Weeb Wars / AnimeGate / #KickVic / #IStandWithVic / #vickicksback - General Discussion Thread

RodgerDodger said:
Your both assuming that BHBH will have to defend a position of “well how can you be against a confidentiality agreement now when you argued for one earlier?” That’s BS and I doubt they will stand and take that. The question is why is Casey now demanding that which he forced a hearing and court expenses to argue against? Particularly damning is Casey’s direct communications of his clients wishes regarding the other “victims”, on the record. Fuck trying to argue against “confidentiality”, Ty should going in there and demanding sanctions, particularly legal costs for the last hearing and this one. Beard and Vic really don’t care regarding confidentiality. It doesn’t impact their case. But Bullshit games do. And they should be assigned a cost.

Opposing councils don’t have to play nice. But there is a difference between playing hardball and acting in bad faith. This sudden concern for the confidentiality of the poor weeping fujoshis and pulltards reeks of bad faith.
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There's two ways to go about this in all honesty: you could fight it like you said OR you could agree to a confidentiality agreement. Now hear me out. Let's say there's terms in which the depositions cannot be made public for a certain amount of time (90 days or something) out of good faith. We both know Rial and Toye are unable to keep their mouths' shut. So it'll absolutely be leaked out to the public regardless. Like if they find out Nick was making out and in a relationship with somebody they never imagined you can beat Rial and Toye will be gleeful so much they'll be telling all of their friends and the Shanes and other white knights of the world and it will spread like a wildfire. That's certainly something to think about.
 
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Commander said:
Like if they find out Nick was making out and in a relationship with somebody they never imagined you can beat Rial and Toye will be gleeful so much they'll be telling all of their friends and the Shanes and other white knights of the world and it will spread like a wildfire. That's certainly something to think about.
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Nick would never cheat on the missus.
 
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Commander said:
There's two ways to go about this in all honesty: you could fight it like you said OR you could agree to a confidentiality agreement. Now hear me out. Let's say there's terms in which the depositions cannot be made public for a certain amount of time (90 days or something) out of good faith. We both know Rial and Toye are unable to keep their mouths' shut. So it'll absolutely be leaked out to the public regardless. Like if they find out Nick was making out and in a relationship with somebody they never imagined you can beat Rial and Toye will be gleeful so much they'll be telling all of their friends and the Shanes and other white knights of the world and it will spread like a wildfire. That's certainly something to think about.
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I wouldn’t agree to confidentiality. They’re only asking for it now because they’re probably having a hard time finding anyone willing to put their name to paper that Vic assaulted or harassed them. The few that are probably have some lame story about Vic wearing a cologne that offended them. And like you said they’re going to leak shit regardless of any agreements.
 
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ThonyTheThaigirl said:
Yeah, they'll almost certainly want proper answers to the interrogatories prior to the depositions.

I have one tiny fear, though, and that's the fact that BHBH did argue for a confidentiality agreement for the exact reason that Casey currently is. Turning it down is going to make them look silly to the KV social media crowd, despite how little we actually care about them. On the plus side, though, there could be real punishment for MoRonica and Casey for pulling this stunt, in which case it's still a win, really. My only concern is that it does give them a tiny win in the realm of public opinion, but, in the end, their opinions are worth squat. Another option is actually respecting that agreement but also asking for punishment for the rule breaking. This is a double win for Vic, technically, although we do obviously want the case as public as we can get it.
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To be fair, by the time the hearing finished Mr. Bullock is on record saying they no longer needed a rule 11 agreement or for anything to be sealed.
 
Slab Bulkhead said:
The thing is they only want confidentiality for their 'victims' meaning they don't want to actually have to pony up and provide the identities. They know if they do, their stories will be picked apart by the Kiwis within the first day or two. That information would then be relayed to BHBH and it'd get torn to shreds further.
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That’s just it. Their stand on confidentiality is just a rather obvious sham with which to attempt to withhold discovery. I have trouble picturing the Judge, or any Judge, seeing it any other way.
 
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Yeah, the transcript made it pretty clear the judge was a bit miffed he was having to play dad, and this is a case of one party being the reason he had to play dad in the first place now wanting the exact thing that party repeatedly maintained they did not want.

If this gets in front of the judge again before depos even happen I can take a wild ass guess he might be fuming especially since he's set aside his time to rule on deposition issues specifically to resolve issues which would be normally handled by the at-issue confidentiality agreement. I'd guess there's a good chance that goes poorly for Casey, though as Nick pointed out, that may not be the point since Casey might just be buying time hoping other parties do the TCPA filing for him since he talked himself into the corner in the original hearing in that regard.
 
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HarblMcDavid said:
Yeah, the transcript made it pretty clear the judge was a bit miffed he was having to play dad, and this is a case of one party being the reason he had to play dad in the first place now wanting the exact thing that party repeatedly maintained they did not want.

If this gets in front of the judge again before depos even happen I can take a wild ass guess he might be fuming especially since he's set aside his time to rule on deposition issues specifically to resolve issues which would be normally handled by the at-issue confidentiality agreement. I'd guess there's a good chance that goes poorly for Casey, though as Nick pointed out, that may not be the point since Casey might just be buying time hoping other parties do the TCPA filing for him since he talked himself into the corner in the original hearing in that regard.
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Is antagonizing the judge presiding over the case worth the money, though? I mean, I'm just a tard on the internet, not a super lawyer, so I don't really know…
 
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HarblMcDavid said:
Yeah, the transcript made it pretty clear the judge was a bit miffed he was having to play dad, and this is a case of one party being the reason he had to play dad in the first place now wanting the exact thing that party repeatedly maintained they did not want.

If this gets in front of the judge again before depos even happen I can take a wild ass guess he might be fuming especially since he's set aside his time to rule on deposition issues specifically to resolve issues which would be normally handled by the at-issue confidentiality agreement. I'd guess there's a good chance that goes poorly for Casey, though as Nick pointed out, that may not be the point since Casey might just be buying time hoping other parties do the TCPA filing for him since he talked himself into the corner in the original hearing in that regard.
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IIRC, if the other parties file a TCPA, it has no affect on MoRon. (I could be wrong)
 
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So, a while back, @Make Anime Illegal said that he'd been able to get the information from the Tumblr blog that MoRon cited in their initial response and put it into a spreadsheet form so that it would be easier to look through. Having now done what Casey Erick seems to think BHBH should do in lieu of Toye providing answers to questions (including names, dates & details of events) and in essence Googled it, here is how MoRon's evidence is looking.

Looking at the posts (credit for organizing & summarizing all posts goes to @Make Anime Illegal, I just read some stuff), we have a total of 91 accusations. Because the blog was a catch-all for a variety of stories, I divided the accusations up into 6 different categories. Some of the posts contained more than one accusation (i.e., Vic shouted at me for drawing Yaoi in front of the whole convention and then afterwards grabbed my ass to make me feel better), and posts that had multiple accusations like this were included in each of the categories that they fell into for the sake of thoroughness, meaning that the 91 accusations total includes some stories that were counted twice.

Category 1. Vic is religious

Accusations fit this category if they dealt with his behavior or views that would be predominantly motivated by his religious beliefs. The accusations split largely into two types; he made his religious beliefs public, and he was homophobic. There were 15 accusations that fell into this category.

  • Asked audience to pray
  • Preached Christianity and insulted those who didn’t agree
  • Didn’t use pronouns, shoved religious paraphernalia at someone
  • Greg hates Vic for being Jesus-pushing, gay-hating sell-out
  • Uses popularity to spread his religion via his Sunday Morning with Vic panel (ACEN, no date, anonymous)
  • Panel went overtime for “religious ceremony,” treated staff like servants. (Second-hand account, no time, place or name)
  • Gave gay fan religious CD about homosexuality being wrong (Not at the convention claimed, other details wrong)
  • Homophobe, no details
  • Demanded religious panel (Anime Banzai, no date, no name)
  • Should be banned for his views (No details)
  • Narrated gay erotica despite being homophobe (No details)
  • Refused to sign 13yo girl’s poster because her necklace had a pentagram
  • Banned the word ‘yaoi’ from fanclub chatroom
  • Told poster’s ‘best friend’s gay friend’ he was going to hell. (No place, no date, no names)
  • Vic lied about a conversation to mask his homophobia (actual video of the conversation makes the poster’s interpretation highly dubious)


Category 2. Vic is a Diva/Douche

Accusations fit this category if they involved Vic behaving badly, but not specifically on issues dealing with his religion, or issues of sexuality. They cover a wide range of evil famous person behavior, from yelling at people, being demanding of Con staff, being thoughtless and rude, having an inflated ego, etc. There were 44 accusations that fell into this category.

  • Lied about receiving Yaoi
  • Preached Christianity, panel ran over, screamed at next panelist, yelled at a girl with yaoi; (no location, no date, no names)
  • Vic is late a lot
  • Vic is a jerk, ‘assaulted fans’ (second hand account, no locations, dates, or names)
  • Insulted fan over drawn picture w/ 2 male characters, was handsy while taking picture.
  • Arrogant, only wanted to meet fans who knew him & arranged it, a bit touchy and huggy
  • Made uncomfortable jokes about underaged characters, made homophobic comments (AWA, no date, gaydeliverydriverunion)
  • Blacklisted from con for staff mistreatment (no location, no date, no names)
  • Entitled, rude, uses manipulative language when addressing complaints, homo-queasy; (no location, pre-2008, no names)
  • Gave a person a hug w/o asking, called fans sweetie/honey, wrote too many words on picture he’d been asked to sign
  • AWA in September (presumably 2014), Vic’s panel shut down and police called. Person admits it is a rumor, has no confirmation. (AWA, Sept 2014, no names - no police report)
  • Vic and Todd caused delay in programming by fighting over their own panel (convention in the north, no date, story secondhand from nameless friend)
  • Over demanding douchebag, pissed at petty bullshit (convention in the south, no date, no names)
  • Treated staff badly at east coast con for 6 years in a row (second hand story, no place, no dates – pre-2014, no name)
  • Cocky, self-centered, arrogant, 'maniacle' (no place, no date, no name though claims to work with Vic both on and off the stage)
  • Vic was ‘a dick,’ demanded to stay in 5 star hotel. (Story claimed to be from a panel hosted by the organizers of Sunnycon, no date, no names)
  • Received gift from fan and gave it to his girlfriend (No date, no place, no name)
  • Demanded imported water & snack foods, blocked hallways (Hal-con 2013, anonymous PA) Vic never attended Hal-Con.
  • Rude to people on flight (from Heathrow to LAX, the week of Aug 14, 2014, anonymous)
  • Didn’t read fan’s email closely enough
  • Seemed fake, words were cheap and sugary
  • Accidentally elbowed person while being swarmed with fangirls
  • Negligently photo-bombed picture
  • Pushed down girl because he was irate the overhead speakers pronounced his name wrong (SAC-anime 'a few years back' -before 2014- no names)
  • Vic drinks, lashed out at con staff, creeped on under aged girls in the ‘green room’ (person claims to be a guest who often appears with Vic at cons, gives no dates, places, or names)
  • Vic is terrible & another VA hates him (no place, no dates, no names)
  • Chris had to tell Vic to calm down & knock it off after Vic got angry at Greg Ayres (No place, no date, no names)
  • Anonymous poster claims to be friends w/ Greg Ayres and says Vic is a jerk when not at a panel. Gives no details.
  • Vic got a con to close the dealer’s floor so he could practice singing w/o being accidentally overheard. (Ikkicon 2009, no names. Vic was not at that convention)
  • Vic cancelled a convention only a day or two before it happened, despite being guest of honor (no place, no date, no names)
  • Kept fans waiting for two and a half hours, nicer to Ouran fans than FMA fans (No place, 2012, no names)
  • Vic was sufficiently rude to previous panel guests (actors from Merlin) that the actor who played Percival nearly attacked him. (MCM Birmingham 2012, anonymous – other details in the story are false, suggesting skepticism is merited) (Blog recounting the panel in question has none of the details included about Vic despite the blogger being the last person to ask a question, putting their question at the time of the alleged near-fight - https://rupertfyoung.com/2012/03/mcm-expo-birmingham-2012/)
  • Wouldn’t sign a fan’s shirt because he “only signs things for pretty girls” (no place, no dates, poster therewalksaking-blog is relating second-hand account from friend)
  • Banned from Con for bad behavior & being difficult with staffers.
  • Made bad joke about kamikaze pilots
  • Vic sold his iphone on ebay for $1,000.
  • Blocked a hallway while taking pictures with fangirls (no place, no date, no names)
  • Lies about his age, had two facelifts and a hair transplant, treats people like crap (no place, no date, no names, no details – no actual claim of firsthand knowledge, and poster was wrong about Vic’s age)
  • Made con reschedule events due to scheduling conflict, behavior caused con to blacklist him (No place, 2011, no names)
  • Vic was a douche and said service at the con was terrible (secondhand account, Anime Banzai, no date, no names)
  • Pulled a ‘Do you know who I am?!’ with hotel security. (Youma 2010, anonymous)
  • Late to panel, unapologetic (ACEN 2012, anonymous)
  • Referred to someone’s brother as ‘moon child,’ requested sparkling water with extra fizz (Second hand story, ACEN, no date, no names)
  • Shh’ed and leered a female con staffer (Youmacon 2007, anonymous – Vic was not a guest at Youmacon 2007)


Category 3. Vic is Hugsy/Handsy

Accusations fit this category if they involved Vic giving unwanted (or wanted at the time, but later unwanted, or wanted, but someone else thought it was creepy) physical contact that cannot be classified as sexual. This would involve kisses on the cheek, hugs, or touching that was claimed to be intrusive but didn't involve grabbing breasts/butts. There were 21 accusations in this category.

  • Hands too low on back during picture; (no place, no date, no name)
  • Vic is a jerk, ‘assaulted fans’ (second hand account, no locations, dates, or names)
  • Insulted fan over drawn picture w/ 2 male characters, was handsy while taking picture.
  • Arrogant, only wanted to meet fans who knew him & arranged it, a bit touchy and huggy
  • Pulled minor close for picture, made very crude passes at friend (no place, no date, no name)
  • Gave a person a hug w/o asking, called fans sweetie/honey, wrote too many words on picture he’d been asked to sign
  • Hands too close to chest for picture, pulled against table, kissed neck and used pet names. AnimeExpo Regina, May (2014? Post says ‘May of this year’ but was made in February… Vic was not at that convention in either 2013, 2014 or 2015)
  • At OHSHC panel, jumped off stage to kiss a 16yo girl on the cheek, close to her mouth. (No year, second-hand account, no location, reported by bootybasket)
  • 15-16yo unintentionally became part of a hug line, Vic hugged her despite protestations, tried to follow her to her room. (Claims originally posted in 2011 but given the age claimed would have happened in 2009 at earliest, Nan Desu Kan in Denver, CO - Vic attended that con in 2008)
  • ‘touchy’ with 12yo during pictures
  • Hugs male cosplayer after ice water challenge w/o permission (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdjhq4XoUl0)
  • Touched fan’s hair w/o permission. Fan was fine w/ it at the time, realized it was wrong years later (Supanova 2012, Anonymous)
  • Vic’s kiss on the cheek was so overpowering for young fan, she swooned & Vic did nothing to help her recover. (No place, no date, no name)
  • Vic kissed girl on cheek (turns out to be a fan who has said Vic did nothing wrong)
  • Vic was ‘all up on’ a young looking girl when they took a picture together. (No place, no date, no name)
  • Vic has reputation for hitting on young ladies, asked a fan ‘Who’s this pretty little girl?’ (east coast convention, 2011, no name)
  • Kissed young girls on the cheek during photographs (Banzaicon, Oct 2012, anonymous)
  • Kissed 14yo girl’s hand during signing & asked to meet her later (No place, no date, no names)
  • Told con attendee she was beautiful and grabbed her waist (no place, no date, no name)
  • Unwanted touching of arm & hand. (No place, ~2007-2008, no names)
  • Fan received foot massage from Vic (Akon, no date, anonymous)


Category 4. Vic engaged in inappropriate sexual touching

Accusations would fit this category if they included Vic touching a persons' buttocks or breasts. There were five accusations in this category. This would be the first category of accusations that would border on criminal depending on the jurisdiction and time, and of the five accusations on the blog, three were easily disprovable with a simple websearch based on details provided in the stories.

  • Grabbed ass (Otakon, no time, no name, not upset at the time)
  • Touched female fan’s ass in public (Anime Expo 2012? – but comment is preceded by ‘not the first time I’ve seen’ so date and time may not apply, the cousin of techykun30) – not a guest of Anime Expo in 2012, other details in account wrong
  • Grabbed chests of minors while taking photos with them (Hal-con 2013, anonymous PA) – Vic appears to have never been a guest of Hal-Con
  • Grabbed chest of girl while singing ‘Happy Birthday’ to her during panel. (MCM Birmingham 2012, anonymous post – video of the incident shows nothing untoward happened)
  • Person was able to feel Vic’s erection while hugging for a picture (No place, 2011, no name)


Category 5. Other inappropriately sexual behavior

Accusations fit this category if they had sexual overtones, but no physical touch. There were four accusations in this category. Three involved extensive online interaction, but no screen shots, emails, texts or other evidence was provided.

  • Asked adult lesbian to strip over skype, pursued woman despite lack of interest (no location, no dates, anonymous hearsay)
  • Gave cell and room number to a minor, Funi broke contract w/ Vic 2013 and rehired him w/o explanation (AWA, 2013 or before, anonymous hearsay)
  • After receiving fake sexy pics as part of an alleged Risembool Ranger's practical joke, attempted to meet up w/ person who sent them for sex, while engaged. (No location, no date, no names)
  • Flirted with underaged fan over email, wanted to hook up (No details)


Category 6. Sexual Intercourse

I really wanted to use the title "Vic Might Not Actually Be a Virgin" for the spoilers for this category, but given that it's the most significant category of accusations, and there are only two of them, it seemed silly to create a spoiler just for that.

Accusations fit this category if it involves sexual intercourse. There were two accusations in this category.

The first involved the story of a girl who claimed that she went to one of Vic's Sunday Christian panels, but was the only attendee who showed up. In the course of the meeting, Vic took her virginity, and afterwards told her she was a horrible person. There is no place, time or name given. In order for this story to be true, it would mean that there would have had to be an advertised panel for Vic with only one person bothering to show up. Seems dubious.

The second story was written by a poster, who had been told by a friend, who had been told by a person who attended a Convention somewhere, that they had seen Vic take a girl to his room, and later the girl told the person that she and Vic had had sex. Not sure whether that's third hand or fourth hand information at this point, but there was no place, no date, and no names given with the story.

There you have it, Kiwis! This is the information MoRon are building their case on! Of all 91 accusations, not a single one included the name of the accuser, and most also failed to include times and dates. Are you all ready to switch to KickVic?
 
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ShinyStar said:
There you have it, Kiwis! This is the information MoRon are building their case on! Of all 91 accusations, not a single one included the name of the accuser, and most also failed to include times and dates. Are you all ready to switch to KickVic?
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Amazing. Not even a second of critical thought was used in ANY of the accusations or by MoRon. The most important things about accusations is that they have to be swift, reliable, and exact. Many people have said this, and I'll say it as well, look at the ProJared dumpster fire. The minute that the floodgates opened, an entire deluge of verifiable and exact information poured out. It's basically comparing a flood to a water filled pothole.
 
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