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-- My resignation from Skulltag staff. (http://www.doomworld.com/vb/52295/)
My resignation from Skulltag staff.
There was some question over my recent disappearance from the staff roster over on Skulltag.net.
Yesterday I voiced disagreement over a staff policy. In lieu of an
actual discussion, my opinions were shouted down with otherworldly
strawman arguments, bizarre accusations, and insistence that I had no
idea what I was talking about. I repeatedly tried to clarify what I was
actually asking for, only to be rudely dismissed repeatedly and talked
down to, including questions of whether I was having a bad day and
insistence that they knew better.
I was then told, summarily, that my questioning of Eruanna's policy was
argumentative and made "discussion impossible". At this point I was less
concerned about the rule and more about the visible instability of the
staff I was working with. I'm willing to accept that my opinions are
only my opinions, and that they don't need to be shared by the rest of
the staff, but none of my suggestions or criticisms were even given the
slightest bit of consideration. As I had no interest in being a staff
member in name only, whose only allowed purpose was to be a yes-man to
Metal and Eruanna, I resigned.
So, that was that. I look forward to continuing my contributions to the
Doom community in other ways, and wish Metal and Eruanna the best of
luck in finding new staff members who will be less questioning of their
wisdom. I now no longer doubt the horror stories I've heard from other
former staff members.
I wasn't going to make a public announcement of this, but I've already
seen attempts to rewrite history to make me look like the aggressor in
all this, so I figured I'd post my side of the story. I was going to
post it on Skulltag itself, but the thread was conveniently locked while
I was writing my post. Funny thing, that.
I totally agree with your reasoning for resigning.
Sounds like you did the right thing, as it's clear they didn't want to "include" you in their elite group.
Re: My resignation from Skulltag staff.
esselfortium said:
I was going to post it on Skulltag itself, but the thread was conveniently locked while I was writing my post. Funny thing, that.
Sounds to me like you got what you deserved. What you did was completely unacceptable. The skulltag admins always know what's best. That's why the community is so awesome and is by no means a cesspool of stupidty and furfaggotry. You have no right to question anything they do because they know exactly what they're doing and are completely incapable of being wrong so obviously what you did was wrong.
You can always join my group Essel, The KickAwesome DoomMasters.
lol
I hear 'ya.
I saw this yesterday, and I wasn't surprised then and I'm not surprised now. Anytime anyone brings up an issue with the Skulltag community, they're immediately ostracized (see also: hex_vulture). Basically, if Metal and/or Eruanna says it's so, then it's fucking so. When they say that doom skies suck, you better either be putting in unreal skys or at least a skybox! Seriously they're not interested in dissent in the ranks, and if the skulltag community were any worse it'd be a combination of /b/ and Maoist China.
They're just applying the Rooster in the Henhouse principle by the book. And you surely don't want to be the hen, when the Rooster is around...
Skulltag is a fantastic port with an absolutely abysmal and unnecessary online community.
Yet another perfect example of why women shouldn't be allowed to be in a position of power at all, jesus
Mr. T said:
Yet another perfect example of why women shouldn't be allowed to be in a position of power at all, jesus
What a bunch of bullshit.
It's really sad that such a great source port is so prone to such
mudslinging and lockstep admiration. And that's not even counting the
non-staff who I have problems with (Cutman, Firewolf, etc).
Almost makes me want to go to ZDaemon.
Even through I love Skulltag, I really don't care much for their community. In fact before I registered for Doomworld, I gave myself a choice whether to join Doomworld or Skulltag by a flip of a coin. I'm so glad it was tails and made the right decision :)
Re: My resignation from Skulltag staff.
esselfortium said:
I now no longer doubt the horror stories I've heard from other former staff members.
HEY THIS SOUNDS SO FAMILIAR.
I will leave you with this linky link www.odamex.net
Nice BAWWWWWW. 10/10. Would read again.
SoulPriestess said:
Nice BAWWWWWW. 10/10. Would read again.
Infurnus said:
What a troll. Quoting this so you can never edit it out.
This is why I don't post outside of the projects, bugs and feature
requests forum. However, unlike ZDaemon, it seems like the
administration merely doesn't give a shit about places like Skullrant,
as opposed to trying to shut them down.
The port is great. But community-wise, you're better off sticking to places like Skullrant.
SoulPriestess said:
He earned it. If you saw the full logs, you'd see how argumentative he was. He would not listen or reason with me. But eh. He's essel. He's king of the world, amirite?
TO DOUBT ESSEL IS A DISGRACE UPON ALL!
SoulPriestess said:
Nice BAWWWWWW. 10/10. Would read again.
<Metal> I still don't see any need to have to answer to anyone around here.
<Metal> I don't feel the need to explain my actions to anyone
<Metal> Once you give this community the freedom to do one thing, they bite your whole arm off
<Metal> And take more and more
<esselfortium> Uh...
<esselfortium> There are far larger communities than this one that have no problem at all discussing, either in private or public, reasons for bannings and punishments. This is ridiculous.
<Metal> Of course it is
<Metal> Everything is ridiculous
<Metal> Doesn't matter how I go about things
<Metal> It's always "the wrong" way
<Metal> So you know what
<esselfortium> Even to me this looks like nothing more than "the mods are always right and get the fuck out if you question it". I can't imagine what it must look like from the outside.
<Metal> Do you what you want
<Metal> I dunno
<Metal> I'm done with this
* Metal has quit ()
<esselfortium> this is awfully silly.
<SuperGod> essel do you have a bad day today?
<Eruanna> I don't really give a flying fuck how "good" of a member Decode was before he pulled the shit he did. He was stupid enough to do it, and that's enough said. Why can't people talk to him directly? Why do we have to ANSWER to a bunch of spoiled fucking brats who don't fucking know enough to mind their own fucking business? And what's worse, why do we have to answer to an entire group of faggots
<Eruanna> who ALSO don't know enough that if we start letting people like Ambient and Decode get away with the shit that they do, then people will expect to be able to just walk all over us and get away with whatever they want?
<Eruanna> This is not an acceptable way to run a community to me.
<Eruanna> It ends HERE.
<esselfortium> .....
<Eruanna> so if you want to resign over one rule, do it now.
<esselfortium> I didn't say anything about Decode. :-\
<Eruanna> We might be wrong, but someone HAS to be right, and it has to be the right group of people. This is why we allow moderator discussions, such as this one.
<Eruanna> But we have learned from experience
<esselfortium> But there's been no discussion. There's just been you telling me I don't know what I'm talking about and it has to be this way.
<Eruanna> the Skulltag community itself, at large, cannot handle such responsibility
<esselfortium> The more you treat a group like children, the more childish people it'll attract. Works every time it's tried.
<esselfortium> If you want to drive out anyone remotely worth keeping around, treating them like little kids is the best way to do it.
<Eruanna> And treating them like adults has magically made everything better?
<esselfortium> "magically"
<esselfortium> nice attitude, it's good to know my contributions are valued
<Eruanna> We've been through that road already
<Eruanna> and it has *NOT* worked
<esselfortium> So totally blacking out any discussion of bans ever for any reason is surely the way to fix it, and couldn't possibly create a larger divide between the staff and userbase.
<esselfortium> Makes sense.
<Eruanna> sometimes such a divide is necessary. if people knew enough to treat us with respect, and treat us like adults, this would never have been a problem.
<Eruanna> it's sad that a few bad apples spoil the bunch, but that's what happened
<esselfortium> By "divide" I mean "flush that last bit of respect down the toilet"
<esselfortium> I'm now finally understanding what I've heard from every former ST staff member I've talked to about staff status more or less being a title and nothing else. Everything I say is dismissed, and with a totally unwarranted attitude.
<esselfortium> It's no wonder there's been so much turnover in the past few years I've been observing the ST community.
<Catoptro1ancy> we need more essel = (
<esselfortium> No one with a shred of sanity or self-respect would want any part of this group.
<Eruanna> I am trying to be as reasonable as possible about it. But meh, you are practicing what you preach, essel, in a bad way.
<Eruanna> what I'm seeing from you
<Eruanna> you are being argumentive
<Eruanna> and dismissive
<Eruanna> and when I try and discuss things with you
<Eruanna> you are putting your own opinion about how I SHOULD be acting into it
<Eruanna> which is clouding my intentions of dealing with this matter
<Eruanna> and as long as you are doing that
<Eruanna> we cannot have a reasonable discussion
<Eruanna> you don't seem to understand I am upset
<Eruanna> and I'm trying best to restrain myself
<Eruanna> from doing something utterly drastic
<esselfortium> "Argumentative and dismissive"? Are you kidding? I've explained my reasons for thinking what I do. All you've given me is the older-and-wiser "we have experience and it has to be this way". Nothing I've said has been seriously considered at all.
<ClonedPickle> then perhaps we should halt the conversation until your mood has improved
<esselfortium> No, I understand you're very upset. That's why this is all so absurd.
<Eruanna> I fucking explained my reasons to you, essel.
<esselfortium> You're pissed as hell that I disagree with you. That's been obvious.
<Eruanna> I explained them to you
<Eruanna> No, I'm pissed that you won't listen.
<esselfortium> Your reasons were strawman arguments and "sorry but it has to be this way". Those aren't reasons.
SoulPriestess said:
He's essel. He's king of the world
Whether you were right or wrong it sounds frustrating and disappointing for you. Keep yer chin up, esselfortium.
<ClonedPickle> then perhaps we should halt the conversation until your mood has improved
too bad this didn't happen at all
I sympathize with you, but I also warned you in the first place that this sort of thing would happen, so I hope it didn't come as much of a surprise.
SoulPriestess said:
Nice BAWWWWWW. 10/10. Would read again.
What would I be "bawwing" about? Honestly, this is pathetic. You're not even trying. I resigned of my own volition because you're visibly unstable, particularly Eruanna.
SoulPriestess said:
When you (essel) are blowing things way out of proportion, making a mountain out of a mole hill, that's not showing any visible instability on your part?
You are much harsher to prospective mappers. I've seen you on private TSoZD forums. It's either ESSEL'S WAY OR THE HIGHWAY. You should be ashamed of yourself and how you conduct yourself overall in the community, but with the herd of sheep at your command who think you're a god, you don't see your own personality faults, do you?
I'm glad I'm not you. At least the community is honest with me when I make a mistake... sometimes.
I'm glad I'm not you.
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SoulPriestess said:
you don't see your own personality faults
esselfortium said:
Uh. What? Sorry, but no. Remmirath, 40oz, and a hell of a lot of other people ask me for my input voluntarily on a pretty regular basis. I'm often thanked for it, even. Criticizing peoples' maps and giving advice on them is pretty different than shouting down opinions that are opposed to yours. You're not even attempting to make yourself look good here.
And I didn't quit over the rule; I'm fine with disagreements. I quit over your complete inability to even hear out my opinion without throwing sarcastic jabs and nonsense in my face. I'm not interested in being a yes-man whose stated purpose is to make your decisions look like a group consensus.
The above post has enough projecting in it to make Carn embarrassed.
Essel's got no problem with disagreements, just about people who go shit-faced-crazy over disagreements, from what I see.
SoulPriestess said:
Again, you're blowing things way out of proportion.
And is this all about looking good? So you quit staff just to look good, too, then, didn't you?
Obviously, you are not fine with disagreements. That was completely evident the day you quit.
esselfortium said:
Ah, the strawman arguments and ad hominem attacks again. Awesome, I love those!
I stated perfectly clearly why I resigned. You're doing a terrible job of smearing me, I've got to say. If I didn't know better I'd suspect someone had hijacked your account to make you look like a power-thirsty control freak with a bad attitude.
SoulPriestess said:
I'm not trying to smear you at all. I'm not even trying to hurt your reputation. Unfortunately, I can't say the same about you.
All I'm doing is plainly stating it the way I see it. It seems you have issues with that, though.
And how did you assume I missed it? Are you putting words in my mouth again?
SoulPriestess said:
And how did you assume I missed it? Are you putting words in my mouth again?
SoulPriestess said:
And how did you assume I missed it? Are you putting words in my mouth again?
And the Skulltag administration shows its true colours.
If you are talking about this forum, then no, not really. We call people out, make fun of them, and move on with our discussions. Somehow projects that gain momentum and then a cult following spawn asshole leaders. You don't see shit like this around here because we don't have a collective project to be over sensitive about if someone complains. I'm a big user of all ports, but I've stayed off the forums for this reason.
ClonedPickle said:
This seems to be a trend with a lot of people around here.
esselfortium said:
"Again"? Huh.
I assumed you must have somehow overlooked it, because it makes the state of the situation pretty clear. Incredibly, your own posts here have only dug a deeper hole for yourself, something I would have thought impossible.
I'm not a "god," nor am I trying to be one. I'm just an honest guy who got sapped into being part of your staff for a month or so.
Csonicgo said:
And the Skulltag administration shows its true colours.
Anyway, whatever. The claims of my supposed instability and immaturity
You should be ashamed of yourself and how you conduct yourself overall in the community, but with the herd of sheep at your command who think you're a god, you don't see your own personality faults, do you?
SoulPriestess said:
And as for the comments about you being "god" - well - that's just the way I see you right now. Because you have so many sheep at your beck and call. You have more "yes men" than I do. I can't be the only one who sees that.
SoulPriestess said:
5) And as for the comments about you being "god" - well - that's just the way I see you right now. Because you have so many sheep at your beck and call. You have more "yes men" than I do. I can't be the only one who sees that.
SoulPriestess said:
1) In the log... you assumed I was talking down to you. I was not. I was merely stating points.
5) And as for the comments about you being "god" - well - that's just the way I see you right now. Because you have so many sheep at your beck and call. You have more "yes men" than I do. I can't be the only one who sees that.
I've been working the ol' noggin to think of an appropriate response
to this debacle, and after much deliberation I do believe I have arrived
at the only logical conclusion.
lol women.
When did DW get filled with womanizers?
Re: Re: My resignation from Skulltag staff.
Though I don't believe I've told Essel the horror stories I have, I'll go ahead and quote exp(x).
exp(x) said:
:)
No. There are just a lot of people who currently think you're an idiot.
SoulPriestess said:
Such is the curse of being an admin for one of the most popular multiplayer Doom ports. Any time you speak your mind, there's a ton of people who disagree, despite those that do.
You know what? I don't care about them. I'm not going to shed a tear over them. If they want to tell me how to improve, they can POLITELY come on IRC, say, hey, I think you need to improve with suchandsuchandsuch, and say, you know, if you stopped doing this, or started doing this, it would make you an awesome admin.
But nobody does that, so what's the use? Instead, they troll and spam and do things in non-productive ways. And then they wonder why we don't listen to them.
esselfortium said:
Oh please.
esselfortium said:
*raises hand* I did that!
See where it got me? I can't imagine why no one else would bother.
esselfortium said:
Such generalizations!
SoulPriestess said:
Such is the curse of being an admin for one of the most popular multiplayer Doom ports. Any time you speak your mind, there's a ton of people who disagree, despite those that do.
SoulPriestess said:
I tried reasoning with you. I really did. You were the one who blew things out of proportion. I've tried resolving it on the spot, but you opted to leave instead. *shrugs* With a hissy fit, I might add, as evidenced here.
<Eruanna> ok
<Eruanna> I don't really give a flying fuck how "good" of a member Decode was before he pulled the shit he did. He was stupid enough to do it, and that's enough said. Why can't people talk to him directly? Why do we have to ANSWER to a bunch of spoiled fucking brats who don't fucking know enough to mind their own fucking business? And what's worse, why do we have to answer to an entire group of faggots
<Eruanna> who ALSO don't know enough that if we start letting people like Ambient and Decode get away with the shit that they do, then people will expect to be able to just walk all over us and get away with whatever they want?
<Eruanna> This is not an acceptable way to run a community to me.
<Eruanna> It ends HERE.
<esselfortium> .....
<Eruanna> so if you want to resign over one rule, do it now.
<esselfortium> I didn't say anything about Decode. :-\
<Eruanna> We might be wrong, but someone HAS to be right, and it has to be the right group of people. This is why we allow moderator discussions, such as this one.
<Eruanna> But we have learned from experience
<esselfortium> But there's been no discussion. There's just been you telling me I don't know what I'm talking about and it has to be this way.
<Eruanna> the Skulltag community itself, at large, cannot handle such responsibility
John Smith said:
Now you're doing the victim troll? Holy shit. For a woman you have huge balls. I don't even have the stones to go from attack troll to concern troll to victim troll in one thread. Do you carry your balls in a wheelbarrow or something?
SoulPriestess said:
You suck at trolling.
SoulPriestess said:
You suck at trolling.
John Smith said:
Now make me a sandwich.
One that doesn't have vagina juice on it. Seriously you need a man. Someone who will make you cringe when you hear the word "belt." For some women thats all that will stop them from being menstrual about everything. I have seen it first hand. It's not your fault. It's ok. It's really hard for some chicks to make it outside of the home. Really, we can't hold your behavior against you, its in your biology to do this. Don't worry about it.
John Smith said:
I have seen it first hand.
John Smith said:
Now make me a sandwich.
SoulPriestess said:
What kind?
SoulPriestess said:
3) There were many times when you've been particularly harsh - when people asked for it or not. Your standards are ridiculously high - and it all the more has shown to me that if there's something you don't like - you have no problem talking it down, even when it is perfectly good. (edit) Why does everything have to be ABSOLUTELY PERFECT to you?
Hi. I don't post here too often. But thought I would for this lovely
topic. I never intended to bash, disgrace, insult or talk down to you
Essel. I left the channel mainly to avoid an argument. It's very
unfortunate that it continued.
Let's get one thing straight. Gender has nothing to do with this, at
all. Those comments are really immature, as far as I'm concerned.
However, this all could have been handled much much better.
I understand you all want to side with Essel, but fact of the matter is,
he is telling only his side of the story. I'll explain mine in a less
wall of text sort of way. And basically, as I said, I explained to him
why I didn't want to change the rule and wanted to try it for a while
before we changed anything about it. After that, things escalated to an
uncomfortable level. So I left.
After leaving I read the log and had seen the argument continued anyway
between the whole channel. What Essel posted, wasn't the whole thing,
unfortunately, only bits and pieces.
As far as this whole 'let's blame Eruanna' thing goes, *I* made the
rule, she simply agreed with me on it, and voiced HER opinion on it with
Essel after my departure from the channel. This does not make her
hostile, or an idiot. She was simply doing the same thing Essel was, and
that was voicing her opinion on it. I also had seen in the log that
OTHER staff members were agreeing with her. There is a reason for this.
I'm not saying Essel is inexperienced or anything of the sort, but the
Skulltag community sometimes needs different rules for different things.
We tend to experiment different rules to see what will and can make the
community a better place. I'm not going to sit here and say we're
perfect, or that we're right because everyone makes mistakes, it's
completely natural.
However, Essel, I really wish you didn't bring the drama here. I wanted
to eventually discuss things with you privately after all was cooled
down and settled. But right now it seems as if you want to flare things
up more between us, and that is not what I wanted, nor was it my
intentions. I'll leave this at that. I'm sorry all this had to happen.
We sometimes get tired of fucking ass, so we turn to assholes of the opposite gender.
ClonedPickle said:
When did DW get filled with womanizers?
Call now!
Metalhead2 said:
Hi. I don't post here too often. But thought I would for this lovely topic. I never intended to bash, disgrace, insult or talk down to you Essel. I left the channel mainly to avoid an argument. It's very unfortunate that it continued.
After leaving I read the log and had seen the argument continued anyway between the whole channel. What Essel posted, wasn't the whole thing, unfortunately, only bits and pieces.
As far as this whole 'let's blame Eruanna' thing goes, *I* made the rule, she simply agreed with me on it, and voiced HER opinion on it with Essel after my departure from the channel. This does not make her hostile, or an idiot. She was simply doing the same thing Essel was, and that was voicing her opinion on it. I also had seen in the log that OTHER staff members were agreeing with her. There is a reason for this.
However, Essel, I really wish you didn't bring the drama here. I wanted to eventually discuss things with you privately after all was cooled down and settled. But right now it seems as if you want to flare things up more between us, and that is not what I wanted, nor was it my intentions. I'll leave this at that. I'm sorry all this had to happen.
Mmmm, that SoulPriestess has a sexy voice.
Bank said:
Call now!
Had you not brought this here, there would've been none. I was fine and willing to just forget about it. But meh, that's not what you wanted is it?
esselfortium said:
I've seen the vilification that often happens to those who depart from the Skulltag staff on bad terms, and opted to intercept it.
SoulPriestess said:
Had you not brought this here, there would've been none. I was fine and willing to just forget about it. But meh, that's not what you wanted is it?
esselfortium said:
Yawn. I'm getting tired of answering the same attacks rephrased in different ways.
Anyway, had I not brought it here, the Skulltag staff would have swept it under the rug.
SoulPriestess said:
And you have a huge issue with that? I'm not even going to say what I feel about that.
But I'll say what I think - now you're showing your true colors.
SoulPriestess said:
And you have a huge issue with that?
Reading the log, I'm pretty sure both sides were to blame for the
incident. I see lots of miscommunication and misunderstandings from
everyone. Essel, I do think you could have put many of your statements a
bit more tactfully, as could everyone else, although perhaps the
pressures of being an admin make that difficult.
Also Essel, I'm not sure it was a good idea to bring this out into the
open, and especially here. You know you're probably more well-respected
here than on ST, and of course most of the people likely to post would
take your side (without knowing the full story first though). And
predictably, the attitude in this thread has so far been quite anti-ST
administration, except for the admins themselves. Especially the
trollposts/anti-women posts. All they're doing is pushing the ST and DW
communities further apart (even though this mainly concerns the admins.)
My main reaction so far is one of sadness that people that I look up to
and respect are fighting among each other like this. I do truly believe
that this could have been at least partly resolved (though perhaps never
fully) by a few quiet discussions in private between the parties in
question.
Essel is acting the way he always has been. You should listen to Bank's advertisement, it's really good quality. And if you already have, listen again! It's great stuff.
Maybe this is just all a joke, and that Metalhead and Euranna are sitting in a hot tub, under the stars, cuddling each other and giggling at our reaction to the drama.
SoulPriestess said:
Had you not brought this here, there would've been none. I was fine and willing to just forget about it. But meh, that's not what you wanted is it?
Bank said:
http://tindeck.com/image/tkml/stats.png
Call now!
Infurnus said:
Wow, just wow. You're just mocking him aren't you?
esselfortium said:
While I wasn't particularly impressed with the professionalism of your reaction, it was mainly Eruanna's behavior a few hours later that convinced me to quit.
esselfortium said:
Incorrect! I posted a few snippets for tl;dr purposes, but I also linked to http://pastebin.com/Yhb4YP2a a full, unedited, unabridged log of several hours of chat, from the time I first brought the issue up to the time I left the channel.
esselfortium said:
Agreeing or disagreeing with a rule is not the issue here. The behavior and means of doing so was absolutely unacceptable for someone running a community.
esselfortium said:
I've seen the vilification that often happens to those who depart from the Skulltag staff on bad terms, and opted to intercept it.
Essel was wrong, he's a dumb dog dick, and I hate his guts along with the rest of you pathetic, gelatinous tapeworms
User was banned for this post.
So that's why Ralph's title was changed. That's some insight.
Metalhead2 said:
The only staff I know of that you could be talking about would be Whoo (Of whom I asked politely to tone down his attitude towards other users)
This thread wins a Golden Poo:
I made this 4 u guys... i hope u love it <3
That PM seems reasonable enough to be considered polite in a firm, business like manner. But that's just me.
Krispavera said:
That PM seems reasonable enough to be considered polite in a firm, business like manner. But that's just me.
Aw man, there goes an ego point!
Whoo said:
While it's not 100% rude, it's still not very polite pal.
And now I'm going to sit back, grab some popcorn, and enjoy the rest of the show until I go to bed.
boy skulltag sure is gay
After the fall of the NEWDOOM empire, it had to shift somewhere.
Use3D said:
boy skulltag sure is gay
SoulPriestess said:
No. I'm just clearly pointing out that he's doing this for nothing more than attention.
You know what? I don't care about them. I'm not going to shed a tear over them. If they want to tell me how to improve, they can POLITELY come on IRC, say, hey, I think you need to improve with suchandsuchandsuch, and say, you know, if you stopped doing this, or started doing this, it would make you an awesome admin.
<esselfortium> I really have to say I don't like the new rules about ban discussions.
<esselfortium> Wasn't part of the deal with ST's new staff supposed to be about transparency and fairness with all that?
<Eruanna> I am the one who banned Decode - and I see *NO* reason *WHATSOEVER* to have a discussion about it. People need to learn to deal with shit. And essel - no offense - but you've been in Doomworld a lot longer than you've been here - I don't think you really have much of an idea how things work here.
esselfortium said:
Uh. What? Sorry, but no. Remmirath, 40oz, and a hell of a lot of other people ask me for my input voluntarily on a pretty regular basis. I'm often thanked for it, even. Criticizing peoples' maps and giving advice on them is pretty different than shouting down opinions that are opposed to yours. You're not even attempting to make yourself look good here.
Craigs said:
Essel "went on IRC politely" and offered his input on the subject, maintaining a calm and reasonable attitude throughout the conversation, and how did you respond? You immediately greeted his argument with increasing hostility and dismissed everything he said stating that he hadn't been in the Skulltag community long enough to understand how things worked.
Craigs said:
Oh and incidentally:
Eruanna: Joined Thu Aug 28, 2008 11:51 pm
Esselfortium: Joined Tue Jun 26, 2007 7:19 pm
Looks to me like Essel's been in the Skulltag community a bit longer than. Maybe he's the one who should be the administrator. I have no idea what's gotten in to you but right now you're being a childish hypocritical idiot.
SoulPriestess, you can't even post anymore without looking like a ignorant douche bag. Your almost a parody.
SoulPriestess said:
I was perfectly reasonable when I talked to him in that log. I was firm, I stood my ground, and I never lost my cool. No matter how many times or how many people say it, I never was hostile towards him. Maybe critical, but not hostile. There IS a difference.
Technician said:
SoulPriestess, you can't even post anymore without looking like a ignorant douche bag. Your almost a parody.
John Smith said:
Translation: No matter how many people call me out on pitching a fit, or what a bunch of silly IRC logs say, I was calm, and I was right. Because, really, when am I not calm or not right?"
SoulPriestess said:
No. I'm just clearly pointing out that he's doing this for nothing more than attention.
SoulPriestess said:
I was perfectly reasonable when I talked to him in that log. I was firm, I stood my ground, and I never lost my cool. No matter how many times or how many people say it, I never was hostile towards him. Maybe critical, but not hostile. There IS a difference.
<Eruanna> I don't really give a flying fuck how "good" of a member Decode was before he pulled the shit he did. He was stupid enough to do it, and that's enough said. Why can't people talk to him directly? Why do we have to ANSWER to a bunch of spoiled fucking brats who don't fucking know enough to mind their own fucking business? And what's worse, why do we have to answer to an entire group of faggots
<Eruanna> who ALSO don't know enough that if we start letting people like Ambient and Decode get away with the shit that they do, then people will expect to be able to just walk all over us and get away with whatever they want?
<Eruanna> This is not an acceptable way to run a community to me.
<Eruanna> It ends HERE.
<esselfortium> .....
<Eruanna> so if you want to resign over one rule, do it now.
<esselfortium> I didn't say anything about Decode. :-\
<Eruanna> what I'm seeing from you
<Eruanna> you are being argumentive
<Eruanna> and dismissive
<Eruanna> and when I try and discuss things with you
<Eruanna> you are putting your own opinion about how I SHOULD be acting into it
<Eruanna> which is clouding my intentions of dealing with this matter
<Eruanna> and as long as you are doing that
<Eruanna> we cannot have a reasonable discussion
<Eruanna> you don't seem to understand I am upset
<Eruanna> and I'm trying best to restrain myself
<Eruanna> from doing something utterly drastic
<esselfortium> "Argumentative and dismissive"? Are you kidding? I've explained my reasons for thinking what I do. All you've given me is the older-and-wiser "we have experience and it has to be this way". Nothing I've said has been seriously considered at all.
<ClonedPickle> then perhaps we should halt the conversation until your mood has improved
<esselfortium> No, I understand you're very upset. That's why this is all so absurd.
<Eruanna> I fucking explained my reasons to you, essel.
<esselfortium> You're pissed as hell that I disagree with you. That's been obvious.
<Eruanna> I explained them to you
<Eruanna> No, I'm pissed that you won't listen.
<esselfortium> Your reasons were strawman arguments and "sorry but it has to be this way". Those aren't reasons.
Essel that is the epitome of calm, rational, and reasonable. Really how hard is it to realize this? Gosh.
No, I'm not being mean, please look at what you're writing.
SoulPriestess said:
Speak for yourself. :)
lol
esselfortium said:
I can't believe you've made me post this again.
<Eruanna> I don't really give a flying fuck how "good" of a member Decode was before he pulled the shit he did. He was stupid enough to do it, and that's enough said. Why can't people talk to him directly? Why do we have to ANSWER to a bunch of spoiled fucking brats who don't fucking know enough to mind their own fucking business? And what's worse, why do we have to answer to an entire group of faggots
<Eruanna> who ALSO don't know enough that if we start letting people like Ambient and Decode get away with the shit that they do, then people will expect to be able to just walk all over us and get away with whatever they want?
<Eruanna> This is not an acceptable way to run a community to me.
<Eruanna> It ends HERE.
<esselfortium> .....
<Eruanna> so if you want to resign over one rule, do it now.
<esselfortium> I didn't say anything about Decode. :-\
<Eruanna> what I'm seeing from you
<Eruanna> you are being argumentive
<Eruanna> and dismissive
<Eruanna> and when I try and discuss things with you
<Eruanna> you are putting your own opinion about how I SHOULD be acting into it
<Eruanna> which is clouding my intentions of dealing with this matter
<Eruanna> and as long as you are doing that
<Eruanna> we cannot have a reasonable discussion
<Eruanna> you don't seem to understand I am upset
<Eruanna> and I'm trying best to restrain myself
<Eruanna> from doing something utterly drastic
<esselfortium> "Argumentative and dismissive"? Are you kidding? I've explained my reasons for thinking what I do. All you've given me is the older-and-wiser "we have experience and it has to be this way". Nothing I've said has been seriously considered at all.
<ClonedPickle> then perhaps we should halt the conversation until your mood has improved
<esselfortium> No, I understand you're very upset. That's why this is all so absurd.
<Eruanna> I fucking explained my reasons to you, essel.
<esselfortium> You're pissed as hell that I disagree with you. That's been obvious.
<Eruanna> I explained them to you
<Eruanna> No, I'm pissed that you won't listen.
<esselfortium> Your reasons were strawman arguments and "sorry but it has to be this way". Those aren't reasons.
SoulPriestess said:
Again - proves that I have not lost my cool. I kept it the entire time.
SoulPriestess said:
Again - proves that I have not lost my cool. I kept it the entire time.
Again - proves that I have not lost my cool. I kept it the entire time.
<Eruanna> which is clouding my intentions of dealing with this matter
<Eruanna> you don't seem to understand I am upset
<Eruanna> and I'm trying best to restrain myself
<Eruanna> from doing something utterly drastic
<Eruanna> No, I'm pissed that you won't listen.
SoulPriestess said:
Join date does not indicate experience with dealing with people. Especially ones who BAWWW over their friends' bans and can't learn to deal with the fact that they broke simple rules. If you pay attention to the context in which that was said, you'd understand that bans are the ONLY thing which we will not discuss - reasonably or otherwise.
I was perfectly reasonable when I talked to him in that log. I was firm, I stood my ground, and I never lost my cool. No matter how many times or how many people say it, I never was hostile towards him. Maybe critical, but not hostile. There IS a difference.
You really believe what you're saying SoulPriestess? You really are that fucking stupid aren't you? I tip my hat to you madam. Working through that severe mental retardism you have to be able to post things on the internet must have been a great deal of time and effort. I applaud your dedication and work ethic. You are truly an inspiration to downs children everywhere.
rules are for bitches.
DoomCup said:
I am thankful that I am not a member of the skulltag community. It must take a great deal of willful ignorance or corruption to put up with such draconian and tyrannical methods of project management.
SoulPriestess said:
How would you run it better?
SoulPriestess said:
Alright - Mr. Expert.
How would you run it better?
And I challenge you - I doubt you can pull it off - to word your response without a single insult. If you can do that, you win.
The correct way to run the forums is to lock threads where running the forums comes up in the form of a question.
Revenant said:
Wasn't there a thread to this effect on the Skulltag forums already?
Revenant said:
Wasn't there a thread to this effect on the Skulltag forums already?
Infurnus said:
You first.
SoulPriestess said:
Alright - Mr. Expert.
How would you run it better?
And I challenge you - I doubt you can pull it off - to word your response without a single insult. If you can do that, you win.
SoulPriestess said:
People are too immature - but prove me wrong. PROVE ME WRONG!
DoomCup said:
For one thing, I would allow open discussion of people's bans. I would also make clear the situations that would lead to a ban. All official business would be carried out in the open for all to see, so that there is no ambiguity about what is going on.
Those should be a good start.
you could try not responding to shit you think is stupid.
I would just do what Carnevil did: press the red button and nuke everyone, texas bbq style
SoulPriestess said:
Alright. You win one point. No insult in that at all. Good job.
Now, I challenge you to answer me this... with everything completely out in the open, and people completely up in your business, and the need to remove trolls and cheaters to keep things sane (and to keep the port alive) - and with people criticizing your EVERY step... how would you go about this?
http://www.skulltag.net/forum/viewforum.php?f=159
Relevant make the community better topics. Both got locked because,
basically, the modmins and the forum population couldnt agree on what
kind of changes to make. One of the threads ended with a different
staffer being removed and ostracized from the community. I'd encourage
everyone here to fully read these threads so that they can understand
the depths of the management failure that is the Skulltag community.
SoulPriestess said:
PROVE ME WRONG! Prove to me ... that you are mature enough to voice your opinion, without looking like a total jackass (that is - being honest, and not using insults and saying OMG ERUANNA AND METALHEAD ARE RETARDED - which by the way has already been said so many times)
Infurnus said:
You first.
stewboy said:
Well, to be fair, she wasn't the first one to be insulting in this particular thread.
SoulPriestess said:
Alright. You win one point. No insult in that at all. Good job.
Now, I challenge you to answer me this... with everything completely out in the open, and people completely up in your business, and the need to remove trolls and cheaters to keep things sane (and to keep the port alive) - and with people criticizing your EVERY step... how would you go about this? Knowing full well that no matter what you do - there's going to be a shit fest.
Craigs said:
This is pathetic Eruanna. You can't even make one post that doesn't immediately contradict yourself. Come back when you can think straight.
SoulPriestess said:
Alright. You win one point. No insult in that at all. Good job.
Now, I challenge you to answer me this... with everything completely out in the open, and people completely up in your business, and the need to remove trolls and cheaters to keep things sane (and to keep the port alive) - and with people criticizing your EVERY step... how would you go about this? Knowing full well that no matter what you do - there's going to be a shit fest.
Hello. I am a representative of the Society of Combating and Prevention of Tired Cliches. (S.C.P.T.C.)
According to subsection 92z, column H, the current discussion (Internet
Drama as pertaining to status of one or several members of moderator,
admin or other position of importance.) is part of or a whole cliche
which may be described as tired or overused. As part of my authority
given to me by S.C.P.T.C. I am hereby changing the topic to one less
used on the Internet.
The topic is now about writing new captions for Family Circus cartoons.
The cartoon is as follows.
Thank you, and have a nice thread.
Infurnus said:
Yes she was. http://www.doomworld.com/vb/showthr...1030#post901030
SoulPriestess said:
Now, I challenge you to answer me this... with everything completely out in the open, and people completely up in your business, and the need to remove trolls and cheaters to keep things sane (and to keep the port alive) - and with people criticizing your EVERY step... how would you go about this?
DoomCup said:
I would welcome the criticism. It's the right of the members of a community to question and criticize the actions of their superiors. As for the "trolls and cheaters" bringing a "shitfest", I think these are a small price to pay for transparency and accountability.
I'm questioning the authority of your posting.
Revenant said:
I'd grow some skin and do my job. Maybe figure out why people are "criticizing my every step" and see if that actually holds some merit instead of sweeping everything under a rug and playing "pay no attention to the man behind the curtain."
People have the right to question authority. If one doesn't recognize and welcome this fact then they can hardly be called a useful leader.
SoulPriestess said:
I do not regard myself as a "superior."
Revenant said:
Then stop acting as one.
SoulPriestess said:
I do not regard myself as a "superior." I never asked for this elevated status.
Carnevil said:
Right. You just took it for yourself.
I like where this thread is going. And I agree with carn.
I don't! there's so much hostility! It doesn't belong here!
stewboy said:
See: posts by Craigs, John Smith, Bank, Mr T, Mr Freeze.
SoulPriestess said:
I am in no way better than they are. Any admin of any community would do good to remember that. Even managers at different workplaces could afford to adopt that.
I'm not.
<Eruanna> the Skulltag community itself, at large, cannot handle such
<Eruanna> And treating them like adults has magically made everything better?
LALA
The proper way to run a forum is to wait until you are in a good mood
before responding to people who are being immature. People don't need
to be answered in 10 minutes. This is not tech support. If you run the
forum, you don't have to race to post before the topic is locked, like I
am right now, but I'm not a moderator here so I don't have that luxury.
Both Eruanna and people who criticize her are people who have
contributed much to the Doom community. But internet arguments aren't a
race. I think when we get upset, we all need to step back and say
"Okay, I disagree with you. Let me think about it and get back to you in
a day."
And I'm disappointed in all of the people who are using this topic to
get some cheap laughs while poking fun at everyone who lost their cool.
Everyone snaps once in a while, that's part of being human.
The skulltag community is not even half as unstable and immature as it's made up to be anyway.
No craigs that's ignorant! You're being ignorant! the skulltag admins are only doing what's best for the community!
Craigs said:
ignorant children.
Carnevil said:
LALA
Carnevil said:
LALA
As the offer of captioning Family Circus comics didn't seem to be of
interest to the present company, I'd like to offer a Garfield strip
instead. An image editing program may be needed in order to apply
captions to the now empty speech and thought bubbles.
Sincerely,
Spadger Z. LolStrogg,
3rd rank thread topic enhancer
S.C.P.T.C
You meant to say before the ninja edit:
Carnevil said:
LALA
Carnevil said:
You took advantage of a situation in which some people were experiencing page loading errors and got Rivecoder to turn control of the entire site to you
There was a reason for the ninja edit. There are late-breaking developments in this story. More to come later!
spoiler - highlight to read:
Carnevil knew too much and now he's revealed too much and now the Skulltag team is coming to kill him
Da Spadger said:
Hello. I am a representative of the Society of Combating and Prevention of Tired Cliches. (S.C.P.T.C.)
According to subsection 92z, column H, the current discussion (Internet Drama as pertaining to status of one or several members of moderator, admin or other position of importance.) is part of or a whole cliche which may be described as tired or overused. As part of my authority given to me by S.C.P.T.C. I am hereby changing the topic to one less used on the Internet.
The topic is now about writing new captions for Family Circus cartoons.
The cartoon is as follows.
Thank you, and have a nice thread.
Well I'm glad there is more to come later Carn!
Carnevil said:
You took advantage of a situation in which some people were experiencing page loading errors and got Rivecoder to turn control of the entire site to you
Next thing you know, SoulPriestess and MetalHead will be the admins of Project Vega as well!
Craigs said:
Carnevil knew too much and now he's revealed too much and now the Skulltag team is coming to kill him
Doom Marine said:
Next thing you know, SoulPriestess and MetalHead will be the admins of Project Vega as well!
http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/...lotthicknes.png
THE PLOT THICKENS
IT THICKENS MORE
Skulltag forum is now conveniently down for maintenance less than an hour after I post links to skulltag threads. J Edgar Hoover would like to present the skulltag modmins a lifetime achievement award for hiding information.
We need doom radio now more than ever. Bank! Get in here!
40oz said:
We need doom radio now more than ever. Bank! Get in here!
We need to all sit down and play some Odamex more than ever!
Craigs said:
http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/...lotthicknes.png
THE PLOT THICKENS
Catman847 said:
Damnit Craigs, I spent about 30 seconds wondering why the "Try Again" button didn't work.
That kinda looks like Essel is saying "F SkuLlLag." But interesting nontheless.
I call bullshit - that cat's too fat to be Garfield!
Da Spadger said:
http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/5162/garfield78.gif
Neat. I guess that tells us what the admins here think about all this: the same thing as everyone else here thinks about this.
Lol skulltag
EDIT: Set Abominae has shown me the light of GodJesus and set me straight.
Needs Stalin or Che.
EDIT: Set Abominae has shown me the light of GodJesus and set me straight.
I don't come to the DoomWorld forums often. Not unless something
important [and/or utterly pointless] is going on. Today's visit brings
me here to find this thread. After taking two long hours to read through
the log Esselfortium provided and reading through the entire thread, I
have 3 things to say.
1) I understand Essel's point of view, why he felt alienated and why he
decided to leave the SkullTag staff team. However, I can't see the need
for a public, drama-filled [not to mention trolled] thread.
2) I understand the position of Eruanna, Metal, and the rest of the
SkullTag staff. It's true, you can't please everyone and I can clearly
see why they are so easy to offend and make angry. However, I believe
the criticism of the community can be handled better.
3) Those who are here only to poke fun and laugh at others need to get
the fuck out - this is serious discussion and your posts do not
contribute [whether you believe so or not] to the thread, the forum, the
problem OR the doom community in general.
In conclusion, doomers, please make sure to not turn things into a
genuine trollfest in the future. And remember kids [and adults for that
matter], this is the internet. No matter what side of the fence you
stand on, in the end, it means absolutely nothing in the real world. So
cry me a river, build me a bridge and GET THE FUCK OVER IT.
Set Abominae said:And remember kids [and adults for that matter], this is the internet. No matter what side of the fence you stand on, in the end, it means absolutely nothing in the real world.
stewboy said:
Wrong, but let's not get into that.
Things are going to be super fun tomorrow.
ALMN said:
http://gyazo.com/a4d65335cd1f7c4726b84db4a829c1eb.png
Set Abominae said:
3) Those who are here only to poke fun and laugh at others need to get the fuck out - this is serious discussion and your posts do not contribute [whether you believe so or not] to the thread, the forum, the problem OR the doom community in general.
Lizardcommando said:
Shouldn't you be using the sickle and hammer symbol instead of the swastika if you're using that typeface?
Arg, so this is why the forums are down? How many times have we had
the forum close down because of a bitchfest in the IRC? I'm not saying
who's wrong or right here but taking the entire community down because
of one little bump in the staff is a little annoying, especially for
people who want to actually use the forum for something like editing
reference. :(
If it's down for actual maintenance, then disregard this post.
Wait...am I actually slightly agreeing with Carn?
Did just seriously download ZDaemon?
OH GOD HELP I'M STEPPING INTO THE TWILIGHT ZONE
Posting in epic thread.
See, this is why I post on DW exclusively these days. All the other
corners of the Doom community are run by tin-pot dictators from their
moms' basements.
Here's my take on the whole thing:
Lizardcommando said:
Shouldn't you be using the sickle and hammer symbol instead of the swastika if you're using that typeface?
Mr. Freeze said:
Did just seriously download ZDaemon?
Being a previous member of Skulltag Staff, I'll give my opinion about
this. It'll be with a logical view, and not biased towards any side
(Quite frankly, I'm not to fond of either party, no offense intended).
Personally, I think this whole event was taken way out of proportion by
the rest of the staff. If you wanted to keep the ban thing private to
prevent any drama that may occur, then it would have helped to be fully
straightforward about it to essel.
Now, in regards to the ban discussion, I propose a solution (which will
be forwarded to Skulltag's administration once the forums return). Just
have a list of all IPs banned, the name that was banned, and the
reasoning. Then, have that thread locked. People will be able to see why
X was banned, without having a place to spew their drama. I would also
suggest an addition to the rules about this, so that people do not start
"UNBAN X" crusades again, and give clear-cut punishments for disobeying
this rule (Maybe 1. Verbal Warning, 2. Forum Warning, 3. Purgatory, 4.
Temporary Ban, 5. Permanent Ban). Hopefully, this will alleviate some of
the people wondering about these shadow bans.
All in all, I think that taking this whole escapade to Doomworld may
have been a bad idea, but the way that a few people were acting (Like
Soul Priestess in this very thread) was just as bad.
<insert casual opinions from an unbiased third party>
After several pages of reading I'm still having trouble finding an
explanation for why the discussion of bans shouldn't be permitted.
Censorship is a dangerous road to walk in an online community, you might
have noticed that people grow accustomed to being able to say whatever
they want on the internet and they get a bit annoyed if you try to take
that away from them. I'm not suggesting there's an easy answer, but
people are still going to ask the question whether you like it or not.
You'll also have noticed that "because I say so" usually doesn't help.
As for trolling in the thread, it's generally accepted practice here. A
small price to pay for freedom of speech. It also serves as a form of
community self-policing, where a hostile environment means you better
know what you're talking about before you say it, or the community will
rip you apart for it. It's not pretty, but it's surprisingly effective,
heh.
As a side note, it seems we have a pretty fickle community here, as last
I recall it was Carn who was the big baddie in all this and everyone
was queueing up to give him a good bashing about his style of
leadership, yet now we're all for it if he's posting in contast to the
current admins. Or perhaps it's just an excuse for some easy trolling,
who knows? Maybe it's all just "lol internets".
Catman847 said:
All in all, I think that taking this whole escapade to Doomworld may have been a bad idea, but the way that a few people were acting (Like Soul Priestess in this very thread) was just as bad.
DooMAD said:
To be fair, Essel probably wouldn't have felt it necessary to take the discussion anywhere if discussion was actually permitted in the Skulltag community.
A long, long time ago the Skulltag staff was small and harmonious,
and the community was significantly less retarded and contributed a lot
back. Watching the steady descent into idiocy over the past six years
has been very entertaining and informative as to how not to run an
online community. Namely, don't treat it like it's serious business.
Once people get the ideas in their heads that mod or admin status
somehow translates into actual power over people, it's all over.
As an Admin on ST forums all those years ago I think I probably locked
something minuscule like 2 topics and made more than 1000 posts. If your
community somehow finds a need to lock topics with the frequency of the
ST forums, you can usually tell something has gone very, very wrong,
and people are taking discussion about a teenaged video game way too
seriously.
Shaikoten said:
A long, long time ago the Skulltag staff was small and harmonious, and the community was significantly less retarded and contributed a lot back. Watching the steady descent into idiocy over the past six years has been very entertaining and informative as to how not to run an online community. Namely, don't treat it like it's serious business. Once people get the ideas in their heads that mod or admin status somehow translates into actual power over people, it's all over.
As an Admin on ST forums all those years ago I think I probably locked something minuscule like 2 topics and made more than 1000 posts. If your community somehow finds a need to lock topics with the frequency of the ST forums, you can usually tell something has gone very, very wrong, and people are taking discussion about a teenaged video game way too seriously.
I cannot speak for the Skulltag admins or their reasons, but my short experience in the Skulltag community indicates that discussion about bans results is more people doing things to get banned. Certainly it would be ideal if everyone could have a reasoned discussion about why so-and-so was banned, but that was not how it turned out. People started getting the idea that admins were elected representatives of the community or something, whose power needed to be kept in check by that community.
DooMAD said:
After several pages of reading I'm still having trouble finding an explanation for why the discussion of bans shouldn't be permitted.
Catman847 said:
Now, in regards to the ban discussion, I propose a solution (which will be forwarded to Skulltag's administration once the forums return). Just have a list of all IPs banned, the name that was banned, and the reasoning. Then, have that thread locked. People will be able to see why X was banned, without having a place to spew their drama. I would also suggest an addition to the rules about this, so that people do not start "UNBAN X" crusades again, and give clear-cut punishments for disobeying this rule (Maybe 1. Verbal Warning, 2. Forum Warning, 3. Purgatory, 4. Temporary Ban, 5. Permanent Ban). Hopefully, this will alleviate some of the people wondering about these shadow bans.
Qent said:
I cannot speak for the Skulltag admins or their reasons, but my short experience in the Skulltag community indicates that discussion about bans results is more people doing things to get banned. Certainly it would be ideal if everyone could have a reasoned discussion about why so-and-so was banned, but that was not how it turned out. People started getting the idea that admins were elected representatives of the community or something, whose power needed to be kept in check by that community.
What I find ironic about this is that the removal of public ban discussions was requested by the community. It was one of the few concrete results of the Community Discussion threads.
<Eruanna> I am the one who banned Decode - and I see *NO* reason *WHATSOEVER* to have a discussion about it. People need to learn to deal with shit. And essel - no offense - but you've been in Doomworld a lot longer than you've been here - I don't think you really have much of an idea how things work here.
SoulPriestess said:
/me rolls eyes
I was not hostile. Do you need your coat trimmed? I bet you could make a lot of wool.
I'm not going to even begin posting about how poorly this was handled
by both communities since nobody wants to hear some unknown schmuck
preach what we already know.
As for the actual argument, I think Shai's logic would have worked for
it. I don't think the staff should be outright obligated to post public
bans and reasons in a format every time it happens, but I also think
that making it a rule to hide it from other users is just as silly. It
should have just been a bit casual (depending on the situation). If a
civil user asks the staff at a reasonable time why a user was banned,
the staff member could choose to answer it if he or she feels like it.
Eventually it would come out since nobody would be making an attempt to
hide it. But given the way the community works, I wouldn't be surprised
if it has user after user asking the same exact question and we can all
agree that would become annoying. In that instance it probably wouldn't
be answered, but again, it doesn't mean that it would be hidden. It's
just too many rules about common sense.
SoulPriestess said:
I do not regard myself as a "superior." I never asked for this elevated status.
Carnevil said:
Right. You just took it for yourself.
Idiots say:
PERHAPS A FORUM ISN'T THE BSET PLACE FOR DRAMA BLUH BLUR DE DUR
I think it's a huge shame that Doom, the game that was once the
refuge for rebels, free thinkers, and outcasts, now has as its
multiplayer ambassadors Skulltag and ZDaemon - the administrations for
which actively practice censorship and pursue personal vendettas. It's
beyond pathetic to the point of comedy that anyone would get so worked
up over a video game, and essel probably made the right call in walking
away.
Fortunately, Odamex will
never ban you, because it doesn't have a ban list. You're free to play
Odamex how you like, and you're free to say whatever you like about
Odamex and the people who write it, because they're not assholes, and
they really couldn't do anything to you anyway.
Odamex is also licensed under the GPL, so anyone interested in looking at the source is free to do so.
And of course, those interested in contributing should contact the dev
team on IRC (irc.oftc.net, #odamex). Let's help Odamex become the best
multiplayer Doom port!
I should also make it clear I don't speak for Odamex in any capacity.
My affiliation consists of contributing exactly 1 patch yesterday. But I
had a huge amount of fun working with the dev team, and I would hope
that others would have the same or more fun as I did.
ClonedPickle said back on page 1:
<ClonedPickle> then perhaps we should halt the conversation until your mood has improved
too bad this didn't happen at all
Posting in epic thread.
Skulltag is the only sourceport I use regularly (Coming from someone who
doesn't map or mod at all). If it dies, I won't be happy...
EDIT: Well, someone didn't want the Joker's Popcorn littering the thread.
You struck the nail on the head.
Ladna said:
I think it's a huge shame that Doom, the game that was once the refuge for rebels, free thinkers, and outcasts, now has as its multiplayer ambassadors Skulltag and ZDaemon
Shaikoten said:
A long, long time ago the Skulltag staff was small and harmonious, and the community was significantly less retarded and contributed a lot back. Watching the steady descent into idiocy over the past six years has been very entertaining and informative as to how not to run an online community. Namely, don't treat it like it's serious business. Once people get the ideas in their heads that mod or admin status somehow translates into actual power over people, it's all over.
As an Admin on ST forums all those years ago I think I probably locked something minuscule like 2 topics and made more than 1000 posts. If your community somehow finds a need to lock topics with the frequency of the ST forums, you can usually tell something has gone very, very wrong, and people are taking discussion about a teenaged video game way too seriously.
zap610 said:
I'm not going to even begin posting about how poorly this was handled by both communities since nobody wants to hear some unknown schmuck preach what we already know.
Bucket said:
For me, this seems to be the Year of Calling People on Their Shit.
And really, a public forum is the MOST appropriate place for that. Some people who are poisonous to a community are allowed to continue their retarded ways simply BECAUSE this sort of issue stays in the dark.
Ladna said:
Fortunately, Odamex will never ban you, because it doesn't have a ban list. You're free to play Odamex how you like, and you're free to say whatever you like about Odamex and the people who write it, because they're not assholes, and they really couldn't do anything to you anyway.
Odamex is also licensed under the GPL, so anyone interested in looking at the source is free to do so. And of course, those interested in contributing should contact the dev team on IRC (irc.oftc.net, #odamex). Let's help Odamex become the best multiplayer Doom port!
I should also make it clear I don't speak for Odamex in any capacity. My affiliation consists of contributing exactly 1 patch yesterday. But I had a huge amount of fun working with the dev team, and I would hope that others would have the same or more fun as I did.
Staff still doesn't like reasoning about telling the community who's banned.
«20:51:52» {@c} 10:46 < FREE_WHOEVER_IS_BANNED> if we don't know who's banned, how could we spot anyone who's ban evading?
«20:51:55» {@c} Leave that to the mods
«20:52:01» {ALMN_} what if the mods are gone?
«20:52:08» {ALMN_} By the time they get back, it'll be like they weren't even there!
«20:52:09» {@c} PM a mod?
«20:52:22» {ALMN_} How can you pm a mod about someone who's ban evading if we aren't allowed to know who's banned?
«20:52:32» {ALMN_} We won't be able to tell who's ban evading without knowing who's banned.
«20:52:35» {ALMN_} which is my main point
«20:52:37» {ALMN_} and has been
«20:52:38» {ALMN_} for a while
«21:24:25» {@ALMN_} «21:08:40» {Metal} If you want to paste this, feel free. I do want everyone to know why.
«21:24:25» {@ALMN_} «21:09:18» {Metal} Back before the community grew, it was easy enough to say "Yes, this person was banned for this, and he will be back at this time"
«21:24:25» {@ALMN_} «21:09:29» {Metal} But as the community grew, of course, so did the jerks.
«21:24:25» {@ALMN_} «21:09:37» {ALMN_} it's in the package
«21:24:25» {@ALMN_} «21:09:42» {Metal} Explaining why someone is banned now, turns into a flamewar almost every single time.
«21:24:25» {@ALMN_} «21:09:55» {Metal} For the time being, I didn't want to deal with it anymore, so *I* made the rule.
«21:24:25» {@ALMN_} «21:10:02» {Metal} I wanted to try it out, just like we do with many other things.
«21:24:25» {@ALMN_} «21:10:07» {Metal} Honestly
«21:24:25» {@ALMN_} «21:10:08» {ALMN_} makes sense
«21:24:25» {@ALMN_} «21:10:15» {Metal} I don't mind explaining it to someone who is going to be rational.
«21:24:25» {@ALMN_} «21:10:17» {ALMN_} i wouldn't want to deal with PMs sayin "unban so-and-so"
«21:24:25» {@ALMN_} «21:10:19» {Metal} But getting this...
«21:24:25» {@ALMN_} «21:10:27» {Metal} "Why is this person banned"
«21:24:25» {@ALMN_} «21:10:35» {Metal} "Because they broke this rule"
«21:24:25» {@ALMN_} «21:10:40» {Metal} "AGH YOU'RE SO NAZI"
«21:24:25» {@ALMN_} «21:10:53» {Metal} Then they would proceed to go on a charade.
«21:24:58» {@ALMN_} «21:11:52» {ALMN_} Did you see catman's post?
«21:24:59» {@ALMN_} «21:12:04» {Metal} Yes.
«21:24:59» {@ALMN_} «21:12:30» {ALMN_} I think after this whole thing mostly blows over, you guys should try doing things the way catman said for a little bit
«21:24:59» {@ALMN_} «21:12:34» {ALMN_} just to see how things go
«21:24:59» {@ALMN_} «21:13:16» {Metal} Public banlist?
«21:24:59» {@ALMN_} «21:13:57» {ALMN_} something like that
«21:24:59» {@ALMN_} «21:14:24» {ALMN_} Like i said in the thread and more recently in #skulltag, the community should have a way of knowing who's banned, so they could spot ban evaders.
«21:24:59» {@ALMN_} «21:14:53» {Metal} I see.
«21:24:59» {@ALMN_} «21:15:00» {Metal} Then I might take the rule out itself.
«21:24:59» {@ALMN_} «21:15:07» {ALMN_} That's pretty much the only reason I can think of to have it public though, i don't know about everyone else's opinions about it.
«21:24:59» {@ALMN_} «21:15:41» {Metal} Well, I'll try and see what I can do.
«21:24:59» {@ALMN_} «21:15:50» {Metal} I just want all this fixed and everyone to calm down.
Mine will be different - it'll be run from a shed in the backyard. :)
Danarchy said:
See, this is why I post on DW exclusively these days. All the other corners of the Doom community are run by tin-pot dictators from their moms' basements.
I have to say, this is the most entertaining reading in Doomworld I've ever read since CJwright got banned :)
Bank said:
parody ad
Call now!
Hmm, seems that every time I'm without an internet connection for a couple of days, some sort of hugely massive dispute occurs. I'll bet if I were to go to the Bahamas for a week, we'd have World War III. ;)
«21:10:19» {Metal} But getting this...
«21:10:27» {Metal} "Why is this person banned"
«21:10:35» {Metal} "Because they broke this rule"
«21:10:40» {Metal} "AGH YOU'RE SO NAZI"
«21:10:53» {Metal} Then they would proceed to go on a charade.
Belial said:
See this is what I don't get.
"They" ask a question, get a clear answer, who gives a shit about what "they" do afterwards.
http://www.skulltag.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=26625
And there you go. The thrilling anti-climax to this episode.
I still came.
Lol, I really didn't think it'd go this far. At least Essel hasn't been
successfully demonized for, you know, doing the right thing.
Cool.
A day before the change over:
code:
[02:56] <Ralphis> here's my prediction [02:56] <Ralphis> skulltag is going back to skulltag.com [02:56] <Ralphis> im calling it [02:59] <Carnevil> Do you always jump to conclusions [02:59] <Ralphis> I just ruined your surprise [02:59] <Carnevil> Yeah, I'm getting it all back. And also magic unicorns are flying out of the sky!
Ralphis said:
Praise me
Ralphis said:
Praise me
Everytime Ralphis rears his ugly head, it causes a Skulltag revolution.
I knew that thing that flew by my window wasn't just a pigeon...
<<a>Carnevil> Yeah, I'm getting it all back. And also magic unicorns are flying out of the sky!
It looks like you've also inherited Eruanna's IP ban list. Is there any likelihood of the policy to block entire dynamic IP address ranges being reviewed and/or a working contact address being added to the ban information page?
Carnevil said:
http://www.skulltag.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=26625
And there you go. The thrilling anti-climax to this episode.
YOU ARE HUGE! THAT MEANS YOU HAVE HUGE GUTS!
Ralphis said:
Praise me
Eruannus said:
Lastly, I'd like to state fully and clearly, that despite the rumors that may go around, the recent departure of one of our moderators had very little to do with my decision to step down - in fact, it was only "the straw that broke the camel's back." Before rumors start circulating that he's the one who caused it... I'd like to make it clear that I had been planning this for a very long time.
Ralphis said:
Praise me
Mattfrie1 said:
♪ I have to celebrate you baby,I have to praise you like I should ♪
+1 internets to anyone who gets the reference.
Ralphis said:
Praise me
Mr. T said:
Pssst did you hear, Eruanna quit because Essel departed recently
It's an odd time when Carn regaining control of Skulltag is good news.
Just joking Carn, congrats :)
Hey, Carn. Congratulations. Don't fuck it up again.
hey guys I havent in been in the community lately due to health
reasons, I'm glad to see that everyone has finally put their differences
aside and stopped causing pointless drama over ....
oh
...backs away slowly...
Now she can go back to being a full-time carpet cruncher.
Danarchy said:
Yeah, sure, she was planning it all along. Lawl, damage control.
Now it's making sense.
Use3D said:
Now she can go back to being a full-time carpet cruncher.
I for one am proud to call myself an esselfortium yes man sheep.
Now you've finished with this Skulltag bollocks you'll have the time to finish KDiKDiZD, right?
Yeah, this is kinda why I stayed away from the Skulltag community. But I think I'll be getting back to it soon...
*waits impatiently for ststaff.wad*
GooberMan said:
*waits impatiently for ststaff.wad*
Perhaps she is gay and all, but if it really makes sense, then Use3D should be acting in a girlie manner.
Technician said:
Now it's making sense.
ALMN said:
Play ALMNwad while you wait!
Posting in epic thread.
GooberMan said:
*waits impatiently for ststaff.wad*
Coming soon... Skulltag DLC for CIF3!
Csonicgo said:
I have to admit that wad is hilarious shit. Thanks for making it.
Just read through this whole thread.
This deserves it's own two-hour TV Movie.
/me wanders into "blogs"
Holy shit. The entire time I was reading this, I was preparing massive
wall-of-text replies in my mind. And then... it's done. Euranna is gone,
Carn gets his port back, and... well. Perhaps things will settle down a
bit.
Ah, Skulltag. How I love it so. The .exe, at least. Its community,
however, is mixed. There is little or no trolling in the servers
(although I don't play Ghouls v Humans or All out War; perhaps things
are different there). The IRC is a good place to hang out. The clan
scene is decent, and people are willing to help out mappers in need.
Oh, and props to Torr for not getting into another shitfest. The guy
knows how to keep his head down. If only Carn, Torr, and Rivecoder could
reunite. Productivity would shoot through the roof.
Like a circle in a spiral, like a wheel within a wheel
Never ending or beginning on an ever spinning reel
Like a snowball down a mountain or a carnival balloon
Like a carousel that's turning running rings around the moon
Like a clock whose hands are sweeping past the minutes of its face
And the world is like an apple whirling silently in space
Like the drama that you find from the Skulltag mastermind........
I was momentarily debating if i was gonna go to what music are you listening to or this thread first. And I went here, but when I was reading this I thought I was in the other thread. Did you write those lyrics are they to a song? They're pretty good.
Szymanski said:
Like a circle in a spiral, like a wheel within a wheel
Never ending or beginning on an ever spinning reel
Like a snowball down a mountain or a carnival balloon
Like a carousel that's turning running rings around the moon
Like a clock whose hands are sweeping past the minutes of its face
And the world is like an apple whirling silently in space
Like the drama that you find from the Skulltag mastermind........
http://www.stlyrics.com/lyrics/thet...sofyourmind.htm
Alternatively: http://tinyurl.com/327gg7j
Hellbent said:
Did you write those lyrics
I learned something today!
esselfortium said:
(For the audience at home, Eruanna and SoulPriestess are the same person!)
Da Spadger said:
The topic is now about writing new captions for Family Circus cartoons.
The cartoon is as follows.
This is why everything I post here is just stupid jokes, heh.
DooMAD said:
It also serves as a form of community self-policing, where a hostile environment means you better know what you're talking about before you say it, or the community will rip you apart for it. It's not pretty, but it's surprisingly effective, heh.
Ugh, the "it's just Doom and the idiots who still play it" argument. People take Doom and its community seriously, and have strong feelings about it. There's still a way to be civil.
Shaikoten said:
Namely, don't treat it like it's serious business. Once people get the ideas in their heads that mod or admin status somehow translates into actual power over people, it's all over.
As an Admin on ST forums all those years ago I think I probably locked something minuscule like 2 topics and made more than 1000 posts. If your community somehow finds a need to lock topics with the frequency of the ST forums, you can usually tell something has gone very, very wrong, and people are taking discussion about a teenaged video game way too seriously.
lol it's the Simpsons episode where Burns goes to jail and the plant is all WOOHOO SMITHERS then they piss Smithers off and he gets meaner than Burns was so Homer and the gang break him out of jail
Creaphis said:
It's an odd time when Carn regaining control of Skulltag is good news.
DuckReconMajor said:
Ugh, the "it's just Doom and the idiots who still play it" argument. People take Doom and its community seriously, and have strong feelings about it. There's still a way to be civil.
where's some TFT, goddamit?!
All of this drama has occurred at the worst possible time for me to
make a TFT, it would seem. I may make a belated one though, the demand
has been very high. Besides, Soulpriestess is very fun to draw:
DuckReconMajor said:
ok poop is coming out
http://www.doomworld.com/vb/showthr...8497#post898497
DuckReconMajor said:
http://www.doomworld.com/vb/showthr...8497#post898497
Just popping in to thank everyone for the most entertainment I've had on these boards since the GZDoom shitfight. I just wish I had Kaiser's leet scripting skills...
Re: My resignation from Skulltag staff.
esselfortium said:
I now no longer doubt the horror stories I've heard from other former staff members.
Yup,... I think we made a difference here.
scalliano said:
Just popping in to thank everyone for the most entertainment I've had on these boards since the GZDoom shitfight. I just wish I had Kaiser's leet scripting skills...
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