Doomworld - AKA Troonworld, a dedicated safe space for pedophiles and megalomaniacs - Corrupting the Doom community since 2016

[Retard Marine]

AI shills deserve it, though, don't they? Those data centers are evil unleashed, a recipe for Hell on Earth.

I do not read Doomworld much anymore but I don't think Redneckerz (note that his forum avatar is a picture of a floating human head, just in case you thought "floating head man" referred to Carmack) has ever shilled for the big AI companies there. He's always been a fanboy of Nightdive's products though.

Regardless of what you or I may think about the business around AI, it makes little sense (at least to me) to take an extremist stance against any and all use of AI in, say, a video game modding community (which Doomworld seems to have taken) especially if said AI is running locally, nobody is trying to pass anything off as their own artistic work, and nobody is just constantly posting stupid slop.

 

[Curry Teafag]

Redneckerz (note that his forum avatar is a picture of a floating human head, just in case you thought "floating head man" referred to Carmack)

I have interacted with him before, he's a very okay guy, but people need to be made more aware of what AI means for everyone. Sometimes, an unfriendly reminder can help with that.

 

[Retard Marine]

Just a random thought: Being a skilled player in Doom (And Quake + some other games) meant doing great in DM up until recent time, when speedrunners became the "pinnacle of skill" (Even doe it's just memorising level layout and passing it fast). Why did that happen?

The Doom speedrunning scene got started way back in the mid-1990s already and both good speedrunners and good deathmatchers were respected back then at least in the places I frequented decades ago. Of course none of the runners back then were trannies. COMPET-N was the Doom community's "official" repository of speedrun records. Eventually Adam Hegyi lost interest in maintaining it and things started to move to Troonworld and Youtube.

The best Doom speedrunners in those days were probably all good deathmatchers as well but not all the best deathmatchers were speedrunners. To give you some big names: ocelot, Johnsen, Sedlo, Yonatan Donner. All very good deathmatchers, all very good speedrunners. DevastatioN and JKist on the other hand always played deathmatch only and there were some very good European DM only players as well whose names I've forgotten.

In the current and previous decade Looper has been one of the best Doom speedrunners and is also a very very good deathmatch player, though practically nobody plays Doom deathmatch anymore anyway which is the answer to your question: these competitive "arena" shooters sadly just died off completely as a genre. Kids would rather play CS or Fortnite than duels. There's a tiny QuakeWorld (Quake 1) deathmatch scene still going on which even arranges international LAN parties occasionally but Doom has nothing.

If anything I (as an old DM only player) would say that speedrunning Doom requires more skill. You can get by in DM and score decently well (you'll still lose of course) against the best of the best if you simply have good aim and reactions even if your movement is lacking (mine always was no matter how much I played) and you keep sticking to corners, failing wallruns and item bumps, lack the manual dexterity to use SR50 optimally without cheating, etc. I'm not going to name any names here but due to the incredible power of the SSG, really really good (godlike) aim and reactions could even compensate for a very lacking intelligence extremely well, especially in maps like Dwango5 Map1 or Map7, Judas23_ or SSL2, all very popular in the duel scene when it existed.

The speedrunning grind always felt very boring to me compared to the thrill of deathmatching anyway but I'm not sure I could have been a speedrunner even if I wanted to. Dev and JKist probably could have managed it.

 

[Retard Marine]

Apologies for the bump but the edit timer has expired and I felt like I still needed to clarify a few points from the previous history lesson:

COMPET-N was founded in late 1994 and for the first year or two, when Doom 2 still had some mainstream popularity, deathmatching probably was a more prestigious activity (it was definitely much more popular). Thresh won one of Carmack's Ferraris by being a good deathmatcher, not by being a good speedrunner, and he never did speedruns. But by the late 1990s this had already changed and two of the absolute best speedrunners from around that time (ocelot and Johnsen, with ocelot being active until the late 00s) were also two of the absolute best deathmatchers, and nothing I ever saw in the competitive parts of the community back then pointed to speedrunning being considered a second-tier activity.

And I stress that anything I said regarding skill required applies to Doom only. I know nothing about Quake. I don't even know the history of that scene so I have no idea how much crossover there was between the top tier speedrunners and deathmatchers in Quake. My gut feeling is there's less of a skill floor gap between DM and speedrunning (maybe DM could even be more demanding than speedrunning) in Quake because being competitive in Quake DM at all really requires mastering movement which is also more complex than Doom's (with bunnyhops, rocket jumps and grenade jumps) and also being able to time item respawns. (If you didn't already know, somehow the Doom duel scene settled into mostly playing with item respawning turned off.)

 

[Morridowfag]

Regardless of what you or I may think about the business around AI, it makes little sense (at least to me) to take an extremist stance against any and all use of AI in, say, a video game modding community (which Doomworld seems to have taken) especially if said AI is running locally, nobody is trying to pass anything off as their own artistic work, and nobody is just constantly posting stupid slop.

I'm pretty heavily in the anti-AI camp but I won't deny that modding can benefit a crapton from good use of it and modders themselves are autistic enough to actually use it for good instead of slop. A recent-ish example is a certain Warcraft 3 campaign making heavy use of AI VA to create a pure shitpost masterpiece. Granted, Doom doesn't suffer from things like a lack of voicework but I can see it helping with shit like skyboxes, chapter headers or map tracks, ideally as placeholders but if it works, looks/sounds good and you're open about it and the maps are actually manmade and fun then good be good and if a proper artist catches interest then it can be even better. There's this fucking ancient shitpost tierlist that put the worst people as idiots who agree with you and God if the whole AI argument ain't proving it right.

 

[Weird Sardine]

There's this fucking ancient shitpost tierlist that put the worst people as idiots who agree with you...

If someone "agrees" with you for entirely different reasons, then only in the most superficial sense is there an agreement. I wouldn't worry myself about it.

For example, I would like more walkable cities, hate oversized trucks etc. but my motivations for feeling this way are utterly different from your left-wing r/fuckcars morons.

 

[Morridowfag]

If someone "agrees" with you for entirely different reasons, then only in the most superficial sense is there an agreement. I wouldn't worry myself about it.

For example, I would like more walkable cities, hate oversized trucks etc. but my motivations for feeling this way are utterly different from your left-wing r/fuckcars morons.

I know but sometimes a man has to vent because he has been worn down by constantly being on the same side as a collective of utter fuckwits that you really wish were on the other side of the aisle instead.