Programming thread

Splendid

Splendid

> Moderating KF for free
Retired Staff
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
Joined
Mar 11, 2015
This is a thread for programming. Here are some common programming questions:
Yes
Money, and also other reasons. Look, I'm tired and I'll write out something later, ok?
Python. Go with the highest numbered version available. If you must get into web programming right off the bat, then go with Javascript (because you don't have a choice,) and PHP. Be aware that both of these languages are rather...unique and promote some bad habits and I'm only recommending them because they're the fastest way to get started.

There, I'll write a better OP later. If I remember.

Let me start off with some topics guaranteed to piss people off so that the thread gains some traction:
  • For 90% of application programming, using a functional language is trying to force a square peg into a round hole.
  • The JVM is outdated and .NET will eventually replace it
  • The only reason to write production assembler code for x86-64 is if you're making drivers for something that doesn't support C.
  • Visual Studio >>> NetBeans
  • PHPStorm >>> NetBeans
  • Rust and C can't coexist long term. Either C will destroy rust like it's done with so many other languages, or Rust will finally force C into a niche.
  • The only Lisplike language that I've seen that seems decent is Racket.
 
Should learning programming satisfy a college's foreign language requirement?

No.
 
_01 said:
Should learning programming satisfy a college's foreign language requirement?

No.
Click to expand...
Foreign languages are dead. All hail the new Lingua Franca: English.
 
Splendid Meat Sticks said:
PHP. Be aware that both of these languages are rather...unique and promote some bad habits and I'm only recommending them because they're the fastest way to get started.
Click to expand...
PHP hasn't been the fastest way to get started in years. Probably approaching a decade by now.

Reason being: hipster designers started getting into low grade web development. Things like single page web apps that require 10:1 clientside:serverside code. They worked their asses off to make it easy to hit the ground running.

It's why things like jsfiddle are popular, or nodemon, or easy-to-deploy webservers for experimentation, like python, javascript and ruby all have. I mean, I'm sure there's something similar for PHP, but all the rapid development is focused on what the hipster webdevs are doing, which is Javascript nowadays.
Splendid Meat Sticks said:
For 90% of application programming, using a functional language is trying to force a square peg into a round hole.
Click to expand...
Depends on what you're doing. Well, and also depends on how you measure "90%".

90% of the total number of apps released? Yeah, probably not.

But if you're doing something that requires complex thinking, it's probably better to reserve as much of your brain power as possible for the problem at hand. Effort spent on plumbing is wasted.

Example: A project I'm working on involves getting users to collaborate on categorizing content. I'm trying to think of an algorithm that encourages users to contribute for the benefit of the group, without having any choke points. If the administration on the site have to settle disputes, that's less organic. It'd be neat to have a turnkey operation, where the rules of the site naturally encourage accurate results.

That sort of project is going to require extensive testing and tuning of the algorithm. It's essentially pure math. Anything that distracts from that will make testing the code (and making sure the theory is correct) that much more difficult.

These sorts of problems aren't all that rare actually. Any big site with a lot of users will want to experiment with crowd behavior.

Also, functional programming has properties that make scaling really easy.
Splendid Meat Sticks said:
The JVM is outdated and .NET will eventually replace it
Click to expand...
You think? I was more excited / optimistic about .NET because Mono was looking pretty cool. But I haven't heard anything new from that corner in awhile.

Are you talking about GUI stuff? Because encountering Java GUI stuff in this day and age makes me laugh.
Splendid Meat Sticks said:
Rust and C can't coexist long term. Either C will destroy rust like it's done with so many other languages, or Rust will finally force C into a niche.
Click to expand...
I think C has been in a niche role for awhile.

That is, C is almost exclusively used as either portable assembly, or as a glue language for extension libraries.

Though I don't know of any projects that use Rust either. Golang is a better candidate, I think. It's used for Docker.
Splendid Meat Sticks said:
The only Lisplike language that I've seen that seems decent is Racket.
Click to expand...
Racket is a Scheme implementation. Although the line between "implementation" and "separate language" is blurry in the Lisp world.

Lisp isn't a programming language, it's a building material. You go into a Lisp project expecting the line between language and the resulting software to be very, very blurry.

Like the concept of userscripts in browsers is a very Lisp-like construction, albeit not the most ambitious route to take.
 
Dude, I'm trying to drum up controversy and attract people by stirring up shit and you go and say reasonable things? *sigh*
 
Splendid Meat Sticks said:
Dude, I'm trying to drum up controversy and attract people by stirring up shit and you go and say reasonable things? *sigh*
Click to expand...
Heh, well I guess after awhile you get bored of nerd fights.

Let's see if we can stir some shit up:

What about tabs vs spaces?

Ooh, here's a good one: Objective C's dynamism is a huge boon to building UIs. A GUI built with Objective C is going to be better designed, more usable and just overall cooler than one built with C++, at the expense of execution speed. Example: nextstep and OS X.
 
  • Disagree
  • DRINK!
  • Islamic Content
  • Like
I'm gonna shamelessly tag people:
@CrunkLord420 @CIA Nigger @carltondanks @Give Her The D @AnOminous (?) @xxXDxx @LocalFireDept
Invite anyone else you know!

Marvin said:
What about tabs vs spaces?
Click to expand...
Statistically, StackOverflow's 2018 developer survey shows that developers that use spaces make more money, but I think this is mostly a relic of languages with much stricter whitespace rules like old school cobol where a comment is declared with a C in column 7, certain things can only be declared in columns 8-15, and the rest in 16-72.
Also, spaces suck and people who are insistent on them need to get off of Vim, suck it up, and pay $100 for a nicer editor like big boys and girls. Or if you're lucky, your language has a free and awesome IDE.

Marvin said:
Ooh, here's a good one: Objective C's dynamism is a huge boon to building UIs. A GUI built with Objective C is going to be better designed, more usable and just overall cooler than one built with C++, at the expense of execution speed. Example: nextstep and OS X.
Click to expand...
Isn't Apple itself trying to kill off OC in favor of Swift? Either way, anything Apple made after Jobs rejoined is shit so I just kinda hate it automatically.

Here's one for you: TCL and VB.NET are the best languages for building GUIs. Prove me wrong.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Give Her The D said:
Thanks.

Been trying to do Python for a little bit now. I'm just really exceptional in trying to come up with ideas, so I have no idea what to code. Help.
Click to expand...
Code something stupid and childish. Make it draw ASCII dicks or something.
Or just do the Rosetta Code challenges, some of those are OK. Of course, some of them are just painfully stupid and involve reimplementing some random sorting algorithm or whatever, or just boil down to importing a module and making some function calls, but it's there.

Is Python your first language?
 
lisp-programmers.jpg


Each of these is actually very funny. Well except for the Bill Nye one. Smalltalk doesn't deserve that level of cuckoldry.
Splendid Meat Sticks said:
Statistically, StackOverflow's 2018 developer survey shows that developers that use spaces make more money, but I think this is mostly a relic of languages with much stricter whitespace rules like old school cobol where a comment is declared with a C in column 7, certain things can only be declared in columns 8-15, and the rest in 16-72.
Also, spaces suck and people who are insistent on them need to get off of Vim, suck it up, and pay $100 for a nicer editor like big boys and girls. Or if you're lucky, your language has a free and awesome IDE.
Click to expand...
Spaces are important if you want your code to be readable. Spoiler alert: In the real world, actually being balls deep in an IDE isn't the only time when you need to read code.
Splendid Meat Sticks said:
Isn't Apple itself trying to kill off OC in favor of Swift? Either way, anything Apple made after Jobs rejoined is shit so I just kinda hate it automatically.
Click to expand...
Oh yeah, they're ditching Objective C. But Swift is just a nicer interface to the same underlying object model. They just ditched the C part of Objective C.
Splendid Meat Sticks said:
Here's one for you: TCL and VB.NET are the best languages for building GUIs. Prove me wrong.
Click to expand...
Toy GUIs maybe.

Ultimately if your GUI needs to do anything remotely complicated, you're going to need a real language underneath at some point. Not shell-for-tards (which is funny, because shell languages are for tards to begin with, so I guess that makes TCL a language-for-tards...-for-tards).

And VB has always been "javascript for secretaries".

The reason why Objective C is a better real language than C++ is because developing anything that touches the user is going to require constant improvement and testing.

You'll sit down your hipster designers in front of the code, and the quicker they can test shit and restart the code, the better the end result.

Though the GUI language niche has been taken over by javascript, so it's kind of an academic discussion at this point.
 
I've been writing a game engine in C++ in my spare time for like the past year. I've been experimenting with different libraries and I've even got it compiling with emscripten (transpiling C++/OpenGL into wasm/WebGL) which lets me embed it into standards compliant HTML5 browsers.
  • SDL_Renderer is bad
  • GLFW is better than SDL if you don't plan to use SDL_Renderer and just want the events/windowing
  • SDL_gpu is way better than SDL_Renderer (faster, more features, lets you use shaders/raw OpenGL contexts)
  • NanoVG is a good way to do vector graphics
  • Allegro is probably better than SDL for a more "full-feature" framework (Factorio uses Allegro)
    • note: no one is talking about compiling Allegro with emscripten
  • bgfx looks promising for 3D graphics (technically hardware accelerated 2D is just orthogonally projected 3D)
  • Box2D and Bullet are good for physics backends
  • Text and fonts are actually insanely complicated
  • imgui is good for an easy debug UI
 
CrunkLord420 said:
I've been writing a game engine in C++ in my spare time for like the past year. I've been experimenting with different libraries and I've even got it compiling with emscripten (transpiling C++/OpenGL into wasm/WebGL) which lets me embed it into standards compliant HTML5 browsers.
  • SDL_Renderer is bad
  • GLFW is better than SDL if you don't plan to use SDL_Renderer and just want the events/windowing
  • SDL_gpu is way better than SDL_Renderer (faster, more features, lets you use shaders/raw OpenGL contexts)
  • NanoVG is a good way to do vector graphics
  • Allegro is probably better than SDL for a more "full-feature" framework (Factorio uses Allegro)
    • note: no one is talking about compiling Allegro with emscripten
  • bgfx looks promising for 3D graphics (technically hardware accelerated 2D is just orthogonally projected 3D)
  • Box2D and Bullet are good for physics backends
  • Text and fonts are actually insanely complicated
  • imgui is good for an easy debug UI
Click to expand...
Unity exists you know.
 
CrunkLord420 said:
  • SDL_Renderer is bad
  • GLFW is better than SDL if you don't plan to use SDL_Renderer and just want the events/windowing
  • SDL_gpu is way better than SDL_Renderer (faster, more features, lets you use shaders/raw OpenGL contexts)
Click to expand...
Just 2d graphics, right?

I knew SDL 1.2 very well back in the day. I started trying to do stuff with 2.0 recently. What are the big differences? Mostly GPU stuff, I'm guessing?
CrunkLord420 said:
Text and fonts are actually insanely complicated
Click to expand...
This. It sneaks up on you how retarded font handling is on modern computers. And it never seems to get any better. Just wait five years from now and see if anything has improved. I guarantee you nothing will have changed.
Give Her The D said:
I love how ASP.NET is the prostitute. Nobody uses ASP.NET unless they're really, realllly drunk.
Click to expand...
Yeah, haha.

Also the thread about the munchkins molesting Dorothy reminded me of that meme. It always makes me laugh and it's what comes to mind when Erlang (and elixir) comes up.
 
  • Thunk-Provoking
  • Like
  • Disagree
Marvin said:
Just 2d graphics, right?

I knew SDL 1.2 very well back in the day. I started trying to do stuff with 2.0 recently. What are the big differences? Mostly GPU stuff, I'm guessing?

This. It sneaks up on you how exceptional font handling is on modern computers. And it never seems to get any better. Just wait five years from now and see if anything has improved. I guarantee you nothing will have changed.

Yeah, haha.

Also the thread about the munchkins molesting Dorothy reminded me of that meme. It always makes me laugh and it's what comes to mind when Erlang (and elixir) comes up.
Click to expand...
The biggest difference is they dropped support for a ton of 15 year old consoles and stuff. SDL2 still has the old software renderer as well as a hardware renderer option (DirectX/OpenGL), but is really limited and bad even when compared directly with the drop-in replacement library SDL_gpu. Though, apparently Nintendo Switch support was just added to the library if you can prove you have a developer contract.
 
CrunkLord420 said:
The biggest difference is they dropped support for a ton of 15 year old consoles and stuff. SDL2 still has the old software renderer as well as a hardware renderer option (DirectX/OpenGL), but is really limited and bad even when compared directly with the drop-in replacement library SDL_gpu. Though, apparently Nintendo Switch support was just added to the library if you can prove you have a developer contract.
Click to expand...
I'm thinking about maybe doing android games with SDL. Well, it's at the bottom of my todo list, anyway.
 
  • Thunk-Provoking
 
Marvin said:
It's why things like jsfiddle are popular, or nodemon, or easy-to-deploy webservers for experimentation, like python, javascript and ruby all have. I mean, I'm sure there's something similar for PHP, but all the rapid development is focused on what the hipster webdevs are doing, which is Javascript nowadays.
Click to expand...
PHP has some pretty good frameworks nowadays with deployment and VM tools surrounding them. The frameworks help eliminate a lot of the syntactic quirkiness and common security problems that used to plague it as well. The hipsters being busy off chasing shiny objects has almost helped it mature.

I used to work in an office downstairs from a coding academy. They would do 4-month classes and seemed to cycle to a new framework/language with each batch. They started with Ruby on Rails, moved to Node.js in the next one, and I think they're dicking around with TypeScript now.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
gagabobo1997 Sponsored by gagabobo1997
Post in thread 'AI Derangement Syndrome / Anti-AI artists / Pro-AI technocultists / AI "debate" communities'
gagabobo1997
1722796087620.png

Generative Artificial Intelligence​

Generative Artificial Intelligence (gAI, GenAI, AI Art, AI slop, etc.) is a relatively new technology that leverages advanced machine learning models to create original content, such as text, images, music, and code. Machine Learning and Artificial Intelligence research has been ongoing since the 1940s, with the first neural networks being developed in the 80s. In the 2010s, the first Generative AI models started coming out, with Generative Adversarial Networks (GANs) generating realistic images all the way back in 2014. In 2018, OpenAI released GPT-2, one of the first Language Models that wasn't completely retarded.

However, everything changed starting in 2020. Before then, gAI was mostly seen as a meme by the internet and the general public didn't know much about it. But when OpenAI released GPT-3 in 2020 it quickly became one of the biggest topics of discussion throughout the world. As the 2020's progressed and Image models were released, the most prominent being Stable Diffusion and MidJourney in 2022, people started realizing the power of gAI. Basically every tech company has been jumping on the AI hype train, and open source communities have been working day and night on their FOSS porn models.

That brings us to today, 2024 2025, where AI is becoming prevalent in almost every facet of our lives. As the decade progresses we will likely see more improvement and more things previously thought impossible, likely including man-made horrors beyond our comprehension. FOSS image models are better than they have ever been and with almost 3 years of people using them, some people are able to create images that are basically indistinguishable from human made art. That brings us to our first topic of discussion:


Anti-AI 'Artists'​

Artists, well known for often being one of the most insufferable communities on the internet, have in general not taken too kindly to generative AI. While there are some reasonable level headed artists, many feel like gAI is a soulless robotic threat to their livelihood. Most do not understand how gAI works, likening the training process to "theft". Of course, theft implies that the victim had something taken from them which isn't the case when an image is used in training, but I digress. Some examples of the misunderstanding/willful ignorance, also known as AI Derangement Syndrome (AIDS), of these artists:


1722806778342.jpeg
These Anti-AI artists (often called "antis") are also known for being quite violent, talking about their utter hatred for and drawing pictures of violent acts being committed towards AI users. This violence and hatred towards AI users (who they lovingly call AI bros) is a common theme.
1722806309694.png a
1722806385809.pnga
1722806475060.pngA
1722806568954.pnga
1722806609408.png
a
1722807345415.pngA, reply seemingly deleted before it could be archived. Thanks @Peregrinor for the archives.

And one of the most egregious examples of this violence is this post on X, where an artist posts an animation of them essentially torturing and murdering an AI user for the crime of using AI. The comments are very supportive too.

a
1722885068273.png
1722885112698.png

Antis often spout hypocritical arguments, like being for copyright and intellectual property (and even wanting to copyright styles) while also creating fanart and saying that its A-OK to pirate Adobe software (it is okay to do so though). It's safe to say that any anti that uses copyright as an argument to be against AI while also creating fanart of copyrighted characters either has no idea what they are talking about or is arguing in bad faith. I think this (a) reddit post explains the hypocrisy well.

Multiple artists who have adopted AI as apart of their workflow (or even just have played with AI) have been attacked by rabid antis. A few examples are:

Shadiversity-
Shad is a bit of a lolcow himself. Regardless, he's a pretty smart dude and makes good videos about swords and other weapons and is a published author. On the side apparently he makes art, and with the advent of AI has started making AI art. He's made a few videos about it now, including this very good video about how AI works and how it in fact does NOT steal art.

While that video got some mild backlash, the next video he made about it got more. In his video titled "A love letter to Ai art - you don't need to be afraid", he talks about how he uses AI and why he likes it.
This was the response to the video:
1722899447640.png

1722899461576.png

1722899474814.png

1722899497666.png

1722899509039.png

and those are just a few comments i found by sorting by new. here's the recommended videos when watching that one, you can see that a significant amount of them are anti-AI and/or anti-shadiversity:
1722899581201.png
Needless to say, his video did not make people very happy.

Ergojosh-
Ergojosh is apparently a respected artist YouTuber despite having fewer than a million subscribers. Most of his videos don't even reach 100k views, but people are absolutely melting down after he came out in favor of AI art. Unlike shad, he is clearly a very talented artist without AI, with the following picture being a sketch of his. Clearly a skilled man.
1722899795477.png
He uses AI throughout the drawing process and ends up with this final image:

1722900231531.png

I personally think it's a good picture. His community seemed to disagree though:
1722900300337.png

1722900314585.png

1722900416671.png

1722900464737.png

Here's the full video, archived in case he deletes it because of the backlash.


Adam Duff LUCIDPIXUL made a video defending him, then when everyone hated it, he took it down and put up a new video running damage control.
The original video doesn't seem to be archived anywhere, but here's a clip that was managed to be saved from reddit:
Below is a clip from reddit, but the whole video was found and uploaded here.



Corridor Digital-
Corridor Digital, a well known CG studio, released a short project that used AI. While it got alot of love, it also had plenty of backlash at the time and still gets negative comments constantly. The video looks pretty neat despite the errors, but as with ergojosh's cool picture, some people disagree:


The video in question

1722901169701.png

1722901180123.png

1722901203098.png

1722901216046.png

1722901229079.png

And those are just some of the major examples. You can find many more examples of smaller artists being attacked for their use of AI on X and Reddit.


Cara.app and the Cara Discord​

Cara is an "AI-free" art sharing social network that launched in mid-2023 and blew up in popularity in mid-2024 after Meta's policy change announcement.

Notably the Cara Discord is one of the places that Moepi (who will be discussed later) has been banned from due to his antagonism toward other users, and the Glaze team in particular.

Before it blew up, Cara was known for providing a web-based Glaze interface ("CaraGlaze") that was popular among its userbase. Unfortunately, Glaze is an inefficient and expensive pile of crap, so they had to take it down when the site grew. Previously Cara also utilized the Hive image scanner to detect AI images (we all know how well those work); that also became too expensive to continue doing. As a result, people are uploading AI art to Cara just to troll at this point.


Due to poor efficiency and the massive influx of users, Cara wracked up over $90,000 in expenses.
1722883857677.png
Zhang is also involved in an ongoing lolsuit, which is discussed a little more later.

​

Glaze/Nightshade/Ben Zhao's personality cult
​
Glaze and Nightshade are tools developed by a research team at the University of Chicago led by Professor Ben Y. Zhao. The purpose of the tools is to disrupt the training of AI models, either by making an image "invisible" to the AI during training (Glaze), or destroying the AI model entirely (Nightshade). Unfortunately, neither tool is particularly good at its job. They are not only bad at what they are supposed to do, but they also use gAI to apply the perturbations designed to attack the models, using existing variants of standard image models. Not only that, but they take as much energy/computational resources as image generation itself! So basically everything they accuse AI prompters of doing, they do themselves.

There's also the fact that most AI datasets are in the order of BILLIONS of images. Even if you got 10,000 artists to glaze 100 of their artworks each, that's only 1 million images or about 0.01% of the LAION-5B dataset. But good luck getting that many artists to use glaze, most can't even run it. Spy lab, a private security company that focuses on machine learning, posted a complete and brutal takedown of glaze software.

At its initial release, Glaze was criticized for violating the GPL, despite being billed as a tool to "protect" copyright.

In return for its abysmal level of "protection", Glaze is notorious for introducing horrible artifacts to images. Some paranoid artists have taken to using Glaze on the final version of works they send to clients.


1723150445134.png

1723149294253.png


This went about as well as you'd expect.

1722813993923.png

I, for one, would be glad to pay $500 for denatured artwork. What about you?

Despite being the Director of Graduate Studies at his university, Ben Zhao is notorious for his unprofessional behavior and hostile attitude toward "AI bros" and other researchers. Perhaps the best example of this behavior was his constant shitting on Nicholas Carlini:
1723150387228.png

1723150413807.png

He also claims "AI bros" are using Glaze (where?):

1723150471951.png



In the fall of 2023, Ben Zhao announced Nightshade, a tool to produce poisoned images which would destroy an entire model if trained on.

1723150531876.png
Is this actually legal? Ben Zhao sure thinks it is!

1723150607033.png

Unfortunately neither Ben Zhao nor his orbiters live in reality, since a company he shilled Nightshade to apparently decided against using it (screenshot from Spring 2024).

1723150642701.png

It's important to remember that anti-AI artists have an absolutely unshakable faith in Glaze and whatever other garbage the Glaze team pumps out:

1723150673826.png

In fact, I wonder who's in the banner of r/artisthate:

1723150706254.png

Whatever new information or research comes out only makes Glaze stronger. All criticism is merely a test of their faith in Glaze.


Also worth mentioning is Nullbuldge, a gay furry hacking group that compromised a popular AI image generation tool. In the end it was mostly a nothingburger, but I encourage you to check out the linked post that exposes them.


Pro-AI techno-optimists cultists (and others)​

While the antis are surely the most vocal and retarded community to come from all of this, on the other side of the spectrum there's a community of people known as "Effective Accelerationists", or "e/acc" for short. e/acc is a techno-optimist movement who's goal as stated by one of the movement's founders is to "climb the Kardashev gradient", referencing the pop-sci concept known as the Kardashev scale. Basically they want to accelerate technology to the point where we are all space robots who use up all the resources in the universe. Wikipedia puts it this way: "The founders of the movement see it as rooted in Jeremy England's (a literal jewish rabbi) theory on the origin of life, which is focused on entropy and thermodynamics. According to them, the universe aims to increase entropy, and life is a way of increasing it. By spreading life throughout the universe and making life use up ever increasing amounts of energy, the universe's purpose would thus be fulfilled."

The start of the movement is credited to a newsletter published by four X users, @BasedBeffJezos, @bayeslord, @zestular and @creatine_cycle.

While these people aren't entirely wrong about everything, they are basically Elon Musk dickriding LARPers. I'll post some of the more egregiously retarded tweets they've made, you can also read their substack for more information on their theories.

1722886423821.png

1722886597888.pngwtf does this even mean
1722886820131.png
mathematicians need to drop everything and work on the next AI chatbot!

These people aren't exactly funny most of the time, so I don't want to fill the thread up with their delusions. I implore everyone to skim their profiles at least though.

There's another website known as LessWrong, ran by Eliezer Schlomo Yudkowsky, that is a hive of this e/acc technocultist "philosophy." They are accredited with creating the 'rokos basilisk' thought experiment, which basically theorizes that when AI becomes an all powerful god it will eternally torture people who didn't actively help in it's creation. So to avoid technoHELL these people donate their money to AI research orgs (that already have billions of dollars.)
I recommend checking out the linked thread on Eliezer and LessWrong, lots of lols to be had.

LLM Induced Cyberpsychosis
​
Another AI Derangement phenomenon that has been noted recently are cases of retards and schizophrenics using language models such as ChatGPT to continuously feed into their delusions. These cases usually have similar themes of the user believing that their AI is sentient, or that it is providing them with some hidden knowledge. The subreddits r/ChatGPT and r/ArtificialSentience are both great places to visit to see example of such specimen.

A few months ago, this (A) post went viral, wherein a Reddit poster talks about how their partner has 'ChatGPT induced psychosis' from talking to ChatGPT.

1753920452518.webp
Scary stuff!

You can find a lot of good stuff by searching specific keywords on these subreddits, like "resonance", "spiral", "recursion", and other terms. The AI really seems to like to use these terms when gaslighting schizophrenics, so it's a common theme. A few examples:
1753920590106.webp
1753920614843.webp
1753920681542.webp
1753920804920.webp
These people genuinely need help tbh. Many of them genuinely believe that their AI assistant is sentient.

There have also been articles written about this phenomenon:
1753920732496.webp
L A

Very fascinating stuff overall, and one of my personal favorite forms of AI Derangement out there. It's only a matter of time before people are killing themselves or others because their ChatGPT told them that doing so will break them out of the Alpha Resonance Spiral and let them into the real world or something.

4chan /g/ AI generals​
4chan's /g/ board is the place to go on the website for anything AI that isn't pornographic. However, because the AI discussion on there is usually delegated to general threads they have devolved into schizophrenic namefag hugboxes. For now I would like to focus on /aicg/- AI Chatbot General. It calls itself "A general dedicated to the discussion and development of AI chatbots", however it is mostly retards addicted to jerking off to their AI waifus that they can't run on their own PCs so they have to use Proxies, other anons who provide the stolen keys to use corporate models.

Thankfully, /aicg/ has a dedicated lore/history page. It showcases everything important that has happened on the general. Below is a snippet of march of this year.
1722901813153.png
There are seemingly THOUSANDS of entries in the lore page. There is alot of retarded drama around specific proxy owners, such as "the Jew", "pepsi", "drago", and many others.
/aicg/, /sdg/, /ldg/, and /lmg/ are probably full of untapped entertaining drama. I've spent some time personally on /sdg/, and there are common name/avatarfags who everyone either hates or loves. Sadly, with the new Flux model coming out that's generally better than stable diffusion, /sdg/ seems to have been dying down in terms of juicy drama.
This is something that will take longer to research and report on, but I haven't seen these generals talked about much at all on the farms. Hopefully there's some kiwis who have paid more attention to the generals and can provide more insight.


AI 'debate' communities
​
There are three subreddits who exist in a trifecta of sorts, r/DefendingAiArt (DAA)- a Pro-AI subreddit, r/ArtistHate (AH)- a Pro-Artist Anti-AI subreddit , and r/AiWars (AIW)- the place where users of both subreddits fight in the battlefield of intellectual debate retarded flamewars.

It all started on December 18 2022 when DAA and AIW were created, the former being a self-described echochamber/safespace for pro-AI art redditors to commune, and the latter being a subreddit for debate regarding AI art. Both are moderated by the same people, but they take a very laissez-faire approach to moderating AIW. Four days later, AH was created. AH describes itself as "a pro-artist subreddit made to showcase, prove and expose increasing hate against artist and art hobbyists all over the internet and the world for reasons beyond us, and also show our opposition against it by sharing news, opinions and sources with each other."

These subreddits have been at war for almost two years at this point, and the concentrated autism has spawned a few notable individuals. However, the research into these communities is still very much a work in progress. There is more to learn. The following is what information we currently have on a few notable retards:


ItzMoepi​
Much of this info is from this post by @Runch. Big thanks to him. Anything I directly steal from that post will be in a quote box. Please check out his posts for more in depth information.
Moepi (itzmoepi/Tenpi/imtenpi/P14y3r) is a 22-year-old male from New York who makes chiptune music, is a prolific web developer, dabbling artist, and really really REALLY hates AI. Spends all day every day sperging out on Reddit and Twitter about how harmful it is. Has performed extremely autistic long-form studies of ways artists can add noise to their images to make them un-scrapable for AI art...methods that no artist would ever use because of how destructive it is to the entire point of making art in the first place.

He is also obsessed with Genshin Impact and the lolicon character Klee, his most common avatar online. I defer to Null's judgement on wielding the p-word carelessly, so I'll just describe it as it is: on art sites he has favorited drawings of naked anime children.
Click to expand...
Moepi is/was a moderator of AH. Before he went full DFE and tried to stop being a sperg on reddit, he would spend HOURS arguing on both AIW and AH, and would create many reddit polls to try to gauge opinions on AI. Of course, the polls are meaningless and Moepi himself would even actively change the results because he didn't like the outcomes. Sadly most of these are lost and likely not archived. Below is one of the only examples we currently have.

1722815392469.pnga
Moepi is, perhaps unsurprisingly, a lolicon. His pixiv bookmark list had drawings of naked children. Below is him comforting another user who is worried that liking drawings of little girls makes him a creep.
1722815636903.pnga

Moepi has created page after page of infographics about methods to defeat AI art, representing hours of work and study which is of absolutely no use to anyone at all. Seriously, if you go to his site https://rgbwatermark.net/ and click on the question mark, you can scroll for 10 minutes as he examines various ways to corrupt pictures of lolicons so that AI might not be able to scrape them properly. Some examples:​
Click to expand...
1722817947224.jpeg1722817979634.jpeg1722818052867.jpeg

Here is all the information gathered by @Runch.
https://twitter.com/itzmoepi
https://www.reddit.com/user/itzmoepi/ (https://archive.ph/WnTzt)
https://www.deviantart.com/itzmoepi
https://www.youtube.com/@MoepiMusic
https://soundcloud.com/itzmoepi
https://github.com/Tenpi (https://archive.ph/yNKqJ)
https://rgbwatermark.net/ (https://archive.ph/jmdhP)
https://www.pixiv.net/users/35096162

Anti-AI "artwork:" https://www.pixiv.net/en/artworks/110160935 (https://archive.ph/xeeAU)

Discord visible in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SK-YPkRRj1s (now private), which includes other Discord icons the user is a member of, if anyone is able to sleuth these.

Tenpi Land.png

Discord user Tenpi#7920 (in server named Tenpi Land)
Also, at 5:57 visibly logged into Reddit as imtenpi

https://www.google.com/search?q="imtenpi" results in a thread from deleted Reddit user imtenpi:
https://www.reddit.com/r/appleswap/comments/qbt2vs/usany_h_paypal_w_m1_macbook_pro_16gb_512gb/

Github creations, from https://github.com/Tenpi (https://archive.ph/yNKqJ):
Hi, I am a web developer that has made a couple of apps and websites.

My Apps:
Music Player, music player with reversing, time stretching, and pitch shifting effects.
Photo Viewer, photo viewer with resizing/color correction effects.
Video Player, video player with reversing and time stretching effects.
Waifu2x GUI, upscales images/videos.
Image Compressor, compresses and resizing images/gifs.
RGBWatermark, a rainbow watermarking tool.

My Websites:
Moebooru.moe, an image board website organized by tags.
Cuteanime.moe, a website to learn japanese by watching anime.
Cutemanga.moe, a website to learn japanese by reading manga.
Kisaragi.moe, website for my discord bot.

Other:
Kisaragi, a discord bot with 300+ commands.
Click to expand...
Bitcoin wallet, from an archive of one of the Github sites: 3AkW6zDjnuGkecGXdVmtNSRQrVcyZcobBx

https://stackoverflow.com/users/11762396/tenpi (https://archive.ph/lbClw)

Student at Binghamton University [New York]
Click to expand...
https://support.discord.com/hc/en-us/profiles/5737648757-Tenpi (https://archive.ph/1VIUd)

https://www.fiverr.com/imtenpi/make-a-youtube-thumbnail (https://archive.ph/ra1PV)

I like anime/manga and video games. I'm decent at using Photoshop.
Click to expand...
https://myanimelist.net/profile/Tenpi (https://archive.ph/4BKuX)
Gender: Male
Birthday: Jul 3, 2001
Location: New York
Hi! I enjoy watching anime.
My favorite genre is moe slice of life. Aka cute girls doing cute things.
Click to expand...
Forum posts: https://myanimelist.net/forum/search?u=Tenpi&q=&uloc=1&loc=-1 (https://archive.ph/kPmkY)
https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1682587&msgid=52992494 (https://archive.ph/cAMzX)
Nov 10, 2017:
I just joined this site, cool knowing it has a forum. I'll try to be as active as I can :)

I have been watching anime for a few years now, the first one I saw (excluding kid shows such as Pokemon and Digimon) was Higashi no Eden. I am also studying the Japanese language a bit, hopefully in a few years I can understand what the characters say without subs. I'm currently a junior in high school and am from New York.

Anyway, nice to meet everyone.He has good opsec and is as of yet undoxed. There's a Lemmy instance And Wanderer is there, so that might be a good place to look for more information.
Click to expand...
Former suspended Reddit username: P14y3r
https://www.reddit.com/r/artbusiness/comments/122tjca/rgb_watermark_tool/ (https://archive.ph/lSqna)
("I" created this site)

It can be difficult to find posts from a suspended account, but for example:
https://old.reddit.com/r/ArtistHate/comments/13qvijs/image_encryption/

In more recent news, Moepi claims to be retiring for good. But that's not all, user @MagneticTowels has done research into Moepi's identity and presents this alleged photo of him:
1729615792297.png


WonderfulWanderer777​
WonderfulWanderer777 is a mod of AH who's unhinged behavior has caught many peoples attention. He usually makes dozens of posts/comments a day, all about how AI bros are evil or stupid or whatever. There's a discord but I refuse to download and use that satanic platform so some other brave kiwi will have to do the digging.


DissuadedPrompter / DissuadedBin​
DissuadedPrompter may be somehow even more unhinged than Moepi. AIW has some of the most lax moderation on reddit, and he somehow got himself banned from it. However his alt, DissuadedBin is still up and trolling. He's made some very suspicious comments about porn/CSAM and while I don't want to make any baseless accusations, from my time observing him on AIW I'd wager that he's probably got some skeletons in his closet.
1722820268293.pnga

Lolsuits​
As with any good internet community, there have been a few lolsuits filed. The most important now would be Getty Images v. Stability AI and Zhang v. Google LLC, with the former having Getty Images accusing Stability AI of using 12 million of its images without consent and the latter having Jingna Zhang and Sarah Andersen accusing google of using their copyrighted works to train its image generator. I'm not too well versed in law stuff, so hopefully a kiwi lawyer can give their two cents on the suits.

ℹ️ AI technology advances quickly. This OP may not be entirely up to date at all times.

Huge thanks to @Runch and @The Thinking Abacus for helping immensely with writing and proofreading this OP! Please check out Abacus's AI art seething general thread and Runch's posts about Moepi!
Back
Top Bottom