Opinion What incels get wrong about women

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What incels get wrong about women​

The Pope is Catholic, bears shit in the woods, and new research shows that “men who identify as incels overestimate how much women want physical attractiveness and financial success” in a partner while underestimating the importance of traits such as kindness, humour and loyalty.

Forgive my sarkiness – but I don’t think we needed a study to prove that incels’ barometer for what women want is somewhat wonky. Any woman who has tuned in for any length of time to the incel philosophy (not to mention any straight woman trying to date) would have been able to tell you as much.

Short for “involuntary celibate”, the term incel has myriad connotations, ranging from risible stereotypes to the downright terrifying (incel ideologies have been cited in manifestos for mass killings, although the report suggests the ideology isn’t the main motivation).

Whatever end of the spectrum they fall on, incel beliefs boil down to a simple equation: women owe them sex, but they aren’t delivering. Never does it seem to occur to these men that it’s their attitude towards women that’s the problem – and reason no one wants to date them – rather than their looks or their money.

Not only do women remain with men during difficult financial periods, but also research shows that more and more US women are the breadwinners in their relationships. It’s also worth mentioning that, quite opposite from seeking the most handsome men, one study suggests women are happier with less attractive husbands.

Anecdotally, when it comes to long-term partnership, a sense of humour and thoughtfulness go much further than looks – my boyfriend is gorgeous, obviously, but I love him much more when he cooks a surprise dinner or makes me laugh than when he’s done 20 extra push-ups.

Despite this, incel communities instead discuss frightening ideas like state-mandated girlfriends as serious solutions to their predicament, believing that it would save them from the whole ordeal of dating (which would force them to treat women as human beings!). Why won’t anyone date me?! cry these guys, as they put their finishing touches to a manifesto for keeping women in cages. Truly, a mystery for the ages.

For a worldview that rails against the injustices faced by single, straight men, incel-dom sure does a good job of keeping them that way. The idea that women are only interested in the most preternaturally chiselled men and their bulging bank accounts must fill any guy who falls below the impossible (imaginary) standard with self-pity.

Women (or “foids”, short for “female humanoids” on incel forums), meanwhile, are seen as vapid idiots at best, and sex-slot-machines – into which you just have to pour the right amount of money and/or abs in order to cash out – at worst.

It’s hard not to feel frustrated by this state of affairs, partly because it seems so easy to straighten out; women have been writing books and articlescountering these toxic arguments, as well as offering more realistic accounts of what we’re actually looking for in male partners.

Sure, nice jawlines and money don’t hurt – but the idea that that’s what’s stopping an incel from getting a daterather than the frustration and resentment radiating from his every pore seems pretty convenient on the one hand, and totally self-defeating on the other.

With such a brutal understanding of interpersonal relationships, it’s perhaps no surprise that the study from the University of Swansea reveals incel mental health to be in staggeringly poor shape.

Hatred often comes from unhappiness, and I’d be depressed too if I felt as if the world was configured in such a way as to make my personal fulfilment impossible.

But the good news is that however dark the incel worldview might seem, it is a fantasy. Hopefully this new study, conducted by Dr Andrew Thomas and masters student William Costello will encourage incels to see women as human beings.

Say it with me: women don’t care about your cheekbones, we want to be seen as full human beings. That might not sound like much to ask, but it should be revelatory for the guys who are too busy griping about their facial structure to see the altogether simpler – and far more meaningful – truth. If it takes a study by a man to get that ball rolling, then so be it.
 
Except this goes beyond unfuckable neckbeards being entitled creeps. People are lonelier than ever. Even Chads and Stacies. Fewer and fewer people have close friends, have sex, enter relationships, or get married. And it's taking its toll.

I don't know what the solution to it is, but it's not the worn-out boomerism of "just pull yourself up by the bootstraps".
I honestly think therapy is partly responsible for this. The *number* of therapists I know who've encouraged my friends to break up with their partners over IMO trivial shit, to vilify their parents over past mistakes, and to adopt the attitude that it's somehow wrong to "burden" your friends with your problems and is healthier to pay some stranger to emotionally masturbate you instead is truly stunning.
 
The peak cosmic comedy of an article stating relatively neutrally that incels misjudge a lot of women being misjudged by incels in this very thread is rich.

News flash btw lads, human attraction (from both men and women) is not as clear cut as any of you are making it out to be and is far more subjective than anyone gives it credit for.
 
Personally I feel like women too often are attracted to an aesthetic rather than a person. Like they want to insert themselves into a lifestyle that they see a guy has, rather than necessarily be with that guy. Plenty guys seem to have picked up on this and are comfortable with it. So they try telling other guys pretty frankly to just provide this lifestyle for a woman and be happy with that rather than hope for a woman to necessarily care about them.
Jung actually talks about this somewhat with how he contrasts the Anima and the animus. The Anima in men is an all encompassing and evolving archetype and the animus is much more of a scattered set of parallel images. Women are sort of faceblind about men and are often encouraged to be that way which means that it can be genuinely rare for a woman to care for a man and they can be clueless about getting a man to care for them while men are often very aware of what women desire. It's a huge snag that people don't get through and the people giving advice are often the worst at it.
 
How many times do we have to go over this? Short of Sharia, or something like it, this ain't getting fixed. Wahmens were given a choice, and this is what they chose. These are the consequences. Just don't expect them - ever - to accept responsibility. That would be muh soggy knees. Women are perfect, didn't you know? By definition, they dindu nuffin - how could they? Poor, innocent victims of The Man. Hence articles like this, blaming incels (but really men in general). For everything.

Anyway, what this article also feels like, apart from the typical misdirection to avoid scrutinizing wahmens behaviour (as opposed to the lies they tell), is an attempt to throw a hopium bone to beta-orbiter-simp types who might just be starting to get a clue and therefore deciding to quit playing a rigged game, and therefore risking ruining post-wall roasties' retirement plans. Got to keep the chumps blue-pilled (and blue-balled), and tightly coralled.

Women, then, are not only the niggers of gender, they're also the kikes, farming the cattle-goy. They'll happily be whores, but they hate getting found out - and named as what they are.
 
It’s also worth mentioning that, quite opposite from seeking the most handsome men, one study suggests women are happier with less attractive husbands.

Anecdotally, when it comes to long-term partnership, a sense of humour and thoughtfulness go much further than looks – my boyfriend is gorgeous, obviously,
So I guess you won't settle with a less attractive companion.
Sure, nice jawlines and money don’t hurt

Say it with me: women don’t care about your cheekbones
Are contradictions a normal trait for women like this author?
 
This is something a woman who chose the former things the first time around will tend to look for when she's divorced and has gained some humility and wisdom. I have met these women and they are great. They make excellent wives. I have known several instances of second marriages where both parties had been through the wringer the first time around, had learnt from it, and made good choices in their new spouse.

This is an interesting premise.

The first thing that comes to mind though is that it hinges on a still-high SMV divorced female that simply "chose wrong" as opposed to one that shared a proportionate amount of the personal failings leading to the dissolution of their first marriage.
 
Are contradictions a normal trait for women?
Fixed and yes.

Also, missed this gem on initial scan-thru,
Anecdotally, when it comes to long-term partnership, a sense of humour and thoughtfulness go much further than looks
Keywords: long-term partnership. Flip that around, find the corollary, and what do we get: short-term, looks go much further than humour and thoughtfulness.

That tidbit of selective [half-]truth-telling gives the game away - and proves the incels correct. Again.

Contradicting the entire premise of the article. [see: above, lol].
 
Incels don't exist. I can bet most "incels" are voluntarily celibate. I haven't sought sex since I was like 35, doesn't make me an incel, I just stopped revolving my life around it and if I want sex I can just go get a hooker.
Yes and no. There's definitely a portion of the population that just isn't engaging in dating. There's also a large portion of the population not able to date because nobody will date them. It's not because they're fat/lazy/don't shower, its just normal guys. A lot of men have also resorted to "grinding" earlier and finding a wife later, which I think is dumb for a lot of reasons, but there's something to be said about the culture shift. Nothing will bite you on the ass harder than waiting years to find a wife and picking the wrong one because you have no resistance to the red flags. Red pill will only do so much if you don't know what to look for when you finally decide to actually look. Bad women are deceitful and tricky.

I honestly think therapy is partly responsible for this. The *number* of therapists I know who've encouraged my friends to break up with their partners over IMO trivial shit, to vilify their parents over past mistakes, and to adopt the attitude that it's somehow wrong to "burden" your friends with your problems and is healthier to pay some stranger to emotionally masturbate you instead is truly stunning.
I don't think I blame therapists as much as I blame our modern GRIND culture. People have become fucking obsessed with micromanaging every part of their lives to an absurd degree. Nothing has been more destructive than the phrase "You are the average of the 5 people you spend the most time with". People have taken that phrase and have flat out abused the idea and concept. Our culture in general has thrust people into a dark and lonely place. It's not just therapists. There's millions of TikTok videos at this point about cutting TOXIC PEOPLE out of your life.

We're so obsessed with micromanaging our lives that we started to micromanage the people around us. I'm sorry, but if you're willing to throw away lifelong friends because they go through a rough patch and don't see eye to eye anymore, well it happens but you're a fucking nigger for not trying to see past it. You shouldn't isolate yourself from your family barring extreme circumstances. You'll quickly find out the "Five people" you want to surround yourself with, don't fucking exist. You won't find friends without problems, or issues, or even drama. To an extent, that's just life and overcoming both of your problems as FRIENDS is what makes life better.

This is why I hate modern GRIND culture so fucking much. It's flat out forcing you into a depressive state and the ultimate psychological fallout from this is going to be horrendous. Get your therapy licenses Bois, you'll be fat cats at this rate.
 
This is why I hate modern GRIND culture so fucking much. It's flat out forcing you into a depressive state and the ultimate psychological fallout from this is going to be horrendous. Get your therapy licenses Bois, you'll be fat cats at this rate.
If you're the first therapist that will deal with people who are lonely and are not pushing them towards "improving relationships", you'll probably retire early from the amount of people who will want your services.

I think therapists just haven't caught up with the times. People ARE lonely and a lot of that is for reasons that are out of their control, and they're tired of bad internet advice and hearing about "hope".

Most adults, for instance, have a hard time making friends, and a lot of that is because most people aren't open to making new friends. That's not the fault of the adults who want friends but can't find them. So what do you do about that? More hobbies? More social events? Burning yourself out trying to be social?

COVID turned an already increasingly antisocial society into one that's openly hostile to each other, because whether or not people are still scared of COVID, we're all left with the lingering doubts about our fellow man and how we treat each other in a crisis.

Point is, people are going to have to learn how to deal with unsolvable loneliness because it's not going away.
 
Most adults, for instance, have a hard time making friends, and a lot of that is because most people aren't open to making new friends. That's not the fault of the adults who want friends but can't find them. So what do you do about that? More hobbies? More social events? Burning yourself out trying to be social?
I mean I don't know, I tell people I know just go to bars and talk to anyone. Everyone and anyone. Social skills are a muscle and they need to be worked out just like your other muscles do.
 
I mean I don't know, I tell people I know just go to bars and talk to anyone. Everyone and anyone. Social skills are a muscle and they need to be worked out just like your other muscles do.
Maybe, but my point about COVID was that a lot of people are now walking around paranoid over who you're going to encounter.

COVID proved we'd rather listen to the news (people who don't know us or care about us) than actually talk to our neighbors.

We're all unwell and relating to people in meaningful ways is harder than ever.
 
Here's my question though. If this is all natural and just women's natural preferences then how come the loneliness, alienation, and record numbers of people nor marrying or reproducing is unprecedented?

Why didn't this ever happen before?
Because people, especially women, didn't have any choice but to stay and home and play babymaker to their man. They had to suck it up and stay with him even if he got drunk every other day and beat the living shit out of her when he got home because he hated how his own life turned out.
TMI that was the life of my maternal grandmother but fortunately for her and her kids the fucker died long before I was born, and women nowadays don't have to suffer through a miserable marriage like they did up until a few decades ago.

That's just one case out of millions though, but it answers a lot of questions as to the mystery of why men are so lonely. Women don't have to put up with nasty shit anymore like they used to and if she's unhappy, she has a huge social security net to fall back. Divorce is no longer stigmatized like it used to be either so that makes it all the easier to leave a partner or better yet, not have a relationship at all. Thousands of women still get murdered by their partners on a yearly basis so being single is the safer option in a lot of women's eyes. Sorry lonely guys, but you can't exactly blame women for not being excited at the possibility of becoming some freak's punching bag or free bangmaid.

I'm just sperging at this point and understand there's a billion other factors at play here, and that men aren't all incels or degenerate pigs (plenty of women fit that role these days) but a shitty economy combined with a poor dating pool, a comfortable social net where the majority of people can live a relatively okay life without shacking up and you're going to find a lot of people who can at best hope for a shallow fwb. Sucks but that's how life is these days.

Now give me those puzzle pieces!
 
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Here's my question though. If this is all natural and just women's natural preferences then how come the loneliness, alienation, and record numbers of people nor marrying or reproducing is unprecedented?

Why didn't this ever happen before?
The one unique thing today is that women can choose from men all over the world, not just local men. This is weeding out a significant percentage of men.
Incels don't exist. I can bet most "incels" are voluntarily celibate. I haven't sought sex since I was like 35, doesn't make me an incel, I just stopped revolving my life around it and if I want sex I can just go get a hooker.
Agreed. I'd say at least 90% of these incels in their communities could get laid if they really wanted. And, of course, escorts are also an option.
 
That's just one case out of millions though, but it answers a lot of questions as to the mystery of why men are so lonely. Women don't have to put up with nasty shit anymore like they used to and if she's unhappy, she has a huge social security net to fall back. Divorce is no longer stigmatized like it used to be either so that makes it all the easier to leave a partner or better yet, not have a relationship at all.
Yes, feminism did win and the result is what's happening. Maybe that is fine for some, but at what cost? I wish there was some middle ground between the stupid sexes between 'We all HATE YOU' and 'WE ALL NEED YOU'. Everyone thinks it has to be Victorian era oppression or what we have now. The facts are women outpace men in college, and are usually the last to get fired or laid off. The battle of the sexes thing is as old as time, but it doesn't have to be like this forever, I hope. Just how the western world generally goes, pendulum alll the way to one side, to the other, and back.
 
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