Hazbin Hotel / Helluva Boss Thread - Now a Griefing Thread

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Do you believe that this series will turn to shit?


  • Total voters
    2,922
I wanted Gomez Lucifer and Morticia Lilith. Relationships. Between characters.
I wanted Charlie to act like she's nobility, raised by the fuckmothering devil, and the mother of fuck, Lilith. Even if she's a cinnamon roll most of the time, the devil's offspring should be spicier than a ghost pepper when it's called for. We got cucked out of a good king and queen of hell here, and Charlie's heat level in the pilot maxed out at a jalapeno at best.

Some kind of female sexuality at all among all the gay male melodrama would have been nice but lol, female characters even if a woman writes them, amirite? Interesting sexuality at all would have been great, but, yanno, fujo rape uwu. Seems like the only woman getting wet in this show is Nifty when she's stabbing or cleaning.
I hear what you’re saying but you can’t expect that kind of character writing from someone like Vivziepop.

If there’s one I learned from observing people like Vivziepop, it’s that they suck at writing fun or interesting characters.

I mean, Vivziepop is a fat fujo nerd who like faggots and quirky shit. You can’t expect much from people like her.
 
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Literally "his dark materials", but with show tunes and curse words. Still utterly dissapointed. Even if the "other mother" images of the angels are apparently just masks they wear by killing things. The strong implication is that the masks are actually their real faces.

What's more obnoxious is that there is STILL no moral delineation between "heaven" and "hell". Apparently both are perfectly capable of exercising moral judgements, and both are perfectly capable of doing immoral actions for the sake of personal or societal expediency.

Again what is the POINT. What is the CONFLICT. At best, all I can see is that the entire point is for Charlie to convince Heaven they are just as bad as Hell, and to convince Hell they are just as good as heaven. Which is...stupid. It goes right back to fedora tipping "nothing really matters maaaaaan". "Everyone is equally good and bad maaaaan"

I swear, if I can be given the power to kill one man in the past in the cradle, I would go for Phillip Pullman. Him and that equally smooth brained William Sumner are responsible for so much bullshit. If nothing matters, then nothing matters! And I know Vivzie actually doesn't believe this at a fundamental level, since she gives the accusatory angel an entire solo sequence during the court of heaven before promptly shitting on her. Its like she wants to believe there is a fundamental morality, and then goes "nahh, patriarchy, violence, oppression, yada yada, fuck you bitch, ass hole fuck, did I say fuck?"

I was disappointed in this show. Slowly, I came to hate it.
 
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Seeing as everyone else has had their own gay, autistic ideas about fixing the story, I'm going to take my own gay, autistic shot at trying to fix the worldbuilding/some character elements. Since I'm much worse at organizing my thoughts than others, here's a bunch of random bullet points. Bear in mind, the breadth of my experience with the show is the pilot and all of the stuff I've learned from lurking this thread.
  • Pentagram City's a shit name. Call it Pandemonium instead (because Paradise Lost is cool).
  • Infernal society. It's a little unclear what exactly the delineation between sinner demons and proper demon demons is. Maybe have a class division where the demons treat the sinners like lower class peons. Successful sinners like Alastor are considered Nouveau Riche by the snooty demonic upper crust. This leads somewhat into my next point:
  • The exterminations make no goddamn sense. Hell is supposed to be eternal torment, so permanently deleting souls from a place of permanent residence is a goofy idea. Plus it makes even less sense for angels to be busying themselves with punishing sinners when that's the demons' job. Instead have some kind of Wild Hunt/Purge/Battle Royale/Saturnalia once a year where demons go out to kill sinners indiscriminately. Sinners only die temporarily, so this typically ends with lesser sinners losing all of their accumulated territory/wealth and resets the board for next year like some kind of shitty pvp game.
  • Angels should have very little presence in the story, and should they appear they should be eldritch abomination-levels of invincible or at least hard to "kill". As for why they look like Tim Burton wet dreams to the denizens of Hell:
    or something along those lines.
  • The war with Heaven is gay and nobody cares.
  • Heaven should still be involved in the show someway, seeing as Charlie's end goal is to get sinners up there. Don't have Adam be their representative. If anything, given the whole Fruit of Knowledge fiasco it makes sense to me that he'd be in Hell. Instead maybe Heaven's representative should be someone like Saint Peter. He could serve as a well-meaning, accidentally condescending antagonist.
  • Alternatively, Adam (still a sinner in this hypothetical) finesses Charlie into thinking he's a representative of Heaven and he knows people in the tippy-top who would be able to help, but it turns out to be a con. Maybe he's still pissed off at Lucifer for the apple thing?
 
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Imagine letting Ari Aster make a 3-hour long schizoid meltdown about how he's scared of his mom featuring a giant penis monster but thinking you really gotta keep an eye on the spicy latinx whose writing a cartoon musical about gay demons.
Wait a minute. That's the guy who made that movie about the guy who was being raped by his son! I remember the cancerman talking about that. Small world.
 
Well, the problem is, anyone who gets successful isn't just accepted in, the gatekeepers control basic platforms. Funding. There's realistically little hop unless you check the prog stack list.

which translates to what we got with Hazbin. It was never going to be subversive, but even as prog prop it falls due to the same chilling impact of fag taste makers and sex pests.

Your lead, forced into an inorganic and uninteresting dyke romance? Oh that's because shipping from your staff. An episode that actually deals with the humanity of a protagonist in sex work? Anti gay!

Even where she got it right she had to beck peddle. Now if a twisted perverted brown girl of ambiguous sexuality is having to do that, what hope does someone with actual storytelling chops have? none.

I really think it's mostly "she's a shit-tastic writer" as much as "a fucking fujo" with a side of "she claims to be bi for clout but is grossed out by other women and likely even herself." If she's trying to do prog-stack shit she's failed, since she hasn't shown anything gay in a positive light, and the only good relationship I can think of is Moxie and Millie, which is hetero, lmao.

How anyone would struggle to find interesting dynamics between a fallen enemy from heaven and the heir of hell is beyond me, simply on the level of the natural consequences of power dynamics, tensions, and one protecting the other. Vaggie feeling obligated to pay Charlie back or otherwise staying on her good side seems natural, and if Charlie was perceptive, something she'd try to say Vaggie didn't owe her. On top of that, an angel taking the fall over killing a kid would be exceptionally compelling, and likely something Charlie would bring up when Vaggie felt like she was "kept" out of sympathy, or pity, or ass-kissed a bit too hard given the alternative is walking the streets of hell.

What's really funny to me is they stumbled on something interesting in a vapid tumblr sort of sense, but then abandoned even that:

"Vaggie wears the pants in the relationship."

To the autist, spanking it while they scroll one handed, this is little more than "VAGGIE TOPS!1one!" To everyone else with fully featured brains, something like "Oh, Vaggie makes Charlie feel safe and relieved in private, huh, that's why that relationship really works" could be realized, but that would only really work in the show if they leaned into it, showed it, and Charlie had any pressures as a princess at all, which she doesn't, and they instead glossed over their relationship except for showing Charlie as childish and stupid. Instead, it was a throwaway Instagram thing for lazy hype generation and Vivz probably thought "lol it's funny, Charlie's a child and needs a minder and I can get attention from autists with this tripe." and considered that to be on par with developing their relationship, which would be worth an episode at least.

What Charlie offers besides security, affluence, and a way for Vaggie to accomplish what she gave up heaven for is fucked up to think about, going by the show as it stands. Charlie's the only way for Vaggie to not be poor and most likely terribly abused and exploited, so if she has to put up with an idiot who is also likely a pillow queen that's not the worst deal for the pit. That said, she might well be so childish she's not sexual at all, there's that. Imagine if there was some actual exploration of a developed and deep relationship, or even one that's got more than its share of tension and friction but with actual love to smooth out the rough spots and make it work and give it some chemistry?

You don't even have to animate any icky girl girl sex, Vivz, just do the melodrama you love so much, except with some depth! Wait, this is Vivz, she's likely never had a good relationship, if one at all. I'd doubt she's had any sexual experiences that were positive, if any at all, and she's bi for clout. And honestly probably autistic.

I just realized Vaggie/Charlie and Blitzo/Stolas have many parallels. Serious lower status "pants wearer", bumbling noble who needs help; the key difference is the fujo likes gay sexuality but not lesbian sexuality, to the point that even miss cinnamon roll piper's idea of a good time can't be shown, but the fucked up shit between Stolas and Blitzo is a-okay.

Charlie getting ready to beat Val's ass getting snipped in the bud was fucking ridiculous. If she's going to bitch out that fast, have her just cry or something? Why show a glimmer of agency just to have Angel say "no just let the rapist overlord treat me like shit!"? At least crayon-drawing sped hell Piper pissed Val off. Why both Charlie and Lucifer just take shit from sinners is absolutely beyond me.

As I have just shown, even in its own terms, Hazbin fails to show gay relationships in any kind of positive light, instead going for "characters are gay and make nasty jokes" and "hell is totally seedy and Angel's a druggie prostitute sex slave faggot and he gets raped a lot." Helluva Boss's lead gay relationship is unbelievably fucked up, meanwhile the het imp couple seem to be pretty decent, albeit with Millie being pretty thin and boring because Vivz is actually straight and only likes male characters. This reminds me of how hetero MtF troon autists really only like women and their fiction is almost always nothing but women, devoid of men, just reversed. The fact that the fujo queen here managed to only show one healthy relationship, that's hetreo, is unintentionally hilarious in the most sad fucking way imaginable.

I cannot help but reflect on the fact that If Charlie was a man, we'd get "Dickie" as his angel boyfriend (lmao) and probably way more development of both characters, and Hazbin might have shown a healthy gay relationship. This would also help Vivz maintain interest since she only likes gay stuff since she's a terminal fujoshi. Instead, she went with "Disney princess in hell" in the most vapid way imaginable, lost interest in her own lead, and also managed to make the devil into an autistic Brony along the way.

The Aristofaggots.

In conclusion Vivz is an autistic fujo who needs therapy and a boyfriend who is willing to take something for the team that likely involves a bag of flour to find the wet spot.
 
Personally I just want Hitler to have a cameo standing in the background in a maid outfit, holding a pineapple
Dur liber! By my ancestors is nothing sacred?! You dare mock the pineapple heathen?

All these assholes creaming themselves over being autistic should be called out more for what it is. A bunch of retards fetishizing mental illness.
Behold the end result of letting Chris chan go on for years and years about how "awesome" his autism made him in comparison to everyone else.
 
@doodoocaca I agree with the whole “Charlie isn’t sexual” thing. She kissed Vaggie and is shown to have slept in the same bed as her, but no sexual activity is actually implied (apart from Adam making a lesbian joke).

I’m 99% certain that Charlie is still a virgin, hasn’t “scissored” Vaggie or whatever it is lesbians do (when they aren’t 55%ing each other, of course), and overall, despite her having had a boyfriend in the past, probably doesn’t even know how relationships work.

I read somewhere that a lot of bisexuals and homosexuals cling to the same sex or both sexes because of a lack of a parental figure. Considering Charlie’s status with her parents, it’d make sense why she’d go for both sexes — she craves that masculinity and femininity.

Of course, this is just me overanalyzing a fucking cartoon, and Viv obviously isn’t smart enough for such writing.
 
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