<esselfortium> I really have to say I don't like the new rules about ban discussions.
<esselfortium> Wasn't part of the deal with ST's new staff supposed to be about transparency and fairness with all that?
<Metal> There was no deal
<Metal> I'm tired of people arguing with us over bans
<esselfortium> ...
<Metal> Tired of the drama over bans
<Metal> Tired of getting asked about bans
<esselfortium> This really isn't a good way to handle it.
<Metal> Oh and what is?
<esselfortium> Not trying to enforce an information blackout that makes us look like we're a bunch of children with something to hide?
<Metal> Not saying we've got anything to hide at all. I'm tired of answering questions to "why" people were banned, then getting scolded for it
<Metal> There's no reason as to why we have to answer to the community at all
<Metal> We're here to keep the community clean
<Metal> Not discuss who's bad and who isn't.
<Metal> IT's a game.
<Metal> Play the game, ignore the bans. Everythings good
<esselfortium> Answering to the community and keeping the community "clean" are one in the same. You can't do one without the other, unless you want a high turnover rate of people who'll put up with anything.
<Metal> I still don't see any need to have to answer to anyone around here.
<Metal> I don't feel the need to explain my actions to anyone
<Metal> Once you give this community the freedom to do one thing, they bite your whole arm off
<Metal> And take more and more
<esselfortium> Uh...
<esselfortium> There are far larger communities than this one that have no problem at all discussing, either in private or public, reasons for bannings and punishments. This is ridiculous.
<Metal> Of course it is
<Metal> Everything is ridiculous
<Metal> Doesn't matter how I go about things
<Metal> It's always "the wrong" way
<Metal> So you know what
<esselfortium> Even to me this looks like nothing more than "the mods are always right and get the fuck out if you question it". I can't imagine what it must look like from the outside.
<Metal> Do you what you want
<Metal> I dunno
<Metal> I'm done with this
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<ClonedPickle> must refrain from horrible joke
<esselfortium> lmao
<esselfortium> so much cleanness and responsibility
<Remmirath> http://www.skulltag.net/forum/viewforum.php?f=159
<Remmirath> this forum is the proof that there can't be any civil discussion
<esselfortium> Really? *Really*?
<Remmirath> we tried thousands of times to pacifically discuss stuff in public
<esselfortium> Most of what I saw there was "Hey guys, what's wrong with the community and how can we fix it?" "Well, ________, _______, and _______" "What?! We can't allow you guys to be coming in here insulting our community! Thread closed!"
<Remmirath> everything ends up in flames and bawwwing from idiots who think everything is unfai
<Remmirath> *unfair
<Remmirath> 40oz being an asshole is another history though
<esselfortium> The handling of those threads was still really awful, though
<Remmirath> what would have you done, then?
<Wartorn> i like kittens
<esselfortium> Remmirath: If you're going to ask what people think is wrong with the community, don't make them regret having taken the time to explain it.
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<Remmirath> in the first replies of the thread things were going quite good
<Remmirath> there was an actual civil discussion, and there was a debate on how things were sinking
<esselfortium> In response to the asked-for criticisms of the community, I saw staff accusing people of 'insulting the community' (in a thread asking about community problems?? no way) and making absurd rationalizations to avoid having to answer to any of the things brought up.
<esselfortium> By the end of it, the whole exercise felt like it served no other purpose but to be an excuse to say "Well, looks like things are going just fine exactly how they are. Good thing we shut up those trolls who insulted us."
<DevilHunter> witch is why i didnt even bother to post in that thread
<esselfortium> Honestly, the handling of that thread was an embarrassment.
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<SuperGod> lol essel you realy pissed of metal ;]
<SuperGod> But you know, while I understand your point, I have to agree with metal on this
<esselfortium> It didn't take much to make her angry with me. Why even bother having a staff discussion channel if I can't express a dissenting opinion without just getting sarcasm, dismissal, and a ragequit in response?
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<SuperGod> No it's not like that, we were trying to have conversation with peoples in the past, this will not work, I think metal just quit because everything she does is "wrong" she is just tired of all this bs
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<esselfortium> her whole position on it is to pretend the problems don't exist in hopes that they'll go away, though. that's only going to make matters worse, and create a bigger divide between the users and the staff.
<SuperGod> You can't make every1 happy, you know
<esselfortium> that has nothing to do with what i said.
<SuperGod> It has, she is main admin, she decide, nobody is perfect but I guess her decissions are good to the current situations
<SuperGod> You may of course disagree
<SuperGod> Lets vote, who agree with Metal? hands up ;]
<SuperGod> I do
<Tiger> I.
<esselfortium> why can't we have a discussion instead of a vote? this is meaningless.
<Tiger> I see what you are getting at, esselfortium.  However, some users don't know how to 'maturely' discus matters.
<esselfortium> ....
<Tiger> Instead they usally gang on on the Moderator/Admin (I had this once or twice), or huge flame baits.
<esselfortium> okay, and that's true in any community. enforcing a complete blackout on information is not a 'mature' way to handle it, and is only going to make people who are immature about it already get more irritated, while simultaneously distancing the rest of the community from the staff.
<esselfortium> it says "hey, fuckers, we don't trust you so we're not tellin' you *shit*. haha, deal with it bitches! we're in control!"
<Tiger> If this such rules was to be reused again, the administrators and some Moderators will be harassed by other users (even on PN) about the person that was banned; or avoid such arguements.
<Tiger> Locking the forum, will only help to a degree but will not resolve it.
<Tiger> And if I disconnect, that would mean I was just BSOD again after yet another backup process.
<esselfortium> this is just going to drive some people away, make other people annoyed, and lower the denominator of skulltag's community even further.
<Tiger> I don't think Doom world does what you are referring to, do they?
<esselfortium> because i can't see many intelligent people who aren't part of the staff wanting to take part in a community where they can be banned without question without the staff needing to take any responsibility for it.
<Tiger> Nor ZDoom forums.
<esselfortium> uh
<Tiger> Atleast that I know of.
<esselfortium> if you ask why someone is banned, they're not going to give you a bullshit 'sorry we can't tell you' line.
<esselfortium> not in *public* but if you PM a mod to ask about it, they're not going to tell you to fuck off as long as you're polite about it
<Tiger> The thing is if the person that was banned was to ask the administrator or moderator, he should recieve a feedback reply.  Relaying messages to another user should not be practiced in my honest opinion.
<Remmirath> essel: that's what we told them
<Remmirath> in fact
<Remmirath> through pm
<Remmirath> we never said Fuck off
<esselfortium> I'm talking about the new policy.
<esselfortium> It's unreasonable, high-and-mighty, and gives a terrible impression of the staff.
<Tiger> If the user wants to know why and how long his or her ban is, he or she should be able to regardless.  I believe that is still current now.
<Tiger> Relaying, is not.
<Tiger> For example: Why did you ban esselfortium from suchandsuch?
<esselfortium> this is awfully silly.
<SuperGod> essel do you have a bad day today?
<esselfortium> if i'm banned, i can ask the staff about it, but i'm not allowed to tell anyone about it?
<esselfortium> ......
<esselfortium> oh for fuck's sake. you're kidding me.
<Tiger> Now if you were banned and came to me about it, I will try to help you a little but telling you what happened or I will simply tell you to go to the person that originally banned you.
<esselfortium> i feel like i'm talking to the stronghold criticism bingo board. can i get a straight answer from *anyone*?!
<Tiger> [16:42:20] <@esselfortium> if i'm banned, i can ask the staff about it, but i'm not allowed to tell anyone about it?
<Tiger> ... ?
<Remmirath> essel, that's not the point
<Tiger> Where are you getting this from?
<Remmirath> you can tell whoever you want
<Remmirath> other users are not allowed to pm an admin about another person's ban
<esselfortium> you said relaying.
<esselfortium> okay..
<Tiger> [16:40:53] <@Tiger> For example: Why did you ban esselfortium from suchandsuch?
<Tiger> Meaning, I asked metalhead about why you were banned.
<Tiger> You should be able to do this yourself.
<Tiger> Backup failure again...
<Tiger> Lovely windows 7
<esselfortium> You're now all telling me different and conflicting things. Which is it? :\
<Remmirath> tiger explained what i said, basically
<esselfortium> no... you said i can't ask about someone else's ban, he said i could.
<Remmirath> he...did?
<Remmirath> oh
* esselfortium nods happily
<Cyber> rofl
<Remmirath> probably some grammar mistakes on his side
<Cyber> making a big deal out of something simplistic
<esselfortium> ......
<Wartorn> i am a coconut
* Cyber smiles and waves.
<Tiger> [16:46:09] <@esselfortium> no... you said i can't ask about someone else's ban, he said i could. : no...
<Cyber> keep it simple
<Cyber> PM a mod on ban info, keep it off the forums
<Tiger> [16:43:40] <@Tiger> Meaning, I asked metalhead about why you were banned.
<Tiger> [16:43:47] <@Tiger> You should be able to do this yourself. << --
<esselfortium> I have to ask why I've even been put on the staff if I can't disagree with something like this without everyone shouting me down, dismissing me, talking around my questions, asking me if I'm "having a bad day", and telling me I'm making a big deal out of nothing.
<Cyber> for the record i'm referring to everyone here
<Cyber> (in case i'm getting targetted here)
<Cyber> (just saving my ass and ranting on )
<esselfortium> If you don't want my input, don't ask me to be a mod. If you're going to implement policies I can't agree with, though, I can't really remain a member of the collective that's supposed to enforce them.
<Cyber> so what are we discussing again?
<SuperGod> Because Ive got feeling you are ove-reacting, and trust me Im not alone here in my judging :p
<esselfortium> Over-reacting? Does your scrollbar work? Did you see the discussion I had with Metal?
<Cyber> oh i see what's up
<Cyber> and i hate to admit it but
<Cyber> this community does tend to take advantage of everything
<SuperGod> You know, forget it. Ive no problem with "new rules"
<esselfortium> Well, clearly if SuperGod has no problem with them, they're great. I'm sold. Thanks guys.
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<Cyber> ....
<Cyber> all this over a simple ban rule
<Cyber> really?
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<Catoptro1ancy> = (
<Catoptro1ancy> the ban cycle
<esselfortium> Barely anyone in here has allowed me to have anything even remotely resembling a discussion about it. Just gibberish and telling me I'm wrong and asking me if I had a bad day, because that's the only way anyone could possibly disagree with them I guess.
<Cyber> i dont mind but
<Cyber> then what would be a better way to handle it?
<Cyber> ideas tend to help
<Catoptro1ancy> hey If I do <this> will I get banned? What if I do <this>   *gets banned,  hey you werent suppose to ban me for that! You didnt specfically tell me I couldnt do that. Now im mad and will start a clan to hack your site and ddos your servers.
<Catoptro1ancy> heh
<Catoptro1ancy> people will purposely do things to piss off the mods
<esselfortium> Allowing a sane system like was implemented before? I get the whole 'Skulltag users are villainous children and evulz' thing but have you thought that maybe by treating them more like children, they're going to act more like children? That seems to be the usual pattern with communities.
<Catoptro1ancy> as much as possible, without getting banned
<esselfortium> Catoptro1ancy: that has nothing to do with anything i said at all
<esselfortium> you're arguing a totally unrelated point and position
<Cyber> hmm...
<Catoptro1ancy> I know, jsut in general
<Catoptro1ancy> ya heh
<Catoptro1ancy> tldr up there
<Catoptro1ancy> We should just post a ban list and reason
<Catoptro1ancy> thats it, we gave reason...no discussion in neeeded
<Tiger> I believe that was done before.
<Cyber> essel - i guess you could say its just a fear if they did something like that they would get hit again like last time
<Tiger> However, I don't remember why that changed.  To be honest.
<Catoptro1ancy> ok ill read up
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<Tiger> The only downfall, is users harassing the mods and administrators about the ban and some might try to argue over it even if it is not them that is banned.
<Tiger> But I wont go much into this right now.
<Cyber> which was the original intention of hiding them
<Catoptro1ancy> but people werent satisfied.
<Catoptro1ancy> they need moar!
<Catoptro1ancy> then moar because forums and discussions that accoplished nothing but more bans
<Catoptro1ancy> or purges
<Cyber> i agree with cato
<DevilHunter> whoa
<DevilHunter> am i lagging or does Cato type really fast?
<ClonedPickle> yes
<Catoptro1ancy> ya
<Catoptro1ancy> im laggin
<Catoptro1ancy> people will always be pissed for getting banned, and purposely try to piss off mods.
<Catoptro1ancy> not everyone of course, jsut a couple
<DevilHunter> fuck...
<DevilHunter> ok its not me then
<Catoptro1ancy> and since they are trying to troll the mods to death, they will argue thier ban
<Cyber> oh wait, i just read the actual post
<Catoptro1ancy> ROFL at amensty days
<Catoptro1ancy> JOHN FUCKING O
<Catoptro1ancy> was running around sticking up for all the people I kicked or banned
<Catoptro1ancy> even if I just kicked someone for fun, the person knowing they would get kicked
<Catoptro1ancy> haha reverse trolling john o
<Catoptro1ancy> kick someone just so he was lash out about how nazi admin I was
<Catoptro1ancy> even thogh I didnt ban, and they came back in 5 seconds
<Tiger> You still have that WIKI User page, Catoptro1ancy ;)
<Tiger> Just for old times sake.
<Catoptro1ancy> so
<DevilHunter> welp ill be back in a bit
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<Catoptro1ancy> public banlist, reason for ban....they can pm an admin to talk about it., if they troll or harrass an admin into unbanning them, fuckem
<Catoptro1ancy> Tiger: link
<Catoptro1ancy> anything else is unneeded
<Catoptro1ancy> we dont need community wide discussions on wether saying NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER a trillion times is a bad thing worthy of a ban 
<esselfortium> of course we don't. i wasn't arguing that.
<Tiger> I can't right now.  Trying to do a 'successful' backup, sense all of the previous had failed.
<Tiger> since*
<Tiger> Not in the mood for my fitfh BSOD either.
<Catoptro1ancy> mods are mods because of thier reason and judgement
<Catoptro1ancy> esselfortium: im ranting in general
<Catoptro1ancy> just let the wall of text flow
<Catoptro1ancy> well im all ranted out
<esselfortium> heh
<Catoptro1ancy> i cant even read half the good forums = (
<Tiger> The system or format whichever you wish to call it, has been done before to a point.  I just don't remember what happened that it was discontinued.
<Remmirath> idiots flaming our bans in the thread?
<Tiger> After that.
<Catoptro1ancy> i need to be active
<Catoptro1ancy> heh
<Catoptro1ancy> not much idea whats really going on
<Catoptro1ancy> rwtf
<Catoptromancy> im over here too
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<Tiger> SuperGod, is it really normal that the Windows Backup states the the backup file is only 25.6 GB, while I' am using about 138 GB in total?
<Tiger> And the backup is supposed to backup everything.
<Tiger> Atleast that I manually configured.
<SuperGod> Compression
<SuperGod> *Propably*
<Tiger> One hell of a compression.
<SuperGod> Hard to tell, I have a partition 25GB in size, after compression my image file is 3.4GB
<SuperGod> Using norton ghost
<Tiger> Kind of wish it was possible to view the contents from the backup copy.
<SuperGod> Or if im in a better mood, Im using acronis ;]
<SuperGod> it is
<Tiger> News to me, how do you do it?
<Tiger> Trying to access the copy, I get a previlage error.
<SuperGod> Hmm, winxp?
<Tiger> Windows Seven
<Tiger> Windows XP you can view it perfectly.
<Tiger> I don't think I ever had this much hell with Windows XP backup opposed to Windows Seven.
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<Zap610> haha kamikaze is such a tool
<SuperGod> orly ;]
<SuperGod> Yeah tiger, well, I'm using acronis or norton, I assumed it is possible somehow ;]
<Wartorn> Zap610: He's lawa's "brother" no surprise there
<Zap610> heh
<SuperGod> Imho you should switch to acronis ;]
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<SuperGod> tbb ;]
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<SuperGod> or something
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<SuperGod> wb mr ClonedPickle
<SuperGod> inb4 god i hate my connection
<Tiger> Is it free, SuperGod?
<ClonedPickle> it's manageable
<SuperGod> then fix it :p
<Remmirath> it's roadrunner
<SuperGod> lol
<SuperGod> thats cable?
<Remmirath> that's the flag carrier of instability
<ClonedPickle> eh. sometimes it'll shit the bed for a few minutes, then it'll pop back on
<SuperGod> LOL
<SuperGod> meh, back to my game... afk
<ClonedPickle> honestly i'm surprised my router is functioning so well
<Remmirath> well the router doesn't have anything to do with your dsl
<ClonedPickle> got it from a guy at work, haven't ever had that thing not work
<ClonedPickle> i know
<ClonedPickle> just saying
<Remmirath> what kind of router is it?
<ClonedPickle> linksys
<Remmirath> hmmm
<Remmirath> usually those are known not to be very good
<Remmirath> i could be wrong, though
<Remmirath> i'm fine with my netgear :)
<ClonedPickle> it's worked pretty much perfectly as long as i've had it
<ClonedPickle> not that that will be true for others i'm sure
<Remmirath> well, i've heard of dudes having shitton of problems with linksys stuff
<Remmirath> but oh well
<Remmirath> guess you got a working one
<Remmirath> :)
<Tiger> DLink is good.  Just with the newer models, don't use 802.11n.
<Remmirath> DLink is the only brand i've had shit with
<Tiger> Which model?
<Remmirath> i couldn't get that piece of shit working on a fucking dsl line while repairing a pc
<Remmirath> well
<Remmirath> i don't exactly remember
<Remmirath> it was 1 year ago
<Remmirath> but it was just a router extension that had to be plugged in to an actual modem
<Remmirath> some weird ass shit, i know
<Tiger> Hmm, I have tried setting up routers when I was in Europa.  All attempts even the default ISP PPPoE, all failed.
<Tiger> No idea how that happened.
<Remmirath> well, i still wonder why my netgear uses PPPoA instead of PPPoE
<Remmirath> :|
<Tiger> :/
<Remmirath> i even enabled the relay on the fucking thing
<Remmirath> and activated a PPPoE interface connection
<Remmirath> and the internet led stays red
<Remmirath> on PPPoA it works perfectly
<Remmirath> but i'm happy with it
<Remmirath> i get good stuff with it anyway
<Tiger> No idea, to be honest.
<Tiger> SuperGod: Nevermind, I got it.
<Tiger> AND IT ACTUALLY BACKED UP THIS TIME!!!
<Tiger> (for the tenth time!)
<Remmirath> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point-to-Point_Protocol_over_ATM
<Remmirath> seems like it's better than PPPoE
<Tiger> ATM
<Tiger> :)
<Tiger> Mr. Money
<Remmirath> lol
<Tiger> [/lamejoke]
<Remmirath> i know
<Tiger> I wonder if I should have tried PPPoA when I was in Europa.
<Remmirath> well
<Tiger> Eh, but then everyone else was able to get in with PPPoE...
<Remmirath> certainly with my router i can only use PPPoA
<Remmirath> with my old one
<Tiger> I must have failed it.
<Remmirath> i was able to use PPPoE
<Remmirath> O.o
<Tiger> To this day, I still don't understand what I did wrong.
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<Tiger> esselfortium, I think I see what you were getting at.  Atleast half of your arguement, the other is mixed or I don't understand it.  The problem that you were mentioning that I can clearly see (after re-reading it) is the way it is worded.
<Tiger> It is mainly based on again, third person and not the person that is banned.
<Tiger> I could let Metalhead know about this soon.
<Tiger> could - / will+ *
<Eruanna> I am the one who banned Decode - and I see *NO* reason *WHATSOEVER* to have a discussion about it. People need to learn to deal with shit. And essel - no offense - but you've been in Doomworld a lot longer than you've been here - I don't think you really have much of an idea how things work here.
<esselfortium> I think I have about enough of an idea.
<Tiger> I did not mean to start anything, just trying to figure out what you were getting at.
<ClonedPickle> I don't even see why there would be a discussion about that particular ban, unless it was something besides the purgspam
<esselfortium> The discussion in here today makes me think I really don't want to be a part of the staff collective. If I disagree, it's "well you don't know how things work around here" or "someone's having a bad day" or "I don't have to answer to anyone" or another rude dismissal.
<esselfortium> Also, I didn't say anything about anyone named Decode.
<esselfortium> I don't want to be supporting a group that's supposed to publicly agree as a collective if I can't agree with what's being done partially in my name.
<Eruanna> We have our reasons... and trust me, there's some hard learned experience behind it, whether you want to accept it or not.
<Tiger> Eruanna, mind if I pester you real quick?
<Tiger> Just a question, nothing more.
<Eruanna> ok
<Eruanna> I don't really give a flying fuck how "good" of a member Decode was before he pulled the shit he did. He was stupid enough to do it, and that's enough said. Why can't people talk to him directly? Why do we have to ANSWER to a bunch of spoiled fucking brats who don't fucking know enough to mind their own fucking business? And what's worse, why do we have to answer to an entire group of faggots 
<Eruanna> who ALSO don't know enough that if we start letting people like Ambient and Decode get away with the shit that they do, then people will expect to be able to just walk all over us and get away with whatever they want?
<Eruanna> This is not an acceptable way to run a community to me.
<Eruanna> It ends HERE.
<esselfortium> .....
<Eruanna> so if you want to resign over one rule, do it now.
<esselfortium> I didn't say anything about Decode. :-\
<Tiger> I think I see where esselfortium was talking about, from this string ( So don't bother PMing admins or coming to the staff channel asking about it. We will not answer you.  )
<esselfortium> I'm resigning over the insane blowups and utter nonsense I've gotten in response to questioning a new rule.
<Eruanna> it isn't new
<Eruanna> it's just been made public that's all
<Tiger> Change it to a third person (group of other members, and not the ban person him/herself.
<esselfortium> This is absurd, and I can't work under people this unstable and unwilling to consider my position enough to even respond to it without making absurd claims. This is bizarre and otherworldly.
<Catoptro1ancy> = (
<Eruanna> essel: I was just bringing a counterpoint to your argument, that's all
<Eruanna> yeah I did mention decode
<Eruanna> but more or less
<Eruanna> he was an example
<Tiger> esselfortium, did I nail down your previous arguement though?
<esselfortium> my argument said nothing about Decode. if you're being pestered by dickheads, it's common sense you'd ignore them. setting a no-tolerance never-answer-ban-questions rule is just pointless.
<Eruanna> and like I said... we have hard learned experience that says we need it
<Eruanna> like it or not
<Eruanna> opening the discussion to that kind of thing opens a can of worms
<Eruanna> every
<Eruanna> single....
<Eruanna> time..........
<esselfortium> I didn't say open discussion.
<esselfortium> No forums for it. I'm not asking for that.
<Eruanna> even someone asking opens that same can of worms
<Tiger> I assume I' am way off then.
<Eruanna> we've been through it
<Catoptro1ancy> a ban question in pm is cool, taking it to the forums was so bad at one time we just its own forum
<esselfortium> Refusing to discuss it even in private gives me a really bad taste in my mouth. I've been on the other side of the exact issue on another forum.
<esselfortium> It makes the mod staff look like self-righteous shitheads who can't imagine being wrong about anything, honestly.
<Eruanna> We might be wrong, but someone HAS to be right, and it has to be the right group of people. This is why we allow moderator discussions, such as this one.
<Eruanna> But we have learned from experience
<esselfortium> But there's been no discussion. There's just been you telling me I don't know what I'm talking about and it has to be this way.
<Eruanna> the Skulltag community itself, at large, cannot handle such responsibility
<esselfortium> The more you treat a group like children, the more childish people it'll attract. Works every time it's tried.
<esselfortium> If you want to drive out anyone remotely worth keeping around, treating them like little kids is the best way to do it.
<Eruanna> And treating them like adults has magically made everything better?
<esselfortium> "magically"
<esselfortium> nice attitude, it's good to know my contributions are valued
<Eruanna> We've been through that road already
<Eruanna> and it has *NOT* worked
<esselfortium> So totally blacking out any discussion of bans ever for any reason is surely the way to fix it, and couldn't possibly create a larger divide between the staff and userbase.
<esselfortium> Makes sense.
<Eruanna> sometimes such a divide is necessary. if people knew enough to treat us with respect, and treat us like adults, this would never have been a problem.
<Eruanna> it's sad that a few bad apples spoil the bunch, but that's what happened
<esselfortium> By "divide" I mean "flush that last bit of respect down the toilet"
<esselfortium> I'm now finally understanding what I've heard from every former ST staff member I've talked to about staff status more or less being a title and nothing else. Everything I say is dismissed, and with a totally unwarranted attitude.
<esselfortium> It's no wonder there's been so much turnover in the past few years I've been observing the ST community.
<Catoptro1ancy> we need more essel = (
<esselfortium> No one with a shred of sanity or self-respect would want any part of this group.
<Eruanna> I am trying to be as reasonable as possible about it. But meh, you are practicing what you preach, essel, in a bad way.
<ClonedPickle> insane and self-loathing, describes me pretty well
<esselfortium> I haven't seen "reasonable". Sorry.
<Eruanna> what I'm seeing from you
<Eruanna> you are being argumentive
<Eruanna> and dismissive
<Eruanna> and when I try and discuss things with you
<Eruanna> you are putting your own opinion about how I SHOULD be acting into it
<Eruanna> which is clouding my intentions of dealing with this matter
<Eruanna> and as long as you are doing that
<Eruanna> we cannot have a reasonable discussion
<Eruanna> you don't seem to understand I am upset
<Eruanna> and I'm trying best to restrain myself
<Eruanna> from doing something utterly drastic
<esselfortium> "Argumentative and dismissive"? Are you kidding? I've explained my reasons for thinking what I do. All you've given me is the older-and-wiser "we have experience and it has to be this way". Nothing I've said has been seriously considered at all.
<ClonedPickle> then perhaps we should halt the conversation until your mood has improved
<esselfortium> No, I understand you're very upset. That's why this is all so absurd.
<Eruanna> I fucking explained my reasons to you, essel.
<esselfortium> You're pissed as hell that I disagree with you. That's been obvious.
<Eruanna> I explained them to you
<Eruanna> No, I'm pissed that you won't listen.
<esselfortium> Your reasons were strawman arguments and "sorry but it has to be this way". Those aren't reasons.
<Catoptro1ancy> = (  essel missed the amesty, rgmbsk, open ban disscusion forum, purgation
<esselfortium> I'm not asking for any of those things, Cato.
<Catoptro1ancy> no I mean before you were mod
<Catoptro1ancy> there was a lot going on
<Catoptro1ancy> we talked about in here
<Eruanna> essel: They are reasons, and perfectly good ones at that.
<esselfortium> I saw those things happen. I know they ended. I'm not asking for anything like that.
<esselfortium> I'm asking for a reasonable system like on any other respectable forum.
<Eruanna> People are disrespectful
<Eruanna> and like I've already said
<Eruanna> every discussion about another person's ban
<Eruanna> opens a can of worms
<Eruanna> they bite our heads off
<Eruanna> sorry
<esselfortium> "They"
<Eruanna> but we can't have it this way
<esselfortium> Okay then.
<esselfortium> Well, it's been fun. I resign.
<Eruanna> that person who brought it up
<Catoptro1ancy> and eventually realized people will troll as hard as possible, purposely try to get banned just so they can whine about being banned
<Eruanna> alright, see you
<Catoptro1ancy> simk was excellent example heh
<Catoptro1ancy> 1 week ban for something specific
<Catoptro1ancy> he came right out and did it
<esselfortium> Enjoy finding someone less likely to question your judgments.
<Catoptro1ancy> I gave him 3 months.
* You have left channel #stmods (heh)