Community Quiverfull Movement Lolcows - Starring the Duggars

[Ariel]

The Duggars

Jim Bob and Michelle Duggar got married in 1984 as teenagers. Their first son Josh was born in 1986, sometime after he was born Michelle went back on on the pill. However she will managed to fall pregnant and then suffered a miscarriage. Being of the Southern Baptist persuasion at that point in their lives they dealt with it like one would deal with a 1 month old baby dying.
Somewhere around this point they got involved with the Institute of Basic Life Principles http://www.iblp.org.au/ IBLP run seminars on all kinds of 'bible based' lifestyle choices. It was founded by Bill Gothard (i'll get to him at some point) and is most definitely a cult.
Time went on, they lived in a very small ranch style house up until number 16 was born. Jim Bob has been involved with Arkansas state politics since the 90s. Now eldest son Josh has a cushy job working for the Family Research Council in Washington DC.
There is a blog about them here http://www.duggarfamilyblog.com/

I will probably expand on this post at some point.

 

[Ariel]

The Maxwells:

Themes:

• Extreme sheltering, very limited secular activities
• Family does everything together 24/7
• Scheduling every minute of every day, fun is a waste of time
• Health and exercise obsessed, but not into any specific diet woo

They tour the country in a bus named "Uriah" proselytizing for their scheduling and sheltering lifestyle and selling books they wrote about those same things.

Who they are:
Parents: Steve, Teri
Kids: Nathan, Christopher, Sarah (original kids)
Joseph, John, Anna, Jesse, Mary ("reversal kids")

Backstory:
Steve and Teri met in college (yes, college!).

Steve and Teri had three kids, the youngest a girl named Sarah. Teri had depression. The kids played Little League, Sarah wore pants on occasion, they had friends, back in the mid 80's.

Steve decided he needs to shelter the family more. TV is thrown out, kids quit Little League.

Steve became convicted that he was wrong in limiting their family size by having a vasectomy. So he had it reversed, and they went on to have five more kids, for a total of eight. (Kids born after the vasectomy reversal are often referred to on FJ as the "reversal kids.")

Things steadily get more and more sheltered and we arrive at the present day.

The youngest, Mary, is now 16. She is the only one still homeschooling. Sarah is now 31, and still not courting.

Maxwells, The Next Generation:
The two oldest kids (both sons) are married.
Nathan & Melanie have four kids: Susannah (born very ill, lived only a few days), Abigail, Bethany, Christina
Melanie's family is somewhat local. Her father is a chiropractor.

Christopher and Anna ("non-reversal Anna", "Anna-Marie") have one son, Joshua.
(Note: When Anna showed up, she was called "Anna-Marie" on the blog so as not to be confused with the Maxwell daughter Anna. Some also call her "non-reversal Anna" because of course the Maxwell daughter is one of the "reversal kids.")
Anna's family is from rural Washington. They have a goat farm and make soap.

Joshua and Christina are baby cousins born only a month apart, this year.

Joseph was engaged to be married to Elizabeth Munck in the summer of 2012, but she called it off.

Where they are:
Leavenworth, KS. They previously lived in Washington state when the older kids were little.

The main family, Nathan family, Christopher family, and Teri's parents' family (mother "Gigi") all live right on the same block in various houses.

Joseph owns a house 0.7 miles away (so far!!! so far!!!) from the main family compound, but because his planned marriage didn't happen and it just won't do for a single guy to live in a house by himself (even if he spent all kinds of time remodelling it) it sits empty while he stays living at home and sleeping in a bunk bed in the room he shares with his brothers.

More backstory: Steve served in the Air Force, has a pilot license (which he doesn't currently use), went into engineering, worked in the corporate world, moved back to KS (in corporate jobs) to be near family, eventually was "convicted" to quit his job in 1997 to come home full time to just do ministry stuff - the ministry of touring and selling books.

Interesting mystery: Before quitting his job, he posted that the company was asking him to do something that he personally felt that not only could HE not do, he didn't feel it okay to ask anyone to do it. FJ wonders just what that was? He has posted he was uncomfortable working and having a business lunch with women employees of his company, around that time frame (in the Corners).

What they do:
They have a bunch of businesses all run under the umbrella of "Communication Concepts Inc" also known as "Families for Jesus". If you surf around those websites you can find links to all their stuff, much of which is on dead websites.

So, what do they actually do?

• Advice column on their blog.
  This is the "Dad's Corner" and "Mom's Corner" series. You can find recent posts on their blog, for older stuff you need the Wayback Machine. The best way to understand all things Maxwell is to read the corners.
• Publishing.
  • Books about how to live a Maxwellian Christian life, with focus on scheduling every minute of every day, Dad leading bible study, sheltering your kids.
    
    The main point of the books is they give Christian scriptural references for everything they recommend, so it's about giving the reader reassurance that living this lifestyle is what God wants you to do.
  • Moody books for kids - written by Sarah, these are a book series about a family based on the Maxwell family that lives a Maxwellian lifestyle. The goal is to have books that the Maxwell kids would be allowed to read, so they only have TRUTH in them and no bad behavior (see further down.)
  • Scheduling how-to and kits:
    MOTH ("Managers of Their Homes")
    Chore-Paks
• Bus tours to give conferences about the content in the above stuff,
  and bluegrass concerts.
  
  They tour in a converted band tour bus, which they named "Uriah." Uriah is very nice inside, has a kitchen, bathroom with shower, bunks, bedroom for the parents. (I would love to travel in a bus like that.) They did all the work, and it's very nice.
  
  They sing with very nasal voices. This gets snarked as "Trust Eeen Obey."
• IT consulting.
  • IT On Ramp, the logo is hard to read so it gets teased as "one ton ramp."
    
    It's online classes to get your A+ certification. Hard to tell how well it's doing. Got snarked because it's "Jesus centered" (they won't make you confront any heathen ideas like evolution) and they will only let women advise women and men advise men.
  • regular IT consulting for businesses
    
    Hard to tell what's going on, they allude to it in posts but no real web presence. Probably Nathan's "regular job."
• Construction.
  They have a dead website for "Maxwell and Sons Construction" so it's hard to tell what that is doing, but when they post about fixing up their own property, they do quite nice work. They could probably easily get jobs rehabbing houses.

Religion:
Christian.

• Their big thing is "where will you go when you die?" and Ray Comfort's "Good Person Test." They hand out tracts with this message, they ask it of everyone they meet. Accept Jesus, go to heaven. Live correctly. Are you sure?
• Famously, during Christopher's wedding to Anna (which was streamed online and spawned a huge thread on Yuku) Steve gave a long sermon on DEATH. Because where will you go when you die?
• They hold church in a nursing home, Steve is the pastor. They make frequent references to "the elderly" which get snarked here.
• Lots of bible reading. They wake up to read the Bible individually while all sitting together at 6AM or so every morning, and then have family bible time actually led by Steve with everyone on the same page every night.

Holidays:

• Christmas? Yes, but without a tree. They have plain evergreen garlands and a nativity, they go caroling (and hand out tracts, of course).
• Easter? "Resurrection Sunday," and no bunny stuff. Steve has a brother into "bunny stuff" (they had an Easter egg hunt!!!) and that was given as example of relatives they should shun for having "different goals."
• Halloween? Hell no.

Beliefs that make them interesting:

• SHELTERING.The main theme of the Maxwells is sheltering. One of their best selling books "Keeping Our Children's Hearts" is all about this.
  
  Main themes are:
  • kids are never alone, family does absolutely everything together 24/7.
  • kids do not have (or need) friends, they are isolated even from other extended family members if Steve doesn't think the family is like-minded enough.
  • don't blacklist individual activities. Instead, ban everything, and then only WHITELIST specific activities that will actively help kids achieve their "goals" (in their case, worshiping Jesus 24/7)
  • "appetites" are dangerous!!! If you let a kid get an "appetite" for something that doesn't help them toward their goals, they will run with that appetite and waste time and generally fall down. Don't give your kid an "appetite" for sports lest he end up watching football on the tube (er, "The Beast") 24/7 and neglecting his family. Etc.
  • forbid all secular influence.
    • Anything read (or watched) must be TRUE. Misbehaving characters are not permitted even if they are portrayed as wrong and get a comeuppance. Portrayals of non-Christian religion are not allowed. Result: No reading except the Bible, Moody books (Little House on the Prairie is right out), and various Christian biographies.
    • Secular music lyrics just waste space in the brain. Result: they white out the lyrics to "row row row your boat" and similar in the kids' music books.
    • No news. The entire FAMILY does not take a paper, does not watch TV (which they refer to as "The Beast"), does not listen to the radio, because they don't want the kids hearing about the terrible things that go on in the world.
• SCHEDULING.
  Everyone should be on a schedule 24/7, including babies. Time is blocked out in 30 minute increments. Selling scheduling is one of the main business ventures for the family.
  
  Kids should be doing chores early, their play should be mimicking chores. The thing is to learn to enjoy working, all the time.
  
  NO FUN. Fun is a waste of time. You should find enjoyment in working and serving the Lord. Period.
• HOMESCHOOLING.
  They homeschool, with textbooks. This was controversial among some religious homeschoolers (who lean more toward Charlotte Mason) and so Teri wrote a book giving the message that it's okay to do that, that's "Managers Of Their Schools."
  
  Because they don't do higher math and they don't read literature, they don't need much time for school. Some critics of their homeschooling schedule have pointed this out, it works for the Maxwells partly because they just have less material to cover than most families do.
  
  No college for anyone. Period. Boys will get jobs that allow them to support a family on one income without debt not needing college (they put out a book on this) and girls will get married. (Well, ideally. So far Sarah is still single at 31.)
• EXERCISE/HEALTH.
  They are big into exercise. Push-up challenges, doing lunges in the parking lot next to the bus on trips, taking long walks (in the very early morning, in long skirts) to stay fit.
  
  They are somewhat into health food, but nothing crazy, they're not into any specific dietary weirdness.
  
  They do seem to eat very little and portion control. There was a post about having two animal crackers on a birthday which lives on in snark here.
• MODESTY.
  The Maxwells used to be Frumper Ground Zero. The family all wore homemade matching jumpers (in the American sense) with no waist and ankle length hems.
  
  Currently they wear "regular" skirts and shirts. Hems must be ankle length, but they are okay with short sleeves. They do the "t shirt under a regular shirt" thing often. The skirts are homemade, they buy the shirts and sweaters.
  
  They exercise in skirts. They hike in skirts. They go kayaking in skirts.
  
  The men of course wear business casual - khakis and polos.
  
  They have written about being against swimming (because in their area it's necessarily "mixed swimming") but haven't posted anything about strange bathing suits or bathing in business casual (for THAT, you need to check out the BuckHales - don't mean to derail here but you really do!!)
• NO DEBT.
  They have a big thing about each (male) child buying a house in cash debt-free to live in after marriage.
  
  Recently Joseph bought a house (0.7 miles away from Steve, which might as well be on Mars) and rehabbed it (wonderfully, I'll say!), but when his marriage was called off, he did not move into it. Presumably until he marries, he will continue to share a room with his brothers and sleep on his bunk bed.
• PEPSI.
  Teri likes Pepsi. She wrote a long post about her addiction to Pepsi in such a way that you would be certain that Pepsi was a stand-in for some hard drugs or at least alcohol, but nope, it was just Pepsi.
• BLATANT EDITING OF COMMENTS.
  The Maxwells have run various forums about their products over the years (MOTH boards) and currently accept comments on their blog.
  
  They have three controversial policies:
  • no identifying information
    Last names are removed, so you'll see lots of "the L family" and "Mrs. P" commenting, or just "Julia" and the like. They do not want commenters identifying each other or able to contact each other offline.
  • no off topic talk
    This was mostly about the MOTH boards, but any non-on-topic content would be removed (from individual posts, see below). This included any content remotely critical of Maxwell products, as well as any mention of "I love it but I also use this other thing in parallel" type comments. Also any mention of "my other contact is..." (see above).
  • editing of comments
    They (lately 100% Steve) will edit the content of submitted comments to remove offending material, and leave the signatures on! So "you" end up posting something with your name on it but the thrust of your message is all changed.
    
    If he wants to reply, he doesn't make a new comment to his own blog, either - he just edits YOUR comment to add his response in it.
• CAMWHORING.
  Constantly.
  
  The Maxwell blog has photos of the family doing various things (cooking! fixing the bus! dusting the ceiling fans!) daily. The interesting thing about all this though is that Every. Single. Picture. Is. Posed. That's right, no candids here.
  
  They go to Costco (often!) and take pictures of themselves, POSED and smiling, putting food in the cart, looking at the eggs, goodness even knows what, boring minutiae of life, but POSED!! and HAPPY!!
  
  In fact it's an interesting web scavenger hunt to search for photos of the family that were NOT taken by them. Occasionally attendees at their conferences take pics, and it's interesting to see how different they look when they are not obviously posing.
  
  Incidentally, often the boy and girl children pair up, and when a niece is also there, if you didn't know who was in the picture you'd think it was a normal young married couple with a kid. But no, it's just brother and sister, yet again, posing in the family compound expansive kitchen.

Ties to other families:

• BuckHales:
  They knew the Buckingham half of the family when they were stationed at Ft. Leavenworth (before they moved to AK).
• Duggars:
  They travelled to meet the Duggars for one of the kids' graduations. The Duggars are MOTH customers, you can see the chart on the wall in their TV show.
• Muncks:
  Joseph was engaged to the oldest daughter, Elizabeth, before she called it off this past summer.
• Rebecca K!11!!!!!
  Rebecca is a frequent commenter and Maxwell fan. She lives and blogs with her family near St. Louis, using plenty of exclamation marks because she actually has FUN and enjoys life. She seems like a nice enough sincere girl, and usually people discuss how she can do SO much better than the Maxwells. Don't fall in the trap, Rebecca!!

WEBSITE:
The main website is titus2.com . From there go to "Articles" to read the Mom and Dad's Corners, but be aware that to find the full archive you will need the Internet Wayback Machine.

I did not write this
source http://www.freejinger.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=15254

 

[Ariel]

Debi & Michael Pearl

The basics:

Michael and Debi Pearl run a ministry called No Greater Joy. Their beliefs seem to be their own brand of Christianity, and their life is one of rigid gender roles and extreme suspicion of The World (basically, anyone outside of their own group). They are KJV only. Women and girls wear skirts, but do not cover their heads.

The façade they present is that of down-home country folk, valuing the disappearing arts of living off the land. However, they make extensive use of the Internet, including Youtube videos and a website: NoGreaterJoy.com.

No Greater Joy (NJG) turns out new materials several times a year, lists over 300 products on the website, and is estimated to bring in 1.5-1.7 million dollars yearly, in contributions and sales. NGJ is registered as a 501(c)(3) non-profit organization, and the Pearls claim that all money goes back into the ministry.

They urge men to stay at home, as well as women, fully approving only of home businesses. The Pearls warn that "authority figures" (government, media, mainstream churches, medicine, education) are to be rejected and reviled, then set themselves up as the experts to be believed on any subject. As part of this paranoia, they seem to want children to think that pedophiles lurk around every corner.

They decry pornography, but Michael's writing often comes off as salacious, including his descriptions of children being whipped, observations of his own daughter's weddings, and his glee at reminding everyone around him that he and Debi are still sexually active.

They are perhaps best-known for their book To Train Up a Child (TTUAC), which appears to have been mostly written by Michael, with a few sections credited to Debi.

TTUAC encourages parents to apply pain in "training" children, starting in infancy, using various objects. It was found in the homes of Sean Paddock, Lydia Schatz, and Hana Williams, children who died due to abuse from their parents that critics feel could easily have resulted from following Pearl's advice to the letter.

The Pearls adamantly deny that they are advising hitting – for some reason, "hitting" is a horrible word, while spanking, whipping, belting, switching and chastisement are all Pearl-approved. They insist that their way is the only path to keep children from the fires of Hell.

These whippings are to be administered with a calm, cool manner, and much of their advice involves baiting children into making mistakes that will give parents an excuse to whip them.

The Pearls feel that only home-schooling is appropriate, and that the same parents who are tricking children into getting whipped should be warm, loving and totally involved with them before and after. In other words, for a child in the Pearls' world, the only source of shelter, love, comfort, food, entertainment and education is also an unpredictable source of pain.

The entire text of To Train Up a Child can be read here for free (this is maintained by someone who is not a Pearl supporter, so please don't send her hate mail!):

http://www.quicksilverqueen.com/ttuacbook.html

Spoiler: Lots More

In more detail

Michael and Debi Pearl were both raised in Memphis, Tennessee. The Pearls have been married since 1971, and have 5 children and 19 grandchildren.

Michael graduated from Mid-South Bible College in Memphis (now Victory University). He worked with Union Mission in Memphis for 25 years. They moved to rural Tennessee where they held Bible studies in local homes, and in prison.

Their children are:

Rebekah Anast – her partner is Gabe Anast, a web designer who decided to stop working altogether, and just run a now-defunct website, 7XSunday.. They have six children, Joseph Courage, Ryshoni Joy, Hannah Sunshine, Elijah Music, Chaiyah Eve and Alitsia Rin, and live, generally in abject poverty, in New Mexico.

They were sued by the Zuni Tribe, Navajo Nation, over water rights.
http://www.zunibasin.com/documents/2142.pdf

Rebekah had a blog, Dreaming Awake, on which she detailed bizarre and paranoid dreams that she felt were prophetic. She has written a book called The DaVinci Road. It is unclear what Gabe Anast is doing with his time.

Gabriel Pearl – his partner is Lori, and they are the parents of Jocelyn, Laife and Joshua Gabriel. The NGJ site describes him as a builder, and someone who employs and teaches many men, but is not clear about what he actually does. He does appear to own a business called "That BBQ Man."

Nathan Pearl – his partner is Zephyr, and they have four children. They own Cane Creek Coffee, but appear to be taking a break from that business, when last checked. He seems to be working for his parents a great deal: nogreaterjoy.org/author/nathan-pearl/

Shalom Brand – her partner is Justin Brand, who is described on NGJ as an auto mechanic and metal artist – they also appear to do a lot of work for the Pearls. In fact, when Justin had a sudden urge to pack up and move, the Pearls were miraculously moved to offer him and Shalom more work, so he would at least be wandering for them:

nogreaterjoy.org/articles/a-vision/

Their children are Gracie, Laila Truth, Parker Ford and Roland.

nogreaterjoy.org/author/shalom-brand/

Shoshanna Easling – her partner is James Easling, who is described on NGJ as an inventor and builder. They are the owners of The Bulk Herb Store, Shoshanna Gardens, and Well Tell Me. Their children are Jeremiah James and Penelope Jane.

Other info:
NGJ Youtube channel:
http://www.youtube.com/user/NGJMinistries

Bekah and Gabe's Youtube channel:
http://www.youtube.com/user/ruLISng/videos?view=0

Debi's best-known work is Created to Be His Helpmeet – an excerpt can be read here:
http://www.amazon.com/Created-Be-His-He ... hael+pearl

Debi's works also include books intended to teach children about "stranger danger" –
yellandtellbooks.com/
Don't miss the coloring pages!
Mike may have been the illustrator for these, going by this video:
[youtube]13RtFyjewtM[/youtube]

Michael is a champion knife-thrower – apparently, there is no dress code for the sport:
http://i.imgur.com/Z7bqdbc.jpg

Amazon reviews of TTUAC -- whenever the controversy flares up, Mike sends followers there to write positive reviews – many of the positive reviewers have no other review history on Amazon, and are very vague about what they like within the book – only detractors seem compelled to post actual excerpts. Feel free to add your thoughts, if you've read the book:

http://www.amazon.com/Train-Up-Child-Mi ... Descending

Links:
Wikipedia on Michael Pearl:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Pearl

Full list of products from NGJ:
nogreaterjoy.org/shop/catalog/seo_sitemap/product/

Sites critical of the Pearls:
http://whynottrainachild.com/
http://www.tulipgirl.com/index.php/cate ... debipearl/
http://www.quicksilverqueen.com/tag/michael-pearl/
http://mommylife.net/archives/mike_and_debi_p/
http://debrasrandomthoughts.blogspot.co ... e%20Pearls

Mudbrooker videos:
http://www.youtube.com/user/TheMudbrook ... hael+pearl

Anderson Cooper videos:
http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2011/08/15/v ... the-child/

The Pearls on various subjects that have been discussed on FJ:

The NGJ article in which Michael recommends using flexible plumbing supply line to whip children:
nogreaterjoy.org/articles/questions-answered/

Sitting still in church:
nogreaterjoy.org/articles/sitting-still-in-church/

The Pearls advise others that social security numbers are not needed (pg. 12, after lots of discipline and herb talk):
nogreaterjoy.org/wordpress/f/200002_March-April.pdf

NGJ post in which Pearl says adopted children from Liberia were "well-versed in all the dark arts of eroticism and ghastly perversion":
nogreaterjoy.org/articles/avoiding-vacuums/

Pearl claiming his children will be successful, and the bosses of those who are not raised by his methods:
pearlchildtraining.blogspot.com/2010/03/michael-pearl-laughs-at-critics.html

Why their children are not legally married, and a creep-tastic description of one of their weddings:
nogreaterjoy.org/articles/holy-matrimony/
nogreaterjoy.org/articles/the-wedding/

The Angry Child:
nogreaterjoy.org/articles/angry-child/

Michael Pearl is as nasty about animals as he is about children:
nogreaterjoy.org/articles/dogs-cats-and-kids/?topic_slug=babies

The “Fruit of Child Training” Webinar that the Pearls did:

A book of Debi's, that was illustrated by Michael – the cover may give some insight into why he changed his major from art to religion:
michaeldebipearl.blogspot.com/2009/11/debi-pearls-listen-to-my-dream-becomes.html

A search of Shoshanna's Well Tell Me forum for references to TTUAC, that includes a post from Rebekah Anast about the Pearls having no particular opinion about birth control:
welltellme.com/discuss/index.php?action=search2

And, just because, a pic of the Pearls as a young couple, in matching bathing suits:
http://i.imgur.com/6NYCd.jpg

Other snarkees who recommend or defend the Pearls:
Lori Alexander:
lorialexander.blogspot.com/2012/03/pray-for-michael-pearl.html
lorialexander.blogspot.com/2013/11/defending-pearls.html
tolovehonorandvacuum.com/2013/11/weekend-links-winners-cool-stuff/ (Lori went to bat for the Pearls in the comments – Ken joins in, too!)

Duggars recommending Pearl materials:
duggarfamily.com/content/amazon_blitz
http://astore.amazon.com/duggarfamily-2 ... 1892112000
http://astore.amazon.com/duggarfamily-2 ... F8&node=89
http://astore.amazon.com/duggarfamily-2 ... 1616440368
http://astore.amazon.com/duggarfamily-2 ... 1892112019

The Rodrigues family (this link has some pictures of the NGJ warehouse and large house Michael has been building):
rodriguesfamilyministries.com/main/?p=292

Cheryl Long:
treasuresfromashoebox.blogspot.com/2010/07/haleys-prayer.html
treasuresfromashoebox.blogspot.com/2013/09/created-to-be-his-help-meet-12-week.html

Bontragers:
bontragerfamilysingers.com/Links.html

David and Tim Bayly:
baylyblog.com/blog/2012/01/ugh-its-christianity-today-again-time-weighing-against-spanking

Sarah at Hearts Desire:
sarah-heartsdesire.blogspot.com/2011/09/to-train-up-child-book-review-and-my.html

Christian Hskubes:
hskubes.blogspot.com/2007/06/what-can-i-do-about-my-children.html

Tabby, of plaintorahkeeper – she took her blog post down, but here is the FJ thread about it:
http://freejinger.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=9620

Tait and Lauren Zimmerman:
zimmermanfamilyalaska.blogspot.com/2010/10/parent-training.html

Brenda at The Family Revised:
familyrevised.blogspot.com/2007/07/just-some-things-before-we-go.html

The Pearls on other snarkees:
Michael on patriarchy, Vision Form and Bill Gothard:
nogreaterjoy.org/articles/the-balanced-patriarch/
nogreaterjoy.org/articles/response-from-bill-gothard/

Source http://www.freejinger.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=15988

 

[Ariel]

Be careful with direct links to fundie blogs or websites as they tend to flounce when given negative attention. @For The Internet if you have more to say in the Duggar's OP let me know and i'll add it.

 

[Surtur]

Christ these people....

 

[Descent]

I have http://www.patheos.com/blogs/nolongerquivering/ on my facebook. I'm not the kind of person that gets upset or triggered over written stories, but holy shit, there have been a few on that site that have done it. The one where one woman was passing blood clots the size of her fist on the bathroom floor while her husband silently watched, then told her to clean it up is probably the worst. I used to have Vyckie Garrison on facebook, but she deleted me and a shit ton of people and had to go into lockdown mode when someone she knew back when she was a fundie started leaking every little thing she said.

 

[Grand Number of Pounds]

I love this quote from the Free Jinger forum:

I've read the 'Little House on the Prairie' series and Laura Ingalls Wilder went on long buggy rides with her husband-to-be without an escort. And she came from a conservative Christian family and fairly uptight parents. If Little House on the Prairie is liberal compared to the Duggars, something's wrong.

 

[The_Hissing_Vigilant]

These freaks.....makes my blood boil. Oh well at least it doesn't affect me. Still it's like. Yuck. LOL.

 

[Pine Tar]

>Reads through all that

Some people just be fucking bananas. The reason you had people having big families back in the day was either due to kids having a hit-or-miss chance to making it to 5 years old or being needed for farm work and it was usually both.

 

[BT 075]

>Reads through all that

Some people just be fucking bananas. The reason you had people having big families back in the day was either due to kids having a hit-or-miss chance to making it to 5 years old or being needed for farm work and it was usually both.

Nothing wrong with big families. What's wrong is not calling it quits when it begins to jeopardize the health of the mother and child. What's also messed up is how the Duggars train and discipline their children as infants not to crawl but to lay still in one area. They are raised from cradle to adulthood to be little worker drones and robots parroting their parents. There's zero stimulation for them to be themselves, no freedom whatsoever. The 19th century attitude where you won't even allow your kids to take a walk with a date without parental supervision, is rather messed up in my book.

If you want a large family, by all means have a large family. My problem with the Overfull movement is, primarily, the complete lack of freedom the children (and often the women in general) have. It's so cult-like I pity the Duggar child that's gay, because with 19 kids there's bound to be one that's gay. Or the daughter that's infertile. I imagine those kids would go through hell being born in such a family.

 

[The_Hissing_Vigilant]

There are two people in the world. Those who believe in God and those who think they are God.
The first are spiritual people who do not use God as a crutch or an excuse to control others.
The latter, are are these freaks. These freaks, straight to fucking hell.
I don't think a great creator would want us to be like that.
If I were God, I would not create people so they could be a bunch of drones.

 

[Hummingbird]

I have to wonder what's going to happen when even one of these kids ends up having to move away (such as getting a new job) or the parents die before the kids are old enough to marry.

 

[The Dude]

A lot of you know that I'm LDS/Mormon. Big families are popular with my religion. So is home schooling. My wife is a teacher and has has several students who have been home schooled previously. They always turn out weird. No social skills, very awkward, and usually are far behind their peers academically. My wife has said many times that even with her degrees in education and child psychology, her licenses, and her nearly a decade of teaching experience that she would not feel competent home schooling our children, yet the majority of parents who home school do not have any of this experience and often only have a GED or high school diploma. No higher learning experience. I knew a couple kids in high school who were home schooled and came from very strict LDS families. Their whole families were very odd, and kind of creepy. I'm not going to tell other people how to raise their kids, but I'm pretty against home schooling. These kids will lack important social skills that are required to be successful as an adult. They are unable to have healthy relationships with their peers and if they are unable to start a romantic relationship with someone else who was raised in a similar lifestyle they will most likely never marry and have dozens of children of their own.

 

[Ancani]

Personally, speaking as someone who was partially homeschooled for her final years of high school, I don't think it's inherently a bad thing--though like I said, it was partial homeschooling in my case, and the parents worked pretty closely with the teachers who taught the on-site classes (which helped with the socialization aspect). But put in the hands of people who were a little off to begin with, it can definitely fuck kids up.

Also, the Quiverfull movement (and related sects) really creeps me out. Especially the ones that won't let their kids experience anything secular...those poor children are going to be SO fucked up, I swear.

 

[Uzumaki]

The problem with home schooling is parents go on and on about "their" rights like they own their child. The child has a right to a real education, not your best attempt at a replacement. You don't get to decide for another human being that they don't get to be educated.

 

[Surtur]

Personally, speaking as someone who was partially homeschooled for her final years of high school, I don't think it's inherently a bad thing--though like I said, it was partial homeschooling in my case, and the parents worked pretty closely with the teachers who taught the on-site classes (which helped with the socialization aspect). But put in the hands of people who were a little off to begin with, it can definitely fuck kids up.

Also, the Quiverfull movement (and related sects) really creeps me out. Especially the ones that won't let their kids experience anything secular...those poor children are going to be SO fucked up, I swear.

Yeah, but in your case you already got the proper socialization. I think that's my big beef with homeschool.

 

[Ancani]

The problem with home schooling is parents go on and on about "their" rights like they own their child. The child has a right to a real education, not your best attempt at a replacement. You don't get to decide for another human being that they don't get to be educated.

Eh, agreed to an extent. There are areas where the public school system is unbelievably awful (I'm speaking from personal experience--abusive teachers, uncaring faculty, limited resources for both gifted and special needs kids...), and not everyone can afford private school. (And getting into charter schools is generally a matter of luck.) Sometimes homeschooling your kid, at least partially, is pretty much the only option.

That's why I ended up in partial homeschool--I had gotten into a charter school, but the course load was so insane that I nearly flunked out (to give you some perspective, a full college courseload has proved easier for me), and public school...well, given my experiences, we decided it simply wasn't an option. And we couldn't afford private school for high school.

But I do agree that socialization is super important--I think some areas have homeschooling groups where kids can socialize, but those aren't mandatory. I'm not sure I could advocate full homeschooling for younger kids unless they were enrolled in such a group.

 

[The_Hissing_Vigilant]

The homeschooling part, from my personal experience.

I would never have kids, but if I did I would want to homeschool. The culteral marxism is going way to far. I mean, fine. Be gay/lesbian/bi, fine....that's their business....but pushing it like they do.
When I was in school Michael Moore movies in social studies. These teachers are being like the Christians they hate so much. I was frustrated and wanted to learn things, NOT about what Micheal Moore thinks.

The public school system is such shit. This year we had a Provincial teachers strike. Bitching and moaning about their $85,000 yearly salaries. Pul-eeze. There are Doctors cleaning out drain pipes due to shit economy and prosecuting attorneys getting paid $35,000 annually. My dad and I who works in landscaping/construction have had it hard. I had threats verbal and pysical put against me for "taking jobs away from others" than teachers whining that they don't get paid in the summer......

Cry me a fucking river.....silly public teachers, and that's just one part of it. A lot of kids in that community are homeschooled because of the whineyness.

That kind of shit scares me. That level of entitlement. The kids seeing the teachers do that. Kids being around that kind of shit. Not cool. Kids were upset and wanted to move on with their fucking lives.

 

[Enjoy your spaghetti]

What do you mean by "pushing it?" Or "cultural Marxism"?

 

[littlebiscuits]

I have such feelings about the Dugger girls. I'm 100% pro-free Jinger. That girl is awesome, and it would break my heart if her father sells her to the nearest available fundie boy the second she even thinks of moving out, the way he did with Jessa. Also heartbreaking: the oldest Dugger girl Jana, deeply wanted to be a NeoNatal ICU Nurse. It was her dream, but you know, girls can't go to college! So no nursing school for her.