogMom Corkie
In reply to this message
Tbf, its hard to keep with an original mascot with how many cons there are
11:44
I mean, theres tons of canine mascots, just different designs
S
11:45
Sai / Ma-mow @ ??
In reply to this message
most definately it just that con is in the same region, thats why I was wondering
C
11:45
Citrus DogMom Corkie
In reply to this message
Oh is it? Ok that makes more sense for your question then haha
S
11:46
Sai / Ma-mow @ ??
both are northeast cons, ane is the big boston con
11:49
also I have a question regarding the day pass selling and then allowing anyone to attend for free the one night? Was reg open before that point?
N
12:03
NOT A PIGEON (They/them)
I have also heard that hardly anyone was checking badges at the convention. I understand you are a small con but badge checks should be a thing regardless
12:03
You don't want to end up like FAU where people just go to hang out in the lobby and not pay registration
R
A
12:05
AbzΓ» [π¨π¦]
Can't go to the dances without a ticket.
R
12:06
R Ξ Z / Ξ T H
We did have main events staffed (at least during the dances) to check badges, I can't say for other events, if anybody can confirm.
::
12:06
:Loading:Zeska.... Complete :\Loading Destination>Anthrocon>2020
In reply to this message
Did not see anyone
12:06
Game room was open aswell as panels
N
12:07
NOT A PIGEON (They/them)
In reply to this message
Not what I mean: "lobbycon" means people don't attend your convention because there's nothing there for attendees but a lobby to hang out and chat in. People show up but don't pay just chill outside
A
12:07
AbzΓ» [π¨π¦]
There was a small issue with dealers den not checking badges but it was mostly hotel staff and they were looking to buy my stuff so I kinda didn't care. Lol.
R
12:07
R Ξ Z / Ξ T H
In reply to this message
This happens everywhere. We can't tell people they can't be in the hotel.
N
12:08
NOT A PIGEON (They/them)
If you like I can also provide you with individuals whom you need to be on guard when they register as well
C
12:08
Citrus DogMom Corkie
Tbf, blfc didnt really check badges and you had access to basically everything except like rooms
12:09
In reply to this message
I mean they checked badges to rooms but its just a lot of hotel space if you aint got one
N
12:21
NOT A PIGEON (They/them)
Might I also make a suggestion: become more active in your surrounding chats
12:21
State chats specifically
12:22
Build a connection and reputation with them if you get in good then they may advertise your convention
S
12:28
This caused alot of confusion and distaste
12:30
In reply to this message
This ^ hardly any of the nj state chats really know what this event was minus a small handful of folks
N
12:44
NOT A PIGEON (They/them)
In reply to this message
Those who do know about it unfortunately know more bad things than good
S
13:21
Sylox (busy)
In reply to this message
That's how it was down here in Maryland. More of an after thought, not taken seriously.
Getting active in the community surrounding your con will build bridges and help to get your name out there.
Getting active in the community surrounding your con will build bridges and help to get your name out there.
Mel joined group by link from πNITROπ
?
13:37
ππ£ππ€ππππ ππ£π Γ
In reply to this message
because the antlers made up the CCFC logo, it worked well design-wise
Di
13:48
Drinz is single and ready to fucking cry
In reply to this message
This is my sentiment as well. I admit I'm biased in regards to Flynne (she's my gf and the best person in the world etc) but nobody can deny that she was absolutely instrumental in the running of the con. She and Ultra are the reason why the con happened at all. There's a reason they were appointed as chair and co chair. They're incredibly competent and skilled, and I genuinely don't think this con will survive without them.
C
Finnegan π joined group by link from πNITROπ
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N
14:00
NOT A PIGEON (They/them)
I think that's something everyone can get behind
Z
14:07
ZenoTheZebra
Lol
M
14:22
Maxim
I never noticed the letters in the antlers....
C
?
14:41
ππ£ππ€ππππ ππ£π Γ
In reply to this message
Jingles, our graphic designer, was absolutely brilliant.
Z
15:57
Zerotheliger is typing...
In reply to this message
ok hold up you should not be putting that much work load on yourself
15:57
thats what led to staff running around like chickens with thier heads cut off before. dont overwork yourselfs.
Di
16:05
Drinz is single and ready to fucking cry
In reply to this message
Side note, Oble (person who had a DD booth AND was running DD) was a huge problem in almost everything she did. If she's not already cut from staff, then this con is absolutely 200% hopeless and deserves to be shut down.
I roomed with Oble. On a personal note, she was a NIGHTMARE. Literally. Her sleep issues forced me to wear earplugs. That sounds like a direct attack, but I mention it because when confronted with anything she did including that, all she'd do was puppy dog eyes and vague statements about her medical conditions excusing all of her behavior. Out of everything that happened at the con, I most regret interacting with her a few times. I can only imagine how horrible it must have been for the dealers and vendors all weekend!
I roomed with Oble. On a personal note, she was a NIGHTMARE. Literally. Her sleep issues forced me to wear earplugs. That sounds like a direct attack, but I mention it because when confronted with anything she did including that, all she'd do was puppy dog eyes and vague statements about her medical conditions excusing all of her behavior. Out of everything that happened at the con, I most regret interacting with her a few times. I can only imagine how horrible it must have been for the dealers and vendors all weekend!
16:07
In reply to this message
Not to mention she literally smeared chocolate cake on Tripp's face during the GOH dinner as a childish "happy birthday" prank. She was the most immature person I've seen in the fandom in years, and that's really saying something!
Z
16:09
who the heck does that
16:09
tripp aint a baby and thats not thier kid
Z
16:11
ZenoTheZebra
Was oble that pink panda with the long ass tongue
16:11
I donβt remember
S
Z
16:12
Zerotheliger is typing...
hey sylox how would you feel if i came up to you and smeared cake on your face. i mean we know each other a little bit..
S
16:12
Sylox (busy)
I would feel uncomfortable
Z
16:13
Zerotheliger is typing...
yeah...
16:13
i feel really sorry for tripp the entire time
Z
16:13
ZenoTheZebra
Thatβs a bit messed up tbh
Z
16:14
Zerotheliger is typing...
tripp was overworked, made uncomfortable, and finally he sees people that were his friends being called out or kicked from the con etc.
16:14
it was his first time ever doing anything like this.
Di
16:15
Drinz is single and ready to fucking cry
In reply to this message
Huh. I'm just now noticing that and I'm dating the (at the time) lead art person. Then again, that might just be because I'm a bird brain. :V
Z
C
16:15
Citrus DogMom Corkie
In reply to this message
I bought a plush from her and she never shipped it and ghosted me :)
Z
16:15
Zerotheliger is typing...
so dont feel bad
C
16:16
Citrus DogMom Corkie
I did a chargeback thru paypal
Z
16:16
ZenoTheZebra
....
C
16:17
Citrus DogMom Corkie
I waited 6 months for a premade pillow. Like just ship the damn thing
Z
16:17
ZenoTheZebra
I was a bit creeped about her walking around barefoot in the dealers den
Z
C
16:17
Citrus DogMom Corkie
Or-
Z
16:17
Zerotheliger is typing...
this person?
C
Z
16:17
ZenoTheZebra
Yeah
C
16:17
Citrus DogMom Corkie
Ew
Di
16:17
Drinz is single and ready to fucking cry
In reply to this message
Oble acted like a literal child both on and off duty. I have a plethora of stories I could tell, but I won't for the sake of the chat.
Regardless, I'm pretty sure she's not being invited back as staff, and personally I'd be opposed to seeing her as a dealer, especially considering how much the other dealers vocally dislike her.
Regardless, I'm pretty sure she's not being invited back as staff, and personally I'd be opposed to seeing her as a dealer, especially considering how much the other dealers vocally dislike her.
A