#Comicsgate - The Culture Wars Hit The Funny Books!

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He isn't finding another publisher, though. He's just making his own.

The problem is we can clearly see that the next step will be whatever printer he contracts will start receiving Death threats. That’s the thing with anti competitive practices. You can’t say “well he has other options” you can’t even look at how much money he got on Indiegogo as anything that would reduce the legal liability or criminality. Because the purpose was not just to block the one publisher, but to terrorize and therefore intimidate others. I know we toss around a lot of legal nonsense and Holt Grail BS. But that Facebook group really does brush more than a bit not just into Sherman Act stuff, but into RICO. I don’t think any Fed would be bothered over a bunch of comic books. But if you piss the Feds off they certainly can pencil that one in. Then your life is FUCKED. With a capital F.

It's ironic that these comics "professionals" are themselves acting so cartoonishly that they sound like the cartoon villains they write.


“The Villain is always the Hero in their own story”

What's interesting/one huge difference from Goobergate is that anti-ComicsGater-s seem to have overrun the #ComicsGate tag on Twitter. I think only one or two of the "Top" tweets under the tag is pro- at this point. It was completely the other way around with GamerGate, with every hashtag I remember that the opposition tried to start getting smashed by pro- forces.

Possible chicanery from Twitter HQ or legit activity is what I'm wondering. I'd have dismissed such things as paranoia in the past, but, eh, there seems to be no level Jack & Co. won't sink to at this point.

There are some major core differences between Comicsgate and Gamergate. Mainly surrounding the relationships between the warring parties.

Gamergate had a deep pool of participants. There are several million hardcore gamers out there. Enough to support a $10 billion industry. Gamergate probably had close to 20% participation of them, which meant GG had around 500,000 participants vs maybe 20-40k opponents at best. Gamergate was largely between Gamers and the Press. There was no direct financial tie between the participants. The Game developers and publishers largely stayed out of it. Those few that went full in have almost universally been driven out of the industry by consumer rejection (how’s life treating you Cliffy B?) . So GG was a lot of shitflinging and narrative wars, largely trying to indirectly impact financials. It was a fight the Gamers were always going to win, simply as they are the Alpha consumers. The point where money enters the industry. But the indirect nature meant time, effort and a lot of autism would be involved.

Comicsgate is different. There is a much small pool of hardcore comic buying fans. Probably a couple of hundred thousand at this point. It is not unreasonable to assume that D&C and his fellow Youtubers have achieved capture of the top or most active 20% of that community. The biggest difference between GG and CG is in Comicsgate the battle is directly between the consumers and the content producers. There is a direct and one sided financial relationship. If you piss off a reader of your book, they stop buying your book. In a niche industry such as comics 80% of your profits come from the top 20% of your customers. The “whales” if you will. D&C has captured the attention and interest of a tremendous portion of those “whales”. The nature of Whales is they will continue their spending habits until something brings them to a decision point. They may dismiss their own concerns about Iceman or Squirrel Girl in the hopes of an improvement. But suddenly there is this public discussion where they see their concerns are not alone. That others also feel it is a shit product. Decision point reached, purchases stopped. The comics creators are getting alarmed at how quickly this can swing now. The Aubrey Sitterson G I Joe incidents rattled them. As did the sudden cancellation of the core virtue signaling books. This isn’t covered in Alinsky. The sheep aren’t supposed to talk and fight back. And they certainly aren’t supposed to stop spending money! So they are going full in defamation to try and drive the messengers out.

The Mouse is about to be looming over Zack or Mark Waid and one of those people will be getting destroyed hopefully very soon.

I can't wait.

Zach is a decorated military veteran. Ex Marine and Army. Waid is a fat neck bearded shrieking communist with anger management issues. Which do you think the Mouses PR department will think is the better choice?

How shocking, another fucking troon. I certainly didn't expect that.

That’s really what this is all about. D&C crossed the Trans Mafia. But the normies aren’t following the script. Even when they scream “bigot” at them.

Any idea on the likelihood of Mark getting fired and even blacklisted for pulling this stunt?

Rumor from leaking insiders is once his current writing arcs are done, he is gone with a capital G. And it’s not even a matter of blacklisting. He has burned so many bridges over the years that he has no place else left to go. He’s a mean assed bully. DC washed their hands of him years ago. I don’t think his creator owned Image stuff sells enough to make Diamonds minimum threshold to solicit. IDW certainly can’t afford him and can’t afford the baggage and blowback that comes with him. So where’s he gonna go? Black Mask? It’s not like he carries an embedded fan base. Morrison he is not.
 
The problem is we can clearly see that the next step will be whatever printer he contracts will start receiving Death threats. That’s the thing with anti competitive practices. You can’t say “well he has other options” you can’t even look at how much money he got on Indiegogo as anything that would reduce the legal liability or criminality. Because the purpose was not just to block the one publisher, but to terrorize and therefore intimidate others. I know we toss around a lot of legal nonsense and Holt Grail BS. But that Facebook group really does brush more than a bit not just into Sherman Act stuff, but into RICO. I don’t think any Fed would be bothered over a bunch of comic books. But if you piss the Feds off they certainly can pencil that one in. Then your life is FUCKED. With a capital F.

That level of stuff would be handled by the District Attorney and not the FTC, so we won't be seeing Waide do a perp walk as satisfying as that may be. If the FTC finds out that this is interesting enough to look into, they are going to look for all the publicly available shit to see if its worth their time. Knowing government bureaucrats, the very first thing they will do is a google search, so hello visiting FTC Agent! You will find a trove of information here in this thread and on the rest of the Farms! If the FTC guy now reading this thread decides to launch a formal investigation, Marvel is going to get a letter that will pretty much end Mark Waides career for all time. The one thing a corporation hates more then an IRS audit, is an FTC investigation. The only thing worse is if the FBI shows up and takes all your hard drives.
 
Any idea on the likelihood of Mark getting fired and even blacklisted for pulling this stunt?

I really have a strong suspicion this has already happened. As soon as Waid wraps up anything ongoing Marvel has, he's done, and he's so radioactive nobody will ever hire him again.
 
If this clusterfuck brings down #woke Marvel, I would love it if someone would use this to throw "No Bad Tactics, Only Bad Targets" in MovieBob's and similar people's faces.
 
No, I know it’s not a copyright lawsuit. I’m saying Disney literally controls the legislature and has the best (((lawyers)))) money can buy. I’m just using their copyright and wrongful death suits to say it’s unlikely.
The only way Disney could use their political clout to get out of this would be to force the legislature to say "laws do not apply to the Disney corporation" just flat-out, or to abolish Title 15, which would be equal to unsealing a goddamn Hellgate of bad business practices that not even Disney could survive.

Does anyone remember Mark Waid's Irredeemable series? The main villain features an angry insecure manchild who is initially loved and respected by everyone and has assloads of power but then completely loses it because he simply cannot stomach the slightest bit of criticism lobbied against him and ends up ruining everything.

Mark has become everything he hates *sigh*
Men always hate that which is most vile about themselves.
 
How hilarious would it be if one of the settlements of D&C's suit was that Marvel had to print Jawbreakers?
As funny as that would be, I'm worried the final laugh would be Marvel's as they slip in "anything they print is their IP". Trust not the Mouse in Pants or his Lesser Houses.
 
Any idea on the likelihood of Mark getting fired and even blacklisted for pulling this stunt?
According to an anon, CB Beluski is furious at Mark over this and called him into his office to explain how badly be fucked up. CB apparently already had it out for Waid and had to be persuaded not to ditch him when he got promoted earlier this year, but still maid Waid close his Twitter account. Now the anon is saying that CB is getting Mark out of Marvel the second his contract expires.

DC's social media policies are the exact opposite of Marvel- basically they heavily discourage using your social media as a soapbox IIRC. As well, rumors are suggesting that they're not up to the idea of rehiring Waid due to this. As has been pointed out, Waid's pre-built fanbase isn't enough for any of the smaller publishers to risk losing customers over this. So unless Marky Mark goes fully indie and crowdfunds a comic, the rumor mill suggests he'll be out of the industry soon.
 
The problem is we can clearly see that the next step will be whatever printer he contracts will start receiving Death threats. That’s the thing with anti competitive practices. You can’t say “well he has other options” you can’t even look at how much money he got on Indiegogo as anything that would reduce the legal liability or criminality.

I'm not saying this lessens the culpability of the behavior, just that it's pretty obvious Zack isn't going to be cowed by this and one way or another, his book is getting out. It will also probably sell more copies now. He'll either find a bulletproof publisher that doesn't give a shit, or keep the publisher secret until the books are already printed and warehoused under his control.

Also, while it doesn't alleviate the illegality of the conduct against him, if he ultimately ends up unharmed, it does somewhat limit what damages he can collect. Because the behavior is so reprehensible and repugnant, though, he can still go for serious punitive damages if he feels like it.

I'm honestly not sure how he feels about it. He might actually be satisfied with the cold revenge of Waid actually having inflicted career suicide on himself.
 
I like how any sane person looking at what happened with jawbreakers is like fuck the SJWs and Waid. The idiot woke twitter brigade just upped the success of this book so much. I like that Leonard French video he backed it basically out of spite like many are doing now. DC had captured a small youtube audience of dedicated comic fans which is dwindling. Instead of ignoring him they doused a fire with gasoline and propelled him as another figure in the growing culture war.
 
Black Mask? It’s not like he carries an embedded fan base. Morrison he is not.
Black Mask doesn’t hire straight white men. If Waid was vaguely ethnic or closeted gay, maybe.
There are some major core differences between Comicsgate and Gamergate. Mainly surrounding the relationships between the warring parties.

Gamergate had a deep pool of participants. There are several million hardcore gamers out there. Enough to support a $10 billion industry. Gamergate probably had close to 20% participation of them, which meant GG had around 500,000 participants vs maybe 20-40k opponents at best. Gamergate was largely between Gamers and the Press. There was no direct financial tie between the participants. The Game developers and publishers largely stayed out of it. Those few that went full in have almost universally been driven out of the industry by consumer rejection (how’s life treating you Cliffy B?) . So GG was a lot of shitflinging and narrative wars, largely trying to indirectly impact financials. It was a fight the Gamers were always going to win, simply as they are the Alpha consumers. The point where money enters the industry. But the indirect nature meant time, effort and a lot of autism would be involved.

Comicsgate is different. There is a much small pool of hardcore comic buying fans. Probably a couple of hundred thousand at this point. It is not unreasonable to assume that D&C and his fellow Youtubers have achieved capture of the top or most active 20% of that community. The biggest difference between GG and CG is in Comicsgate the battle is directly between the consumers and the content producers. There is a direct and one sided financial relationship. If you piss off a reader of your book, they stop buying your book. In a niche industry such as comics 80% of your profits come from the top 20% of your customers. The “whales” if you will. D&C has captured the attention and interest of a tremendous portion of those “whales”. The nature of Whales is they will continue their spending habits until something brings them to a decision point. They may dismiss their own concerns about Iceman or Squirrel Girl in the hopes of an improvement. But suddenly there is this public discussion where they see their concerns are not alone. That others also feel it is a shit product. Decision point reached, purchases stopped. The comics creators are getting alarmed at how quickly this can swing now. The Aubrey Sitterson G I Joe incidents rattled them. As did the sudden cancellation of the core virtue signaling books. This isn’t covered in Alinsky. The sheep aren’t supposed to talk and fight back. And they certainly aren’t supposed to stop spending money! So they are going full in defamation to try and drive the messengers out.
Might be a little :powerlevel: but, this is accurate. I was one of those “whales”. I don’t buy any Marvel stuff anymore, mostly keep to DC and some indies. The breaking point for me was when Stan Lee’s situation was flat out ignored when they previously used him to call out the mean racists and sexists of CG. They used him and threw him away like used toilet paper once his usefulness was gone.
For Newcomers: Stan Lee is having a bad year, since his wife died, he’s been getting conned and manipulated by the people around him. Basically leeches are sucking Stan Lee dry both figuratively and literally. From sexual harassment allegations to being tricked into writing legal papers. Stan isn’t an angel, he did some stuff with Kirby most would disagree with, but he’s 95 year old living legend.

See for more info:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=akFwuMXTiK4https://youtube.com/watch?v=2teso_Oj1Ushttps://youtube.com/watch?v=4A-WsxRvWE8https://youtube.com/watch?v=rEhdYkxJdJM
 
I'm not saying this lessens the culpability of the behavior, just that it's pretty obvious Zack isn't going to be cowed by this and one way or another, his book is getting out. It will also probably sell more copies now. He'll either find a bulletproof publisher that doesn't give a shit, or keep the publisher secret until the books are already printed and warehoused under his control.

Also, while it doesn't alleviate the illegality of the conduct against him, if he ultimately ends up unharmed, it does somewhat limit what damages he can collect. Because the behavior is so reprehensible and repugnant, though, he can still go for serious punitive damages if he feels like it.

I'm honestly not sure how he feels about it. He might actually be satisfied with the cold revenge of Waid actually having inflicted career suicide on himself.
I noticed Zack doesn't have much of a bloodthirst... so he is probably content with just opening up his own publishing company and helping people in similar situations to him get their work out there. Now, if they start fucking with his publishing company then he might decide to scorch everything and let the forest regrow from the ashes.
 
I like Zack's YouTube. I like Nick Rikieta's, too (if you aren't familiar, he does these two hour + videos where he reads every word of an internet lolsuit and comments). They're both good for keeping you company while you work on something long and dull -- just the right note of mildly interesting but not too distracting. Sadly, the two of them together had...whatever the opposite is of chemistry. They both did better videos afterwards, talking about the video they did together.

Zack has been a little internet-litigious in the past -- he's pondered going after several figures in the drama for defamation -- right up until, happily, actual RL lawyers explained why suing someone like Perez would be a fruitless money-pit.

He has money in the bank now. More than he needs to get his comic out there. If he thought he had a good case, potentially against deep pockets, I feel sure he'd go for it (and quite a few of his backers would be behind him).
 
Starting his own company and trying to sue Marvel are quite difficult tasks. I'm worried that OBZ (Our Boi Zack) might be flying a little too close to the sun with these moves.
 
To paraphrase that line from the Ishtar Trailer, I cant believe this man might control the fate of the comic industry.

Seriously. At this point this is literally if gamergate was just one youtuber and his fans...and yet managed to somehow have an even greater impact than gamergates legions of spergs, speds, and e-celebs had. How fucking pathetic the comics industry must be if THIS is all it takes to terrify them into such idiotic action

https://youtube.com/watch?v=id=8KdQ7Gig770;t=45

The lynchpin was that they thought that their own level of control of "the industry," which had allowed them to antagonize their customerbase without ramifications up to that point, would last forever. There's only so long you can bleed money until inevitably, the piper needs to be paid. In the end, the decision is to whether to embrace Social Justice and forevermore eschew making an actual profit, or ditch it and make a product customers actually want.

The nerds voted with their wallets, and they ultimately won. This is simple logic. What you may find strange is that this is not a position that the SJWs in Marvel at the time share; the inherent belief of these assclowns (and their fellows in every fucking industry) is that you, the customer, do not get a say in whether or not you support something. Fundamentally, they have the same issues, same weaknesses, and same general mindset of the same assholes you might have seen in both Gamergate and similar occurences in other media, whether PNP RPGs, movies, TV shows, and so on: Fundamentally these asshats do not believe in escapism and do not care about anything other than pushing their message and agenda.

Thankfully for us, that's about as profitable as a dog shit-flavored sundae.
 
I’m not under any illusion his book is going to be amazing or anything like that. He’s pretty much said it’s an average ‘90s styled apolitical action comic. You can’t break any ground or save the comicbook industry with that. But the comics industry is so corrupted by SJWs they made it into a book that will probably be a footnote in comics history. Everyone (in comics) will remember 2018 as the year the comics industry went nuts.

EDIT:
In case you’re wondering what everyone remembers 2017 as:
64F679C9-F80A-43A0-8C43-9A814AEFDA17.jpeg
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/2017-year-almost-everything-went-wrong-marvel-comics-1070616
 
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''Hey you know this patriotic character who fought Nazis, and was created by a Jewish WW2 vet? Let's make him work with the Nazis now because DRUMPF lol''

Marvel deserves all the shit they get for that alone.
 
I don't think it's that they were all that terrified. These little book-burning Himmlers have just been given such absolute free rein by the fake news and society at large that they believed that the law simply didn't apply to them. It was pure arrogance. They were outraged that anyone is allowed to disagree with them at all, and have such absolute contempt for basic human rights that they even invent phrases like "freeze peach" to express their contempt for humanity. They quite simply don't believe anyone who disagrees with them even has the right to do so.

So they're essentially allowed, in their belief, to commit whatever crimes they want to harm anyone who expresses disagreement of any sort with them, no matter how crazy the insane garbage they continually spout is.

I guarantee you a major part of this is the fact that they thought this was 'internet stuff'. A lot of people don't expect consequences for their internet actions. 'Oh, he's on the internet, there's no consequences to me, I didn't do anything in real life lol'. Then when the real-life bat comes down and they don't know what the fuck to do.

The other difference between this and Gamergate is you have a role reversal. D&C is the little guy being bullied by these huge giants. And as others have said, its a much smaller industry.

I think the law of unintended consequences basically has destroyed a lot of the people in this mess. You have to realize, Disney looked at Marvel comics as glorified advertising. They didn't give a shit about D&C, they just wanted them to churn out that crap. Now, you've got the eye of Disney on you, kind of like the eye of Sauron. This is costing them publicity, making them look like bullies, endangering their IP and Fox Deal. Mark Waid is fucking done. He will never work in this industry again. Marvel Comics itself, I wouldn't surprise if it got fucking gutted from groin to collarbone. Because Waid wasn't alone. They'd want to remove anyone who listened to him, absolutely clean house.

This is an obvious, obvious case of Tortious interference. Any message that they project with this behavior has completely backfired. They were going to be embarrassed on an astronomical level by Jawbreakers so they had it pulled. Whether you think its good or bad, it doesn't matter, it would have beaten Marvel's other numbers. And that is a BIG problem for Waid, because D&C can easily point that his comic would have taken a large market share and they were shut out.

This is going to have huge ramifications.
 
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