- Joined
- Jun 21, 2022
Megathread SRS and GRS surgeons and associated horrors - the medical community of experimental surgeons, the secret community of home butchers
- Thread starter cuddle striker
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- Joined
- Dec 17, 2019
You notice the rot-ding is always disturbingly flattened at the base when they handle it? Like a water balloon that isn't filled all the way.
乙乙乙
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Mar 10, 2022
his dick looks pretty normal for someone who was on puberty blockers
- Joined
- Sep 15, 2016
They always handle it in such a weird way, lol! I’ve literally never seen a man hold their equipment the way these crazy chicks do.
Also: Note the super feminine, slender hands, lol!
Anyways, let’s see what else is new in genderbutcher land!
Oh… Feels insecure? Surely it can’t be that bad! Let’s have a look!
Oh? Not THAT bad! I’ve seen a lot…
ARGH WHAT DA FIUUCK?!? What happened there?!?
- Joined
- Dec 12, 2022
Whyyyyyyyyyyyyy do they think they will get anything resembling cis vulvas/vaginas? At least that one up above healed. They should be happy about that.
乙乙乙
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Mar 10, 2022
pretty sure I've said this a few times in this thread already, but this is it. this is the worst one I've ever seen. only thing its got going for it is that it healed without any apparent necrosis
- Joined
- Oct 3, 2022
Is it even possible for someone to be almost incapable of speaking, but completely lucid with a relatively broad vocabulary while writing, like this girl claims to be? I know nothing of autism but I find this highly suspect.
- Joined
- Feb 24, 2019
The minute she said "level 2 autism" I knew she was a larper.
And yes it is you can be non-verbal but still be quite communicative with some disorders. When I work with clients I make sure to remind peopel Non-Verbal does not mean unable to communicate.
- Joined
- Jan 20, 2022
I know a young autistic man who was nonverbal as a child and you'd hardly know he was autistic now because his parents insisted on therapy and education. He's a little awkward but intellectually bright and a good person. Talk to people who knew him as a child and you'll learn he'd come a long, long way.
If this girl can write a cogent essay on social media she can learn to fucking communicate without support. You can, in fact, set behavior expectations of autists. The world doesn't give a shit about your IEP.
- Joined
- Dec 20, 2022
Pretty impressive for her to make one of these "doctors" have a moment of conscience. I doubt she's got any disabilities that prevent her from talking. She's just scared of life and interacting with others like an adult. The butcher saw right through her pathetic nonsense.
- Joined
- Apr 6, 2019
This girl is clearly copycatting Amanda Baggs. Or whatever the fuck her name ended up being before she shuffled off.
On the one hand yes, kinda, on the other hand, no, definitely not in this case. A lot of high IQ autists are better at written communication than verbal. More in the sense of "if I write out how I feel first I can edit it into something others will understand" than "I can't speak properly." But the extent of "disability" she describes here is classic female hysteria plus some weird parental MBP type encouraging it, not an autistic presentation. I can only imagine the scammer/weirdo vibes they gave off irl in that exam room. If she has the physical ability to speak normally but is being encouraged not to, that's a whole barrel of crazy from both her and the parents. What you do for an autistic child with a speech delay is get them speech therapy to practice and get more comfortable communicating. It can start at a year of age and run through to adulthood and it is quite effective. You don't just speak for them. That's weird.
I would hazard a guess and say that most non-verbal people would find a way to communicate without mommy and daddy tagging along? Perhaps with one of those talking tablets, or even a phone app? If she can't even manage that then yeah, kick her larping ass to the curb.
- Joined
- Feb 24, 2019
Yea there are tons of communication devices avaiable now. You don't even have to buy an expensive dynavox anymore can just get an app on your phone. But the way she talked I really doubt she was autistic at all or if the story ever happened.
- Joined
- Jun 12, 2020
This is kinda hard to follow in that screenshot format so I've typed it out (honestly just using this to test out a keyboard)
my horrible experience with dr. javad sajan, who yelled at me, insulted me, and mistreated me because of my disability
so dr. javad sajan is being sued by the WA attorney general for posting fake reviews, intimidating/threatening/bribing people who posted negative ones, and making his employees participate in it too. which makes me feel better about sharing how he treated me (i felt weird saying it about a doctor with crazy high reviews)i originally posted this as a comment (I'm mostly copy-pasting it), but i want to share it with more people because it's unfair how he just got away with it, and maybe others experienced it too. i am hoping that as a community we can hold this guy accountable and make sure he doesn't try to sweep this nasty behavior under the rug.
(also i had to repost this cause something i wrote was getting it deleted so hopefully this edited version works, and sorry it's long...)
this was at a consultation and i ended up having surgery ages ago with dr. mangubat instead, whos entire team actually fcking knows what the word "compassion" means.
relevant: i have level 2 autism spectrum disorder (quite visibly at that, 98% of people immediately can tell) but that level means it's a NECESSITY for me to have assistance for some ordinary things. i have a lot of trouble with verbally communicating, especially in group conversations.
if i do speak at all, it's usually quite hard to understand what i say. my parents relay things for me the majority of the time, which i legitimately need. i mainly struggle with the processing aspect aspect of speaking, but physically struggle too (i never learned to properly speak, so talking can be physically tiring and even hurt). i'm still able to think and make decisions for myself (duh).
anyways,
nobody from his office mentioned the fact that i wasn't allowed to talk to him by myself for some reason, which already threw me off because i expect a private conversation with a doctor, and therefore that's what i had planned for (and changes of plans like this are another struggle). i don't believe that's an abnormal thing to expect, no?
well when we sat down in his office to discuss (after the exam, which i also agree with the person in the article who said the way he did it was demeaning), he bluntly asked "why are you here". my mom started started to talk to him (and was perfectly explaining my experience with dysphoria and all of that stuff), and he rudely cut her off mid-sentence because she was speaking for me. even after my parents explained my speech issues and that they can easily convey for me everything that i want, he still rudely and loudly demanded to hear it from me.
after a few seconds of me being stunned at the way he was speaking to me and my parents, i made an attempt to answer his stupid vague question. even though in my head i had a better response, all i was able to speak out loud was "for surgery" (i honestly don't know what else would i be there for...not like he doesn't have the info submitted from when we scheduled this sht !).
not that i could even finish speaking fully, because in the middle of it he snapped at me for the way that i spoke and demanded i say it again. i ended up just staring at him like a deer caught in headlights. thankfully, because he could yell again, my mom quickly repeated what i said much clearer for him
.i guess he really hated my answer though, because he scoffed making a nasty face at me, then ignored my presence for the rest of the consultation. he stared at me for a long time then shouted at my parents insulting me, making ignorant judgements about my intelligence, calling me immature, insecure, that i have a "lack of independence", that me being there is a mistake, and told my parents i can come back when i grow up. wow such deep insight gained from what felt like 15 minutes of yelling at me.
and of course, he said this to them in that fking tone people use when they think of me as a mentally challenged idiot who's unaware of my surroundings (yeah i know that tone all too well and i'm sure that someone else will know what i mean lol). obviously, that's not the case, now is it?
javad sajan treated me ABHORRENTLY, he was aggressive and domineering, he had such disgusting assumptions to make about someone who struggles with verbal speech. hey guess what Dr. Dickhead, the way i speak means NOTHING about my fking intelligence. my entire family and i HATE him, his berating and mistreatment of me caused massive setbacks in my level of functioning for the rest of the YEAR. he was an UNPROFESSIONAL ASSHOLE.
so i am glad he's being sued yay
cause my parents said his behavior would catch up to him one day, which they were right! and now i can share this without feeling like I'm literally the only person who has something bad to say about him, it was very discouraging seeing no criticism about him. i feel better seeing the person in the news had a similar experience with his horrible attitude that they were also upset from it just like me.tl;dr i'd rather you actually read it, but basically he was extremely aggressive and shouted at my parents for speaking for me, shouted demands at me to speak in a way that my disability prevented me from doing, then shouted insults about my character and my intelligence when i couldn't do what he demanded
there are so many better surgeons out there who are really nice people, that actually want to improve the lives of trans people and deserve your money. not javad sajan who is greedy, cheating, fraudulent, hateful, ableist loser. he doesn't deserve anyone's money, he doesn't deserve his career, he doesn't deserve anything that he CHEATED to get. i have never been treated so DISGUSTING in my entire life, fck this guy.
anyways this is the only website i have an account on (challenge for he farms?), but i hope a lot of people eventually see this and learn how garbage of a person javad sajan is, that he likes to threaten people into criticising him, and he likes to shout insults at people for having a disability.
It's extremely obvious that this person is very immature and intellectually stuck in their mid-teens. There's a question of "did this happen?" and I think something like this probably happened but she's projecting it onto the trans boogeyman of the moment for asspats.
The parents should be ashamed as their child is in a state of arrested development because they do everything for her, even talking, meanwhile the tard LARPer just sits there and imagining what crazy bullshit she'll come up with to continue the charade. Now it's gone from playing at being a mute to actual self mutilation.
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- Joined
- Jun 17, 2016
I’ve read this entire thread and I know I’m not the first to mention this, but Tif’s fascination/obsession with STP is insane to me and I can’t figure it out.
As a female, there has never been one instance where I wanted to pee standing up. The only time I ever thought about it was when potty-training a son, cleaning up messes, and finally throwing a couple cheerios in there as a target. I also had a job where I worked on my feet, and going to the bathroom and getting to sit down for a couple minutes in a private stall was a nice respite, and I felt sorry for male coworkers who had to use the urinals. I don’t camp so squatting isn’t part of my life but of course, I could. Those few thoughts were my only consciousness of it until this thread.
I can’t even imagine the deviation behind this obsession. I really think a lot of these sick little girls get this surgery solely for the opportunity to stand while urinating, and it baffles me. Is it sexual? Some power thing? An opportunity to show off their warped genitals? Is that what they think men are?
If you have a clue, let me know.
That girl with the meta who posted a video a couple pages back about how she managed to pull a snail out of her undies and push hidden buttons to pee and then “mîlk” drops while it looked nothing like a penis (or phallus) just had me wondering what part of the brain is so damaged that she thinks that’s ok to show, and maybe find desirable?
As an aside, I hope that guy in Texas does find a solution and save his kid. Jazz should be s warning, not sn inspiration.
As a female, there has never been one instance where I wanted to pee standing up. The only time I ever thought about it was when potty-training a son, cleaning up messes, and finally throwing a couple cheerios in there as a target. I also had a job where I worked on my feet, and going to the bathroom and getting to sit down for a couple minutes in a private stall was a nice respite, and I felt sorry for male coworkers who had to use the urinals. I don’t camp so squatting isn’t part of my life but of course, I could. Those few thoughts were my only consciousness of it until this thread.
I can’t even imagine the deviation behind this obsession. I really think a lot of these sick little girls get this surgery solely for the opportunity to stand while urinating, and it baffles me. Is it sexual? Some power thing? An opportunity to show off their warped genitals? Is that what they think men are?
If you have a clue, let me know.
That girl with the meta who posted a video a couple pages back about how she managed to pull a snail out of her undies and push hidden buttons to pee and then “mîlk” drops while it looked nothing like a penis (or phallus) just had me wondering what part of the brain is so damaged that she thinks that’s ok to show, and maybe find desirable?
As an aside, I hope that guy in Texas does find a solution and save his kid. Jazz should be s warning, not sn inspiration.
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2022
Fascinating article about the origins of the Dutch Protocol: The Dutch Protocol for Juvenile Transsexuals: Origins and Evidence (archive)
Here are some excerpts that I feel fit in this thread under "associated horrors":
Related to this deep dive on the Dutch protocol, recently a couple Dutch detransitioners have shared their stories.
- Benjamin Boyce interviewed A former MTF who had gone on hormone treatment as a minor after little assessment. He also had FFS as a young adult and the surgeon kept trying to convince him to get a rhinoplasty to reduce the size of his nose, even though he didn't mind his nose. He agreed to it when she convinced him that the rhinoplasty needed to be done to achieve his other desired surgeries, but he said he only wanted it reduced as little as possible. Instead she reduced his nose so much it's now smaller than average. He also had a surgeon promise him the procedure to (shave or remove?) the adam's apple could not possibly affect his vocal chords, but they did significantly impact his voice to make it permanently lower. eventually he realized that he was really just a gay guy, and he went back to the doctors to tell them they fucked up and they just argued with him and he describes it as like talking to a wall.
- Twitter thread from a former FTM who started identifying as trans after a traumatic surgery and became suicidal on puberty blockers, and then was scared to detrans even though she hated it because she thought she'd become suicidal again.
EDIT: Gender: A Wider Lens podcast interviewed 2 of the most prominent Dutch researchers, Steensma and DeVries. Both are also part of WPATH and worked on developing their guidelines.
Here are some excerpts that I feel fit in this thread under "associated horrors":
the pioneering generation who created transsexualism, Gooren saw gender dysphoria as an intersex condition: “there is a contradiction between the genetic, gonadal and genital sex on the one hand, and the brain sex on the other” and therefore “we must provide them with reassignment treatment which meets their needs” (Gooren, 1993, p. 23. This hypothesis was apparently vindicated when he coauthored an article in Nature showing that the volume of the central subdivision of the bed nucleus of the stria terminalis in six male-to-female transsexuals was closer to the volume found in females than in males (Zhou et al., 1995). “Unfortunately,” as he recently acknowledged, “the research has never been replicated” (Gooren, 2021, p. 50; see also Kreukels & Burke, 2020).
Related to this deep dive on the Dutch protocol, recently a couple Dutch detransitioners have shared their stories.
- Benjamin Boyce interviewed A former MTF who had gone on hormone treatment as a minor after little assessment. He also had FFS as a young adult and the surgeon kept trying to convince him to get a rhinoplasty to reduce the size of his nose, even though he didn't mind his nose. He agreed to it when she convinced him that the rhinoplasty needed to be done to achieve his other desired surgeries, but he said he only wanted it reduced as little as possible. Instead she reduced his nose so much it's now smaller than average. He also had a surgeon promise him the procedure to (shave or remove?) the adam's apple could not possibly affect his vocal chords, but they did significantly impact his voice to make it permanently lower. eventually he realized that he was really just a gay guy, and he went back to the doctors to tell them they fucked up and they just argued with him and he describes it as like talking to a wall.
- Twitter thread from a former FTM who started identifying as trans after a traumatic surgery and became suicidal on puberty blockers, and then was scared to detrans even though she hated it because she thought she'd become suicidal again.
EDIT: Gender: A Wider Lens podcast interviewed 2 of the most prominent Dutch researchers, Steensma and DeVries. Both are also part of WPATH and worked on developing their guidelines.
Bio: Steensma
Thomas D. Steensma, Ph.D., is a health psychologist, principal investigator and part of the outpatient management team at the Center of Expertise on Gender Dysphoria at Amsterdam UMC, The Netherlands.
Trained as a child and adolescent psychologist, his clinical work is focused on the counseling and treatment of people of all ages with gender incongruence and Differences in Sex Development (DSD).
As principal investigator, his research lines are focused on psychosexual development, gender identity development and treatment evaluation of youth with gender incongruence. Over the years, he has published over 50 peer reviewed articles in international journals and several book chapters in close collaboration with prominent scientists in the field of gender and sexology. He has co-supervised several Ph.D. and master students.
His recent scientific work is focused on understanding the developments in our field focusing on the change in observed sex ratios and the influence of media attention on gender referrals and understanding the processes and factors involved in non-binary gender identity formation.
He is currently part of the working group for the text revision of the DSM-5 chapter on Gender Dysphoria. In the development of the 8th version of the Standards of Care of the World Professional Association of Transgender Health (WPATH), he is part of two working groups: Assessment and Therapeutic Approaches of Non-Binary People and Assessment, Support and Therapeutic Approaches of Children.
Bio: de Vries
Annelou de Vries is a child and adolescent psychiatrist and full staff member in the dept of child and adolescent psychiatry working at the Amsterdam UMC.
Annelou de Vries is leading the Child Psychiatry Department of the Center of Expertise on Gender Dysphoria of the Amsterdam UMC. She is president elect of the European Professional Association of Transgender Health (EPATH) . She is co-chair of the adolescent chapter of the Standards of Care revision of the World Professional Association of Transgender Health (WPATH).
At present, her lines of research focus on 1) the co-occurrence of autism and gender dysphoria, 2) capacity for informed consent of transgender adolescents, 3) long term follow up of transgender adolescence into middle adulthood, 4) sexual development of transgender adolescents, 5) shared decision making in transgender care, and 6) pathways in gender identity exploration and affirmation.
The reason this interview is so important is bc the concept of puberty blockers originated with these two researchers (along w/ cohen kettenis.) We talk about patient zero and the 22 year follow up w/ this person. We get into the nitty gritty details about the 2 studies on which all puberty blocker treatment is based: we ask why they selected certain methods, talked about eligibility criteria, and the 15 participants who didn’t make it into the final study. We even touch on Jazz Jennings, social media, ROGD and detransition. This conversation felt, to us at least, like we barely scratched the surface: we were frankly left with more questions than answers, which we are so eager to talk about in our post series analysis. You’ll probably notice the vast differences between the perspectives of these researchers and of myself and Stella, but nonetheless it was a productive and fascinating conversation.
Links:
Young adult psychological outcome after puberty suppression and gender reassignment
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25201798/
Puberty suppression in adolescents with gender identity disorder: a prospective follow-up study
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20646177/
Extended Notes
Thomas D. Steensma, Ph.D., is a health psychologist, principal investigator and part of the outpatient management team at the Center of Expertise on Gender Dysphoria at Amsterdam UMC, The Netherlands.
Trained as a child and adolescent psychologist, his clinical work is focused on the counseling and treatment of people of all ages with gender incongruence and Differences in Sex Development (DSD).
As principal investigator, his research lines are focused on psychosexual development, gender identity development and treatment evaluation of youth with gender incongruence. Over the years, he has published over 50 peer reviewed articles in international journals and several book chapters in close collaboration with prominent scientists in the field of gender and sexology. He has co-supervised several Ph.D. and master students.
His recent scientific work is focused on understanding the developments in our field focusing on the change in observed sex ratios and the influence of media attention on gender referrals and understanding the processes and factors involved in non-binary gender identity formation.
He is currently part of the working group for the text revision of the DSM-5 chapter on Gender Dysphoria. In the development of the 8th version of the Standards of Care of the World Professional Association of Transgender Health (WPATH), he is part of two working groups: Assessment and Therapeutic Approaches of Non-Binary People and Assessment, Support and Therapeutic Approaches of Children.
Bio: de Vries
Annelou de Vries is a child and adolescent psychiatrist and full staff member in the dept of child and adolescent psychiatry working at the Amsterdam UMC.
Annelou de Vries is leading the Child Psychiatry Department of the Center of Expertise on Gender Dysphoria of the Amsterdam UMC. She is president elect of the European Professional Association of Transgender Health (EPATH) . She is co-chair of the adolescent chapter of the Standards of Care revision of the World Professional Association of Transgender Health (WPATH).
At present, her lines of research focus on 1) the co-occurrence of autism and gender dysphoria, 2) capacity for informed consent of transgender adolescents, 3) long term follow up of transgender adolescence into middle adulthood, 4) sexual development of transgender adolescents, 5) shared decision making in transgender care, and 6) pathways in gender identity exploration and affirmation.
The reason this interview is so important is bc the concept of puberty blockers originated with these two researchers (along w/ cohen kettenis.) We talk about patient zero and the 22 year follow up w/ this person. We get into the nitty gritty details about the 2 studies on which all puberty blocker treatment is based: we ask why they selected certain methods, talked about eligibility criteria, and the 15 participants who didn’t make it into the final study. We even touch on Jazz Jennings, social media, ROGD and detransition. This conversation felt, to us at least, like we barely scratched the surface: we were frankly left with more questions than answers, which we are so eager to talk about in our post series analysis. You’ll probably notice the vast differences between the perspectives of these researchers and of myself and Stella, but nonetheless it was a productive and fascinating conversation.
Links:
Young adult psychological outcome after puberty suppression and gender reassignment
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25201798/
Puberty suppression in adolescents with gender identity disorder: a prospective follow-up study
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20646177/
Extended Notes
- When did Thomas and Annelou first hear about the concept of puberty blockers?
- Thomas and Annelou talk about the very first case of puberty suppression.
- Were there any counseling measures attempted to relieve the distress of this first case?
- Stella asks about the follow-up from the study by Peggy Cohen Kettenis in 2011 where a transitioner could not sustain a long-term relationship and was still ashamed of their genitals.
- Thomas talks about the motivation behind follow-ups and the aim of each study.
- Stella asks about the gender dysphoria scale used in their studies in 2011. Why were the scales changed after treatment?
- Thomas talks about the Utrecht Gender Dysphoria Spectrum Scale by JK McGuire and how they are using this now.
- Annelou explains their 2014 clinical study and the different follow-ups they made on these cases.
- Stella mentions that the majority of the seventy children in their study developed a level of obesity while on treatment. Annelou and Thomas describe their selection process.
- There were fifteen people that were not followed up upon in the second study. Annelou talks about one of the patients who died through the cross-sex surgery.
- Did the puberty blockers create a problem to transition? Did this occur with the children in their studies? Annelou and Thomas talk about the different surgical techniques for transitioning.
- Where in the early stages did the work of chronologists and surgeons come into play? What was the influence of the medical community on how they conceptualize gender distresses and how to treat them?
- Are there cases that the diagnosis for the child coming in was not gender dysphoria but other psychological issues? Annelou shares their process of assessment through multidisciplinary meetings.
- Thomas shares that it’s not their job to decide whether the patient has gender incongruence but rather understand and find out how that feeling developed.
- Stella questions the significant improvements in these studies to be associated with maturing of the child. Thomas explains their population.
- The scale is not ideal but after treatment, the patient would say their gender dysphoria has improved a lot. That’s the reason they go through the treatment.
- Annelou shares the different distresses that the LGBTQ community suffers from that are not only limited to gender. Therefore, mental health isn’t the best outcome measure.
- Can you become gender dysphoric as a teenager because of the obsession on gender? Stella asks in relation to today’s generation.
- Part of adolescence is searching for one’s identity and it’s the role of parents to help these adolescents form for the rest of their lives.
- Annelou shares her thoughts about Lisa Littman’s study on ROGD.
- There is so much more going on than the reasons others think that things are changing. Thomas shares it’s important to explore things first and not go fast.
- He also shares the societal influences in the changes they observe today vs. in the past.
- The Littman study is framed as a warning but the decisions in terms of the medical steps are still as difficult as they were 20 years ago.
- It depends on which theory you work but both Thomas and Annelou share that the phenomenon of gender diversity has not changed significantly over time.
- Thomas and Annelou share their thoughts on de-transitioners.
- We used to think that gender incongruence was something permanent, but we now have what we call fluidity. It’s important to be really careful going through these processes.
- The safe and slow approach on gender dysphoria in the U.S. vs. Amsterdam. Stella asks them both what is the difference.
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- Joined
- May 18, 2020
Here’s to another year of haphazardly clicking spoilers
- Joined
- Feb 12, 2019
I dunno, there’s been many times having a little hose you can position to pee sounded much better than having to squat in a bush.
- Joined
- Oct 2, 2022
every woman who has been driving down the freeway with no bathrooms nearby has probably thought of it at least once.