Honka Honka Burning Love
In Clown World, the only god is the one who Honks.
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Aug 29, 2019
I could buy wheel of time again...and USE IT AS A FUCKING HOUSE
There is a Dark Age coming - ...and I feeeel fiiiine :)
- Thread starter CheepMeds
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- Mar 29, 2021
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PipTheAlchemist
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2020
They're not even out yet, lmao
- Joined
- Jun 13, 2016
I do admire your hope OP, and I don't necessarily disagree on any of your points but I just can't shake the pessimistic feeling that what will happen is that once SHTF is that terriblefeeling that the elites won't lose their power. They will either crack down, or just be replaced with someone else. Human beings can be very selfish fearful people, and for every modern person that knows how to grow their own food, create their own tools, be self sufficient, and perhaps most importantly have a close knit community to help you with those things you also have thousands that don't.
What does this mean? Well we already know. People will look towards leaders that can promise them safety and security even at the cost of their own freedom. Either we have the current elites with even more control over our lives, or new faces that are just as power hungry and sociopathic as what we have now. There's a very good chance they won't be the type of leaders you want either.
So many people, myself included just would die or have very shitty lives if we were thrown into pre-industrial society. I'm at least starting to prepare for the future, but so so many are ignorant of what may come to pass, and by the time they realize what's happening it's too late.
This is especially true for my generation and younger millennials. If you talk to a lot of people in my age range (20-25) you will notice a lot don't have many qualms with authoritarianism against their enemies. I could go on about this but you get my point already I think.
I may be misreading what you are meaning OP. Are you saying the collapse of modern industrial society is inevitable and we must look to the past to survive it? How would this happen without complete total collapse of our modern world in first world nations? I don't want to even begin to imagine the hell-scape fragile food importing nations will become.
What does this mean? Well we already know. People will look towards leaders that can promise them safety and security even at the cost of their own freedom. Either we have the current elites with even more control over our lives, or new faces that are just as power hungry and sociopathic as what we have now. There's a very good chance they won't be the type of leaders you want either.
So many people, myself included just would die or have very shitty lives if we were thrown into pre-industrial society. I'm at least starting to prepare for the future, but so so many are ignorant of what may come to pass, and by the time they realize what's happening it's too late.
This is especially true for my generation and younger millennials. If you talk to a lot of people in my age range (20-25) you will notice a lot don't have many qualms with authoritarianism against their enemies. I could go on about this but you get my point already I think.
I may be misreading what you are meaning OP. Are you saying the collapse of modern industrial society is inevitable and we must look to the past to survive it? How would this happen without complete total collapse of our modern world in first world nations? I don't want to even begin to imagine the hell-scape fragile food importing nations will become.
- Joined
- Mar 24, 2021
How do we know that there is going to be one? Maybe there will be, maybe there won't, nobody actually knows.
Even if resource limits aren't currently an issue, it still eventually will be for as long as scarcity is a thing. In fact, isn't it better to anticipate resource issues before it's too late?
I get why people like to shit on Malthusians, but it seems like there's a knee-jerk reaction to be dismissive of anyone who even suggests that we might have a resource problem on our hands.
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- Joined
- Mar 29, 2014
Ever hear of the Olduvai Theory?
Olduvai Theory: Sliding Towards a Post-Industrial Stone Age, by Richard Duncan
(more recent version from this year)
Olduvai Theory: Sliding Towards a Post-Industrial Stone Age, by Richard Duncan
(more recent version from this year)
We will live in a high-trust Agrarian Christian society. And we will drink beer everyday and eat many apples.
- Joined
- Jun 29, 2016
I can barely survive a charley horse, take away my air conditioning and beefaroni and I'm beyond dead.
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- Joined
- May 8, 2021
Unless there is a nuclear war, you'll be fine.
My grandparents genuinely thought, and were told repeatedly by the powers that be, that there would be an atomic war within their lifetimes. They had good reason to believe that. They were grown during WWII, they hosted soldiers in their home when those soldiers were on the way to train for an actual world war.
They built a bomb shelter because they wanted to protect their kids from inevitable radiation disease. Filled it with canned goods and bunk beds.
The world went on, mutually assured destruction was what it is, the canned goods spoiled, the bomb shelter filled with water, algae, snakes, and mosquitoes, and my grandparents and most of their children died natural deaths.
I'm optimistic.
My grandparents genuinely thought, and were told repeatedly by the powers that be, that there would be an atomic war within their lifetimes. They had good reason to believe that. They were grown during WWII, they hosted soldiers in their home when those soldiers were on the way to train for an actual world war.
They built a bomb shelter because they wanted to protect their kids from inevitable radiation disease. Filled it with canned goods and bunk beds.
The world went on, mutually assured destruction was what it is, the canned goods spoiled, the bomb shelter filled with water, algae, snakes, and mosquitoes, and my grandparents and most of their children died natural deaths.
I'm optimistic.
- Joined
- Aug 19, 2022
Our species has always muddled along. The horrors many people have faced in the last two centuries will never be something you will endure.
Stop being a pussy.
Stop being a pussy.
AlmightyMagichan
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2014
I'm not convinced that society is going to collapse anytime soon. Mainly because I believe in the power of people being too lazy.
We don't even have to get down to things like electricity or running water. If people starting losing cell phone and internet services they would freak the hell out. Someone responsible for that happening would become public enemy #1 and quickly hunted down. I can see people working hard to restore those things if they were lost, but once that's done then it's back to lying on the couch on the phone all day. The only way I can see a new Dark Age happening is if something major manages to destroy everything. That would have to be nuclear level, in which case there might not be anyone left afterwards. Rome did eventually fall to Germanic tribes back in the day, but could something like that happen now? Not sure, I'd imagine the invaders would want that sweet luxery technology we all enjoy.
We don't even have to get down to things like electricity or running water. If people starting losing cell phone and internet services they would freak the hell out. Someone responsible for that happening would become public enemy #1 and quickly hunted down. I can see people working hard to restore those things if they were lost, but once that's done then it's back to lying on the couch on the phone all day. The only way I can see a new Dark Age happening is if something major manages to destroy everything. That would have to be nuclear level, in which case there might not be anyone left afterwards. Rome did eventually fall to Germanic tribes back in the day, but could something like that happen now? Not sure, I'd imagine the invaders would want that sweet luxery technology we all enjoy.
- Joined
- Jul 1, 2017
It's neo-Malthusian nonsense with little relation to reality despite how often it gets quoted. In reality, there is practically nothing stopping industrial civilization from rebuilding itself after a collapse. This guy's theory is just weird because he's attributing peak energy use as something significant when in reality peak energy has gone down because society is more energy efficient (it's not a surprise his peak is the 1970s i.e. the oil embargo years) as well as the aging/great replacement of Western populations (who consume more energy per capita, at least before they hit the retirement home).
Even after a total collapse where like say everyone besides the 500 people in the Sentinelese tribe die because the Wuhan lab released an actual doomsday plague and not Peter Daszak's brand new virus, given a few hundred thousand years they'd still find a way to rebuild industrial civilization, they just wouldn't do it with coal. Solar energy for instance dates to the 1880s, but no one used it because why the fuck would you use the shittiest most primitive solar cell imaginable when you could burn some oil or coal? But if you didn't have much oil or coal, you'd come up with some solution like solar thermal power or using solar energy to pump water for storage and use that water. And then you'd discover nuclear fission and ditch that shit.
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2019
Regardless of whether shit goes down or not, I'd recommend moving to a small town/getting some land, learning the basics of growing your own food/raising or hunting animals, and general self-reliance.
Worst case, you have a better, healthier lifestyle. Best case, you might make it through any collapse.
Worst case, you have a better, healthier lifestyle. Best case, you might make it through any collapse.
I heard on the radio last week that the average house in Melbourne is closing in on $2m. These are houses on tiny blocks of land. I live 2.5 hours drive away, and paid $550k for a 4 bedroom house with enough land to raise some chickens, grow enough vegetables to at least provide 3/4 of our diet. The benefits of the city are minimal, and the downsides are massive if things go sideways.
ditto
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Aug 17, 2019
the preacher man says it's the end of time...he says that america's rivers are going dry. the interest is up, the stock market's down. you guys have to be careful walking around here this late at night...this...this is the perfect place to get jumped.
- Joined
- Mar 29, 2014
???
If that happened, hopefully it wouldn't be the overall circus it is this time around, what with wokeism and excess consumerism.
And is it possible to rebuild industrialization without fossil fuels? Like doesn't solar or nuclear need complex manufacturing?
- Joined
- Jul 1, 2017
I honestly think we're doomed to some sort of collapse, like Bronze Age Collapse round 2, but I've always hoped the next society that rises will learn from the endless litany of mistakes made.
Early industrialization was done entirely by wood, water, and wind. Coal was only valuable because it could be used wherever and in England/Continental Europe, wood was rare and had to be imported from the Americas, Scandinavia, or Russia.
Real life isn't a Civilization tech tree since there's not really any obstacles stopping you from getting the right machining tools to make the basic equipment for solar thermal power. At its simplest, its the Archimedes mirror plus a Stirling engine.
- Joined
- Mar 29, 2021
I admit that my optimism relies on a lot of hope and faith. Mainly I'm betting on the fall being more slow and gradual. The coming depression might likely be a big drop down though.
The gradual decline will definitely be different across the world. Most of Africa will probably be hell (parts of Asia too). Luckily for Americans they have a built in cultural myth for government eventually becoming tyrannical and thus needing to collapse. East Europe already has gone though the fall of USSR and thus have some cultural understandings how to deal with a decline and that collective ideologies are bad.
However, I see West Europe selling themselves easily to new collective totalitarian systems. They have much denser populations than rest of the west and are much more socialized to trust whatever their government says. They are most likely to retain the same central governing complex.
I imagine rest of the west gradually decentralizing and building paralles smaller societies. Probably managed by modern equivalent of local warlords which would be like little mafia states.
Just hope you get a Mafia scenario than an African warlord one.
Ether way, I say anyone's best chance is getting out of the heat that will be big complex urban areas.
I also don't think farm owner purges will happen like in the forming of USSR. That was more of a symbolic stunt since the movement was based on the resentment of the poor farmers. Farmers were the vast majority of Russia's population. In most modern countries they are like 1/10 and people generally think they already live poor post-apocalyptical lives. So I don't see them being scape-goated as much as many other elite minority groups.
Also maybe, aim at not living on a big farmland if you don't plan on utilizing it for feeding more than yourself. I imagine those are most likely to be collectivized if it comes to that. In general I'll try to gradually set up a low profile lifestyle and try to slip though the cracks of history (as @beet644 wrote).
If we scale out, I can pick anecdotal examples from how Romans believed to live in an immortal society and similarly Egyptians before the bronze collapse.
Their declines happened gradually and imperceptibly for the average person.
I'm too placing my bets on world not ending in nukes, because that is a limit of my optimism and I don't see wasting energy on surviving if I'm not rich enough to buy an actual fallout bunker.
However, it hasn't taken nukes to make gas, property and medical care a lot less affordable since the times of our grandparents. Even now we are globally being told to prepare for an even more ascetic compromises in the future. I only see the trajectory going one way.
Once again, I'm mainly pointing at the coming century not the decade for the decline to take place in. (however the economic depression will probably really suck too.)
That is exactly the point of this thread. Did you even read the very first sentence of the original post?
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- Joined
- Mar 29, 2014
hay @Save the Loli
What does "neo-Malthusian" mean? Also I know technological progress IRL doesn't work like a "tech tree" like in Civilization - what I meant was that viable power production like solar and especially nuclear may need a bunch of industries to support them.
also relevant vid:
"What If We Collapsed Like Rome?" by Fire of Learning
tl;dw: another Industrial Age follows another Medieval Age
What does "neo-Malthusian" mean? Also I know technological progress IRL doesn't work like a "tech tree" like in Civilization - what I meant was that viable power production like solar and especially nuclear may need a bunch of industries to support them.
also relevant vid:
tl;dw: another Industrial Age follows another Medieval Age
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- Joined
- Jul 5, 2022
If this new dark age does happen I think most kiwi farmers will not survive or be dead before it starts