Format/Codec Wars - AV2 vs. VVC / H.266

[The Mass Shooter Ron Soye]

I haven't checked but it's highly likely most of my video collection is h264. Should I bother encoding it all to h265? I'm not considering AV1 for fears of incompatibility with some devices (possibly unfounded). Another fear, also possibly unfounded, is that I would feel compelled to check every file thoroughly afterwards, just in case the re-encoding fucks the files up somehow. Not sure I wanna commit to that.

Personally, I wouldn't fuck around with anything. How big is the collection, and how spread out is it? You could buy one of the 24-30 TB hard drives (at $10-15 per TB) and copy everything onto it (retaining other copies to avoid data loss).

 

[Creative Username]

Should I bother encoding it all to h265?

if you accept the fact that it will degrade the quality, because h265 is lossy just like h264, but is incompatible with h264, so it needs to be put through the frequency transform predictive frame blender again

I'm not considering AV1 for fears of incompatibility with some devices (possibly unfounded).

hevc is even less compatible than av1 from the things i've seen, with a handful of exceptions probably

Another fear, also possibly unfounded, is that I would feel compelled to check every file thoroughly afterwards, just in case the re-encoding fucks the files up somehow.

if you think av1 would fuck up your files that bad, why on earth do you think h265 wouldn't?

 

[Smaug's Smokey Hole 2]

i said decoder efficiency, as in "your shitbox can decode this video like it decodes an h.264 video"

Oh.

if you accept the fact that it will degrade the quality, because h265 is lossy just like h264, but is incompatible with h264, so it needs to be put through the frequency transform predictive frame blender again

There's only a point to it if the original file is an 8GB 90 minute movie in 1080p encoded in h264.

If any of it is anime then just go nuts, those things won't get hurt even if they were crushed down to RGB 565.

 

[Jang Joo]

Personally, I wouldn't fuck around with anything. How big is the collection, and how spread out is it? You could buy one of the 24-30 TB hard drives (at $10-15 per TB) and copy everything onto it (retaining other copies to avoid data loss).

Solely video comes up to around 2 TB across 4 disks. A lot of good samaritans out there put me to shame I suppose it may not be worth the effort, I'm just stingy and sometimes go looking for avenues to byte pinch.

 

[Creative Username]

I'm just stingy and sometimes go looking for avenues to byte pinch.

there is actually absolutely nothing wrong with wanting to be space-efficient everywhere. it's a vanishingly rare type of autism in current year
maybe you should look into possibly remuxing them in different container formats or re-encoding the audio or something of that nature

also as @Smaug's Smokey Hole 2 said, you should just blast the fuck out of any anime with impunity
just start a few av1 veryslow jobs and come back in a few months when they're done (the slower av1 presets can be like that...)

 

[The Mass Shooter Ron Soye]

Solely video comes up to around 2 TB across 4 disks. A lot of good samaritans out there put me to shame I suppose it may not be worth the effort, I'm just stingy and sometimes go looking for avenues to byte pinch.

That collection is small. You could get a single 5-10 TB HDD (whatever is a good deal, I don't follow it much since I became pirate streaming pleb only) and mirror all those drives for easier access.

I would put effort into making a NAS and providing wireless access to all devices on the network, rather than messing around with re-encoding. Just see if the pirate sites have x265 or AV1 copies and grab those going forward if you want. From a glance at BT4G, I'm guessing H.265 is at least 50-100 times more popular than AV1, so it is the only relevant post-H.264 codec in this space at this time.

 

[Creative Username]

I'm guessing H.265 is at least 50-100 times more popular than AV1

this tracks with the scene tradition of using the goofiest codec currently in general use

most of the torrents on some trackers i occasionally look at are actually h265 too

 

[The Mass Shooter Ron Soye]

lossless webp can actually be a lot better than lossy webp when saving images with big flat colors like screenshots of text
this is due to how the discrete whatever the fuck transforms in the lossy mode work, which throw away the regular lines and crisp colors in the screenshots in favor of noisy frequency distributions that end up harder to compress in the end

In my testing so far, lossless isn't beating out 75% for Bluesky screenshots, which usually have avatars and sometimes photos along with text and flat colors. But I just did an Ars Technica screenshot with some avatars in it that did benefit from lossless. (I'm only looking at file sizes, visuals are generally indistinguishable at 75% quality.) GIMP 2.10.38.

If GIMP's webp export dialog gave an estimate of what the lossless and selected quality file sizes would be, or just overrode and picked lossless if it was going to be smaller, it would be a perfect situation for me.

 

[cigint]

We invented digital storage and accepted sampling loss in digitizing all of our analog media, exactly so that information could be copied losslessly to new storage media forever. Leave it to retarded people to fuck that up by encoding that information over and over again until it's destroyed. Fuck this gay earth.

 

[Creative Username]

Leave it to retarded people to fuck that up by encoding that information over and over again until it's destroyed.

works fine with my lossless formats!

oh have i mentioned that thing jxl can do, where it can losslessly compress a jpeg to make it smaller, while being visually identical to that jpeg, and optionally allowing you to restore the exact structure of the original jpeg

 

[XYZpdq Jr.]

And yet niggers still won't stop using barely compressed h264 instead of even a reasonably efficient codec like HEVC, because in nigger logic bigger file = better quality.

in my case I use h264 because I encode for the random ancient potato machines I use

 

[geckogoy]

oh have i mentioned that thing jxl can do, where it can losslessly compress a jpeg to make it smaller, while being visually identical to that jpeg

Ah yeah we got a funny guy here, good thing jeetTube carefully picks encodings and settings such that it perfectly preserves the old info

 

[Creative Username]

Ah yeah we got a funny guy here, good thing jeetTube carefully picks encodings and settings such that it perfectly preserves the old info

lmao who uploads shit to fucking youtube expecting it to be preserved in any way or sees shit on youtube and thinks it will be preserved for any length of time

it's like you threw a small child into tranny central and was all surprised when it got gang raped
new formats are based and i hope there's a day when people have h.264 decoders but not h.264 encoders because encoding anything in h.264 is a warcrime like encoding anything in jpeg

 

[Judge Dredd]

I haven't checked but it's highly likely most of my video collection is h264. Should I bother encoding it all to h265? I'm not considering AV1

I would say no.

Going forward, maybe give av1 a try. If you're videos are from the high seas or youtube, grab AV1 if it's available and give it whirl. The space savings from 264 to 265 are nice but likely not worth the time or hassle of converting. AV1 might be a different story as the space savings are big, but the encode time is long.

If you're knowledgeable enough to understand this thread, then AV1 compatibility shouldn't be an issue for you. And these days a modern CPU can do a "very slow" 264 compress faster than real time, so if it doesn't pan out it should be easy for you re-encode down. I'm told some home media set ups re-encode video on the fly to match the device.

 

[The Mass Shooter Ron Soye]

Tom's Hardware: Optical drive demand surges amid Windows 10 retirement — Japanese users switching to Windows 11 are buying up Blu-ray drives (archive)

People building new systems solely for the reason of getting on board with Windows 11 are now in the market for disc drives, which is likely the main driver behind this sudden trend.

 

[Flaming Dumpster]

I'm yet to find one program that can clip my HEVC encoded movie torrents without shitting the bed and not forcing me to re-encode the whole fucking thing in x264 just to clip it.

Avidemux has HEVC support and if it's like x264, you cut on I-frames so you can trim the video without re-encoding.

Also calls H.265 a success:

I don't consider either of them a true success since they haven't unseated H.264 from its throne but HEVC becoming the pirate's choice for whatever reason does put it ahead AV1.

 

[The Mass Shooter Ron Soye]

I don't consider either of them a true success since they haven't unseated H.264 from its throne but HEVC becoming the pirate's choice for whatever reason does put it ahead AV1.

H.265 was released 5 years earlier than AV1 and is substantially supported. The entire legendary Skylake 14nm+++++++ era of Intel CPUs starting from 10 years ago (6th gen), and AFAIK every chip officially supported by Windows 11 has some level of H.265 hardware decode support. Also the Raspberry Pi 4/5, many TVs, phones, etc.

Tiger Lake and Rocket Lake (11th gen) were the first Intel CPUs to get AV1 decode, in 2020-2021. AMD RDNA2 GPUs (with the notable exception of low-end Navi 24) in 2020, Rembrandt APUs and Raphael CPUs in 2022. Qualcomm reluctantly adopted AV1 decode in late 2022.

Pirates don't have to worry about licensing fees that some companies did. H.265 is the encoding used on 4K UHD Blu-rays, and has been used by Netflix and other streaming services.

 

[Hentai-Semitism]

I use 10-bit HEVC when I shoot video with my Galaxy S21U. I did extensive testing and it looks like AVC is worse in every way. The biggest problem with AVC is that it seems to add lots of postprocessing. Not that much of a difference as JPG vs RAW, but still.

Going out of your way to make things look natural is very frustrating.

 

[The Mass Shooter Ron Soye]

AOMedia AV2 open video codec release nears, delivers around 40% bandwidth reduction

In the meantime, Debargha Mukherjee, Google Principal Engineer, has shared a progress report about AV2, first offering a historical perspective with the list of digital video codecs from 1990 to 2030 (expected), then stating AV2 goals, and going through requirements, coding tools, and what’s been achieved so far. You can check the eleven-minute presentation (04:27 – 15:30) embedded at the end of this post, or continue reading for the highlights of the talk.

The final slide shows subjective AV2 performance metrics. I did these types of tests for image compression when I was an intern at the University of Bath, and it consisted of getting people in front of a computer with two identical displays to show them photos side-by-side compressed with different parameters, and let them select which one looked best. Google did something similar with AV2 and (modified) AV1 4K UHD videos, and found that on average (BD-rate) column AV2 needed 38% fewer bits than the improved AV1 at the same perceived quality. For one sample, (DrivingPOV3), the BD-rate value even drops to -50.63%.

 

[Creative Username]

AOMedia AV2 open video codec release nears, delivers around 40% bandwidth reduction


View attachment 8197426

ok but is it low-latency like opus, or...
in any case, total mpeg death