#Comicsgate - The Culture Wars Hit The Funny Books!

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Kamen America 3 was around 3133 total backers.
Reignbow Brute is 3728 backers but was 2929 before in-demand


The obvious response from certain people is the Rekt Planet numbers, but as I've said before its impossible to determine much of anything from them beyond total money raised. There are too many products sold seperatately that inflate the backer numbers. Its really difficult (and I've tried several times) to come to any solution conclusions about how many customers he really has these days. And that matters for anyone else. Because a business model around an old DC guy milking an aging & declining fan base for every penny they have got only matters to other old men who worked at DC or marvel.

Sure, but why wouldn't the same caveats that disqualify Rekt Planet from representing Frog's current backers not also apply to Reignbow Brute? It just comes off as trying to compare Lim's flagship property vs Frog's 3rd most backed campaign in 2020 because it makes for a more favorable comparison. I do agree that it is extremely difficult to arrive at any conclusion regarding his current number of customers; all of the Bloodhoney campaigns total up to higher than Rekt Planet, but Rekt Planet if anything is more consolidated/less repeat customers than those multiple variant cover campaigns. The Bloodhoney Executive Box campaign infers that there are new customers coming in that weren't around to back the original campaign, but there are doubtless obsessive completionists that backed this campaign. And there's no evidence that this growth, if it is growth, is not off-set by others leaving. The only data I'd feel confident about is the backer count for the third Cyberfrog installment, and that isn't going to be available for a looong time.



In other news:

Jon Del Arroz did follow through with efapping the paywalled hour-long Liamstream but wound up taking nearly four hours; the interruptions every 30 seconds for 2-3 minute of unrelated tangents making it increasingly difficult to even follow Liam's narrative of events. In any case the stream in question was taken down immediately upon ending, no doubt because of the certain threat of flagging by the Orange Koala, which frankly is just as well.


As this happened, the impending confrontation (Sep 17th) between Frog and aspiring SJW breadtuber "Forced Adversity"/Dane Whitman fizzled out this afternoon on account of the latter wanting to send a nobody named Taylor Mitchell out there in his stead while he streamsniped the debate from his own channel and "factchecked" it from the sidelines. I was looking forward to this as Mundane Matt-orbiter Forced Adversity is someone that is near-universally hated, even by CG detractors like Renfamous. Oh well.



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Sure, but why wouldn't the same caveats that disqualify Rekt Planet from representing Frog's current backers not also apply to Reignbow Brute? It just comes off as trying to compare Lim's flagship property vs Frog's 3rd most backed campaign in 2020 because it makes for a more favorable comparison.

The caveats would apply to the numbers. Reignbow Brute might probably underestimate the number of backers, but every other option would greatly overestimate the number of backers. There are no good numbers and no possibility of getting any reliable numbers anymore. But its also not a good idea to simply assume that he is massively gaining backers just because he says so.

I'm open to any better approach to calculating what he is actually doing in terms of business.
 
Well. What you can say for sure is that its not gay. And the artist (whoever he is) is drawing a careful distinction here through the rapey implications that this is NOT April O'Neil of TMNT.
It also follows the Liam Grey rule that women should be helpless victims and never be heroic in comics because its "against our genes".
This sort of high school fan homage to the comics and characters of the 1980s and 1990s is what sets CG apart from the mainstream.
The people are crying out for more comics based on battletoads. Giving it to them is only listening to the market.
and AGAIN. ITS NOT GAY.
That's Cyberfrog #1 from back in the 90s
 
i think that most comicsgate people dont even know why manga/anime is popular. Listening to them, you would think its only popular cause of girls and their boobs, which is way off. Sure, there is some manga, that is just for that audience, that want to look at some sexy drawings, but most popular manga dont really concentrate on that stuff. What makes it popular and pretty damn good is the story and their characters, 2 things that are pretty much dead in american comics and comicsgate books. Japanese guys also know how to make new stuff and dont have to come up with new issues of the same ip every couple of years. Yes, there are some long running manga, like One Piece, Naruto/Boruto, Dragon Ball,... but they are also just one story. They dont have to reboot or remake them, cause the sales go down or they get canceled. American artists should also not compare to the mangaka, as they are working non-stop. Releasing 16 pages every single week is fucking insane and most of them dont have bunch of editors. There is also just one author (99% of the time) who draws and writes and thats why the story doesnt change when you hire a stupid SJW, who wants to insert themself in the book. You can also get every chapter for free every time that chapter comes out on the mangaplus app, which shows you they are not afraid of sales going down.... So yea, comparing those two is pretty stupid, as manga blows american comics out of the water and its not just cause of boobs, but cause they actually have talented people that work their ass off for 15h a day... Oh and they also dont have to talk every day, for hours, on youtube, instead of working on a 40 page book, which a mangaka would make in a month.
 
The caveats would apply to the numbers. Reignbow Brute might probably underestimate the number of backers, but every other option would greatly overestimate the number of backers. There are no good numbers and no possibility of getting any reliable numbers anymore. But its also not a good idea to simply assume that he is massively gaining backers just because he says so.

I'm open to any better approach to calculating what he is actually doing in terms of business.
At its most basic, Frog's current customer pool could be calculated as:
(current number of customers = new customers + retained customers om previous campaigns)
I've gone ahead and totaled the performance of all of Frog's campaigns since the start of 2021:

Code:
Snowman            791
Reignbow Brute     1195
Rekt Planet        1544
Creed              1653
Frog Toys          2594

Creed launched in February and could be taken as the base minimum of active customers that will support anything under Frog's imprint. The greater success of the action figures indicates that, even at a far greater price entry point, there's additional interest for Cyberfrog-specific product beyond anything with the All Caps logo and I'd strongly argue this should be accounted for when trying to calculate customer demand for Cyberfrog-related products by Frog. The Rekt Planet numbers are the most relevant statistic here; this total consisting of sales the comic gained after already campaigning for 9 months. That's not even accounting for ebay sales, which appear to be quite healthy for comics that backers in 2018-2019 have already purchased and received. All this paints a picture that new customers are arriving, but whether they offset leaving customers is anyone's guess. And there being an exodus of customers is presumed due to wait times, but far from proven. There was a lot of talk during the campaign from Comicsgate detractors that Rekt Planet was going to be far smaller than Bloodhoney because of the delays there, and that simply did not pan out in reality. The man is nothing if not a tireless self-promoter; maybe some of it actually pays off?

All that can be said with any degree of confidence is that Rekt Planet showed that at least 2500 of Frog's customers are willing to back at the $200 level (the executive box tier) and the Cyberfrog Action Figure campaign (2500 backers at $191 per backer) has proven that is still the case; anything regarding the amount of customers only willing to back at lower levels is falling back on stats from May 2020, which we can all agree are obsolete.

Another issue is that whatever the results are for this individual a-logged creator, there is no real proof that this has any reflection on the nebulous "CG customer pool". To illustrate my point, we can compare this with Meyer's performance since 2021 started:


Code:
Jawbreakers: Grand Bizarre    19
Impossible Stars              0
Expendables Go To Hell        98
499 Graphic Novel             1474
Knife-hand: Blindspot         1296
Rock N Roll Ninja             1185

19 backers for the Jawbreakers flagship over the course of 8 months ( from a standing number of 4326 ) gives the strong conclusion that anything Meyer sold in 2021 wasn't backed by new customers (because why wouldn't new fans want Jawbreakers?) but by already existing customers who will back anything he puts out while waiting on multiple overdue projects.

You can also get every chapter for free every time that chapter comes out on the mangaplus app, which shows you they are not afraid of sales going down....
To use reflexivist theory: manga is popular because it's cheap and affordable, and it's cheap and affordable because it's popular.
The amount of consumers interested in manga is so great that they can just charge fractions of a penny per issue with ad revenue, or a one-time subscription fee, and there's enough profit that popular mangaka can still make a decent living. Manga publishers can simply upload their comics to an app where hundreds of millions of people are eager to consume it. Mainstream western comics by contrast are sold primary out of creepy, weird locally-owned boutique shops run by cantankerous incels who specialized in dealing in crudely drawn underground porn "comix" before improbably managing to secure an exclusive distribution deal in the late 1970s.
Non-children's/YA western comics aren't just fighting an uphill battle, it's fighting from the bottom of the Marianas trench. To follow this analogy through, Comicsgate - an independent crowdfunded, blacklisted subset of western comics - is buried six feet under the sea bed of the Marianas trench.



EDIT:

In a bit of synchronicity, today both Michael Bancroft and Tim Lim held a crowdfund launch stream for Arc Athena by debuting industry pro Eric Canete (Image, Marvel), the latest comic to be distributed under Lim's Iconic Comics imprint. With Bancroft's co-host Joe Fulton as editor and Eric Weathers on letters, the book advertises 48 pages of sequential art, 16 pages of supplemental material and delivery within 4 month of launch, with Canete saying the next 4 issues have already been completed. This CG/Lim collaboration is, given the dogmatic forever wars that characterize Comicsgate, a very unexpected development.


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Edit: He deleted the tweet, even before the archive finished processing. Hopefully this means he's a bit more self-aware than I first thought? Eh, I'll leave the post up, but spoiler it. No harm, no foul if the mods want it gone.

Does Liam actually believe this? If so, it sure seems like some sort of Death of a Salesman tier delusion. Trailer Park Oz man channeling Willie Loman might actually make for an interesting commentary on our times, come to think of it. 🤔
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This was the best image from Liam's stream about his interactions with @FROG. He literally swore on the bible that everything he said was going to be true and then told untruth after untruth. I mean its not surprising that he treats Christianity as a grift, but a stunt like this reinforces just how much of a sociopath he is.
With the weird suit, he almost looks like an old-school televangelist.

JDA's stream was hard to follow, but generally Liam returned to the more elaborate versions of his lies. In particular his lies about working at marvel in the early 2000s and his lies about being an important part of gamergate and a founder of comicsgate. I missed most of the part where he talked about his later actual interactions with Ethan in 2020 and 2021. But he generally came across as what he usually does in his contacts with pros: An obsessed sort-of stalker who convinces himself that he is an equal peer of the person he is stalking.

One of the better parts covered his being in New Jeresey at the age of 18 and almost running into EVS through mutual contacts. There was also weird stuff that sort of suggested that he (Liam) had the opportunity to potentially have written the X-men with @FROG back in the early 2000s. He was aware of EVS given that he (Liam) was supposedly living in New Jersey at the time. But Liam of course was too busy partying with rock stars and various other activities to follow up on the indirect contacts with @FROG and Marvel about x-men.

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This was the best image from Liam's stream about his interactions with @FROG. He literally swore on the bible that everything he said was going to be true and then told untruth after untruth. I mean its not surprising that he treats Christianity as a grift, but a stunt like this reinforces just how much of a sociopath he is.
With the weird suit, he almost looks like an old-school televangelist.

JDA's stream was hard to follow, but generally Liam returned to the more elaborate versions of his lies. In particular his lies about working at marvel in the early 2000s and his lies about being an important part of gamergate and a founder of comicsgate. I missed most of the part where he talked about his later actual interactions with Ethan in 2020 and 2021. But he generally came across as what he usually does in his contacts with pros: An obsessed sort-of stalker who convinces himself that he is an equal peer of the person he is stalking.

One of the better parts covered his being in New Jeresey at the age of 18 and almost running into EVS through mutual contacts. There was also weird stuff that sort of suggested that he (Liam) had the opportunity to potentially have written the X-men with @FROG back in the early 2000s. He was aware of EVS given that he (Liam) was supposedly living in New Jersey at the time. But Liam of course was too busy partying with rock stars and various other activities to follow up on the indirect contacts with @FROG and Marvel about x-men.

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I didn't live in New Jersey from 1995-2015. I didn't even visit New Jersey during that time span.

Where is JDA's efap of this stream?
 
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I didn't live in New Jersey from 1995-2015. I didn't even visit New Jersey during that time span.

Where is JDA's efap of this stream?
He took it down immediately to avoid the copyright strike. Liam was too dumb to strike the four-hour stream in progress. But JDA was smart enough to erase it after it ended. I would guess it will eventually show up somewhere.
 
Well. What you can say for sure is that its not gay. And the artist (whoever he is) is drawing a careful distinction here through the rapey implications that this is NOT April O'Neil of TMNT.
It also follows the Liam Grey rule that women should be helpless victims and never be heroic in comics because its "against our genes".
This sort of high school fan homage to the comics and characters of the 1980s and 1990s is what sets CG apart from the mainstream.
The people are crying out for more comics based on battletoads. Giving it to them is only listening to the market.
and AGAIN. ITS NOT GAY.
So that's from CYBERFROG #1 (1996) Harris Comics.

It's the first published drawing of Heather Swain from the series. Heather kicks that dude in the balls, and eventually kills him.

But nothing in that scene is literal.

Why is Edwin Boyette bringing up comics I drew while Kurt Cobain was freshly dead in order to say something (?) about ComicsGate?
 
I didn't live in New Jersey from 1995-2015. I didn't even visit New Jersey during that time span.

He has been telling stories about you, him and New Jersey since 2018 when he first surfaced in comicsgate. He told a story on a video from October 2018 where he said he was dating the daughter of your High School Principal back in the early 2000s. He was going to marry her. But then he didn't.
 
Its happening! (Insert Ron Paul gif I'm too lazy to find.)
Edit: A lot, sorry.
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As an aside, I'm completely confused as to exactly which goony beard man EVS is debating here. The original guy, the replacement guy, or somebody new? I guess it doesn't really matter, the autism will be off the charts no matter what. And no doubt will quickly degenerate into name calling and ad hominem.

How the hell do you even declare comicsgate "invalid?" Stupid, okay. Hypocritical? Yeah, I can see that. Overpriced, always late and stuffed with tards? Works for me. Overrun with alt-right yahtzees and their fellow travelers? LOL, no, but even that makes more sense as a point of debate than "invalid."
 
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Its happening! (Insert Ron Paul gif I'm too lazy to find.)
Edit: A lot, sorry.
Twitter / Archive
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As an aside, I'm completely confused as to exactly which goony beard man EVS is debating here. The original guy, the replacement guy, or somebody new? I guess it doesn't really matter, the autism will be off the charts no matter what. And no doubt will quickly degenerate into name calling and ad hominem.

How the hell do you even declare comicsgate "invalid?" Stupid, okay. Hypocritical? Yeah, I can see that. Overpriced, always late and stuffed with tards? Works for me. Overrun with alt-right yahtzees and their fellow travelers? LOL, no, but even that makes more sense as a point of debate than "invalid."
My predicted talking points:

Comics have always been political
The Market is growing
Gender / race swaps have always been a thing
You say mean jokes
Yeah but Dust is lame and nobody likes her
 
Using Backer Tracker first day numbers which are imperfect because of the breakpoints.


ProjectFirst Day Backers (Backer Tracker)
Kamen America1,445
Inglorius Rex1,311
Godlike916

The number of people interested in paying for Kamen America on Kickstarter during the 1st 24-hours was greater than Comicsgate's most backed projects - despite the Kamen America team being almost invisible on youtube.
Lim seems to have more competitive price points and has a tighter production schedule, from memory Lim's Books are 95% complete before he crowdfunds them.

 
My predicted talking points:

Comics have always been political
The Market is growing
Gender / race swaps have always been a thing
You say mean jokes
Yeah but Dust is lame and nobody likes her
So...boring as fuck and you might as well watch the idiots sperg out on Friday Night Tights, yeah, can't really quarrel with that. (Wouldn't it be funny if THEY stream sniped this "debate," though? This "debate" is going to be on head to head against them, after all.)
 
So that's from CYBERFROG #1 (1996) Harris Comics.

It's the first published drawing of Heather Swain from the series. Heather kicks that dude in the balls, and eventually kills him.

But nothing in that scene is literal.

Why is Edwin Boyette bringing up comics I drew while Kurt Cobain was freshly dead in order to say something (?) about ComicsGate?
It's a comic book not a historical document - of course it's not literal - ventilate your basement Frog.

Why is Ethan Van Sciver responding in an passive-effeminate manner - too much practice with "soy/gay" voice?

Your panel is good example of the embedded contradictions in CG, but when did you get so thin skinned?
You've drawn a 16 year old in an over-sexualized manner, and then told your audience at the time not to see her in the hypersexual manner you chose to depict her in.
 
You've drawn a 16 year old in an over-sexualized manner, and then told your audience at the time not to see her in the hypersexual manner you chose to depict her in.
The jailbait trope was popular in pop culture at a point in time, just look at any teen movie from the 80's & early to mid 90's. Times have changed, and it's clearly done in a satirical way. You can't fairly hold things from then to today's standards because the culture has changed.
 
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