General Discussion for Virtual Youtubers / Vtubers / Chuubas - it's okay to be a simp for 2D, just don't thirstpost.

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source: https://twitter.com/shirakamifubuki/status/1339494296819441671
This whole incident started in China.
Yep, you read that right.
https://imgur.com/PQRamyd
"I just learned from the comment section that a regional branch of our company has a collab stream with hololive."
https://imgur.com/3nedTjT
"
  1. China branch isn't aware of this. Each branch is responsible for their own region.
  2. However, everyone knows us as a whole brand, and being a Chinese company [1] we take it seriously. We hope to cancel the stream.
  3. Hololive f*ck ur mom."
TL note:
[1] It's actually a Taiwanese company, but of course Chinese will claim it to be a Chinese company.
https://i.imgur.com/XroKH15.png
"Of course, we're doing our best to interfere the stream."
https://jp.store.asus.com/store/asu...utm_medium=Refferal&utm_campaign=HoloLive2020
Asus x holo collab store is taken down.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLpj5NLVJRI&feature=youtu.be
Stream gone.
I wonder who will win, ASUS in Taiwan or ASUS in China. Can they get away with committing an actual crime (blatantly inciting spam attack against their main branch)? This is very weird, even for east asian politics standards.
 
The tldr is that China was a networking move that ended up not working out, which rules out Singapore and Thailand as targets for a forgein chuuba. The billibilli connections could have been great if not for a certain fatal incident.

So the process of Cover goes a little something like this. Keep in mind this is all speculation.
JP is the first branch, duh.
Then comes the 3-man IN gen 1, because of low upkeep costs.
Then they notice the underground chuuba market in CN and billi, so they decide to expand in that direction, burning cash to establish roots and an official fanbase. This is where the “Overseas market have not turned a profit.” thing likely comes from, because they had to officially partner with billibilli.

Seeing a huge community pop up in CN, and with overseas engagement trickling down from Coco, they decide to go all-in on the foreign market and begin EN and ID2 auditions. Difficulties due to Corona delays Gen5 debut, who get to know each other in the meantime.

Gen 5 debuts, Aloe’s situation explodes and they’re left to suffer the aftermath. Graduates August 31st. Is a sad day.

EN announced on Sept 8th, all debut on the 12th. Superchats enabled in a week, massive earnings, memberships, the whole shebang. Things are bright for the future.

September 26th. T-word incident. Coco and Haachama suspended for 3 weeks. And you probably know how the rest of the story goes.

Simple:

JP ->ID -> CN -> EN -> CN(ded)
I wonder now will they continues their plan of expansion outside of Japan. I know there's the audition for EN version of AZKI, but I'm thinking of the EN 2nd gen, now that Niji is eyeing for that sweet sweet dollar money
Today news on the ongoing ching being salty at anime girls. FBK, Botan, and Okayu was suppose to have an official sponsored collab with Republic of Gaming tonight, but was attacked by the RoG in China and have to cancelled it. Link to reddit because I'm lazy af.

I wonder who will win, ASUS in Taiwan or ASUS in China. Can they get away with committing an actual crime (blatantly inciting spam attack against their main branch)? This is very weird, even for east asian politics standards.
Holyfucking shit, and it's the official account that staged the raid!? What a fucking total loser the chinks are....Thats real unprofessional
In any other part of the world that is not China, that's your job bye-bye. What a fucking loser...
 
Interesting. Asus is a Taiwanese company, but maybe their Chinese branch brings in enough yuan that they're gonna get away with that little stunt. The political machinations of this young industry continue to fascinate me.

Came for the interesting technology. Got hooked by the dog slaying demons and the dragon calling me a mother fucker. Stayed for the political and corporate intrigue. What a show!
 
I think the Reddit post has been deleted, but Fubuki's stream is still up. I also tried to look at the bilibili post on the reddit post, but I think it has been deleted. Looks to me it was an action of a rogue marketing/PR employee, considering the wording of the bilibili post

Edit: I'm a retard, the reddit post that was deleted is the one about the collab announcement, the one talking about the cancelation and the mainland's ROG is still up. The original bilibili post is still deleted, I think
 
Wow, I can't believe you called it for Senzawa.
Senzawa was unexpected. Nyanners would probably have a chance but likely wouldn't join Hololive because she'd have to drop her Nyanners persona and Hololive isn't going to allow collabs with "haha weiner" Vshojo. LilyPichu would be a good fit but I get the feeling anyone from OfflineTV is immediately unhireable considering the constantly drama.

I also kinda feel like collabs with OfflineTV would be a no-no.
 
As if that's not the only reason anyone interacts with him I was gonna add mine but I don't follow him so I didn't see it.

Out of curiosity I did watch snippits of his interview with Pikamee just because I like her.

Only thing I can say is he does know what he's doing in terms of content creation but he is hard carried by the personality he is interviewing nearly all the time. The only reason people would watch something like that is because of the vtuber and not him. He has yet to make literally anything that is just him, and I'm sure if he did then some true colors would be revealed.
 
1601580809306.jpg
 
Indonesia, the fourth largest population in the world? No way, that can't be ri-

View attachment 1793801

I'll be a son of a bitch, it's bigger than Brazil. Why does it feel like we never hear about it? Now I'm curious and I'm probably going to be up all night falling down Wikipedia rabbit holes about this place, because I feel so ignorant about what should be a very consequential part of the world.
I'm not surprised honestly. Almost all the SEAsia countries fly under the radar most of the time. Nothing of importance usually happens around these parts.
 
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i just still cant believe that JP more cooperate with ID, despite its the 4th biggest country and literally who country, i dont think many willing to spend money on thing like this, even if there is (which ofcourse) the number not as big as they expect. many just enjoy free content and pirate it. or i assume when it come to spending money either on super chat or anything else, small number of whaler goes all out supporting their streamer.

Japan actually has quite the history with Indonesia, because we have been under their colony for the Imperial's last 2 years before the atomic bombs hit (that's how Indo gained independence, the Japanese pulled back and the Indos took their opportunity)

However, from the looks of things, Japan has better relations with Indonesia than Korea. You wanna know why? It's cause Japan sees us as a natural resource so they were quicker to implement war reparations with us. Out of all the Southeast Asian countries, they're closest with the Philippines and Indonesia, which is probably one reason as to why the weeb scene here is so big.

Edit: Is Hololive seriously the only company who managed to establish themselves in China and successfully pulled out? SURELY they're not the only one...right?
 
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Indonesia, the fourth largest population in the world? No way, that can't be ri-

View attachment 1793801

I'll be a son of a bitch, it's bigger than Brazil. Why does it feel like we never hear about it? Now I'm curious and I'm probably going to be up all night falling down Wikipedia rabbit holes about this place, because I feel so ignorant about what should be a very consequential part of the world.
The rule of the game in Asia is keeping your head low and avoid any big drama that may shake precarious political stability, within and without. Japan has been doing it since they lost, and China has been doing it until very recently, now realizing they can literally afford to pull some shit on their own.
 
From our Western sensibility, that both Holo and Niji have built and maintained a presence in Indonesia compared to what one would think would be a more profitable market like Korea or China feels really… random? I can only imagine that there's some sort of massive, money-spending weeb front there under the surface which has made it worth their while and their paths just don't intersect with western weebs that much. I hope we can get more backstory on that some way or another some day.
To understand Japanese industry's obsession with places like Indonesia requires some autism, so I will provide it.

In the modern globalized economy, there are broadly two types of national economies: export-led economies (production > domestic consumption) and import-led economies (consumption > domestic production). The factors that determine which type of economy you are are quite varied, but usually the primary determinants are age structure and national wealth. Let me explain these:

1) Age structure. An economy with more young people than old people tends to be consumption-driven. Young people need houses and food and childcare and entertainment and a whole litany of other things that they often cannot afford. They consume more than they produce in an industrial economy. Older people (middle-aged till retirement) have outsized human capital (productive capacity > consumption capacity) but little incentive to consume (since they're past childbearing age and often have most of the things they need already). An economy like Japan is outrageously old. It's probably one of the oldest countries in the world by median age. Domestic consumption has declined since the late 1980s. Indonesia is very young and still has a growing population (read: consumers for products potentially made by Japanese companies).

2) National wealth. Being young isn't enough though. A nation-state must also have some kind of wealth (or at least, the potential of it) to be viable. Indonesia has a bustling primary product sector (oil, agricultural products, etc) and lots of available labor. A country like Japan looks at a place like Indonesia and thinks, "They're not rich now, but if we start accruing Indonesian assets now, we can use those to acquire Indonesian resources in the future."

That Cover expanded to the English market around the same time it expanded to the Indonesian market and consequently let the Korean market wither on the vine makes perfect sense in this paradigm. The Anglophone world is relatively young (in a spectrum of median age, you have something like Southeast Asia>US/France/Australia/Scandinavia>UK>Eastern Europe>Germany/Korea>Japan). EN's markets are a little older on average, but still young enough to be primary consumers (see continued Japanese interest in the US auto market) and they also have a great deal of wealth. Indonesia is poorer but also younger, and so the potential of getting in now is still there (especially with how cheap Indonesian talent is comparatively). Korea, on the other hand, is an aged economy. It competes in the same consumer markets as Japan and already has a basically-saturated entertainment market with few consumers left to exploit. China is still young enough right now, but its closed capital account (read: no guaranteed access to Chinese assets to buy shit down the line) and its rapidly aging demography means there was probably never a real future for Hololive CN and so cutting it was an easy choice.

Caveat 1: Not all countries age at the same rate. The aformentioned anglophone world is aging relatively slowly compared to most of its peers. The US has a birth rate that isn't replacement, but still high enough to gradually taper the economy into middle-age rather than the rapid changes that places like Japan experienced (the US also has a culture of gradual onset adulthood that means that many Americans remain solid consumers well into their 40s). China, for example, went from being younger than the US to being older than the US in just 30 years despite starting almost a century later than everyone else. For companies that sell consumer products, the US is the equivalent of a blue chip stock while Indonesia is a risky start-up company.

Caveat 2: Some national economies never properly globalize and so don't adhere to these principles. India is young and has decent national wealth, but political policies have severed its ties with the global economy (internal consumption = internal production, if there's underproduction, there's underconsumption).
 
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To understand Japanese industry's obsession with places like Indonesia requires some autism, so I will provide it.

In the modern globalized economy, there are broadly two types of national economies: export-led economies (production > domestic consumption) and import-led economies (consumption > domestic production). The factors that determine which type of economy you are are quite varied, but usually the primary determinants are age structure and national wealth. Let me explain these:

1) Age structure. An economy with more young people than old people tends to be consumption-driven. Young people need houses and food and childcare and entertainment and a whole litany of other things that they often cannot afford. They consume more than they produce in an industrial economy. Older people (middle-aged till retirement) have outsized human capital (productive capacity > consumption capacity) but little incentive to consume (since they're past childbearing age and often have most of the things they need already). An economy like Japan is outrageously old. It's probably one of the oldest countries in the world by median age. Domestic consumption has declined since the late 1980s. Indonesia is very young and still has a growing population (read: consumers for products potentially made by Japanese companies).

2) National wealth. Being young isn't enough though. A nation-state must also have some kind of wealth (or at least, the potential of it) to be viable. Indonesia has a bustling primary product sector (oil, agricultural products, etc) and lots of available labor. A country like Japan looks at a place like Indonesia and thinks, "They're not rich now, but if we start accruing Indonesian assets now, we can use those to acquire Indonesian resources in the future."

That Cover expanded to the English market around the same time it expanded to the Indonesian market and consequently let the Korean market wither on the vine makes perfect sense in this paradigm. The Anglophone world is relatively young (in a spectrum of median age, you have something like Southeast Asia>US/France/Australia/Scandinavia>UK>Eastern Europe>Germany/Korea>Japan). EN's markets are a little older on average, but still young enough to be primary consumers (see continued Japanese interest in the US auto market) and they also have a great deal of wealth. Indonesia is poorer but also younger, and so the potential of getting in now is still there (especially with how cheap Indonesian talent is comparatively). Korea, on the other hand, is an aged economy. It competes in the same consumer markets as Japan and already has a basically-saturated entertainment market with few consumers left to exploit. China is still young enough right now, but its closed capital account (read: no guaranteed access to Chinese assets to buy shit down the line) and its rapidly aging demography means there was probably never a real future for Hololive CN and so cutting it was an easy choice.

Caveat 1: Not all countries age at the same rate. The aformentioned anglophone world is aging relatively slowly compared to most of its peers. The US has a birth rate that isn't replacement, but still high enough to gradually taper the economy into middle-age rather than the rapid changes that places like Japan experienced (the US also has a culture of gradual onset adulthood that means that many Americans remain solid consumers well into their 40s). China, for example, went from being younger than the US to being older than the US in just 30 years despite starting almost a century later than everyone else. For companies that sell consumer products, the US is the equivalent of a blue chip stock while Indonesia is a risky start-up company.

Caveat 2: Some national economies never properly globalize and so don't adhere to these principles. India is young and has decent national wealth, but political policies have severed its ties with the global economy (internal consumption = internal production, if there's underproduction, there's underconsumption).
Yeah yeah all that economics is cool and all but lets move onto what we really are all here to talk about.

Big sweaty anime tiddys.
 
To understand Japanese industry's obsession with places like Indonesia requires some autism, so I will provide it.

In the modern globalized economy, there are broadly two types of national economies: export-led economies (production > domestic consumption) and import-led economies (consumption > domestic production). The factors that determine which type of economy you are are quite varied, but usually the primary determinants are age structure and national wealth. Let me explain these:

1) Age structure. An economy with more young people than old people tends to be consumption-driven. Young people need houses and food and childcare and entertainment and a whole litany of other things that they often cannot afford. They consume more than they produce in an industrial economy. Older people (middle-aged till retirement) have outsized human capital (productive capacity > consumption capacity) but little incentive to consume (since they're past childbearing age and often have most of the things they need already). An economy like Japan is outrageously old. It's probably one of the oldest countries in the world by median age. Domestic consumption has declined since the late 1980s. Indonesia is very young and still has a growing population (read: consumers for products potentially made by Japanese companies).

2) National wealth. Being young isn't enough though. A nation-state must also have some kind of wealth (or at least, the potential of it) to be viable. Indonesia has a bustling primary product sector (oil, agricultural products, etc) and lots of available labor. A country like Japan looks at a place like Indonesia and thinks, "They're not rich now, but if we start accruing Indonesian assets now, we can use those to acquire Indonesian resources in the future."

That Cover expanded to the English market around the same time it expanded to the Indonesian market and consequently let the Korean market wither on the vine makes perfect sense in this paradigm. The Anglophone world is relatively young (in a spectrum of median age, you have something like Southeast Asia>US/France/Australia/Scandinavia>UK>Eastern Europe>Germany/Korea>Japan). EN's markets are a little older on average, but still young enough to be primary consumers (see continued Japanese interest in the US auto market) and they also have a great deal of wealth. Indonesia is poorer but also younger, and so the potential of getting in now is still there (especially with how cheap Indonesian talent is comparatively). Korea, on the other hand, is an aged economy. It competes in the same consumer markets as Japan and already has a basically-saturated entertainment market with few consumers left to exploit. China is still young enough right now, but its closed capital account (read: no guaranteed access to Chinese assets to buy shit down the line) and its rapidly aging demography means there was probably never a real future for Hololive CN and so cutting it was an easy choice.

Caveat 1: Not all countries age at the same rate. The aformentioned anglophone world is aging relatively slowly compared to most of its peers. The US has a birth rate that isn't replacement, but still high enough to gradually taper the economy into middle-age rather than the rapid changes that places like Japan experienced (the US also has a culture of gradual onset adulthood that means that many Americans remain solid consumers well into their 40s). China, for example, went from being younger than the US to being older than the US in just 30 years despite starting almost a century later than everyone else. For companies that sell consumer products, the US is the equivalent of a blue chip stock while Indonesia is a risky start-up company.

Caveat 2: Some national economies never properly globalize and so don't adhere to these principles. India is young and has decent national wealth, but political policies have severed its ties with the global economy (internal consumption = internal production, if there's underproduction, there's underconsumption).
Man...and to think that people said farm is only populated with toxic doxxers and evil people and yet here I am getting free economic lecture. I might also want to add that Indonesia is experiencing a population surplus of productive age, which is why the consumption rate is going through the roof. Also the same reason why many countries are investing on African countries, aside from their abundant resources

Now, back to anime tiddies and Vchuubas, Ollie finally got her superchat activated and is streaming for celebration

Also, I just read from the reddit post about the ROG collab, turns out there's a sitewide bug that for some reason decrease the live viewer count even though it's not. Something to do with the waiting room or something. That's why all the holo folks are experiencing drops
 
The rule of the game in Asia is keeping your head low and avoid any big drama that may shake precarious political stability, within and without. Japan has been doing it since they lost, and China has been doing it until very recently, now realizing they can literally afford to pull some shit on their own.
But there's also Singapore, the Koreas, the Philippines, Vietnam. I feel like I've learned more about all of these places in school and hear more about them today than Indonesia, which has more population than all of them combined.

(Economics autism)
That makes a lot of sense. Thanks for sharing that - it must have taken you a while to type up.

Man...and to think that people said farm is only populated with toxic doxxers and evil people and yet here I am getting free economic lecture.
I know, right? And I wasn't kidding about rabbit-holing about your country tonight. Islam, Dutch colonization, Japanese occupation, independence, democracy swiftly collapsing into authoritarianism, skirmishes with Malaysia, eventual economic and political liberalization. Over seventeen thousand islands with many different ethnicities and religious traditions, all united in a republic and not killing each other for the most part. I'm smarter today than I was yesterday about the world because I logged in to a racist troll forum.

Anyway, yes, anime tiddies and all that.
 
But there's also Singapore, the Koreas, the Philippines, Vietnam. I feel like I've learned more about all of these places in school and hear more about them today than Indonesia, which has more population than all of them combined.
Singapore is a major financial hub and former British colony. It was always going to be a big deal in the western business world. Korea and Vietnam had major conflicts involving the superpowers during the Cold War. The Philippines was a US colony and has very strong ties to the US even today.

Indonesia's history is... complicated. Until European colonization in the 1500s, it was basically a series of Vedic kingdoms before unifying under the Majapahit in the 1200s. And even after European colonization, it was a Dutch colony, which renders it being a footnote of a footnote in most classes on post-1500s world history. It's a very important place historically (being a locus of the spice trade before the Age of Exploration), but the Anglosphere didn't really directly engage with Indonesia until WW2 when Japan tried to scoop it up. And then after WW2, it was incontrovertibly in the US's sphere of influence due to being an island and wasn't subject to the kind of ground wars you see with the other proxy wars of the Cold War-era.

You'll probably hear more about it in the coming years since it's developing pretty rapidly but it's not really surprising to not know much about it unless you grew up in the Netherlands or something.
 
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