Diseased #Comicsgate - The Culture Wars Hit The Funny Books!

I was referring to his 80ies pre-Marvel New Mutants work including indies 'Ex-Mutants" and DC's 'Hawk & Dove' that I know and have copies of.
 
Uranus Pink said:
Liefeld is an example of someone who's art devolved as he was capable of drawing properly proportioned human bodies including feet back when he was still a virtual nobody drawing indie comics.
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Rob "Pouch-In-A-Pouch" Liefeld?
 
5t3n0g0ph3r said:
Rob "Pouch-In-A-Pouch" Liefeld?
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Stab You in the Back said:
You could fix it by having young Bobby walk up to Jean:

Young Bobby: "Hey, Jean, remember when you told me I was gay? Well, I'm not."
Young Jean: "I know, I was just messing with you."
*smash cut to Adult Bobby being told by a doctor that he has AIDS*
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I put this in the comics sperg thread, but my idea is that Jean is subconsciously rewriting both Bobby's personalities/sexualities because she thinks they're gay - and she's from the 60s so she makes them her understanding of a gay man, that is shallow, sex-obsessed narcissists.

It would certainly explain a lot. And they shit on Jean so much that it wouldn't be a big change for her to be that much of a hazard that she's rewriting her friends.

I didn't find out how Bobby came out until a long time afterwards. I was not surprised that such a 'problematic' way, where a teenage psychic basically bullies a teenage boy and his older version into admitting something she invaded their minds to find out, all under the guise of helping - all of that didn't matter to SJWs, because muh representation, muh gay superhero, and so on. Out a troon and you've murdered them, but out a gay kid and he's expected to be grateful. Funny that.
 
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damian said:
I think I got a stroke while reading Batman #68, I completely blocked it out:
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I haven't read the comic and I'm not gonna deny if it's bad or not but 5 minutes into this video and it's fucking insufferable. Why is it that no one who makes videos about comic books can do it without being fucking awful? Get to the fucking point and stop it with the garbage clips in the background. Comic Tropes seems to be the only person whose not insanely obnoxious to watch
 
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Next Task said:
I put this in the comics sperg thread, but my idea is that Jean is subconsciously rewriting both Bobby's personalities/sexualities because she thinks they're gay - and she's from the 60s so she makes them her understanding of a gay man, that is shallow, sex-obsessed narcissists.

It would certainly explain a lot. And they shit on Jean so much that it wouldn't be a big change for her to be that much of a hazard that she's rewriting her friends.

I didn't find out how Bobby came out until a long time afterwards. I was not surprised that such a 'problematic' way, where a teenage psychic basically bullies a teenage boy and his older version into admitting something she invaded their minds to find out, all under the guise of helping - all of that didn't matter to SJWs, because muh representation, muh gay superhero, and so on. Out a troon and you've murdered them, but out a gay kid and he's expected to be grateful. Funny that.
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If they really needed to do a gay X-man, besides using and upselling Northstar into the team since he actually was established as being gay decades ago, the one I'd actually pick is Hank McCoy. Mainly because you can make him this cultured, erudite bear of a man who evokes a bit of Old Fritz of Prussia in that respect. Genteel at home, a brute on the field. Hangs out every now and again at night clubs but still has his dignity.

But then again this is Cima Grace, a man I legit would not be shocked is actually a man playing at being gay and actually hates them given how cartoonish he acts.

I really do like your idea of a retcon; I still think it'd be better to not give it any dignity by just having those issues be ignored, but I like the take that Jean is being a bitch again and rewriting reality without realizing it.
 
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Adamska said:
If they really needed to do a gay X-man, besides using and upselling Northstar into the team since he actually was established as being gay decades ago, the one I'd actually pick is Hank McCoy. Mainly because you can make him this cultured, erudite bear of a man who evokes a bit of Old Fritz of Prussia in that respect. Genteel at home, a brute on the field. Hangs out every now and again at night clubs but still has his dignity.
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A better fit and a way better treatment than poor Bobby got, but we run into the same problem with a character that was written as straight for 60 years. Beast has a small but well documented history with the ladies and several storylines revolving around the friction between his heterosexual/romantic attraction to the women and the fact that he's a big blue furry hunk. (Not a problem for me, but apparently the women of the 70's and 80's did have a limit for tolerating body hair.) Trying to write him as gay at this point would contradict that jarringly - going with a bisexual angle would work better, because at least then you could say he just avoided his lust for man-ass during the decades it wasn't accepted, but thats still a stretch. Maybe an alternative timeline Beast, but that might feel cheap and contrived.

The central problem remains the same - Beast has 60+ years of being written and conceptualized as straight. Might be better to just start from scratch.

Adamska said:
But then again this is Cima Grace, a man I legit would not be shocked is actually a man playing at being gay and actually hates them given how cartoonish he acts.
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Lispy queers like Grace and Maza make me, a gay dude, want to go fag-bashing. Every time they pull the stupid shit they do it just perpetuates all the negative stereotypes.
 
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JohnDoe said:
A better fit and a way better treatment than poor Bobby got, but we run into the same problem with a character that was written as straight for 60 years. Beast has a small but well documented history with the ladies and several storylines revolving around the friction between his heterosexual/romantic attraction to the women and the fact that he's a big blue furry hunk. (Not a problem for me, but apparently the women of the 70's and 80's did have a limit for tolerating body hair.) Trying to write him as gay at this point would contradict that jarringly - going with a bisexual angle would work better, because at least then you could say he just avoided his lust for man-ass during the decades it wasn't accepted, but thats still a stretch. Maybe an alternative timeline Beast, but that might feel cheap and contrived.
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Yeah, I kind of figured that Beast and really, most of the X-men were a no, because this idiotic push from Marvel just plain won't work for pretty much all of them. I just went with the one original X-man that this would be least noticeable, since Cyclops is super-out due to his history with Jean and later angst, Iceman should never ever fucking have been the pick due to being a ladies man, Warren for a similar reason, and Jean being L fails like Scott being G due to her being the other half of the romance angst line.

Changing Beast by comparison is less noticeable due to said presence and would actually be a good twist, because most people think of twinks as the gay man in a group, not the big burly bear.
JohnDoe said:
The central problem remains the same - Beast has 60+ years of being written and conceptualized as straight. Might be better to just start from scratch.
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Or just upsell and integrate Northstar from Alpha Flight into the X-men given that he's been written consistently as gay for decades at this point and has enough baggage, drama, and points to write about to be able to make a major character in a team book if written decently. He's a cut above most C-listers in that respect. This in reality is what they should have done.
JohnDoe said:
Lispy queers like Grace and Maza make me, a gay dude, want to go fag-bashing. Every time they pull the stupid shit they do it just perpetuates all the negative stereotypes.
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Grace doesn't feel like a gay person at all to me; he feels like the gay man version of Rachel Dolezal whenever he writes or talks due to acting like the queer version of a minstrel show, so basically a big liar looking for pity.

Wait... did Cima Grace write the Rawhide Kid Reboot that Marvel did ages ago? Because that was equally minstrel show.
 
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JohnDoe said:
The central problem remains the same - Beast has 60+ years of being written and conceptualized as straight. Might be better to just start from scratch.
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That's the same as Iceman and they clearly didn't give a shit.
 
Jub-Jub said:
For the most part I'll agree with you, but don't undersell the importance of a story. Eye candy will certainly help your story being read/seen, but will be easily forgotten once the next visual spectacle comes along. @FROG will attest the OT Star Wars will forever live in peoples hearts because at its core is a fun space adventure story, while the much flashier ST is already reviled by a lot of the core audience due to the terrible writing. As another example one of the hottest manga/anime productions right now is One Punch Man, but it only got to be the way it is now due to the story. Here is a same scene comparison of the webcomic (drawn by the author, ONE) to the manga redraw (Yusuke Murata).
View attachment 821654
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Awesome!
Yeah writing is what I wanna do so I wouldn't undersell it... tbh I while I'm not an amazing drawer I could make something "CalArty", and the comic I'm planning is aimed at younger teens - I wouldn't say they have lower standards or anything, but there's enough CalArt style out there for mine to not look bad in comparison, and the story is (I think!) fairly original and appealing to that age group, so I might as well give it a try...
 
RockVolnutt said:
I imagine I'm not alone in this but it's difficult for me to look at any X-Men thing with Iceman anymore due to the big gay push. Both the really questionable Bendis "reveal" and Sina Grace's sitcom gay stereotype clash heavily with the character's history. Even a bisexual Iceman would work better and I wouldn't care if his main love interest was a guy, it's just whatever he is now shits all over what used to be one of my favorite X-Men with how radically different it is.

The character's main flaw was his immaturity destroying his relationships and chances of going places in his life, making him gay and treating that fatal flaw as quirky is not really character development.

Is that blarms tier to admit this? It's pretty repulsive.
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I said it in another thread but they could have gone serious and had him get raped or something on grindr and they could have used it to show the stigma of what male sa survivors go through and the ramifications of that. Instead we got Love Simon the miniseries.

Better yet make him bisexual ala Constantine so you aren't completely changing his characterization.

As a side note, the best outrage was Liefield throwing a shitfit over Rictor/Shatterstar. It was perfectly fine because it had been heavily foreshadowed for years.

Iceman's just came outta nowhere. The only two instances that I can think of are his relationship with Cloud in the 80s Defenders, and a moment in Chuck Austen's flop Uncanny one where Northstar crushes on him.

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Like the fuck is this
 
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Adamska said:
Iceman should never ever fucking have been the pick due to being a ladies man
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That's actually how they justify it. The assumption is he ran through relationships because he's really gay, as opposed to his immaturity, and in X-Men #1 Bobby does the whole "Jean? Come talk to me, I'm not like the other guys." act so some people claim Stan Lee intended it even if he was nuts over her like the other guys in following issues and Stan was confused when asked about it in interviews.

Of course, Stan Lee X-Men seems to be a thing no one read as everyone thinks it had the Civil Rights metaphors that the All-New X-Men really started. Lee seemed to tie the X-Men to nuclear power and Magneto was a generic take over the world guy than whatever "Malcolm X" metaphor people tell you.
 
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CheezzyMach said:
Yeah his humility and sense of humor regarding how terrible his art was has caused people to 180 their opinions on him in recent years.

It's almost like all it takes to not be hated by comic spergs is not being an arrogant asshole.
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I documented a recent attack on Liefeld by the SJW left but never posted it.
He made claims about DC Vertigo being shit and pissed off a bunch of liberals. They mass flagged his account and Rob was suspended for a few hours.
If you missed his rant it was only up for a minute before he got suspended but the gist of it was that SJW comics are a self defeating circle jerk. He went on to say he would get blacklisted and fucked over for exposing info.
 
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