Plagued COVID Conspiracy Theorists and other idiots - This is not a political thunderdome or gay slapfight thread.

[Übertroon]

Mandate -> More Vaccinated -> Less Severe COVID -> Less Hospital Flooding -> Less Excess Deaths

and I take it you have some issue with... capitalism? Pharmaceutical industries? The private sector created the vast majority drugs, medicines, and vaccines compared to the public sector. Is that your concern?

But so how does that translate into the individual having enough fear of death to want to be that guy who goes around promoting mandates? I also see the rational that people use to justify mandates because it'll have less grannies dying a month earlier, but is there actually any substance to the policy making? Victory has at least been declared three times at this point, the largest newspaper where I live stopped updating hospital and death numbers last month even though there has never been as many hospitalizations and deaths than it was at that stage. Not saying it's a conspiracy, but I haven't exactly been impressed by the policy making
And the pfizer comment was merely a jab, considering half of europe has already declared all mandates and quarantines over, so the people currently pushing for more vaccines is honestly just doing pfizer's marketing for free

You are the dumbest piece of shit “troll” that I have seen on this thread for some time, congrats. Yes, the vaccines do help. Yes, it stops hospitals from being over-flooded with patients. Yes, it can help stop infections. Yes, your boss can mandate anything he or she wants. Yes, you have the right to go work somewhere else if you don’t like it No, what you are saying in this thread has nothing to do with the subject matter on hand. No, you aren’t clever. No, you aren’t providing anything to your arguments besides “gobberment badddd!!” Which has nothing to do with conspiracy theories (which is the whole point of this thread).

That's a lot of claims and not a lot of substance, you still haven't given a reason for why someone should fear death, and it's not exactly convincing to just repeat that the vaccine can stop a non specific and undefined quantity of infections based on statements you heard on tv last night

 

[Rich Evans Ayypologist]

educated decisions

We've got schools of public health, infectious diseases, medical schools, and pharmaceutical schools that all serve as either the talent farms to government agencies in charge of these things and as policy advisors to the drafting of rules and regulations. To use the favorite punching bag, Fauci graduated first in his class with a Doctor of Medicine degree from Weill Cornell Medicine.

You are suggesting that all of these bodies are not, in fact, educated.

try to quantify the chance of dying from covid with a vaccine mandate then compared to no mandate, literally impossible,

You can, in fact, model this. They are not perfect models, because perfect models are an oxymoron; searching for "perfect statistics" is a fundamental misunderstanding (first acquaintance?) with what a statistic is. You sample similar demographics who have been vaccinated and who have not been vaccinated, observe the death toll, and then try to quantify how much of an increase in total vaccinations occur due to a vaccine mandate. You use anonymous polling of the demographic in order to get an idea of what that increase might look like, based on respondents' answers to questions such as "how likely are you, 1-5, to get a vaccine if your employer requires you to?" yadda yadda

You then run this test on a bunch of different demographics and age-ranges to produce a decent range of values that oscillates around the (nefarious) p-value of your choice, establish bounds of possible standard deviations or inaccuracies, and you then publish the report either to those schools of public health, infectious diseases, medical schools, and pharmaceutical schools or to the publishing journals that their members have access to, which are then used in consultations with government policymakers.

Victory has at least been declared three times at this point,

By CNN-Fox tier media outlets, I guess. Every reputable health official has from the onset in 2020 stressed cyclical, endemic qualities to the virus. During the summer of 2020, they stressed that caseloads would explode in the autumn and then again over the holiday break. And they did. Then they did again. The development of delta or omicron (not in name, obviously) was suggested by anyone with the barest understanding of how viruses bloody work, who had the littlest bit of attention paid over at Africa, Latin America, Southeast Asia. The existence and use of booster shots for an endemic disease was discussed so soon as the virus was declared to likely be endemic. I guess it probably wasn't on twitter, idk

Less Excess Deaths

Archive is being a real cunt today, but the phrase excess deaths is using actual terminology here. Slow down there partner, you really think they've read anything remotely like this? Think they could really make it through this many words? Would have the patience to read out methodology? Would be able to parse even the littlest of detail from the entire methodology and ML algorithm to generate a prediction of excess deaths being made fully transparent and open?

Excess deaths is a concept that none of them are going to acknowledge, because to them, there were barely any deaths to speak of. All of those people would've died anyways, and besides, it isn't even 1% of the population so that means it hardly matters, right? They are statistical masters of analysis, so you've got to get on that level.

 

[Wormy]

just don't force us to live your way. Let us live our lives the way we want to live. But you can't do that can you?

Pot: Hey kettle, you really black, nigga.

Jail the fags. Jail the troons. Patriot Act. Citizens United case. Kick the niggers out of our stores. WHITE SHARIA NAO. All while crying about people not letting you live your lives. Eat shit.

 

[Kerr Avon]

I used to find Ralph's ability to retain paypigs puzzling , but after seeing the prevalence of the wigger mentality in the trucker thread , I understand it a bit more.

 

[Übertroon]

We've got schools of public health, infectious diseases, medical schools, and pharmaceutical schools that all serve as either the talent farms to government agencies in charge of these things and as policy advisors to the drafting of rules and regulations. To use the favorite punching bag, Fauci graduated first in his class with a Doctor of Medicine degree from Weill Cornell Medicine.

You are suggesting that all of these bodies are not, in fact, educated.

Educated people can make decisions based on a lack of solid information. Fauci has been wrong before and he will be wrong again. Remember when the vaccine was supposedly 95% effective? He has of course adjusted his statements, but it was clearly a uneducated guesstimate based on whatever was told to him at that point

You can, in fact, model this. They are not perfect models, because perfect models are an oxymoron; searching for "perfect statistics" is a fundamental misunderstanding (first acquaintance?) with what a statistic is. You sample similar demographics who have been vaccinated and who have not been vaccinated, observe the death toll, and then try to quantify how much of an increase in total vaccinations occur due to a vaccine mandate. You use anonymous polling of the demographic in order to get an idea of what that increase might look like, based on respondents' answers to questions such as "how likely are you, 1-5, to get a vaccine if your employer requires you to?" yadda yadda

You then run this test on a bunch of different demographics and age-ranges to produce a decent range of values that oscillates around the (nefarious) p-value of your choice, establish bounds of possible standard deviations or inaccuracies, and you then publish the report either to those schools of public health, infectious diseases, medical schools, and pharmaceutical schools or to the publishing journals that their members have access to, which are then used in consultations with government policymakers.

Nobody has presented any model showing they're at any elevated risk though, so I was presuming that people weren't fearing for their lives based on a a projection model, but rather a notion based on wherever they're getting their news from

 

[Wormy]

Fauci has been wrong before and he will be wrong again.

The weather forecast has been wrong before. That means meteorology is a quack science and we need to go back to reading the spilled guts of cows!

One other thing; you do know a virus doesn't have to kill you to royally fuck you up, right? It's not "Nothing or Death". What doesn't kill you makes you stronger ain't medical fact.

 

[323758]

Pot: Hey kettle, you really black, nigga.

Jail the fags. Jail the troons. Patriot Act. Citizens United case. Kick the niggers out of our stores. WHITE SHARIA NAO. All while crying about people not letting you live your lives. Eat shit.

These are the same people currently burning and banning books. Fuck them.

 

[Wormy]

These are the same people currently burning and banning books. Fuck them.

Ahhhh, yes, the "We're just against CRT, it's not like we're going against learning about the civil rights movement or the holocaust!" then proceeds to try and ban Maus and texts on Martin Luther King Jr.

 

[Übertroon]

The weather forecast has been wrong before. That means meteorology is a quack science and we need to go back to reading the spilled guts of cows!

One other thing; you do know a virus doesn't have to kill you to royally fuck you up, right? It's not "Nothing or Death". What doesn't kill you makes you stronger ain't medical fact.

The weatherman isn't deciding government policy though, I'm sure more people would be upset if the weatherman could institute climate mandates based on bad information
And I'm sure there are people being crippled by the coof, but do you have any solid statistics on it that validates fear?

 

[Wormy]

The weatherman isn't deciding government policy though,

Someone's never heard of the National Weather Service...

And I'm sure there are people being crippled by the coof, but do you have any solid statistics on it that validates fear?

Nah, you already shot down your previous notion with what you just said, since you just admitted that people do get fucked up by it, yet all you were talking was the same tired "Death or Nothing" schpiel that so many try.

Besides, fear at this point is up to the individual. I don't fear it at all anymore. Neither does anyone around here, really. We don't wear masks, or any other restriction, and our vaxx attitude is "meh, if you want it, get it."

 

[Shek$il]

But so how does that translate into the individual having enough fear of death to want to be that guy who goes around promoting mandates? I also see the rational that people use to justify mandates

You're starting off all wrong here. I have zero concerns about being taken out by the coof. I care about the non-bugchasers with serious conditions not being able to get needed medical care because some primate read too much Facebook and now he can't breath and the hospital had to open a COVID ward to accommodate them all.

Victory has at least been declared three times at this point, the largest newspaper where I live stopped updating hospital and death numbers last month even though there has never been as many hospitalizations and deaths than it was at that stage.

Because Omicron is only "less severe" to people with antibodies via previous infection or vaccination probably. Many retarded people believe Omicron poses absolutely no threat at all to an unprotected set of lungs for some reason. Your newspaper being a rag doesn't contradict anything I've said.

Not saying it's a conspiracy, but I haven't exactly been impressed by the policy making
And the pfizer comment was merely a jab, considering half of europe has already declared all mandates and quarantines over, so the people currently pushing for more vaccines is honestly just doing pfizer's marketing for free

Then your problem is...?

 

[Linkola's IT Guy]

Pot: Hey kettle, you really black, nigga.

Jail the fags. Jail the troons. Patriot Act. Citizens United case. Kick the niggers out of our stores. WHITE SHARIA NAO. All while crying about people not letting you live your lives. Eat shit.

Your mistake was assuming that they believe in anything they say. American conservatives at this point is just a blatant grift and has no ideology besides owning the libs. They'll care about freedom whenever it helps them appease their corporate donors or rile up their base, it's that simple.

Ahhhh, yes, the "We're just against CRT, it's not like we're going against learning about the civil rights movement or the holocaust!" then proceeds to try and ban Maus and texts on Martin Luther King Jr.

Right after claiming that MLK was actually a based conservative who would have agreed with them.

 

[Übertroon]

Someone's never heard of the National Weather Service...

And what was their last attempt at pushing for a government mandate?

Nah, you already shot down your previous notion with what you just said, since you just admitted that people do get fucked up by it, yet all you were talking was the same tired "Death or Nothing" schpiel that so many try.

Besides, fear at this point is up to the individual. I don't fear it at all anymore. Neither does anyone around here, really. We don't wear masks, or any other restriction, and our vaxx attitude is "meh, if you want it, get it."

It's important to have solid statistics on these things because you can't justify a policy based on a unknown number of people being fucked up by the coof. Like is mandating self driving cars justified because a unkown number of people are getting mauled in traffic
And it's good that you don't live in fear, but I got curious when people in this thread actually did feel they were in mortal danger if there wasn't a mandate

 

[CreamyHerman’s]

Ahhhh, yes, the "We're just against CRT, it's not like we're going against learning about the civil rights movement or the holocaust!" then proceeds to try and ban Maus and texts on Martin Luther King Jr.

The maus thing is misinfo, it was removed from a curriculum from a school. Not a school system, but one school. Typically that means they don't want to keep paying the rights for a book, and not a conspiracy. Also when will you respond to me?

Added it in for more info.

 

[Linkola's IT Guy]

Because Omicron is only "less severe" to people with antibodies via previous infection or vaccination probably.

This is probably the case. I'm highly skeptical of studies comparing Omicron to previous waves because the population being exposed to Omicron already has significant vaccine or natural immunity. It's not like in 2020 when completely naive populations were being exposed to the wild type virus. There is no control group. Also, claiming that Omicron shows the virus "evolving to become less severe" is wrong. Yes, Omicron is less deadly than Delta according to the data. But Omicron didn't evolve from Delta. Delta was an example of the virus becoming both more transmissible and more deadly; Omicron is an example of the virus becoming more transmissible without much of a change in severity.

 

[Shek$il]

This is probably the case. I'm highly skeptical of studies comparing Omicron to previous waves because the population being exposed to Omicron already has significant vaccine or natural immunity. It's not like in 2020 when completely naive populations were being exposed to the wild type virus. There is no control group. Also, claiming that Omicron shows the virus "evolving to become less severe" is wrong. Yes, Omicron is less deadly than Delta according to the data. But Omicron didn't evolve from Delta. Delta was an example of the virus becoming both more transmissible and more deadly; Omicron is an example of the virus becoming more transmissible without much of a change in severity.

It's because they cling to any reason to not get the jab. If Omicron was proven deadlier than Delta the conclusion would not change, because it doesn't matter what mutation takes effect, the saps who dug their heels into substrata rock in order to not let the libs win would simply re-form their realities so getting vaccinated was once again the wrong answer.

 

[Wormy]

The maus thing is misinfo, it was removed from a curriculum from a school. Not a school system, but one school. Typically that means they don't want to keep paying the rights for a book, and not a conspiracy. Also when will you respond to me?

Bitch, I don't owe you nothin.

But yes, upon some more digging, it does seem to be the case, so I retract the Maus point.

 

[Rich Evans Ayypologist]

Educated people can make decisions based on a lack of solid information. Fauci has been wrong before and he will be wrong again. Remember when the vaccine was supposedly 95% effective? He has of course adjusted his statements, but it was clearly a uneducated guesstimate based on whatever was told to him at that point

Yes, they can. But this is educated schools, IE networks of people. Let me put it simply: they know better than you do on this topic. They know better than I do on this topic - they know better than any individual does on this topic. You may not like that fact, but if I break it down - they have studied it more than you have. They have worked in the fields longer than you have. They have spent a greater portion of their life dedicated to this problem than you have. There's more than one of them. And to hamstring the obvious counterpoint, medical schools aren't the ones pushing out troon dogma so much as very, very wealthy interest groups in liberal arts departments. The very, very wealthy interest groups have put a hush on med schools for the moment, but there's lots of murmurings from staff and faculty.

This doesn't mean that their policy prescriptions are right, as they clearly aren't making recommendations with regards for economic well-being. The bulk of early lockdowns' suffering was brunt by small businesses, so even as it was a proper thing to do from an infectious diseases standpoint, it was poor policymaking and badly balanced by the elected officials who needed to arbitrate the advice they were given. But to suggest that you know better than the advice that they were given is the kind of arrogance you don't get without being active on social media.

I also don't remember when the vaccine was 95% effective, because I don't read shitty, retarded news for retards. Ah, it was an instagram clip of some interview the punching bag gave to CNN. In which his claim was that they are effective at dealing with severe or clinically recognizable cases.
Let me just fact-check him a little... Here's some CDC data on deaths comparing vaccinated and unvaccinated persons. For that April-May 2021 realm, it was a comparison of 1M unvaccinated deaths to 50k fully vaccinated deaths. Whoops, looked at the chart wrong. So for total incidence, it's 50,000/1,050,000 = 5%. For deaths, it's about 1,000/12,000 = 8%.

Lo and behold, different variants of the virus emerge and the efficacy of the vaccine begins to wane, which is something that every health expert warned about early into the pandemic: different mutations work differently, require different vaccines to combat. It's why there's a new flu vaccination cocktail every year. More importantly, this means the dig about the 95% rate is both you not looking at the data and not understanding viruses.

Nobody has presented any model showing they're at any elevated risk though, so I was presuming that people weren't fearing for their lives based on a a projection model, but rather a notion based on wherever they're getting their news from

Probably because a lot of people will listen to the recommendations of their doctors who post in this thread, rather than insisting that they know better. Probably also because if I point to the NHS's study on this topic, you won't read it. Or this model, which has scary variables way too early in the text for my liking. Or these CDC items, like this one where you need to click some links towards the bottom to take a look directly at demographic information.

But you really don't need to read these to know that you may be at-risk. See, you can generally trust that years upon decades of life dedicated to the field has made your doctors into experts. You can trust that they know medicine better than you do, and so if they tell you that you're at-risk, they're probably not lying at you.

See, I could wade into the antivax hugboxes and throw out a bunch of these links, but why? No-one is going to listen or read anything, and I already had my fun with it. So what's the impetus to keep wandering into here to scream some platitudes at clouds who were just trying to laugh at fat, middle-aged people posting very public midlife crises?

 

[Aunt Carol]

With the last mask mandates going away and people's attention drifting off, has anyone suggested a plan going forward?

It's been two years, and we've learned that COVID is a slow killer, even slower when it doesn't kill. The over-capacity patients are still boarding in the ED, no matter who's in power.

People who would not normally be hospitalized are now requiring an inpatient bed for a couple of weeks; can we put COVID aside and figure out the logistics of this new inpatient beds:population ratio? Are any hospitals building a new ward?

Around here they're still white-knuckling it and acting surprised when there are consequences, be it patient mortality or staff retention.

 

[Fwiffo]

Okay, so again there is no educated reason for why you support mandates, just a notion that things would be worse if you don't
And report me if you think it helps, I see no problem with asking questions when posters powerlevel about their fear of death because their neighbor doesn't want to support pfizer's quarterly

“You say that my chances of dying are much higher if I play in the middle of the highway than if I don’t? Can you put an EXACT quantity on those chances? No?? Then you’re full of shit, you slave to the globo-homo-traffic-laws consortium!”

The autism is strong in you.