Megathread SRS and GRS surgeons and associated horrors - the medical community of experimental surgeons, the secret community of home butchers

[Peaches Demure]

A chad-chin troon decided to get his jaw shaved down, and it didn't turn out quite as he'd hoped...

Spoiler: Nothing NSFW here, just a sad saggy-jawed troon mug

https://www.reddit.com/r/Transgender_Surgeries/comments/1e7ejno/botched_ffs_chin_reduction_fail/

 

[Sailor Kim Jong Moon]

A chad-chin troon decided to get his jaw shaved down, and it didn't turn out quite as he'd hoped...

Spoiler: Nothing NSFW here, just a sad saggy-jawed troon mug

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https://www.reddit.com/r/Transgender_Surgeries/comments/1e7ejno/botched_ffs_chin_reduction_fail/

Oh my god, it’s so pointy. Like that moon man meme. Rough.

 

[Otterly]

By arguing with brain structure, you also would have to agree with trooning little boys who act like girls or little girls who act like boys because, obviously there IS something intersex about their brain but nobody can pinpoint exactly what so far - it's miniscule and mostly doesn't affect reproductive ability except for chosing incompatible mate in adulthood (laymen term: they're gay).

There isn’t anything intersex about their brains. They’ve been groomed , coomed or abused into it. There’s no gay gene. It’s an error of imprinting, which is behavioural not genetic.

The main point was that I fail to see why there wouldn't be attempts to expand this to XY with complete androgen insens because there isn't much phentypal difference to Müllerian agenesis

No there is - a woman with mrkh is a woman - the vast majority have normal ovaries and are, other than the missing uterus/vaginal tissue, normal women. They’d have all the hormonal cues needed to sustain a pregnancy. Cais don’t have that.

their purpose is research and they are dying in front of your eyes, they have no purpose and have could you let that continue from a humane standpoint?

You actually can’t let them suffer, legally in the uk. The terms of the home office licence for most animal work disallow more than a specific level of suffering. For the vast majority of lab animals that’s moderate, which means if your lab mice look a bit poorly you must put them down humanely. You’re not allowed to let them suffer .
That hot dog rot dog is quite something. It shows you how little feeling they have, because of that was as unnerved as normal tissue she’d be unable to function at all. Utter horror.

 

[Dr. Eldon Tyrell]

There isn’t anything intersex about their brains.

I was under the impression that there isn't such a thing as a female brain at all. I thought that nothing, except for neuron density and overall volume and only when viewed side by side, can be used to differentiate female brains from male ones without other context. Do you have anything contemporary on brain-gender?
I would hate having to concede to troon's beloved female/male brain dichotomy worldview ...

They’d have all the hormonal cues needed to sustain a pregnancy. Cais don’t have that.

To what degree is the brain involved in all of that? Does it have specialized structures natal males lack? (Genuine question.)

---

Ah, so it wasn't really possible to differentiate female and male brains until very recently.

The extent to which a person’s sex affects how their brain is organized and operates has long been a point of dispute among scientists. While we know the sex chromosomes we are born with help determine the cocktail of hormones our brains are exposed to — particularly during early development, puberty and aging — researchers have long struggled to connect sex to concrete differences in the human brain. Brain structures tend to look much the same in men and women, and previous research examining how brain regions work together has also largely failed to turn up consistent brain indicators of sex.

... but that didn't dissuade anyone from rolling rotdogs, of course.

Until recently, a model like the one Menon’s team employed would help researchers sort brains into different groups but wouldn’t provide information about how the sorting happened. Today, however, researchers have access to a tool called “explainable AI,” which can sift through vast amounts of data to explain how a model’s decisions are made.

Using explainable AI, Menon and his team identified the brain networks that were most important to the model’s judgment of whether a brain scan came from a man or a woman. They found the model was most often looking to the default mode network, striatum, and the limbic network to make the call.

Ugh, so this brain gendering stuff IS (also) happening ... so tiring... man made horrors... all must troon etc ad infinitum.

 

[TismFarmer]

Oh my god, it’s so pointy. Like that moon man meme. Rough.

And that's not even what he's upset about!
He doesn't like the droopy jowls that were left because he got his jaw made smaller and just expected the flesh/skin of his face to 'shrink to fit' instead of getting a jaw lift or other soft tissue removal.

 

[booklover]

Anyway, I found this site that explained a sigmoid-derived neovagina to me and I have to ask, would this effect their ability to shit? If the butcher's work on stitching up flesh on the outside is anything to go by, how many heckin valid transwymyn are having their colons fall apart after some time? I just don't trust them to know how to connect two pieces of flesh together.

Exhibit A! Originally referenced by me in post #25,200. It's undated.

 

[GloriousScarf]

Some wrong think is going on over at r/transgender_surgeries

People are voicing their regret.

Thread

 

[Catboy Ranch]

Post been up ages, having to retweet yourself, and can barely crack 11k views.

He's pimping a new "why you should trans your kid" book he has out, so Elon may have personally ordered his reach to be suppressed.

Elon and Turban have sparred many times. The latest passive-aggressive one:

 

[monstrous bubo]

And that's not even what he's upset about!
He doesn't like the droopy jowls that were left because he got his jaw made smaller and just expected the flesh/skin of his face to 'shrink to fit' instead of getting a jaw lift or other soft tissue removal.

All that effort to look like Joe Lavery

 

[UselessRubberKeyboard]

Beak and flower crown atop greasy hair - name a more iconic troon duo.

 

[Otterly]

I was under the impression that there isn't such a thing as a female brain at all.

We are different from a macro to a molecular level in everything. It’s not simple to determine massive differences in brain becasue they’re the consistency of stuff blancmange and so it’s been thought that there was no such things as a male if female brain until pretty recently, really the last couple of years. Up until then I’d have argued the same thing.
AI though can tell the difference , but yes, male and female brains are different AND they do not overlap. Troons do not have ‘a bit of a female brain.’ They have male brains
Thread 'New Research Finds Huge Differences Between Male and Female Brains'
https://kiwifarms.net/threads/new-r...rences-between-male-and-female-brains.194502/
Interestingly it’s a connectivity thing not a gross anatomy thing,
Troons don’t have female anything. They’re men, who have some kind of vulnerability like autism, or a brain issue (more on that in a moment) that makes them more susceptible to a form of body issue.

Think about how girls process this kind of mental health thing - they tend to attack their bodies. I suspect that cutting, anorexia etc are all of a similar root. It’s some kind of issue with self image in the brain. What that actually manifests as is dictated by social trends at the time. A few hundred years ago we had holy maidens starving to death, then anorexia, then cutting and now pooners
For troons, I am starting to suspect there’s a basic issue with visual processing somewhere. Loads seem to be autistic, loads seem to have a form of faceblindness (prosopagnosia.) there’s a type of face blindness where you see things not as holistic wholes but as collections of individual characteristics. So YOU see a woman as her, as a whole but a Troon would see her as a collection of tits, dress, hair etc. people with face blindness recognise people using workarounds like ‘Bob has a beard and those big glasses’ ‘Sarah is the women walking that little dog on Wednesdays here.’

Face blindness seems to exist at a much more common frequency than we thought and it’s not always so severe that it’s a complete inability to see a face. It’s just my speculation but I think that a tendency to see things as a collection of bits rather than a whole is a key part of Troon origins. It leads to categorisation errors, like ‘woman is when long hair and tits’ and ‘ man is when lumberjack, I prefer gaming so not man so woman.’ It explains the gnostic meat Lego stuff where they think shoving an axe wound in makes you a girl. It explains a lot.

Add in rampant porn consumption, online grooming and the ability to self identify into a group that can do whatever it likes without social pushback and you have troons.
But they push this idea that they have a female brain, or a female soul, because it’s a ‘thing’ a discrete thing that justifies the fetish.

 

[dappouROCK]

@Otterly
Can't quote.

Does differences specifically in brain activity during rest mean anything?

Honest question. Like, what does this mean exactly?

Wouldn't it have been better to watch the brains when the subjects were given a task to handle or question to answer. Not when they're... doing nothing?

Because, I understand the brains have a physical differences between the sexes. Would this not affect the way neurons fire when the brain is at rest?

I'm not a neuroscientist.

And do we know if the other differences in the brain are caused by nature or nuture?

I had always suspected that a good part of the reason there were even difference in the brain's functional activity was because parents, media, and society in general tend to push boys and girls into specific 'boxes' and lines of thinking. Like, treatment and learned behavior in childhood affect future brain development (not in a troon way, just general thought process type stuff).

Do women attack their bodies more because they're taught to be self-consious about their image all the time, or is it because they're simply women? Is that just how the brain works or how childhood/ upbringing affects the brains process as they age?

I feel like in the terms of women self harming more is nuture, but men's face blindness is more nature.

But I am genuinely curious.

 

[monstrous bubo]

Do women attack their bodies more because they're taught to be self-consious about their image all the time, or is it because they're simply women? Is that just how the brain works or how childhood/ upbringing affects the brains process as they age?

Socialisation probably plays a role, but remember the disparity in physical strength between males and females. A female doesn’t usually have the physical strength to challenge her parents, especially her father, or spouse, and is vulnerable if she’s exiled from the family. Her own body is one she can have control over. An unhappy male usually has the option of physical confrontation if someone tries to push him around.

 

[dappouROCK]

but remember the disparity in physical strength between males and females. A female doesn’t usually have the physical strength to challenge her parents, especially her father, or spouse, and is vulnerable if she’s exiled from the family. Her own body is one she can have control over. An unhappy male usually has the option of physical confrontation if someone tries to push him around.

Is that not part of socialization? Why do confrontations always have to be physical?

 

[TheCakeIsALie]

May I add on to what @Otterly said.

There are numerous differences between the two brains.

Size: men have an average brain volume of 1260 cm3 compared to 1130 cm3 in women. Men also have larger crania relative to their body size.

Cortical thickness: women have thicker cortex.

Structural complexity: women have more structural complexity in the superior-frontal and parietal lobes.

Gray matter: men have more gray matter in the amygdala, temporal pole, fusiform gyrus, and putamen. Women have more gray matter overall after accounting for intracranial volume.

White matter: men have more white matter, which contains myelinated axonal fibers.

Cerebrospinal fluid: men have more cerebrospinal fluid.

Hippocampus: women often have a larger hippocampus,

Verbal centers: women tend to have verbal centers on both sides of the brain, while men tend to have them only in the left hemisphere

These are very distinct differences, imho when you look at specifics.

 

[Otterly]

Does differences specifically in brain activity during rest mean anything?

I think it probably does. It suggests the basic organisation is different. Which in turn suggests what comes out of that is different. I know I think differently than my husband, I see it all the time. I think we are roughly ‘as smart as’ each other but we differ hugely in how we approach problems. I see it with my kids as well. Different routes to the same ending. It’s quite fascinating to see how girl brain and boy brain differ.
The big issue society has at the moment with stuff like this is that we are programmed to see any difference as hierarchical - if there’s a difference between people in anything then progressive thought insists that one is an oppressor and one a repressor and that’s bad, so all difference must be stamped out.
In reality, men and women are different. That doesn’t mean that one is overall ‘better.’ Men are better at some stuff and women better at other stuff. We worked together in small bands throughout our evolution and time on this earth using those differences to be better TOGETHER. We are two halves of a whole.

What it means in terms of absolute difference I honestly don’t know, but AI is picking up something, like it can detect race from x rays, even tiny snippets of images. Again that doesn’t mean one is ‘better’ than the other. Human groups are adapted to their environments. Sherpas and whatever tribe has lived up at La Paz forever have different haemoglobin so they can live up there and maintain a pregnancy just fine where is sea level dwellers suffer. That’s a specific ‘better’ and maybe being at sea level makes you better at other stuff.

We are still antsy that any difference we find biologically between sexes or races means ‘better, thus repression’ and we need to nuke that thought.

Do women attack their bodies more because they're taught to be self-consious about their image all the time, or is it because they're simply women? Is that just how the brain works or how childhood/ upbringing affects the brains process as they age?

Good question and I honestly don’t know. I think (and it’s just an opinion) that the root causes are the same, it’s some kind of biological tendency to an alienation from the body and inability to synthesise a whole from disparate parts/categorisation errors . The socialisation dictates how it manifests. Men push it outwards and women focus it inwards. That is socialisation I think.

Ironically that initial tendency is probably something you could actually label as a cluster of ‘dysphorias’
@dappouROCK sonindont double post - all conflict ends up depending on the physical. Physical power is the ultimate end of it. We women use psychological power becasue we cannot use physical. Think of it as rights - you have the rights you can defend, at the end of the day. The nonsense stops when someone big enough says it does.

 

[dappouROCK]

@Otterly

Thanks for the input!

I wholeheartedly agree that society likes the place differences in a hierarchical structure. You can even see it in physical differences as well.

But at the end of the day, men and women are simply different, not better or worse.

I wish I could find the study, but I recall reading an article that listed very interesting physical differences that highlight the fact that the sexes are different and not superior/ inferior.

If I recall correctly, the differences were something like:

- Men can focus/ pinpoint on a specific object far in the distance, but women have better all-around sight/ perception.

- Women's cores are lower, allowing them more balence (and inadvertently very good at sports that require kicking, as they're better able to control the direction in which the object is kicked. Iirc, some high school level american football teams have a dedicated female kicker, could be wrong.)

- And of course, the obvious: men have great physical strength, but women have robust endurance.

This is partially due to the way their muscles are. Iirc, muscles have two layers. When a man burns through the first and then the second, he experiences exhaustion. But when a woman burns through the first and moves to the second, the first recovers while the second is in use and it actually ends up switching between the two until the point of exhaustion (not sure if exhaustion is the correct word to use here, I'm going off memory).

I believe women have also been shown to last longer in situations of famine and dementia. I believe the dementia one has something to do with having two X chromosomes instead of one.

I might be misremembering some details and I do recall there being more differences, but I can only remember these.

Thought they were neat.

--

"sonindont double post - all conflict ends up depending on the physical. Physical power is the ultimate end of it."

Does physical power have to be though? Why is it that it's like that? Is it just because that's the way it should be or the way people say it should be?

And there are tools right? Such as... guns (lol).

Why are things structured around if one is physically strong enough?

It makes me think about how some boast about how much they can carry when we quite literally have the pully system.

Why do we rely and brute strength when there are so many tools at our disposal?

 

[Paper Machete]

Why do we rely and brute strength when there are so many tools at our disposal?

When you're physically capable it gives you lots of confidence. People really underestimate how your physical state can change the way you think/influence it. (Which is why you should hit the gym.) I think it's a monkey brain thing, not necessarily logical. When you're aware that you're better at something than someone else that does change the way you think of yourself in relation to them ESPECIALLY if you're doing the thing you're better at with them. Not necessarily in a bad way. You're either going to: regulate your skill/strength to make things not as obvious (usually for the sake of play/sport), be frustrated they're holding you back, disregard/not do that thing with them at all.

Human beings are animals. Animals with very complex brains and social behaviors. But animals none the less. And nearly all mammals like us organize themselves in hierarchies, and those hierarchies are decided by physicality. It doesn't have to be violent or aggressive. This isn't "bite his ear so he listens to you" bullshit. But it is real. If you're not able/willing to put physical pressure on (even if that is just body language) then you're not going to be the numba one.

I think anyone who goes "but technology!" has likely never been in a physical altercation or lived in dangerous times. Strength matters in a lot of situations, it gives someone an edge over you. So you can, with the help of wheels on a wheelbarrow for example, move more weight than you otherwise would. Congrats. Someone stronger and faster than you can load it up and move it around still better than you even if the extra help you get from not having to move them individually makes it a job possible for you. It's only because we've actively decided to be really nice to each other (and relatively recently) about this stuff that makes current year very comfortable for a lot of us. And I think this shouldn't go unappreciated.

 

[monstrous bubo]

Is that not part of socialization? Why do confrontations always have to be physical?

They don’t have to be physical, but that is always a possibility. A lot of female behaviour can be explained by trying to avoid angering someone who is bigger and stronger than us, and finding non-physical ways to secure our positions.

 

[dappouROCK]

@Paper Machete

I guess what I'm trying to figure out is why are we prioritizing strength?

I don't believe there should be a hierarchy based on strength. I don't believe there should be a hierarchy in regards to any of this in general.

I'm not saying strength isn't an important or useful factor, but as a species, we did not make it as far as we have because of pure strength. If the success of a species was determined by strength, we would be living under apes.

Other factors include intelligence, endurance- to outsmart, to outlive, Intelligence allowed us to create weapons and tools, to utilize our enviorment in a more clever way. Endurance allowed us to live through famines and plagues. Why is strength to be the deciding factor? On that many people deem to be the end all be all?

I suppose I would like to assume most people don't have monkey brain, as you say.