Inactive Nick Bate / Nickalaus B. Stoutzenberger (Thread 2: THE RECKONING)

[AnOminous]

But involuntary manslaughter is you accidentally murder someone without meaning to. Involuntary/voluntary isn't about the victim, it's usually the perp.

Not in this case it isn't.

 

[4Macie]

Not in this case it isn't.

I see, Interesting.

 

[BlueArmedDevil]

But involuntary manslaughter is you accidentally murder someone without meaning to. Involuntary/voluntary isn't about the victim, it's usually the perp.

in·vol·un·tar·y
inˈvälənˌterē/ spontaneous, instinctive, unconscious, unintentional, uncontrollable;More
reflex, automatic;
informalknee-jerk
"an involuntary urge"
antonyms: deliberate

• (especially of muscles or nerves) concerned in bodily processes that are not under the control of the will.

• 2.
  done against someone's will; compulsory.
  "a policy of involuntary repatriation"
  synonyms: spontaneous, instinctive, unconscious, unintentional, uncontrollable;More

 

[4Macie]

in·vol·un·tar·y
inˈvälənˌterē/ spontaneous, instinctive, unconscious, unintentional, uncontrollable;More
reflex, automatic;
informalknee-jerk
"an involuntary urge"
antonyms: deliberate

• (especially of muscles or nerves) concerned in bodily processes that are not under the control of the will.

• 2.
  done against someone's will; compulsory.
  "a policy of involuntary repatriation"
  synonyms: spontaneous, instinctive, unconscious, unintentional, uncontrollable;More

I quite understand the term involuntary. As I was saying, usually in the criminal justice system, words like involuntary and voluntary apply to the intent of the person doing the act, not the want/desire for such action by the victim. As being a victim implies you didn't want whatever happened to you anyway. I've been informed that in this case it's just different. Still weird, considering that what he did was deviant sexual assault, not sure why they did involuntary sexual deviancy unless they chose that because they can't actually prove that he raped amber and this is what they can prove.

 

[pbls]

Still weird, considering that what he did was deviant sexual assault, not sure why they did involuntary sexual deviancy unless they chose that because they can't actually prove that he raped amber and this is what they can prove.

Because deviant sexual assault involves intercourse, which, as Amber and Nick's IM described, he didn't do.

 

[BlueArmedDevil]

From the legal wiki
Deviant sexual intercourse is, in some U.S. states, a legal term for "any act of sexual gratification involving the sex organs of one person and the mouth or anus of another, anus to mouth or involving invasion of the anus or vagina of one person by a foreign object manipulated by another person".[1]

Typically, the act itself is not a crime, but the term is used to describe forcible or otherwise involuntary acts that differ from the crime of rape, in the way that indecent assault might be used in other states and countries. In the United States, the term has replaced sodomy in the criminal codes of some states, including Texas[2] and Kentucky.[1]

 

[MrsFrizzle]

No there isn't, after bail is set by a judge it can be posted at any time. However the defense will inform the court that their defendant intends to post bail when the funds can be raised, the judge can then place restrictions upon the defendant (passport turned in, home confinement, who they can talk to ect....) when bail is made.

It's unlikely anyone in his family has 10% of his $150,000 bail as cash (or a larger percentage in home equity) to put up with a bondsman. Even if his aunt wanted to bail him out, my guess is that she doesn't have a lot of liquidity, even as an owner of rental property.

 

[KatsuKitty]

This is painful to even think about in detail, but Nick didn't need to have sexual intercourse to earn that charge.

"Deviate sexual intercourse" is a legal term that encompasses two specific acts, one of which Nick explicitly admitted to in the chat log. That's exactly why he is charged with that.

 

[BlueArmedDevil]

It's unlikely anyone in his family has 10% of his $150,000 bail as cash (or a larger percentage in home equity) to put up with a bondsman. Even if his aunt wanted to bail him out, my guess is that she doesn't have a lot of liquidity, even as an owner of rental property.

I think this is more of an issue of "desire to" then "have the means to".

 

[AnOminous]

Still weird, considering that what he did was deviant sexual assault, not sure why they did involuntary sexual deviancy unless they chose that because they can't actually prove that he raped amber and this is what they can prove.

It's a holdover from when "rape" was a very specific legal term derived from common law referring only to penetrative vaginal sex committed by a male against a female against the actual physical resistance of the female, with exceptions in the definition precluding the concept of "marital rape" and other old customs. Sometimes, there was even a virginity requirement for, e.g., statutory rape.

In any event, more recently, the law recognized that other forms of sexual assault should be proscribed as well, but these laws were passed at a time when the archaic distinction was still recognized at law.

I'm not sure if the specific phrase "involuntary deviate sexual intercourse" is unique to Pennsylvania, but it is certainly the only place I remember having seen it.

 

[MrsFrizzle]

I think this is more of an issue of "desire to" then "have the means to".

Probably, but even if they wanted to, I doubt they have the means.

Which makes me worry about whether A. will be able to get good help, even if her parents agree.

 

[AnOminous]

From the legal wiki

The term is also defined in 18 Pa. C.S.A. § 3101:

"Deviate sexual intercourse." Sexual intercourse per os or per anus between human beings and any form of sexual intercourse with an animal. The term also includes penetration, however slight, of the genitals or anus of another person with a foreign object for any purpose other than good faith medical, hygienic or law enforcement procedures.

"Sexual intercourse." In addition to its ordinary meaning, includes intercourse per os or per anus, with some penetration however slight; emission is not required.

 

[BlueArmedDevil]

I wouldn't be too surprised if family services hasn't already gotten involved since all this happened "In family", if mental health treatment is court required and the family lacks the means to supply usually Medicare or the state version of steps in. There are also nonprofs that offer victim care services.

 

[AnOminous]

I wouldn't be too surprised if family services hasn't already gotten involved since all this happened "In family", if mental health treatment is court required and the family lacks the means to supply usually Medicare or the state version of steps in. There are also nonprofs that offer victim care services.

They already have been involved and their involvement either precipitated or was precipitated by the police involvement.

I certainly hope they've taken an active role in making sure treatment options are made available, and/or enforced if the "mother" refuses. Apparently, due to some freakish variant of Christianity, the mother doesn't believe in psychiatric treatment and blocked it for Nick, with predictable results.

 

[pbls]

Why hasn't his mother been charged with anything yet?

 

[AnOminous]

Why hasn't his mother been charged with anything yet?

As a practical matter, it would almost have to be proven she either knew or was willfully blind as to Nick's activities and either failed to do anything or actively helped cover it up. Just being an all around awful human being isn't enough.

 

[LordCustos3]

View attachment 26518
Lancaster County Prison; where Nick is currently being held.

Yeah sure, the place looks corny from the front; like it needs a moat and is policed by Beefeaters with halberds, but that is just the front side.
From above it looks like this

And from the back it looks like this....

You can't see it all that well from this angle, but there is lots and lots of lovely, lovely concertina wire to discourage Sick Nick (or any of his new friends) from ever trying to climb out.

EDIT: Ah, here it is:

and here's the cozy little cottage for Sick Nick to slowly "paint brown" for the next 10-60 years.

and his lovely, lovely bunkmate, with whom Sick Nick can expound, at length, about his opinions on Pokeymans, pederasty and gettin' butts done.

In fact, Bunkie here will enlighten Sick Nick alllllll about gettin' butts done; probably with a very hands on demonstration.

 

[BlueArmedDevil]

Well Lock Up on MSNBC is doing county jails, maybe Dog Cop will bless us.

 

[HickoryDickory]

@LordCustos3 That room is too good for Nick. Maybe he was given a stripped down one due to the poop smearing... It wouldn't surprise me if he went totally Betty Broderick in there.

 

[Skeletor]

I appreciate the info our resident Kiwi legal scholars are dropping in this thread.

So Nick will end some where between 5(early plea to a single count of the lesser charge and some good luck on sentence , at the time of the offense he was 18 and suffering major metal illness) ...

Goddammit, people do more than five years for liquor store holdups. I'm going to lose my shit if he gets less than a decade in the pen.