Megathread SRS and GRS surgeons and associated horrors - the medical community of experimental surgeons, the secret community of home butchers

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@Thomas Eugene Paris I’m sure you know this but aneuploidies are literally the biggest cause of genetic abnormalities, with errors in maternal meiosis by far, the biggest factor and causing over 90 percent of aneuploidies. Errors in paternal meiosis are responsible for the rest. And yes, aneuploidies are the biggest cause of de novo mutations

(Plain talk for the general audience: an error in the division of cells that causes and oopsie, leading to a tard baby)

Statistically, autosomal trisomies are the most likely to occur, followed by monosomy X triploidy and lastly, tetraploidy, with chromosome 16 being the common trisomy, followed by chromosome 22 and 21

(nullisomy is also a thing, so there’s four types of aneuplodies in all)

I don’t know how much you know about genetics and I don’t want to assume, but for the non medfags, the only three viable autosomal aneuploidies are DS, Edward’s and Patau syndrome. The other AA’s all result in abortions within the first few weeks of pregnancy.

@~nogger~ I get what you’re saying and I respect it but I wasn’t talking about those conditions from a uterine transplant perspective. I was talking about the actual health issues associated with those disorders and why they do need to be looked after as medical conditions.

Turner’s syndrome results in infertility and there’s literally no literature talking about uterus transplants in that population. Not sure why you think all of these conditions means a uterine transplant is an option? You seem kind of obsessed about this uterine transplant thing being a reality for every single one of the conditions you’ve listed, without fully understanding what those conditions mean as it pertains to health risks, health issues, and living with said conditions, and despite being told by several people who their shit, why it can’t occur in troons and so on.

Or am I mistaken and are you just arguing that Klinefelter results in troonism, because that only affects men. Like how Turners can only effect females. Klinefelter results in XXY, which is still considered male. And guess what, they’re all pretty much infertile. Like DS
 
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@~nogger~
It's the other way around troonism is sometimes linked to abnormal Karyotype and even if it's not, there is something off with tomboys and girly boys who get socially designated by peers, parents and, most importantly, doctors for troonery. The latter may very well be some kind of partial androgen insensitivity if it's not outright klinefelter or w/e. But nothing should ever warrant any troon surgery on anybody.

Where are you getting the data that today's "trans kids" are in any way medically unremarkable?
 
Turner’s syndrome results in infertility and there’s literally no literature talking about uterus transplants in that population. Not sure why you think all of these conditions means a uterine transplant is an option? You seem kind of obsessed about this uterine transplant thing being a reality for every single one of the conditions you’ve listed.
I'm pretty sure I didn't say it's an option for klinefelter or turner syndrome. The main point was that I fail to see why there wouldn't be attempts to expand this to XY with complete androgen insens because there isn't much phentypal difference to Müllerian agenesis, the rest was hyperbole, sure. That was just meant illustrative to the expansion of this whole fitting a peg into a square ideology behind it all.
Where are you getting the data that today's "trans kids" are in any way medically unremarkable?
We should really have data on that, tho that's not exactly what I said or at least meant. But yes, I assumed that there are kids who probably don't have much going on besides the a-typical behavior, however that comes about.
You could also ask, if the topic was another:
Where are you getting the data that doday's "gay people" are in any way medically unremarable?
(They probably aren't actually but nobody really knows what to look for - it's all just behavior.
I mean all that "gay gene" or "gay-face" stuff lead to nowhere. thankfully?) Dunno if that further obstructs or clarifies what I meant here.
 
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@~nogger~


Where are you getting the data that today's "trans kids" are in any way medically unremarkable?
Funny you should say that

Results: Karyotypes of 368 transsexual individuals (251 male-to-female, 117 female-to-male) are described. Normal findings were found in 97.55%. Prevalence of abnormal karyotypes was 3.19% among male-to-female, and 0.85% among female-to-male transsexuals

Nine karyotypes showed variations; Klinefelter syndrome was confirmed in three persons, whereas others displayed autosomal aberrations.

Or did you mean medically messed up in another way like brain damage? If i misunderstand, I apologize

@~nogger~ thanks for clarifying, seriously. But the medical issues in those syndromes are addressed, if there’s a problem to address.

You also said: And these AIS and MRKH peeps arent helped with any of that by getting neo vaginas and unterine transplants either

XY karyotype is still male even in CAIS. And yes, it does cause infertility and uterine txs are sometimes done, but this is also novel stuff and uterine txs are not being handed out like candy. Although…girls with Swyer syndrome have an XY chromosomal makeup and have fully functioning vaginas but the uterus needs hormonal therapy to develop. Do not mistake it for CAIS, they are two distinct conditions.

CAIS affects between 1/20000 and 1/90000th of the population. Again, very rare

I can see where you’re going with this and honestly, only time will tell what will happen with science

My general motto is: the more you know, the less you really know.

ETA: AIS has different variations. There’s complete, partial and mild.

In CAIS
  • The body does not respond to androgen at all.
  • The penis and other male body parts fail to develop.
  • The child appears female at birth.
In PAIS:

  • The body only partly responds to androgen.
  • Infants with PAIS may have male traits, female traits, or both.
In MAIS:

  • In this mild form, the body only partly responds to androgen.
  • Infants with MAIS will have male traits
Again, these are disorders with actual medical consequences. Neovaginas are not strictly a trans thing
 
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I'm not reading the whole essay by nogger, but I must highlight this glaring error:

"They all DO miss gonads because the müllerian ducts are absent'

No the gonads are NOT Mullerian derivatives, and most women with Mullerian Dysgenesis have functional ovaries.

BTW kindly refrain from making any association between transsexualism and disorders of sexual development unless you have strong clinical support (i.e. no "they are attracted to female activities so maybe they have partial androgen insensitivity"). There is a place for such kind of discussion, and it is called Reddit.
 
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I'm not reading the whole essay by nogger, but I must highlight this glaring error:

"They all DO miss gonads because the müllerian ducts are absent'

No the gonads are NOT Mullerian derivatives, and most women with Mullerian Dysgenesis have functional ovaries.

BTW kindly refrain from making any association between transsexualism and disorders of sexual development unless you have strong clinical support (i.e. no "they are attracted to female activities so maybe they have partial androgen insensitivity"). There is a place for such kind of discussion, and it is called Reddit.
sorry for the misinfo. I did legitimately misremember that and assumed it's true (despite even citing the opposite myself) because CAIS XY men/women have testes instead and it doesn't hinder a mostly female gene expression. If someone wants real info on THAT condition, instead of relying on my haphazard ramblings, here: What the professionals say. Excuse me, I've obviously have some more reading to do.
 
sorry for the misinfo. I did legitimately misremember that and assumed it's true (despite even citing the opposite myself) because CAIS XY men/women have testes instead and it doesn't hinder a mostly female gene expression. If someone wants real info on THAT condition, instead of relying on my haphazard ramblings, here: What the professionals say. Excuse me, I've obviously have some more reading to do.
Please do note that in CAIS, the body does not respond to androgen at all, the penis and other male body parts fail to develop, and the child appears FAB but are genetically male, they just have physical female traits.

They are boys but with these cases, testosterone has no effect on sex development.

You can be XY and be a boy, or you can be XY and be a girl, all depending on the actual medical cause.

Remember what I said about Swyer syndrome? XY girls look female and have functional female genitalia and structures and thus, are biologically female.

Like @Positron said, do not confuse trans with actual medical disorders.

This is partly why I said genetics is very complicated. To most people, these disorders can be confusing and details matter. The science behind it 100 percent matters as well.

Let me illustrate for you with two karyotypes. One is CAIS and one is Swyers. Maybe this is a good visual on why details matter and see if you can spot the difference. If you haven’t, don’t feel bad because this shit is hard and that’s why I say it’s complicated.

(And I don’t expect an actual answer, just proving my point about how confusing it is without any deep knowledge)
 

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BTW kindly refrain from making any association between transsexualism and disorders of sexual development unless you have strong clinical support (i.e. no "they are attracted to female activities so maybe they have partial androgen insensitivity"). There is a place for such kind of discussion, and it is called Reddit.
I would support a coalition of intersex activists and semi-retired geneticists to make their own Stolen Valor squad that investigates all the troons who claim they're intersex, with mysterious conditions that change depending on who's asking.
 
I'm pretty sure I didn't say it's an option for klinefelter or turner syndrome. The main point was that I fail to see why there wouldn't be attempts to expand this to XY with complete androgen insens because there isn't much phentypal difference to Müllerian agenesis, the rest was hyperbole, sure. That was just meant illustrative to the expansion of this whole fitting a peg into a square ideology behind it all.

We should really have data on that, tho that's not exactly what I said or at least meant. But yes, I assumed that there are kids who probably don't have much going on besides the a-typical behavior, however that comes about.
You could also ask, if the topic was another:

(They probably aren't actually but nobody really knows what to look for - it's all just behavior.
I mean all that "gay gene" or "gay-face" stuff lead to nowhere. thankfully?) Dunno if that further obstructs or clarifies what I meant here.
You know, a typo snuck in, and I meant to say "aren't". Sorry about that.
 
I'm not reading the whole essay by nogger, but I must highlight this glaring error:

"They all DO miss gonads because the müllerian ducts are absent'

No the gonads are NOT Mullerian derivatives, and most women with Mullerian Dysgenesis have functional ovaries.

BTW kindly refrain from making any association between transsexualism and disorders of sexual development unless you have strong clinical support (i.e. no "they are attracted to female activities so maybe they have partial androgen insensitivity"). There is a place for such kind of discussion, and it is called Reddit.
Yeah.
I know others are saying this too but DSDs have nothing to do with troons, and the only people with an interest in pretending they’re related are troons.

People with DSDs, whether they’re occult DSDs or the very rare and truly ambiguous DSDs, they have a genetic, physical condition. Trannies hold them up as examples to promulgate the lie that “sex exists on a spectrum”. But that isn’t really true, and DSDs is not the problem troonies have (even if some of them pretend they do.) it’s like saying “euploidy exists in a spectrum” because some people are born with certain trisomies and survive; but those people are fucking crippled..

Troons’ genitals developed just fine, they’re just unhappy with the outcome. The problem is in their mind, not in their groin or in their genotype. Troons who claim to have a DSD, don’t.
 
And on the flip side, you might get troon organs, they can donate

Wouldn't there be a huge probability of the health of many organs being useless due to the use of non naturally occuring (in the body) hormones? Since they've used, in effect, both sex hormones, could it be a possibility that it has or can cause mutations or damage?

The aforementioned are still all medical conditions. Troonism is not. Troonism does not cause abnormal karyotyping.

AIS does increase the risk of testicular cancer due to the presence of the testis-specific protein Y-linked 1 (TSPY) gene as well as the Y chromosome. Other tumors associated are hamartomas, Sertoli cell adenomas and rarely Leydig-cell tumours, which are all benign but even so, do you want something growing in your body that’s not supposed to be there?

The risk of gonad cancer in AIS is 3.6% at 25 years and 33% at 50 years.

There are other medical issues that come with it as well. People with CAIS (complete androgen insensitivity syndrome ) are also prone to inguial hernias, or swelling of the labia, or absence of periods.

Turner syndrome only affects females. It’s like the female Noonan syndrome, and results in short stature and other medical issues. Turners is also usually almost alway de novo (random) much like DS

Genetics is my favorite so I do apologize if I piss anyone off and so on. Genetics is also very complicated. And AIS is rare, so.

I know with some, if not all, DSDs, that the gonadal/ovarian tissue that isn't meant to be there has to be removed as it can (and has in the past) cause cancer due to its mutations?
 
Wouldn't there be a huge probability of the health of many organs being useless due to the use of non naturally occuring (in the body) hormones? Since they've used, in effect, both sex hormones, could it be a possibility that it has or can cause mutations or damage?



I know with some, if not all, DSDs, that the gonadal/ovarian tissue that isn't meant to be there has to be removed as it can (and has in the past) cause cancer due to its mutations?
There isn’t enough data that talks about the results of hrt as it pertains to the use of trans people as cadaver donors. Living donors that are trans can donate kidneys but must stop hrt six weeks before surgery. I do know there is no ban on organ donation as a trans person. A lot of organs that are transplanted aren’t even in perfect condition. Lungs accepted for donation and transplant are often smokers lungs, for example. People don’t have time to wait for the perfect organ to come around

And yes, DSDs can cause cancer
 
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There isn’t enough data that talks about the results of hrt as it pertains to the use of trans people as cadaver donors. Living donors that are trans can donate kidneys but must stop hrt six weeks before surgery. I do know there is no ban on organ donation as a trans person. A lot of organs that are transplanted aren’t even in perfect condition. Lungs accepted for donation and transplant arevoften smokers lungs, for example.

And yes, DSDs can cause result in cancer

I think on the organ donation side it's more a future fear. Mainly because of the uptake in blockers and cross sex hormones and fucking seahorse dads on T
 
I would love to know how one butchers their genitalia this way and think “wow, this is just like a real vagina. Wait no, it’s better”and not only that…. but post it for the entire world to see.

Why are vaginas only equated with femininity in their mind? We just had a fun, interesting discussion on how even chromosomes can be misleading and that it’s not as simple as xy = boy, xx = women, as proven by science.

Even with a neovag, they’re missing the lubrication aspect that women have (vaginal mucosa as has been noted), missing uterus, missing fallopian tubes, missing cervix, etc.

Reduce everyone to their skeletons and a trans man will not present as female. The differences are still obvious. No amount of HRT post skeletal maturation is going to make a difference.

At the same time, I guess we should be glad that for the most part, SRS is the end of the line for troons. I’ve disregarded the notion of FFS as a factor because most of the work is rhinoplasty, cheek fillers and soft tissue work, jaw work and Adam’s apple shaving (and sometimes brow ridge reduction)

FFS relatively speaking, only makes a minor difference in appearance when performed on a troon. It still doesn’t result in passing as a female.
 
I would love to know how one butchers their genitalia this way and think “wow, this is just like a real vagina. Wait no, it’s better”and not only that…. but post it for the entire world to see.
Back in my day we didn't post our privates on the internet.
Can you imagine a man posting his penis just to show it off?
Or a female posting their vagina and ask if it looked ok?
I would never show anybody that area (other than my significant other). Heck even going to the obgyn is embarrassing.
This shouldn't be normalized.
 
Then isn't this just murder? Not even the Nazis would do this shit.
If you can't fix stupid, then you can at least guarantee that it doesn't breed.
Humanity won't. No body that's not female -- the real kind -- will ever, ever be able to sustain pregnancy, no matter what organs or hormones or magical incantations are applied.

An appalling thought but frankly, the only way it could work would be for a man's brain to be transplanted into a female body.
Probably not. The brain is responsible for releasing hormones too. Everything is too interconnected to just plug and play body parts. Pregnancy requires the whole body.
 
Heck even going to the obgyn is embarrassing.
Off topic but I hate that this is true for so many women. Gynos have seen vaginas in literally every state they can exist in, big clits, little clits, full bush, absolutely bald, covered in razor burn, full of herpes, active sti infections THEY HAVE SEEN IT ALL. "Maybe my question is weird and embarrassing though??" It's not, just ask. If you feel most comfortable with a woman then find a woman doctor.

I've watched a good woman die FAR too young (I'm talking mid to late 40's) from uterine cancer because she was too embarrassed to see a doctor. By the time she admitted something was wrong she was stage 4 and there was nothing that could be done. They had money, they could have afforded the best treatment but because they caught it so late she died within 2-3 months and her family was devastated.

I'd be shocked if many of you didn't have similar stories. Get ya cervix's peeped at every 3 years (per mayo's guidelines) and for the love of whatever God you believe in tell a doctor if something feels or looks different, it's what they're there for!
 
Off topic but I hate that this is true for so many women. Gynos have seen vaginas in literally every state they can exist in, big clits, little clits, full bush, absolutely bald, covered in razor burn, full of herpes, active sti infections THEY HAVE SEEN IT ALL. "Maybe my question is weird and embarrassing though??" It's not, just ask. If you feel most comfortable with a woman then find a woman doctor.

I've watched a good woman die FAR too young (I'm talking mid to late 40's) from uterine cancer because she was too embarrassed to see a doctor. By the time she admitted something was wrong she was stage 4 and there was nothing that could be done. They had money, they could have afforded the best treatment but because they caught it so late she died within 2-3 months and her family was devastated.

I'd be shocked if many of you didn't have similar stories. Get ya cervix's peeped at every 3 years (per mayo's guidelines) and for the love of whatever God you believe in tell a doctor if something feels or looks different, it's what they're there for!
Trust me, medical professionals really don’t care what yo business looks like. These are the people that just don’t look up there but swab your anus for strep b during pregnancy and stick their fingers up there for dilation checks. I’ve toileted old people and bathed them. I cared more about them not being full of diarrhea and getting infections than what they look like naked.

One elderly lady got diarrhea all he time because her body really couldn’t process food much toward the end, and she’d say “oh I’m so embarrassed” ( when she was able to verbalize such). I would tell her that it’s ok, I just wanted her to be clean and fresh.

I get the fear and embarrassment. I think of all of us, male or female are insecure about certain aspects whether it be looks, intelligence or personality. But bodies are bodies. They aren’t all equal and it’s ok. Nothing to be embarrassed about.

ETA: @Poonocchio touché my friend
 
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