There is a Dark Age coming - ...and I feeeel fiiiine :)

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Do you think you're gonna make it?


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The end of the world brought to us by the accumlated sins of society:
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Found the thread https://boards.4chan.org/pol/thread/405761898
From the very first post instantly reminded why I didn't bother starting this kind of discussion there.
However, seeing others being this similarly collapse pilled on the other side of the planet sure makes it seem like there is something to collective unconsciousness.

I feel like the Green Revolution was essentially the equivalent of redlining the agricultural engine, despite the damage it eventually does to the environment. Permanent nutrient depletion, water table decline, ecosystem collapse, these are not things that can easily bounce back, especially within our lifetimes.
We truly have been living in a Faustian society since the enlightenment.
tbh, when I first mentioned Green Revolution I had it mixed up with the British Agricultural Revolution.

the-carpenter.jpg
People, what do you think are some of the more lucrative industries/trades to get into early in a slowly collapsing/declining world?

Except vice, that is too easy.
 
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the preacher man says it's the end of time...he says that america's rivers are going dry. the interest is up, the stock market's down. you guys have to be careful walking around here this late at night...this...this is the perfect place to get jumped.
Gotta send us some of that homemade wine, better than loosing your life for $43…
 
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The end of the world brought to us by the accumlated sins of society:
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I feel like the Green Revolution was essentially the equivalent of redlining the agricultural engine, despite the damage it eventually does to the environment. Permanent nutrient depletion, water table decline, ecosystem collapse, these are not things that can easily bounce back, especially within our lifetimes.

Not even a hot take, places like Singapore are noted as being 'IQ shredders', that concentrate the brightest minds via extractive immigration while simultaneously discouraging them from reproducing by squeezing every last bit of producitivity out of them.



Same goes for much of the West (no one can afford a house, marriages are dropping), with an additional spoonload of that special 'not-reproducing-to-save-the-planet' sauce heaped on by the powers to be.
Boomers literally grew up with leaded gasoline. Shut up and die.
 
Cobbler. If you think things are reverting to 1700s then those are the eras to look.
Even I don't think we will go that far back. At least not in our lifetime. My worst case guess is that the century might end in something like 1920s.
 
Even I don't think we will go that far back. At least not in our lifetime. My worst case guess is that the century might end in something like 1920s.
Being able to repair anything that relies on international transport as well as having the materials to do repairs will be what provides a steady trade come any break or regression situation. If even the bandits need you they are less likely to terrorize your household. That is especially true with the production of potentially dangerous products i.e. anything involving chemistry.

Perhaps a smart move is to be close to the largest community of engineering talent/construction/military reserves. In that case any emergent institution will be well equipped to project power outward and preserve the productive people within. You could also look at the existing hierarchy and determine gaps in maintenance or instabilities in social structure. Regardless of what happens locally there would be a large pool of people with broad training who are mentally and materially equipped to survive hardship.

As in any time, being capable of leading, inspiring, and organizing people will be the most sure way to secure a place for your kin. It will be a relevant skill as long as humans exist.
 
First off what kind of dark age are you looking at? the fake one from the middle ages where research and science still existed? or a real one like the bronze age collapse when almost all empires but the egyptians and assyrians disappeared and were completely forgotten to the point that centuries later nobody knew who had built those cities which dwarfed anything they were building at the time?

Try to imagine what would be like if you right now stumble on a city of the future in ruins but which is bigger and more complex yet older than any city that currently exists. That's how the classical greeks felt like.

Back to the debate, global warming is real and man-made or not (there were thousands of warming and cooling episodes in earth's history) its going to screw us sideways so the right answer is not just lower emissions but go full-geoengineering, too bad that the ecotards are religious-like in their opposition to this.

Energy is a problem but there are solutions, its just not as simple and straightforward as oil. Electricity will get cheaper while liquid fuels go up, this means that things like travel and logistics are gonna become expensive again. In short you're gonna have your AC and internet access but might never leave your town nor buy fruit that has been shipped from the other side of the world.

As for the economy I think that as material goods become more expensive then conspicuous consumption will move to the virtual space. NFTs and metaverses already showed normies are more than willing to pay for shit that doesn't actually exists. If an actual human-built matrix ever goes online expect a trillion dollar economy to form within it.

Lower birthrates are not the real problem, we just crossed the 8 billion mark when the planet can't sustain 2 billion without shitting the bed. Automation already shows even the knowledge industry isn't safe and in fact its way easier to automate than manual work. Space exploration is a nothingburger and things like asteroid mining will likely be done by drones and not people, so why you want more humans?

Frankly the real threat is cultural decay, that's how most civilizations have gone to shit, they were already decaying and then something happens that blows the house of cards down. Rome fell because most romans just didn't give a fuck anymore, and I see the same now with most people in Europe saying that they wouldn't die for their country, or books like 'Bowling alone' showing the systemic failures caused by the disintegration of communities. There is now a real palpable possibility of a nuclear war and/or global famine and yet nobody cares, they're far too busy with the quasi-religion of woke gender issues and representation.
 
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First off what kind of dark age are you looking at?
Something more like the Bronze Age one but slower like the Roman Empire collapse and not as far of a fall. I think thanks to us being in the information age we'll do much better at preserving useful knowladge than in previous falls.
global warming is real and man-made or not
I think so too. I just didn't bother claiming if it's real or not when talking about Great Reset, because I didn't want to get in a debate with anyone on that subject here.
The point I was making is that it's still used as a distraction from other problems reversing our economic growth. Focusing only on Global warming (real or not) just makes it easy for them to argue for more centralization in their hands. However, admitting most other factors could serve to argue more for decentralization.

Energy is a problem but there are solutions, its just not as simple and straightforward as oil. Electricity will get cheaper while liquid fuels go up, this means that things like travel and logistics are gonna become expensive again. In short you're gonna have your AC and internet access but might never leave your town nor buy fruit that has been shipped from the other side of the world.
I just don't see our current world system being sustained without the "straightforwardness of oil". I don't see any growth in moving to electricity and batteries. It's all just compromises and softening of an inescapable decline coming from oil restrictions (which might as well be justified because of Global warming).

I think you are severally underestimating how much of the "post cheap oil" growth was possible thanks to integrating offshore cheap Asian labor (also an abstract form of energy) into the US globalistic sector. Now even that gravy train is ending since that labor is becoming less cheap and huge parts are incrementally isolating and resigning out from the US lead global system (Russia, China and even India is aiming to become a world power.)

Africa might be the next frontier, but now that pie will have to be fought over by several competing global sectors and China already has secured a big slice. Additionally Africa won't be as easy to wrangle as the far more stable Asian countries in the 90's.

As for the economy I think that as material goods become more expensive then conspicuous consumption will move to the virtual space. NFTs and metaverses already showed normies are more than willing to pay for shit that doesn't actually exists. If an actual human-built matrix ever goes online expect a trillion dollar economy to form within it.
That also is something yet to be seen if such computing intensive bullshit economies are able to hold under the coming material pressures in the real world. The last crypto bubble already did a huge number on the chip supply chain. I don't imagine it fairing well in a processing power arms-race once blockchain actually goes mainstream.

Lower birthrates are not the real problem, we just crossed the 8 billion mark when the planet can't sustain 2 billion without shitting the bed
It is a big problem. As the birth rates go down we still have to take care of a very long demographic tail of unproductive retirees that we worked really hard to extend by making our life expectancy the longest in history.

Automation already shows even the knowledge industry isn't safe and in fact its way easier to automate than manual work.
That is yet to be seen if automation ends up adding enough productivity in areas that would allow automation to pay for itself. I don't think "Knowledge industry" is mainly that area. Most of the critical upkeep will have to be done through manual labor and we have yet to see if it complexity will just keep growing indefinitely or if it balances out somewhere.

However if automation does take over, does it not make Metaverse and all that stuff redundant? Why upkeep anything like that if there is no value to be extracted from its users? Internet now runs on advertising and subscriptions. If 90% people stop generating any substantive material value why would any automation-run-technocracy care about maintaining a huge virtual daycare center for useless eaters?

As I see it, ether way it goes, it may be better to learn to grow.

Space exploration is a nothingburger and things like asteroid mining will likely be done by drones and not people, so why you want more humans?
I think it's far more likely that even drone asteroid mining will go in the way of the Concorde because of it's economic return on investment.

Frankly the real threat is cultural decay,
It is far from the only real one. However it is a big one, because the apathy multiplies the severity of the many other problems if there is less and less will for people to fix them.
 
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Not even a hot take, places like Singapore are noted as being 'IQ shredders', that concentrate the brightest minds via extractive immigration while simultaneously discouraging them from reproducing by squeezing every last bit of producitivity out of them.



Same goes for much of the West (no one can afford a house, marriages are dropping), with an additional spoonload of that special 'not-reproducing-to-save-the-planet' sauce heaped on by the powers to be.
Cities have literally ALWAYS functioned as IQ shredders since the biggest city on the planet was a village with 700 people in it who wanted to hang out closer to the local chief and his genius shaman. Cities have always had lower birth rates, higher infant mortality, and before the past 60-70 years (if you live in the West), shorter life expectancy because they were cesspits of disease, water pollution, and later air pollution. But smart people have historically moved to cities because that's where the opportunities were. Why bother being the smartest farmer in your village when you can spend your life convincing the king and his ministers about the genius of your agricultural policy?

The reality is IQ is determined by more than just genes and there's very likely an "adaption" sort of effect. This is especially true in urban groups since cities require different skills to navigate successfully which is why merchant communities like Ashkenazi Jews (higher than non-merchant Jews like traditional Middle Eastern Jews/Mizrahim), some Chinese groups, and Gujaratis (highest IQ out of any Indian group) have such high IQs.
 
Watching a movie from the 1940s with a couple zoomers and trying to be the helpful old relative explaining things to make it make sense and realizing that while I understand all these references and cultural touchpoints that my great-great-grandparents understood, these kids don't even understand things from my parents' era. At all. The great discontinuity is upon us. The knowledge is being lost as we speak. I don't know what to do except "keep circulating the tapes."
 
One would have to be either ignorant, delusional, or in denial to see Current Year Clown World as a "utopia" like the SJWs seem to. I really do hope this world can stop being a dystopia, and that Current Year can go back to just being "the present" again. Or at least that space colonization is never done so that tyranny stays contained.
 
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@CheapMeds can't quote you but the point I was trying to make was not of a "soft landing", when I mentioned the internet and AC I mean stuff like a favela in Rio where you see rundown shacks made of exposed brick and tin roofs but they got a cheap AC unit made in brazil and inside they got smartphones and a smartTV with netflix, but they dont have a car and never leave the city let alone travel to another continent. Electricity will not get cheaper, it just wont get as expensive as oil because you can always get solar, but the sun is not going to start raining hydrocarbons on us.

Also in a situation like this local labor is gonna get cheaper, not as cheap as current chinese semislavery but cheap enough that most things are gonna get be made locally, and if thats not an option then its not gonna be available at all, or require shipping thats more expensive than what anyone but the richest guy in town can afford, just like the old days.

Quality of life will go down, dont even doubt that. Seniors? you can already see whats going to happen by taking a look at what canada is doing with euthanasia, its already being slowly normalized so normies will just accept it.
 
@cybertoaster
You know, I think my biggest misstep with this thread was abandoning the "IF" in "if society is heading for a Dark Age" when making my original posts to make them more concise, direct and punchy. Since I did that now I feel like I played myself into a position where I need to argue and get invested for the society to fall. That is an unnecessary shitty position to be in.

I really just made this thread to cope in a "doomer optimistic" way, by trying to draft up a narrative that lets go of hope of things getting as good as they used to, but is still a cool call to an adventure.
For the last few years, it really does seem that maybe we are like the Romans, Egyptians or any other people who thought they lived in an immortal society as they were in a decline or approaching a disaster.

when I mentioned the internet and AC I mean stuff like a favela in Rio where you see rundown shacks made of exposed brick and tin roofs but they got a cheap AC unit made in brazil and inside they got smartphones and a smartTV with netflix, but they dont have a car and never leave the city let alone travel to another continent. Electricity will not get cheaper, it just wont get as expensive as oil because you can always get solar, but the sun is not going to start raining hydrocarbons on us.

Also in a situation like this local labor is gonna get cheaper, not as cheap as current chinese semislavery but cheap enough that most things are gonna get be made locally, and if thats not an option then its not gonna be available at all, or require shipping thats more expensive than what anyone but the richest guy in town can afford, just like the old days.
As bullshit of a term that "Dark Age" is, is it not applicable to this scenario? Yeah, it's not how I imagined the bottom to look like.
However, the electronics in your real life example still depend on there being a consumer targeted global manufacturing system in the background. Is it that unlikely that there won't be such a thing? Ether because modern industries do collapse, or 90% of people are just useless eaters since most corporate needs are automated anyway? I guess useless eaters will need to be pacified, but maybe walling them off will be easier.

Quality of life will go down, dont even doubt that. Seniors? you can already see whats going to happen by taking a look at what canada is doing with euthanasia, its already being slowly normalized so normies will just accept it.
Maybe. I totally see them trying to do that. There are many terrible policies that are pushed by governments under the noses of unsuspecting normies. But getting people to willingly kill themselves in mass might be the most difficult psyop in history. So far I've only been hearing small exceptional examples of mentally and/or physically sick people taking that way out.
 
However, the electronics in your real life example still depend on there being a consumer targeted global manufacturing system in the background. Is it that unlikely that there won't be such a thing? Ether because modern industries do collapse, or 90% of people are just useless eaters since most corporate needs are automated anyway? I guess useless eaters will need to be pacified, but maybe walling them off will be easier.
Smartphones and content-on-demand (everything from youtube to gamepass) has had a huge pacifying effect on the population at large. I seen it both in the first world and in the third world, normies just lay down and watch shit rather than actually rebel.

The cost of making consumer electronics keeps going down, it will be far more efficient for the people up top to keep these things accessible than sustaining the already declining quality of life of the general population. Most normies could be reduced to favela-levels of squalors and there would be no revolution because there are viral videos and gatcha games for free.
 
Smartphones and content-on-demand (everything from youtube to gamepass) has had a huge pacifying effect on the population at large. I seen it both in the first world and in the third world, normies just lay down and watch shit rather than actually rebel.

The cost of making consumer electronics keeps going down, it will be far more efficient for the people up top to keep these things accessible than sustaining the already declining quality of life of the general population. Most normies could be reduced to favela-levels of squalors and there would be no revolution because there are viral videos and gatcha games for free.
Oh, you know what might be cheaper than cheap electronics? - Drugs.
For example, the reason why vodka is such a big part of former soviet state culture is because the vodka industry was very state subsidized for this exact reason by USSR.
 
Oh, you know what might be cheaper than cheap electronics? - Drugs.
Not precise enough, things get out of hand too easily, addicts become violent when they need a fix, etc. Electronics allow you to keep control, the ccp shows you can even "dose" it to keep people from getting too uppity or too lazy, to spot rebellious trends before anything happens. Can't do that with drugs, best you can do is use drugs to get rid of the "useless eaters" which if you look at the fentanyl crisis and the demographics of its victims it sort of seems like what its happening.
 
things get out of hand too easily, addicts become violent when they need a fix
Would they get violent from drug scarcity if the drug distribution is funded by a super productive automated technocracy?
Anyway this is why I'm still rooting for a low tech collapse, if it's between that or this.
 
Would they get violent from drug scarcity if the drug distribution is funded by a super productive automated technocracy?
Again the problem is the lack of control, smart shit its basically monitoring you 24/7.

I hope you aren't phoneposting from the clearnet.
 
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