1
00:00:31,000 --> 00:03:27,000
Speaker 1: Okay, I'm trying to figure out my microphone situation here. This is the first time I've... I don't think my shit's working. Where's my settings? Space settings. OK, I think I'm having issues. Hello, hello, hello, hello. I think I'm having issues. Fuck. I can't. give me a second guys this is the first time i'm doing this on my computer Let me make... Man, yeah, this is way confusing on the fucking computer. Please bear with me. How do I make spook? Okay, I'm just going to do this on my phone. If y'all can hear me, give me a second because this is really... completely different on the I was attempting to do on my computer, but obviously it was not working. So I just, I guess I'm gonna have to do this I figured it would be easier on the computer, but I I can't find any of the buttons find easily on the phone here. So yeah, I'll just do this on my phone. Big shout out to Dark Spooky in the house for co-hosting this with me. For those of you that don't know the history with FDM arms and all that, he's right. He did make a couple of comments. where he came to bat for me when the community was me and attacking me so that this is the only reason why I even that we've considered hosting this is to give them a chance to speak. has dug himself hole and just kept on digging. to the point where I want to say he is very much so liked at the moment. Welcome. Whenever you're ready to speak, go ahead and send a request. Dark Spooky, for those that have no idea what's going on here, can you just kind of give us a brief summary of what these documents are about, what this whole catalog being a company or document? To me as an outsider looking in, it just really-- The man wants a little bit. And maybe some click bait. I mean, the man got a blue check mark. Maybe he's just looking for some dollars. I don't know. I don't know exactly what's going on.

2
00:03:28,000 --> 00:03:29,000
Speaker 2: - That's why.

3
00:03:29,000 --> 00:03:32,000
Speaker 1: We're all here. So dark spooky.

4
00:03:34,000 --> 00:03:35,000
Speaker 3: Thank you.

5
00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:44,000
Speaker 4: How's it going? FYI, you are double speaking right now. We can hear you twice. You might have a mic that's still.

6
00:03:51,000 --> 00:03:53,000
Speaker 5: Oh.

7
00:03:55,000 --> 00:04:20,000
Speaker 4: - I did it. So I am not too intrinsically involved in this whole situation. an outsider looking in the way I understand the was taking files that were already made previously freely basically just ripping them off. from the website, and then upload

8
00:04:21,000 --> 00:04:23,000
Speaker 6: I had.

9
00:04:23,000 --> 00:05:39,000
Speaker 4: sometimes behind their own-- designers' user profiles that are not made by that user. So it's like, I have a profile on there, and THEY PUT ALL THE FILE HAND THE PICTURE. So you have to be a member on DefCAD So the way I understood the legal proceedings that happened I believe, and someone can correct I absolutely could be wrong. told Matt, hey, problem with it, sue me. So... along with I think some of the maybe one being Ivan and copyrighted those project files. They took the design. They copyrighted them. made it explicitly clear that those files were copyrighted on every in that distro and then release it on the catalog It was--

10
00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:41,000
Speaker 7: to deny that.

11
00:05:42,000 --> 00:06:05,000
Speaker 4: Now, Cody, immediately took the bait and published those files on his website. And I believe, as I recall, reading from the lawsuit, I believe he also deleted all the attribution and copyright those files. So he made it explicitly clear he was not by the copyright law

12
00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:07,000
Speaker 8: and stealing those files.

13
00:06:09,000 --> 00:06:23,000
Speaker 4: Matt do? He filed a lawsuit against FK. to, you're taking your files You don't have the rights to put them behind your wall

14
00:06:25,000 --> 00:06:28,000
Speaker 9: Ba-ba-ba-ba-ba.

15
00:06:29,000 --> 00:06:35,000
Speaker 4: notions in there, but it's been so long since I read the Someone's talking. Is that you, Ralph?

16
00:06:36,000 --> 00:06:37,000
Speaker 10: No, no, right?

17
00:06:39,000 --> 00:07:06,000
Speaker 4: in the background. Anyway, there were some other notions in that lawsuit, but it's been a while since I've read it, but I'm not really too familiar. someone else might be able to jump in and give us a better recap of it. But that was my understanding. And then Cody recently... the counterclaim to that lawsuit. Basically saying that the God-aligned intent on DEFCAD's business? and that we were conspiring to do that.

18
00:07:07,000 --> 00:07:54,000
Speaker 1: And that's my extent of what I know about this situation. - Right on, thank you for the summary. So just to try to keep things organized here, we will have only one speaker at a time. So if you are not a speaker, I would appreciate it if you could mute your microphone just to give everyone a fair chance to speak without being spoken over. With that being said, I will give FDA the floor here he has requested to speak and uh fdm you're the man of if not the day, if not the week, You have to unmute your microphone.

19
00:07:56,000 --> 00:07:58,000
Speaker 2: week.

20
00:07:59,000 --> 00:08:57,000
Speaker 1: FDM arms, ladies and gentlemen. Mic on the bottom left corner of your Amen. I wonder if he's on desktop. Yeah, I was having a hard time on the on the desktop. I went back to my phone. He's unmuted. Wait, wait. Does it work? No, there we go. Ladies and gentlemen, FDM Arms in the house. Go ahead and let us know your side of... man, what is going on? What would you like to know? What do you think is going on as far as these documents? I personally have not read them. It sounds like you did and you have an interpretation. take is on that. first and foremost I want to say that

21
00:08:58,000 --> 00:09:09,000
Speaker 10: as a member of, are we cool yet? My views don't necessarily reflect everyone else. And I have not been, you know, told to say this, but I don't want to get,

22
00:09:10,000 --> 00:09:11,000
Speaker 7: - Anybody catching heat?

23
00:09:14,000 --> 00:09:16,000
Speaker 10: clear but

24
00:09:17,000 --> 00:09:20,000
Speaker 1: With that said, I haven't read...

25
00:09:21,000 --> 00:09:33,000
Speaker 10: I read it a couple times, breezed over it. I think the catalog's wrong. to be, it's going to take time. You know, we're going to

26
00:09:33,000 --> 00:09:35,000
Speaker 2: seeing a lot more stuff

27
00:09:37,000 --> 00:09:39,000
Speaker 7: or so days, uh,

28
00:09:40,000 --> 00:09:44,000
Speaker 10: And we're just going to have to see then. I mean, it's the bottom line.

29
00:09:45,000 --> 00:10:24,000
Speaker 1: We can sit here and we can argue ITAR and all this other stuff. the lawyers decide at this point? Okay. I guess my question, uh, would be, uh, here. Why are you defending someone who has to, for lack of better, That's a good question. as best as I can

30
00:10:25,000 --> 00:10:26,000
Speaker 10: You know, I've been around

31
00:10:28,000 --> 00:10:29,000
Speaker 4: And I don't know.

32
00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:31,000
Speaker 10: kind of

33
00:10:33,000 --> 00:10:43,000
Speaker 1: people all this other shit. And you know,

34
00:10:44,000 --> 00:10:45,000
Speaker 2: point would be that

35
00:10:46,000 --> 00:10:54,000
Speaker 1: Chad and Cody have done more for this space as far as, you know, fighting in the courts and et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

36
00:10:55,000 --> 00:10:56,000
Speaker 2: then 99.9.

37
00:10:57,000 --> 00:11:00,000
Speaker 1: of people here. You know, he's

38
00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:04,000
Speaker 2: this villain everyone makes him out to be.

39
00:11:05,000 --> 00:11:10,000
Speaker 7: And we can go into the, I'm not going to go into it, the whole, he's a pedo, he's a pedo.

40
00:11:13,000 --> 00:11:17,000
Speaker 2: Offender, you got it It's

41
00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:20,000
Speaker 1: They're trying to make something out of knowledge.

42
00:11:20,000 --> 00:11:21,000
Speaker 2: - Yeah.

43
00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:24,000
Speaker 1: Anybody with half a brain...

44
00:11:25,000 --> 00:11:31,000
Speaker 10: and read the case. and I've read it a million times over and over again,

45
00:11:32,000 --> 00:13:22,000
Speaker 1: It just doesn't meet the definition. And that's not what happened. you off there for second thank you for speaking on your opinions. and how you feel about certain people and things. Someone else who has been in the space for a long time here, Marcus. That is TCB Hailstone. I'm adding you as a speaker, brother. FDM, go ahead and mute yourself, please. Marcus, I believe, has been around since the key base days. So I want to say that's like, what, four, five, six years. Marcus you are free to speak brother let us know your side of the story is FDM correct is Cody doing more Then 99% of the other... in the space, I would based on the things I've personally seen but I around for that long. I've been printing for two and a half, maybe three years. And I have seen the back and forth between groups. Once upon a time, I was part of three, I was going to say 3D, AWCY. And it's because I thought it was cool to be in the group at the time. And then I realized how easy it was to get in there. became a member I decided to boot myself So, not to downplay Zupi or anything, but I just felt like what she was doing was not exactly 3D2A, seeing as FD2A. her father was helping her with most of the printing aspects and the builds, it just kind of felt like she was just a pretty face trying to push the message, not to ZOOPI at all, but Mark is

46
00:13:28,000 --> 00:13:32,000
Speaker 3: Thank you.

47
00:13:33,000 --> 00:13:59,000
Speaker 1: Let's assume he's on desktop and he is also going through that little bit of a hiccup. Okay, we also have someone who requested here, Mayo Muncher. I don't know who this is. Let me just remind everyone. speaker, please be respectful as others will be to you. So I am making Mayo Muncher Speaker, if you say anything out of pocket, out of line, you will just be removed.

48
00:14:04,000 --> 00:14:09,000
Speaker 3: next. Thank you. And see.

49
00:14:09,000 --> 00:14:12,000
Speaker 4: I don't see Mayo Muncher anymore.

50
00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:39,000
Speaker 1: removed himself okay unseen is still as requested unseen killer has now been accepted to speak I see that unseen killer was personally attacked by a couple members. saying that he was working hand in hand with Cody Wilson from the DefCAD and-- - Yo, Ralph. - Go ahead.

51
00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:44,000
Speaker 4: I got like less than 10 minutes before I got to teach class. So here's what we're going to do.

52
00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:48,000
Speaker 2: any question you want to ask me absolutely no rules

53
00:14:50,000 --> 00:15:04,000
Speaker 1: - I personally don't have questions. moderator here. I do remember at one point you did have a post where once my account reaches this much I'm yeah okay so sorry again limited time

54
00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:18,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, I saw that everybody hated Def Cad, and I just don't give a fuck. So what I was going to take the money that they said that they were going to give me and do something nice that somehow drew the work that

55
00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:27,000
Speaker 2: so I don't really care anymore. I've got a screenshot that I'd be more than happy to share, or live screenshot. I can share during class, anybody's interested, but you can see that I've

56
00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:33,000
Speaker 1: any money for this

57
00:15:35,000 --> 00:15:57,000
Speaker 4: Your mic cut out. Oh, sorry. My screen is I'm on my phone. So I've never taken any money from death. never taken any money from anyone ever. I have accepted parts in exchange for... to dev around those parts, but no, I don't have any in the community's money.

58
00:15:58,000 --> 00:15:59,000
Speaker 2: money just fine all on my own.

59
00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:08,000
Speaker 4: I really just wanted to take all this hate and turn it around. something good for people to build more guns. That apparently was a

60
00:16:09,000 --> 00:16:11,000
Speaker 10: is a problem, but anything else?

61
00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:16,000
Speaker 1: the air here so I can get back to actually making guns. Yeah, just checking, is my work, my final

62
00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:20,000
Speaker 10: - Is it working now? - Yep, it's working. - Oh sweet.

63
00:16:21,000 --> 00:16:24,000
Speaker 3: - You go first, you go first, Unseen.

64
00:16:25,000 --> 00:16:33,000
Speaker 2: focus on this than I am. Yes, I am. Isn't it hilarious that I am? Because I'm

65
00:16:34,000 --> 00:16:43,000
Speaker 10: complaints about you. I always thought your remix of Magpul's FMG9 was pretty cool. Thanks. It needs some work. Can

66
00:16:44,000 --> 00:17:42,000
Speaker 1: - I just wanna go back to the time where Unseen Killer popped up on the scene I remember this very vividly. I believe it was... man, I'm blanking. 2022 I'm blanking on the guy's name he disappeared but he made the double Glock oh I appreciate yeah there you go so I remember I print shit had introduced you to the space I was part of his discord server I remember you popping in there a couple times and then I liked what you And I was like, hey man, I've got this file. "You think you could stipple this?" And then we kind of worked together on a collaboration. So Unseen Killer has always been like the guy who's collaborating with everyone. you as a villain or anything, but the way you came in was kind of weird. From my perspective, it just felt like you were pushing people to build felonies. And to me, that was kind of a turnoff. Like, why are you telling people to put stocks on everything?

67
00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:50,000
Speaker 10: some topics here.

68
00:17:51,000 --> 00:18:32,000
Speaker 2: You are mute brother go for it. God damn turning my screen off is just killing my mind. Yeah. So I come from I come from the gun community not the gun cad community and we're very anti ATF and NFA unless we work for an FFL and they're the the thing the mantra is put a stock on it put a foregrip on it. Fuck the ATF base. They don't give a shit. They're not going anything unless you live in one, a communist state that actually partners with the feds and actually wants to do something about it, which 90% of the fucking states don't. I mean, that's just evidence. I live in Ohio, where we are the only state

69
00:18:32,000 --> 00:18:35,000
Speaker 4: who on record tased and arrested

70
00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:56,000
Speaker 2: even more. Yeah, it's pretty fucking awesome. Unfortunately, he got a payout. He did get just recently, I think it was 1.4 million or something, but he no longer is a Fed. So that's still a net gain. Point being, no, I don't think that the federal government has any rights to tell us what we do with our guns.

71
00:18:57,000 --> 00:19:14,000
Speaker 4: I have a Republican House Senate president and a majority collection so I don't see gun laws being much of a problem for the next four years and please do what you want to do I'm not your lawyer but I always want to give people choice CAD files

72
00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:51,000
Speaker 1: I want to make sure that everybody has what they need, not only to grow, but to build and to learn. So if anybody feels like any of that's inappropriate, I would love to hear those opinions. And that's why you are a very respected individual in the space, because you do want to share this knowledge. You are willing to help others and you do have this can do attitude where someone gives you an idea and you're like, I'm going to find a way to make this work. I think that's why a lot of people still fuck with you, because we see the positive that you're bringing to the space. So,

73
00:19:51,000 --> 00:20:23,000
Speaker 2: - I got one other thing I'd like to get off my chest before I get a bounce, if that's cool, Ralph. I've been here, I think I just hit two years now. And the way that I would phrase this is, I lost most of my life. beacons of light that I had when I joined. I lost the people that I look up to, not to the government, not to the ATF or any dumb shit like that. Not that I didn't look up to Freeman, but I didn't really know the guy, so I don't have an opinion. But people left the space. They were driven away by petty things.

74
00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:29,000
Speaker 4: by drama, you know, legal threats, intellectual property disputes, blah, blah, blah.

75
00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:44,000
Speaker 2: I don't-- I'm not trying to start a business. I don't want a paycheck. That keeps this free. And when I lost the people that I looked up to, when Musseys and

76
00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:49,000
Speaker 4: when Durwood stopped developing, when SwarmTech stepped away, when J.P.

77
00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:54,000
Speaker 2: I kept losing the people that I looked up to most.

78
00:20:56,000 --> 00:20:58,000
Speaker 4: much.

79
00:20:58,000 --> 00:21:04,000
Speaker 2: taught me just infinite amounts. And because of that, I--

80
00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:14,000
Speaker 4: engage with unnecessary drama or bullies or mob mentality or which THE BEACON OF LIGHT THAT KNEW.

81
00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:15,000
Speaker 10: developers can look up.

82
00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:41,000
Speaker 4: as somebody who's going to respond truly, intelligently, pragmatically, and logically. I think that if I have to be the meat shield or the bullet all the bullying, so be it. I'm okay with that. I can live with that. I can withstand whatever negative things people wanna say about me because I'm not greedy. I'm not a pedophile. I'm not a woman. wrong.

83
00:21:42,000 --> 00:21:49,000
Speaker 1: hate the ATF and I'm going to continue saying that shit. So fuck off if you want me to put a brace on things. But besides that, pick on me all you want.

84
00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:54,000
Speaker 2: Bully me all you want. Spam your your bullshit in my comments. I'll have you muted.

85
00:21:55,000 --> 00:22:02,000
Speaker 4: I want you to have access whatever I have to say. I think that your opinions can change, but my CAD won't. I'm going to do my thing. But

86
00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:06,000
Speaker 2: And that means that I'm going to be the

87
00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:20,000
Speaker 4: of all the trolls and all the negativities that some other younger, more inexperienced, more afraid developers have the space to grow and not be bullied and picked on because they won't share the idea.

88
00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:43,000
Speaker 2: and hatred for random people and tribalism, then so be it. I will create that space for other people. But if this, if the conversation is not, growth or education or improvement. Not really interested. We all have our and judge and question.

89
00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:46,000
Speaker 3: .

90
00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:50,000
Speaker 2: We should continue exploring the potential for good

91
00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:58,000
Speaker 4: I just don't see there being bandwidth in my life between work,

92
00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:01,000
Speaker 1: My girlfriend, Gun Cad.

93
00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:15,000
Speaker 10: And then arguing about things that are all subjective, it just doesn't make sense to spend my time on it. to anybody out there who really wishes in drama. I'm sorry that I have here in a couple of minutes because I would love to

94
00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:19,000
Speaker 2: sit here and probably repeat the same thing so that next hour while people continue

95
00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:24,000
Speaker 10: - You don't have to. - The fact remains that I care.

96
00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:41,000
Speaker 4: one line of questioning for him before he leaves. Yes. Question. Do you, personally upload to DefCAD? No, no, I did. That's a good question. I did when I first started before I knew any of the Cody

97
00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:57,000
Speaker 2: stuff or the money stuff or them refusing to take stuff down stuff. I didn't know that. I probably uploaded I lost motivation very quickly when I learned that my designs would take three weeks to like two or three fucking months to get on there. Like, oh, well,

98
00:23:57,000 --> 00:24:35,000
Speaker 4: Why am I doing this if people can't have it? All right, well, fuck it, whatever. Since then, they've just begun taking everything off my Odyssey that I put up for free. Okay, so when would you say the last time you... uploaded to DefCad was just to clear the air, make sure there's no questions and if You know, I think that there was a time when I wanted to coordinate a release. And I think it was the Mac 45. And the reasoning was... Swarm Tech was releasing his Garib V2 and he had his release trailer available on these places and one of with DefCAD. And I didn't fully

99
00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:55,000
Speaker 2: on. And I was like, you know what, that's kind of cool to be able to list more than one place for somebody to and I wanted to put that in my too. And I reached out to Garrett and I said, hey man, if I upload this, do you think do the stuff to make it available on the real world.

100
00:24:56,000 --> 00:25:02,000
Speaker 10: He goes, "Yeah, man, I can do that for you." I'm like, "Cool." And then I thought Why do I care?

101
00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:12,000
Speaker 4: since he's not going anywhere, it doesn't expand the availability of the files. And anybody who's seeing that release trailer is still going to be able to

102
00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:19,000
Speaker 10: UnsoonKiller.com or Odyssey.com at whatever. So I just didn't see the point in it. Can you give us a use?

103
00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:40,000
Speaker 4: A year on that one, like when that was? - I wanna say, I'm not, I'm hazy on that one. - You're gonna be real ballparky with it, that's fine. - I've only been here for two years, so the ballpark's gonna be late 2023 to early 2024, maybe? If you look up the release date on my Odyssey of the Mac

104
00:25:40,000 --> 00:26:13,000
Speaker 1: that's the date. I am so bad at navigating Odyssey. It's not even a joke. waiting for a long time. Guys, we have nothing but time. We'll be here for hours if we have to. So if you request to speak, just know you will get a chance, but please be patient.

105
00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:37,000
Speaker 4: - Sorry, can you give us any context to why Cody said that you were developer of DefCAD. Do you think that's just - I think that's syntax. I am a developer and my files are on Defcad. - Okay. But you don't personally upload to Defcad? - No. I think the closest thing you could associate to that was at one point in time, Mr. Snow was in the hospital

106
00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:40,000
Speaker 2: and said, "Hey dude, can I do anything for you?" He goes, "Yeah."

107
00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:51,000
Speaker 10: G0 when I'm healthy again. that step file for me. And I said, sure, dude, I'll do that. So to my knowledge, that is the only...

108
00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:58,000
Speaker 2: CAD logical data that I have modified in the code.

109
00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:18,000
Speaker 4: space whatsoever. And that is available on my Odyssey. And did you say that you are collecting from Defcat? - You aren't going to. - No, I have no history I'd love to share with anybody who gives a fuck the $0 dispersed menu item on the DefCAD

110
00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:25,000
Speaker 9: - Okay, that's all I got. - Cool. - Thank you. - All right gentlemen, I gotta go teach class.

111
00:27:25,000 --> 00:28:02,000
Speaker 1: a DM on Twitter or Instagram. Unseen Killer, you're the man, brother. I appreciate you and everything you do for the community. Thank you for your time. I appreciate you coming on, man. No problem. You're welcome, boys. Have a great evening. Peace. All right. Marcus, we've been waiting to hear from you, brother. You seem like you are one of the oldest. in the space. Can you shed some light on what exactly is going on here? What is all this drama about? Did it originate way long ago? FDM ARMS, I believe, has been in this space for a very long time. Is there any credibility to what he

112
00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:04,000
Speaker 2: as

113
00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:12,000
Speaker 1: Wilson doing more than 90 other folks in the space here. Floor. - Okay, is this working now?

114
00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:18,000
Speaker 3: It's red.

115
00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:26,000
Speaker 1: Mute, unmute, and it's so stupid.

116
00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:28,000
Speaker 3: Has FDM already gone?

117
00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:55,000
Speaker 1: yet. Yeah, he spoke. All right. Well, so I might as well go ahead and throw out the For anybody who is wondering about me, I got in about the Foscat era IRC before Ivan got the whole DD2 stuff together. I transitioned over to Keybase. I was there when Muzzy was banned for allegedly not accrediting FFM. G17 frames.

118
00:28:56,000 --> 00:28:57,000
Speaker 2: I was there when Derwood quit after

119
00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:28,000
Speaker 10: accreditation and the shooting. I was there for, That was a fun time. So I've been around for longer than quite a few people. With regards to the whole DefCAD thing, the biggest question I would have with my that Cody has with regards to the catalog being quote unquote,

120
00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:30,000
Speaker 1: an illegal syndicate.

121
00:29:31,000 --> 00:30:00,000
Speaker 10: quote, impact his business would be this. How are you going to successfully base your business model off of monetizing access, monetizing controlled access to files that were in the public domain and publicly available? through outlets such as the FOSCAD repo, the print-to-way repo, etc. For anywhere between three to five years,

122
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:11,000
Speaker 1: able to get your system working again. You can't just say, oh yeah, these files, I'm going to make you pay for them. I'm going to try and boot all the people who originally performed - Great access.

123
00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:16,000
Speaker 10: I mean, his complaints against the catalog are also pretty pointless.

124
00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:19,000
Speaker 3: the fact that there are people before the catalog,

125
00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:22,000
Speaker 1: he hasn't complained about at all. The FOSCAD repo, for example,

126
00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:25,000
Speaker 10: Deuce has put that thing together five years before.

127
00:30:27,000 --> 00:31:20,000
Speaker 1: up. I know I got on the DefCAD thing and made an account there like in 2020 or so. And that was the only time the site even got working. As an outsider looking in, I remember... when I first got into the space and I remember DefCAD, and I remember going on there trying to download something, and it was all, you gotta pay for the membership, and you gotta make a profile and an account. I was like, bro, I'm not giving these motherfuckers my information to download some shit, fuck that. And I think that's most people's attitude. Like, why the fuck do you Who I am for me to download a file and I think that's a big turnoff and also a part of the whole Working with the feds, trying to just to gain information on everyone who's downloading everything?

128
00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:27,000
Speaker 10: did this? I mean, here's the thing. Regardless of whether there's any credibility,

129
00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:33,000
Speaker 1: And again, I don't want way or the other because I ultimately don't know. I'm not going to say he

130
00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:45,000
Speaker 10: because if I say he is and it turns out he's never been according to the court case that's going to come up, you know, I look like. And if I say he isn't then vice versa. I also look like an idiot.

131
00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:53,000
Speaker 1: But ultimately, I don't think it matters one way or another. What he's done is he's created a very inefficient, very unergonomic way.

132
00:31:54,000 --> 00:32:03,000
Speaker 10: to do what they'd already been able to do. You could download the Foscad repo from GitHub and it had 99.9% 99% of everything

133
00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:18,000
Speaker 1: on DefCAD in it, and you wouldn't have had to pay a single nickel towards what he was doing. If he cared about money so much, why didn't he just focus on, I don't know, why didn't he just focus on pushing for donations for legalists?

134
00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:33,000
Speaker 10: and other anti-gunners instead of trying to push DEFCAD as a big financial win when it will never be, for the reasons I stated earlier.

135
00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:35,000
Speaker 2: - Yeah.

136
00:32:36,000 --> 00:33:08,000
Speaker 1: We have Yippee-ki-yay and AG Cast here requesting to speak. Yippee was first. AG, hang in there. I will get to you, brother. Yippee, you... I know you like to be a of line here, alright? Floor is yours, brother. Alright. You are mute.

137
00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:10,000
Speaker 2: Just remember to click the ring.

138
00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:13,000
Speaker 9: - Oh, here we go. Okay, can you hear me now?

139
00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:22,000
Speaker 10: No, not trying to get out of line. that the community basically ignores i've been

140
00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:26,000
Speaker 4: since about 2018.

141
00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:28,000
Speaker 3: seen various things, not really involved

142
00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:33,000
Speaker 10: other than just you know hanging out with some of the guys for a little

143
00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:41,000
Speaker 4: But one of the issues that I've that Cody likes to make himself a victim yet

144
00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:48,000
Speaker 10: He makes himself the public target of everything that we've done. And part of the issues were

145
00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:51,000
Speaker 4: lawsuit, which creates a

146
00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:54,000
Speaker 10: around DEFCAD, it's kind of a

147
00:33:55,000 --> 00:34:06,000
Speaker 4: because of the arguments he made. It's pretty clear in the aren't controlled. Navi actually put a real good

148
00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:12,000
Speaker 10: Post out there and I have to be familiar with these regulations because of my professional career

149
00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:15,000
Speaker 4: but, um, you know,

150
00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:23,000
Speaker 10: target him for other allegations made. But if we look at him from the community and the bill of goods that he sells

151
00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:26,000
Speaker 3: had. I think there's a bunch of

152
00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:30,000
Speaker 6: that we can look at.

153
00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:34,000
Speaker 10: of paying devs is not inherently a bad thing, but he

154
00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:39,000
Speaker 3: then you've got products like the Ghost Gunner that,

155
00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:43,000
Speaker 4: really doesn't meet up to the bill of goods that it is.

156
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:57,000
Speaker 10: then he likes to push the legalities of the STLs, which he has to operate under a legal decree. or he made a settlement in court and they basically

157
00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:05,000
Speaker 4: a certain way. things like charging a fee, U.S. citizenship verification, but

158
00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:31,000
Speaker 10: It's not a case law. that he made. And the fact is, example, the Uratel. He was like, that's a violation in his little recent little rant. And then, no, no, no, no. I'm saying

159
00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:35,000
Speaker 8: I know and I'm just saying this for my point is when Cody

160
00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:37,000
Speaker 10: - He'd already have to

161
00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:39,000
Speaker 3: servers. So if he's saying that this

162
00:35:41,000 --> 00:35:43,000
Speaker 4: Why is he uploading it to his own?

163
00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:46,000
Speaker 3: So I just,

164
00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:50,000
Speaker 4: problem that, you know, okay, Ben,

165
00:35:56,000 --> 00:36:09,000
Speaker 10: the courts on you know that it's just not there. And I'm just...

166
00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:12,000
Speaker 4: I just have to say it's a bad bill of goods.

167
00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:26,000
Speaker 3: And I think he's I think he's just so used to being the center of attention to this, all of this. guns, he signs up to, you know, be interviewed so that

168
00:36:27,000 --> 00:38:53,000
Speaker 10: the attention. So he's making himself that target. Can I interject real quick? Because that raises a very important point that I'd like to point out. All right. I actually wrote, I wrote an article for this on. gun builder. And there was, because I saw an article that had previously been posted by the Australian Broadcasting Corporation. It was, you know, your standard anti-SF, nonsense paid for by an anti-gun government. And they had reached out to Cody Wilson as you know, gun cad source or counter argument or devil's advocate or whatever they've gotten him for. I pointed out very succinctly in the article, and I believe this is true for every single case in which Cody is involved, regardless of the fact that whatever the situation was with the sex crimes that's been dealt with, the fact that he was involved in legal issues. crimes that he pled guilty to a lesser charge or to the sex crime charge either. Because from my understanding, according to some articles, he was forced to register as a sex offender, even if the agreement that he had didn't require him to lose his gun rights. explicitly and implicitly to well poison any pro-gun argument that he makes or that anyone else can make in an article. deliberately anti-gun source. The best thing that Frankly walk off of the sunset. Don't do media appeals have other people take over at Defense Distributed who aren't, you know, who don't have dirt behind them or anything. and just be in the middle of the day. if he really wants to stay, preferably don't stay anymore. Because he is going to be used... the rest of his existence when he keeps going to the media as a means to well poison everything. And I don't care about any of the inner I was there for Muzzy and Ivan. I was there for V8 and Ivan. I was there when V8 booted his entire mod team. I don't care. any of that drama. This well poisoning hurts every single group, big and small, every single developer in a group and independent, and every single person who promotes it. It hurts Zoopy. She promotes gun cad stuff. It hurts Vega. She promotes gun, gun cad stuff. It hurts.

169
00:38:55,000 --> 00:39:00,000
Speaker 1: It even hurts Dr. Death when he promotes the Gun Cat stuff next to his Marlboro collection.

170
00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:06,000
Speaker 2: So the best thing that he can do is to phase himself out. Don't engage.

171
00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:34,000
Speaker 10: media and just not be involved the way that he really aggressively wants to be. If he does that, more power to him. People will stop hating. people will stop hating defense distributed as much. And I think that really needs to be the solution at this point, because if he doesn't do this, he will be used by anti-gunners as ammunition against our movement for the, until the end of time. Right on.

172
00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:50,000
Speaker 1: AG cast has been waiting the speech for a while. AG will go what you have to say and then Jenny the human looks like requested this. AG Cast, the floor is yours.

173
00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:55,000
Speaker 2: unseen killer but i guess that's a little too late for that um

174
00:39:56,000 --> 00:40:06,000
Speaker 4: I guess one of the things that I noticed was, I guess, I mean, sort of going back to at least a little bit with, was it the FMDA arms or FDM?

175
00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:08,000
Speaker 2: was something about how Gatamon

176
00:40:08,000 --> 00:40:24,000
Speaker 4: was more or less, I guess, some sort of grand ploy against Cody with all the lawsuits and everything. if we want to take Middleton's word for it, if he works for Cody or not. But he was saying something along the lines of almost kind of brass

177
00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:27,000
Speaker 7: Well, you can always tell them to bring it down.

178
00:40:28,000 --> 00:40:46,000
Speaker 4: I forgot what the exact legal term is. take something down or DMCA for DevCat, but you have to dox yourself. autonomous and then when matt more or less essentially does that does a dcm or dmca type of a

179
00:40:46,000 --> 00:40:48,000
Speaker 2: when basically that was what they were bragging of,

180
00:40:49,000 --> 00:41:01,000
Speaker 4: well now it happened like there's a a lot of things sort of i feel like i haven't been paying as much attention as i guess some people have for it i keeping a little bit of a distance for it.

181
00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:02,000
Speaker 10: - Things like, what is it?

182
00:41:03,000 --> 00:41:08,000
Speaker 7: university, it's more or less just kind of doing what the guy did. Defcat hasn't really

183
00:41:09,000 --> 00:41:11,000
Speaker 4: that's just antagonized developers

184
00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:15,000
Speaker 10: They haven't attempted to sort of push more gun building

185
00:41:16,000 --> 00:41:44,000
Speaker 4: push more, I guess, help more developers out. It's just more of kind of antagonizing the community. I'm not really sure what else to add to that. Don't forget talking to every single anti-gunner journalist ever. Oh, well, I mean, yeah, no, it's sort of, you know, it's almost like a fun bingo game, you can say. - I'm still still making fun of you. releases a diary entry yeah Wilson will be brought up but the biggest thing is again a

186
00:41:45,000 --> 00:41:56,000
Speaker 10: DevGate is really only themselves to blame for this. They really haven't done much besides just sort of just being antagonistic towards the community. It's I mean, now I guess not everyone reads their blog posts because really

187
00:41:57,000 --> 00:41:59,000
Speaker 1: Why would you? They're more like diary entries for Cody.

188
00:41:59,000 --> 00:42:07,000
Speaker 4: kind of just sad at this point when you read them, but there really isn't much community building to begin with. It's just building, I guess, just

189
00:42:07,000 --> 00:42:49,000
Speaker 10: attacking developers and more or less antagonizing them. Here's a funny thing to consider, and honestly it's worth thinking about, Back in 2014, when everything got booted off and there was the initial drama over the Liberator getting released, there was a package that initially was on DefCAD, which formed the core of the original FOSCAD repo. and otherwise supporting the research and development efforts of these devs, we potentially would have gotten something like the FGC 9 two to three years before it actually came

190
00:42:50,000 --> 00:42:56,000
Speaker 3: I mean, I believe it. Cody had a lot of

191
00:42:56,000 --> 00:43:01,000
Speaker 7: of things that he could have done with the situation. But I feel like, again, when you look at what he's done recently,

192
00:43:02,000 --> 00:43:05,000
Speaker 2: It's just more or less antagonized developers.

193
00:43:05,000 --> 00:43:53,000
Speaker 10: of a lot of developers, PLA boys, one of the more specific ones I can think of, who basically asked Cody to take down his stuff and then started And then that kind of led to a fun little thing amongst him and a bunch of other developers. A lot of developers have asked to take their stuff down and Cody just refuses. It's first starting off with "oh we'll listen to you" then it's like "well now we're just gonna be the great repo of all of 3D printed gun designs without anyone's questions" and then they're selling them too. But... I mean it's a terrible... we all do respect it's a terrible repo. I mean it's not... print 2A is far more ergonomic if you're trying to find a And it's more streamlined and it doesn't waste a bunch of time. And you can actually, it doesn't have a shitty messaging system built into it either. I mean, the biggest defense I've seen to it is, "Oh, it's just like Xbox Live," or, you know, "It's a good repo where I can almost trust it,"

194
00:43:53,000 --> 00:44:03,000
Speaker 4: there. Cody uploaded the beta files for the OK Boomer, which are not safe. He's uploaded several, there are several examples of him uploading beta files that aren't complete

195
00:44:04,000 --> 00:44:09,000
Speaker 10: So to kind of go off of, oh, well, Cody's doing, he's doing a good job by making a good repo.

196
00:44:10,000 --> 00:44:12,000
Speaker 7: No, he's not. He's posting.

197
00:44:12,000 --> 00:44:13,000
Speaker 3: jumps the gun on a lot of these

198
00:44:14,000 --> 00:44:17,000
Speaker 10: beta files and uploads them ahead of time before their release.

199
00:44:17,000 --> 00:44:20,000
Speaker 4: In fact, that should be very much discouraged.

200
00:44:20,000 --> 00:44:29,000
Speaker 10: because it's leaking not only does leaking beta files it's more or less convincing people that just don't know that these are all safe files.

201
00:44:30,000 --> 00:44:31,000
Speaker 2: of people that go to Defqad are the people

202
00:44:31,000 --> 00:44:34,000
Speaker 4: that aren't necessarily that plugged into

203
00:44:34,000 --> 00:44:39,000
Speaker 2: They're just the people that will search up 3D printed guns. They'll see an ABC article about Cody

204
00:44:39,000 --> 00:44:50,000
Speaker 10: So it's more or less preying on the ignorance of the people that are my opinion no I agree with that and I mean that's a big problem too in my opinion

205
00:44:51,000 --> 00:44:57,000
Speaker 3: that he's been such a prominent media personality for better or for worse the community has encouraged people to go

206
00:44:57,000 --> 00:45:27,000
Speaker 10: and pour over potentially incomplete projects. I mean, when I looked over the old fossilized repo like the core def cad file base that came with it about 80% that were not basically Liberator modifications were incomplete and would never have functioned if anyone had gone through the trouble to print them. And this even goes, I think, the version of the shootie that is part of that repo in question.

207
00:45:27,000 --> 00:45:45,000
Speaker 1: I don't understand why he not do anything at this point. And the Ghost Gunner has its place. Ghost Gunner has its place. If you want to just sit there and have a Ghost Gunner and mill out AR-15s or 1911 80%s, whatever, good on you for that.

208
00:45:46,000 --> 00:46:24,000
Speaker 10: I mean, that's a tiny part of the market. better off trying to do parts kits be really one expensive. Well, I mean, what you're describing is it would have been smart if he was collaborating with developers by giving developers, you know, Ghost Gunners so they can say, you know, make a unique bolt that could only really be made with a Ghost Gunner or something like that that would have done that for the KC9 it would have saved so much trouble it would have saved - So much trouble and it would have added value to the Ghost Gunner itself because, let's just be real about it, do you really care? Like you could just buy an end mill and make your own 80%ers if you really wanted to.

209
00:46:24,000 --> 00:46:31,000
Speaker 2: I've seen some of the quality of the Ghost Gunners. Yeah, it works, but it's not the cleanest cuts and it's not the best cuts.

210
00:46:31,000 --> 00:47:15,000
Speaker 10: do differently? How would you be able to add metal plates? Imagine like instead of needing the DB alloy or use Senkut Sen, you could just mill it or mill out the side plates on a Ghost Gunner. But that's not what they focused on. Instead, they focused on on more or less antagonizing developers. So no one wanted to work with it. And it doesn't help either when you consider that I don't believe there are that many ways for people to package the G code for the Ghost Gunner to make it work with other flats. pieces of hardware. So it'll only work for whatever it is that they've programmed it If they'd been able to do that, then maybe the Ghost Grunner would be used for a wider variety. of 80% like, I don't know, maybe some of those G3 flats that we saw floating around when the set me parts came

211
00:47:16,000 --> 00:48:19,000
Speaker 1: So real quick, I just want to get back to FFM. if you're still there. I just want to get some clear on a couple of things that you said. the catalog being a for-profit is, where are you getting this? I don't see any evidence of that. I do see that you made a post circling, I guess, part of the readme where pretty much it was just saying something along the lines of, you can't copy the shit or use it for commercial or subscription downloads. just saying like Cody Wilson can't take this file and you're into the catalog being a And then Zona was saying something along the lines of, making money from DefCAD because they're one of the top five most downloaded users on the clarify any of that

212
00:48:21,000 --> 00:48:24,000
Speaker 3: Yeah.

213
00:48:24,000 --> 00:48:27,000
Speaker 2: What was your first point?

214
00:48:30,000 --> 00:48:50,000
Speaker 1: much a for-profit business. Where are you getting this from? That's my opinion. I can't. But why are you like an opinion based on what? Why are you fighting that as if it's fact? you just have to wait for the court.

215
00:48:52,000 --> 00:49:18,000
Speaker 4: So let's go into that then, because clearly you know something So you're saying you know something about the guide along that were released in 28 days. It sure sounds like your work and the scenes. No, no, no, no, no, no. That's not what I said. I said, how would you know? How would anybody know? What do you mean? Dude, that is not an answer. Come on, man. Hold on. Let me point something out. This is it. Let's point out the objective

216
00:49:18,000 --> 00:50:01,000
Speaker 10: The objective facts as we know them right now. The objective fact is the GADLog has never been, the GADLog as a group has never been incorporated as a corporate organization whatsoever. The GADLog as a group has never engaged in a for profit in for profit business work for the designs that it's put forward. And the GAD log as a group has not made a single dime from releasing any files freely onto Odyssey. These are all objective facts. And when the court, you know, when the court documents get released in 28 days, they will say the exact same thing because there is no proof to contradict them. And there is no way that people contradict it. I did. Honestly, I did not say the documents would be released in 28 days. I mean, I didn't say that.

217
00:50:01,000 --> 00:50:10,000
Speaker 4: - You said something was gonna get released in 28 days. - Hold on, no more. - Yeah, in 28 days, what could the team on Co-Cup,

218
00:50:11,000 --> 00:50:20,000
Speaker 10: inside. to prove that the catalog, which is not incorporated, was incorporated as an entity, which was not

219
00:50:20,000 --> 00:50:24,000
Speaker 1: for profit, was in fact for profit, and which has never made a

220
00:50:25,000 --> 00:50:39,000
Speaker 10: files in alleged competition with Cody's DefCAD service has somehow made a dime releasing files in competition to Cody's DefCAD service. How, what in 28 days is going to come out that could potentially change

221
00:50:41,000 --> 00:50:54,000
Speaker 1: yet objective facts. Well, I mean, it's already came out. It's in the filing. You can read it. December 27th. What is the significance of December 27th? That's right. - That was significant.

222
00:50:55,000 --> 00:51:17,000
Speaker 4: a time in which you know more details would come out you sound like you know something but now you're walking it back - Why would you all of a sudden give us a date? And they'd be like, "Well, I don't know about that date. "I was just guessing." "Guessing based on what, FDM?" - Sir, I like to walk. - Well, yeah, but you could, you know, walking's great until you tripping.

223
00:51:18,000 --> 00:51:20,000
Speaker 1: straight into a signpost.

224
00:51:20,000 --> 00:51:25,000
Speaker 10: seems like what you've been doing a bit, quite frankly. I mean, I said it was my

225
00:51:25,000 --> 00:51:27,000
Speaker 1: It's my opinion that they are a

226
00:51:28,000 --> 00:51:33,000
Speaker 4: Opinions are based off of like circumstantial evidence, FDM. So you clearly know something.

227
00:51:34,000 --> 00:51:54,000
Speaker 10: out of the ether, what do you know? - Clearly, I, I think a lot of things. And you know what? 90% of the shit, I think, probably wrong. I've got a better way to put it, Ralph. I've got a much better way to put it. Think about it this way.

228
00:51:54,000 --> 00:52:01,000
Speaker 1: FDM is similar to someone who believes the earth is flat. Now we know that from every bit of evidence that we have possibly seen in

229
00:52:02,000 --> 00:52:24,000
Speaker 10: over hundreds of years of science, we know that the Earth is in fact a round spherical object. It's not flat in any way, shape, or form. It cannot be flat in any way, shape, or form. They have the right to believe it's flat. I have no issue with them believing it's flat. We're having a conversation about other things. I mean, really, the whole...

230
00:52:24,000 --> 00:52:33,000
Speaker 4: about oh the catalog are they a for-profit are they doing this is defcad they are a pro-profit fdm do they admit they are no

231
00:52:34,000 --> 00:52:36,000
Speaker 2: - Oh, of course they're not gonna admit that.

232
00:52:38,000 --> 00:52:43,000
Speaker 4: to go after their business interests. What else does that mean, dude?

233
00:52:44,000 --> 00:52:49,000
Speaker 1: I thought you said that the Gatalog was admitting they're for profit.

234
00:52:49,000 --> 00:52:55,000
Speaker 10: No, I'm sorry. Absolutely not. No. I don't know where you get that from. No, I heard you wrong. Okay.

235
00:52:55,000 --> 00:52:57,000
Speaker 2: - I hope you're done.

236
00:52:58,000 --> 00:53:05,000
Speaker 1: For profit, that's just my opinion and I think it's going to come out that they probably are for profit.

237
00:53:06,000 --> 00:53:15,000
Speaker 4: about all day long. How do you know or how do you assume to know that something's gonna come out in December 28, whatever, that's

238
00:53:16,000 --> 00:53:26,000
Speaker 1: Just reading over the documents. What documents? FDM? What specifically? Looking at your company structure.

239
00:53:27,000 --> 00:54:04,000
Speaker 4: are not your company's. forget not your company i'm just saying just looking over you know catalogs you know you know you can do this thing called link this stuff if you're if you have publicly available information you can link it and be like here you go here's the proof that catalog is working as a for-profit enterprise you say you're saying it's available i'm not trying to be rude to you i'm not either dude but you're hiding stuff you're clearly walking stuff back right now and you know hold

240
00:54:04,000 --> 00:54:33,000
Speaker 10: - No, there's more there's stuff you can look up you know about who owns what and how everything is structured and in my opinion I'm not a lawyer although I do Chastise FUD busters. We know. Yeah. I do talk to people. What's that mean, babe? I talk to attorneys. I know some attorneys, but that doesn't make

241
00:54:33,000 --> 00:54:41,000
Speaker 2: an attorney. I can think logically. I can put stuff together. Sometimes my ADHD, whew,

242
00:54:43,000 --> 00:54:44,000
Speaker 1: gets the better of me.

243
00:54:44,000 --> 00:55:17,000
Speaker 10: You can see that. You can see that in my messages like on X. I'm fucking all over the place. I have the document up. like to read what is a summary Summary one, subsections four through six. Yeah, four through nine. Because I don't think three, one through three matter. One through three is just the rehash of what defense distributed does. The fact that they're allegedly having to be handicapped by EAR. the fact that they don't want to comply

244
00:55:17,000 --> 00:55:19,000
Speaker 2: the AR if they still do, blah, blah, blah, blah.

245
00:55:19,000 --> 00:55:35,000
Speaker 1: Okay. Do they? I mean, depends on how secure you actually think their system is. Remember, per the FedCAD meme, there have been multiple scrapes that have been made of it that are now public knowledge. And interestingly enough, Cody has never gone after any of the people who've made these scrapes.

246
00:55:36,000 --> 00:56:02,000
Speaker 10: knowledge at least there's a reason there's a reason what's the reason that he hasn't gone after the uh the scraper cody cody is foss he's open source he doesn't care well then why does he have the monetary limitations there to prevent people from being able to access his files without paying. I think you're being in, you're not, you're not being genuine here. Well, no, I am. I mean, look,

247
00:56:02,000 --> 00:56:09,000
Speaker 1: I'm all about people in this. I'm all about people in GunCAD making money. The entire OSA engineering thing is built around the concept.

248
00:56:10,000 --> 00:56:38,000
Speaker 10: trying to encourage gun cat people to get more involved in commercial fire. Because I want to see one of you people become the next Browning or Colt or, you know, maybe if you sniff enough cocaine, at least George Kellgren, please. Well, you gave the reason. You know the reason why he has to charge $4.50 a month for access to the files. I mean, you know exactly what. No, I really don't. Is he just not making enough money from selling?

249
00:56:39,000 --> 00:57:38,000
Speaker 1: owners is not making money from donations from from my knowledge. It seems like that is part of the. or the agreement made in court when they were fired, so that they can verify that the folks who are downloading the are in fact US residents to try to, I guess, caught up with the whole eye tar or ear shit. I'm also thinking that FDM is saying that the Gatalog is a company is because they're kind of tied with Ivan and Control Pugh and Matt because of the MAF arms. MAF arms is like a completely different thing they sell parts kits or parts The fact that they're friends with certain people that run the catalog. I don't know if that has anything to do with it or AVEs. Is that where you're getting that from? Yes. In my opinion, in my opinion, they are all commingled. They're financial

250
00:57:41,000 --> 00:58:10,000
Speaker 10: Officers are commingled. That is my opinion. That's funny. There are many people said about DefQas and all of his companies. Should I go ahead and read the summary one, subsections four through nine now? Yeah, go for it. All right. FDM, is that good for you too? Yes, please. All right.

251
00:58:10,000 --> 00:58:28,000
Speaker 1: subsection four and if anyone wants to see this they can go to ddlegio.com slash wp slash content slash upload slash 2024 slash 11 slash doc dot dash 29 dash zero zero dash counterclaim slash dash and dash answer dot pdf try saying

252
00:58:28,000 --> 00:58:30,000
Speaker 10: I think it would be easier to

253
00:58:30,000 --> 00:58:34,000
Speaker 4: post a link? I know, but the one thing I hate about space

254
00:58:34,000 --> 00:58:38,000
Speaker 1: is that you apparently cannot just simply link

255
00:58:38,000 --> 00:58:41,000
Speaker 10: stuff in a chat for all the people in the space.

256
00:58:41,000 --> 00:59:09,000
Speaker 4: the bottom right corner of the screen has a little chat bubble. If you click that, I believe anything you comment on. He might be on desktop. Yeah, I'm on desktop. I don't see it. Well, you know, hold on. Let me let me try this. I'm gonna I'm gonna post a reply to your initial link to the space on here. Also, Ralph, just for reference, I am trying to click that chat icon right now is doing absolutely nothing. You're right. I

257
00:59:09,000 --> 00:59:26,000
Speaker 1: You know, Elon, just in case you're listening, Elon, we love the fact that you've made it to where we can do spaces. And I think that's the case for me and Ralph and... even FDM arms. And I know he's sort of got multiple people going after him right But if you could make the

258
00:59:28,000 --> 00:59:32,000
Speaker 10: would kind of make this a bit better for everybody. Just saying. - Just real quick.

259
00:59:33,000 --> 00:59:45,000
Speaker 1: that out and while you post that link wild r - The research has been to speak for a while. I'll let God bless him. he has to say.

260
00:59:46,000 --> 00:59:53,000
Speaker 4: Jenny in here. Wild arms? Get in here Jonathan, get in here. I don't know if my mic

261
00:59:53,000 --> 01:00:15,000
Speaker 10: Can you hear me? We can hear you. like Muzzy was louder on the phone and I was talking to him during the How about now? That's much a little grainy, but we hear you All right, well, I have a really bad microphone. I posted something really funny in the reply to this event. I

262
01:00:16,000 --> 01:00:17,000
Speaker 3: P.A.D. Rouse, in the showroom.

263
01:00:17,000 --> 01:00:28,000
Speaker 1: the whole space post, I guess. Because I don't have the chat bubble either. I'm on the desktop. Uh-oh, Stinky, are we talking about the guy who brings

264
01:00:28,000 --> 01:00:30,000
Speaker 8: star slash EARREG.

265
01:00:31,000 --> 01:00:32,000
Speaker 3: WCY, BLC, and friend.

266
01:00:33,000 --> 01:00:35,000
Speaker 1: Wouldn't it be funny if that guy violated it along with sanctions

267
01:00:36,000 --> 01:00:51,000
Speaker 10: and then a three minute video yep that's it yeah that's the one um so this is where he says i'm uh ddossing him and stuff but in reality Iran. The very fact

268
01:00:51,000 --> 01:00:54,000
Speaker 1: that he posted my posts

269
01:00:56,000 --> 01:01:01,000
Speaker 3: that that was me for some rate on

270
01:01:02,000 --> 01:01:08,000
Speaker 1: anything like that. I just mentioned that the service he happens to be an anti-DDoS

271
01:01:09,000 --> 01:01:15,000
Speaker 3: It's really fascinating because He's taking claims.

272
01:01:15,000 --> 01:01:19,000
Speaker 1: servers by doing that on the record.

273
01:01:20,000 --> 01:01:21,000
Speaker 5: - Okay.

274
01:01:22,000 --> 01:01:35,000
Speaker 1: in Iran. That is a problem for him. because he hosts The CAM data being on these servers outside of the country

275
01:01:36,000 --> 01:01:37,000
Speaker 9: It's a big deal.

276
01:01:38,000 --> 01:01:40,000
Speaker 2: worse of a deal, then all

277
01:01:41,000 --> 01:01:45,000
Speaker 10: When this guy makes a

278
01:01:45,000 --> 01:01:48,000
Speaker 9: of claims that he does about,

279
01:01:48,000 --> 01:01:51,000
Speaker 10: in EAR. It's very ironic.

280
01:01:52,000 --> 01:02:12,000
Speaker 1: that's all I have to say how do you know what data he's holding on You can still download the files from them, the ones that are public without logging in. So you've been inside these servers and you've seen the data that's held on them? I haven't been inside the server, no.

281
01:02:12,000 --> 01:02:18,000
Speaker 3: - I don't know what's held on the server. - Because it's a public website.

282
01:02:19,000 --> 01:02:25,000
Speaker 1: website, dude. To clarify, it is perfectly possible for JNY to see

283
01:02:26,000 --> 01:02:47,000
Speaker 10: a given file that he's downloading from the DefCAD website, is being sent from. If the IP address from that download address the server based in Iran then that means that the file is being hosted in Iran. being mirrored in Iran, which would make sense for a site that has that many downloads.

284
01:02:48,000 --> 01:03:06,000
Speaker 1: Could be. Could be. - Hosted in some fashion. So if, say he had a US server, actually stores these files. you know, that still violates it because it's transmitting the data through the Iranian server for your download.

285
01:03:07,000 --> 01:03:08,000
Speaker 10: any hacking or breaking into

286
01:03:08,000 --> 01:03:14,000
Speaker 9: I want to be very clear. All you have to do is just go to HDP, that ID

287
01:03:14,000 --> 01:03:33,000
Speaker 1: and there you go. You have a copy of the DefCAD system there. It's responding over This does not violate any weird CFAA things or any like hacking stuff. It's literally just dialing up a server like you would connect to twitter.com. You're just going to an IP address. Very simple.

288
01:03:34,000 --> 01:03:54,000
Speaker 10: actually doesn't, it's not that it violates EAR or ITAR. It doesn't violate either of those. It violates the U.S.'s embargo on a run. Interestingly enough, the Iranians presumably don't know anything about this because you'd think that since these guys reverse engineer every screw, they can get their hands on they would have tried to make a submachine gun use

289
01:03:56,000 --> 01:04:01,000
Speaker 2: - Sure, I mean, they're public. I mean, the issue with the sanctions,

290
01:04:02,000 --> 01:04:04,000
Speaker 10: with arms embargo.

291
01:04:04,000 --> 01:04:09,000
Speaker 2: The sanctions against Iran also include their

292
01:04:09,000 --> 01:04:13,000
Speaker 4: So if I were to purchase a domain that ends in

293
01:04:13,000 --> 01:04:15,000
Speaker 1: IR and then host website.

294
01:04:17,000 --> 01:04:21,000
Speaker 10: anything in Iran. The transaction to

295
01:04:22,000 --> 01:04:24,000
Speaker 1: domain was a

296
01:04:25,000 --> 01:04:26,000
Speaker 5: action.

297
01:04:26,000 --> 01:04:46,000
Speaker 1: You can't do that. It goes further. If you were to purchase server hosting in Iran, that's also a sanctions violation. So we don't even have to talk about We don't have to talk about any of this stuff. just by purchasing any internet infrastructure over there And it makes sense for us.

298
01:04:46,000 --> 01:04:50,000
Speaker 3: Cody's view. Here's a guy who

299
01:04:50,000 --> 01:04:57,000
Speaker 1: US government. So what's the best way to not have your systems taken down? Well, posted somewhere where the government

300
01:04:57,000 --> 01:05:26,000
Speaker 4: You can't ask that country to take it down. It makes total sense, but it's stupid. I think this conversation is fun and stuff. I mean, it's very interesting. But I think we're getting away from, like, the point. Are we touching a sense of subject? We haven't gotten to the point, FDM. I haven't even been able to address the point. That's what I'm saying. Let's go back to why you're claiming that the catalog is an enterprise.

301
01:05:26,000 --> 01:05:30,000
Speaker 1: or a company, is it because of- - Well, not even that.

302
01:05:32,000 --> 01:05:37,000
Speaker 10: friends with each other? Ralph, don't bother with that because he's ultimately admitted it's an

303
01:05:41,000 --> 01:05:42,000
Speaker 1: And he still holds to that opinion.

304
01:05:43,000 --> 01:05:54,000
Speaker 10: So we'd be wasting our time by going back to talk about that specific thing. Let's move on to something else that he said that is critical of the situation. What's that?

305
01:05:54,000 --> 01:05:57,000
Speaker 7: - No, I was just...

306
01:05:57,000 --> 01:06:39,000
Speaker 10: People were wondering why are you Cody, everybody's dogpiling on him, for one. I don't like to see, I just don't like to see the drama. I don't like to see the bullshit. And a lot of it's bullshit. All of it. Bro, you have all of it's bullshit? You've done nothing but contribute to that. No. See, the catalog, and that's why I'm so pissed about the catalog. senting opinions about anything. No, it hasn't. And you're literally

307
01:06:39,000 --> 01:06:52,000
Speaker 1: - There's no proof of that. AWCY is proof of that. AWCY, when they dropped the market, the catalog had absolutely nothing to counter that. And they were the ones who were controlling narrative. And then it became being

308
01:06:54,000 --> 01:07:11,000
Speaker 10: and realize, hey, we can print these $40 guns and get paid 200 bucks at a gun buyback. Like, no, the GAD log doesn't control the narrative. - Okay. - The GAD world. - Let's pivot a little bit from that too. What is the narrative in your mind, FDM? - Well, I don't know.

309
01:07:12,000 --> 01:07:22,000
Speaker 1: explaining that wrong. It's like they control any subject, any, they want all the clout. They want

310
01:07:23,000 --> 01:07:50,000
Speaker 10: It's you see it all the time. You see it all the time with Nikolai with Ralph before that. Nikolai is the last person I would cite as a means of, oh, he's trying to clout for the catalog, dude. Are you kidding me? Well, I'm just saying no, I'm just saying no, these are victims of the catalog. Oh, OK. Can we get him in here at some point and touch on where is last? Where's last dynamic dynamic? Where is he at?

311
01:07:51,000 --> 01:07:56,000
Speaker 1: Go try to visit his ex-page. Where's he at? Is he jumping in and out? I think he's got some pretty good stuff.

312
01:07:57,000 --> 01:08:00,000
Speaker 10: - I miss last. - I miss last.

313
01:08:00,000 --> 01:08:08,000
Speaker 1: - A couple days ago, what are you talking about? - I got, I actually. - He deleted his account yesterday. - Funny story. - He goes back and forth, the man's got personal problems and he doesn't

314
01:08:09,000 --> 01:08:17,000
Speaker 4: website still up if that's if his website's still up then it doesn't matter pretty sure the odyssey is

315
01:08:19,000 --> 01:08:24,000
Speaker 10: is down is because it says it was suspended. Oh, it couldn't be because a zone

316
01:08:26,000 --> 01:08:54,000
Speaker 4: You have no proof of that whatsoever, dude. A trans person going after a gay developer? Yeah, that would end well. She literally sent me something about laughs when we were talking about Unseen. That doesn't mean that she reported him, dude. No, no, no. I didn't accuse her of reporting him. I'm saying it's all the harassment. Dude, we're on Twitter.com. This is harassment center.

317
01:08:54,000 --> 01:08:57,000
Speaker 1: As someone who has been

318
01:08:58,000 --> 01:09:18,000
Speaker 4: receiving end of the dog pile i understand why it happened it's not i've been on the receiving end of zona like this isn't a fucking argument it's not even it there's no it doesn't matter my point i was on the receiving end of carbonite once upon a time my point is there is always a reason for it

319
01:09:18,000 --> 01:09:49,000
Speaker 1: happen it's a result of something you said or did so i it's a result of laughs taking what was he taking money from defcad too what it would did they figure out something magic i don't i don't know why are they busting his i've noticed that yeah he's been posting on defcad for years when i first got into the space he was like the number one He had all the grips. - Yeah, exactly. because he was an independent dev and I was part of AWC

320
01:09:50,000 --> 01:09:56,000
Speaker 10: wait for GCI and I wanted to get him involved with one of the groups. I was the one who reached out to him through

321
01:09:56,000 --> 01:10:08,000
Speaker 1: and convinced him to come over to Matrix and start doing stuff there. fun times and then he just sort of went on and did his own thing i mean let's get back

322
01:10:10,000 --> 01:10:24,000
Speaker 2: That's another thing. This space was built on FOSS principles. It's 3D2A. It's FOSS. Here comes Gatalog.

323
01:10:24,000 --> 01:10:26,000
Speaker 10: copyright shit. It's

324
01:10:26,000 --> 01:10:41,000
Speaker 4: that's not foss okay dude no that's not an argument dude linux is fucking it's copyrighted and for it we're not talking about software we are talking about role what does the last

325
01:10:42,000 --> 01:10:47,000
Speaker 10: or phosphine. The distribution...

326
01:10:48,000 --> 01:11:28,000
Speaker 4: the second amendment of firearms, the free, the free dude, AKA what def cat doesn't do. So therefore it's not fuss. There is no strategy. That doesn't matter. It's not free. Therefore it automatically not fall under fog. It's also not, DevCat is not open source. I'm not busting the balls of Defcat But you're busting the balls of Gatalog Who does release free and open source material Even if it's copyrighted And even if it's copyrighted for a reason And you know that reason Correct And this

327
01:11:28,000 --> 01:11:30,000
Speaker 7: went on to set up

328
01:11:31,000 --> 01:11:32,000
Speaker 10: I'll try to set up.

329
01:11:35,000 --> 01:11:39,000
Speaker 4: correct. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

330
01:11:39,000 --> 01:12:26,000
Speaker 10: talking about shit here, it's crazy. Like, Freeman, I can't, I told myself I wasn't even gonna say word because for some reason there's off limits words that you can say on Twitter. You can't say Jay Stark. You can't say Ruby. You can't invoke these names without threats for some reason. But I don't know. I mean, it was just, I think it was that you, I think the problem, and I say this as someone who knew Jay Stark and he was a good guy. I have no complaints about him. I think the problem was that. that you knew that you knew what Jay Stark's perspective would be on something like this, and there were a good number of people in the community, including myself, I believe that you were wrong with your perception on me.

331
01:12:26,000 --> 01:12:27,000
Speaker 1: There were a good number of people

332
01:12:28,000 --> 01:12:42,000
Speaker 10: Jay Stark, who interacted with him prior to his unfortunate passing, who knew that he would respond in a completely different way from what you would presuppose. is what got a lot of people's goats.

333
01:12:42,000 --> 01:12:44,000
Speaker 1: in my opinion,

334
01:12:44,000 --> 01:13:21,000
Speaker 10: know anything about the guy. I never talked to him or anything, but he was so firm in his beliefs. In my head, I would assume he would have been against any copyrighted material for 3D2A, period, point blank, nothing, that's it. But you're telling me that he would be okay with it to make a buck, purely to make

335
01:13:22,000 --> 01:13:24,000
Speaker 1: to further the FGC9 within the great community.

336
01:13:25,000 --> 01:13:41,000
Speaker 10: Remember, the entire idea of the FGC9 is that it is completely DIY, and you technically don't need a parts kit for it. Parts kit people came in afterwards, which is fair. People who might be making a few possibly commercial examples.

337
01:13:41,000 --> 01:13:42,000
Speaker 4: of the FGC9.

338
01:13:43,000 --> 01:13:44,000
Speaker 5: future.

339
01:13:44,000 --> 01:13:47,000
Speaker 1: saying that Devcat is

340
01:13:47,000 --> 01:13:49,000
Speaker 10: money.

341
01:13:50,000 --> 01:13:51,000
Speaker 4: are dude what are you talking about

342
01:13:52,000 --> 01:14:00,000
Speaker 1: That is their core focus of doing everything to make money. If Ivan and Co's core focus was to make money,

343
01:14:01,000 --> 01:14:08,000
Speaker 10: realistically have used something like, they wouldn't realistically have used something use like Colts 3D or something.

344
01:14:08,000 --> 01:14:23,000
Speaker 2: Paywall. So Johnny, how do you, his name, Jenny? - Okay, so, I'm gonna go over here.

345
01:14:23,000 --> 01:14:26,000
Speaker 10: costs to run a KY

346
01:14:27,000 --> 01:14:44,000
Speaker 1: How do you think, how much For those who don't know, can you explain what that is? Know your customer. How much do you think that would cost a month to run a system like that? $100. $100? No.

347
01:14:45,000 --> 01:14:58,000
Speaker 10: Not even close. I'm not even going to give a number out there. What is this? Why would you bring it up? I'm not going to throw a number because, you know.

348
01:14:59,000 --> 01:15:03,000
Speaker 4: - If you're gonna be like, how much do you think it costs? And I'm like, well, I'm not gonna give a number.

349
01:15:05,000 --> 01:15:22,000
Speaker 10: I have to be careful. I have to be careful. We are very aware you need to be careful, dude. Okay. You're very transparent. I got, I got to be careful because you know what's going to happen. Is this going to be a shit show after we get off here? Yeah, they're going to, they're going to say some mean things. And then in a few days, they're going to say

350
01:15:22,000 --> 01:15:41,000
Speaker 1: No one's going to care. But I can tell you by, you know, being in, you know, computer, being around development and stuff, I know for a fact that Cody's not making hardly any money off of what he's doing with.

351
01:15:42,000 --> 01:15:57,000
Speaker 4: - And then why would in his own category? say that the catalog is stealing business from Defense Distributed unless he was there to make a profit. So you admit they are going to make a profit, dude. Then why did we go down this entire

352
01:15:58,000 --> 01:16:04,000
Speaker 10: - Not to mention- - Because it's a business. A business is to make profit and to make money.

353
01:16:04,000 --> 01:16:11,000
Speaker 4: even with his know your customer protocols. Now you're saying he's there for a profit. I don't think he's

354
01:16:12,000 --> 01:16:22,000
Speaker 10: even. Not that's what he is making a little money, but it isn't like it isn't a huge amount of money. It isn't even it's probably really negligible.

355
01:16:23,000 --> 01:16:25,000
Speaker 4: - If it's negligible, the counterclaim.

356
01:16:26,000 --> 01:16:34,000
Speaker 10: - With all due respect, this doesn't mean Cody has a point, this just means that Cody a businessman with all due respect to him. He's a bad

357
01:16:34,000 --> 01:16:47,000
Speaker 4: - He's mad. He should be engaging in other ways that make him-- good faith to Cody. No, I know it's being in good faith to Cody, but you have to give the good faith argument here because any other argument would be perceived by FDM as being

358
01:16:48,000 --> 01:17:01,000
Speaker 10: a targeted attack on Cody itself with a given slant to it. This argument is subjective. No, I understand that. And there's no way that you can argue against the argument in question. He's doing bad business. That's just a fact of the matter.

359
01:17:02,000 --> 01:17:07,000
Speaker 4: - I understand that, but he's the one that implied, sorry, go ahead. - So he's doing bad business.

360
01:17:07,000 --> 01:17:22,000
Speaker 1: He's doing that. It's everything is a criticism. Everything. It's a criticism. There's nothing like it's so stupid. I mean, look, he just he's attempting to run a system where he makes money and

361
01:17:23,000 --> 01:17:39,000
Speaker 10: monetizing files that were available for free before he started trying to monetize them. It was a losing business model from the moment that he started doing it, all things considered. If he had tried to push for, frankly, a more OnlyFans-esque model,

362
01:17:40,000 --> 01:19:29,000
Speaker 1: pushed more towards the system of patronage where people could patronize developers instead of relying on, oh, you know, pay some money. and then you'll get access to all the files. And then maybe he took a little bit of that as like a fee from people part of it, that would be more acceptable. And frankly, he would have made more money from doing that. Can we speculate on why he would do such a thing? And my speculation here is due to the litigation of the whole sexual thing that happened and the people calling him a pedo, like maybe that was part of the deal where they were like, hey, we know you're this well-known world most wanted guy for being this crypto anarchist. the fuck this guy was like on the top list of most wanted in the world at one point so maybe there was a reason why he did that as part of maybe an agreement no ralph i got i gotta i gotta stop you there he was it was never most wanted he it wasn't even i don't fucking know the details that's why we're here it wasn't even a federal charge it was state he was the most infamous crypto anarchist that was it or something or something yeah but regardless he was very well known at the time and they wanted -No. -In order to build this-- database, I guess, of YouTube. - I get, yeah, I get the criticism there, but that's-- - That's the dots that I'm connecting in my head right now.

363
01:19:31,000 --> 01:19:42,000
Speaker 10: because most of the people who would be exploiting of the area or using proxies, et cetera, like that.

364
01:19:43,000 --> 01:20:00,000
Speaker 4: - Can I jump in? - Potentially. - Go ahead. - From Cody's own counterclaim, I think it's section 137. He claims that the counter defense wrongdoing show lost profits amounting to quote, at least $385,000. - Booty.

365
01:20:01,000 --> 01:20:03,000
Speaker 1: How did they come up with that number?

366
01:20:03,000 --> 01:20:33,000
Speaker 4: Right? I'm not sure how they came up with that number. Doesn't sound like he's trying to break even there. Sounds like he's trying to pull a profit. I can believe it. Well, once again, how much do you think it costs? Dude, come on. You already said you don't know what it is. If he's sending letters to developers requesting money back from business that he's done with them in the past, I mean, it sounds like this man is desperate for money at this point. I should always point out--

367
01:20:33,000 --> 01:20:38,000
Speaker 1: that's the narrative they want to build. But what it is is Cody can be an asshole. I mean,

368
01:20:40,000 --> 01:21:04,000
Speaker 10: I mean, I should point out that per the wording of 137, it specifically states that these are lost profits, which means that the gadlog over that, not the gadlog, that Didi, had over that period did in fact make a profit. This is of money that he believes he would have made more had the counter-defender quote unquote, wrongdoing. - Right, and when was this filed?

369
01:21:07,000 --> 01:21:22,000
Speaker 4: in like March. I mean, the counterclaim was filed November 19th. - We're talking about the bracket of time that he's talking about of lost profits. And this was dealing with the- I believe, right? - Per one, okay.

370
01:21:24,000 --> 01:21:28,000
Speaker 1: Per 137, the period was from June 2023.

371
01:21:29,000 --> 01:21:35,000
Speaker 4: day. So over a course - In a year and a half, he is claiming, are you,

372
01:21:38,000 --> 01:21:50,000
Speaker 10: It takes a lot of money to run these systems. I'm going to say how I know is because I've been involved in a lot of, well, I wouldn't say a lot.

373
01:21:50,000 --> 01:21:54,000
Speaker 2: I've been involved in a lot of, yeah,

374
01:21:56,000 --> 01:21:58,000
Speaker 1: Let's just put it that way.

375
01:21:58,000 --> 01:22:15,000
Speaker 10: about the systems and how they work and how much money. - Yeah, that's where your name comes from, Cripsy, we know. - And yeah, so that's what I'm gonna say there. I'm not saying he's not turning a profit, but I am gonna tell you that it takes a lot of work

376
01:22:16,000 --> 01:22:28,000
Speaker 2: - I think we can easily ask, by the way guys, you know, ghostgunners.com is in right now the space. If they want to hop in, they could also clarify it for us too. - Oh, what's up Cody? - Oh, I would love to see, well,

377
01:22:29,000 --> 01:22:40,000
Speaker 1: that runs ghostguns.com. He's been in one of our spaces in the past, and it was actually one of his workers, I guess, that just runs the website. Oh, Cody's listening.

378
01:22:40,000 --> 01:22:43,000
Speaker 4: Even if it's through a sock puppet, he's listening.

379
01:22:43,000 --> 01:22:44,000
Speaker 1: I'm sure he's president.

380
01:22:47,000 --> 01:23:27,000
Speaker 4: Just to be clear, FDM is implying that over the course of, what was it, June of 2023? or $21,000 a month in lost profits that he's saying he needs to run the site. Which seems And the site's still up, so he's clearly making something. It's still running without that 21 grand. Hold on. You said how long was that? 21 grand a month? And it's like, what, 18 months? Year and a half? Hold on a moment. Well, Legio membership, which you need in order to access the file repo, like, what, 80 bucks a month? It's $4.50 a month.

381
01:23:28,000 --> 01:23:37,000
Speaker 10: $21,000 a month divided by the $4.5 million.

382
01:23:39,000 --> 01:23:42,000
Speaker 3: making would mean that he believes that

383
01:23:43,000 --> 01:23:45,000
Speaker 1: and co have somehow

384
01:23:47,000 --> 01:24:06,000
Speaker 10: 4,500 people from paying him money for access to Legio membership on a recurring yearly basis to be able to participate in this. And that seems very, very unlikely to me, especially given the amount of downloads that even the top files can.

385
01:24:07,000 --> 01:24:12,000
Speaker 1: have already got. Yep. If anyone wants to take a look at DefCAD's top five,

386
01:24:12,000 --> 01:24:15,000
Speaker 3: Let's go to the website right now.

387
01:24:16,000 --> 01:24:42,000
Speaker 1: Um, let's see the top front page downloads right now, the RTT nine 1.1000, the SL 15, 494, Danny meatballs, Glock mags. Great. 4.5 thousand. Ghost Gunners mechanical assembly, 270. I mean even the FGC9 Mark II, which I would argue is probably one of the top five

388
01:24:43,000 --> 01:24:48,000
Speaker 10: here, 12,700.

389
01:24:49,000 --> 01:25:21,000
Speaker 4: I would assume that he's not just talking about the loss from his website. He's talking about losses from Ghost Gunner, his name, everything. There's more than just his website. But that comes up in different counterclaims, in different sections, where he claims he's lost money due to his status, financial status, business partnerships. Those are different from the profits he's talking about from Death Cat specifically.

390
01:25:23,000 --> 01:25:36,000
Speaker 1: 139 in particular in reference to damage to reputation and goodwill. He states, quote, "The counter defendant's false statements, and unlawful interference have severely harmed Defense distributors, he doesn't mention

391
01:25:36,000 --> 01:25:38,000
Speaker 6: Ghost Gunner, he doesn't mention DefGad. Defense Distributed

392
01:25:38,000 --> 01:25:47,000
Speaker 10: Reputation and business goodwill. The loss of trust among users, partners, and the public cannot be fully measured or remedied by monetary compensation alone. Granted, he doesn't.

393
01:25:49,000 --> 01:25:51,000
Speaker 6: the $350,000,

394
01:25:52,000 --> 01:25:55,000
Speaker 10: I mean let's be real here with loyalty

395
01:25:56,000 --> 01:25:58,000
Speaker 2: in general, whenever you have

396
01:25:58,000 --> 01:26:04,000
Speaker 10: filing like this, they throw shit at the wall, you know, to see what's going to stick.

397
01:26:05,000 --> 01:26:28,000
Speaker 4: he was backed into a corner pretty much I'm not gonna know he made but he made the assertion he said hey if you have a problem with it sue me that is not backing him into a corner that is outright being aggressive no I mean several developers asked him to take down is their stuff and quite literally he said

398
01:26:29,000 --> 01:27:03,000
Speaker 10: So that's kind of more antiquity. Well, to be fair, maybe they just didn't ask nicely. Correct. If they would have asked nicely, you know, he may have took them down. I do know for a fact, though, that Cody and DefCAD do respond to DCMA requests. I do know that. Now, did they respond specifically at somebody you're going to say, hey, you know, you're going to talk about this person I asked, You know, maybe he didn't. Can someone give...

399
01:27:03,000 --> 01:27:04,000
Speaker 2: respond to DCMA requests.

400
01:27:05,000 --> 01:27:06,000
Speaker 3: someone give Jonathan

401
01:27:06,000 --> 01:27:21,000
Speaker 1: the opportunity to speak. I know he was wanting to say something had him on as a speaker he never unmuted when given the chance if - Yeah. - I'll speak again, brother. Send another request. - Yeah.

402
01:27:22,000 --> 01:27:23,000
Speaker 3: When you click, when you get on.

403
01:27:24,000 --> 01:27:25,000
Speaker 1: desktop,

404
01:27:27,000 --> 01:27:38,000
Speaker 10: I know you should think get there, you got to click the red button in order to Maybe Elon will fix it, but yeah, that's probably your issue.

405
01:27:39,000 --> 01:27:43,000
Speaker 1: - The CIA has come back once again. What do you got?

406
01:27:44,000 --> 01:27:45,000
Speaker 10: I was just hearing a little bit of a

407
01:27:46,000 --> 01:27:49,000
Speaker 4: of the information going on and

408
01:27:49,000 --> 01:27:58,000
Speaker 10: FDM like you keep wiffle waffling here and the fact I'm a Wiffle Waffle.

409
01:27:59,000 --> 01:28:00,000
Speaker 9: a lot of these have

410
01:28:00,000 --> 01:28:02,000
Speaker 4: about the catalog.

411
01:28:03,000 --> 01:28:06,000
Speaker 10: substantial there and you

412
01:28:08,000 --> 01:28:22,000
Speaker 4: here and you're sitting there defending Cody again a lot of these things and Ralph one of the things that that I want to clarify for you. Ralph's or Cody's operation is done because

413
01:28:22,000 --> 01:28:35,000
Speaker 3: lawsuit that was done by several states that combined to sue deaf cats. And basically in order to end the lawsuit, he basically said, this box.

414
01:28:36,000 --> 01:28:37,000
Speaker 4: That was the US certification.

415
01:28:38,000 --> 01:28:44,000
Speaker 1: to do with his. OK, thank you. Thank you for clarifying that. Yeah, thank you for clarifying that.

416
01:28:45,000 --> 01:28:46,000
Speaker 2: - I've got--

417
01:28:48,000 --> 01:29:33,000
Speaker 4: - No, no, no, no, no, no. substantiate that yes he was sued it was by multiple states He chose to pick a certain way out instead of going to court. and the way he has to do certain things is purely by his decision with his attorneys, not the way the law is written. they could have went after anybody else. And the fact is FDM, like the way that you defend that, of AWCY, it's kind of problematic. because you're literally saying, oh, I think this is the way that things need to operate. Yet you're operate that way.

418
01:29:35,000 --> 01:29:38,000
Speaker 2: Yes. between two persons, like,

419
01:29:39,000 --> 01:29:40,000
Speaker 10: It's totally different.

420
01:29:41,000 --> 01:30:05,000
Speaker 4: No, no, no, no, stop here. I'm going to stop you right there. That is not true at all. mess with these transfers all the time domestically what what has nothing to do, oh, it's a private individual. That has nothing to do with it. is Cody backed himself into the spot. Cody's made certain things.

421
01:30:05,000 --> 01:30:06,000
Speaker 5: I can't

422
01:30:06,000 --> 01:30:11,000
Speaker 3: - I kind of really should have on Joni's things, but

423
01:30:13,000 --> 01:30:44,000
Speaker 4: Unencrypted? That's problematic, considering that he has this agreement in place. These are legal issues that he's going to be doing. generated for himself not anything that has to do with you know the catalog or anything like that like these are issues he creates for himself uh i don't really know how to help you there but Do you realize that defending him and his position, you're putting your own organization

424
01:30:46,000 --> 01:31:01,000
Speaker 10: With all due respect to FDM, I think V8 did more of that over the course of the last couple of years. Okay, okay. There's a possibility there. I mean, I have Tequila Kid 9th... or is it 900?

425
01:31:01,000 --> 01:31:02,000
Speaker 2: He

426
01:31:04,000 --> 01:31:09,000
Speaker 3: some screenshots and whatnot of AWS people saying some, shall we say,

427
01:31:10,000 --> 01:31:11,000
Speaker 2: but Jay Stark

428
01:31:11,000 --> 01:31:17,000
Speaker 10: I don't think we really need to rehash That's like two-year-old drama, man.

429
01:31:18,000 --> 01:31:30,000
Speaker 4: I think there's too much of that that's We're here trying to talk about as a member of our community. kind of how we feel about

430
01:31:31,000 --> 01:31:33,000
Speaker 10: again, want to look at

431
01:31:34,000 --> 01:31:35,000
Speaker 4: well, they're a positive gift.

432
01:31:35,000 --> 01:31:37,000
Speaker 10: FDM, that's him.

433
01:31:38,000 --> 01:32:09,000
Speaker 4: there are other people that are, in my opinion, saying, no, they're a bad apple. I mean, I have opinions. All I've stated here today is just fantastic. about the things that Cody represents, like his, the whole bill of goods that DefCAD sells that are kind of provable. I think there's an agenda to push. There's undoubtedly an agenda to push. But here's the whole deal.

434
01:32:09,000 --> 01:32:12,000
Speaker 10: - Everyone has an agenda.

435
01:32:12,000 --> 01:32:14,000
Speaker 4: from a FOSS perspective.

436
01:32:15,000 --> 01:32:24,000
Speaker 10: of the things FDM that you don't seem to recognize is that there are many copy left licenses. Example, you know, and I know you're going to say, well, that's software. No, that's

437
01:32:25,000 --> 01:32:27,000
Speaker 7: of FOSS and

438
01:32:28,000 --> 01:32:30,000
Speaker 1: the creators of the terms,

439
01:32:30,000 --> 01:32:34,000
Speaker 10: already spoken that it's a bastardization

440
01:32:36,000 --> 01:33:01,000
Speaker 4: - So having copy left. - There's no arguing that. is a very well understood term there. And the point of copy left is to ensure a And then you also can go even further and to prevent you could argue that Defcat has actually done things that are against copyleft

441
01:33:02,000 --> 01:33:03,000
Speaker 6: and Tevoization,

442
01:33:04,000 --> 01:33:05,000
Speaker 10: you know, they're going to

443
01:33:05,000 --> 01:33:08,000
Speaker 4: is very proprietary to their device.

444
01:33:08,000 --> 01:33:09,000
Speaker 3: Okay.

445
01:33:10,000 --> 01:33:19,000
Speaker 4: technical limits around that, you could argue, but As far as putting You know, that's very copyleft. I mean,

446
01:33:20,000 --> 01:33:23,000
Speaker 3: thing they could say, Hey, I'm

447
01:33:23,000 --> 01:33:41,000
Speaker 4: we're under an agreement, they should have some transparency and say, Here's what you got to pay for. transparency and then we're going to give you of access almost

448
01:33:42,000 --> 01:33:44,000
Speaker 3: But they don't do that.

449
01:33:46,000 --> 01:33:58,000
Speaker 10: These are promises, but again, they don't expect a lot of the false things. They have a disclaimer telling why they why. They already

450
01:34:00,000 --> 01:34:08,000
Speaker 4: understand that disclaimer? Barely, but yeah. So, point being...

451
01:34:08,000 --> 01:34:14,000
Speaker 3: you know, they don't, you know, they chose to charge people.

452
01:34:14,000 --> 01:34:22,000
Speaker 4: for this activity. They chose to make that agreement with those states. Those Those are just choices.

453
01:34:23,000 --> 01:34:25,000
Speaker 1: they may. In my opinion,

454
01:34:26,000 --> 01:35:02,000
Speaker 10: - Legally, they have to. - Legally, yes, they have to do that, but that is an agreement they chose with that state. - Here's a question. Does the agreement dictate the amount of money that DEFCAD has to charge people? - Absolutely not. - Absolutely not. - Okay, so-- - It just says they have to perform and know your customer. - Okay. if they wanted. Well, no, it's not a matter of nothing. I mean, I think it would have, frankly, been better if they just simply charged, like, a dollar for, like, a year. If they did that, then no one would be complaining because, you know. There would be no server.

455
01:35:02,000 --> 01:35:19,000
Speaker 1: with a dollar a year. You don't understand what storage costs, what these systems cost. It's a lot of money. With a bunch of people, significantly more people offering a dollar a year as access to what's going on, as well as any donations to Legio that they would put forward, I would argue that it would be a lot of money.

456
01:35:22,000 --> 01:36:05,000
Speaker 4: And FDM, to be clear, you're now walking back from your earlier assertion that DefCAD was not doing this in a for-profit motive. You're now saying that, oh, well, now they need the money. They absolutely need to have the money. Dollar here's not going to cut it. So you're walking that back, FYI. I'll be honest with you. I can't say why he's doing it. I'm not in Cody's head. I'm not friends with Cody. We don't, you know, kick back whiskey over a stogie.

457
01:36:06,000 --> 01:36:11,000
Speaker 5: Let me in, bro. Oh my God. No, no. Oh my God.

458
01:36:12,000 --> 01:36:32,000
Speaker 10: Dude, FDF, Cripsy. Stop. Stop. Look, I hate to tell you to SDFU, please SDFU, because the absolute last thing you need to do is proactively state on a recorded group chat, that everyone will listen to after

459
01:36:32,000 --> 01:36:37,000
Speaker 2: this ends up getting over. The last thing you need to say is, Hey, Cody, please give me a call.

460
01:36:37,000 --> 01:36:40,000
Speaker 1: bring me on board your team. That's

461
01:36:40,000 --> 01:36:45,000
Speaker 10: No, don't do this. I just want to let the world know.

462
01:36:46,000 --> 01:36:54,000
Speaker 4: I love bro. What and I'm this is a bit. There's no way. He is her granddaddy. She really

463
01:36:55,000 --> 01:37:11,000
Speaker 1: Can we get your drug tested? I'm really starting to ask that question. Bro, we need Zoopy in here to clarify, because that's her pops. Zoopy, is he trolling or what? What the fuck? Uh-oh. Is there a... Oh, my God, Cody. Because if he's trolling, this is the best troll ever. Like, it really is the best troll ever.

464
01:37:12,000 --> 01:37:18,000
Speaker 10: I mean, I'll just go ahead. I'll let you say something. No, no, I'm just I'm just kind of at a

465
01:37:18,000 --> 01:37:37,000
Speaker 2: here. Well, I mean, what I was going to say is, I mean, what I've gotten from this whole thing is I don't think you really have an actual real issue with this. I just think you just don't like the catalog FDM. That's what I'm getting from this. It's really just like you're just almost just trying to - You come up with excuses. - No.

466
01:37:38,000 --> 01:37:39,000
Speaker 4: I think it goes.

467
01:37:39,000 --> 01:37:48,000
Speaker 10: I want to be clear. I like the Gat Dude. I've been in this space since the Keybase days.

468
01:37:49,000 --> 01:37:51,000
Speaker 2: 20, 20, 19, 20.

469
01:37:56,000 --> 01:37:57,000
Speaker 7: I think the first piece

470
01:37:57,000 --> 01:37:58,000
Speaker 10: to were like Ivan

471
01:38:00,000 --> 01:38:03,000
Speaker 2: questions about the race and

472
01:38:03,000 --> 01:38:13,000
Speaker 10: or something, they were dicks. So I was like, fuck this place so I found AYC or A-W-C-Y and like...

473
01:38:14,000 --> 01:38:16,000
Speaker 2: And this man don't even know what he's doing.

474
01:38:18,000 --> 01:38:21,000
Speaker 10: I don't know. Can I be real here?

475
01:38:22,000 --> 01:38:44,000
Speaker 4: I think this is a very valid thing. I'm going to compare this to a lot of open source communities. Okay. The catalog has a certain level of technical expertise. education. has the row. The catalog has a beta process. people have been majorly critical on. I understand that, but there's also certain

476
01:38:45,000 --> 01:38:47,000
Speaker 3: that you don't want things blocked.

477
01:38:47,000 --> 01:38:52,000
Speaker 4: like the harlot. I think we all know about all the harlots that blew up.

478
01:38:53,000 --> 01:38:57,000
Speaker 3: you know, This isn't software, people can lose fingers.

479
01:38:58,000 --> 01:39:00,000
Speaker 4: you know, have injuries.

480
01:39:02,000 --> 01:39:05,000
Speaker 1: If you're making a harlot and you actually intend to

481
01:39:09,000 --> 01:39:14,000
Speaker 10: Okay, and look, I think that one of the things that –

482
01:39:15,000 --> 01:39:19,000
Speaker 4: we all have to understand at the end of the day is that they're going to be different communities

483
01:39:21,000 --> 01:39:22,000
Speaker 6: The catalog has chosen

484
01:39:22,000 --> 01:39:26,000
Speaker 3: Whether or not you agree with that, that's one thing.

485
01:39:27,000 --> 01:39:28,000
Speaker 4: designs I have

486
01:39:29,000 --> 01:39:30,000
Speaker 10: I'll never go through

487
01:39:32,000 --> 01:39:55,000
Speaker 4: through their beta process. there for people. And, you know, at the same time, time, like a lot of things, you know, You have to take it for what it is. You have to take it for what it is. your risk and I think that is that DefCAD has been

488
01:39:55,000 --> 01:39:56,000
Speaker 3: a

489
01:39:56,000 --> 01:40:12,000
Speaker 4: major risk, especially with the fact that they've uploaded leaked betas, the OK Boomer being one of them. And you just have to wonder, what quality testing are they doing?

490
01:40:13,000 --> 01:40:16,000
Speaker 10: some real issues if you don't well

491
01:40:17,000 --> 01:40:31,000
Speaker 4: if these are not quality designs, I have a question for you. Nobody started posting files today, and that went on going forward. How many files would Death Cab post? None. Exactly. - They don't have a standard.

492
01:40:33,000 --> 01:40:41,000
Speaker 1: - Well, I'm gonna totally flip flop. What I was trying to say before, fucking lost my train of thought because I don't know. I think I'm getting tired.

493
01:40:42,000 --> 01:40:51,000
Speaker 2: around for a while. I came to catalog first or DD, however you want to. And then I went to AWC Y

494
01:40:52,000 --> 01:40:58,000
Speaker 10: And then, you know, I started getting on Twitter and I've been through the drama.

495
01:40:59,000 --> 01:41:12,000
Speaker 2: I was friends with a lot of people from the catalog. I started coming around again going, well, maybe it's not so bad. Maybe, you know, it's just bullshit. And then, you know, I started seeing the patterns again.

496
01:41:12,000 --> 01:41:16,000
Speaker 1: of harassment and attack and

497
01:41:18,000 --> 01:41:24,000
Speaker 2: come again what who are the ones doing the harassment just like specifically

498
01:41:24,000 --> 01:41:28,000
Speaker 4: so we can at least know who to call out for the ones doing bad

499
01:41:28,000 --> 01:41:30,000
Speaker 2: You know what?

500
01:41:33,000 --> 01:41:49,000
Speaker 10: what Zona but there's there's many of them Zona and her zombies and then there or his zombies I don't know or her I don't know what that person likes getting those death threats typed up already

501
01:41:54,000 --> 01:41:55,000
Speaker 3: - Thank you.

502
01:41:56,000 --> 01:41:57,000
Speaker 10: - I think the one zoning

503
01:42:02,000 --> 01:42:03,000
Speaker 3: from the

504
01:42:03,000 --> 01:42:06,000
Speaker 10: that would presumably be the

505
01:42:07,000 --> 01:42:08,000
Speaker 2: - Okay.

506
01:42:11,000 --> 01:42:12,000
Speaker 7: There's just a lot of them.

507
01:42:13,000 --> 01:42:15,000
Speaker 10: name them all. Just go through them.

508
01:42:16,000 --> 01:42:17,000
Speaker 2: Go through my feed.

509
01:42:17,000 --> 01:42:30,000
Speaker 1: All right, all right. FDM, give us a break here. arm joy has requested to speak the floor is yours brother even though you have me black motherfucker go ahead

510
01:42:34,000 --> 01:42:57,000
Speaker 4: uh he's uh yeah remember hit the red button and then you'll be able to talk if you're on pc he's unmuted just give him a sec and then we give all the time you can hear me there we go we can - Hello. - No, I'm Jess.

511
01:42:57,000 --> 01:43:03,000
Speaker 1: I don't know if... I just wanted to join in to say something about FDM

512
01:43:03,000 --> 01:43:49,000
Speaker 4: his side, not agreeing with what he said regarding Cody and all this shit, but by something like, I understand the point of like not hating on someone just because everyone hates on it. Because at one point that was my position with Ralph, because everyone, at one point, not everyone, but a lot of people were hating on Ralph by some stuff that he did. I didn't even care to see what the fuck he did, but he was never mean to me. In fact, before that time, he was nice to me. you don't go after him. Not necessarily support them, but not going after him. And that's a stick I can break on FDM's side. Not on Cody because fuck Cody. And the other situation that I want

513
01:43:49,000 --> 01:43:55,000
Speaker 1: address is an opinion that he gave that I believe is completely wrong.

514
01:43:56,000 --> 01:44:53,000
Speaker 4: I am also going to break a stick on his side by saying something that is, he said that he didn't believe that the catalog is like free and open source. And the thing is that I don't agree about that because I'm from Mexico. I can see the files, I can download the files. And even I know some people who are not from the States, who are from another more like restricted countries that can jail you for having files like the files in the catalog. And they can download them, no fucking problem. the thing about making a copyright for the files, or I don't know what the fuck, how the fuck he said it. I see that as a legitimate concern because yeah, if for some example, the catalog as an entity, or like some developer goes and say, hey, you know, fuck you guys, you don't get my files. Yeah, that's a legitimate concern.

515
01:44:54,000 --> 01:45:28,000
Speaker 9: But the thing I don't agree with him in that is that we have no precedent of that happening. We haven't had, well, the only thing that happened before and was someone who was not from the catalog was Derwood. Because Derwood went and said, hey, you know, fuck you guys, you don't get the cover nine files. And that was a big move and everyone hated for him. And if in the future someone from the catalog goes and says, you know, fuck you guys, you don't get my files, everyone is going to hate on them. Even if that person wants to

516
01:45:28,000 --> 01:45:43,000
Speaker 4: their files are gonna be around still. I mean, that's pretty much all I want to say. I believe that the catalog is 100% free an open source, even though they're copyright shit. Because, I mean, it has no precedent of operating by faith.

517
01:45:44,000 --> 01:45:46,000
Speaker 1: - Right on, thank you, Justin.

518
01:45:54,000 --> 01:46:02,000
Speaker 2: and other folks here. between him,

519
01:46:02,000 --> 01:46:20,000
Speaker 1: other than the one time with the whole Zoopy thing, it was all stupid. But, uh, you know, everyone else is hating on them. We'll give Armjoy a chance to speak here if he wants. If not, we do have

520
01:46:20,000 --> 01:46:22,000
Speaker 3: This mic is fixed.

521
01:46:26,000 --> 01:46:28,000
Speaker 10: That works.

522
01:46:28,000 --> 01:46:29,000
Speaker 5: So...

523
01:46:30,000 --> 01:46:35,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, we can hear you. Go for it.

524
01:46:36,000 --> 01:46:55,000
Speaker 1: All right, now we're not hearing you. Okay, Zoopy looks like you're a speaker. You got something to say Zoopy is your dad trolling? What the fuck's going on Zoopy? What's up guys Cody Wilson's daddy calling Cody Wilson daddy

525
01:46:56,000 --> 01:47:03,000
Speaker 4: We'll know that... We can hear you, Zippy. Yeah, we can hear you. It's a bit quiet.

526
01:47:03,000 --> 01:47:22,000
Speaker 3: Thank you. Yeah, it's much better. Okay, cool. So there's just been, like, so much BS going on in, like... I want to know where FDM arms be my dad rumor started. Rumor? So.

527
01:47:23,000 --> 01:47:26,000
Speaker 1: - Allegedly. - From me. - Allegedly. - No, I have to--

528
01:47:27,000 --> 01:47:33,000
Speaker 2: And like unseen killer apparently being my uncle. Like where are we going?

529
01:47:33,000 --> 01:48:02,000
Speaker 1: - This shit's crazy. - Let me answer that. - I mean like according-- - Okay. - Tweeted me, DM me, late 2022, said, "Hey, I got this friend that I went to school with. She's interested in getting into 3D2A and printing. Do you think you could help her out?" Turns out that person was Zoom. Come to find out months later, after I had already helped Zoopy come in the game and I

530
01:48:03,000 --> 01:48:06,000
Speaker 2: all her shit and telling everyone to go follow her.

531
01:48:06,000 --> 01:48:28,000
Speaker 1: was fucking FaceTiming her for three hours cool. Come to find out one day, the guy in the background talking to her was her dad. Come to find out her dad. How does him talking in the background meaning - He showed up in the FaceTime Zoopy, FDM arms. - Allegedly. - No, no.

532
01:48:28,000 --> 01:48:36,000
Speaker 4: I have never publicly stated that FDM arms is my dad. But according to P. Diddy Ralph, he is.

533
01:48:36,000 --> 01:48:46,000
Speaker 1: - I know your dad, I know your mom, I know your pets. No, you Zoopy. Don't try to play me. Man, that love letter is looking kind of hot.

534
01:48:46,000 --> 01:48:50,000
Speaker 10: I'm not gonna be a person right now.

535
01:48:50,000 --> 01:49:00,000
Speaker 1: being being completely fair i think it's pretty much an open secret at this point but i do like the continued denial it's a it's frank

536
01:49:02,000 --> 01:49:04,000
Speaker 10: Yeah, the alleged denial.

537
01:49:05,000 --> 01:49:38,000
Speaker 1: Deny, deny, deny. Allegedly. on FaceTime and FDM was in the background asking for help 'cause he was helping her. So yeah. - I did not know we were on Jerry Springer, Ralph. - It's not, I'm just trying to clarify. up in here, you're just playing game. - DogeNado has asked has been asking.

538
01:49:38,000 --> 01:49:45,000
Speaker 4: - Go ahead, Dojo. - I'm losing it, dude. - Okay, sorry, I'm kind of driving, but essentially I wanted to go

539
01:49:46,000 --> 01:50:26,000
Speaker 10: Like I'm not supporting DevGash. but the whole FOSS argument, my whole thing with that is I think the philosophy goes beyond software. I think it does actually go with firearms. Essentially, the main freedoms is like the free in FOS stands for free, freedom. like a price or monetary value. like yes there's stuff And if that wasn't the case, Microsoft, Apple, all of that would be in violation So, um, I think all of this should be free as in freedom. Everyone should have the right to knowledge, to firearms,

540
01:50:27,000 --> 01:50:35,000
Speaker 4: But I don't like the idea of copyright being used in a way to restrict anyone because, you know,

541
01:50:36,000 --> 01:51:38,000
Speaker 10: We have Cody, but they're going to be in the future where, you know, not saying DefCAD specifically, but you know, use this against other people in the community. I don't like the possibility that happening. We all seen, you know, everyone got pissed off when Derwood decided to proprietize supporting this kind of shit. So to me, it, But I understand why people are pissed off about Cody. And I'm okay with people, you know, putting restrictions in their license just Foss. Call it something else. That's one of the I encourage print. It is name on here. Printing revolution - Yeah. - Yeah, a few others to make their own license, because You can do that. You can restrict things, but it's not gonna be FOSS. or open source because that open source the freedom to not restrict anybody. Can I ask a question of you?

542
01:51:38,000 --> 01:51:42,000
Speaker 4: What do you do you understand the concept of a copy left license?

543
01:51:43,000 --> 01:51:44,000
Speaker 10: Yes.

544
01:51:45,000 --> 01:51:55,000
Speaker 4: Do you feel that some of these licenses really should a copyleft and if so, what would you consider copyleft license?

545
01:51:55,000 --> 01:52:52,000
Speaker 10: Copy Left may actually be more fitting than calling something open source. Creative Commons is a terrible license in its own, but there's different There's a source core and a few other types of licenses that can put in restrictions that would prevent monetization by third parties. I'll have to go through and look and see exactly which ones. But there are licenses available that will allow you to release the source material while still restricting third parties for ways like there's some that will, if you share it, someone else has to share it in the same form or manner. The one that would be specifically applicable if you didn't want someone to monetize it would be S-A-N-C if I recall correctly. Correct. Copy left does not prevent monitoring.

546
01:52:52,000 --> 01:52:57,000
Speaker 4: The whole episode of the of copy left is about ensuring freedom

547
01:52:58,000 --> 01:53:00,000
Speaker 1: prohibiting profit. It does not prohibit

548
01:53:00,000 --> 01:53:21,000
Speaker 10: any profit. Neither does open source. Neither does FOSS. Anything in between is a bastardization. Like I'm saying like, I don't agree with it personally. I think everything should be open source. But you know, if you want to have restrictions, go right ahead. Just, you know, when you have a legal case like this, you're also

549
01:53:22,000 --> 01:53:26,000
Speaker 9: screwing yourself over if you call something open source and then have those restrictions in there because

550
01:53:29,000 --> 01:54:40,000
Speaker 10: and then you're saying, oh, it's not. So you're contradicting yourself whenever you're calling something open source and then have those restrictions in there. That can dirty your argument. And the whole point of this whole community, the reason why they they relied on FOSS and open source, there was there was a reason for it. It's because so you didn't have this argument. for one, for two, the whole point is distribute firearms and the files for firearms without any restriction. That includes monetization. When you start copywriting this shit, problems that the founders and the people that started this, they kind of knew what would happen. I miss the days where we were arguing over, well, Jim Bob didn't they didn't they didn't put my name on it. But, you know, I'm the one who came up with this square. It was me. I miss those. FDM incidentally.

551
01:54:40,000 --> 01:54:43,000
Speaker 2: Incidentally, while we've been talking, apparently Defcad up

552
01:54:46,000 --> 01:55:02,000
Speaker 10: the Decker, and I believe Unseen Killer's most recent, what is it? onto their No, the cherry popper. Cherry blocker. Yeah, the cherry blogger. This is the block version of my AWC.

553
01:55:02,000 --> 01:55:06,000
Speaker 2: And the cherry popper, please refer to the PDF, read me for full build details, bomb,

554
01:55:06,000 --> 01:55:28,000
Speaker 1: All right, just to reiterate one more time, there is a lot of people requesting to speak. If you are requesting, you have to be patient. We're trying to get to everyone. You got nothing but time. So just hang in there with us. It looks like K-Tron has their hand up and has been a speaker muted for a while. K-Tron, this is your chance to speak.

555
01:55:28,000 --> 01:56:26,000
Speaker 2: It's actually Armjoy. I'm sorry. I couldn't figure out what was going on. I knew it. I stole away. All right, go ahead. So, yeah, I just wanted to go back because there was a lot of discussion about Cody's overhead and why he needs to do this and stuff. And like, I struggle with this whole thing because... because I feel like we're starting at different places to justifying DefCAD's existence and why they need to spend that money to exist. When you go to DefCAD It's a bunch of outdated, non-updated, dangerous files that more often or not are ganked from other people. They don't maintain them. They don't really provide any source on it or whatever. And Cody's blog. So his whole overhead, if it does cost that much, you're paying for him to call the primal father and ship him. I disagree, sir. I disagree. I disagree. How does the catalog operate at a similar level with an equally large space?

556
01:56:27,000 --> 01:56:44,000
Speaker 10: How does Odyssey operate with everyone operating the perfume? You know, the catalog... DefCAD is used by a large number of developers and they upload their models to DefCAD and they

557
01:56:46,000 --> 01:57:16,000
Speaker 4: DefCAD. DefCAD is providing a great service to a lot of people. And a lot of those people don't speak up for a reason. See, I don't give a shit. I could care less. But every time you corner someone on DefCAD, they're like, I don't make that much money about it. We just had one here that was like, oh, I don't upload to anything. I haven't taken a red cent from them. I don't care about, you know, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Because it's everybody, too. It's not an individual person. Like any single person we've pressed is like, yeah, bro, I make like a couple bucks. But it's like, oh, so we should get rid of.

558
01:57:16,000 --> 01:57:19,000
Speaker 1: DEFCAD for all this negative baggage

559
01:57:19,000 --> 01:57:28,000
Speaker 4: and you only get a couple dollars. And then it's like, well, wait, hang on. People get paid and make their livelihood on this. Which ones? - You're making the claim that there's a bunch of people. How many are there?

560
01:57:28,000 --> 01:57:40,000
Speaker 10: I don't have the number. And if I did, I certainly wouldn't blurt it out or wouldn't give the list because I don't want to get these people harassed.

561
01:57:41,000 --> 01:57:52,000
Speaker 2: - And like the fundamental thing is like, like all this thing goes to a convicted pedophile. - Here we go. - He was, dude,

562
01:57:53,000 --> 01:57:59,000
Speaker 1: documentary, Death Athletic, which he got on camera, recorded him walking up to a judge, guilty.

563
01:58:00,000 --> 01:58:20,000
Speaker 2: of the endangerment of a child. Then he gives an interview He talked to this girl after the fact how he thought. Oh, she might be 17 and I don't know. And I'm sorry I did it. He admitted to it. And beyond all of that, like the fed setup thing, the girl gave, like girl went to her therapist and told her therapist, the therapist.

564
01:58:20,000 --> 01:58:25,000
Speaker 1: was required to report this. It wasn't the feds, it was Cody. And it wasn't federal,

565
01:58:26,000 --> 01:58:29,000
Speaker 2: a plane and fled the country. There was a US Marshall warrant for him.

566
01:58:30,000 --> 01:58:34,000
Speaker 4: So like so many details of what his story is and stuff is like

567
01:58:36,000 --> 01:58:37,000
Speaker 3: and lies.

568
01:58:39,000 --> 01:58:44,000
Speaker 1: the time the source is his own documentary, not even hearsay.

569
01:58:44,000 --> 01:58:46,000
Speaker 4: We got that out of our system.

570
01:58:46,000 --> 01:58:56,000
Speaker 2: I didn't even know that. Pedophile! Can we just focus on the pedophile thing? Underline that you are comfortable with someone who is a felon who fucked a kid.

571
01:58:56,000 --> 01:59:15,000
Speaker 1: Thank you. All right. Thank you, K-Tron, AKA Armjoy. Remember to unblock me after this. We've got SCSM, Desert 3D, requesting to be a speaker. We'll get jungle. and then modern works and and Brad and then Bryce just hang in there guys you all get a chance all right go ahead

572
01:59:16,000 --> 01:59:40,000
Speaker 2: Desert 3D? Yeah, I - Okay, well, when I said I was gonna go and it was a little different tone, but I just thought I would give my personal experience I think I have six or seven files on DefCAD right now. I had got they had stolen about three of them.

573
01:59:41,000 --> 01:59:46,000
Speaker 10: I ended up reaching out to whoever it was at DefCAD,

574
01:59:46,000 --> 01:59:48,000
Speaker 3: claiming ownership, not that I wanted

575
01:59:49,000 --> 01:59:56,000
Speaker 2: but they were my files. doing so he decided that was permission to take more

576
01:59:57,000 --> 02:00:10,000
Speaker 3: including beta stuff and untested things not want put out there. Um, been reached out to by

577
02:00:10,000 --> 02:00:22,000
Speaker 2: Dr. Death and catalog people about projects. And I have told them that, you know, I run with the 2A Print Depot and that that's where I do my beta stuff. And they have, you know,

578
02:00:22,000 --> 02:00:29,000
Speaker 3: respectfully taken that and that has been my experience. And I really don't like things

579
02:00:32,000 --> 02:00:58,000
Speaker 2: That's not, you know, none of my shit should be sold because I put my especially not without my permission, And the whole thing just feels not like what this whole thing is about. But you're okay with that, right, FGM? I am okay with that. And I think the reason why I'm okay with that,

580
02:00:58,000 --> 02:01:04,000
Speaker 1: I am for false. I am for open source. I am for second amendment by any

581
02:01:05,000 --> 02:01:25,000
Speaker 10: necessary. You don't want your files being used by somebody, either don't put them out or like the catalog did, copyright it. That doesn't mean I don't like you as a person, because I think you're pretty fucking cool. Or a limited license.

582
02:01:26,000 --> 02:01:39,000
Speaker 2: of the beta stuff gets a little limiting. So yeah, I do end up releasing some beta stuff publicly, but I still feel like it's irresponsible of Def Cad to post those things because people do have an assumption.

583
02:01:40,000 --> 02:01:44,000
Speaker 3: righteous or not that Def Cad has done some sort of research

584
02:01:45,000 --> 02:01:54,000
Speaker 2: sure the files that they're posted are proven that's why they can charge for them and uh i feel like that's uh not only dangerous but mislead

585
02:01:54,000 --> 02:02:01,000
Speaker 3: and irresponsible. you there I think DefCAD needs to do better there I think

586
02:02:01,000 --> 02:02:06,000
Speaker 10: - Yeah, they need to start looking into what they upload more.

587
02:02:07,000 --> 02:02:10,000
Speaker 2: - It's not a monetary thing, that's just for everyone's safety.

588
02:02:11,000 --> 02:02:17,000
Speaker 3: hurt, you know, it's no fun for anyone. That's not the point. That's not what we're here for. You know what? I've got a dumb idea.

589
02:02:18,000 --> 02:02:52,000
Speaker 10: had people who are listening. This is a genuinely dumb, but possibly good idea. Why don't you go through the trouble of going over all the files that you've got on there, print a copy, test them, make sure they work, boom, you've got an entire pattern room's worth of pretty much every 3D printed gun design out there, and you can see what's going on. work or not. I mean, shoot, you could even put that up on, you know, Odyssey or YouTube or Rumble or whatever the plot. everyone's using nowadays and actually get mega views from that.

590
02:02:52,000 --> 02:02:55,000
Speaker 1: You know, why don't you do that? That sounds like a lot of work.

591
02:03:02,000 --> 02:03:04,000
Speaker 5: - Come on!

592
02:03:04,000 --> 02:03:29,000
Speaker 2: on the developer to not release things that aren't completed is not a way to run a business, which it clearly is a business. You know, that's up to the business to destroy. are adequate to host, whether they're stealing them or not. That's not on the random person posting something on Odyssey. All right. Thank you, Desert3D, for speaking. Next up, we've got...

593
02:03:30,000 --> 02:03:43,000
Speaker 1: go tech and then we'll get Brad in here jungle tech I'm adding you as a speaker you have been accepted make Your mic is not muted. and please be respectful go ahead jungle tech

594
02:03:44,000 --> 02:06:13,000
Speaker 4: we can hear you working we can hear you thank you um all right i only had a couple points that i wanted to touch on and uh yeah for what it's worth i got some uh adhd which is why i wrote some of this stuff down i'll try and keep it quick smart man you got you you learn from your mistakes right this way it's got to be um And I don't want to sound like this. and this is a real thing about it and i'm not sure if you're not always doing that but i'm not sure if you're not just paranoid but remember always remember bad people are listening bad people are watching bad people are literally cataloging anything you put out there in public um and then also bad people though perhaps some of the same um statistically will exist for whatever haven't seen that for whatever their reasons, they might not want to see unify and operate efficiently. or what have you, just remember paranoia over, I think most of the time the drama that we deal with is people's personal beefs or ideological beefs. I don't think that you probably have a lot of people like government people trying to fuck your shit up and cause strife within a given scene. But it's also likely to assume that it does occur and it will occur given more prominence that a scene gets. the internet is going to get a lot of attention so always remember that um i think with regards to fdm you know i don't know the guy personally i only know um what i can read on the screen and listen to you know in spaces like this um uh i think in the past i followed the guy uh as i did with a lot I've seen them pop up in some of the drama lately. And sure, I'll respond to something that I perceive somebody says is silly or poorly argued or what have you.

595
02:06:14,000 --> 02:06:21,000
Speaker 2: we have our motivations for saying what we say, but I don't understand Personally, we...

596
02:06:21,000 --> 02:07:13,000
Speaker 4: association is like why he feels that he needs to go to bat here so strongly that he is sitting here and potentially taking abuse when the crux of one of his arguments seems to be like be more positive because not being positive in this space will drive away people that we do want in the space

597
02:07:15,000 --> 02:07:19,000
Speaker 2: table with fucking prepared shit to talk about.

598
02:07:19,000 --> 02:09:15,000
Speaker 4: you had a little bit of a heads up and you know you were told like people want to hear you have to say so like maybe in the future, at least like again, write this sort of shit down, right? OK, that's that. Effectively, like I'm not going to go out there and say like you're arguing but I also don't think you're articulating whatever arguments you're trying to make very well other than saying I don't like Gatalog because they don't like Defcad and are not afraid to fucking speak out about it and the people that do like Gatalog or perhaps prefer them and don't like Defcad for whatever reason I would say most of those are probably pretty justified it's been covered to death already right they're allowed to have their prerogative they're allowed to come on Twitter is sort of a very toxic place, whether you like the social media or You should understand what the atmosphere is and if you choose to stick around. Right. So again, I'm not saying you're arguing a bad faith. articulating it very well. And then you come and say, Cody, daddy shit. And then people are like, well, okay, is he trolling? Is he fucking around because he's not taking it seriously? Is this an effort to just air out some grievances that maybe have nothing to do with DefCAD, but DefCAD are an easy fucking boogeyman to get people to pay attention to, and then you can push whatever your fucking agenda is once you've got some attention. Yeah, people are always going to have their personal shit.

599
02:09:17,000 --> 02:09:25,000
Speaker 2: I'll just go quickly into it. Like I don't have a lot of A lot of experience, but I do know costs can be non-zero costs

600
02:09:29,000 --> 02:10:30,000
Speaker 4: system, that is non-zero obviously, but also if you're smart, it probably doesn't have to cost hundreds of thousand dollars. speak up on it, because I don't. If you can, even if you want to It costs $10,000 a month, XYZ, whatever it is. I'm not sure if you can speak on it, please go ahead. But unless it's legally obligated, They also could have done all sorts of technologies that are out there, distributed systems, IPFS, Torrance if you had to, I mean, I don't know why you would do it this way, but it is what it is. I mean, there's no technically that copy of the Foscad repo that Gatalog keeps server somewhere. Yeah. Yeah, sorry, but by all means, anybody speak up to interrupt me at any if you let me. Sorry, go ahead. Go ahead.

601
02:10:31,000 --> 02:10:50,000
Speaker 10: If we're talking about cost valuation, I've talked plenty with host server regarding how much it costs to keep the print 2A repo running. And if he had the amount of money coming in that Cody evidently has coming into DefCAD, he would be substantially well off. He would be substantially well off.

602
02:10:50,000 --> 02:10:55,000
Speaker 1: more well off than he is. And he probably wouldn't be dealing with stuff like fixing

603
02:10:56,000 --> 02:11:02,000
Speaker 10: and dealing with plumbing and whatnot. The cost to keep the print to a repo up and running

604
02:11:05,000 --> 02:11:30,000
Speaker 2: has just a completely different interface. Right, absolutely. Yeah, I again, without knowing any more details about beyond what has been discussed and what's published regarding any sort of costs in the context of obligations he may have to structure

605
02:11:30,000 --> 02:11:46,000
Speaker 4: and infrastructure in a certain way to comply with. and legal obligations. like sort of a flimsy argument, right? Like, as you said, you can structure your infrastructure a different

606
02:11:48,000 --> 02:12:23,000
Speaker 10: cheaply um you know i'm just disappointed that he he screwed the whole thing up with messaging because i i went over to i went over to my devcat because i did upload my devcat once upon a time like the old paper prints and whatnot and it says i've got two messages i click on them and they lead me to a redirect the main page and i have no way to respond to whatever this person apparently

607
02:12:23,000 --> 02:12:38,000
Speaker 2: What the heck? point here. Yeah, I mean, from an outsider's perspective, who only used, in quotes, DefCAD...

608
02:12:39,000 --> 02:13:49,000
Speaker 4: the point where it's like okay you need an account fine and you go in and you see yeah they're requesting all this pii from you and like a lot of other sane individuals i said no and walked away at that point and it's only then later you hear about oh they've taken our files they they won't You know, yada, yada, yada. Yeah. If you're saying to somebody, sure, I'll take down your files, but only if you DMCA it. And therefore I have your information because you're legally obligated to provide that as part of a legal claim. Well, faith versus bad faith. Why would you want to collect that information? to that point such that they do it, rather than just say, "You know what? I am operating in good faith here, in the context of benefiting the scene and the community." So yeah, I will honor your polite verbal request to take down stuff that is not mine, or I no longer have permission to host or didn't in the first place. So yeah, it begs the question, why would you collect that?

609
02:13:52,000 --> 02:13:59,000
Speaker 2: part of your own desires, schemes, what to have that and hold as

610
02:14:00,000 --> 02:14:03,000
Speaker 1: - Like leverage, yeah, I agree.

611
02:14:04,000 --> 02:14:05,000
Speaker 4: there is a way that comes

612
02:14:05,000 --> 02:14:13,000
Speaker 10: could have tried to do it better if Cody had kept the page and included a link to the Odyssey where the files were

613
02:14:13,000 --> 02:14:24,000
Speaker 1: Because remember, if you upload something on DefCAD, it is perfectly possible for you to put a link into your... to go to another meeting

614
02:14:25,000 --> 02:14:26,000
Speaker 10: whatnot and downloaded from there.

615
02:14:27,000 --> 02:14:33,000
Speaker 1: from Defcat, if he had kept that link up on whatever it is that they had asked him to remove, but kept

616
02:14:33,000 --> 02:14:37,000
Speaker 10: but didn't allow you to download it from DefCAD,

617
02:14:37,000 --> 02:14:46,000
Speaker 1: people wouldn't be complaining. - Good to speak brother. for like an hour.

618
02:14:48,000 --> 02:14:51,000
Speaker 3: - All right.

619
02:14:52,000 --> 02:15:07,000
Speaker 10: Go for it. I just want to give on somebody who's new to the community. And like, I remember about five months ago, I was researching all about how to get started into this and how

620
02:15:08,000 --> 02:15:10,000
Speaker 4: and watching all the news.

621
02:15:11,000 --> 02:15:14,000
Speaker 10: clips or whatever, and they prop out

622
02:15:14,000 --> 02:15:16,000
Speaker 3: Cody is...

623
02:15:17,000 --> 02:15:18,000
Speaker 4: founding father of

624
02:15:18,000 --> 02:15:20,000
Speaker 10: printed guns, so you think,

625
02:15:21,000 --> 02:15:23,000
Speaker 4: this and watching

626
02:15:24,000 --> 02:15:25,000
Speaker 10: and he's on all of the,

627
02:15:25,000 --> 02:15:27,000
Speaker 2: and stuff.

628
02:15:28,000 --> 02:15:40,000
Speaker 10: You know, it's almost like he does no wrong. But then once you finally once I finally researching and looking into it and seeing what he's done

629
02:15:41,000 --> 02:16:37,000
Speaker 1: obviously the pedophile case and what he does at DEFCAD and how he steals files and all that, you know, it's kind of like, it's an awakening moment, but I just feel like this is going to be a problem for a while because he's such the mainstream. So as somebody who's new or a surface level, that's they see they see him being propped up as the as the founding figure of this this whole space when on reality he's just the kingpin and he does no work kind of like that but while it's just kind of no yeah you're right and uh wild arms research uh in the space he did add some context to that where um On the FDM arms claim that Cody has done more than 90% of anyone in the chat.

630
02:16:39,000 --> 02:16:48,000
Speaker 10: You mentioned that an all plastic gun had been developed decades prior to the Liberator. So it's not as revolutionary as what it was made out to be. And he then links a screenshot.

631
02:16:48,000 --> 02:16:51,000
Speaker 1: Bill Holmes' famous book,

632
02:16:52,000 --> 02:17:03,000
Speaker 10: his Paladin Press book, stating, quote, "I built an all-plastic .22 pistol that would pass through any metal detector in the world. It wasn't really all plastic. It was mostly nylon and had a

633
02:17:03,000 --> 02:17:35,000
Speaker 1: ceramic firing pin. Ammunition for this weapon was concealed. a special belt buckle. Several were smuggled aboard aircraft completely undetected. So it sounds like this had been done before Cody Wilson, before the Liberator, but Cody Wilson came into this, and I want to say he kind of saw an opportunity to be the face of it because others didn't want to. To be fair, to be fair, Holmes' claim. There has never been any evidence whatsoever other than Holmes'

634
02:17:36,000 --> 02:17:38,000
Speaker 10: that the gun in question ever existed.

635
02:17:40,000 --> 02:17:44,000
Speaker 2: - Hmm? - Sorry, this Mr. Holmes you're talking of,

636
02:17:44,000 --> 02:17:46,000
Speaker 4: who worked in conjunction

637
02:17:46,000 --> 02:18:10,000
Speaker 1: to develop the Liberator? No, Holmes has been dead for years. We're talking about... Okay, sorry. Bill Holmes created a lot of the Paladin Press books. Prior to the Hughes Amendment coming in, he made and sold a number of different machine gun designs. Eventually, when he was forced to stop making machine guns, he then ended up turning his knowledge

638
02:18:10,000 --> 02:18:22,000
Speaker 10: books, which he then sold through, I believe, Desert Publications and Paladin Press. He even made a video at one point, which I believe is still on YouTube. So he has nothing

639
02:18:24,000 --> 02:18:31,000
Speaker 1: Defense distributed wise, but this is great information. I don't know any of this Yeah, you know, no

640
02:18:33,000 --> 02:18:45,000
Speaker 10: guard it well, or whatever the blood ribbons say. - You should pirate all those books. They're available everywhere. - Oh yeah, they make up a huge chunk of like my own personal repo.

641
02:18:47,000 --> 02:18:49,000
Speaker 3: I was a mad genius back in the day.

642
02:18:50,000 --> 02:19:00,000
Speaker 10: but a counterpoint that is actually applicable and which we have Northarms P12 prototype was per its designer 3D printed.

643
02:19:01,000 --> 02:19:06,000
Speaker 1: means that, you know, that thing came out in 2006.

644
02:19:07,000 --> 02:19:13,000
Speaker 10: a one-off prototype that never saw by the way. It's literally a shotgun P90.

645
02:19:15,000 --> 02:19:35,000
Speaker 1: even though it never really saw the light of day, it would technically be the first 3D printed firearm to be ever made. Great information. Thank you for sharing. Bryce Dunn looks like he's the last person here requesting the Go ahead, Bryce, the floor is yours.

646
02:19:36,000 --> 02:19:56,000
Speaker 3: real quick I just wanted to say I go by Rev and Reengineered on GrabCAD. And somebody ripped all my stuff from that and is pretending to be me on DefCAD. So that's not me on there. Somebody's making money off of my work on that.

647
02:19:56,000 --> 02:20:00,000
Speaker 10: DEFCAD. Have you requested that they remove it?

648
02:20:01,000 --> 02:20:03,000
Speaker 9: Yeah, but they wouldn't do anything about it.

649
02:20:03,000 --> 02:20:05,000
Speaker 2: - I'm asking nicely.

650
02:20:06,000 --> 02:20:17,000
Speaker 4: - Yeah, that's the meme, but okay, so... I mentioned, did you file a DMCA, which is what he wants you to do? No. Yeah.

651
02:20:17,000 --> 02:20:18,000
Speaker 1: - Yeah.

652
02:20:19,000 --> 02:20:20,000
Speaker 2: I would probably file a DNI.

653
02:20:21,000 --> 02:20:24,000
Speaker 3: if that changes anything.

654
02:20:24,000 --> 02:20:35,000
Speaker 10: that's what he wants be careful all these newcomers like the previous one into the space they don't understand what this space is for I don't

655
02:20:36,000 --> 02:20:40,000
Speaker 1: I think you've lost your way.

656
02:20:41,000 --> 02:20:49,000
Speaker 10: have lost your way. You don't understand what this space is for. I'm wounded. I'm wounded FDF. Please tell them. Please tell them. I'm not trying to

657
02:20:50,000 --> 02:20:52,000
Speaker 4: light up you.

658
02:20:53,000 --> 02:21:16,000
Speaker 1: - Okay, let's get to the point brother. They call it FOSC. There's a reason why It's a Foss cat. It's Foss. It's open source. I keep, you know, parroting that for a reason. We're here to distribute firearms designs to everyone

659
02:21:16,000 --> 02:21:51,000
Speaker 4: anywhere by any means. You're arguing against that premise entirely. Just FYI. You gotta listen to me. That includes monetization, Not monetization. - Free, doesn't imply monetization, FDM. We can do it however the fuck we want. License, no license. Money, no money. You understand that, right? Okay. So why are we talking about it? We're on the same page. We're not. We're not because you have a problem with other people making money.

660
02:21:52,000 --> 02:21:58,000
Speaker 10: - I personally don't. - No, I'm just saying like, and that's a problem because

661
02:21:59,000 --> 02:22:10,000
Speaker 1: into the space, they this is fucking etsy it's not there's a reason why this space was found and it wasn't to to get your name out there and have a little clip.

662
02:22:10,000 --> 02:22:30,000
Speaker 4: out and put your little copyright on it. No, it was to distribute freedom. It was to distribute the second amendment, the right to bear arms. Right. But like, period. People aren't obligated to have the same ideology as you for why they do the thing.

663
02:22:32,000 --> 02:22:33,000
Speaker 1: are obligated to promote

664
02:22:34,000 --> 02:22:36,000
Speaker 2: those views because

665
02:22:37,000 --> 02:22:47,000
Speaker 10: we were some of the founders. I mean, some of us have been here for a while. I'm not a founder, but we need to carry that throughout and we need to-

666
02:22:47,000 --> 02:23:06,000
Speaker 1: Can I throw a conspiracy theory out here? Sure. Let's hear it. FDM is completely 100% wrong via... that FOSCAD was created was because US arms development is 30 years behind the rest of the world. They wanted to use the to come up with something in

667
02:23:12,000 --> 02:23:16,000
Speaker 2: and no one wanted to work with them, they reached out to Sig. "Oh yeah, here's Sig."

668
02:23:17,000 --> 02:23:19,000
Speaker 10: Pistol design blows?

669
02:23:20,000 --> 02:23:21,000
Speaker 1: the MCX spear contract,

670
02:23:21,000 --> 02:23:23,000
Speaker 6: Hope you love it.

671
02:23:24,000 --> 02:23:30,000
Speaker 10: my conspiracy theory. Bruh. Come on, man.

672
02:23:30,000 --> 02:23:32,000
Speaker 1: I'd like to hear from Nikolai

673
02:23:37,000 --> 02:23:39,000
Speaker 3: Jonah, get ready.

674
02:23:39,000 --> 02:23:58,000
Speaker 1: -Nikolai has been doing - Jonah, if you'd like to chime in, Sheen has been hanging out with us as well. yourself a speaker or send Add you once again, let's remind everyone cordial here. Nikolai, ready when you are, brother?

675
02:24:01,000 --> 02:24:03,000
Speaker 4: Well, hello, everybody.

676
02:24:03,000 --> 02:24:15,000
Speaker 1: You're pretty flat, man. Also, you need to put your accent on. Yeah, you got some echo going on, brother. Yeah, give me like two seconds. All right.

677
02:24:17,000 --> 02:24:18,000
Speaker 2: - Yeah.

678
02:24:20,000 --> 02:24:23,000
Speaker 1: also requesting to speak.

679
02:24:24,000 --> 02:24:33,000
Speaker 4: me up. Sorry. Yeah, someone's echoing you. Yeah, it's Nikolai.

680
02:24:36,000 --> 02:24:37,000
Speaker 3: - And we still hear the air go to.

681
02:24:38,000 --> 02:24:47,000
Speaker 1: - Put headphones on. - No, I don't. laptop and the phone open at the same time.

682
02:24:51,000 --> 02:24:53,000
Speaker 10: here. Ligma.

683
02:24:54,000 --> 02:24:56,000
Speaker 3: - Aw, he muted himself.

684
02:24:56,000 --> 02:25:18,000
Speaker 1: figured out it was fucking up for me too that's why Skylots Jonathan, you've been added in while Romanov Figures his shit out looks like you've had up for a while go ahead brother Thank you and I want to say thank you for hosting this and actually getting everyone to air this bullshit out

685
02:25:21,000 --> 02:25:23,000
Speaker 4: I'm literally

686
02:25:28,000 --> 02:25:40,000
Speaker 2: any form of a release right now. It's just failure after failure, but is like as far as i understood when i came into this space. I came into this space more so officially,

687
02:25:41,000 --> 02:25:43,000
Speaker 1: but I kind of always...

688
02:25:43,000 --> 02:25:59,000
Speaker 2: was around. but not really doing anything because I just wasn't there yet. I wasn't, But regardless of that, - When I came in here, I noticed the disturbing trend school drama. the plague the space.

689
02:25:59,000 --> 02:26:04,000
Speaker 4: And as I'm not saying what you guys are arguing, is unjustified because you know,

690
02:26:04,000 --> 02:26:06,000
Speaker 10: some legit issues, particularly

691
02:26:06,000 --> 02:26:07,000
Speaker 8: with DEFCAD

692
02:26:09,000 --> 02:26:11,000
Speaker 2: that comes out and then probably

693
02:26:14,000 --> 02:26:18,000
Speaker 1: understandably, is extremely frustrating. But I think that

694
02:26:19,000 --> 02:26:39,000
Speaker 2: the constant infighting that we're having this is almost like the Libertarian Party. We need to try to figure out a way to get away from it because it's like wasting time. It's like spinning the gears. I feel it's like it's stagnating the community from just focusing on making guns.

695
02:26:39,000 --> 02:26:44,000
Speaker 3: the etf and government officials like the what else are we doing here like you

696
02:26:45,000 --> 02:26:52,000
Speaker 2: were just talking about, like, what is the whole purpose of this movement? What is the whole purpose of 3D2As? As far as I understood was get a gun in everyone's hands.

697
02:26:58,000 --> 02:27:00,000
Speaker 10: officials that want to be tyrannical. You are correct.

698
02:27:01,000 --> 02:27:56,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, so what I want to say is-- Clouds, can I touch on that? Oh, yeah, sure. You're saying we need to stop the infighting, we need to focus on But you also acknowledge that what DefCAD is doing is wrong, correct? Absolutely. I think Cody's an absolute piece of shit for taking free files, and we need to get the word out. Okay. They're going to charge you for something free. I would say the word is free. What is the alternative to taking of the FedCAD problem, when they're the ones stealing the files, putting them behind a behind a paywall, excuse me. And then saying they are the only arbiters of those files and that they're the only place that you can legally download them. What is the alternative to dealing with that? - So it sounds kind of crazy, but like we need to make a splash.

699
02:27:57,000 --> 02:28:08,000
Speaker 2: There needs to be something so... I don't want to say innovative, but just something so... - There has been, it's makers.

700
02:28:08,000 --> 02:28:55,000
Speaker 1: There was a whole Vice episode on this, the Gunmakers match, I believe, became pretty mainstream. I think that video on YouTube as well, like 10 million views or something. Um, and the active effort recently has been. posting under DefQ with the whole FedCAD steal and then that whole breakdown spiel of what Ivan said once upon a time on a long Twitter post, the only thing possible at this moment to try to get the word out, to let people know what they're doing and how scummy it is and that there are alternatives out there. I think that's... But none of those have stopped them from stealing files, right, Ralph?

701
02:28:55,000 --> 02:30:13,000
Speaker 4: Well, no, no, that's the thing. We're not going to be able to stop it. As long as we have free open source files. We are. That's why there's a lawsuit going on right and FedCAD. So if you're going to do that, that's your prerogative. I'm not going to say you're wrong. I'm not saying it's my prerogative. I'm just saying that's in a way you address it. You say, hey, you said to sue you, or we're going to sue you. I look at it like this, man. He's China. We're America. We innovate. We create. He copies and makes cheap clones. You know what I mean? We're never going to get China to stop ripping a design from the world. blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. He markets himself as that. And there's, how do you go around And where does that copyright shit end? Where does that end? Does it does it end with the mean devilish pedophile? No Can you download Linux right now FTM? Yes, I can download Linux. Yeah, it's copyrighted and trademarked. So what's your fucking point? We're going back to software because this software versus files same shit, dude, this whole community is

702
02:30:13,000 --> 02:30:30,000
Speaker 10: is so toxic and vindictive. You start copywriting shit and you say, oh, we're just going against Cody right now. You're being bad. What are you talking about? rated, dude. So copyright's not the issue, it's the restrictions. The moment you add any kind of restriction

703
02:30:30,000 --> 02:30:41,000
Speaker 4: against anyone, you all of a sudden lose that free and open source aspect. The free is going to be free. Can you not go download the Hitchhiker right now? I understand that, but what I am.

704
02:30:42,000 --> 02:31:03,000
Speaker 10: - Let me finish, let me finish. The moment you start to restrict anything, if you are truly free and open source, the moment you put a restriction on that is it is against free and open source. You can call the hitchhiker not open source. You have to pay. Hold on. Give me one second.

705
02:31:04,000 --> 02:31:09,000
Speaker 4: Free is specifically freedom in free and open source. So I get

706
02:31:10,000 --> 02:31:15,000
Speaker 10: But you can't call something free and open source - Of course, when you're thinking--

707
02:31:15,000 --> 02:31:17,000
Speaker 4: source. Defqad is

708
02:31:19,000 --> 02:31:24,000
Speaker 10: It's not. That's what I'm trying to tell you. It's not free and open source. That is okay.

709
02:31:25,000 --> 02:31:33,000
Speaker 1: Hey guys, I did something really amazing. I went to Odyssey and I downloaded this zip package and it's got all the information.

710
02:31:34,000 --> 02:31:46,000
Speaker 10: in it and uh you know how much i paid zero dollars and zero cents for it here's a good question here's a good question are you for gun control

711
02:31:47,000 --> 02:32:06,000
Speaker 4: What does that have to do with anything, dude? - What's your point in asking the question? What point are you trying to get to? Don't ask around, ask the question directly. - If you're for, it sounds like you're for gun control. I mean- - How? - I'll arrive at your conclusion. - Who are you?

712
02:32:07,000 --> 02:32:09,000
Speaker 10: Who is asking that and who they're referring to.

713
02:32:10,000 --> 02:32:12,000
Speaker 1: The free distribution.

714
02:32:13,000 --> 02:32:20,000
Speaker 10: of guns and files or you're against it. It's just like the gun control argument.

715
02:32:21,000 --> 02:32:25,000
Speaker 4: against that distribution, that's FDM, yes.

716
02:32:26,000 --> 02:32:34,000
Speaker 1: brother sounds like you're not echoing talk to us yeah i i unfuck my shit uh i was on my phone i have my computer uh

717
02:32:35,000 --> 02:33:04,000
Speaker 4: sounds morning earlier and it like auto connected to my microphone is the speaker for some reason so fucked up. Anyways, I'm here. So first off, we're talking about right now. perspective as a developer, OK, what I don't is the fact that if I were to go to FedCAD right now, right? And I would ask them to take my files down, what would happen, right? In the chain of events, I would ask them and then they would be like,

718
02:33:05,000 --> 02:33:07,000
Speaker 1: How do we know you're the real Nicolai Roman?

719
02:33:08,000 --> 02:33:15,000
Speaker 4: right, would be question number one. And so then I have to provide them with some kind of information that could potentially

720
02:33:15,000 --> 02:33:23,000
Speaker 3: docks me, right? I would have to somehow verify that I'm the real Nikolai Romanov. And then if that happens,

721
02:33:25,000 --> 02:33:37,000
Speaker 4: they can include me in a multi-state rico lawsuit even if i have nothing to do with it and the only thing that's happening is i'm being as a witness, and then they're effectively doxing me

722
02:33:37,000 --> 02:33:40,000
Speaker 1: of the world. Just by including me in the

723
02:33:40,000 --> 02:33:47,000
Speaker 4: because it's all fucking public record, right? So they can do that. And here's the problem, OK?

724
02:33:47,000 --> 02:33:54,000
Speaker 1: And all of my... I haven't even done it anymore because it's fucking pointless. But in the release for the Tamar,

725
02:33:54,000 --> 02:33:59,000
Speaker 4: which was originally published on the catalog and which I eventually requested to be taken down for

726
02:34:00,000 --> 02:34:02,000
Speaker 9: They were a lot of people who were

727
02:34:03,000 --> 02:34:05,000
Speaker 1: catalog. And they uploaded it on the

728
02:34:06,000 --> 02:34:14,000
Speaker 4: I literally have a line in there which says, Cody Wilson is not allowed to use these files. did not stop them and I have never ever

729
02:34:15,000 --> 02:34:16,000
Speaker 1: that I am free open source

730
02:34:16,000 --> 02:34:18,000
Speaker 4: software, because I think that idea is kind of

731
02:34:18,000 --> 02:34:23,000
Speaker 1: started. Okay. And here's Why? Because I'm going to sit here and I'm just going to

732
02:34:24,000 --> 02:34:54,000
Speaker 4: everybody profit off of my work and make nothing. Right. That's there's a reason law and that intellectual property law exists. And it's because what happens if you don't incentivize people that have intellectual property, that have the ability to create intellectual property? profit off of their work, right? I'm going to make something. Somebody else is going to steal it. They're going to make a bunch of money off of it. And I'm going to be fucking destitute. I'm going to have nothing. I'm going to have never made any money from that.

733
02:34:55,000 --> 02:34:57,000
Speaker 1: even know who I am now.

734
02:34:57,000 --> 02:35:07,000
Speaker 4: to abuse it fucking thomas edison is a notorious example of this everybody thinks he's a famous inventor he stole a lot of shit right he abused

735
02:35:07,000 --> 02:35:08,000
Speaker 3: law to do that.

736
02:35:09,000 --> 02:35:26,000
Speaker 4: that's something that happens. but intellectual property law in my mind creator is there to protect the people that create so that they're actually incentivized to do so. Versus if I were to have made all of my suppressor designs right.

737
02:35:28,000 --> 02:35:30,000
Speaker 9: because I had

738
02:35:30,000 --> 02:35:45,000
Speaker 4: testers that help me out and figure out the problems with them. the kinks out but if i had made all my suppressor designs and just kept them to myself right what's why should i give you the files if going to get credit for it in some form

739
02:35:45,000 --> 02:35:46,000
Speaker 10: Right.

740
02:35:46,000 --> 02:36:25,000
Speaker 4: I choose to do it out of my because I believe that it is more important. But if you're talking about money, I would like to be able to benefit from my own intellectual property. I'd like to be able to control the fact that Cody Wilson is making oodles of money off of my shit probably right with and never because he doesn't have to because I'm not going to If all they did was take shit down that doesn't belong to them and only host files that people give them and have permission to host, no one would fucking care.

741
02:36:26,000 --> 02:36:27,000
Speaker 7: I should. I should.

742
02:36:27,000 --> 02:36:29,000
Speaker 2: point out your example of putting

743
02:36:30,000 --> 02:36:33,000
Speaker 1: putting in the file documentation, Cody will

744
02:36:33,000 --> 02:36:35,000
Speaker 6: and cannot have access to this,

745
02:36:35,000 --> 02:36:40,000
Speaker 10: It reminds me of the, I believe, the Black 2.0 Paint Creator.

746
02:36:40,000 --> 02:36:45,000
Speaker 4: do you remember that guys black 2.0 yeah yeah vanta black right

747
02:36:46,000 --> 02:36:48,000
Speaker 9: Yeah, Aneesh Kapoor came up with Van

748
02:36:48,000 --> 02:37:16,000
Speaker 1: and they refused to let everybody use it. So a guy came up with a paint called Black 2.0, and pretty much allowed anyone and everyone who wanted to use it to use it. And if you were to go to buy the latest version of that Black 4.0, at the bottom of the page, it says, quote, "Note, by adding this product to your cart, you confirm you are not Anish Kapoor. You are in no way affiliated to Anish Kapoor. not purchasing this item on behalf of Anish Kapoor and associated Anish

749
02:37:16,000 --> 02:37:27,000
Speaker 10: to the best of your knowledge, information, and belief, this material will not make its way into the hands of Anish Kapoor." Basically, you're doing the same thing, but with coding. - Yeah, and right.

750
02:37:28,000 --> 02:37:39,000
Speaker 4: about that is he ended up getting some eventually, right? It's never something that's going to work 100% of the time, but in this specific situation, I call out DevCAD, Cody Wilson,

751
02:37:39,000 --> 02:39:01,000
Speaker 1: distributed and say they are not to use my files to make money. They don't care. They uploaded that shit anyways. As someone who came into the space as a builder, as a hobbyist, as someone just looking for something to do after work or in my free time, I always understood this space as being everyone is doing it as a hobby. And then later on, I came to see that there are people who want that files are free you're spending your money on parts filament other shit you shouldn't have to pay for the files so I get what you're saying as a developer the amount of time that you're putting in to actually create the files I see that as an investment that you are making to create a name for yourself that's once again this is just my perspective as a builder as someone who's hung out with Chairman Juan, and I've watched this man, Cad, like we're hanging out drinking beer. This man does it for the fun of it, just to know that he can put the shit out and have other people say, "Hey, check out my new chairman Juan Glock. He just wants me to And I think that's why a lot of people do it.

752
02:39:02,000 --> 02:39:03,000
Speaker 2: to feel like they're

753
02:39:04,000 --> 02:40:31,000
Speaker 1: like they, I guess the notoriety, like people just want to know that they're a part of it and everyone else knows that it was them that did it. Once again, I get it. People want to make money on this because It's a talent. You have to know how to work these programs. You're spending countless hours that you could be spending with your family, your kids, doing other shit, but you're putting in all this time. And this goes back to Unseen Killer that we had at the beginning of the show. This man is dedicating literally all time to help other people just, I guess, to feel better about himself, to feel like he's doing something good. But to make my point here, files in my head have always been and should always be free because you're spending your money on other shit to make that project happen. Like Hoffman. Hoffman's a great example. His files are free, but he also sells parts kits. So in the game in any of the drama, ever. You will never see Hoffman chime in on any of this bullshit. Why? Because he knows it's counterproductive to his business. If you...

754
02:40:31,000 --> 02:40:51,000
Speaker 10: there's one there's one counterpoint to that when we were at shot when we were at shot uh this past year doing V, Middleton, 3D Arms. We all went to the Airbnb we were at, and I will admit Hoffman, I think, made a couple shots when we were playing Jackbox.

755
02:40:52,000 --> 02:40:57,000
Speaker 3: at Cody Wilson, but that's literally the closest I can think of. And we, and remember Garrett,

756
02:40:57,000 --> 02:41:05,000
Speaker 10: To be fair-- Garrett was literally-- we were all staring at Garrett, as we just kept saying, yeah, Cody Wilson, Cody Wilson. To be fair, I've hung up.

757
02:41:06,000 --> 02:41:35,000
Speaker 1: I've been in person several times or say Hoffman said this on the internet because I have that respect for him. So I would never use because I'm like, damn, bro, why didn't you say that on Twitter? Nah, I'd rather not. Because he understands that it would hurt his brain. business. said, I think he's a great model for what a business in this

758
02:41:36,000 --> 02:41:38,000
Speaker 2: all that personal shit,

759
02:41:40,000 --> 02:41:46,000
Speaker 1: as a business, give them the files. the message of everyone having guns, fuck the ATF.

760
02:41:46,000 --> 02:41:54,000
Speaker 2: all that shit. But once we start and we're like, "Well, this person said this and it made me feel this way."

761
02:41:54,000 --> 02:42:11,000
Speaker 1: like that, how this other person's doing it, it fucks everything up. That's why we have drama because a bunch of grown men are getting in their feelings. I think that's where all this shit started. I thought grown men weren't supposed to talk about their

762
02:42:11,000 --> 02:42:17,000
Speaker 2: We're just supposed to get over it. But we do. Here we are talking about our feelings.

763
02:42:18,000 --> 02:42:23,000
Speaker 1: - My feeling is that it's just a waste of time for everybody.

764
02:42:26,000 --> 02:42:30,000
Speaker 10: I just gotta say this real quick. And I agree with you, Ralph. that

765
02:42:31,000 --> 02:42:35,000
Speaker 4: of this drama is and i get it you know you guys are wronged you have

766
02:42:36,000 --> 02:42:37,000
Speaker 2: Good designs that are being stolen

767
02:42:39,000 --> 02:42:40,000
Speaker 3: Basically, you're not making a

768
02:42:40,000 --> 02:42:47,000
Speaker 2: I understand if you are willing to go the route of actually DCMing or DMCA whatever that is to

769
02:42:47,000 --> 02:42:49,000
Speaker 10: with DefCAD, like do

770
02:42:50,000 --> 02:42:55,000
Speaker 2: Like, you know, by all means, you have that right, and you should, if you can. And I understand, you know,

771
02:42:56,000 --> 02:42:58,000
Speaker 1: try to make sure that the innocent people,

772
02:43:00,000 --> 02:43:05,000
Speaker 2: that Def Cad trap, but there's always gonna be someone.

773
02:43:05,000 --> 02:43:09,000
Speaker 4: not DefCAD. Right now it's DefCAD. There's going to be someone after that that's going

774
02:43:09,000 --> 02:43:36,000
Speaker 2: the same shit that Cody's doing. It's just because he has that fucking notoriety of the Liberator, which was a piece of shit in the first place. You know, the fact that he even has a name to stand on. And I think part of the problem is everyone is two and a half We don't have another figurehead that Cody Wilson is willing to do. He's willing to put his name out there and put his face out there to go to the news and go to the

775
02:43:37,000 --> 02:43:53,000
Speaker 4: Vice and all that other bullshit. You know, he's willing to be public about it and able to talk about it. And the thing is, as long as we remain in the shadows as anonymous and, you know, as individual developers under a name and you don't have a face to bring forward, there's never gonna be a brand that

776
02:43:54,000 --> 02:44:34,000
Speaker 1: can fall behind. You know, like, I don't remember who was asking. I think it was, um, and I think that's why a lot of folks attacked me as well, because I put my name and my face this guy. Cause I came out at one point saying like, who the fuck are these a non trying to attack me on the internet? I was like, who the fuck are you? profile picture. And I get that. These people don't want to be known. They don't care about the news and being on TV and being well do this shit because they enjoy it. willing to put my face out there. I understand that perspective as well. I want to be a voice for the people that

777
02:44:37,000 --> 02:44:42,000
Speaker 2: So that's why I host spaces like this, to give everyone a chance.

778
02:44:44,000 --> 02:44:52,000
Speaker 1: everyone a speaker tonight that has requested to speak. These guys have like 50 followers, never fucking heard of them, but they have solid points.

779
02:44:53,000 --> 02:44:55,000
Speaker 2: with the population.

780
02:44:56,000 --> 02:45:04,000
Speaker 1: We have WDJ40 requesting to be a speaker - I heard WD.

781
02:45:04,000 --> 02:45:11,000
Speaker 10: - Hello, Bestie. So anyways, I wanted to circle around who what FDM was saying,

782
02:45:11,000 --> 02:45:12,000
Speaker 3: about server operations.

783
02:45:14,000 --> 02:46:25,000
Speaker 10: happen to work in the telecom industry, I know how much cost to operate and maintain, especially on the commercial end of things. $20,000 a month? Oh, hell no, dude. talking about a large, like a just working for General Electric and I had to set up, um, they're setting up a new building at the, uh, plant where they made. and the The server itself costs about $2,000, $3,000 in man hours running the cable, getting the servers down and in. building wide server. This is not something that is already you just buy the domain for. That's costing, you know, five grand set up max with $100 operational costs, not getting into, you know, things going south. do you manage to spend $20,000 a month? about the server itself. Sure. Servers can be cheap, but I'm not. We're talking about KYC

784
02:46:27,000 --> 02:46:32,000
Speaker 1: about server cost okay so KYC

785
02:46:32,000 --> 02:46:55,000
Speaker 10: - Yeah, you're handling people's private information. It's gotta be secure. I'm talking about the software, you know. - Okay, so a software package. - Well, probably, I don't know what he's using. be using an API with a service. I don't know. But I do know that that shit's not cheap. No,

786
02:46:56,000 --> 02:47:00,000
Speaker 1: It's certainly not expensive enough to justify the price

787
02:47:01,000 --> 02:47:08,000
Speaker 10: to here's the thing though does he have to justify it it's four dollars and fifty cents a month and and

788
02:47:08,000 --> 02:47:48,000
Speaker 1: Why does he have to justify it? I don't understand this. That's because he's not a bank. He's claiming the lost revenue in the counterclaim, and the lost revenue would presumably be directly tied to the cost of how much it's costing him to run everything. Oh, so we're not talking about in general. We're talking about the specifics of the filing. Okay. Like how I just said, but in general too, because he's talking about how he needs money to maintain an operation like this one. The catalog doesn't have any services they offer to provide for money that they seem to manage.

789
02:47:48,000 --> 02:47:50,000
Speaker 4: not handle anything.

790
02:47:50,000 --> 02:47:58,000
Speaker 10: Gatalog is a freaking web page with links to Odyssey Odyssey handles everything, but you call them up

791
02:47:58,000 --> 02:49:06,000
Speaker 4: This is too beta testing. Why were you saying that they were a money for-profit agency if they literally I don't know how to handle anything. That's what was kind of driving me crazy. You're walking that back too. You're saying that they were a for-profit agency. They don't make any money. I can go right now and download any of the files that they have posted on Odyssey for free. So where are they making money? My opinion is that those three businesses are co-mingled. What? - Can I talk about this for a second and explain what I think FDM arms is trying to say? identify with his position, but to explain what the actual claims in the case are. Not that I'm a lawyer and nothing I say today is legal advice, but let me just explain So what DIFCAD is alleging is that, and what I'm saying is that is trying to say when he says commingled, which is kind of a bad term to describe it, is that the Gatalog and its associated business ventures and individuals are engaged

792
02:49:09,000 --> 02:49:10,000
Speaker 1: that we're going to have

793
02:49:13,000 --> 02:49:21,000
Speaker 4: selling parts kits from intellectual property. is generated in the deterrence in an expensed room.

794
02:49:22,000 --> 02:49:23,000
Speaker 8: on Odyssey.

795
02:49:24,000 --> 02:50:03,000
Speaker 4: That is what they're trying to allege. enterprise and what he says It's commingled, right? Legally speaking, they're all linked together by this idea be working together in order to achieve a common goal, which is to make money. And I is that they're distributing money to people like Arizona or any of the other people that moderate at the catalog for reasons and that they're paid to provide a service of some kind.

796
02:50:05,000 --> 02:50:11,000
Speaker 10: page itself which directly goes over what you just said.

797
02:50:13,000 --> 02:50:14,000
Speaker 3: and the core of the.

798
02:50:16,000 --> 02:50:24,000
Speaker 4: - My mic is real fucked up. Yeah, we're getting like every other word. Can you hear me a bit better now?

799
02:50:26,000 --> 02:50:28,000
Speaker 6: All right, hold on, let me turn this down a bit.

800
02:50:29,000 --> 02:50:48,000
Speaker 1: Step away from the printer. There's a lot of people that want to speak here. And I'm sorry, guys, that this is really hard to moderate. Can we get a word from Rev? He's had his hand up for a long time and then we'll hear from Jenny. Yeah, go for it. Yeah, thanks, Peter.

801
02:50:48,000 --> 02:51:02,000
Speaker 5: a really interesting space. world. I'm a builder. - So, the first comment, but I don't think

802
02:51:02,000 --> 02:51:05,000
Speaker 1: I don't know, close to 60 years in the IT community.

803
02:51:05,000 --> 02:51:22,000
Speaker 5: so the first thing is if you want to remain anonymous you have a server in Iran what the fuck over thank you for your service by the way worries, man. Well, that's part of the

804
02:51:23,000 --> 02:51:30,000
Speaker 4: I used to launch ballistic missiles anyway. Go ahead and drop that casually.

805
02:51:31,000 --> 02:51:39,000
Speaker 1: Yeah. Unfathomably based. They only weigh 30 tons apiece. Unfathomably based. I'm very sorry the U.S. government screwed you over.

806
02:51:40,000 --> 02:51:43,000
Speaker 5: Yeah.

807
02:51:44,000 --> 02:51:45,000
Speaker 4: - Anyway, so if you wanna remain anonymous,

808
02:51:46,000 --> 02:52:07,000
Speaker 5: a server planted someplace. Iran? What the F? - Why the kingdom of Tonga? I'm serious. Now, I do have a rack and a data a complete rack with a 10 gig connection. The rack cost me about a thousand,

809
02:52:10,000 --> 02:52:17,000
Speaker 4: that sit in the rack are one time expense. I probably have close to 30 grand in the servers.

810
02:52:20,000 --> 02:52:23,000
Speaker 10: I had a curiosity.

811
02:52:23,000 --> 02:52:45,000
Speaker 4: the servers for oh I'm really not willing to talk about that and the egg vague terms is it a lot of vital transfers with a high user traffic oh yes okay file transfers can be in that care of

812
02:52:46,000 --> 02:52:51,000
Speaker 5: Holy shit.

813
02:52:52,000 --> 02:52:55,000
Speaker 10: a month. Well, you're

814
02:52:56,000 --> 02:53:11,000
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's a 10 gig connection that sets the expensive part, but no, we'll move. oh what do we have for storage I'd think it's close a petabyte of storage in the rack. Jeez.

815
02:53:13,000 --> 02:53:16,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, we move a lot.

816
02:53:16,000 --> 02:53:39,000
Speaker 5: of data. Let's just leave it at that. There's a group of us that access those servers. But anyway, that being that grand a month, in my coding career, I wrote point of sale systems and that sort of. you guys are calling know your user or know your client or whatever the hell. You

817
02:53:40,000 --> 02:53:48,000
Speaker 4: those that's a one time, maybe with a service contract or a support contract, that doesn't justify 20 grand a month.

818
02:53:48,000 --> 02:53:57,000
Speaker 5: Um, now, you know, okay, so whatever. Um, I really want to thank you for turning me on.

819
02:53:58,000 --> 02:54:03,000
Speaker 1: Odyssey. Thank you, P80. Right on, man. Yeah, that's...

820
02:54:03,000 --> 02:54:10,000
Speaker 5: I had no idea. wanting to build a 308 for a long time on AR-10 and

821
02:54:10,000 --> 02:54:21,000
Speaker 1: I guess we're going to do that. I believe Hoffman Tactical has an AR-10 lower.

822
02:54:22,000 --> 02:54:24,000
Speaker 4: now regarding the

823
02:54:25,000 --> 02:54:33,000
Speaker 5: Um, You know, been over the decades probably hundreds of thousands

824
02:54:35,000 --> 02:54:37,000
Speaker 1: to Linux. None of them

825
02:54:38,000 --> 02:54:42,000
Speaker 4: I am not aware of a single individual that got a single

826
02:54:42,000 --> 02:55:33,000
Speaker 5: penny out of it for writing that code and maintaining that code for, you know, what is, you know, decades and decades. That to me is software. STL files are The G-code contained inside them, that kind of looks like code to me. You know, maybe I'm fucking stupid. but code is code. And my humble opinion is the guys that create that code, they're doing it because it's a love, it's a passion, and they want to promote a particular industry or mindset or social culture or whatever the app. They're doing it. They're the love. Yeah. And, of doing it. And God knows I wrote tens of

827
02:55:34,000 --> 02:55:44,000
Speaker 4: thousands of lines of code for the love of doing it. Yeah, and some of that code is out there in the public to me. But so being paid

828
02:55:45,000 --> 02:55:58,000
Speaker 5: code. not if you represent it as open source, Sorry Now if you say hey I got

829
02:55:58,000 --> 02:55:59,000
Speaker 4: really cool code that'll print

830
02:55:59,000 --> 02:56:21,000
Speaker 5: with this, you know, and you want to sell that, fine. I don't have a problem with that either. But if you represent it is as open source, then guess what? It's open source, you know, common, uh, uh, uh, commons license. Um, But thanks for this Facebook.

831
02:56:25,000 --> 02:56:35,000
Speaker 4: - I'd just like to add, this dude came in and single-handedly evaporated every single one of FDM's arguments. You are the best man. Keep launching missiles. - Rev Pup, you're the man brother. Thank you so much.

832
02:56:35,000 --> 02:56:39,000
Speaker 1: for chiming in. Jenny DeHuman? You are a real one, but I do

833
02:56:40,000 --> 02:56:44,000
Speaker 10: fuck you to any rack cables that you've

834
02:56:50,000 --> 02:56:54,000
Speaker 1: I'm going to have to cut you off there, WD.

835
02:56:55,000 --> 02:57:00,000
Speaker 5: paid jobs in the past was running cable through 40-story

836
02:57:00,000 --> 02:57:01,000
Speaker 9: office buildings in L.

837
02:57:02,000 --> 02:57:28,000
Speaker 1: Oh god We salute you Let's try to stay on topic here guys Come on, it's fucking three hours We've been here Keep it going guys We've got Plastic Gas, Jenny DeHuman DogeNado is back as a speaker wants to chime in here. Is your chance?

838
02:57:31,000 --> 02:57:51,000
Speaker 10: Good points from Rev Pop. I just would like to clarify. Creative Commons is technically a copy left and not open source. but that's by technicality because Creative Commons does not have any. on sharing the source. - Correct.

839
02:57:52,000 --> 02:57:53,000
Speaker 3: Thank you.

840
02:57:54,000 --> 02:57:59,000
Speaker 2: - Isn't there an attribution clause that you can add to the Creative Commons license though?

841
02:58:00,000 --> 02:58:03,000
Speaker 4: I believe that's standard in the Creative Commons life.

842
02:58:04,000 --> 02:58:15,000
Speaker 1: We can replicate this and transmit it, but you have to give acknowledgement to whoever created it.

843
02:58:16,000 --> 02:58:22,000
Speaker 4: If you dig down into your Windows About, you'll find a whole bunch of stuff that

844
02:58:23,000 --> 02:58:26,000
Speaker 1: under creative commons.

845
02:58:29,000 --> 02:58:30,000
Speaker 2: - Yeah.

846
02:58:31,000 --> 02:58:51,000
Speaker 1: Marcus, Plastic Gats, Jenny? Shit. I really don't have much to add except for what I was saying before. I have particularly with the Iran thing is he's taken people's files without their consent and hosting them internationally, which really

847
02:58:52,000 --> 02:58:54,000
Speaker 9: Keep on buying, you don't want to be in that position.

848
02:58:57,000 --> 02:59:15,000
Speaker 1: I just think he's a hazard. That's me. Yeah, no, a lot of us have been voicing that same sentiment. And FDM seems to be the only one here that's defending it. It'd be less of an issue if it wasn't an explicit enemy of the United States who you legally can't.

849
02:59:15,000 --> 02:59:20,000
Speaker 10: share anything like this with. If it was something like South Palm and Principe, no one would care.

850
02:59:21,000 --> 02:59:34,000
Speaker 1: So personally, I use DefCAD a lot. I also use Odyssey and I'll tell you I use DefCAD and I'm a little scared - Bro. - Well,

851
02:59:35,000 --> 02:59:47,000
Speaker 10: cooperates with law enforcement, no questions asked. I want to repeat that. They don't ask questions. Law enforcement, ask them for something.

852
02:59:49,000 --> 03:00:01,000
Speaker 1: information, they give it. They don't ask for, hey, guys, do you have a warrant? No, they don't. But you know who does? Hard-headed son of a bitch you hate.

853
03:00:01,000 --> 03:00:04,000
Speaker 9: Dude, are you fucking serious?

854
03:00:04,000 --> 03:00:35,000
Speaker 1: You can use the library desktop application and no no no no no no no no no no no Odyssey hosts all that shit a physical server. Library and Odyssey, they're about to split. And Odyssey, yeah. I'm getting ahead of myself. Say what? a copy to host it from their website, but you can use the blockchain to not use the website. So - The library is basically

855
03:00:35,000 --> 03:00:40,000
Speaker 3: Like, I'm trying to find the words for it. - Is my mic working?

856
03:00:41,000 --> 03:00:42,000
Speaker 2: - Yes.

857
03:00:43,000 --> 03:00:52,000
Speaker 1: - No, I was fiddling with it, but I'll let you guys continue your thoughts. - Library is like a- - I can't tell who's speaking. Who's the idiot who thinks that it's Odyssey is everywhere.

858
03:00:53,000 --> 03:01:17,000
Speaker 10: Is this FDM? FDM, yeah. So, of course. You explain to me. It's a blockchain. You can download it from the library desktop application. It doesn't go through Odyssey to do that. Okay, okay, hold on. You can build up to any application. want. OK, explain that you can use toward what data, what data do that with Def Cab because they do not let you use a VPN and they require your personal information.

859
03:01:18,000 --> 03:01:34,000
Speaker 3: They're in the United States so they can be subpoenaed. However, with library, you can't just pull it off the block. You could use a VPN. You don't have to log into an account. You don't have to give all your information to them. So what the fuck are you on about, dude? Johnny, what does...

860
03:01:35,000 --> 03:01:38,000
Speaker 10: blockchain store? What information is stored on the blockchain?

861
03:01:39,000 --> 03:01:42,000
Speaker 4: It stores a link to another

862
03:01:42,000 --> 03:01:51,000
Speaker 10: where you can get the data. It's stored on the blockchain. Okay, and where is the data stored? On the blockchain as well. No, no, no, no. Do you know how library works?

863
03:01:51,000 --> 03:01:52,000
Speaker 2: - If you know how it works, you can look at it.

864
03:01:53,000 --> 03:02:07,000
Speaker 1: Video data. The video data or the text data. - Where is that data stored? That Odyssey store? Where, where's it coming from? - They make a copy so that they can serve it

865
03:02:07,000 --> 03:02:09,000
Speaker 2: - There's servers over 18 years.

866
03:02:09,000 --> 03:02:29,000
Speaker 10: Exactly. Where is the Copy dude. It's there. There is no video like let's say I'm watching Alex Jones that video is not stored on the blockchain The address to the video is stored on the blockchain. Jesus Christ, the address is stored on the blockchain. These are not NFTs.

867
03:02:30,000 --> 03:02:33,000
Speaker 4: - How can you store an entire

868
03:02:33,000 --> 03:02:37,000
Speaker 10: on the library blockchain. - 'Cause they break it down into chunks

869
03:02:38,000 --> 03:02:52,000
Speaker 2: And then those chunks are stares pull them down. That's the link is stored. Oh my God. It's a link to the chunks on the blockchain. Okay. Well, let's get past that. We're not going to agree there.

870
03:02:52,000 --> 03:03:12,000
Speaker 10: - You're not gonna get past it. You're objectively wrong, you fucking idiot. - Oh, oh, oh. You're telling me that Odyssey does not have physical servers where they host their data. They host a copy. They copy it from the board. Correct. So they can serve it over HTTP. Correct. He's saying you don't have to do that.

871
03:03:12,000 --> 03:03:15,000
Speaker 4: Download it from there FDM. Yeah, everyone does.

872
03:03:16,000 --> 03:03:23,000
Speaker 2: But they don't have to. A normal recon. Yeah, if you're concerned with that, and you can also do it without logging in, without your personal information, and

873
03:03:23,000 --> 03:03:45,000
Speaker 4: Again, all things that you can't do with Defcat. And once again. It's way more easier for Defcat to get subpoenaed because they have all that information centralized, and it's the firearms repository, so it's the first place somebody's going to hit. Odyssey doesn't ask questions, baby. They just give up the information. That's just one place where the content's hosted, you fucking know. Yeah, okay, Benny.

874
03:03:47,000 --> 03:04:21,000
Speaker 10: it's cloned. They have all that information in two different still go to the library protocol and download it with the library application for now and never give it for now until they until they switched We bro. Where are you? Where you been? We can always choose. Aren't you a developer? Aren't you this fucking smart? You know, computer scientist. What's going on? Protocol is going to be running there the whole time. They know the library. They can't just delete it. It's still watching. They're switching. Can you delete the Bitcoin?

875
03:04:22,000 --> 03:04:26,000
Speaker 1: No, the library will always be there. They're going to be separate.

876
03:04:26,000 --> 03:05:15,000
Speaker 10: so then there's no problem because the blocks are on there they're not on odyssey odyssey has already admitted that data they're they're running into a problem with switching over to are we because and the dude that has his hand up your ass puppeting you has been sued before and has given out that information and repeatedly doxes people so if we're going to be drawing those comparisons why don't - How would you propose a file without doxing people? How was he? supposed to make a counterclaim without doxing them. How can you do that? How can

877
03:05:16,000 --> 03:05:21,000
Speaker 4: Because he made up stupid bullshit about everybody that was proven in his own state.

878
03:05:21,000 --> 03:05:36,000
Speaker 10: He said that I was DDoSing him and then his evidence was me talking about something completely different. The guy's an idiot. You have to give someone's address claim. I don't know.

879
03:05:36,000 --> 03:05:59,000
Speaker 3: system to dox he's also done it where he's dox freeman without the legal system he does it all different sorts of ways and he probably threw freeman to the wolves i don't trust that guy here we don't trust odyssey and that's fine but the problem is it's the blockchain you could still use the library protocol so everything you're criticizing doesn't make any sense it is where

880
03:05:59,000 --> 03:06:35,000
Speaker 10: It is worth pointing out respectfully, if you observe the docs that Cody makes of the the catalog leadership in the paper that we've been referencing. It is worth pointing out that at no point in time does he reference either. Oswald's dox of Ivan or the arrest of Freeman as a means of doxing him. The document itself merely contains apparently original information regarding identifying the personal identity. of the devs in question, which suggests

881
03:06:35,000 --> 03:06:38,000
Speaker 3: certainly that that could be the source of the information.

882
03:06:39,000 --> 03:06:41,000
Speaker 10: was used to dox both of them.

883
03:06:42,000 --> 03:06:46,000
Speaker 1: PIs to fuck with people. I agree with you on...

884
03:06:46,000 --> 03:06:48,000
Speaker 10: whole library thing.

885
03:06:48,000 --> 03:06:54,000
Speaker 1: I've been oh yeah, they only took pulling your teeth and no no no no you didn't let me finish

886
03:06:55,000 --> 03:07:26,000
Speaker 10: about people using library. people to start moving from Odyssey to library before they switch to our weave, which you should look up. I don't care, dude. Shut up. I don't care. That that's the problem with your whole your whole crew man argument the moment you start. You were just claiming that the whole thing has to operate through Odyssey and now you're saying that, oh, I was telling people that you can get it on Library as well. Like, which one is it? You can't.

887
03:07:26,000 --> 03:07:28,000
Speaker 2: - Dude, you've lost

888
03:07:28,000 --> 03:07:40,000
Speaker 4: Every single claim, every single claim you've made on this space tonight, you have walked back. Yes, you have. I'm not walking anything back. I'm telling you. You just walked back the library claim, dude.

889
03:07:40,000 --> 03:07:50,000
Speaker 10: What are you talking about? Holy shit, Johnny. It was so fast because I slapped you around. You said that it was only on Odyssey and now you're saying, well,

890
03:07:50,000 --> 03:07:53,000
Speaker 9: I know it's on library and I tell people that they can

891
03:07:53,000 --> 03:07:58,000
Speaker 1: use library as an alternative. - No, I said to start using library as-- - Which one is it?

892
03:07:58,000 --> 03:08:06,000
Speaker 10: an alternative because they are switching to our weave. It doesn't fucking matter. Blockchain is still there.

893
03:08:06,000 --> 03:08:10,000
Speaker 1: They will lose the data. They will lose a lot of data.

894
03:08:11,000 --> 03:08:26,000
Speaker 10: seeding, that data will be lost. The blockchain is not an idiot. No, it's a link to the torrent. link to the blobs. It's a connection to the blobs. There isn't

895
03:08:27,000 --> 03:08:35,000
Speaker 4: out there that stores little... Do you understand how torrenting works with software and files?

896
03:08:35,000 --> 03:08:37,000
Speaker 10: Oh my God.

897
03:08:37,000 --> 03:08:48,000
Speaker 2: - Thank you, you don't. - Here's the thing, you've just moved on beyond the whole thing of game docs from Odyssey to now that the files don't exist anymore. - Don't let me interrupt me, you fucking retard.

898
03:08:49,000 --> 03:08:50,000
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh.

899
03:08:51,000 --> 03:08:54,000
Speaker 10: - Yes, bro. slinging insults.

900
03:08:54,000 --> 03:09:02,000
Speaker 4: Oh, here we go. Dude, you were insulting people all day straight. That's why we're here. Who's got the literal kid in the background?

901
03:09:02,000 --> 03:09:40,000
Speaker 1: - I'm muting everybody right now. including everybody, this is getting out of hand. Like I said, we need to be respectful. Even if you're not agreeing with each other, we got to let people talk even if they're making some dumb ass points. Well... It's hard when you're having a discussion so heated back and forth. Let's let's cool it down a bit right now. QTang, what do you have to say, brother? Let's calm the tension here. Hey, T-80 Ralph, can - Hell yeah, what's up?

902
03:09:40,000 --> 03:09:44,000
Speaker 10: - I'm clear. - Wow, one earbud in.

903
03:09:44,000 --> 03:09:57,000
Speaker 8: Long time listener, first time caller. I'm a little tarted and I've been listening to most of these last few hours. So I'd like to thank Ralph and everybody that spoke and on my screen. All I can see is dark spook something.

904
03:09:58,000 --> 03:10:05,000
Speaker 4: Spooky hours. Hey, babe. I appreciate you guys. And I hate Twitter. No, I'm going to take

905
03:10:07,000 --> 03:10:14,000
Speaker 5: bring this conversation back on course or further derail it. Thank you. Um, I forget who was speaking. Um,

906
03:10:15,000 --> 03:10:30,000
Speaker 8: I don't understand half of what's being said, right? Blockchain and all that, right? I'm just an average idiot out here printing stuff. Well, I'm a little more than that. I've had some direct contact or interaction with Cody as well as Rob Pincus, another lightning rod for the community. Someone made a point...

907
03:10:30,000 --> 03:10:36,000
Speaker 7: Maybe a half an hour ago, maybe an hour ago, I lost track in this three hours of thoroughly

908
03:10:36,000 --> 03:10:40,000
Speaker 3: I don't know if it's a real sense.

909
03:10:40,000 --> 03:10:48,000
Speaker 7: that Cody is willing to be out there and put his legal name and everything he is as a lightning rod and that's all his power. So if you don't

910
03:10:48,000 --> 03:10:51,000
Speaker 8: his power. Someone else

911
03:10:51,000 --> 03:11:00,000
Speaker 7: has to be willing to be that. Not that I want to be and not that you got to be right, but we can get upset about everything that's going on. I know a lot of people are upset.

912
03:11:00,000 --> 03:11:31,000
Speaker 8: It's an emotional topic for a lot of people. A lot of people have a lot of beliefs of different ideologies right from where we're approaching this uh this hobby or what i consider the the disbursement of the means to uh to protect ourselves which uh all humans are entitled to um yeah that's all i had to say someone mentioned that and that's important right you can hate what he is and he gets all the publicity and whatever he's doing but he's gonna be there until someone else is and be the guy.

913
03:11:32,000 --> 03:11:33,000
Speaker 4: or queen.

914
03:11:35,000 --> 03:11:37,000
Speaker 1: Supreme Leader. Thank you for being so included.

915
03:11:38,000 --> 03:12:05,000
Speaker 7: of a pizza. That's all I got, man. That's no Ralph. And you and I have known each other for more than a couple of years. I'm going to say the thing about Rob Pincus. You know, I've spent some time with him. That's not another thing. I'm like, well, he's willing to, he's willing to sit down with some dude from fights and try to build a gun and put his face and his name and, you know, his, you know, his everything out there. I'm not the guy that's willing to do it. But again, man, yeah, I'm not saying I

916
03:12:06,000 --> 03:12:32,000
Speaker 3: respect anything about Cody or Def Cat or anything else, but he gonna be there until someone else is willing to be that guy on the mountain holding the sword to take the fame as well as the abuse from the government and from anyone else. I mean, two things on that one. Number one, you raise a perfectly valid point with regards to Cody in question.

917
03:12:33,000 --> 03:12:36,000
Speaker 1: Second thing, you know, Rob Pincus, Doge, any chance you can

918
03:12:37,000 --> 03:12:44,000
Speaker 10: in here, we could probably hear more about that. But back on... Back on Cody.

919
03:12:44,000 --> 03:12:48,000
Speaker 2: The one problem that I think...

920
03:12:49,000 --> 03:13:12,000
Speaker 1: potential approach is that in order for an individual to become the media personality and the so-called face of gun cad, the media has to go out of their way to approach them. It's been established based on what we've seen previously with the fact Everyone goes to Cody. They don't reach out to any of the pseudonymous designers. They don't even reach out to any of the designers whose identities are actually...

921
03:13:13,000 --> 03:13:40,000
Speaker 10: and interview them directly and do whatever. They specifically go for Cody because due to his past with the sex crimes, it's a form of well poisoning. None of these articles have ever been written with pure, unfettered good faith towards the greater gun cad community. Their intent is to discourage the reader from UNCAD in a positive light. again, the Australian Broadcasting Corporation,

922
03:13:40,000 --> 03:13:49,000
Speaker 1: a few hours ago would be a perfect example of that. And I broke that down on 3D Gun Builder if anyone wants to go take a look. The entire article was based

923
03:13:49,000 --> 03:14:03,000
Speaker 10: using Cody and his sex crimes to essentially defame or discredit the greater gun cad movement. And that's the reason why I don't think that we can have someone

924
03:14:03,000 --> 03:14:21,000
Speaker 1: Because yeah, we can step in. I'll gladly step in. I'll gladly go and talk to the media. But if no media sends me an email and says, hey, we want to talk with you about the article and whatnot, what's the point of me putting myself out there? I'm basically doing nothing to benefit it. keep going to Cody

925
03:14:22,000 --> 03:14:23,000
Speaker 10: Okay.

926
03:14:28,000 --> 03:14:31,000
Speaker 4: I try to pretend like I do a podcast here or two.

927
03:14:32,000 --> 03:14:35,000
Speaker 7: I meant to say I will not be taking any questions

928
03:14:37,000 --> 03:14:44,000
Speaker 8: I'll give you something and as somebody who, what, I'm an old man now but didn't always know how to,

929
03:14:44,000 --> 03:14:48,000
Speaker 7: market things you say they don't reach out to you

930
03:14:48,000 --> 03:14:50,000
Speaker 8: I'm gonna give you two pieces, right?

931
03:14:54,000 --> 03:14:59,000
Speaker 10: how many emails or phone calls that guy that did the pieces of Rob Pinkett.

932
03:15:00,000 --> 03:15:09,000
Speaker 7: He is on Instagram and Twitter. I follow him now. How many times, if you're willing to be that guy, have you reached out and said, hey, I'd like to talk to you about what's

933
03:15:09,000 --> 03:15:12,000
Speaker 4: on the 3D printed community, right?

934
03:15:15,000 --> 03:15:17,000
Speaker 7: we can clean past.

935
03:15:17,000 --> 03:15:32,000
Speaker 8: They dig up and they're not going to find, like me, they're not going to find my disorderly conduct stumbling from an incident involving firearms. I'm 45 now, but am I willing to go on TV and explore? Right now that it really has some

936
03:15:34,000 --> 03:15:35,000
Speaker 7: I'll call them.

937
03:15:35,000 --> 03:15:37,000
Speaker 3: Thank you.

938
03:15:39,000 --> 03:15:41,000
Speaker 4: - We lost him. - Wait a second.

939
03:15:41,000 --> 03:15:59,000
Speaker 2: Bye. - Yeah, the naughty world game got cut off. - Yeah, we can hear you. - Okay, no, just a quick rebuttal to that. - Maybe I'm not here. - The quickest way to rebuttal that, and it's very fast, would you be willing to go onto any kind of media

940
03:16:00,000 --> 03:16:05,000
Speaker 3: Yankee Google.

941
03:16:07,000 --> 03:16:12,000
Speaker 9: What about this automatic weapon auto searing? I would you be willing? Yeah. Okay.

942
03:16:13,000 --> 03:16:16,000
Speaker 6: How would you go about saying, I believe

943
03:16:16,000 --> 03:16:21,000
Speaker 9: that there are members being able to print

944
03:16:22,000 --> 03:16:23,000
Speaker 6: conversion device.

945
03:16:25,000 --> 03:16:27,000
Speaker 1: That's a great question.

946
03:16:27,000 --> 03:16:35,000
Speaker 4: I mean... - That wasn't what I wanted to talk about. Like I have something specifically that I want to talk about, but like the Yankee Boogle,

947
03:16:36,000 --> 03:16:44,000
Speaker 3: Machine gun conversion devices fall within the moment, like I think.

948
03:16:45,000 --> 03:16:51,000
Speaker 4: everybody should be able to own one. I think it's ridiculous that we can't. We

949
03:16:53,000 --> 03:16:55,000
Speaker 5: We all agree here, but...

950
03:16:57,000 --> 03:16:59,000
Speaker 9: The F exists and your first question when they say

951
03:17:00,000 --> 03:17:02,000
Speaker 3: about machine gun conversion devices is you have to have

952
03:17:03,000 --> 03:17:04,000
Speaker 4: that says,

953
03:17:05,000 --> 03:17:07,000
Speaker 9: perfectly okay for criminals

954
03:17:08,000 --> 03:17:11,000
Speaker 10: to harm people. You have to defend that statement because that's what they're going to ask you.

955
03:17:12,000 --> 03:17:17,000
Speaker 7: - I don't know if you expect any of these autistic people to do that.

956
03:17:18,000 --> 03:17:30,000
Speaker 4: I'm not going to engage with that comment. I just think law-abiding citizens, I think every American should be gun conversion device like what more is there to say

957
03:17:30,000 --> 03:17:32,000
Speaker 3: - I mean, that's fine and all.

958
03:17:33,000 --> 03:17:51,000
Speaker 1: May I try? Go ahead. This is something that I actually kind of do. in politics, because I do have a history, unfortunately, so I don't think I'd ever be able to be a

959
03:17:51,000 --> 03:17:55,000
Speaker 4: anything I don't think I'd want to be either. But I have this

960
03:17:56,000 --> 03:18:11,000
Speaker 2: a lot of conservative people in particular, think they fight it harder than liberals do. So the one thing I always try to bring people is do you believe in the concept of freedom

961
03:18:13,000 --> 03:18:27,000
Speaker 10: a concept of security. If you believe in security, keep the things illegal. Because guess what? You have the police there to protect you. You don't need to worry your pretty little head about it. other man protect your life that's perfectly fine

962
03:18:27,000 --> 03:18:37,000
Speaker 2: to live that way, you are an American, you have that right to do that. Or do you, if you choose freedom, though, you have to freedom is not free. Freedom is an expensive,

963
03:18:37,000 --> 03:18:39,000
Speaker 10: painful, blood taking things

964
03:18:40,000 --> 03:18:47,000
Speaker 2: have to either decide to have or we decide to be in subjugation. Unfortunately, the

965
03:18:48,000 --> 03:18:53,000
Speaker 1: party has been overwhelmingly poisoned with that concept of security over freedom,

966
03:18:54,000 --> 03:18:55,000
Speaker 2: Reagan do to Bush

967
03:18:56,000 --> 03:19:02,000
Speaker 1: even Donald Trump. I don't know if anyone's a fan of him. I'm not because he put

968
03:19:02,000 --> 03:19:12,000
Speaker 10: over freedom. swallow the concept of oh these gang members are going to have these automatic guns well guess what

969
03:19:13,000 --> 03:19:18,000
Speaker 4: you can have that too. And then you can defend your own family. You can defend your own people. You

970
03:19:18,000 --> 03:19:20,000
Speaker 1: defend your own community. But if you sit there

971
03:19:21,000 --> 03:19:25,000
Speaker 2: we have to make them restricted so no one else can have them. Well, then guess what?

972
03:19:25,000 --> 03:19:28,000
Speaker 10: criminals don't care what the laws are because they're criminal

973
03:19:29,000 --> 03:19:46,000
Speaker 2: they do they break the laws they use the things that they're not allowed to use they do the change. Criminals will always exist. Just as there is the duality of man, there is going to be a dark side and there is no way to avoid it because that is the reality of the world.

974
03:19:46,000 --> 03:19:51,000
Speaker 4: We have put ourselves in this fallacy that we live in this bright shining utopia of

975
03:19:52,000 --> 03:20:02,000
Speaker 2: fucking peace, love and tranquility. You know, the whole liberal movement of, you know, inclusion, inclusion, inclusion. And you know what? That's fine. As an American, you have to, you know,

976
03:20:03,000 --> 03:20:13,000
Speaker 1: to live however you want. I understand what you're saying. But if you want to remain free, then you have to give up that aspect of security because you can't sit here and say freedom is

977
03:20:15,000 --> 03:20:25,000
Speaker 10: You're gonna go and arrest, you know, neo-Nazis or Black Panther members. You can't sit there and do that. You have to make the decision. Am I going to allow it to be free?

978
03:20:26,000 --> 03:20:27,000
Speaker 2: going to put restrictions on freedom

979
03:20:27,000 --> 03:20:29,000
Speaker 1: that end up leading to the loss

980
03:20:30,000 --> 03:20:33,000
Speaker 3: You can't legislate away bad behavior.

981
03:20:34,000 --> 03:20:35,000
Speaker 7: I did have a

982
03:20:39,000 --> 03:20:40,000
Speaker 4: of the space if you already

983
03:20:41,000 --> 03:20:45,000
Speaker 10: ready for it. Go for it. I had a thought on this whole thing.

984
03:20:45,000 --> 03:20:48,000
Speaker 1: I think Pew Tang left.

985
03:20:50,000 --> 03:20:52,000
Speaker 3: back to the topic of the space.

986
03:20:53,000 --> 03:21:26,000
Speaker 4: of FDM's position is he claims he's about FOSS. I personally don't care about that, but talking out of both sides of his mouth. On one hand, he wants vials to be for anyone to use. And then on the other hand, he's okay with Cody putting files behind a paywall. Yeah, you can say that like, oh, the paywall, like, you know, you're paying for it. But the problem is, You can't get the files unless you're paying for The files are out there, they're posted for free. And then he Cody is taking them and pretending that you need to get them from him.

987
03:21:26,000 --> 03:21:27,000
Speaker 8: and

988
03:21:28,000 --> 03:22:10,000
Speaker 4: he's looking at that like that's a problem. He claims that he's not for gun control, but you can't argue against gun control if you think it's okay for files, if you think it's okay to control the files. So, like, you can't claim that you're against gun control if you're like, oh, well, we've got to be able to control these files. So arguing that he's okay to rip the files that are online for free and make people pay to be able to download them is – Downloading them is not... opposing gun control. You can't say that you're for freedom

989
03:22:12,000 --> 03:22:17,000
Speaker 7: and say that it's okay to charge money for people to have access to download these

990
03:22:17,000 --> 03:22:45,000
Speaker 4: files. You can't say you want people to have access to things and then double back and say that it's okay that the file hosting service needs to know that you're US-based. The fact that like DevCat is like, oh, you can't use a VPN. We have to know who you are and you have to have an accountant and whatnot. That's ridiculous. You can't say that guns are for everyone they are outside of the United States. That is exactly what FDN

991
03:22:45,000 --> 03:22:46,000
Speaker 2: - So here's--

992
03:22:47,000 --> 03:22:48,000
Speaker 1: - Here's where I'm coming.

993
03:22:48,000 --> 03:22:52,000
Speaker 2: from man so let's say I know Johnny will

994
03:22:52,000 --> 03:22:54,000
Speaker 1: spaz out over this shit, but

995
03:22:54,000 --> 03:23:26,000
Speaker 10: Let's say Odyssey. Let's say if Odyssey gets shut down tomorrow. Okay. And and let's say catalog is wrong about itar and Odyssey is gone. And there's nowhere to download files from where you where Where's people going to go? They're going to go to an easy, readily available website like DefCAD. or you can just pop your information in and it's got a, you know, a great search system and it's all catalog, they're going to go there.

996
03:23:26,000 --> 03:23:31,000
Speaker 4: I feel that – There's never going to be a place where you can't download these files.

997
03:23:32,000 --> 03:23:35,000
Speaker 10: Well, I hope if that is a

998
03:23:35,000 --> 03:23:36,000
Speaker 1: are our key.

999
03:23:37,000 --> 03:24:02,000
Speaker 10: with their releases and uploading to in a torrent format, then there will always be torrents. But a lot of people, they don't want understand how to download a torrent. They don't understand, you know, how technology works. They just go to a website, they want something right in front of their face, they click the little button and download the little file and put it in the printer. They're not going to go through. You don't even have to.

1000
03:24:02,000 --> 03:25:16,000
Speaker 4: You, if Odyssey shuts down tomorrow, there will be another website where you can come and download files. Well, I, I, I, I kind of, I agree with you there a little bit, but so far nobody has done what Cody has done. I mean, if you, if it's so easy, if it's so easy and it's, it's legal, where are the other websites like Cody? You know, there's two of that. I'd like to talk about that. Because if they don't, they're going to get sued. No, you don't. - What Cody did created his own monopoly, right? And he established the precedent for letting those states sue you into the ground unless you do these things. until somebody's willing to do the legal work, to undo what he has done, only way that you're actually able to go forward with it. So if there's already would be

1001
03:25:17,000 --> 03:25:29,000
Speaker 2: There's already two people who've gotten around doing that. The Foscad repo was completely free, completely accessible to everyone and completely open source within a year of Cody initially being shut down and threatened.

1002
03:25:31,000 --> 03:25:40,000
Speaker 10: restored service on DefCAD. Additionally, the print2a repo is equally as accessible, if not more so than the

1003
03:25:41,000 --> 03:25:46,000
Speaker 1: you can download specific files on it, and it was made within the

1004
03:25:46,000 --> 03:26:09,000
Speaker 10: DEFCAD resumed operational service. So there are people who've already done it. lawsuits against them. No states have sued them. No one's interfered with their points of operation. They're still there. They're still actively operating. So I would again print 2a and the foscat repo well print 2a yeah print 2a isn't a

1005
03:26:09,000 --> 03:26:14,000
Speaker 4: - So I don't know much about I'm just going to put it

1006
03:26:15,000 --> 03:26:24,000
Speaker 10: But yeah, print print to a is baby. He always needs help to actually keep the stuff updated because he's one man. BLC is trying

1007
03:26:24,000 --> 03:26:45,000
Speaker 1: another repo up and running too. But apparently there are so many individuals designers nowadays literally like 1300 or something that they've come across on odyssey that figuring out a way to compile everything has proven to be a pain if i'm not mistaken unseen killer also hosts his own files is that correct

1008
03:26:46,000 --> 03:26:53,000
Speaker 3: I believe these files are for everyone to download. I mean, he obviously doesn't. Sit here and say that you have to have a U.S. base.

1009
03:26:54,000 --> 03:26:56,000
Speaker 8: to be able to download them.

1010
03:26:56,000 --> 03:26:58,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's my book.

1011
03:26:58,000 --> 03:27:19,000
Speaker 2: everything seems pretty U S focused where like, no, in England is, is printing a FGC nine at their basement because of Cody. I would have to disagree with that because I saw an article recently from a couple of weeks ago where someone in the UK had apparently done just that, or at least printed an FGC nine.

1012
03:27:21,000 --> 03:27:53,000
Speaker 10: they are but they're not getting it from cody because you have to be u.s based for to use any of cody's services that's a fair true but once again nobody has done what cody's done period nobody nobody's done it i mean like steal people's stuff and re-host it for no reason build a working catalog for the for the government with all the information in one place yeah i mean

1013
03:27:54,000 --> 03:27:56,000
Speaker 8: Because again, we just established print two ways

1014
03:27:58,000 --> 03:28:00,000
Speaker 1: He got his stuff together.

1015
03:28:02,000 --> 03:28:13,000
Speaker 10: Not of his own files. The print to a repo literally contained the FOSCAD repo. other gun cad file up to like 2022 if not later it was what about now

1016
03:28:16,000 --> 03:28:20,000
Speaker 3: print to a repo in a while. still stand that it lives

1017
03:28:22,000 --> 03:28:37,000
Speaker 10: same thing that Cody was doing at the exact same time Cody was doing it. and it offered the same interface. So there's not really a point - Well, he's the only one

1018
03:28:38,000 --> 03:29:21,000
Speaker 1: doing it. Can we hear from Shev? a while I have not heard him speak. It's really hard to try to get to everyone here when people keep speaking over heated debate. Everyone's got a lot of input and this is great information i'm glad we're recording this and it's going to be saved we can listen to it later want to give everyone a chance to speak here uh chev you're up next and then we've got decimal that's been requested for over an hour now so that's the mobile get to you in a second go ahead chef appreciate it can you be okay yes all right so first I want to address something earlier on

1019
03:29:22,000 --> 03:29:44,000
Speaker 10: is the only one going out and doing the work and getting the attention. best thing Cody could do for GunGad right now is just shut up. I think most people acknowledge that now. In terms of him being the only one having an available archive that's not catalog and Odyssey-based,

1020
03:29:46,000 --> 03:29:53,000
Speaker 3: it legally untenable to do that. I don't know. I'm honestly kind of confused

1021
03:29:53,000 --> 03:30:07,000
Speaker 2: a lot of the stuff recently has been almost like catalog and defcat like the only two options i mean i love the catalog folks but there's a bunch of other people out there doing stuff too

1022
03:30:08,000 --> 03:30:17,000
Speaker 1: short thing for now. - We're making Cody, this is what, this is in the first place. We can't fucking

1023
03:30:17,000 --> 03:30:32,000
Speaker 10: Cody literally for everything. So Cody made it illegal. Come on. What the hell? Cody's, it's not his fault that everything, you know, the hurricane wasn't Cody's fault. I'm sorry.

1024
03:30:33,000 --> 03:30:46,000
Speaker 1: Let's let the. You've been added as a speaker. You have the floor for however long until you make your point and somebody cuts you off

1025
03:30:47,000 --> 03:30:50,000
Speaker 2: I'm going to go ahead and let somebody else speak real quick.

1026
03:30:51,000 --> 03:30:56,000
Speaker 4: Right on. Putang, it looks like...

1027
03:30:57,000 --> 03:31:00,000
Speaker 1: Did you speak again, Pewtank? Did you have some rebuttal from the earlier

1028
03:31:01,000 --> 03:31:02,000
Speaker 3: And

1029
03:31:03,000 --> 03:31:05,000
Speaker 8: - I don't remember what it was.

1030
03:31:06,000 --> 03:31:08,000
Speaker 4: got screwed up for Liat.

1031
03:31:10,000 --> 03:31:26,000
Speaker 10: say something and my name and I hit the button to get back in and it was a little while later so now somebody decides to holler at me I'll respond but you just leave me in the background brother trust me I get it man I'm falling asleep here man it's been almost four hours you the man right uh Bryce

1032
03:31:30,000 --> 03:31:43,000
Speaker 8: Yeah, I just wanted to feel you guys a little history, kind of accused me of being a newcomer I started this shit in like 2011, and if you scroll way, way back

1033
03:31:46,000 --> 03:31:47,000
Speaker 10: as far back as 20.

1034
03:31:48,000 --> 03:31:51,000
Speaker 5: He kind of is.

1035
03:31:52,000 --> 03:31:53,000
Speaker 10: The reason for...

1036
03:31:53,000 --> 03:31:57,000
Speaker 8: and negative shit. In the beginning, there was

1037
03:31:59,000 --> 03:32:01,000
Speaker 9: the catalog and

1038
03:32:01,000 --> 03:32:17,000
Speaker 8: SAFCAT is the only thing, well, in the very early days, 2009, 2010, we were on Weponeer forums, and that became Weapons Guild. And there was five or six of us that were working on...

1039
03:32:18,000 --> 03:32:21,000
Speaker 3: FDM printing

1040
03:32:22,000 --> 03:32:32,000
Speaker 8: and we're working together on it and we were our thing is we wanted to keep it secret until it was perfected.

1041
03:32:33,000 --> 03:32:41,000
Speaker 9: Like, okay, it would be, I guess it'd be good to have a lawyer in on this.

1042
03:32:42,000 --> 03:32:52,000
Speaker 8: kitchen whore that took over everything. So, he started out with his own lower and you know the

1043
03:32:55,000 --> 03:33:02,000
Speaker 10: That's the one that got tested to like 400, 500 rounds before it broke, right?

1044
03:33:02,000 --> 03:33:11,000
Speaker 8: Yeah, so I just wanted to mention the early days, you know, before 3D Britain, the

1045
03:33:12,000 --> 03:33:23,000
Speaker 3: thing and we were, you know, it was on forums. It was old school shit. And it is worth pointing out that all the technical documentation

1046
03:33:23,000 --> 03:33:24,000
Speaker 1: including some

1047
03:33:26,000 --> 03:33:29,000
Speaker 2: stuff can still be found on

1048
03:33:30,000 --> 03:33:35,000
Speaker 10: which you can get for free if you've been a member and have posted a certain number of things on the site.

1049
03:33:36,000 --> 03:33:42,000
Speaker 8: Yeah, Weapons Guild is a great resource. - That's all I wanna say, guys.

1050
03:33:44,000 --> 03:33:49,000
Speaker 10: got in touch with Mark Serbo and that's how he brought the L12K prototype to shot that one year.

1051
03:33:50,000 --> 03:33:51,000
Speaker 2: So,

1052
03:33:53,000 --> 03:34:05,000
Speaker 1: I'm going to go ahead and remove you as a speaker. I believe Rev Pup has had his hand up for a while. If you still go ahead. Armed wanted to speak, but it looks like he left.

1053
03:34:06,000 --> 03:34:12,000
Speaker 2: man is Armjoy's alt on

1054
03:34:12,000 --> 03:34:40,000
Speaker 1: it's his wife's account not not so fallen has also requested to speak a couple times now uh so it's between decimal not so fallen and rev You guys are free to speak. - Yep, so I could you know one of the reasons I into 3D printing was... You know, some videos I watched

1055
03:34:41,000 --> 03:34:48,000
Speaker 5: And so I'll give him credit for that. YOU KNOW,

1056
03:34:48,000 --> 03:34:51,000
Speaker 1: I think eventually I would have gone, you know,

1057
03:34:51,000 --> 03:34:55,000
Speaker 5: - Can I print a and I think that's a good thing.

1058
03:34:57,000 --> 03:35:00,000
Speaker 1: Now, regarding, regarding digital shit,

1059
03:35:01,000 --> 03:35:06,000
Speaker 4: You know, I ran a VPN company, owned and ran a VPN company.

1060
03:35:08,000 --> 03:35:12,000
Speaker 1: And, you know, that was...

1061
03:35:17,000 --> 03:35:21,000
Speaker 4: You know, Tor was broke.

1062
03:35:23,000 --> 03:35:28,000
Speaker 5: had a... Now, it's been modded since then, but back

1063
03:35:29,000 --> 03:35:31,000
Speaker 6: Everybody thought Tor was

1064
03:35:31,000 --> 03:35:33,000
Speaker 5: and a

1065
03:35:34,000 --> 03:35:37,000
Speaker 6: It was the NSA that figured out by correlating

1066
03:35:41,000 --> 03:35:44,000
Speaker 5: to your entry into the tour network and exit out of

1067
03:35:45,000 --> 03:35:55,000
Speaker 1: They figured out and developed some software to locate where you were. by getting your IP address, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

1068
03:35:55,000 --> 03:35:58,000
Speaker 5: And from there, they can knock on your door.

1069
03:35:58,000 --> 03:36:01,000
Speaker 1: So today,

1070
03:36:03,000 --> 03:36:08,000
Speaker 5: by the Navy as a method of

1071
03:36:09,000 --> 03:36:19,000
Speaker 4: But anyway, VPNs... they can be secure.

1072
03:36:19,000 --> 03:36:43,000
Speaker 5: But a lot of the publicly available VPNs, they don't use heavy enough in Um... You know, your bank probably uses heavier and heavier encryption, which is not saying much. no I forgot where the fuck I was going with that god damn it um this

1073
03:36:43,000 --> 03:36:46,000
Speaker 4: to transport these files is obviously on a torrent network.

1074
03:36:47,000 --> 03:37:10,000
Speaker 5: because that is a true distributed network Whereas with any of these point-to-point communications with enough tech, you can find out who the guy is. And I've done that countless times to schmuck hackers that try and hack me. I've reversed them and then

1075
03:37:11,000 --> 03:39:19,000
Speaker 1: Go give them a taste of their own damn medicine. And even if they're doing it off of an iPhone. I recently fucked a guy down in Lagos, Nigeria. And once I traced him around Lagos after a while, I took control of his iPhone 14. Anyway. After I developed enough information, I just passed it off to my friends in the FBI. And that's useful because extradition treaty with Nigeria since 1937 anyway I'm a little disappointed. I thought you were going to drop a missile on his head or something. Yeah. He said he worked with the FBI. He lost me there. no click exploit on his phone. Um, as long as long as the short story is, um, I got him to access my web, my, a web server And by doing that, I got his IP address and the make the platform he was operating on and the browser he was using and the version of his iOS and the database. hadn't upgraded to the latest version of iOS, and then it was just a matter of going out that didn't require a click. It was based off an ill force, an ill-formed iMessage. So I sent the iMessage to him and then it got kernel access on his phone. And then I raped his attacks, telephone logs, and then turned on his GPS and uploaded a short little program that every, what was it, every minute or every two minutes, it gave me his GPS position. And then I just pulled that into Google Maps. And I traced him all over Lagos, Nigeria. I was really curious to find out whether he was part of a terrorist funding operation. But anyway, I amassed all that information and passed it off to my buddies.

1076
03:39:21,000 --> 03:39:33,000
Speaker 5: running the VPN company, the reason we never got any FISA requests or FISA warrants was because in our terms of service, a VPN company is

1077
03:39:33,000 --> 03:39:39,000
Speaker 1: has to give up with a piece of warrant, you have to give up the information. Now, the only thing we recorded was

1078
03:39:39,000 --> 03:39:58,000
Speaker 5: their email address and the password that we initially gave them, which you were allowed to change. And obviously you could use a, you know, you could go into Google, create an email address, get the config files downloaded to you and then never, you know, delete that email address.

1079
03:40:00,000 --> 03:40:38,000
Speaker 1: reason we never got a visa request is with a visa warrant you are required to give up any information that you have on an individual um so right in our terms of service i i wrote some verbiage that basically said you know unless it's an emergency because there are two types of visa requests uh if it if it if it isn't an emergency respond to you by the U.S. Postal Service. If it is an emergency, then, you know, we will respond on hard media, like a CD. But for that service, we charge $1.5.

1080
03:40:39,000 --> 03:40:44,000
Speaker 4: dollars an hour. Now, the reality, and we never got any because every

1081
03:40:45,000 --> 03:41:22,000
Speaker 5: have anybody that, I don't know, the government wanted to pay $1,000 an hour for us to create a CD and mail it to them. But VPNs, just because you're using them, and a lot of the public And to think that they don't correlate that to your account is just naive as you know. And the free VPNs out there, the reason that they're free is because, in fact, they do sell your information to data brokers. And that's why the VPN is free. You know, they got to cover their server costs.

1082
03:41:23,000 --> 03:41:33,000
Speaker 1: and all blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So free VPNs don't even bother. - You might as well. just be doing your guru.

1083
03:41:34,000 --> 03:41:37,000
Speaker 5: purchase, you know, and have everybody every data broker on the

1084
03:41:38,000 --> 03:41:52,000
Speaker 1: you are and you know how long your schlong is and what kind of cat food you buy. I mean, really. But the only way to securely transport these files, at least in my mind, is through a toilet.

1085
03:41:52,000 --> 03:42:07,000
Speaker 5: and that's because it's a distributive. The guy was calling it a blockchain horribly inaccurate. As far as I know, there are no data repositories that

1086
03:42:07,000 --> 03:42:29,000
Speaker 1: the 3D 2A community that are stored on any blockchain anywhere, because the other speaker was right. The amount of information is just. on a blockchain currently. Thank you for clarifying that. I feel like this is great information. Thank you so much, RevPup.

1087
03:42:30,000 --> 03:42:44,000
Speaker 5: But, you know, somebody creating a website that had the listing for a torrent for a particular, you know, project, so to speak, I don't. how you know

1088
03:42:46,000 --> 03:44:34,000
Speaker 4: Even if they came into the war and said, we want to know everything. What are you going to give them? The torrent? Okay, here's the torrent. Where is it stored? Oh, I don't know. Everywhere on the freaking planet. Because you're going to have torrents, guys that have chunks of that torrent, and they're going to be in every foreign country and probably in countries where we've got all sorts of, you shan't ever do business with them. yeah they're gonna find you he is a hundred percent correct right so the thing to remember with torrents is that like yes it is distributed in this that the organization of the file, as it were, you know, like the tracker can be decentralized or it can be, you know, whatever. But there is still a like PC to PC connection. And so, you know, you would have to encapsulate that or offload your risk by

1089
03:44:35,000 --> 03:44:46,000
Speaker 2: I'm just going to say paying in cryptocurrency to a like seed box host provider with a fucking throwaway email address, yada, yada, yada.

1090
03:44:46,000 --> 03:45:23,000
Speaker 4: And then hopefully you've got to save VPN to VPN into your into your seed box, blah, blah, blah. You know, to even think about being secure on torrents. So I mentioned torrents before. I don't know if that's how we got on the subject, like two hours back or whatever. there are probably more secure distributed file systems. I think IP2, no, sorry. - IPFS. - IPFS, and there's something with a two in it that may be related, but yeah. I don't know if we wanna get like that deep into the weeds about what's the best system to use in that regard. But like the point has been made by other people as well

1091
03:45:24,000 --> 03:45:32,000
Speaker 2: If come tomorrow, whatever our given current preferred location to download files for free,

1092
03:45:33,000 --> 03:45:58,000
Speaker 4: It's just like the old quote, the internet rats around censorship, right? It perceives it as damage. So people will just spin up something else, whether it's on their own PC, whether it's on hosting, whether it's distributed or whether they're stupid and they lead authorities right to their own personal IP address. going to happen one way or the other. That's the human aspect of it for better or for worse.

1093
03:46:00,000 --> 03:46:01,000
Speaker 5: solutions.

1094
03:46:03,000 --> 03:46:04,000
Speaker 1: You run a couple of bare bones

1095
03:46:05,000 --> 03:46:07,000
Speaker 5: VPS's in foreign

1096
03:46:08,000 --> 03:46:29,000
Speaker 1: You turn those into, you plant your files on it, and then you create a torrent to say, I don't know, five or six of these servers, and now you can torrent it everywhere you want. The only thing that they can trace back to is, you know, if I were going to make a suggestion on a country, I would probably...

1097
03:46:29,000 --> 03:46:50,000
Speaker 5: say Denmark or Norway or the Netherlands for some legal reasons, because they have to tell you if there's a fee. that gets transmitted through European FBI. Fuck, I just spaced their names. Interpol. I can't tell if they're in the middle.

1098
03:46:52,000 --> 03:47:11,000
Speaker 4: help us? I don't understand. It feels like he's fed adjacent because of military service, but that he is trying to offer constructive advice. But, you know, again, this is not the best place to be taking your advice. Do your own research, educate yourself. There are smarter people than myself.

1099
03:47:12,000 --> 03:47:27,000
Speaker 1: This guy is pretty damn smart. He knows what he's talking about. - I don't think otherwise. - And don't use a VPN, start thinking WireGuard. - Ooh, WireGuard is a VPN. - No, it is not a VPN.

1100
03:47:29,000 --> 03:47:33,000
Speaker 7: It's another protocol. No, it is not anywhere near OpenVPN.

1101
03:47:35,000 --> 03:47:42,000
Speaker 1: to read the white page. I know it's different. Oh, Jenny found his man This is an old man you're talking about.

1102
03:47:42,000 --> 03:47:44,000
Speaker 2: - Jenny.

1103
03:47:44,000 --> 03:47:47,000
Speaker 8: - It's just another way of terminating

1104
03:47:47,000 --> 03:47:58,000
Speaker 4: - I hate IBM punch cards. Don't talk to him about assembly language shit. No, WireGuard, I'm not gonna get into it. This is not the community for this.

1105
03:47:59,000 --> 03:48:01,000
Speaker 5: It's more secure than a VPN.

1106
03:48:03,000 --> 03:48:10,000
Speaker 8: and a VPN? Isn't it more communications protocol and a VPN? Sort of like

1107
03:48:11,000 --> 03:48:12,000
Speaker 1: a communication system.

1108
03:48:13,000 --> 03:48:41,000
Speaker 5: Kind of yes, but it's got some attributes in it whereby you don't have to have a connection or a nailed up connection. With a VPN, you have to know For instance, you have to know the IP address of the client. That's accessing the VPN server, and that's not required under WireGuard.

1109
03:48:42,000 --> 03:48:45,000
Speaker 1: I use WireGuard all the time where you have an IP address that's,

1110
03:48:46,000 --> 03:49:11,000
Speaker 4: on the client side but you want to connect to a wireguard server can you can i ask you to do me a favor can you go to the wireguard website and read the first line wireguard.com you guys should make a video about this and then like upload it later we need to clip this this is all being recorded wireguard.com i mean like line well i don't have

1111
03:49:12,000 --> 03:49:23,000
Speaker 10: my laptop in front of me what's the what's the what's the first line fucking say wireguard is an extremely simple yet fast and modern VPN that utilizes state-of-the-art

1112
03:49:24,000 --> 03:49:28,000
Speaker 1: photography. Okay, so now we're going to

1113
03:49:29,000 --> 03:49:32,000
Speaker 5: and play semantics about what a virtual private network

1114
03:49:32,000 --> 03:49:36,000
Speaker 2: - You started with the semantics. - Oh gosh.

1115
03:49:37,000 --> 03:49:42,000
Speaker 4: - By the way, this was all about 3D printed guns and suppressors. - So anyway, right.

1116
03:49:44,000 --> 03:49:54,000
Speaker 1: gonna bail uh it it's 11 o'clock here guys same for four hours we can do this for a little longer but uh yeah let's

1117
03:49:55,000 --> 03:50:11,000
Speaker 4: Let's get some more follows in so we can all do this again next week. Print suppressors. Everybody have a great night. I'll see you later. Thanks, Nikolai. Decimal is here.

1118
03:50:11,000 --> 03:50:13,000
Speaker 2: - Has he spoken?

1119
03:50:13,000 --> 03:50:36,000
Speaker 1: They were losing people. We still got like 70 motherfuckers in here. Decimo has not yet spoken. Decimo is back. This is-- listen, guys, if you're new to like or like speaking like this, you have to look for that your chance to jump in there. it's really hard for me to like try to call individuals. If you feel like you have some sort of input right there and then say that shit out loud.

1120
03:50:36,000 --> 03:50:39,000
Speaker 10: Hey, Ralph, I'm sorry for yelling at that guy, but he's

1121
03:50:39,000 --> 03:50:47,000
Speaker 1: shape and then started going on semantics. I had the correct disaster that. Bro, he's an old man.

1122
03:50:49,000 --> 03:50:53,000
Speaker 10: I appreciate it, but yeah, when somebody comes at you, you got to respond.

1123
03:50:54,000 --> 03:50:58,000
Speaker 4: committed war crimes in Vietnam, which is objectively- You're goddamn right he did.

1124
03:50:59,000 --> 03:51:04,000
Speaker 10: I appreciate everything else. I appreciate everything else. He comes at me though. I got a response.

1125
03:51:05,000 --> 03:51:35,000
Speaker 4: I appreciate it. Self-defense, man. Self-defense. What do I got to do? I hope he shows back up at some point. I hope he gives me a follow. Yeah, he's good. I followed him, man. hostility there yeah he's all right I just know semantic I'd also like to point out he made a you are more than likely not anonymous from the federal government. What the point of anonymity is from like people like Cody and some of the feedback. Yeah, it was spooky.

1126
03:51:36,000 --> 03:51:59,000
Speaker 1: Who's got the printer running in the back? - Oh, sorry. - Yeah, we're trying to, to give our information to people like Cody. know the government can see and track everything so it's just a matter of an option of who we get to choose to give that information to like I never signed up for death I never wanted to pay for files.

1127
03:51:59,000 --> 03:52:02,000
Speaker 5: Agent. Agent Teddy.

1128
03:52:02,000 --> 03:52:04,000
Speaker 4: Checking in. Keep talking.

1129
03:52:05,000 --> 03:52:11,000
Speaker 10: thing and it's it's 3d printed related. albeit not directly related to the original conflict we've been going

1130
03:52:13,000 --> 03:52:18,000
Speaker 1: is it that to my knowledge and presumably the knowledge of everybody else here,

1131
03:52:20,000 --> 03:53:04,000
Speaker 10: 3D printed guns are objectively a way to proliferate between a federal government and its proxies. Not a single federal government has ever reached out designer or any creator or any maker within the greater community and attempted to recruit them to develop gun stuff that they can use to provide the proxies. Well, that we know of. Well, yeah, but you'd think that it would have come out by now that somebody would have said something or done something. NBA. Yeah, they keep that so confidential. Or there'd be a company that would be contracting it to people. It's simple. It's really simple. They can't take

1132
03:53:04,000 --> 03:53:32,000
Speaker 2: away from their contractors. They would be doing that by doing this. They're not gonna sit here and say, oh, let's take a 3D developer, have them bring a print fleet over to like, Africa where we're trying to start a war. They're not going to do that shit. They would they would rather have their defense contractors that they have those set up with already that they could just say, oh, hey, send the guns over It doesn't make sense for them to, you know, abandon their contractors that they have good relationships

1133
03:53:33,000 --> 03:53:37,000
Speaker 4: in trying out something that to them is like new and experimental obviously it's

1134
03:53:39,000 --> 03:53:42,000
Speaker 2: the guns they bring in, they can obviously tell those guns aren't bullshit because

1135
03:53:43,000 --> 03:53:44,000
Speaker 10: and they're working good.

1136
03:53:47,000 --> 03:54:01,000
Speaker 2: contracts for just like some psyop that may work in a small country when they can literally just send them like real fucking guns. You know what I mean? And it's so fucking cheap for them. Like, why would they waste the time on, you know, bringing in one of the developers?

1137
03:54:07,000 --> 03:54:11,000
Speaker 10: companies. That's what surprised me. I get that. My thought is more

1138
03:54:11,000 --> 03:54:14,000
Speaker 8: the lines of plausible deniability, because if you see

1139
03:54:17,000 --> 03:55:40,000
Speaker 10: more likely than not, this means that America has been of the parties involved, potentially the party that the weapons belong to, and as a result You know, that's where international conflicts end up coming from. "Oh yeah, here's proof that America free liberation. the thought would be that 3D printed guns with no association to any country of origin or anything would thus be a viable option since they could not be traced back anywhere by anyone, which is the problem that all these anti-gun people keep having over and over. You're assuming they care if they get traced back to anyone, man. They control the media. Anyway, continue. the first course. Back when there was a free at some when news is actually news. I mean, I don't know how free that person

1140
03:55:40,000 --> 03:55:47,000
Speaker 4: Who's making a 3D printable FAL? I want one, by the way.

1141
03:55:48,000 --> 03:55:57,000
Speaker 10: I mean, I'm surprised no one has. We got 3D printable AR-10s. We got 3D printable G3s. You'd think we'd have 3D print.

1142
03:55:58,000 --> 03:56:04,000
Speaker 4: by now i mean they're just sheet metal right pretty much you know

1143
03:56:06,000 --> 03:56:08,000
Speaker 3: Amen.

1144
03:56:08,000 --> 03:56:15,000
Speaker 2: Let's see. Oh, yeah. listen oh yes i'm

1145
03:56:15,000 --> 03:56:26,000
Speaker 4: DMing me about this. If nobody currently had topic of discussion, I was just going to circle back to the questions or maybe rebuttals or whatever to stuff that was mentioned a little bit earlier.

1146
03:56:27,000 --> 03:57:23,000
Speaker 1: Does the movement 3D2A need a face, quote unquote? - Kind of, right? - And why are we obligated to justify our existence, FA, et cetera, et cetera, to media, if not other people? - Listen, and this is my objective opinion, just because I've been there, I understand what it's like to have your face out there. There's a deeper connection to seeing someone watching them speak and attaching a name than to just being a fucking cat or an anime girl profile picture with a silly name. Like, it's different when there's an actual person to a face it makes shit a little more official so I feel like what putain was saying is if you don't Cody Wilson, replace him with someone else. I think that was the...

1147
03:57:24,000 --> 03:57:39,000
Speaker 10: Are we circling back a little bit? Should I bring up my counter-argument to that now that Puteng's back? Let's go. Yeah, it's the reason I fixed my headset. Puteng's like 12 years.

1148
03:57:39,000 --> 03:57:42,000
Speaker 5: - Yeah, it's only three, I think.

1149
03:57:43,000 --> 03:57:45,000
Speaker 2: 13, 11. My counter argument to you

1150
03:57:47,000 --> 03:58:14,000
Speaker 10: of somebody replacing Cody as the so-called face of GunCAD. The problem is that the media does not reach out face of Guncat is in good faith, they reach out with my Well, look at Middleton, look at Mr. Snow. Yeah, well, you've got to be willing to take that, man. And that's the point I was making. Somebody's got to be willing to hang their reputation and their life on that line.

1151
03:58:14,000 --> 03:58:20,000
Speaker 5: and not wait for them to reach out to you, right? Somebody's gotta, and you gotta be able to speak. Hate Cody for whatever.

1152
03:58:20,000 --> 03:58:34,000
Speaker 4: he is, he'll sit in front of a camera and he doesn't always make fucking sense, but he'll make words that sound like they make sense. But why? People don't get how hard speaking is, especially knowing you're the center.

1153
03:58:35,000 --> 03:58:52,000
Speaker 1: to call the spotlight like that yeah Like, that makes shit a little more tense. Like, you feel your heartbeat. You start to get a little high. you know it's it's not easy man and some people do it with like no effort but why does there need

1154
03:58:52,000 --> 03:59:04,000
Speaker 4: a representative. You know, why don't like, like, this shit's gonna happen one way or the other. If shit's made illegal, it's still gonna fucking happen. But that's what I'm saying about like Snow or Middleton. Like, they're not the

1155
03:59:05,000 --> 03:59:40,000
Speaker 1: They are representatives of the community that are willing to speak. It's not that they are the ones or that. There has to be more of us willing to show our faces and make this mainstream or else we're kind of just stuck where we are.

1156
03:59:41,000 --> 03:59:42,000
Speaker 7: They can use his association

1157
03:59:43,000 --> 03:59:47,000
Speaker 10: with GunCAD to well poison the entire GunCAD movement and ensure whoever reads that article

1158
03:59:48,000 --> 04:00:03,000
Speaker 4: So if they're never going to operate in good faith, why operate with them? Why interact with them? Just do your fucking thing. Well, that's the reason why Evan and Jason go out of their way to not interact with these people, even though they fully could. Good thing.

1159
04:00:04,000 --> 04:00:57,000
Speaker 7: way man and you're not hearing what i'm saying you keep saying they're gonna seek him out that's why i have said somebody else has to be willing and active to be that face man you and you keep saying they seek cody out cody seeks that attention cody wants that you keep saying they seek him out but they don't they don't go hunt him down he calls them up and maybe he's a narcissist i agree yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah i get it you can call him whatever you want but if we're gonna sit and say well if they come if they come talk to this other dude well Middleton doesn't want to know doesn't actively seek them right he responds well and he speaks well mr. Snow makes responds well speaks well he's got a whole nother life he doesn't want to actively be involved in it right so if you're gonna say well they don't seek out Middleton and mr. Snow makes and this other guy right that are kind of prominent in our community but aren't super in the face of the

1160
04:00:58,000 --> 04:01:25,000
Speaker 4: It's because they're not seeking it out because they don't want it. And a little bit of fame and fortune or not fortune, a little bit of fame they've received, right? From just waiting for the media to come talk to them is more than enough. Keegan or whatever, Keegan or whatever still did a hit piece with those guys. That's my whole point. Like, like I've, I've been on CNN and stuff. These people, they want to talk shit about you, you being there. They're not going.

1161
04:01:26,000 --> 04:01:55,000
Speaker 2: side of the story. They're not going to represent you. They're not arguing in good face. They're just helping them talk shit about you. As for a face for more neutral or even positive like I'm sure if any you know Tim cast or somebody asked Ralph to go on to talk about it he'd be like hell yeah or Pugh or Matt or anybody so there's there's people there but it's just like why aren't you volunteering yourself to go on to these hostile spaces get shit talked about and everything it's like because that's a bad idea all that

1162
04:01:55,000 --> 04:01:59,000
Speaker 1: on CNN got me was getting mom docs that didn't make anyone look better.

1163
04:02:00,000 --> 04:02:13,000
Speaker 8: Yeah, and that's and and yeah, and I don't know if you're trying to make a pro or a con, man, but but that's the point who wants to lay their life and their family and everything they've ever done on the whole planet out there on the line and be in front of that camera. And I'm not.

1164
04:02:13,000 --> 04:02:20,000
Speaker 2: I agree with you on that, but my point is nothing positive will come out of it anyways. There's only negative. Like you're looking at it.

1165
04:02:20,000 --> 04:02:21,000
Speaker 10: that something good will come out of it.

1166
04:02:22,000 --> 04:02:40,000
Speaker 4: will you just don't talk to these people well no no what is the good right are we here to proliferate from proliferate the signal and to spread the ability to make arms to people across the world are we here in the shadows, right?

1167
04:02:40,000 --> 04:03:11,000
Speaker 7: to just do this little thing and not have any bother us? Are we here to make the Second Amendment available to everybody else? And I'm not saying I'm the guy that's willing to stand up there, and it's obviously not the guy that's willing to stand up there and be fucking Cody Wilson. But I don't know if that's the point. And that may not be Cody Wilson's motives, but that's what he's doing. And that's also what he's doing with Death Cab. It's like saying, well, Amazon sucks. Yeah, we all know Amazon sucks. But have you ever tried to Google search a particular shoe in a particular size and try to find it for yourself now?

1168
04:03:12,000 --> 04:03:24,000
Speaker 5: 95% of the planet doesn't know even how to find the catalog is is the second most found I would say right from and I deal with a lot of average humans that are trying to 3d print our first gun.

1169
04:03:24,000 --> 04:03:30,000
Speaker 7: DEFCAD or they find the catalog and they find nothing else. Right. So back to kind of the point we're talking about,

1170
04:03:30,000 --> 04:03:34,000
Speaker 5: for you can hate death cad and works. I guess this is partially about

1171
04:03:35,000 --> 04:03:39,000
Speaker 4: but is somebody willing to I don't want to I'm not saying I like her

1172
04:03:40,000 --> 04:04:01,000
Speaker 7: think he should be the face of the movement but if we want it to move forward if we want everybody on the planet to be able to print their own firearm there's got to be somebody and we're right and the people in this room are the five percent of the planet that can find the files on odyssey this a long time and honestly still a little difficult to navigate man you're probably gonna have to send me a direct link

1173
04:04:03,000 --> 04:04:07,000
Speaker 5: You may or may not be a little bit.

1174
04:04:08,000 --> 04:04:14,000
Speaker 1: The whole point is... conversation.

1175
04:04:18,000 --> 04:04:27,000
Speaker 10: defense of unseen killer uh mr snow and middleton because they may or may not have

1176
04:04:30,000 --> 04:04:32,000
Speaker 2: or uploaded their models there.

1177
04:04:36,000 --> 04:05:21,000
Speaker 1: Well, I can't say it was the whole catalog, but it was Zona, which is the chief propaganda officer. Speaking of which, Zona is here, has requested to speak. I have added them as a... If they would like to speak, I'd love to hear from Zona. Man, this sucks. I was hoping Zona would come in the same time at Nikolai and we'd have a big argument. No, that's not the point. No, we're not having arguments here. We need PvP. That is not the point of the space. Civil discussion. But that was the whole point, is that I came out to their defense, and then I was just saying that Cody is not the demon.

1178
04:05:21,000 --> 04:05:30,000
Speaker 10: He's not the reason for every failure and every argument. I haven't checked my bed tonight yet, so I don't know.

1179
04:05:31,000 --> 04:05:36,000
Speaker 2: - I hope he's not, 'cause that's where I have all my guns.

1180
04:05:37,000 --> 04:05:40,000
Speaker 1: Arizona, I don't know if your mic's not working or what, but

1181
04:05:41,000 --> 04:05:44,000
Speaker 2: I don't know if you're there.

1182
04:05:45,000 --> 04:05:52,000
Speaker 1: it sounds really distorted sounds like a sub light it sounds like some some type of cut

1183
04:05:53,000 --> 04:06:07,000
Speaker 5: before we leave I want somebody to go on here it's the ghost gunner yeah it's kind of like the ghost gunner the ghost gunner alright somebody tell me what somebody give me a call

1184
04:06:08,000 --> 04:07:04,000
Speaker 1: - I'm gonna tweet, who's gonna be, who's gonna-- - No wait, before I lose my thought, I was gonna say we were talking about snow and Middleton and spotlight and all that you have. So in order to maintain that, it and then be actually crowned the head of that community. You have to gain the respect of everyone in it. As a person that's in the spotlight, you're never ever going to get 100% likes. There's going to be at least 10% of that thousand or a hundred thousand or million that absolutely despise you. At all. And as someone in that position, you have to be able to take that, brush it off and keep the fucking mission going. But the problem is most people, once they get to that 10,000, 100,000 followers, all these views, they feel that pressure and they can't take that hate.

1185
04:07:05,000 --> 04:07:07,000
Speaker 2: They want everyone to love them.

1186
04:07:07,000 --> 04:07:14,000
Speaker 1: "Well, what did I do to this person? it gets to some people and you see some people fall back.

1187
04:07:14,000 --> 04:07:17,000
Speaker 2: Unseen Killer was in here earlier talking about how

1188
04:07:19,000 --> 04:07:29,000
Speaker 1: disappearing, falling off. Why? Because they're getting hate. These people can't They got so much going on in their personal life. They come over here for this hobby to get their fucking mind off.

1189
04:07:29,000 --> 04:07:34,000
Speaker 2: of real life, the kids, the work, the school, whatever the fuck, they just build a cool gun.

1190
04:07:35,000 --> 04:07:51,000
Speaker 1: people's, you know, on the internet building guns. gaining a little clout or whatever, because you're doing some cool shit. And here comes the haters to completely throw off your whole vibe. And next thing you do, it's like, man, fuck all this shit.

1191
04:07:52,000 --> 04:08:19,000
Speaker 2: anymore so there's one there's one thing to consider and that's that cody wilson despite being the quote unquote face of gun cad has zero respect from any of his peers except for crips and he keeps going this is my point you have to be able to just say fuck everything and just keep going and that's that's why i don't get why fdm is like sucking cody off like bro what are you doing uh he he no cody has the respect

1192
04:08:19,000 --> 04:08:24,000
Speaker 4: of people who he doesn't have respect from is just people from

1193
04:08:24,000 --> 04:08:31,000
Speaker 1: and a few people here and there. He is the barrier for entry into the space, whether you like it or not.

1194
04:08:31,000 --> 04:08:34,000
Speaker 3: That is objectively untrue. Hold on, wait, hold on. Everybody hold on, hold on, hold on.

1195
04:08:36,000 --> 04:08:39,000
Speaker 1: If you go to the DEFCAD right fucking now, and you look at all the

1196
04:08:39,000 --> 04:08:44,000
Speaker 2: files that they're fucking hosting right now how many of them were made by FedCAD fucking

1197
04:08:45,000 --> 04:08:47,000
Speaker 10: and how many of them are original Fed cash

1198
04:08:47,000 --> 04:09:22,000
Speaker 2: and how many of them come from something from the catalog, come from BLC, come from AWC, CY. All of them are from other developers. They don't make designs. I understand that you're fighting for it. Like, bro, let's be fucking real. If everyone in this community stopped making files, there would be no more FedCAD files because they don't have devs. Like, I don't know who you think respects the dude. None of the people who make the guns make the fucking advancements in this field.

1199
04:09:22,000 --> 04:10:02,000
Speaker 10: support him. I'm sorry to get bad now, but it's been how many hours? I'm not going to argue with you, but I don't understand why you're pushing it. The people who do respect him and the people who do fuck with him are too afraid to come out. No, maybe, but they're too afraid to come out. Nobody wants, who is going to stand on Cody Wilson when there's so much of this bullshit?

1200
04:10:03,000 --> 04:10:08,000
Speaker 8: You can hate them all you want. But it was discussed earlier.

1201
04:10:08,000 --> 04:10:21,000
Speaker 9: Somebody's got to step up and do it. Now, I don't know whether it's a marketing. I don't know if it's all the cameras Cody puts himself in front of. And I don't have to like it. You don't have to like it. But somebody else, right, if the goal

1202
04:10:21,000 --> 04:10:26,000
Speaker 8: is for the 95% of the planet that can't navigate Odyssey or anywhere else to be able to

1203
04:10:27,000 --> 04:10:54,000
Speaker 4: ever be able to print a gun somebody's got to be there and that's and that's what defcad does you could be mad at you can hate it but that's what it does it's exactly that's all it does he can be a shithead he can be out shooting puppies in the head out back behind the house so guys listen listen he brings it to the dumb masses listen guys it's like amazon but you can hire everything you can hire

1204
04:10:55,000 --> 04:10:57,000
Speaker 2: if you can't do it yourself.

1205
04:10:58,000 --> 04:12:32,000
Speaker 4: posting, you two can spin up your own website just as easily as the ads tell you. You can put files behind it. You can steal them. You can contract with fucking people. If you want somebody else to do it and the issue is what you're saying is that it's a user interface issue and a marketing issue, I guess is your argument, then I don't care, but the fucking everybody else is still going to be like, oh, I'm going to be their thing anyway like if they wanted to go and do that it is that easy they would go and do it maf has a website to sell their parts kits and they could just as easily have a website to distribute files like i don't understand like what what your argument is for me. - Exactly. - I think we're getting lost - We're not seeing the weeds here guys. Like we're not seeing the forest for the trees. The problem is not with him hosting the files necessarily. the only legal means of acquiring those files, which he is not. Well, he's lying. Like, what do you want us to do about that? Like, what do you want us to do about that specifically, though? Like, be better? I appreciate the idea, but, like, it's too much of a distraction, or it's too much of a time sink, you know? Or, like, nobody wants to work together as a fucking monolith to do it. We're not going to get more people in the community by having them afraid to go anywhere else to get files and to explore and to spread the signal. If they're like, oh, I can only go to DefCAD. I can only pay money to use their service. They're the only legal means of doing it. That's the problem.

1206
04:12:33,000 --> 04:12:45,000
Speaker 10: you to to parrot this dumb shit this stuff about cody about he's a monster that that's who's doing it that's yeah yeah he sucks with the minor bro he's kind of he's kind of a monster

1207
04:12:46,000 --> 04:12:53,000
Speaker 4: man, but he's a piece of shit monster. Fuck off. I was going to say this because I'm kind of new. Also, so someone new, I kind of joined

1208
04:12:53,000 --> 04:12:58,000
Speaker 10: I know more people that were turned off just from typing in my personal information

1209
04:12:59,000 --> 04:13:13,000
Speaker 2: DEFCAD. That's how I found out what Odyssey is. Maybe Boomer is it's a bigger thing they go to DEFCAD first, but I think more people like PSR and stuff. And that usually tells people about Odyssey. by the way.

1210
04:13:13,000 --> 04:13:26,000
Speaker 1: I agree with that. I agree with that. I think I only know two people who have actual Def Cad. But Odyssey, as I was saying before, Odyssey could end tomorrow.

1211
04:13:26,000 --> 04:13:44,000
Speaker 10: And I know that's what is wrong about that. They've been sold to Arweave. They've already been sold to another company. And we don't know the political ideology of their CEO. So what, brother? Brother, it's fear-mongering.

1212
04:13:45,000 --> 04:14:15,000
Speaker 4: already established what happens next Okay, we should move on. No, but that's not going to happen because it's not happening. You have Odyssey and you have death. So it was Odyssey going away tomorrow or no. And what happens if it does fucking We've already said what's going to happen. something other will sprout up, right? I doubt it. It has it. It has every time. Isn't the catalog its own website? Like, that's not off of Odyssey. No, no. They can literally just move the...

1213
04:14:18,000 --> 04:14:24,000
Speaker 1: Yeah. And it would get rid of us. Hold on, hold on. That's not their goal.

1214
04:14:25,000 --> 04:14:26,000
Speaker 2: - Odyssey?

1215
04:14:28,000 --> 04:15:01,000
Speaker 10: 100% I thought it was like its own thing Were you here when Keybase was bought out by Zoom And every GunCAD group was forced off of it? I'm asking, was he here when that happened? I was. I was here. That's right when I joined, actually. Within how many days was the deterrence dispensed rocket chat and every single matrix group set up from the moment that matrix has been the moment that he based think it was hours. It was pretty damn quick. Actually. I remember

1216
04:15:02,000 --> 04:15:14,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, it was really quick. Yeah, we're hard to kill. My point exactly. Jesus. That is exactly what would happen in the event that Odyssey were to go down tomorrow. A trigger would be immediately pulled,

1217
04:15:14,000 --> 04:15:26,000
Speaker 10: everything would be immediately transferred over to a new platform. in 24 hours. aren't we doing it now or why isn't catalog doing it right now at this very second why

1218
04:15:28,000 --> 04:16:06,000
Speaker 4: If there's so much money on the table being left behind and fucking PR, you do it, brother. Catalog already has everything. Bruh, I got DefCAD. I got DefCAD to use. Why am I going to spend? DEFCOD to use. And if you have DEFCOD to use, why do you care about what the we're doing or anybody else. That's not the conversation. It is now. It is now. This is a fluid conversation, brother. Yeah, don't run away from things. Run away from. Yeah, now you're in the point you've made, dude. Yes, answer the question, please.

1219
04:16:08,000 --> 04:16:09,000
Speaker 2: - Yeah, to be fair, the guy

1220
04:16:10,000 --> 04:16:11,000
Speaker 1: under fire for over

1221
04:16:14,000 --> 04:16:46,000
Speaker 4: To be fair, he can being under fire for four hours. He chose to come on here. I'm surprised the motherfucker's still here. He's been evasive. he changes the subject and fucking dodges and projects and all too. Don't forget that. You can go read it. Yeah, whatever he hasn't deleted, go read it. Come on. Your lawyer the fun. I don't have a lawyer. I don't have a lawyer I'm not affiliated with the catalog in any way. with them. Don't be such a clown.

1222
04:16:47,000 --> 04:16:50,000
Speaker 1: Fuckaroo Banzai

1223
04:16:50,000 --> 04:16:57,000
Speaker 10: favorite movie in the Netflix at this point. Matt will not show up.

1224
04:16:58,000 --> 04:17:00,000
Speaker 1: Tell RK to join.

1225
04:17:03,000 --> 04:17:08,000
Speaker 4: Zona will not come. We can hear whoever – Zona literally – - I'm gonna be here.

1226
04:17:10,000 --> 04:17:15,000
Speaker 2: Let's hear Zona. Let's hear Zona. Let's go.

1227
04:17:17,000 --> 04:17:20,000
Speaker 4: - I think I just deflected entirely to bringing up somebody else.

1228
04:17:22,000 --> 04:17:36,000
Speaker 10: - Dude, I got severe ADHD. - That's bullshit, so do I, man. Come on, let's go, take notes. around I will answer it I will answer no no you can't hear anything

1229
04:17:36,000 --> 04:17:40,000
Speaker 4: - Somebody's got to-- and

1230
04:17:40,000 --> 04:17:42,000
Speaker 1: I have a quick question.

1231
04:17:43,000 --> 04:17:50,000
Speaker 2: Sam, what would you do? cat goes down. I'll use the Odyssey.

1232
04:17:51,000 --> 04:17:57,000
Speaker 10: goes down wait wait hold on if he goes down i'll move to torrents but that's me i'm not a boomer

1233
04:17:59,000 --> 04:18:02,000
Speaker 2: So your whole argument right now, as far as I'm understanding, is

1234
04:18:02,000 --> 04:18:14,000
Speaker 10: You want us to leave DEFCAD alone because you feel like at least it's a repository that the pleb can reach. Regardless of its practices, you view it as a resource.

1235
04:18:14,000 --> 04:18:34,000
Speaker 2: the pledge and reach. Right. It's a hundred percent. Okay. And, and our argument is that sure you may be right. There is going to be that resource, but guess what? If the resource is charging people things that are supposed to be free, do you view that as a good business practice? that as something that's kind of fucked up.

1236
04:18:34,000 --> 04:18:37,000
Speaker 3: THE FAMILY IS THE FAMILY.

1237
04:18:38,000 --> 04:18:40,000
Speaker 10: are reselling

1238
04:18:41,000 --> 04:18:44,000
Speaker 3: that people don't know

1239
04:18:45,000 --> 04:18:59,000
Speaker 10: people are not wanting to be resold. Hold on. Can I jump in here? Wait, wait, everybody wait. Everybody wait. Please, everybody wait. Continue. That's morally wrong from a moral standpoint.

1240
04:18:59,000 --> 04:19:07,000
Speaker 2: But so the argument of good, but. From my philosophical point of view,

1241
04:19:07,000 --> 04:19:14,000
Speaker 1: know about FOSS and open source I'm kind of like you know pirate pirate everything I'm

1242
04:19:15,000 --> 04:19:21,000
Speaker 4: flag. I don't give a shit. Can I add a dimension to the question? If you are

1243
04:19:21,000 --> 04:19:26,000
Speaker 5: If you're too dumb to find something that's free, is it moral?

1244
04:19:26,000 --> 04:20:04,000
Speaker 4: wrong to charge you for it. Should I find you the free thing and carry it to your doorstep and hand it to you? No, I don't know that anybody's objecting to that per se. Like, it's really not about that he's charging necessarily. It's about That's how I view it. And again, I deal with a lot of consumer public that is too dumb

1245
04:20:04,000 --> 04:20:06,000
Speaker 1: things to be sold.

1246
04:20:09,000 --> 04:20:15,000
Speaker 4: I get it, I get it, but look at it from a different perspective. If it's on the street and it's free

1247
04:20:15,000 --> 04:20:17,000
Speaker 7: but I'm too dumb.

1248
04:20:17,000 --> 04:20:22,000
Speaker 10: find it and pick it up. I'm not arguing pro

1249
04:20:22,000 --> 04:20:24,000
Speaker 5: Right?

1250
04:20:24,000 --> 04:20:33,000
Speaker 8: I guess I'm thinking you're using it as a jump guy's going to the jump guy's going to drive around All the scrap aluminum and iron that everybody put out for the trap.

1251
04:20:35,000 --> 04:20:36,000
Speaker 5: - That's great.

1252
04:20:37,000 --> 04:20:39,000
Speaker 4: a couple of years ago and my neighbor

1253
04:20:40,000 --> 04:20:42,000
Speaker 9: and he sold it.

1254
04:20:43,000 --> 04:20:48,000
Speaker 10: neighbor because I didn't feel like fucking with that mother

1255
04:20:49,000 --> 04:20:51,000
Speaker 3: - Let's do it.

1256
04:20:51,000 --> 04:21:05,000
Speaker 5: I made a second ago if you're too dumb to find the free stuff it's okay it's okay to be mad at the guy Charging for finding the free stuff for you But and again maybe being in this too long and looking at it for too long

1257
04:21:06,000 --> 04:21:09,000
Speaker 8: too many of the public. It's like, where do I get these

1258
04:21:09,000 --> 04:21:10,000
Speaker 4: I'm like, well, if you

1259
04:21:11,000 --> 04:21:14,000
Speaker 8: find it. I've literally done that. Right. And I deal in

1260
04:21:15,000 --> 04:21:22,000
Speaker 5: service or technical support aspect. So you just have to say it or Ralph will say it.

1261
04:21:22,000 --> 04:21:24,000
Speaker 9: But anyway. - No, you're good.

1262
04:21:25,000 --> 04:21:29,000
Speaker 5: to go over these parts and I say well go to Odyssey here I type out the

1263
04:21:30,000 --> 04:21:33,000
Speaker 8: Here's the letters and you'll probably find something there.

1264
04:21:35,000 --> 04:21:46,000
Speaker 5: eventually sends me a link to Deftcat. I'm like, well, yeah, that file will work. If that's what you found, I guess. Anyway, I'm not, I'm not just fine.

1265
04:21:47,000 --> 04:21:53,000
Speaker 8: And he's going wrong. And it's, is it gatekeeping? If they come begging for it, if

1266
04:21:53,000 --> 04:21:59,000
Speaker 5: free in the river and you come and ask me to buy a bottle of water anyways go ahead guys

1267
04:21:59,000 --> 04:22:05,000
Speaker 3: For your analogy, right, if you have your lawnmower in your backyard and a guy just takes it,

1268
04:22:05,000 --> 04:22:09,000
Speaker 9: and you have a sign on it that says, don't take this.

1269
04:22:10,000 --> 04:22:11,000
Speaker 2: That's a little bit.

1270
04:22:12,000 --> 04:22:21,000
Speaker 10: up he's not just never increased up there are things that you asked him to take down yeah i agree that's theft and i should take action

1271
04:22:21,000 --> 04:22:29,000
Speaker 4: to, and again, I know. The action never results in the money. I can take the action if I can.

1272
04:22:29,000 --> 04:22:32,000
Speaker 5: You're a piece of shit that shouldn't exist.

1273
04:22:33,000 --> 04:22:55,000
Speaker 10: I mean, this, it would solve... If somebody... If somebody would... Hold on, hold on. One at a time. One at a time. One at a time. make a website. know invite invite to upload their files and then pay them like Cody.

1274
04:22:55,000 --> 04:23:08,000
Speaker 4: I mean, could they do that? Would they do that? So pay them $0? No, pay them. Okay, so Cody's not paying either. So again, why are you defending DefCAD? Because it's like... the evil that you know or what?

1275
04:23:09,000 --> 04:23:10,000
Speaker 3: Amen.

1276
04:23:11,000 --> 04:23:15,000
Speaker 10: We're getting back to a couple minutes ago where somebody said they talked to a lot of people.

1277
04:23:16,000 --> 04:23:34,000
Speaker 1: No, he answered the question. it's just another option and that most know the lore or who what he did. They just know that that's a place where you can get the files. And after half hours, that's the conclusion.

1278
04:23:35,000 --> 04:23:43,000
Speaker 8: I want to say something really quick on that. You know, the whole nobody knows who the, you know, nobody knows the lore behind.

1279
04:23:43,000 --> 04:23:45,000
Speaker 4: cad and cody wilson outside of the uh...

1280
04:23:46,000 --> 04:23:47,000
Speaker 2: here, blah, blah, blah.

1281
04:23:48,000 --> 04:24:11,000
Speaker 4: That is not the fucking case. in the firearms industry. I know owners of most of these companies that you guys buy guns off from and blah, blah, blah. - The first thing all these guys have asked me when I tell them that, you know, they all know that I'm from the 3D printing world. The first thing all these motherfuckers have ever asked me is please tell me with that motherfucker Cody Wilson. I was, I get free guns.

1282
04:24:11,000 --> 04:24:17,000
Speaker 8: I'll say that right off the bat from these specific companies. And one said, I'm not giving you this if you are associated with them.

1283
04:24:17,000 --> 04:24:20,000
Speaker 7: And I laughed dying. But they were dead serious.

1284
04:24:21,000 --> 04:25:48,000
Speaker 4: when P-80, the company P-80, started selling the ghost and teamed up with Cody Wilson. It backfired on them astronomically, and I'm willing to share this. They reached out to several different companies because it backfired on them very bad. No company wanted to work or save them because to drop Cody Wilson or anything to do with this company. They were of your same opinion, well, no one really knows exactly, no. Everyone in the firearms industry knows who the fucker is. Nobody wants them around in the industry. - Having you in a SHOT Show But all these motherfuckers, no one likes them. and nobody likes it. which is a thing with the drop off the face of the for the most part. I don't get where you think this Nobody knows who he is outside of here because everybody does. And everybody knows what he does. is doing and they always do God. Because everyone they it's backfired on. He's literally the one that I know will say obligation and all this debt has cost them millions of dollars, blah, blah, blah. The last stake in their coffin was working with Cody Wilson that effectively ended P80. And nobody in the Gundam out or help revive them due to that.

1285
04:25:50,000 --> 04:26:33,000
Speaker 1: that because I have heard this in the grapevine of the, what do you call it, behind the curtains, associated with him in any way. Yeah, most people tried to fucking accept you like 20 times bro you keep re-requesting i accept it every time it's not working, brother, try again in a different method. Jesus. Like 50 times this guy fucking Yeah, the space is doing something weird. I got kicked too. chosen at a time. So there is times where if someone's not speaking, I'll just remove you and add the next person who requested. So there's that.

1286
04:26:34,000 --> 04:26:37,000
Speaker 2: I got a question for Diane Exus.

1287
04:26:38,000 --> 04:26:40,000
Speaker 1: Cody Wilson, what did they think about Rob Pink?

1288
04:26:40,000 --> 04:26:58,000
Speaker 4: - Everyone has me. the... time I got asked about him and I told this person my gripe with him I really have nothing too bad against Rob Pincus you know little knowing whatever the

1289
04:27:00,000 --> 04:27:02,000
Speaker 8: enough against them. I just like poking fun at the

1290
04:27:03,000 --> 04:27:14,000
Speaker 4: But every person in the gun industry finds it funny that every generation of person that enters the industry has their own little gripe with Pincus for one of them.

1291
04:27:14,000 --> 04:27:18,000
Speaker 9: and they'll tell me, "Oh, what's your thing against them?" And I just bring him

1292
04:27:20,000 --> 04:27:30,000
Speaker 8: blah, blah, blah, how somebody I was after him at SHOT Show when I'm just, I was an overweight ass fucking Mexican. What the hell was I gonna do?

1293
04:27:30,000 --> 04:28:03,000
Speaker 4: SHOT Show, but I just found it funny. The SHOT Show 2022, he was a because he thought I was gonna do something, which was kind of fucking funny and hilarious to me. has their own fun little anecdote about him in a way that he's done something hilariously dumb or something like that, but it's not been anything like serious. Maybe he thought you were gonna fuck his wife. Isn't that the meme? Maybe he thought you were gonna convince him to do crack like Freytek did. I don't know.

1294
04:28:03,000 --> 04:28:05,000
Speaker 8: pretty funny to me just because

1295
04:28:05,000 --> 04:28:06,000
Speaker 4: I was like,

1296
04:28:07,000 --> 04:28:08,000
Speaker 3: here and

1297
04:28:08,000 --> 04:28:26,000
Speaker 4: I'm just an idiot walking around the showroom floor. And then I took a picture of at his booth, you know, the 1911 Glock thing that he came out with. And that somehow, yeah, going to use that as, oh, see, he is after you. I was like, what? I'm drunk on the showroom floor.

1298
04:28:27,000 --> 04:28:29,000
Speaker 3: that we didn't get

1299
04:28:29,000 --> 04:28:35,000
Speaker 10: to talk last shot. I mean, after the whole business where someone, you know, dropped the PKM, that was a

1300
04:28:37,000 --> 04:28:40,000
Speaker 1: - Someone, are we just gonna pretend it wasn't easy?

1301
04:28:40,000 --> 04:28:56,000
Speaker 4: Was it Yeezy? Was he permanently banned from the showroom floor for dropping fake guns? No, Yeezy was not banned from the showroom floor for dropping fake guns. That was just a Twitter bit.

1302
04:28:57,000 --> 04:29:35,000
Speaker 10: - Oh. - You know, it could have been worse. He could have put beans in it. There are people in this chat who would gladly put beans in it. - A.G. cat and bread. - That would be me. - I want to see people putting mustard on guns, more mustard. - No, maybe. - That's where it's at. - No, you put the mustard on the AK and then you remove it, and then it has that, you know, texture effect. - Jesus. - I want to say here that anybody in this chat anybody who still follows me, anybody who doesn't, anybody who's listening, There's not one point one point And in this whole,

1303
04:29:37,000 --> 04:29:43,000
Speaker 2: or hold any ill will to. There's not enough room in my heart for that type of bullshit.

1304
04:29:43,000 --> 04:30:06,000
Speaker 1: So, you know, take it for what you will That's kind of how I feel too Like I don't have hate for anyone, man do certain things everyone has their reasoning there's no hate in my heart for anybody so I think that's where we have something in common there because fuck - That's a lot of DefCAD bullshit.

1305
04:30:07,000 --> 04:30:25,000
Speaker 10: I think that the common denominator for UFDM is that no one hates you. They just think you say stupid stuff sometimes. Yep. we are all entitled to our opinions. And that's another point. And you're allowed to be shamed for those opinions publicly. Exactly. And also people are going

1306
04:30:25,000 --> 04:30:31,000
Speaker 4: I'm going to draw conclusions about you two understand based on who you associate with and defend

1307
04:30:32,000 --> 04:30:39,000
Speaker 10: They can do that. I mean, that's they're free to do. I mean, I know who I am. I'm secure.

1308
04:30:41,000 --> 04:31:07,000
Speaker 4: But it seemed like there was an element, maybe not about you, but maybe about the wealth of you the scene in general is that it was too toxic and too much name calling and being mean. It's like, brother, we have no obligation to be nice to people that or people that say silly shit. that in mind too. You can just ignore it as well. No, I love the banner back and forth, but what I don't

1309
04:31:08,000 --> 04:31:10,000
Speaker 10: is I don't like...

1310
04:31:11,000 --> 04:31:12,000
Speaker 1: Like Zona.

1311
04:31:13,000 --> 04:31:17,000
Speaker 2: - Dude, that actually scares me a little bit.

1312
04:31:18,000 --> 04:31:25,000
Speaker 10: an unhinged psychos. Like it gets a little rough and people were like, you never

1313
04:31:27,000 --> 04:31:29,000
Speaker 2: You're fucking exing me.

1314
04:31:29,000 --> 04:32:00,000
Speaker 1: in front of my face a death threat and then x said this tweet violated blah blah blah it deletes him so there wasn't i'm sorry i'm not i'm not one of those people is he coming out for anyone else no he's he's not cutting out really no i'm sorry am i cutting out my bad daggabbit cripsy we just want to have a decent texas representative in the gun cad world is that really too hard to ask for

1315
04:32:00,000 --> 04:32:09,000
Speaker 4: real quick, talking about everyone's making public statements here and all that. You realize if in 28 days, whatever you cited, Sun Info about catalog comes out, then no

1316
04:32:12,000 --> 04:32:20,000
Speaker 1: you realize that right 27th remember that date and guess what if nothing happens i'm gonna get hung

1317
04:32:21,000 --> 04:32:38,000
Speaker 4: - No, but why then? Why stir shit up? Hold on. Respectfully speaking, if you had never said anything in defense of Cody Wilson, not a single soul in this chat would have any beef with you whatsoever.

1318
04:32:38,000 --> 04:32:40,000
Speaker 7: One, that's not how it happened.

1319
04:32:41,000 --> 04:32:51,000
Speaker 10: they were compiling a list of devs, okay, who, who, on purpose, uses DefCAD, you know?

1320
04:32:52,000 --> 04:32:56,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's fucked up. People's right to do that.

1321
04:32:56,000 --> 04:32:59,000
Speaker 8: - No, they wanted to

1322
04:32:59,000 --> 04:33:08,000
Speaker 10: harass them and make them stop. I'm not down. No, that was not the post.

1323
04:33:08,000 --> 04:33:14,000
Speaker 1: It was in the post. RK made a post saying consequences for people who associate with the

1324
04:33:15,000 --> 04:33:17,000
Speaker 2: the death cad and everything about it,

1325
04:33:19,000 --> 04:33:44,000
Speaker 10: to the things that you like and that you agree with that we should do. It's literally saying, hey, that guy is over there being an You can't kill him, you can't shoot him, you can't arrest him, I just need you to work around the axe-wielding murderer. And that's what you said. You said it's okay to just ignore the axe-wielding murderer. And what's that?

1326
04:33:44,000 --> 04:33:47,000
Speaker 9: What Arkay said is there should be consequences for people

1327
04:33:48,000 --> 04:33:51,000
Speaker 10: believe that. Do you understand that?

1328
04:33:51,000 --> 04:33:53,000
Speaker 3: And that wasn't the case.

1329
04:33:53,000 --> 04:33:56,000
Speaker 2: Post that that was not the only post specifically.

1330
04:33:56,000 --> 04:33:58,000
Speaker 4: Arizona.

1331
04:33:59,000 --> 04:34:08,000
Speaker 1: posted. I mean, I'm reading it right here. She said, so what is this? Or I'm sorry. So what is it you do at Def Cad?

1332
04:34:09,000 --> 04:34:18,000
Speaker 10: And she said, nevermind Snow and Middleton, FDM, unseen killer, which none of us work for Defqad. None of us.

1333
04:34:19,000 --> 04:34:21,000
Speaker 1: by Deafcare.

1334
04:34:21,000 --> 04:34:22,000
Speaker 10: Uh, I I'm not.

1335
04:34:23,000 --> 04:34:28,000
Speaker 1: I know unseen killer does not get paid by Def cat. I knew it was a

1336
04:34:29,000 --> 04:34:32,000
Speaker 10: that they're working for DEPCO?

1337
04:34:34,000 --> 04:34:51,000
Speaker 1: I didn't think it mattered, but an email form very professionally by Cody Wilson. Garrett, whatever his name is. G.W. is what he goes on.

1338
04:34:52,000 --> 04:35:01,000
Speaker 2: Anyways, they make it seem to the person they're reaching out to, like, they're They're like, "Hey, I'm gonna hook you up, bro."

1339
04:35:03,000 --> 04:35:06,000
Speaker 1: and this and that. very promising

1340
04:35:07,000 --> 04:35:13,000
Speaker 2: offer. Now there was no monetary offer of any sort. It's just kind of like a, hey, we

1341
04:35:14,000 --> 04:35:53,000
Speaker 1: doing something cool, we want to work with you." And I already knew of the whole DefCAD thing, and like I said, when I first got it, I never supported the thought of paying for files. I was always people who paid for files so of course I knew who he was and I was like nah I'm good and kind of left it at that they reached out one more time I completely ignored it and then the next time I where my name was mentioned, where Cody Wilson didn't fuck with P-80 route. oh he must remember that email that I ignored but what I'm

1342
04:35:53,000 --> 04:35:57,000
Speaker 2: is some people fall for that offer. Oh shit.

1343
04:35:58,000 --> 04:36:12,000
Speaker 1: I get that appeal. And some people fall for it. Ralph. So you're saying that this means There's people who will do it for free.

1344
04:36:13,000 --> 04:36:15,000
Speaker 2: Just to say that they're

1345
04:36:16,000 --> 04:36:22,000
Speaker 1: - Wow. - Well, I don't know who you're the first one.

1346
04:36:22,000 --> 04:36:25,000
Speaker 2: Hold up, hold up. Who you referring to here?

1347
04:36:25,000 --> 04:36:31,000
Speaker 10: - No, nobody, I'm just saying that if they're reaching out to people to be dick warmers for free, like that's pretty impressive.

1348
04:36:34,000 --> 04:37:06,000
Speaker 4: - I'd say Ralph, Garrett hit me up as well pretty early on. I think it was 2022, he DM'd me, offering me kind of deal and with monetaries. - And why not let people do it? If they make an adult decision, you to say they can't or shouldn't. Should we bring up... It's the whole doxing thing again, though. I mean, we're saying it's not safe for them to associate with this person. Should we bring up 1776 supply codes?

1349
04:37:06,000 --> 04:37:16,000
Speaker 1: - I think we should Ralph. - I'm gonna need to talk about 1776, 'cause they had the same approach to making

1350
04:37:16,000 --> 04:37:19,000
Speaker 2: as DefCAD, the same exact, "Hey, we see

1351
04:37:19,000 --> 04:37:31,000
Speaker 1: that you're doing something cool. and this and this and that. Turns out later, their feds shut down the whole business. Oh, 1776. I feel bad for them because they-

1352
04:37:32,000 --> 04:37:33,000
Speaker 10: Invader Zip's reputation.

1353
04:37:34,000 --> 04:37:43,000
Speaker 2: And I feel very bad for that. - Completely, and digital Nimbus. - Man, I completely Nimbus. IPS? Like what happened

1354
04:37:43,000 --> 04:38:25,000
Speaker 1: french how did he just disappear this kid yeah uh cool those are the two people who got me into the space bro i'm just saying when you there's certain entities out there that have ill intent on the community they prey on us yeah we have been smart enough to see that and the way that this is all one fed office acted the same way the same way that's what i'm saying they approach you they're like hey we see you're doing some cool shit what's your address we're gonna send you this this and that i was like oh shit you got you got the new

1355
04:38:25,000 --> 04:38:34,000
Speaker 2: - I want the something before the release. Like I fell for that. - And imagine if you-- - Ralph, did they also offer you giveaways too?

1356
04:38:35,000 --> 04:38:39,000
Speaker 1: giveaways for anybody that's followed me for a long time you'll never see me hey at a 10 000 bend

1357
04:38:40,000 --> 04:38:42,000
Speaker 2: I don't fucking do that.

1358
04:38:42,000 --> 04:38:44,000
Speaker 1: lame as fuck. If you do that, that's cool.

1359
04:38:46,000 --> 04:39:13,000
Speaker 3: that to me that's not cool i'll interject here just so everybody else can talk uh imagine if the owner was compromised the guy you know the way that the feds always do it with the whole thing with miners you know the whole epstein thing so you got a guy who's compromised who owns a website that does the quote-unquote kyc for no objective reason he doesn't there's no legal requirement for it so he collects all these names and he reaches out for people

1360
04:39:13,000 --> 04:39:16,000
Speaker 1: to collect their names that way. I mean, it's the...

1361
04:39:17,000 --> 04:39:37,000
Speaker 4: It's beautiful. It's all a centralized place. Dude, there is a legal requirement. No, there isn't. Fuck off of that. We're going to see. We're going to see. It's in the courts now. If you're going to keep citing there's a legal requirement, could you at least tell us which law it is, what the number is, or something like that? What he just said, he said it's in the courts. So it's in the courts.

1362
04:39:37,000 --> 04:39:53,000
Speaker 1: like December 27th is probably one of these court dates that's coming up because he's saying 28 days I'm just being very specific, but like not. I see what you're doing. You're stepping on eggshells 'cause you think someone's listening, and you don't want to give too much information. what's going on now. Also, FDM, you're in

1363
04:39:53,000 --> 04:40:04,000
Speaker 4: But you think that the law dictates your morality. Like you can't have your own standards until the law comes down with some kind of conclusion. - And he keeps saying very clearly, "This is my opinion."

1364
04:40:04,000 --> 04:40:27,000
Speaker 2: He's speaking very carefully. Yes, exactly. There's someone listening that... Unlike your boss, we don't do that kind of stuff where we take a bunch of screenshots and try to throw you under the bus and dox you. It is my opinion, and I do follow the law. If anyone's Yeah, we don't do that stuff like your boss does. Follow your local walls. Okay.

1365
04:40:28,000 --> 04:40:29,000
Speaker 9: - Very fucking quickly.

1366
04:40:30,000 --> 04:41:29,000
Speaker 4: Since 1776 Co. was brought up. Let's hear it. Let's hear it. Blah, blah, blah. I would like to say that I attended a 1776 Co. party back in 2022 SHOT Show. And who was the person who showed up at the very end? It was Cody Wilson. And I got to call him a pedophile to his face. No way. And that was the happiest day of my life. Because I slapped him on his back and called him a pedophile. And I walked away drunk as hell to my Uber. back into that party. He just. Who's the one talking? You mentioned that. Hold on, hold on. One second, one second. I just wanted to say that because I know that Cody is in here listening to us and watching us because he's sending people messages like spooky. So say Matt Cody. So I just wanted to tie all that together there. Now that you mentioned that I do remember that.

1367
04:41:30,000 --> 04:42:03,000
Speaker 1: 1776 was actually one of the biggest suppliers of parts There was specific parts that only 1776 had access to, or they had ties to other companies like ZP, which started selling them unbranded parts in wholesale. Everything was like cash in the parking lot type shit. super sketchy, and they started getting involved with ghostguns.com, which then, yeah, is top. baby, Tony Wilson, and he went to that party, he showed up, they're all feds, like, this is so,

1368
04:42:03,000 --> 04:42:16,000
Speaker 2: Very clear now. It's crazy. It's like an epiphany that we're having here together. So wait, I was never mind never mind that's why i have piece of paper keep a piece of paper i'm having a

1369
04:42:17,000 --> 04:43:35,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, notepad on your computer or whatever. Hey, listen, so another idea, right? Like an argument that you need to be professional to maximize eyes, professional Like I understand if people that opinion and they feel that like that's the way that need they need to conduct themselves but like i don't appreciate people saying like you need to do this everybody else needs to do this because i think this is the best way to forward the movement. You know what I mean? Like, I think a lot of hopefully is well-meaning, but also, again, remember, people could be out there to fucking poison your well one way or the other. Get you fighting amongst yourself, divide you so that you're not fucking figuring out new shit and making new cool shit, right? Like, we're here wasting four hours arguments and like I think it's right it could have it could have gone it But ultimately, yeah, we do fight about dumb shit. like, whatever, like that's not apparently exclusive to the 3D two way space. That happens in the fucking at least regular and in general, if not human beings, So don't get too sidetracked on that. don't want that kind of shit stay off. et cetera, et cetera.

1370
04:43:35,000 --> 04:43:40,000
Speaker 10: Let me throw a real quick pitch out. and then going back and forth about,

1371
04:43:43,000 --> 04:43:55,000
Speaker 2: else try and basically you know do something like DefCAD 2.0 you know who realistically should do that and who has the money to do something - I'm not bad. - Vega? - No, I wouldn't.

1372
04:43:56,000 --> 04:43:59,000
Speaker 4: got plenty from OnlyFans, but no. Elon. Don't say Elon.

1373
04:43:59,000 --> 04:44:13,000
Speaker 10: - No, I'm not gonna say Elon. to understand this. His mind is too complicated or convoluted to understand anything.

1374
04:44:13,000 --> 04:44:15,000
Speaker 4: PSA.

1375
04:44:17,000 --> 04:44:24,000
Speaker 1: - USA's holding company. - They won't do it. They don't even, bro, there's certain things that they don't, because they don't want to be attached.

1376
04:44:25,000 --> 04:44:26,000
Speaker 5: community.

1377
04:44:26,000 --> 04:44:35,000
Speaker 1: They're very careful. Hold on. Who's got the bass on their voice? That's butane. He's probably 20.

1378
04:44:36,000 --> 04:44:37,000
Speaker 2: 20 beers?

1379
04:44:38,000 --> 04:44:44,000
Speaker 4: - They were doing 80% and bailed out. They are not stepping.

1380
04:44:44,000 --> 04:44:58,000
Speaker 5: much as and God bless them right they want to put arms in the hands of very American or less of the marketing thing is no price is reflected they don't they will not dance on a legal line or throw however many lawyers they have

1381
04:44:58,000 --> 04:45:10,000
Speaker 1: and I defended it. They don't want to go the way of P80. That's the whole thing. It's a bad business deal for a company to actually go in on this. You've got to think of

1382
04:45:11,000 --> 04:45:50,000
Speaker 2: business-wise, like, first off, you're taking away a bit of money from their receiver business and their accessory business, because that's the big thing. As soon as I tell people I 3D print guns, first three things they ask me is, one, do they blow up in your hand? Two, can you make like full rifle receivers and stuff or pistol receivers? And then three, can you make stocks and hand guards and grips and all this other shit? I'm like, yeah. And that's the thing. You would be taking away from their business that they already have if they went to go push for the 3D2X. That's why they'll never be able to do that. that can back themselves or can we can get a conclusion

1383
04:45:54,000 --> 04:46:05,000
Speaker 4: to just back either a new company or back somebody that can just become a public figurehead. I have the company. I know what's going on. JSB Supply. JSB Supply. No, don't get me.

1384
04:46:06,000 --> 04:46:07,000
Speaker 3: It's Daisy Rogers.

1385
04:46:08,000 --> 04:46:10,000
Speaker 2: Daisy Rifles

1386
04:46:10,000 --> 04:46:13,000
Speaker 8: - I mean, Daisy, you know, Daisy Gale,

1387
04:46:13,000 --> 04:46:20,000
Speaker 10: FFL up though. That's the problem. They, they made rifles for a little bit and then. Yeah.

1388
04:46:21,000 --> 04:46:23,000
Speaker 4: - Yeah, Daisy.

1389
04:46:24,000 --> 04:47:02,000
Speaker 10: - You know what, they are crazy enough that they actually fight Yeah, guys, tap them in. We got to get them in. They love the community. I mean, my original pitch idea for OSA was trying to find a source of VC within the firearms world to use to back an effort to get more developers and whatnot pushed on the commercial side so that they could be the next Kellgrins. Well, without the cocaine, of course, but the next and Colts and Brownings. and the firearms world wants to touch it. I talked to someone who has a nine-fifth,

1390
04:47:03,000 --> 04:47:05,000
Speaker 1: He made his fortune in the

1391
04:47:07,000 --> 04:47:36,000
Speaker 10: not touch any firearms company with private equity. not want the company to get screwed over by the US going to be. whole idea of just firearms in general. even tell them it was about, you know, 3D printed stuff and trying to transition those people over to being legit. It was completely based on the fact that it was firearms related. So that's, that's It starts from the banks with that.

1392
04:47:37,000 --> 04:47:41,000
Speaker 3: banks? So with firearms, it really starts around the banks and stuff.

1393
04:47:42,000 --> 04:47:46,000
Speaker 8: Because once again, they're like, the tracking systems like,

1394
04:47:46,000 --> 04:47:51,000
Speaker 10: I forget if it was P80 or someone else was saying that, like they got a whole bunch of like credit

1395
04:47:51,000 --> 04:48:05,000
Speaker 3: chargebacks or holds on theirs every time they bought from a certain company. I don't know if it was Ralph, I know I saw the post, but it happens all the time. If you buy too many guns in a month.

1396
04:48:06,000 --> 04:48:09,000
Speaker 2: or like your your credit card will be put on hold it's just kind of why

1397
04:48:11,000 --> 04:48:16,000
Speaker 10: like say like three or four, it's a very low number. your card and like

1398
04:48:17,000 --> 04:48:18,000
Speaker 9: and porn are the two things that

1399
04:48:22,000 --> 04:48:23,000
Speaker 3: Processing those two things.

1400
04:48:30,000 --> 04:48:33,000
Speaker 10: And then like when the government says I'm not gonna help you on that

1401
04:48:33,000 --> 04:48:35,000
Speaker 3: second front.

1402
04:48:37,000 --> 04:48:39,000
Speaker 5: your money is instantly in limbo.

1403
04:48:40,000 --> 04:48:41,000
Speaker 10: anything with you to order like business

1404
04:48:42,000 --> 04:48:43,000
Speaker 1: - Well, I have a question.

1405
04:48:44,000 --> 04:48:48,000
Speaker 4: guys purchase your parts or whatever.

1406
04:48:48,000 --> 04:48:49,000
Speaker 10: are any of you doing

1407
04:48:49,000 --> 04:48:51,000
Speaker 4: with your own

1408
04:48:51,000 --> 04:48:57,000
Speaker 1: Oh, yeah, absolutely. My MasterCard, the American Express.

1409
04:48:57,000 --> 04:49:14,000
Speaker 4: The FBI knows my ass. So I'm the only one? Yeah, what are you talking about? Am I the only one that uses gift cards? Bro, they already know. Oh yeah, they already know. I buy them with cash. I buy them with cash. There you know, man. There's no point. Fun fact, if you buy your guns with...

1410
04:49:14,000 --> 04:49:18,000
Speaker 8: at FFLs, they are told to report to you.

1411
04:49:19,000 --> 04:49:20,000
Speaker 1: I buy gift cards and then

1412
04:49:21,000 --> 04:49:23,000
Speaker 2: - Yeah, if you use any of them.

1413
04:49:23,000 --> 04:49:29,000
Speaker 1: - They're gonna know because they're getting used to my address that I use, but at the same time--

1414
04:49:30,000 --> 04:49:33,000
Speaker 4: explain the flaw in your plan. To me, if anything, that

1415
04:49:35,000 --> 04:49:40,000
Speaker 3: yeah I mean I thought I always I thought the reason you tried to

1416
04:49:41,000 --> 04:49:50,000
Speaker 10: for something that wasn't a credit card or debit card is because they charged you 3% more a gun broker and that's why they want to eat how many orders are cash if you went there to pick it up directly

1417
04:49:51,000 --> 04:49:53,000
Speaker 8: Am I the only one waving at the satellites

1418
04:49:53,000 --> 04:50:01,000
Speaker 1: No, no, no. Complete order? Well, Zutang, it sounds like you dropped. the toilet bro yeah

1419
04:50:01,000 --> 04:50:03,000
Speaker 2: All right, take it easy.

1420
04:50:05,000 --> 04:50:09,000
Speaker 4: I have a question though.

1421
04:50:09,000 --> 04:50:16,000
Speaker 2: What is, what is our goal? are we just

1422
04:50:16,000 --> 04:50:17,000
Speaker 3: develop things because of

1423
04:50:18,000 --> 04:50:19,000
Speaker 2: but

1424
04:50:19,000 --> 04:50:27,000
Speaker 10: Is there a desire to change the law through defiance and disobedience,

1425
04:50:27,000 --> 04:50:34,000
Speaker 2: or is it through the legalistic bureaucracy of going through the court systems and everything and hoping one

1426
04:50:39,000 --> 04:50:41,000
Speaker 4: and bring the case to get the NFA turned out.

1427
04:50:42,000 --> 04:51:03,000
Speaker 1: - I'm glad you brought them up. Everyone kind of has a different goal and together we make Like my goal coming into this, I just want to I just wanted to build some cool shit. I didn't give a fuck about the politics or any of that. But there are people who are focused that that's where that's where I'm at that and that's why I wanted

1428
04:51:03,000 --> 04:51:05,000
Speaker 2: this kind of because I don't think I've

1429
04:51:06,000 --> 04:51:10,000
Speaker 1: talk to this many people that are active in the community.

1430
04:51:11,000 --> 04:51:12,000
Speaker 4: a unified

1431
04:51:12,000 --> 04:51:21,000
Speaker 2: to change the laws because like, I mean, I'm not going to fed post right now. Cause I'm not trying to go back to jail again, but like, you know, I, I,

1432
04:51:22,000 --> 04:51:25,000
Speaker 1: - I just got arrested last weekend because they,

1433
04:51:25,000 --> 04:51:33,000
Speaker 2: I had a glock switch. I had a head. Humbleton's fidget switch on the back of my fucking. Oh, you're that guy. Oh my God. I saw that.

1434
04:51:35,000 --> 04:51:42,000
Speaker 4: - They got arrested because they thought but... You know, I do this because I'm trying to

1435
04:51:45,000 --> 04:51:47,000
Speaker 10: strive for a freer America, I've

1436
04:51:48,000 --> 04:51:51,000
Speaker 1: free and seceded Texas, but

1437
04:51:52,000 --> 04:51:55,000
Speaker 2: when I was in jail, every single fucker that I'd

1438
04:51:55,000 --> 04:52:00,000
Speaker 1: I talked to, I told them, oh yeah, I'm here for a 3D printer gun. What, what, what? I spent

1439
04:52:00,000 --> 04:52:10,000
Speaker 4: the entirety of my three days in jail, telling people, catalog, printers, settings, what slicers to use. Like I talked to probably close to like 300 different people

1440
04:52:13,000 --> 04:52:24,000
Speaker 1: I go out anywhere, you know, and they see a 3D printed gun. They all start talking to me about it. I spread the word to every human that I can possibly fucking see. That's awesome. I also go to...

1441
04:52:25,000 --> 04:52:30,000
Speaker 2: I will say places that are Geppetto's and I tell people, Hey, you can 3d print.

1442
04:52:31,000 --> 04:53:48,000
Speaker 4: knowing what you have because at this point I want everyone to have a gun I don't care I'm the I'm the machine gun in a fucking vending machine guy so like I'm just wondering is anyone else like that or y'all just you know having fun Devin because I mean is this like the part where we all see what our perspectives are and why we do it because I'm all for it I'm good to get my perspective on that because I'm kind of mixed in the thing I'll go second um I that. We can be openly defiant all we want all day long until the cows come home, but it's not going to change laws. It's not going to keep people, the ATF and bashing in our doors. That being said, that being said, also a kind of there is a prospect to like the idea of like making this so proliferative it seems completely anti-gunners to try to regulate it. So that's part of me. Yeah.

1443
04:53:48,000 --> 04:54:12,000
Speaker 2: for a lot of people is probably like a more common ideology. And then you'll find other, you know, differing things based on who you ask. I, I agree on that. My thought is not only the idea of pushing for legal change and, you know, the concept of proliferation is defiance. I also think.

1444
04:54:13,000 --> 04:54:49,000
Speaker 10: that given the fact that the entire firearms world barring maybe caltech is pretty much stagnant. The next big innovator with regards to anything gun related is going to come from the gun cad world simply because the limitations that they've got simply because of the creativity that they've got to put here. And I very much believe that the best way to normalize gun cad would be to try and figure out a way to get these people more officially and commercially represented within the world of guns, because by doing that, you then normalize

1445
04:54:50,000 --> 04:54:52,000
Speaker 1: you then normalize the entire

1446
04:54:52,000 --> 04:54:53,000
Speaker 10: subculture and

1447
04:54:54,000 --> 04:54:56,000
Speaker 1: instead of it becoming so niche that it

1448
04:54:56,000 --> 04:55:03,000
Speaker 10: isolated by the media, it then becomes something that people like the NRA and Nagger and

1449
04:55:03,000 --> 04:55:05,000
Speaker 3: The FPC are forced

1450
04:55:05,000 --> 04:55:19,000
Speaker 10: up support for whether they want to or not, because as a result, it becomes part of the greater pro-gun movement and you can't just sideline it as a niche thing anymore. That's my personal opinion and why I try and push so hard for what I do.

1451
04:55:19,000 --> 04:55:24,000
Speaker 1: with the OSA stuff, because I genuinely think it's the best thing we can do.

1452
04:55:25,000 --> 04:55:32,000
Speaker 10: make it real impact. I like that. I mean, for me personally, it's, um, it's getting

1453
04:55:33,000 --> 04:55:36,000
Speaker 1: the gun industry at

1454
04:55:36,000 --> 04:55:47,000
Speaker 10: sitting right now? of mil spec are there. There's a million in one. How many companies do you know makes them superfluous lower? And that's all they make.

1455
04:55:48,000 --> 04:55:59,000
Speaker 9: make AR-15 lower. make the best AR-15 lower. They just make an AR-15 lower that's .005 plus/minus out of

1456
04:56:00,000 --> 04:56:10,000
Speaker 5: Yeah, I love Anderson. I know what they do. people out of that safe And I'm not sure if you have

1457
04:56:11,000 --> 04:56:26,000
Speaker 10: for 15 years he's 35 he's built up a good family can start one of these businesses and do nothing and you see it all the time. Business starts up, they do good, someone makes something better, and these businesses go down all the time. We see it over and over again.

1458
04:56:27,000 --> 04:56:29,000
Speaker 1: over and over again.

1459
04:56:30,000 --> 04:56:34,000
Speaker 9: The AK-15 and the AK-47 are the standard to this day, but there's…

1460
04:56:35,000 --> 04:57:01,000
Speaker 10: CMMG are a wonderful example. They make excellent, excellent stuff, and they push the boundary line. But you know what they're failing at? Proprietary, proprietary, proprietary. I thought they were failing at keeping their website secure. Probably that too. But this is what I'm saying. These people who have these great innovations, the first thing they do is they chain the door, and they're like,

1461
04:57:03,000 --> 04:57:12,000
Speaker 3: They literally pull up the ladder, any other analogy you can, and that's where what we should be doing should be coming out and attacking them. Like the dissident?

1462
04:57:12,000 --> 04:57:19,000
Speaker 2: - Do you feel like Who wants to hear it?

1463
04:57:20,000 --> 04:57:48,000
Speaker 10: - Go ahead, I think I've done like 3% of it. - This is, And I'd like to reiterate, I am the only other person who knows this story because I was the person who got Durwood and Muzzy connected after they both got booted from the DMV. to Keybase. I got them connected. - Underwood had brought the WTF nine back. That's what he was trying to push for because he had still been developing it at the time of

1464
04:57:49,000 --> 04:57:52,000
Speaker 1: he had left previously. Because remember, Durwood was gone for like

1465
04:57:53,000 --> 04:58:44,000
Speaker 10: maybe four years. I get the two of them together. Muzzy is, you know, Muzzy's from a very well-off Middle Eastern family. I think they're the richest family in Iraq, and he had a firearms background, and he had... security logistics. So I said, okay, you've got a very highly modular, you know, nice pistol caliber carbine. You have a and the resources to make this commercially. How about we work together and try and use this to make a gun that was designed by the GunCAD people, a commercial gun, and mainstream the greater movement so that more people can do it. we can stop being this niche subculture that everyone, you know, oh yeah, their stuff blows up. Oh yeah.

1466
04:58:45,000 --> 04:58:49,000
Speaker 1: only one shot before it breaks. Oh yeah, Cody Wilson's the face

1467
04:58:50,000 --> 04:59:34,000
Speaker 10: So the Mod 9 gets developed. I still have marketing for the Mod 9 sitting on the other side of the office. We kept going back and forth. I told Muzzy, we need to do two things. Number one, you need to work with FFL or we need to get an US to produce this stuff. We need to get a shop situated. We need the necessary injection molding hardware because this was before MJF became prominent and you could now like v3 did that with the Tangara at shot 2024 looks perfect looks beautiful that realistically is the right way to go if you're trying to do small production

1468
04:59:34,000 --> 04:59:41,000
Speaker 2: like what he's doing with the vz61 lowers we need to get the injection molding stuff we need to get

1469
04:59:41,000 --> 04:59:44,000
Speaker 10: and we need to get a booth at SHOT Show.

1470
04:59:46,000 --> 04:59:47,000
Speaker 1: if we don't get a booth at shot,

1471
04:59:47,000 --> 05:00:00,000
Speaker 10: will never get any commercial appeal whatsoever. And it will not get picked up by distributors or dealers, and it will be a complete flop and failure. viewing it on Forgotten Weapons in a couple years.

1472
05:00:00,000 --> 05:00:09,000
Speaker 4: that the guys who were able to get tables at SHOT Show ruined it for everybody. Well, yeah, Freitech specifically ruined it.

1473
05:00:09,000 --> 05:00:27,000
Speaker 10: He couldn't stop being, he couldn't stop and acting crazy. And that soured the pot for everyone. That's why when V went to shot last year, I was there with him helping push the SKX and the Tangarach He had to change his mind.

1474
05:00:28,000 --> 05:00:32,000
Speaker 1: and basically go under a pseudonym because if he had gone

1475
05:00:32,000 --> 05:00:41,000
Speaker 10: they would have booted him. That's how much well poisoning Freitech ended up doing But this is, this is like 20 years.

1476
05:00:44,000 --> 05:00:45,000
Speaker 1: or any of the well poisoning sap.

1477
05:00:50,000 --> 05:00:53,000
Speaker 2: when me and Derwood were beefing in 2021?

1478
05:00:54,000 --> 05:01:04,000
Speaker 10: I think this would have been because This was the Mod 9. He hadn't done the Cobra 9 or the KC9 yet. This is the Mod 9.

1479
05:01:04,000 --> 05:01:06,000
Speaker 3: sign up and everything. I actually had to

1480
05:01:08,000 --> 05:01:09,000
Speaker 5: lawyers reached out.

1481
05:01:10,000 --> 05:01:11,000
Speaker 3: That's later in the story.

1482
05:01:11,000 --> 05:02:44,000
Speaker 10: So, all right. So I tell him these, we need to do Muzzy in his infinite wisdom says, no, actually, we're not going to do either of these things. Number one, we're going to make these in Romania at a place. get in Romania, and then we're going to export them from mania to the US. And I, you know, sort of think from, okay, we're only going to be able to import these things as pistols, like the and whatnot. That's a terrible move, but okay. And then he says to SHOT Show, oh no, we're not going to take it to SHOT Show. I'm going to go and reach out to my who worked with me at the private military company that I ran when I was in Iraq, doing contracting work for the U.S. government. one where you know we kidnapped a couple of people and uh torture you know we got the us military to kidnap a couple people and torture them It's on Wikipedia, by the way. You can look the company up. He didn't actually say that part, obviously, but it's public knowledge. And we're going to get Iraqi police contracts. We're not going to go for the U.S. commission. We're going to get a lot of money. that's how we're going to make money on this. Any questions so far? Because we're about to get to the fun part. I'm trying to keep up. Okay. we continue to develop the Mod 9 through this whole thing.

1483
05:02:47,000 --> 05:02:48,000
Speaker 3: through V1.

1484
05:02:49,000 --> 05:03:06,000
Speaker 10: I think we get to V3 where we get rid of the side mounted, the flapper extractor. you know, the external extractor. And I then get a call from from Muzzy at about the middle of the night.

1485
05:03:09,000 --> 05:03:12,000
Speaker 3: Leslie reaches out to me and he says that he is currently

1486
05:03:15,000 --> 05:03:20,000
Speaker 1: ATF are currently rifling through everything in his house. So I asked him what

1487
05:03:22,000 --> 05:03:49,000
Speaker 10: I went to the Romanian to get all of my paperwork in order. everything legal. He tried to do everything legally in Romania. And the policeman was apparently kind enough to tell him, well, actually, no, you're not getting your firearms production license to the Romanian ATF are raiding your house, so you might want to get back there. So he then went back to his house and watched them take all his printers, everything he had,

1488
05:03:50,000 --> 05:03:59,000
Speaker 1: his computers, etc, etc. And he was then taken and they interrogated him for like 24 hours. It was in it was a Romanian news story.

1489
05:04:00,000 --> 05:04:05,000
Speaker 4: He then attempted to use, in the resulting legal case, the irrigation.

1490
05:04:07,000 --> 05:04:14,000
Speaker 10: allegedly gotten as proof that he was manufacturing these for commercial purposes and thus

1491
05:04:14,000 --> 05:04:16,000
Speaker 9: they were stifling him because

1492
05:04:16,000 --> 05:04:27,000
Speaker 10: and this is my personal opinion, I have no way to prove it, the only Romanian gun companies that exist are Cougar and Romar. Both are owned by the Romanian government, that what Muzzy was attempting

1493
05:04:28,000 --> 05:04:29,000
Speaker 1: is monopoly.

1494
05:04:30,000 --> 05:04:32,000
Speaker 10: you know, Eastern

1495
05:04:34,000 --> 05:04:36,000
Speaker 5: don't do that.

1496
05:04:37,000 --> 05:05:33,000
Speaker 10: So then And I'll never forget this because this was the moment I knew that everything had gone haywire, irredeemably haywire. Muzzy then sends me a picture of the message the guy wearing a saying, "Oh, I've got COVID." And then the guy dropped off the face of the earth and was never seen again. So, entire mod nine thing became all began to be dead and buried And then we fast forward to two more years and Durwood's made the KC9. He's gone and documentary. He went to the first Makers match and outshot everybody with it. It was running smooth. It was running high. It looked just... And then I have a friend

1497
05:05:33,000 --> 05:05:35,000
Speaker 9: reaches out to me and says that

1498
05:05:36,000 --> 05:05:38,000
Speaker 3: trying to do some firearms

1499
05:05:38,000 --> 05:06:02,000
Speaker 10: and he's got seven figures in VC. So I broach a meeting between my friend, Muzzy, Durwood, and myself regarding trying to figure something out. And because I'm like, okay, it's been two years. This is an opportunity for us to salvage this whole thing. So we have a conversation. My friend basically lays it out.

1500
05:06:03,000 --> 05:06:04,000
Speaker 9: we'd like to get an FFL.

1501
05:06:05,000 --> 05:06:12,000
Speaker 10: We'd like to produce this thing commercially. You know, we give you X amount of money in exchange. You know, we have a license.

1502
05:06:12,000 --> 05:06:15,000
Speaker 9: design we can produce commercially we get a

1503
05:06:15,000 --> 05:06:25,000
Speaker 10: etc. etc. etc. I'm all for it. Derwood is all for it, because this is the light at the end of the tunnel.

1504
05:06:26,000 --> 05:06:36,000
Speaker 1: What happens next? kept a closed source and didn't want to release info for the boat or something?

1505
05:06:36,000 --> 05:06:40,000
Speaker 10: This happened before the whole Bolt release thing. This was before

1506
05:06:42,000 --> 05:06:44,000
Speaker 1: OK. No idea, bro. Keep going.

1507
05:06:44,000 --> 05:06:49,000
Speaker 4: Muzzy looks the gift horse in the

1508
05:06:50,000 --> 05:06:51,000
Speaker 5: tells him, no, we're not

1509
05:06:55,000 --> 05:06:58,000
Speaker 1: and push this commercial. No, we're not going to do that.

1510
05:06:58,000 --> 05:07:15,000
Speaker 10: we're just going to sell the parts kits for this thing and make money that way. For the Casey. I flipped out. I think I flipped out at Derwood. I flipped out at a bunch of people over that because

1511
05:07:18,000 --> 05:07:19,000
Speaker 1: a second chance that no,

1512
05:07:20,000 --> 05:08:01,000
Speaker 10: gotten when, you know, in something like this. And he literally walked away from it and threw it away. And what was the rationale? I don't know what his Chanel was. I mean, he's right. It never made any sense to me. He had the opportunity to commercialize a gun. And this was before anyone had done any 3D printed transition over to the commercial market before anyone tried to be like a legit FFL saying, printed lowers like you know what's going on nowadays this is before he disappeared or after you know this is well before he disappeared because remember that the kc9 was before the rtt

1513
05:08:01,000 --> 05:08:17,000
Speaker 1: before Mussy's, I think, what was it? Like MG9 or whatever? I thought the KC9 came out for that. It wasn't that when it first released you're saying it was way before no, I'm saying like right after that but before the parts kit

1514
05:08:17,000 --> 05:08:19,000
Speaker 9: out because they,

1515
05:08:19,000 --> 05:08:22,000
Speaker 10: and Derwood decided to go with the

1516
05:08:22,000 --> 05:08:24,000
Speaker 2: Kitts route.

1517
05:08:30,000 --> 05:09:03,000
Speaker 10: like four years. Cause that was like 21 probably. I said 2020. Yeah. It was 2022. Yeah. It was like 2022. Yeah. It was the same year the, the vice documentary came out. So Muzzy turned that down and that was a fun, you know, that was basically it at that point. There's, there was no way we could do anything commercial with it after that, especially after Derwood decided to go and sell the bolt as a parts kid.

1518
05:09:04,000 --> 05:09:09,000
Speaker 1: I don't know if you're not too many to drink, but maybe-- Masi...

1519
05:09:11,000 --> 05:09:12,000
Speaker 4: disappeared

1520
05:09:12,000 --> 05:09:52,000
Speaker 1: and then come back... No, Mussi didn't disappear. Mussi was still in wait for GCI the entire time. But he got disappeared through the Romanian government thinking that he was trying to take money away from their monopoly. Well, no, he didn't get disappeared, but his ability to do any dev work or, you know, do anything was basically hampered because they seized his computers, any printable stuff that he had printed. Okay, disappeared in the sense that he just stopped posting. Yeah, he didn't stop posting. He still had his phone, he still had access to Element the entire time, but he couldn't because they seized all the computers. - Stop debbing. Okay, but then after that, he

1521
05:09:53,000 --> 05:10:28,000
Speaker 10: back around? He came back around because I believe Derwood gave him earlier, the earlier revisions of the mod some of the other stuff that he'd made and he still had the demilled copies of the stuff that he'd made on thingiverse so he still had those to work off of so it's not like he lost everything but with regards to what we were working on he did sure like so that's what was up with the whole what was up with the whole bowl being

1522
05:10:29,000 --> 05:10:35,000
Speaker 1: a fucking two-year-old tack welded together, and then not trying to release the specs and overcharging.

1523
05:10:36,000 --> 05:10:54,000
Speaker 10: - Oh God. - That was after we had sort of split up on the whole commercial endeavor. They had committed to trying to do the parts kits. And despite the fact that I iterated very clearly, it's not going to sell, aren't going to consume it, you need to try and sell these

1524
05:10:56,000 --> 05:11:23,000
Speaker 1: I guess Derwood went along with it and well, we started, kind of nothing happened. Well, they would have, but I think bought a shitload of them if he would have made some quality and then released everything open source. And people would have came to him if anybody would have tried to release... Bolt because everybody respected him. at the time, you know what I mean?

1525
05:11:24,000 --> 05:11:31,000
Speaker 10: Yeah, he got more and more curmudgeonly as time went by. And then I remember it was like last year when

1526
05:11:31,000 --> 05:11:38,000
Speaker 1: he was in GCI and then he posted his infamous goodbye message and him and SGB

1527
05:11:39,000 --> 05:11:41,000
Speaker 10: off the face of the planet.

1528
05:11:42,000 --> 05:11:55,000
Speaker 1: - I kind of feel bad about that It was partly my fault, but dude, he Aren't you the one making the KC9 - I was working a version of my own, and yeah, I made one.

1529
05:11:57,000 --> 05:11:59,000
Speaker 2: I was going to produce them. I was like, dude,

1530
05:12:04,000 --> 05:12:23,000
Speaker 10: everything else. Anyways, I went through SG and I talked to Derwood and their gatekeeping I mean,

1531
05:12:24,000 --> 05:12:27,000
Speaker 1: Why not open source it? Why not? I just I don't.

1532
05:12:27,000 --> 05:12:29,000
Speaker 4: understand his reasoning.

1533
05:12:29,000 --> 05:12:31,000
Speaker 1: I mean, I tried to push

1534
05:12:32,000 --> 05:12:58,000
Speaker 10: V4 of the mark of 9 and push that as the commercial one, not as the commercial, as the open source one with modularity and everything, and then try and push the KC9 to be like a commercial gun because you know, better. I mean, the magnet stuff was stupid, but it was objectively shooting than the Mod 9 was. - If he had done that, then that would be.

1535
05:13:00,000 --> 05:13:02,000
Speaker 3: and we would be able to

1536
05:13:03,000 --> 05:13:30,000
Speaker 2: and further along than we are now. - Zyra, actually, I do remember talking to Derwood and Muzzy specifically about, or only when the Cobra Nine first came out, and that was what they told me specifically, was the Cobra Nine would be, system or yes yeah whatever it wouldn't be open source but the mod 9v4 would be what will be open source and that's what they're going to be spending their time That never panned out anywhere. That's one of those things I wish I could have,

1537
05:13:31,000 --> 05:13:47,000
Speaker 10: going with that but well yeah i guess it's fun to hear that one ended you mentioned the cobra nine that that's where the very final part of this whole thing comes from because it was Actually, let me check the inbox. I still have access to the site, don't I? Let me check the

1538
05:13:48,000 --> 05:13:51,000
Speaker 3: - Yeah. - But I got that.

1539
05:13:52,000 --> 05:13:58,000
Speaker 4: news about this subject. Oh no. It's not bad at all.

1540
05:13:59,000 --> 05:14:02,000
Speaker 1: - All right, well, hold on, what was it? Ah, there it is. - Why do you sound like this?

1541
05:14:03,000 --> 05:14:06,000
Speaker 3: -

1542
05:14:06,000 --> 05:14:20,000
Speaker 1: Okay, here it is. You've been drinking, bro. fucking tired, man. I feel you, man. I've been here for like fucking...

1543
05:14:20,000 --> 05:14:32,000
Speaker 4: hours. I'm dying, bro. Ah, there it is. Um... Has it been that long already? Bro, five hours. National... Ah, yes. The header of the email says, quote,

1544
05:14:33,000 --> 05:14:36,000
Speaker 10: logistics, violation of Colt's manufacturing

1545
05:14:36,000 --> 05:14:40,000
Speaker 1: IP holding company LLC's intellectual property rights.

1546
05:14:42,000 --> 05:14:46,000
Speaker 10: And yes, I did. I double-checked. This was an email from

1547
05:14:46,000 --> 05:14:51,000
Speaker 1: both lawyers regarding the fact that the gun was called the Cobra nine.

1548
05:14:51,000 --> 05:15:06,000
Speaker 10: the King Cobra 9. They got a letter from Colt? Yeah, I got the letter from Colt because NSL had pretty much been emptied by Muzzy and Derwood at this point.

1549
05:15:07,000 --> 05:15:08,000
Speaker 3: it's a good place to showcase projects

1550
05:15:09,000 --> 05:15:13,000
Speaker 1: but they abandoned it. You said, I mean, essentially I can't,

1551
05:15:14,000 --> 05:15:22,000
Speaker 10: anything that NSL has done since like 2022. Derwood and Muzzy what happened.

1552
05:15:25,000 --> 05:15:29,000
Speaker 1: It was now That was Muzzy's company in Romania.

1553
05:15:30,000 --> 05:15:36,000
Speaker 10: going to be behind the production of the Mod 9 and later the case

1554
05:15:36,000 --> 05:15:41,000
Speaker 1: Gotcha. That... the fucking Romanian government shut down...

1555
05:15:42,000 --> 05:15:44,000
Speaker 9: - Yeah, and again, I can't,

1556
05:15:44,000 --> 05:15:50,000
Speaker 10: I cannot, I won't iterate. There's no way that I can prove that. - Makes sense.

1557
05:15:51,000 --> 05:15:54,000
Speaker 1: outcome to me.

1558
05:15:54,000 --> 05:15:58,000
Speaker 10: European countries are not good places to do business.

1559
05:15:58,000 --> 05:16:03,000
Speaker 1: So Muzzy was never in the US, just Derwin? No, Muzzy was never in the US. He lives in

1560
05:16:05,000 --> 05:16:11,000
Speaker 10: He never, I don't think he ever came to the end. the US. I think he's come to the US before.

1561
05:16:11,000 --> 05:16:22,000
Speaker 1: I've always heard of their names together like they were partners or something. They were, and then I think they sort of split up eventually, and Muzzy tried to design his own PCC based around...

1562
05:16:22,000 --> 05:17:39,000
Speaker 10: mod 9v4 and then Derwood I think is still designing his own thing. Muzzy's still around. I'll talk to him off and on. Yeah Muzzy's a bit of occasionally, but he's chill. I would never do business with him again, not after he burned me twice, but I have no clue. You're saying this guy is the son of the richest person in Iraq? No, I'm saying that he's from an extended greater family in Iraq that is very well off. I believe it is among the richest, if not is, hence the name Muzzy well no that's that's related to his his name name but I'll let people do a little more digging on that if they really want to know again it's There was a whole Romanian news article on it. I'm sure someone will post it. I'm sure someone will. I mean, I hate to derail the whole thing, but I have been waiting for about four years to tell that story to somebody. it to ag but he never had me on one of his freaking casts somebody told me that story was it

1563
05:17:39,000 --> 05:17:46,000
Speaker 2: It was a long time ago. I've heard bits and pieces of this, but that's interesting, actually.

1564
05:17:49,000 --> 05:17:55,000
Speaker 1: brother. It's an old story and it's not like it matters anymore. Doing stuff.

1565
05:17:57,000 --> 05:18:03,000
Speaker 4: - It does matter. up yesterday evening.

1566
05:18:04,000 --> 05:18:05,000
Speaker 1: would because he wanted

1567
05:18:06,000 --> 05:18:07,000
Speaker 2: to uh

1568
05:18:08,000 --> 05:18:19,000
Speaker 10: kind of work on his latest project, which is... It's been delayed because they're waiting on the patent office, apparently. Not again. Hey, look, man.

1569
05:18:21,000 --> 05:18:23,000
Speaker 9: don't know anything about it.

1570
05:18:24,000 --> 05:18:30,000
Speaker 10: is what I just told you and that it's coming and he's gonna be shooting it at the Winter Wasteland.

1571
05:18:31,000 --> 05:18:32,000
Speaker 3: - I know exactly.

1572
05:18:32,000 --> 05:18:35,000
Speaker 2: because he mentioned it after I called him after shot.

1573
05:18:36,000 --> 05:18:41,000
Speaker 1: Because I'd called him before shot. got the KC9 and the Mod 9.

1574
05:18:43,000 --> 05:18:59,000
Speaker 10: "Could we maybe try and do something with Ian McCollum?" Because I think the whole story here would be interesting for Forgotten Weapons. Oh well. I think it's a delayed blowback 9mm.

1575
05:19:00,000 --> 05:19:04,000
Speaker 1: It looks like it's using kinda his same bolt pattern he made for

1576
05:19:05,000 --> 05:19:43,000
Speaker 10: three generations after the RTT9. Bearing delayed blowback like using springs and ball bearings something like that. That's not the worst way to design a delayed blowback - Yeah, I'm pretty sure I saw someone drop some pre-screens of that. I highly doubt he's going to be able to patent it though so you'll never see it. No, he'll patent it. There's already a patent. There's a ball bearing 9mm already. No, he'll patent it, just he won't really get anywhere with it. Who's going to work with him commercially at this point?

1577
05:19:43,000 --> 05:19:47,000
Speaker 3: I mean there's already someone who

1578
05:19:48,000 --> 05:19:50,000
Speaker 7: I think Micah,

1579
05:19:51,000 --> 05:19:59,000
Speaker 10: I can't remember or it was hops, but one of them. Yeah, the ball bearing delayed thing

1580
05:19:59,000 --> 05:20:01,000
Speaker 9: thing. Very expensive

1581
05:20:09,000 --> 05:20:14,000
Speaker 10: that makes the Scorpion Evo upper that's delayed blowback?

1582
05:20:15,000 --> 05:20:18,000
Speaker 1: using-- it's real simple.

1583
05:20:19,000 --> 05:20:55,000
Speaker 10: design Nexus yeah Nexus Nexus is bald - I, yeah. - Good lord. - I know. that's what delayed isn't it or something I don't remember yeah I think so oh gosh well I mean that's that's what I'm glad Karaoka and get the Tangara out on the floor for shot 24. I'm making assumptions though. I don't know for sure. I just looked at the videos and pictures of it

1584
05:20:55,000 --> 05:20:57,000
Speaker 7: not, you know.

1585
05:20:59,000 --> 05:21:00,000
Speaker 10: probably what he's working on at this

1586
05:21:00,000 --> 05:21:02,000
Speaker 1: Again, I, I,

1587
05:21:02,000 --> 05:21:06,000
Speaker 3: give him a call, but he's, he wants to do his own thing.

1588
05:21:07,000 --> 05:21:11,000
Speaker 10: anything. That's all on him, I guess.

1589
05:21:12,000 --> 05:21:22,000
Speaker 1: - Dude, I was always, with him like at least starting out I was polite and nice. I actually looked up to the dude because he was like one of the people

1590
05:21:22,000 --> 05:21:24,000
Speaker 10: I really watched and followed

1591
05:21:25,000 --> 05:21:30,000
Speaker 1: He's not a very nice person. I will be completely honest

1592
05:21:31,000 --> 05:21:58,000
Speaker 10: a good deal of the credibility that I had 2020, 2021, before I started lurking and everyone forgot I existed, came from keeping and getting him working with Muzzy and Deving again. He was absolutely instrumental. At that point, he was arguably one of the few people who had the credibility of someone like Stark or Ivan. And then he just sort of

1593
05:21:59,000 --> 05:22:03,000
Speaker 3: - I love it. Thank you.

1594
05:22:06,000 --> 05:22:32,000
Speaker 1: Looks like killer wants to be a speaker again. You're able to speak. Anybody else have any last questions before? So we got a Raptor. - In the middle of the hour, We beat Joe Rogan's records, bro. The FBI is going to listen to it.

1595
05:22:36,000 --> 05:22:38,000
Speaker 4: - Okay, guys, okay, they're on our way to our house.

1596
05:22:38,000 --> 05:22:39,000
Speaker 5: now.

1597
05:22:40,000 --> 05:22:43,000
Speaker 10: I like the tech security. Dude, that guy was awesome.

1598
05:22:45,000 --> 05:22:50,000
Speaker 4: I want to talk to him again. I want to talk to him again. Yeah, Rev Pup Tentacle.

1599
05:22:54,000 --> 05:22:56,000
Speaker 1: - Okay.

1600
05:22:56,000 --> 05:23:15,000
Speaker 4: - No, what we need is-- - Danny posted him on-- - Wild Arms is trying to do that, right? - Hold on, hold on. Did you ever hear the story? There's a guy in New Zealand a cruise missile. Okay, we're on like tangent 95. We gotta call it. Yeah, this is insane, bro. Is Unseen gonna speak?

1601
05:23:18,000 --> 05:23:21,000
Speaker 2: - I have one last question.

1602
05:23:22,000 --> 05:23:25,000
Speaker 4: I'm not important, dude. Say your thing.

1603
05:23:26,000 --> 05:23:29,000
Speaker 2: Oh, my simple question is, I just want to know,

1604
05:23:32,000 --> 05:23:38,000
Speaker 1: He is. Zoopie - Can we just admit that you are, bro,

1605
05:23:42,000 --> 05:23:43,000
Speaker 2: - What do you mean?

1606
05:23:44,000 --> 05:23:47,000
Speaker 1: I don't know where my dick's been. - I talked to you on a fucking FaceTime.

1607
05:23:48,000 --> 05:24:02,000
Speaker 2: boy. I know who you are, motherfucker. Jerry. Jerry. I'm a black man. What are you talking about, bro? I smell the bus. FDM, you're as black as ivory.

1608
05:24:04,000 --> 05:24:10,000
Speaker 10: I'm not sure. Okay, but I'm super curious. Unseen, what did you need? I found the messages that

1609
05:24:13,000 --> 05:24:17,000
Speaker 2: I think. It was from...

1610
05:24:18,000 --> 05:24:27,000
Speaker 10: And we lost him. The world will never know. Ah, shit. So I think I can't read the messages in the episode.

1611
05:24:28,000 --> 05:24:33,000
Speaker 1: losing my ability to speak.

1612
05:24:35,000 --> 05:24:43,000
Speaker 2: I am on a Samsung, yes. Do you know how to half screen? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. If you, you

1613
05:24:44,000 --> 05:24:47,000
Speaker 10: turn a Twitter app into half the screen, you can open the other

1614
05:24:47,000 --> 05:24:51,000
Speaker 3: underneath.

1615
05:24:51,000 --> 05:24:55,000
Speaker 1: This man said half screen. All right. So I mean,

1616
05:24:58,000 --> 05:25:05,000
Speaker 10: is that it's lower muzzle rise in MP5, weighs less than three pounds completely built,

1617
05:25:08,000 --> 05:25:11,000
Speaker 4: It is a straight pull,

1618
05:25:13,000 --> 05:25:16,000
Speaker 5: Yeah.

1619
05:25:17,000 --> 05:25:19,000
Speaker 1: I'm getting Tangara flashbacks.

1620
05:25:19,000 --> 05:25:30,000
Speaker 10: It's a ball bearing delay. - Probably just like, Would it be in the same typical RTT Probably.

1621
05:25:37,000 --> 05:25:46,000
Speaker 3: I'm pretty sure that we're going to be able to do that. So it might be something similar to that.

1622
05:25:46,000 --> 05:25:55,000
Speaker 1: - This man's over here spilling the beans about some crucial secret problems. - What I'm looking at is fastback on each side.

1623
05:25:55,000 --> 05:25:56,000
Speaker 2: There's no

1624
05:25:57,000 --> 05:26:22,000
Speaker 10: for anything like what you're describing. It's no flapper delay, it's no roller delay. Well, he's probably done that on purpose, you think? Maybe not. I don't know these dudes' intentions, man. I'm just telling you what I know. Damn, now I got to know. Well, then I recommend calling him. He's a nice guy. He'll talk to you. Oh, God. As soon as he hears that. DM or Chris. All right, well, just tell them it's somebody.

1625
05:26:23,000 --> 05:26:26,000
Speaker 1: and then you want me to call him, I'll call him.

1626
05:26:26,000 --> 05:26:31,000
Speaker 4: - Not now. - We just want one more day. - No, not now, and I'll call it.

1627
05:26:32,000 --> 05:26:39,000
Speaker 10: You know the shitty thing about it is, is even though like we had that giant fight, I never

1628
05:26:39,000 --> 05:26:40,000
Speaker 1: respect for Derwood.

1629
05:26:42,000 --> 05:26:49,000
Speaker 10: right here. Out of respect for Durwood, I never met And he's still - Have you ever met a guy

1630
05:26:52,000 --> 05:27:16,000
Speaker 1: KC9 that the bolt was used in. The one that Zoopy was flaunting in all the first videos we put out. That was your shit. Gosh. I wonder if that shoots as good as the Dermwoods one. The only thing on that KC9 that was still mine...

1631
05:27:18,000 --> 05:27:26,000
Speaker 10: the rear plate or the rear cover and like the grip the rest had to be like reprinted it was all fucked up

1632
05:27:26,000 --> 05:27:41,000
Speaker 1: It sat around for so long and got around. I never even Never even shot it. I don't know. What's up with that phenomenon of people building guns that they never shoot, bro?

1633
05:27:43,000 --> 05:27:45,000
Speaker 2: to build it, to have it.

1634
05:27:45,000 --> 05:27:54,000
Speaker 10: Yeah, for me it's not the shooting or target practicing or anything like that. For me, I like to engineer and design. I like to machine.

1635
05:27:55,000 --> 05:28:01,000
Speaker 1: build it but you know I don't know I can actually relate to that no

1636
05:28:02,000 --> 05:28:03,000
Speaker 4: I've designed and released

1637
05:28:04,000 --> 05:28:18,000
Speaker 10: platforms that I never print or hold that beta testers tested and put all the rounds through for me. There's nothing about... That's the story of Karaoka. Karaoka, I don't think

1638
05:28:26,000 --> 05:28:49,000
Speaker 1: - Arioka has never so much as seen an urate Yeah, I can attest to that. I had some beers with him, cool guy. He did shoot a - Guru Tao for the first time here, yeah. - Yeah. - I don't think it worked though. Hey G, do you have any information on that?

1639
05:28:50,000 --> 05:28:52,000
Speaker 3: Not really.

1640
05:28:53,000 --> 05:29:09,000
Speaker 1: I'm working on. I may I may be making a Irritable, but I'm not sure how he feels about me now since you know I'm a So he may not want to. me to make a boat for it. Karaoke doesn't care. You can just stop being a Cody Dick writer, by the way. In fact,

1641
05:29:12,000 --> 05:29:14,000
Speaker 2: got a little rumor for shot.

1642
05:29:15,000 --> 05:29:23,000
Speaker 1: rumor oh boy dianex says if he's still here he's not the only one he's got shot rumors i've heard a rumor

1643
05:29:23,000 --> 05:29:30,000
Speaker 10: that there may be an Urutel that shows up at shot. And it's possible that there may be commercial production

1644
05:29:30,000 --> 05:29:31,000
Speaker 2: Urutaz

1645
05:29:32,000 --> 05:30:05,000
Speaker 10: Oh, no, there's going to be. I mean, I was going to totally bring my Urtau, but yeah, okay. I was going to say, wasn't that kind of the end game for the Urtau? I mean, look at it. It's like... No, that's the Tangara. The Tangara is the one that was really pushed. Because the Tangara was the one that he made for that Argentinian guy for that police contract that never went anywhere. The Urtau was made like the FGC9 to be totally DIY.

1646
05:30:05,000 --> 05:30:09,000
Speaker 1: discord group what's the discord group go

1647
05:30:12,000 --> 05:30:23,000
Speaker 10: disco we must be well why don't you message that group and let's same Discord group. Okay. Let's see.

1648
05:30:26,000 --> 05:30:27,000
Speaker 1: I'm...

1649
05:30:29,000 --> 05:30:39,000
Speaker 4: Speaking of things that were entirely built for the 3D2A space, anybody got anything they think is quite innovative?

1650
05:30:39,000 --> 05:30:41,000
Speaker 10: bringing fresh lights to the

1651
05:30:42,000 --> 05:31:01,000
Speaker 4: I want to see more 3D printed mold making for use with various composite materials. inserts and the like. - I wanna see Nopal's minigun on a Steadicam mount. - I wanna see Nopal to design something using CAD instead of

1652
05:31:02,000 --> 05:31:07,000
Speaker 10: Oh, God. No, I see you listening to this.

1653
05:31:10,000 --> 05:31:16,000
Speaker 3: Frankly, that's more impressive.

1654
05:31:17,000 --> 05:31:26,000
Speaker 10: on this one particularly. They, I guess they're working on an Evo Mag Mac. Please, please guys promote that.

1655
05:31:28,000 --> 05:31:33,000
Speaker 2: or anything you build? Yeah, Evo. Evo Mac is

1656
05:31:34,000 --> 05:31:49,000
Speaker 1: way uh db and jc have it basically finished db needs to get a project out of the pipe first you know it's crazy that you mentioned me in that but i'm the glock guy i don't have any fucking scorpion okay yeah but you're the jc arms glazer bro i can't see a pose

1657
05:31:49,000 --> 05:31:54,000
Speaker 4: without seeing you somewhere around there. JC Arms Glazer. What do you mean, bro?

1658
05:31:54,000 --> 05:32:25,000
Speaker 2: - Oh, hold up, I got like one upper from them, and it works great, that's all I'm saying. - I gotta admit, bro. - JCR. - JCR. - You made a whole video to prove that they're better. Nice PPS 43 style upper. I do like that. This is garbage, right? the fuck do people keep spending their money with Aves? I don't understand. They're fucking-- - Yo. - Because they're nice people. - Real talk, first of all, - He is as good as JC arms.

1659
05:32:26,000 --> 05:32:34,000
Speaker 4: But don't they have weird specs? No. What? No. Everything that - What he has was because

1660
05:32:35,000 --> 05:32:42,000
Speaker 10: brother's CAD from his fusion folder. They're all the same CAD. They're all Velocity reverse engineers.

1661
05:32:42,000 --> 05:32:45,000
Speaker 1: Every single one. - And just to clarify, JC Arms,

1662
05:32:46,000 --> 05:33:05,000
Speaker 4: brother for those that don't know they are competitors but they're brothers yes they're in the same business park they're across the parking lot from each other are you probably they probably sit across the table from each other and look at each other menacingly at lunch that they don't look at each other anymore

1663
05:33:06,000 --> 05:33:08,000
Speaker 2: Did you see P.A.D. Ralph repost my shit?

1664
05:33:10,000 --> 05:33:18,000
Speaker 3: And then Aves goes, hey, do you see that there's a cool dude in booty shorts rocking my gear?

1665
05:33:18,000 --> 05:33:26,000
Speaker 2: on the internet named PSR and then no one pays attention to him. Okay, since you said that, I had a thought that I never

1666
05:33:27,000 --> 05:33:28,000
Speaker 1: but here we go.

1667
05:33:29,000 --> 05:33:34,000
Speaker 2: Avales has to be making a fuck ton of money if they're paying PSR a salary.

1668
05:33:35,000 --> 05:33:58,000
Speaker 1: that KAK used to pay him. And as a YouTuber, a monthly salary, to always mention the same company, you're talking upwards of $5,000 that you can live off of so the fact that he is now the official sponsor means this guy's making a lot of bread all right well yeah hold up yeah hello

1669
05:34:00,000 --> 05:34:05,000
Speaker 4: FDM arms, how much does it cost to manufacture a FMDA system?

1670
05:34:06,000 --> 05:34:11,000
Speaker 1: It depends on how you want to manufacture it.

1671
05:34:11,000 --> 05:34:13,000
Speaker 10: - Just answer the question you nerd.

1672
05:34:15,000 --> 05:34:17,000
Speaker 1: - If you're talking about A, B,

1673
05:34:18,000 --> 05:34:27,000
Speaker 4: I'm talking about yeah cheapest acceptable steel Aluminum the rear you

1674
05:34:27,000 --> 05:34:31,000
Speaker 2: You're talking about seven bucks, man.

1675
05:34:32,000 --> 05:34:39,000
Speaker 4: So, and then last I checked, they're charging what? 70? - 30. - 70 for a pair of front and rear?

1676
05:34:39,000 --> 05:34:44,000
Speaker 1: - Well, here's another thing. So when you,

1677
05:34:44,000 --> 05:34:51,000
Speaker 10: If you're any type of machinist that, you know, That's got an education at least you're not running

1678
05:34:52,000 --> 05:35:07,000
Speaker 1: one so it gets cheaper the more you run and from they don't change their tooling out very often either. So that's what I'm saying. I don't get why people keep spending money with them and they're like, Oh, but it still works. It's just aesthetics and,

1679
05:35:07,000 --> 05:35:13,000
Speaker 3: It's his PSR system. It's his ass on the ass. That's what I'm saying.

1680
05:35:14,000 --> 05:35:23,000
Speaker 1: CONVERSATION WITH PSR. like, just chill the fuck out. Like, don't worry about it." -And I'm like, "Dog, but you're telling me these people to buy this shit and it's garbage.

1681
05:35:25,000 --> 05:35:33,000
Speaker 4: I don't have any issue with Aves. Amen to that. I'm not taking up for Aves, but...

1682
05:35:34,000 --> 05:36:02,000
Speaker 1: it is a gun part so you don't need a wonderful fly cut finish for it to function just as long as you keeping, you know, decent tolerances and non millimeter - That shit, dude. That shit just for it not to work, you have to work. think about it this way. Avez makes for the ARVN. JC Arms makes for SOCOM.

1683
05:36:03,000 --> 05:36:10,000
Speaker 4: I actually had a problem with one of my designs that required a development change specifically to accommodate for the subpar loose

1684
05:36:10,000 --> 05:36:23,000
Speaker 10: materials that Aves was using on the rear of their folds. So I'm not sure how familiar you guys are with I don't know how familiar you are With Mack bolts but the rear plate

1685
05:36:23,000 --> 05:36:32,000
Speaker 4: behind buffer. So we tried Velocity, we tried JC, and then we tried, fuck,

1686
05:36:32,000 --> 05:37:04,000
Speaker 10: Pemby had a masterpiece arms and they all like ran like fucking dreams that we had running an Aave's one and the rear plate, the two little bolts that cut, in the rear plate because it didn't come off. We had a flat rear inside of the receiver. And because it didn't have little recesses for those little Everybody else is fine. Somehow the percussive motion on that steel had begun

1687
05:37:05,000 --> 05:37:09,000
Speaker 4: the left and right side forwards towards the left side.

1688
05:37:10,000 --> 05:37:22,000
Speaker 10: and was binding and preventing the rods from allowing the bolt to return forwards. took it apart and then found out that that rear plate probably like...

1689
05:37:23,000 --> 05:37:26,000
Speaker 4: All right, almost 20 degrees in total.

1690
05:37:26,000 --> 05:37:52,000
Speaker 1: - Yeah, I witnessed I don't want to say his name because I don't want to just toss it out there, but I go to the range with this guy all the time. He's shooting his shit. I think it's at least 500 rounds to get that upper to actually start running properly. But throughout this, I mean, it was misfeeds, failure to reject, was bending around the ejector
 u