Culture College student kicked out of class for telling professor there are only two genders

https://archive.fo/1y5DK

A religious studies major was barred from Christianity class at Indiana University of Pennsylvania for saying during class that there are only two genders.

Lake Ingle, a senior at the university, said he was silenced and punished by IUP Professor Alison Downie for questioning her during a Feb. 28 “Christianity 481: Self, Sin, and Salvation” lecture.

After showing a 15-minute TED Talk by transgender ex-pastor Paula Stone Williams discussing the “reality” of “mansplaining,” “sexism from men,” and “male privilege,” the professor asked the women in the class to share their thoughts. When no women in the class said anything, Ingle spoke up, challenging the professor on biology and the gender wage gap.

He told the class that the official view of biologists is that there are only two genders.

The feminist professor booted him from class and asked him not to come back. She referred him to the public university’s Academic Integrity Board (AIB). Ingle needs to complete the class to graduate at the end of the semester.

“You are barred from attending this class in accordance with the Classroom Disruption policy,” IUP Provost Timothy Moerland told Ingle in a March 2 letter.

Ingle said what the professor did was unconstitutional.

“My professor is violating my First Amendment rights because of the fact that my views and ideology is different from hers,” Ingle told Fox News. “So she took it on herself to silence and embarrass me – bully me – for speaking up in class.”

Downie accused the conservative libertarian student of “disrespectful objection,” “refusal to stop talking out of turn,” “angry outbursts in response to being required to listen to a trans speaker discuss the reality of white male privilege and sexism,” and “disrespectful references to the validity of trans identity and experience.”

Ingle doesn’t see this as a transgender, women’s rights, or wage issue, but rather as free speech and an example of the constant misuse of intellectual power at universities.

“It is my firmest belief that every human being has the freedom and right to identify, dress, and represent oneself as they see fit,” Ingle said. “I think this is all an attempt to silence my views personally because they contradict the ones she pushes in class so evidently.”

Ingle objected to Downie’s “overall abuse” as a professor “indoctrinating” students because she won’t listen to the other side of a controversial argument.

“You can’t say that anecdotal evidence is fact,” Ingle said. “My professor pretty much just tried to shut me up because she was just letting women speak. I brought up the fact that biologists don’t agree that there’s more than two genders and I said the wage gap she’s referring to – 77 cents on the dollar – that even the New York Times debunked that.”

Downie and Ingle had an AIB hearing Friday, with a ruling set for March 19.

If the board rules against Ingle, he won’t graduate in May. Regardless, he plans on someday becoming a professor.

“When you see that kind of misuse of intellectual power, you want to be the person that comes back and does it responsibly and with morals,” Ingle said. “Instead of being the purveyor of your ideology, you can be an educator.”

The university was unable to comment due to student education records, and Downie did not immediately respond to requests for comment.

 

[Mrs Paul]

Depends on what the course was about -- maybe it had to do with social issues and religion? (Like say, how conservative some religions are when it comes to the position of women, or on sex, etc.) All I saw was that it was a "Christianity" class.

 

[Ineedahero]

Here's what our local paper had to say, along with the student's account of the episode. While from his point of view, all he did was challenge the speaker, (and notice he actually doesn't call her a freak, or refer to her as a man, either), this comment of his stood out to me:



So while the teacher may be nuttier than squirrel poop, this kid doesn't sound like Mr Innocent either. He sounds like another entitled snowflake who doesn't like it that he had to listen to something that he disagreed with. It sounds like she's not the only professor that has had issues with this kid.

I'm NOT saying students should just have to "sit down and shut up" during a class. But that depends on the circumstance. Not every lesson is a debate session. Sometimes it IS lecture time. We all had those classmates who liked to argue with the professor and annoyed the shit out of the rest of us. Whether it was some fundie who got all butthurt over learning about evolution, or a SJW who didn't want to learn about "dead white men".

(And finally, he needs to learn that the First Amendment really doesn't apply here. "Freedom of Speech" means the government can't punish him for what he says. A professor sure as hell can tell you, "hey, you're not allowed to discuss X in this class". While I absolutely support freedom of speech, his first amendment rights were certainly NOT violated.)

Bullshit. They watched a Ted talk by a tranny about mansplaining, the most pathetic of social justice's many neologisms, and you call him a snowflake for speaking out? I don't give a shit what else he's said or done in other classes, the fact that the downie couldn't handle that, couldn't rebut it and is trying to fail him by making a big administrative deal over this shows who the snowflake in that class really is.

And fuck yes it's a first amendment issue, he goes to a public university and he's being punished for telling scientific truths - there is no wage gap, and there are two genders.

 

[Your Weird Fetish]

The sad thing is I find him just enjoying disruption equally plausible as every one of his professors being just this crazy.

 

[AnOminous]

Well, from the YouTube thumbnail, I can tell he's a douchebag.

 

[UnclePhil]

https://www.ratemyprofessors.com/ShowRatings.jsp?tid=1631223
Annnnnnnd all the hate rates are gone and only white-knighting positivity remains.

Yeah, but look at the ratio of 'helpful' to 'unhelpful.' I guess you can't edit that out.

 

[Linako 2.0]

All these people saying that you should shut up in the lecture hall, tell the professors what they want to hear and punch your ticket are directly contributing to the degeneration of the modern university. The entire point of a university is to further the quest for the truth. And in the classical setting of education (of which the University is supposed to be), it is beholden upon the students to challenge the teacher. Because if what the teacher is saying cannot withstand a challenge from the student, then the teacher must reevaluate what he or she thinks they know.

University is not supposed to be an extension of high school where you sit at your desk for 8 hours and rote memorize what the Government feels is necessary to consider you a literate citizen. Its supposed to be an open forum of ideas. By doing precisely what is being advised, to just buckle down, write what the professor wants to hear, and wash your hands of it we kill this entire classical form of education dead. You will also kill a small part of your soul dead too. Because if you do it when it doesn't really matter (a stupid college course), then you will do it when it REALLY matters.

It should not be up to euphoric edgelords to be the vanguard of this fight. And if all the shit you post on kiwifarms or /pol/ cannot withstand the rigor of open intellectual challenge in the lecture hall, then maybe it is YOU who needs to reevaluate what you think you know. This works both ways. Silence is affirmation that what you believe is not valid and what the deranged cunt at the front of class is saying is true.

someone sounds like he doesn't want to get a job.

 

[Echo_Ender]

I had to take a "Classroom Equity and Diversity" course my final year of college. The professor pushed the whole "trigger warning" policy down our throats. The repercussions of saying anything mildly against the SJW narrative was to be asked to leave the room, and probably have a talk with the dean. This class infuriated me to no end. I came close myself to being removed after I challenged her idea that "down syndrome" should be renamed "Prince Charming syndrome" and that "foreigner" was a microagression and should instead be called "internationals". So, I can 100 percent believe this kid simply made a statement and this exceptional individual professer was so triggered she thought she was literally being raped and claimed he was having an "outburst".

Stuff like this is why I won't recommend college to anyone these days.

Usually the entire administration is part of the SJW cult, so you're forced to sit through Professors lecturing about all sorts of absurd politics that you can't debate without getting punished.

 

[Mrs Paul]

It seems this particular speaker is a pastor, so it may have had something to do with trans and/or the role of women in Christianity.

Bullshit. They watched a Ted talk by a tranny about mansplaining, the most pathetic of social justice's many neologisms, and you call him a snowflake for speaking out? I don't give a shit what else he's said or done in other classes, the fact that the downie couldn't handle that, couldn't rebut it and is trying to fail him by making a big administrative deal over this shows who the snowflake in that class really is.

And fuck yes it's a first amendment issue, he goes to a public university and he's being punished for telling scientific truths - there is no wage gap, and there are two genders.

Just because it's a public university doesn't necessarily mean that you can act out in class whenever you want. He's not being punished for his views necessarily.
Remember -- we're still only hearing his side of the story. As for why I mentioned his past behavior, my point is that it's very, very unlikely this is the first time he's done something like this, and if he has a history of being disruptive, it could be a "last straw thing". So this most likely wasn't an isolated incident.

Perhaps Downie's a nutjob (she certainly sounds like it), but likewise, this kid sounds like conservative version of a SJW who whines about being triggered whenever there's a conservative speaker invited to the class.
You're not in college to have your views validated -- you're there to learn and being exposed to new ideas, even some you disagree with. We're constantly seeing SJWs and bratty little millenials crying about hate speech and triggers at the drop of a hat. Well, it happens on both sides. He wasn't punished for disagreeing, it seems. He was punished for the WAY he did it, from the looks of it.
Let's say the professor invited oh, Blaire White to give a talk, and some dangerhair stood up and started arguing with her, while they were supposed to be listening? I think we'd probably make fun of them.
There's also a time and place for certain arguments -- it doesn't sound like this was "debate time". Of course, once again, we're only hearing from his side. I imagine the college hasn't spoken for legal reasons.

TL;DR: sauce for the goose, sauce for the gander. If you can't handle hearing viewpoints you don't like, then college isn't for you. (I don't think I'd want to have Downie for a professor, but then, I don't think I'd want to be around this guy either)

 

[Yop Yop]

Well, from the YouTube thumbnail, I can tell he's a douchebag.

Stuff like this is why I won't recommend college to anyone these days.

Usually the entire administration is part of the SJW cult, so you're forced to sit through Professors lecturing about all sorts of absurd politics that you can't debate without getting punished.

My university was a fuckfest. Half of the students were bigot retard-rednecks. The rest a mix of SJW feminists and a few normals. But the entire administration was SJW. We also had an extremely high population of rich Saudis at my university. Some were cool, but most were the creepy rapey types. This caused a huge rift between the students. We had "safe spaces" in the library, we had trigger warnings in every syllabus. However I had one pretty bad ass history professor who gave us a good lecture on the evils of Islam. She was one cool feminist.

 

[Ineedahero]

It seems this particular speaker is a pastor, so it may have had something to do with trans and/or the role of women in Christianity.



Just because it's a public university doesn't necessarily mean that you can act out in class whenever you want. He's not being punished for his views necessarily.
Remember -- we're still only hearing his side of the story. As for why I mentioned his past behavior, my point is that it's very, very unlikely this is the first time he's done something like this, and if he has a history of being disruptive, it could be a "last straw thing". So this most likely wasn't an isolated incident.

Perhaps Downie's a nutjob (she certainly sounds like it), but likewise, this kid sounds like conservative version of a SJW who whines about being triggered whenever there's a conservative speaker invited to the class.
You're not in college to have your views validated -- you're there to learn and being exposed to new ideas, even some you disagree with. We're constantly seeing SJWs and bratty little millenials crying about hate speech and triggers at the drop of a hat. Well, it happens on both sides. He wasn't punished for disagreeing, it seems. He was punished for the WAY he did it, from the looks of it.
Let's say the professor invited oh, Blaire White to give a talk, and some dangerhair stood up and started arguing with her, while they were supposed to be listening? I think we'd probably make fun of them.
There's also a time and place for certain arguments -- it doesn't sound like this was "debate time". Of course, once again, we're only hearing from his side. I imagine the college hasn't spoken for legal reasons.

TL;DR: sauce for the goose, sauce for the gander. If you can't handle hearing viewpoints you don't like, then college isn't for you. (I don't think I'd want to have Downie for a professor, but then, I don't think I'd want to be around this guy either)

I just don't understand where you are getting this from, because like you said we've only heard his side of it so far. And his side of it explicitly says that he interjected after the professor asked the women in the class what they thought and nobody said anything. He wasn't shouting outbursts in the middle of a lecture, he talked at the appropriate time to talk. You say he is being punished for the way he disagreed, but surely you know better than that by now. That is literally what the regressives always say in situations like this, always, because that makes it a subjective issue of he said she said.

Sorry, it seems to me like you saw how much of a douchebag this kid is and you don't want him to be right, so you are looking for any reason to claim he isn't.

 

[MG 620]

I had a similar experience at a conference. We were taught that the term refugee was offensive because once the person comes to Canada they are no longer fleeing. She said all migrants and refugees should be called New Canadians. I think the term refugee is useful and unoffensive because it describes a specific reason why someone would come to another country.

Someone should have told the cunt that even The UN begs to differ.

 

[Mrs Paul]

Or Tom Petty.

I just don't understand where you are getting this from, because like you said we've only heard his side of it so far. And his side of it explicitly says that he interjected after the professor asked the women in the class what they thought and nobody said anything. He wasn't shouting outbursts in the middle of a lecture, he talked at the appropriate time to talk. You say he is being punished for the way he disagreed, but surely you know better than that by now. That is literally what the regressives always say in situations like this, always, because that makes it a subjective issue of he said she said.

Sorry, it seems to me like you saw how much of a douchebag this kid is and you don't want him to be right, so you are looking for any reason to claim he isn't.

I don't know any better - none of us do. I'm making a guess, based on the kid's own words that he's had issues with his professors in the past, and the complaint from the professor, which said he was making "angry outbursts", and "talking out of turn". And again,

Now was he? The professor says he was, he says he wasn't. And no, it's not because "I don't want him to be right", or that I'm "looking for any reason to claim he isn't." More like, there's probably more to the story, and I'm not about to just take what he (or the professor for that matter) says at face value.

If the class is as he described, it sounds like a joke. I'd be interested to know exactly what this particular course was -- he just said it was a "Christianity" class.


Your mileage may vary. *shrugs*

 

[MG 620]

Good point, it could be another Skylar Ittner.

 

[Ineedahero]

Or Tom Petty.



I don't know any better - none of us do. I'm making a guess, based on the kid's own words that he's had issues with his professors in the past, and the complaint from the professor, which said he was making "angry outbursts", and "talking out of turn". And again,

Now was he? The professor says he was, he says he wasn't. And no, it's not because "I don't want him to be right", or that I'm "looking for any reason to claim he isn't." More like, there's probably more to the story, and I'm not about to just take what he (or the professor for that matter) says at face value.

If the class is as he described, it sounds like a joke. I'd be interested to know exactly what this particular course was -- he just said it was a "Christianity" class.


Your mileage may vary. *shrugs*

If I'm being honest, it annoys me that you are giving her the benefit of the doubt, for the reasons I brought up earlier in this thread - every situation like this we see two douchebags butting heads, and everyone says 'ok she shouldn't have done that, but he acted inappropriately too' and it's like they cancel each other out, and everyone moves on and nothing changes.

Meanwhile students who buy into this shit go above and beyond to fuck with professors they don't like - who aren't even conservative in most cases, just not on board with identity politics - and the administration and other professors bend over backwards to insist they have the right to ruin classes. And if they are allowed to shout over classes until everyone leaves because of micro-aggressions, then surely this kid gets to point out that mansplaining is bullshit when the professor asks for input from the class.

And that aside, we've seen this story a thousand times before, and it's telling that we haven't heard from the professor. It's not like she hasn't had the opportunity to tell her side of it, but she won't, and I bet the only way we ever hear it is if there is some kind of hearing and this kid has the wherewithal to tape it.

 

[AnOminous]

Good point, it could be another Skylar Ittner.

I was thinking about Skylar Ittner, but in his case, we know for a fact he acted like an absolute and utter sped.

One major difference is Skylar was going to a private Catholic school. IUP, though, is a public university run by the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, so is bound by the First Amendment, Title IX and so on. If he was discriminated against for being male or for his religion, or punished for protected activities, he could sue them over this. There are organizations like the ACLJ (think a conservative ACLU) who take cases like this.

Obviously, the First Amendment doesn't allow the right to disrupt a class, but if he just stated an on-topic opinion and a bunch of special snowflakes including the prof melted down and started screeching insanely, they were the ones disrupting their own class.

 

[Medicated]

That's a bunch of bullshit. He's being robbed out of a degree. They fucking stole his money and then let some insane lunatic steal what he'd earned from him because when asked for his opinion, he said what he actually believed.

In real colleges, you're supposed to learn to think. In these shithole colleges, they steal your money and then, instead of teaching you to think, teach you to be a stupid motherfucker too dumb to exist in reality.

You're out of your mind if you think this is why people go to college, or should go to college.

Are there real colleges anymore? I'd suggest someone learn on the job these days.

 

[Mrs Paul]

If I'm being honest, it annoys me that you are giving her the benefit of the doubt, for the reasons I brought up earlier in this thread - every situation like this we see two douchebags butting heads, and everyone says 'ok she shouldn't have done that, but he acted inappropriately too' and it's like they cancel each other out, and everyone moves on and nothing changes.

Meanwhile students who buy into this shit go above and beyond to fuck with professors they don't like - who aren't even conservative in most cases, just not on board with identity politics - and the administration and other professors bend over backwards to insist they have the right to ruin classes. And if they are allowed to shout over classes until everyone leaves because of micro-aggressions, then surely this kid gets to point out that mansplaining is bullshit when the professor asks for input from the class.

And that aside, we've seen this story a thousand times before, and it's telling that we haven't heard from the professor. It's not like she hasn't had the opportunity to tell her side of it, but she won't, and I bet the only way we ever hear it is if there is some kind of hearing and this kid has the wherewithal to tape it.

Good point, but what what do YOU propose? Just let students argue and hijack the lessons? Can't do that either. Do you want it to end up like this shit? I sure as hell don't, but that's what I'm afraid is going to happen if we keep up this, "hey, if this offends you, you don't have to listen to it!" atmosphere in academia. Because that's so not the purpose of education.

And as far as the reason we haven't heard from the professor, it's most likely for liability reasons -- schools generally decline to comment publically on this kind of thing.

 

[Ineedahero]

Good point, but what what do YOU propose? Just let students argue and hijack the lessons? Can't do that either. Do you want it to end up like this shit? I sure as hell don't, but that's what I'm afraid is going to happen if we keep up this, "hey, if this offends you, you don't have to listen to it!" atmosphere in academia. Because that's so not the purpose of education.

And as far as the reason we haven't heard from the professor, it's most likely for liability reasons -- schools generally decline to comment publically on this kind of thing.

I don't know what the solution is, I'm not actually optimistic there is one anymore, higher education is a quagmire of shit these days even without the whole political issue and I feel awful for any young kids having to go through it these days. I definitely don't want that shit at Reed to be the norm, but it already is. That was my point, the 'if this offends you you don't have to listen to it' position is already apparently the standard in places like Missouri, Yale, Princeton, Evergreen, Reed, Wesleyan, Oberlin and probably others I've forgotten, as long as the offended are mimicking progressive values.

 

[Marvin]

I don't know why people think lectures are debates. They're not. Any lecture I've been to was in an auditorium, where the seats are arranged like a funnel for you to listen to the person at the podium. To me, that arrangement says a lot.

You're literally paying to be lectured to.

The idea that "universities are supposed to open your mind and open forum for learning and blah blah blah" is a weird argument too. To me, that sounds like a dumbass quoting the declaration of independence as a legal argument.

Actually, if you want an education that fits that "open forum for learning" model, then Evergreen State College is pretty much exactly what you're looking for. Seriously, if you scrape away the sjw nonsense, it seems like a pretty neat setup.

But yeah, outside of Evergreen, if you're going to State University of Bumfuck Whichever, I really do believe you're paying to be talked at.

But to be fair, I also think college is a bureaucratic waste of time and money. If you're lucky enough to head into a career where you can squeak by without going to college, take the opportunity. Just go to the fucking library instead. The library is free. Maybe you'll pay late fees once in awhile, but that's about it.

 

[sperginity]

I don't know why people think lectures are debates. They're not. Any lecture I've been to was in an auditorium, where the seats are arranged like a funnel for you to listen to the person at the podium. To me, that arrangement says a lot.

You're literally paying to be lectured to.

The idea that "universities are supposed to open your mind and open forum for learning and blah blah blah" is a weird argument too. To me, that sounds like a dumbass quoting the declaration of independence as a legal argument.

Actually, if you want an education that fits that "open forum for learning" model, then Evergreen State College is pretty much exactly what you're looking for. Seriously, if you scrape away the sjw nonsense, it seems like a pretty neat setup.

But yeah, outside of Evergreen, if you're going to State University of Bumfuck Whichever, I really do believe you're paying to be talked at.

But to be fair, I also think college is a bureaucratic waste of time and money. If you're lucky enough to head into a career where you can squeak by without going to college, take the opportunity. Just go to the fucking library instead. The library is free. Maybe you'll pay late fees once in awhile, but that's about it.

There are many ways to teach a class, and the syllabus for the class in question said to expect participation in classroom discussion about contentious subject matter. The teacher shouldn't ask for opinions if they are gonna kick people out over hearing those opinions. It was unlikely to be in one of those funnel classrooms, those are mostly reserved for STEM in my experience.