Community Debate Ethics in VTubing, Model Design and Voice Acting, Loli and Loli-adjacency - Containment zone for third rail enjoyers

[Maeis]

Completely separate from the primary conversation of this thread: yaoi is porn made for women by women featuring their idealized perception of gay relationships. What actual gay men are interested in is very different from yaoi.

and I'm guessing that anime feet completely removes the gross part about real feet as well.

 

[Major von der Westfront]

For me, I just figured out which ones I liked:

Hoshimachi Suisei: HATES being sexualized, does not do fan service, and has musical talent.

Cecilia Immergreen: German woman who plays violin and is a dork. I appreciate that and I happen to enjoy listening to german people speak English and have decent improv.

Notice what's different?

they have talent. It isnt UOOH CUNNY KANI SQUAD KANI SQUAAAAD like Saba, Shondo, Kiki, Kirsche (who literally grifts), etc.

Its why even as someone who does engage in the Vtuber thread a ton, having written 3 threads myself such as Hololive girl's history which I need to finish, the Kson thread, and the Mikeneko thread in PG., I am not a fan of the loli shit and it's been a problem.

And yes, some of the JP girls from Hololive have mentioned Loli or shota. Those same ones I hardly watch and all ive seen of them was one clip at most (such as Shirogane Noel saying she likes boys because theyre more innocent than men which still irks me to this day). I never understood how the fuck someone can willfully ignore obvious pedobait like Saba or the Kirsche Loli model to the extent that they tune it out.

 

[BarberFerdinand]

and I'm guessing that anime feet completely removes the gross part about real feet as well.

I don't know. The jokes I always see about foot fetishists makes it seem like they like the gross parts.

 

[Disdainer of the Plebs]

It is truly sad we need a powerpoint style presentation on what and what is not a child to break through the skulls of some people. SAD. PATHETIC.

They understand. They just act like they don’t to shield themselves from the backlash they rightfully deserve for publicly admitting to masturbating to pictures of cartoon children.

Just like troons.

 

[Maeis]

I never understood how the fuck someone can willfully ignore obvious pedobait like Saba or the Kirsche Loli model to the extent that they tune it out.

I'm not attracted to Gura/Saba and don't feel like just because other people are that it'd make it evil/immortal to watch. Because if you use that standard than you watch the lolicons take everything slowly.

 

[Jewthulhu]

So now VTubers need to pass your IRL body scan to be valid? It’s an anime avatar, not a 3D model. This isn’t realism, it’s stylized art. Judging character legitimacy based on waist-to-hip ratio is like arguing with cartoons because they don’t match your anatomy textbook.

Dude, it looks like a child. You can sperg about how the heads rule and waist-to-hip is bullshit, but literally anyone will look at it and instantly nail it as a child character. You're intentionally being misleading.

 

[Super Struggle Snuggler]

What is the distinction? What is the difference between yaoi and gay? Or anime feet and 3dpd feet? How are you so absolutely certain someone into lolicon is never, ever going progress in their porn addiction?

By that logic, should we lock up everyone who has enjoyed a violent action movie or played Doom because we can't guarantee they won't get their next thrill out of shooting up a Walmart? Or keep matches away from anyone who takes too much joy in a bonfire lest it develop into full on pyromania?

Extreme leaps, for the sake of argument, but in the violence aspect, an argument that has been made for years. Is "how can we be sure people keep the barrier between reality and fiction intact" any more or less valid in those cases?

Also the primary difference between yaoi and gay is that yaoi is an acronym. "YAmete, Oshiri ga Itai." ("Stop it, my ass hurts.")

Here is another petite woman vtuber model. Notice what she has? That's right. She has tits and she has a clearly developed body.

View attachment 7585501

How about the old lady here? No sign of tits or hips, but very Japanese, which fits for some Asian chicks. I have known adults with this body type (but not the anime proportions, that'd be freaky) because Asians be Asian. Not getting into content, just design, loli or baba?

 

[Kivotos strongest Sensei]

What is the distinction? What is the difference between yaoi and gay? Or anime feet and 3dpd feet? How are you so absolutely certain someone into lolicon is never, ever going progress in their porn addiction?

This is the same sort of argument leftists make when they advocate for disarming Americans. The  potential for something going wrong doesn't mean that it will go wrong. When you say, and I'm paraphrasing, that "we should ban lolicon because it will inevitably lead to real children being harmed" it is no different from someone saying "we should ban guns because it will inevitably lead to someone getting shot".

Of course I now expect some of you retards to not tackle the actual argument and say something along the lines of "Jerking off to lolicon is different from owning a firearm!" because you either unironically lack the mental capacity for deeper thought, or are aware of trap you're setting up for yourselves.

A firearm is, by its very conception, a tool meant to kill. It can't be realistically used for anything else but to kill. That means that every firearm owner is a potential killer, but you do not arrest people on the assumption of the potential crimes they might commit in the future. The same way most countries don't arrest people for having lolicon content on the assumption of the potential crimes they might commit in the future.

 

[Leutnant]

Man, this whole topic is really a trashfire and there isn't really much empirical studies in this regard.

 

[4090 Chad]

The funniest thing about the Saba situation is... she could have technically given her fans an out (not that it actually would have mattered in the grand scheme of things).

She could have put an age... even a meme one like 5,000 years old, so the lolicon fans could have had their tried and true talking point about how she is an adult behind the avatar and even her official lore states she's an adult...

But she wouldn't even give them that

 

[WelperHelper99]

They understand. They just act like they don’t to shield themselves from the backlash they rightfully deserve for masturbating to pictures of cartoon children.

Just like troons.

Typical Lolicon L. But expected when they cannot use the L+Ratio on a platform and actually get genuine criticism.

By that logic, should we lock up everyone who has enjoyed a violent action movie or played Doom because we can't guarantee they won't get their next thrill out of shooting up a Walmart? Or keep matches away from anyone who takes too much joy in a bonfire lest it develop into full on pyromania?

Extreme leaps, for the sake of argument, but in the violence aspect, an argument that has been made for years. Is "how can we be sure people keep the barrier between reality and fiction intact" any more or less valid in those cases?

Sexual urges are not violent urges and you fucking know it.

Also the primary difference between yaoi and gay is that yaoi is an acronym. "YAmete, Oshiri ga Itai." ("Stop it, my ass hurts.")


View attachment 7585533

How about the old lady here? No sign of tits or hips, but very Japanese, which fits for some Asian chicks. I have known adults with this body type (but not the anime proportions, that'd be freaky) because Asians be Asian. Not getting into content, just design, loli or baba?

That is a fucking toddler.

 

[cybertoaster]

"Adjacent"? practically all vtubers have a loli design either flat or with tits but I only seen maybe 3 that could pass as a highschool girl, which is still jailbait.

 

[Disdainer of the Plebs]

By that logic, should we lock up everyone who has enjoyed a violent action movie or played Doom because we can't guarantee they won't get their next thrill out of shooting up a Walmart? Or keep matches away from anyone who takes too much joy in a bonfire lest it develop into full on pyromania?

Extreme leaps, for the sake of argument, but in the violence aspect, an argument that has been made for years. Is "how can we be sure people keep the barrier between reality and fiction intact" any more or less valid in those cases?

Also the primary difference between yaoi and gay is that yaoi is an acronym. "YAmete, Oshiri ga Itai." ("Stop it, my ass hurts.")


View attachment 7585533

How about the old lady here? No sign of tits or hips, but very Japanese, which fits for some Asian chicks. I have known adults with this body type (but not the anime proportions, that'd be freaky) because Asians be Asian. Not getting into content, just design, loli or baba?

This has to be a troll job.

 

[Abbadon's Gate]

Sexual urges are not violent urges and you fucking know it.

Tell that to Mr. Bundy.

 

[Gregis]

"we should ban guns because it will inevitably lead to someone getting shot"

Yup, and that's a good thing. What even are you saying? Sometimes someone has to get shot, you didn't even say something like "it will lead to the wrong person getting shot" or "it will lead to someone getting shot unjustly". Guns are for shooting people, that can be necessary.

Lolicon will lead to someone jerking off to images that look like children. It's for people who want to jerk off to children, and whether you can point to an individual child who personally suffers a harm from it or not, that's all it is. That's not necessary in any way. People who can't go without that could justifiably be shot...if only there was a useful tool for that purpose...

 

[Cheese_lad]

By that logic, should we lock up everyone who has enjoyed a violent action movie or played Doom because we can't guarantee they won't get their next thrill out of shooting up a Walmart?

This is a false equivalence. A more fair comparison would be getting sexual pleasure from mowing down civilians in a GTA game, which I feel very comfortable saying anyone who had an experience like that should be banned from owning firearms and should be on a list.

 

[Jex]

The idea that this chick went out to do market research to develop the most profitable vtuber persona and came back with pure pedobait tells you something, the entire vtuber scene is fucked.

 

[WelperHelper99]

Tell that to Mr. Bundy.

Currently he is dead. And its hilarious how you have to bring up a literal serial killer to "own" me.

 

[God's strongest milkman]

I think there are two people that like lolicon. People that have no real relationships and only experience simulated sex or porn and people that do have those things and are also attracted to children.

The fictionsexuals (incels, total introverts, the completely incapable of socialization or just lack any interest in real people and especially women.) are genuine with their arguments for lolicon, they genuinely don't see how it's harmful to real people and never will. The idea that their fiction has real world consequences is silly to them because nothing they do has real world consequences.

They live in fiction. they see lolicon and completely divorce them from real kids in every way because they do that with adult women too. The reaction from these people when you argue with them is incredulity because you've kicked into their goon cave and called them a pedophile, they've never touched the opposite sex and probably don't plan to, they have their hentai.

The second are very attracted to children. Lolicon to them is a sort of low risk legal form of release, they would harm real kids eventually if left alone and might already be doing so. I think they tend to be the more flagrant when confronted because they get off on not just pedophilia but on being a pedophile. What they are not just what they do is arousing to them.

The problem is figuring out who is who. I could be wrong but I'm inclined to believe the fictionsexuals are relatively harmless. The likelihood they hurt anyone is very little.

The less introverted and the more smarmy a lolicon is I think the higher chance that he's an actual pedophile.

I also give the vtubers a slight benefit of the doubt. They all know they market and sell entertainment and parasocial relationships to lolicons but I think they assume that 99% of them are fictionsexuals and not pedophiles. When a vtuber thinks of their audience they think of the quintisential fat loser weeb who jacks off. They think of gator being their average fan, not Nick Bates.

I think if you watch enough anime and especially start young you eventually become a fictionsexual. im pretty sure everyone who's watched a handful of anime are normal and would find lolicon weird but all the hardcore weebs accept lolicon.

 

[Abbadon's Gate]

Currently he is dead. And its hilarious how you have to bring up a literal serial killer to "own" me.

Who said its to 'own' you?