RTS (Real-time Strategy) General - Gookclick anon can't find us here.

  • 🔧 At about Midnight EST I am going to completely fuck up the site trying to fix something.
Love/Hate relationship, the general quality of life improvements make it impossible for me to go back to the first game, but at the same time the state in which the game was left in after years of half-assed patches that removed fun things, Sega's retarded decision to curb modding with severe restrictions and absolute nightmare which is 4vs4 games still leave a bit of mark.
They didn't even bother to give the USA a proper heavy tank when they were added, instead adding that to a specific DLC commander released later as part of their GaaS monetization of MP/skirmish.

Yes, you all heard that right, they added gacha random drop mechanics to a fucking RTS game if you wanted to unlock special units and abilities. What, you thought skin packs for your vehicles was the lowest they would go?

I actually wound up looking at the CoH 3 "Modding Forum" Relic had set up not long after launch and it was so empty of any content or moderation there was an actual old-school forum ad-spamming bot post still up.

Also, I wouldn't blame SEGA for the modding since SEGA is also responsible for the Total War games, and those continue to be extremely mod-friendly. No, it was probably Relic's call, same as it was when it came to DoW 2.
 
Suprisingly, no mention of Stronghold Crusaders. Its getting a definitive edition this summer

It has women now.
If it's anything like base Strongholds definitive edition I'll keep my money. It has AI smoothed graphics that looked horrible, there were constant visual glitches, and several of the iconic little animations were not present. Ended up hitting the refund

The old HD editions from the 2010s are perfectly good versions to my knowledge though
 
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Also, I wouldn't blame SEGA for the modding since SEGA is also responsible for the Total War games, and those continue to be extremely mod-friendly. No, it was probably Relic's call, same as it was when it came to DoW 2.
No, it was deliberate choice made by Sega and imposed on Relic so that if anyone attempts to do something with the game files it fucking dies, the limitations that were enforced by Sega demand that you can't tinker with the game in a meaningful matter, that's why not a single mod can add anything beyond icons, sound files and Frankenstein monster models cobbled from already existing ones.
 
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No, it was deliberate choice made by Sega and imposed on Relic so that if anyone attempts to do something with the game files it fucking dies, the limitations that were enforced by Sega demand that you can't tinker with the game in a meaningful matter, that's why not a single mod can add anything beyond icons, sound files and Frankenstein monster models cobbled from already existing ones.
Unless you've got evidence I'm just going to point to Dawn of War 2 (released 2009, CoH 2 2013) and its massively restricted modding potential compared to DoW 1 and assume it was Relic just doubling-down.
 
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Unless you've got evidence I'm just going to point to Dawn of War 2 (released 2009, CoH 2 2013) and its massively restricted modding potential compared to DoW 1 and assume it was Relic just doubling-down.
Yeah given how other games like ES2, TWW or even like Two-Point Hospital all supported modding, I don't see how this is a publisher-wide mandate. This is strictly a Relic self-own.
 
SC Broodwar made it impossible for any RTS game to be considered successful ever again. Not because a better game cannot be made, but because after BW every RTS “needs” to break into mainstream e-sports. Which is not going to happen. Many of these games have more people discussing potential competitive scene than the actual gameplay. Don’t get me wrong, I used to love watching KESPA events for BW and later SC2 back in college but it seems like many people left in the scene are more into watching streams than playing actual game. It seems like a solid single player campaign or fucking around with your friends in LAN party/hosted game are no longer things that matter much.
Up until SC broodwar I had been able to complete every game I set my mind to on very hard. This game I couldn't do the very last mission on very hard. I just wasn't nearly fast enough.
 
It has women now.
stronghold.webp
 
Up until SC broodwar I had been able to complete every game I set my mind to on very hard. This game I couldn't do the very last mission on very hard. I just wasn't nearly fast enough.
did Starcraft 1 even had difficulty options? i was always under the impression that it had only one
 
Oh boy, I can shill Beyond All Reason!
  • Started life as one of the many Spring Total Annihilation clones and somehow escaped that purgatory of weird jank into a solid game
  • Free and extremely frequently updated (but not absurd sized updates, this is a positive). I've played with my friends in the morning and evening and had to update. GPLv2 for the autists that care
  • Defaults are 2k max units per player
  • Has 2 PvE modes for getting friends into the game/when you don't want to get sweaty
  • Tons of convenience when manipulating units to avoid being a gookclicker. Shift to queue up everything
  • Solid AIs
  • Server browser, not matchmaking. People seem to like to play 8v8s the most which means that your suckage can be offset

I had experimented with Spring:RTS and all those games including the chicken one. Last time I touched one was probably when Supreme Commander 2 went on sale.

Anyway I checked Beyond All Reason out due to your post. Installed it with flatpack on Nobara and I didn't have to do anything at all to make it run, Played that fucker until past 5am. Gonna try and get some time in today on it too because I am so pissed I couldn't beat the mission. I was doing like mission 5 or so of the scenarios. I had no problems with any of the previous ones although I took a long time. But this one they swamped me a few times before I got a handle on setting up heavy plasma and such on the ridgelines. Best I could do last night was stale mate them by building 2 nukes and just peppering them, but after having lost the commander and didn't even know I could upgrade the metal extractors.

But this is the kind of game I kind of hate to play PVP. It's more fun for me to play as a tower defense than trying to achieve 300APM like a Starcraft Tourney.
 
I had experimented with Spring:RTS and all those games including the chicken one. Last time I touched one was probably when Supreme Commander 2 went on sale.

Anyway I checked Beyond All Reason out due to your post. Installed it with flatpack on Nobara and I didn't have to do anything at all to make it run, Played that fucker until past 5am. Gonna try and get some time in today on it too because I am so pissed I couldn't beat the mission. I was doing like mission 5 or so of the scenarios. I had no problems with any of the previous ones although I took a long time. But this one they swamped me a few times before I got a handle on setting up heavy plasma and such on the ridgelines. Best I could do last night was stale mate them by building 2 nukes and just peppering them, but after having lost the commander and didn't even know I could upgrade the metal extractors.

But this is the kind of game I kind of hate to play PVP. It's more fun for me to play as a tower defense than trying to achieve 300APM like a Starcraft Tourney.
Nothing wrong with some scavs and raptors - I'm in the same boat of not liking multiplayer, however when you're comfortable, do give multiplayer a shot. Being in the backline of an 8v8 is something that isn't in a lot of strategy games, where your goal is to boost your teammates without worrying about maxxing out APM
 
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Btw Tempest rising is alowed to scrape the info from your PC due to their policy agreement so they can sell it to the third party. Other games do it too no doubt so its probably not a big deal, still gay, but just a heads up if thats something you are worried about.

Screenshot_20250427_173324_com.google.android.youtube.webp
 
Btw Tempest rising is alowed to scrape the info from your PC due to their policy agreement so they can sell it to the third party. Other games do it too no doubt so its probably not a big deal, still gay, but just a heads up if thats something you are worried about.

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Apparently that's just part of the usual anti-cheat stuff every MP-capable game has these days.
 
I've been playing The Great War: Western Front and I really don't think it's a bad game, but I do think it suffers from balancing issues that, since it was abandoned, will never be resolved except possibly by modders.

The thing about it is that it is such a weird style of warfare to wrap your head around that it takes time to just get a sense of how to do things - how the fuck do I win - and in the meanwhile I can't tell what's badly balanced versus just me not understanding it properly.

I think a large chunk of the hate it got came from people going in demanding that it be something that it never claimed to be (Total War). The graphics aren't exactly pretty and they do have a cartoonishness that's accidental, but the UI, the constant use of (very boring) WW1 History Channel style footage, paintings and propaganda posters and quotes everywhere, all shows it as a very sincere labor of love. It failed to deliver a few gimmick features (oh my god all the shell holes stay the same from fight to fight) that don't matter IRL, but mattered to people that bought it thinking that it matters. The mission campaign is too easy and it lacks pizzazz in its presentation, but I found it fun and worth the price of entry on sale; I do think the campaign really needs to have more of the mechanics in it and a smaller-scale introduction to the grand campaign would be helpful.

I think the biggest balancing issue is that support (artillery bombardments, support weapons, anything) is just too fucking expensive. It goes down too damn fast and the ratio of infantry you can put out to a single goddamn machine gun is insane.

My other complaints mostly revolve around:
The shitass star system for taking provinces
The tech tree being boring (not bad, necessarily, just boring, compare it to a Total War game and you see how juvenile and Flash Game like the theming of techs is, it's the difference between a game where you invent "percussion caps" versus "improved muskets," know what I mean?)
Air works mechanically, but I kind of feel like it would have been better just straight up ripping off Steel Division
Lack (understandable for a first game) of underground complexes
The tanks are kind of weird?

The way combat goes, basically, only trenches are persistent and trenches, artillery, support etc. is all placed before battle. This is very important because, while you can reinforce tanks, infantry and call air missions during battles, the gameplay revolves around trenches - you basically can't do shit outside of a trench as infantry, even unentrenched infantry trading blows slaughter each other shockingly fast - and so if you don't plan out adequate trench lines, you will die. You cannot spam your way out of it, you will fucking die (as it should be).

So the whole point of this crap is how to take a trench when taking trenches is basically impossible. You've got, effectively, four "tools" (besides the static machine guns/mortars) with little nuances: infantry (with variations), heavy artillery, light artillery, siege artillery, tanks and aircraft, and all of the latter is there to facilitate getting your infantry into the enemy trench. Heavy artillery basically exists to destroy shit: bombardments and gas attacks that kill men and destroy materiel. Light artillery basically exists to keep your troops alive on the advance, all of it (suppression, smoke and rolling barrages) are just different ways of silencing enemy guns for long enough for you to hop in the trench with them. Siege artillery is heavy artillery on steroids and (very importantly) can be used in pre-bombardment to destroy trenches, which (remember, the trench network can't be expanded when combat starts) is devastating, as is undermining their lines. Then aircraft are doing a pseudo-Steel Division/Wargame thing.

Tanks are accurate, so they're not SUPER fast (although I think still faster than real life) and they come in realistic male, female or hermaphrodite variants. They fall into the realistic category of being super fragile, but keep your distance and infantry can't do shit, so they can run amok in the rear line if you micro them. It turns out that the point of males is to be tank destroyers and bunker busters, they kill shit that artillery just can't deal with. Females are there to be a mobile machine gun. What's weird about it, though, is that they feel much more effective as a defensive weapon, kiting attacking infantry that are out of range of your defensive guns.

This isn't really what tanks were for, though. The problem is partially that tanks go down a little too fast to machine guns, the very thing they were designed to counter, and the game just doesn't really depict early tank tactics. A tank's primary function was not to be a fighting platform itself but to essentially be to trench warfare what a battering ram or siege tower was to castle sieges. It is a giant shell that could both carry a platoon inside (like an armored personnel carrier) and provide a moving shield for men clustered directly behind it. In muddy conditions they'd have a spool of duckboard that they would unwind, making roads that allowed infantry to advance much faster. What the game uses light artillery for (negating the advantage of machine guns) is what tanks were really meant to excel at.

You throw in some other fuckery. Communication trenches were designed to facilitate single runners delivering messages, but were not practical to assault or to deploy troops through; the game (which chooses to depict only the fighting aspect of trenches, field hospitals, living quarters and such are presumably in the rear) presents them as non-fighting roads between your lines, but they're just as much roads for the enemy, and the most important principle of the game is to never let the enemy get in your trench, as doing so completely negates that powerful defensive advantage. Now, it can still make sense; a blockhouse should be directly connected to the trenches it supports, for example. It's just, like the tanks, an odd choice and most players don't really use them.

What pisses in my Coke is that you have to fight the same battle several times to take a province, and it doesn't make sense realistically or in the in-game context. I took a trench, and then did what, fucking left it? I feel like it's an easy fix, too. If the maps were long and vertical, with multiple command trenches and even interesting support areas to take, you could have a single map with potential for back-and-forth and it would capture some of the human side of what made these places interesting. Verdun, for example, has four stars, meaning it takes four separate battles, on the same terrain, to capture it... assuming you win every time. And winning is defined, in game, as a total blowout victory where you took literally everything.

If a map is just extended deeper, stacked, you could still have it be the case that pushing back the enemy pretty much does depend on several rounds of combat, because there simply is not enough time, manpower, materiel or range on your artillery to actually get that far in. Defense in depth. But you could have full persistence and still have the battle take place over different ground as one side advances deeper. Define combat by the border, not the province, likewise to make that clear.


TLDR game's okay, I like it and have fun with it, but you can tell that it's a kind of half-baked first try; because of that, it will never get a sequel like other niche first-try games.
 
I hope it has lots of QoL improvements, because I tried to get into Stronghold Crusaders but it felt so backwards, clunky, compared to other old games like Age of Empires II.
It's a 20 yr old game with minor updates. They keep shitting out reprints of their old games instead of making a new one.
 
TLDR game's okay, I like it and have fun with it, but you can tell that it's a kind of half-baked first try; because of that, it will never get a sequel like other niche first-try games.
Yeah, that was kinda my impression, but as someone who is sort of familiar with WW1, they really goofed up. Cannon-armed tanks could and did direct-fire into trenches if they got close enough, and the British even had the Gun Carrier Mark I, arguably the world's first SPG. There's also a dire lack of non-emplaced MG's with squad weapons like the Vickers and Chachaut notoriously absent. And of course you need special infantry to grenade enemy trench lines, as if normal infantry didn't carry grenades explicitly for that, and was the reason why barbed wire existed: not to keep them from getting into your trench but to keep them out of grenade range. There's also the fact that light field artillery should tear apart infantry in the open instead of merely suppressing them, as the entire reason soldiers dug trenches was to get away from light field guns, with heavy guns only brought in later in desperation once it became clear that no realistic amount of light field gun fire alone could displace dug-in infantry.
 
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