Argue with Americans about how it's a sin against the God of Capital to stop a corpo from raping you

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The amount of people that believe that the server code of multiplayer games which in the vast majority of cases are running on elastic architecture in cloud hosted servers that rely heavily on proprietary libraries to interact with, can just somehow make it so that code can be restructured to make a server package which can be ran by anyone like it’s an on and off switch is insane.
Games built on licensed software would literally have to be rewritten in this sunset model which could take up to years.
 
Don't piss on me and tell me it's raining.
:lit: never heard this one
Crytek was never massive and Crytek is doing just fine they make their money selling software not video games but Hunt was really successful anyhow.
That's the point, they cannot get big, the EU hates big companies. That's the main difference between you and us. US antitrust law is designed to prevent cartels, EU competition law is designed to prevent cartels and monopolies, unless they are state monopoly. It's dumb that's how it has always been around here. Crytek rent out CryEngine tech and do niche projects like Hunt, which is fine, but they will never operate on the same level as Epic or Valve
THQ came back from the dead.
THQ came back from the dead through Embracer buying up distressed IP and milking back catalogs. That’s not a creative or healthy company anymore.
Paradox is as strong as always despite feuding CEOs.
Paradox is a good studio but they’re a niche mid-size publisher. They’re not computing with Rockstar or Epic
Ubisoft has close down multiple studios in Canada in America and the only studio making money for them Is Blue Byte in Germany.
Don't piss on me and tell me it's raining cause I ain't got an umbrella! :gunt: Ubisoft has reduced staff in Canada because they overexpanded and Canada itself is now drifting toward more EU-style socialist policies thanks to Trudeau and the rest of the socialist / Labour politicians. Quebec (where Montreal is, which makes videa games) literally introduced new labor quotas, new taxes, and bunch of DEI / ESG nonsense. That’s why Ubisoft and EA have paused hiring in Canada recently.
The European Gaming market is healthier than the US gaming market.
The entire EU gaming market (Paradox + CD Project + Ubisoft EU branches) combined can’t match the revenue of a single big US or Canadian publisher. The biggest games: Fortnite, GTA, Call of Duty, League of Legends, Minecraft, all come from the US, not the EU. Dude if you love it so much here and you think our system (EU) works so much better, let's trade passports. I don't have criminal records and I'll take yours even if you have a felony (not if you're on the sexual offender list though)
EU has not been plagued by a decade of ESG, DEI and other corporate top down pushes to politicize games in a veign attempt to get capital gains.
LOL you don't know what you're talking about. Nigger, the EU invented that shit. The Commission, the same Commission that you send the petition to, imposes diversity, inclusion and sustainability conditions in all its creative grants.

Also Crusader King III:
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If you tell me one more time blatant bullshit about a subject I am well familiar with I will just call you names and leave it at that.
I don't care?
Veilguard and Concord were US made garbage and just the tip of the iceberg of shit nobody plays while Paradox is making DLC for decades old games while making new games in the same genre.
In fact most EU fuck ups were published by US or other foreign companies.
You can keep cherry picking like this all day. The point is when you are free to innovate, you fail sometimes. The US and Canada dominate global gaming by every relevant metric. Paradox, literally survives by milking a few niche titles with DLC because the EU market doesn’t have the capital or risk appetite to launch new big games. And when they do, they always need US publishers or cash.
I do you stupid fucking nigger. I bought it. The store, the dev, the payment processor, the bank, the tax man. All agree I PURCHASED a PRODUCT. Which means I own it and can use it how and when ever I please. The publisher/developer don't have a right to tell me how I use something I own nor can they retroactively decide I don't own something. I didn't purchase a subscription, we're not talking about WoW.
Ok what game are you talking about then? My view on this is very clear and is not libertarian, it's just common sense

- if you paid for a game upfront, say 70 dollars (or 60 euros) especially if it can be played offline, and the game company make it unplayable, you should be and are entitled to a refund. If Nintendo put Mario Sunshine on the Switch e-shop, you buy it and they later remove it from your console because they want to migrate you to the Switch 2 (knowing Nintendo, a real possibility) then fuck them, you get your money back.

- if you're palying WoW (sorry that's just to illustrate my point), you mostly pay a subscription fee every month which in turn cover the operating expenses of keeping the game online for the multiplayer experience, you're not buying permanent access to the servers. It sucks but if the player base decreases and they can't or don't want to keep the servers up, you have to rely on goodwill if you want to get private server. You can't force them to keep the gate open. It was always in the terms. It's a subscription model, and you may hate it but then don't play WoW

- if you play a free-to-play battle royal style game, then you even have less of a claim to impose permanent connectivity. PUBG has been online since 2018, if they take it offline tomorrow, that's it. I never paid for it, it was free to play when I installed it. Just because I bought a hat in the game (I didn't cause I'm not a retard) I don't have a right to take over the servers.

If you disagree with this then there is no talking to you
Bro you're gonna do this everytime "if you disagree with me I will insult you and leave this Internet Forum forever" go ahead. I don't care.
you simply suck too much corporate dick to have a functional brain.
Stop talking about dicks
I will explain this as dumbly as possible so you can get it through your thick skull.
Thank you.
Most games for the past decade require an internet connection to an authenticator of sorts to run. Regardless of being multiplayer or singleplayer. Those authenticators run on servers. Those servers can be shut off. When they are shut off the game you BOUGHT doesn't work anymore. Many games have become no longer available to the people who BOUGHT them and there is no remedy or punishment for this do to how laws currently stand. The goal of SKG is to change those laws to make it so that this scenario would be illegal and you could get a remedy for it. Ideally the ability to circumvent or run on your own the authenticator. The games don't need the authenticator to function as some games have been hacked to circumvent it. It's just a tool by the merchant to destroy the product you bought.
That's covered in my three points above. You can't have the same approach for every game. I'm not a libertarian for pointing this out.
All your stupid chart shows is that the US has a much larger stock market than anywhere else. How many of those companies are fully American?
Almost none of them. In fact you will have companies that have their HQ and production entirely outside of the US they just use the US stock market to generate more revenue. Which makes perfect sense because the US is the biggest import market on the planet and the EU combined is still less than them.
This is a cope. Those are multinational companies, of course they have activities outside the US.... The point is these are AMERICAN COMPANIES made in the US, by Americans, because low regulation, low taxes and spirit of entrepreneurship. Maybe you don't feel at home. As I said, happy to switch places. The fact that you are a big import has nothing to do with anything. This is just nigger babble honestly. You should just move to Europe
And I don't need to follow your retarded line of reasoning about regulation. When you get down to brass tacks this doesn't fucking matter nigger.
If you say this enough time, it becomes true
The EU is giving me a tool to force companies to act right and I will use it.
And as I European I tell you to go f yourself. I don't want more regulation.
It's the best place in the world for the littlest guy, the consumer.
- I am a coonsumer I demand to barf on goy slope until I die. What about the entrepreneur? Sure, between the entrepreneur and the coonsoomer I pick the entrepreneur. That's just my view though, you don't have to chimp out at me because you see things differently.
I'm a communist I just parrot what Karl Marx said and I just conveniently attack counter revolutionaries
You heard it folks! Release the hounds, Smithers!!!



 
Games built on licensed software would literally have to be rewritten in this sunset model which could take up to years.
Okay. So they can get to work instead of selling me a product that will be forcibly obsolete whenever they decide it's not making them enough money.

Or maybe, just maybe, they can actually make quality games that are built to last.
 
oh well i had no messages of mine moved, might as well add it then.
The amount of people that believe that the server code of multiplayer games which in the vast majority of cases are running on elastic architecture in cloud hosted servers that rely heavily on proprietary libraries to interact with, can just somehow make it so that code can be restructured to make a server package which can be ran by anyone like it’s an on and off switch is insane.
if a bunch of willing autists can reverse client packages and emulate the false packets to get the functions working, something something is absolutely wrong and can be changed within it and only a mongoloid corpo cocksucker would ignore such thing.

with the passing of SKG bill allah willing devs will have to cook their own ways to get rid of said layered faggotry in order to publish their games on EU and that is a good thing, especially for the people that won't have to deal with this gay shit and will enjoy playing their games after they reach their EOL phase, that is people like me.
Okay. So they can get to work instead of selling me a product that will be forcibly obsolete whenever they decide it's not making them enough money.
not the consumer's problem.
 
And I never once had to interact with such a thing because all EU initiatives outside of regulations require the local government to opt in. Again you don't seem to know much about the EU. You clearly have some sort of ideological view of it and will not allow reality to shatter it.
That is just plain wrong. literal pit-bull opinion
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two CASES nigger, Costa v Enel and Van gend en Loos

They establish the principles of SUPREMACY of EU law over national law. And sure you could argue that "directives" of the EU need to be implemented by the national parliament but there is no room to not implement them.

You don't understand the basic of the EU which is that local government DO NOT opt in. Why do you think we have so many anti-EU politicians? You think they are just against immigration.

We lost our national sovereignty. When the British realized their mighty Parliament couldn't do shit anymore they started packing.
 
Games built on licensed software would literally have to be rewritten in this sunset model which could take up to years
The initiative is not asking for retroactive enforcement you stupid retard. 100% of skg detractors are either illiterate gay nigger faggots or habitually lying narcissistic psychopaths with an agenda
 
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EU has not been plagued by a decade of ESG, DEI and other corporate top down pushes to politicize games in a veign attempt to get capital gains. If you tell me one more time blatant bullshit about a subject I am well familiar with I will just call you names and leave it at that.
Veilguard and Concord were US made garbage and just the tip of the iceberg of shit nobody plays while Paradox
Paradox has literally removed white people from Stellaris because there are no wypipo in the future.
You dumb nigger
 
Which is it you retarded nigger fag, you don't like it or you don't care?
i don't like it but at the end of the day, it's not affecting me personally. I don't like it because stickers are dumb. What is the point of going through every single post a person make and clicking the little sticker button every time? Does it feel good? I log into the site or refresh a page and I have 20 notifications and it's one guy going through all my posts and clicking the button. It's baffling. I'm not upset. I guess it's like downvotes on Reddit. If it makes you feel good, go for it but I don't respect you for it, you retarded sticker cuck
 
Okay. So they can get to work instead of selling me a product that will be forcibly obsolete whenever they decide it's not making them enough money.
Reconstructing the code to make server binary to be launched on single servers takes dev time, dev time takes money, companies want to make profit so they're going to make you pay for those costs. Enjoy paying for 100 dollar games.
The initiative is not asking for retroactive enforcement you stupid retard. 100% of skg detractors are either illiterate gay nigger faggots or habitually lying narcissistic psychopaths with an agenda
It's asking that devs make their online games functionable or be able to be functionable after sunsetting, that would mean a lot of multiplayer games which use advanced elastic architecture eg games developed by riot games would have to be adapted to be usable on home PCs and single instance servers. It's near impossible to do that without a total rewrite which is unfeasible.
 
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It's asking that devs make their online games functionable or be able to be functionable after sunsetting, that would mean a lot of multiplayer games which use advanced elastic architecture ie games developed by riot games would have to be adapted to be usable on home PCs and single instance servers. It's near impossible to do that without a total rewrite which is unfeasible.
if you don't legally threaten the people that are making a emulator of your online game? yeah, sure you can say that shit.
SKG also asks for corpos to not sue people making a server emulator of their game once it sunsets, just leave them be because they will show up.
 
but they will never operate on the same level as Epic or Valve
>Mentions companies that have made like one game a decade and live off a store and other residuals
Nigger do you know what you are saying?
That’s why Ubisoft and EA have paused hiring in Canada recently.
You have 0 clue about what you are talking about.
It's so bad it's embarrassing. Even a troll would do better.
THQ came back from the dead through Embracer buying up distressed IP and milking back catalogs. That’s not a creative or healthy company anymore.
That's the same THQ as before.
Commission that you send the petition to, imposes diversity, inclusion and sustainability conditions in all its creative grants.
Real entrepreneurs don't suck the government's tit and Paradox is gay because Paradox devs are gay. They didn't suck tranny dick for an injection of ESG cash, they did it out of passion and for free.
The entire EU gaming market (Paradox + CD Project + Ubisoft EU branches) combined can’t match the revenue of a single big US or Canadian publisher. The biggest games: Fortnite, GTA, Call of Duty, League of Legends, Minecraft, all come from the US, not the EU. Dude if you love it so much here and you think our system (EU) works so much better, let's trade passports. I don't have criminal records and I'll take yours even if you have a felony (not if you're on the sexual offender list though)
The EU gaming market in 2021 had a revenue of ~19 billion dollars and the US gaming market had a revenue of ~37 billion dollars. And much of that is easily explained by the US being a bigger market and also 2 console manufacturers as well as Steam being part of the US rather than the EU market.
The EU can easily compete and it has done so for 50 years.
then fuck them, you get your money back.
Sure that would be better, but even better would be they can't stop me from using my product. I'd rather they keep the money and I keep the game.
The point is these are AMERICAN COMPANIES made in the US, by American
No American would describe Alphabet or Microsoft in their current state as American.
You should just move to Europe
I live here.
What about the entrepreneur? Sure, between the entrepreneur and the coonsoomer I pick the entrepreneur.
A born and bred bootlicker. I pick the consumer because everyone is a fucking consumer even the entrepreneur is a consumer of labor, capital and prime materials. Everybody benefits from good consumer laws. Only the few benefit from a lack of them.
And as I European I tell you to go f yourself. I don't want more regulation.
And I don't care.
 
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I said that in the Jason Hall thread and was instantly banned.
Saw this and immediately knew the rest could be disregarded as: "I am mad I got banned for shitting up a thread. Here's way too many words. Please read them"
 
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>I'm not a libertarian and I'm fucking tired of retards calling me one because I disagree with creating more regulation in an already over-regulated environment that is stale! Which is where I happen to live! I never said the Europeans were stupid, they have the ideas, and the desire to create. The Americans are not better than us, they just have a better environment that support the inherent creating aspiration of our people. Helldivers 2 exists (made by Arrowhead in Sweden) but it's just one success story. Look at the big picture: Ubisoft is headquartered in France but most of its actual development happens in Montreal, Toronto, and other places outside the EU because EU labor rules and taxes make AAA budgets unworkable. Same with CD Projekt in Poland — they’re an outlier that got huge with Witcher 3 but they bleed talent to the UK, Canada, and the US all the time because the market is more attractive there. Meanwhile, massive EU legacy studios like Crytek or Lionhead either downsized, relocated, or died off because the region’s cost structures and bureaucracy choke them.
You don't understand this, because either you don't live here in Europe or you live here but just sit on your ass all day and never tried to start a business. The red tape and rules here are impossible to navigate and without a legal team to back you up you are going to get fucked over from the very start. The EU’s hyper-regulated labor environment protects some workers but it doesn’t create value. It pushes highly mobile talent to freer markets where they keep more of what they earn. That’s why you see constant brain drain in software, tech, and gaming. The EU’s foreign investment policies are mostly about begging foreign tech companies to open local offices so they can tax them more

You're not a libertarian, you're just fucking wrong about why businesses fail here. You blame EU over-regulation but praise America's "better environment," then use Ubisoft Montreal as your prime example. You know why they're in Montreal? Because Quebec gave them massive tax credits—over a billion dollars. That's not a free market, that's government subsidy, the very thing you pretend to hate.
You talk about a "brain drain" from CD Projekt, but talent moving around is just the global games industry. It's not a one-way street out of the EU. And your EU legacy studio examples are a joke. Crytek's problems came from its own financial mismanagement and unsustainable spending, not EU rules. And Lionhead? Microsoft, an American company, killed Lionhead after forcing them into a failed "games-as-a-service" project. They literally admitted it was a "mistake" on their part.
You bitch about red tape, but you're blind to the EU literally throwing money at developers. The EU has programs like Creative Europe and MediaInvest, pouring millions into game dev startups and studios. Maybe if you stopped whining about "retards" and actually looked at the big picture, you'd see the problem isn't just "EU bad." It’s corporate fuck-ups, global competition, and foreign governments paying to lure studios away.

>You don’t understand how contract law or basic market accountability works. There is already a remedy for scams and broken contracts — it’s called contract law, existing consumer protection law, and the courts. If a company sells you a product that doesn’t do what they promised, you can sue them for breach of contract, if you bought a video game and they deactivate it remotely, then claim a refund. You can already do those things. You don't have a right to continue playing a game on a server that's shutting down. That the difference between sale and subscription. The ToS are written to make clear that when you were playing WoW online you were buying access, not perpetual ownership of a service the company is forced to maintain at a loss forever. It's not my fault you don't understand this. The rules don't change for you because you have an emotional attachment to the product you use! This logic doesn't even apply to free to play games and everybody is just completely ignoring this aspect.

Siemens is one of the few major ‘success stories’ people in Europe point to but Siemens is not the same as a fresh, from-scratch creative company like the ones that actually matter in a modern economy like the US. Siemens is an old, industrial-era giant that survives because it’s entrenched in infrastructure, government contracts, and highly protected sectors. It demonstrate exactly what I'm saying. Europe is not a place where you can launch the next Apple, Google, or Nvidia.

This chart shows you exactly what’s happening, I shared it because I assumed people would actually look at it and draw their own conclusion but you donb't do that. It shows you something you don't want to see, so you brush it off and go "muh Siemens"
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Here is what's happening, the US, with far less regulation, has produced a massive group of new high-tech companies worth trillions — Apple, Google, Amazon, Tesla, Nvidia, Microsoft, all under 50 years old. Meanwhile, Europe’s side is a tiny cluster of bubbles. This is the result of the EU’s obsession with top-down industrial era control, labor law and workers micromanagement, high taxation, and bureaucracy.

Siemens is a dinosaur. It’s a good example of how Europe can preserve legacy engineering giants built under very different conditions, but it shows that Europe fails at creating new companies. So your argument that big companies bad, doesn't really sound true, nigger when you suck the cock of old industrial giants. It sounds a lot like your opinion just follows whatever you want to get that day. Where are Europe’s tech giants? Where are Europe’s semiconductor companies? Where is Europe’s equivalent to SpaceX, or even Netflix? Response, not on this chart and not anywhere. They don’t exist. So I get it that the SKG petition is so important to you but don't fucking tell me how it works here. When entrepreneurs try in Europe, they get buried in labor rules, tax compliance, and red tape before they can ever scale up. So they leave just Europe’s best game devs and startups. All of my friends who were devs, moved to Canada or the US.

Europe is not a place for the little guy and I'm not a libertarian for pointing these things out. Creating more rules is not good for us. Especially when you haven't even thought how these rules are going to apply. You just poked the Commission and now they are going to do what they always do. Fuck us. Have a happy 4th of July
You talk about contract law like you've got a JD from watching daytime TV. "Just sue them"? You think a regular person can take on a multi-billion dollar corporation's legal team over a $60 game? The whole point of the "Stop Killing Games" petition is that the Terms of Service are bullshit one-sided contracts designed to fuck you, and the system is rigged. It's not about "emotional attachment," it's about not getting robbed.
Then you pull out that meme chart. You ask, "Where is Europe’s equivalent to Nvidia?"
Where is Europe's semiconductor company? It's called ASML. It's a Dutch company that every single high-tech dick you have on your little US chart—Apple, Nvidia, Intel, all of them—depends on for their survival. They have a global monopoly on the machines that make advanced chips. The US tech industry literally cannot function without this single EU company.
So before you cry about Siemens being an "old industrial giant," maybe recognize that Europe built the one company that holds the keys to the entire modern economy. You talk about your developer friends leaving for Canada. Good for them. Maybe they got lured by the same government subsidies that built Ubisoft Montreal, which you praise as a free-market success.
You're not a libertarian. You're a whiny, short-sighted cliché who sees a chart, ignores the facts that don't fit your narrative, and blames "EU red tape" for everything, including your own friends leaving. You don't know how things work here because you're too busy fellating a simplistic vision of America that doesn't even exist. Happy 4th of July, cuck, Americans hate you and so do we.
 
I can still play Wing Commander games no problem. If I went to CitizenCon and told Chris Roberts that I still play Wing Commander games and love them, do you think he'd he annoyed that I'm talking about and playing his old games? Or would he be flattered?

The only reason for studios to not leave their games in a playable state is if they hate their consumers or seriously consider their games a subscription service. If it's the latter, then charge a subscription fee and don't act like you are selling the consumer a complete and standalone product. However, many gamers like me know it's the former. We have all the evidence proving that many AAA developers hate their customers. If it takes a raging autist in need of a haircut to force game developers to stop treating consumers like shit, then I'm all for it.
 
Reconstructing the code to make server binary to be launched on single servers takes dev time, dev time takes money, companies want to make profit so they're going to make you pay for those costs. Enjoy paying for 100 dollar games.

It's asking that devs make their online games functionable or be able to be functionable after sunsetting, that would mean a lot of multiplayer games which use advanced elastic architecture eg games developed by riot games would have to be adapted to be usable on home PCs and single instance servers. It's near impossible to do that without a total rewrite which is unfeasible.
>TLDR - "it's possible but we don't want to decrease profit margins, so fuck you"

Less words, nigger. Wanna price yourself out of existence? GOOD! Fucking do it. We've been waiting on a market correction last 15 years. Do it! You better know trades, chuddie. : D

...or discover the art of being a gay whore but since you're a corpo dick sucker, it shouldn't take long for you
 
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This completely ignores what the initiative is targeting in the first place. We are explicitly targeting this practice because it is an attempt by the industry to change property into a service while still reaping the benefits of both types of contractual agreement. You consistently describe what is a service when a Game is a product and as such falls under the laws of products and property. The exception to this would be for example WoW or FF14 which both clearly state there is a limited access period in exchange for a service fee. This is more targeting shit like Denuvo that forces your OFFLINE game to have a 100% always online connection just to validate the DRM that already is violating your rights.
That makes slighty more sense but I don't think we fundamentally disagree. Where we may not agree is on the remedy and the type of games that this initiative targets.

- If you play an offline game that doesn't require servers for multiplayer and you paid for it, upfront, that game is your propert-ah sir and if the company remotely de-activate the game, you are entitled to a refund (the remedy point). If it was a physical copy of the game, then you'd be entitled to keep it. However, because it's a digital copy, you have to take into account situations where, for example, the whole platform would go down so I think a refund might be more appropriate.

- For games like WoW as you say yourself, it's a subscription model from the start so it seems we agree on this. The monthly fee is required to keep the servers up on the understanding that if the servers go down for whatever reason, the game won't be available to play anymore. If the company want to let people play the game on private servers after a decision is made to stop supporting the game, great, but not something you can force.

- For online F2P games (most battle royal games) you have zero remedy if the servers go down. If you want to force Epic or Krafton to keep their game online or keep it playable when they want to shut it down, they'll never touch that shit again. The fact that you have the availability to buy cosmetics items in the shop inside the game, does not give you a right to take over servers or does not create an obligation for the company to keep the game in a playable state.

Or if you would prefer an older example look at Securom for the Riddick games. DRM has been a consistent problem for games preservation even if you legitimately purchased the game. We don't need to fuck with metaphors or other faggotry here as well there are examples of the industry acting in a manner consistent with what SKG is about. Deadpool for example had a game it was delisted from steam due to license expiry (many such cases) but if you purchased it you can still download and play it from steam. SKG just seeks to make this standard.
Yeah that makes sense for these types of games. But it's a question of making it possible to download a local copy of your always offline single player game. If you paid 70 dollars to play deadpool, a game with no multiplayer element and it's removed from Steam meaning you can't play it at all then it's normal contract law remedy in the US or Europe that you get a refund. That's not controversial but not what the petition is seeking. The petition it's much broader in its range, it covers free to play online games for example, and you can't blame me for saying that this not something that you should invite the Commission to regulate. If the petition said something like “a contract term stating that a buyer of an offline single-player game, which does not incorporate multiplayer elements, cannot claim a refund in accordance with the terms of the platform on which the game is hosted, if the game becomes inaccessible due to DRM or deactivation should be deemed unfair.”, I would have less of an issue with it. It's a shame that DRM is used as an excuse to remotely deactivate offline single player games and that should be avoided. Maybe the petition should have made this clearer. What I have seen here is a number of people claiming they were going to get a right to take over servers after a (multiplayer) game is shut down.
 
I live here.
You're a eurocuck!!! get out. I thought you were a mutt. Nothing you say can be taken seriously. You didn't even know EU law has primacy over national law. Everything you say is a cope and you talking about dicks all of the time makes sense, you're probably a Swede. The worst kind of eurocuck. Go get your dress and your programmer socks on you snow worm. Your country is irrelevant and full of Somalians
The EU gaming market in 2021 had a revenue of
Cope
Real entrepreneurs don't
Cope
No American would
Coping and swedish lol

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this is you
 
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