/r/TNOmod and the Reddit HOI4 modding community - When a subreddit for a video game mod turns to utter insanity

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One thing I will never forgive the nudevs for is that they scrapped a proposal for a esoteric Julius evola path in italy similar to heyndrich
 
Chuckwagon said:
YT brought a new video (11 days old as of this writing) about BTWH to my attention, laying out much of their old content (mostly ancient teasers which can't be viewed on their dead subreddits anymore since the Discord links all broke) while studiously avoiding mention of the drama which plagued its dev team - it fell to randos in the comment section to bring up stuff like the terrorist interview and AFAIK nobody's mentioned the original founder also being the guy who founded CHAZ - and wishing for its revival, very :optimistic: of this guy. Think this is the first time I've gotten to watch an actually rather lengthy video (19 mins) that goes into significant detail on this particular dead mod.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=iTaZWwNUZ8A
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BTWH isn't dead because it was never alive
 
EpicGamerMoment said:
BTWH isn't dead because it was never alive
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This is true in the sense that functionally no real development occurred on the mod since 2020, but there was a fleeting moment in time under the CHAZ guy where it seemed as though BTWH might be getting somewhere. Back before the terrorist interview blew everything up and got his ass booted from his own project, he (kind of like Pink Panzer now that I think about it) was successfully whipping the other devs into getting shit done, had drawn up an actually feasible plan for a demo release limited to just New England with an at-the-time fairly hefty Maine toozer including complete focus trees with icons & decision minigames, and even committed to a deadline for it IIRC (would've been sometime in late 2021 I believe). That seems to have been the most productive period in BTWH development.

(Unfortunately all the Discord image links from that ancient 2020 dev diary are broken now, I managed to save only one of those images before that happened - the one for Maine's right-wing governors, either Margaret Chase Smith of TNO fame or the more conservative Republican John H. Reed)

btwh-maine.png

Of course, then Couch got Caesar'd by the other troons (at least one of whom he was engaged in ERP with) and they proceeded to throw out everything they had built up under him including all plans & the work which had been done for the New England demo, only to then completely fail to replace it. He himself seems to have been run out of Paradox modding entirely since following this debacle he joined the Just After The End team for CK2, only to then get punted out of that for being impossible to work with even before they found out he was also a pedo. So yeah, BTWH would've self-destructed sooner or later, but I believe there's a possible timeline where he at least managed to push out a playable New England (or even just Maine) demo before his vices demolished him (even harder than that time his dad posted a photo of his moobs to /pol/, that is).
 
Chuckwagon said:
Of course, then Couch got Caesar'd by the other troons (at least one of whom he was engaged in ERP with) and they proceeded to throw out everything they had built up under him including all plans & the work which had been done for the New England demo, only to then completely fail to replace it. He himself seems to have been run out of Paradox modding entirely since following this debacle he joined the Just After The End team for CK2, only to then get punted out of that for being impossible to work with even before they found out he was also a pedo. So yeah, BTWH would've self-destructed sooner or later, but I believe there's a possible timeline where he at least managed to push out a playable New England (or even just Maine) demo before his vices demolished him (even harder than that time his dad posted a photo of his moobs to /pol/, that is).
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I find it amusing that this kind of story is seen everywhere in HOI modding. Sure, the details usually differ but it's generally the same plot beats again and again.

It's a wonder that anything gets released at all, even more amazing that we get decent mods out of it.
 
Chuckwagon said:
A 2ACW in the 60s-70s is actually a cool concept that's not been done before and there are tons of interesting characters & oddball ideologies floating around in this time period that they could've shown off
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Non-american here, I noticed these mods keep doing a second Civil War, was the political situation in the US any close of whats required for that in the 30's (which is the date I see more often), or it is just a "We should add a Civil War otherwise the US is just out of range for any land conflict and thus very unbalanced in the world stage"?
 
winderson_silva said:
Non-american here, I noticed these mods keep doing a second Civil War, was the political situation in the US any close of whats required for that in the 30's (which is the date I see more often), or it is just a "We should add a Civil War otherwise the US is just out of range for any land conflict and thus very unbalanced in the world stage"?
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The latter, KR admits its why they have the civil war. Other mods just started to do the same thing or just have America do nothing out of fear it could fuck with the Euros.
 
winderson_silva said:
Non-american here, I noticed these mods keep doing a second Civil War, was the political situation in the US any close of whats required for that in the 30's (which is the date I see more often), or it is just a "We should add a Civil War otherwise the US is just out of range for any land conflict and thus very unbalanced in the world stage"?
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The brutal truthnuke of why so many hoi4 mods have a US civil war is simply because "kaiserreich did it". Later down the line it became apparent that the US will become super OP in any non-cold war mod so the US always has some handicap, either a civil war or some type of debuff. This is why KR removed the option for you to avoid the 2nd ACW.
 
Ryona420 said:
The latter, KR admits its why they have the civil war. Other mods just started to do the same thing or just have America do nothing out of fear it could fuck with the Euros.
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US gameplay without a civil war is also just plain uninteresting. Wow i built up till 1942 time to stomp everyone.
 
winderson_silva said:
was the political situation in the US any close of whats required for that in the 30's
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The US was unstable during the Hoover admin, but it wasn't anywhere near as severe as the 1850s or even the immediate aftermath of the Russian Revolution where there were several anarchist and communist riots. The only event that had any real promise to act as a flashpoint to kickstart the first actual Civil War in American history was the Bonus Army, and despite most people not liking how it was handled it didn't spiral out of control. FDR mismanaging the country for a decade and filling the government with literal Soviet agents didn't bring about one either, turns out if you create enough client groups people become too dependent to revolt.
 
foreman 89 said:
Is there any plausible scenario that leads to it though? Is BTWH's setup for it realistic?
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Realistically I don't think it could ever have gotten as bad as BTWH forecasts, at worst maybe a Years of Lead scenario (which is almost what happened IRL, with numerous urban riots & over a thousand bombing incidents throughout the '60s-'70s - thank God the likes of the Weather Underground were incompetent retards). Also there would have been no realistic chance of groups like Hampton's Rainbow Coalition or the Weathermen coming out on top, the former actually did get straight up assassinated by the FBI & police before he could fully unite Chicago's gangs to fight da powah, and the latter's rich parents wouldn't be able to save them if they actually started taking territory & engaging in the Red Terror they dreamed of (butchering white babies in their cradles and all) as they do in BTWH.

That said, 'realism' should always take a backseat to fun gameplay in my view, it's not like Wilson actually not lying about staying neutral in WW1 (KR/KX) or the 2ACW happening in the 2020s (TFR) are particularly realistic either but I am more than happy to accept those breaks from historical reality to have those mods exist. And even a Years of Lead America could arguably make for a fun game, just not a HOI4 mod (since it would be more-so about internal espionage, politicking & riot suppression than, y'know, a war game).
 
Chuckwagon said:
Realistically I don't think it could ever have gotten as bad as BTWH forecasts, at worst maybe a Years of Lead scenario (which is almost what happened IRL, with over a thousand bombing incidents in the '60s-'70s - thank God the likes of the Weather Underground were incompetent retards). Also there would have been no realistic chance of groups like Hampton's Rainbow Coalition or the Weathermen coming out on top, the former actually did get straight up assassinated by the FBI & police before he could fully unite Chicago's gangs to fight da powah, the latter would've gotten exterminated if they actually started taking territory & engaging in the Red Terror they dreamed of (butchering white babies in their cradles and all) as they do in BTWH.

That said, 'realism' should always take a backseat to fun gameplay in my view, it's not like Wilson actually not lying about staying neutral in WW1 (KR/KX) or the 2ACW happening in the 2020s (TFR) are particularly realistic either but I am more than happy to accept those breaks from historical reality to have those mods exist.
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BTWH does change some of the backstory prior like the US nuking China in the Korean war and they also Goldwater gut the entire bureaucracy to the point were the states are more or autonomous by 1969. It is a very interesting time for a civil war and probably the last plausible time for one before Americans became fat af which mods like TFR do not take into account.
 
Chuckwagon said:
And even a Years of Lead America could arguably make for a fun game, just not a HOI4 mod (since it would be more-so about internal espionage, politicking & riot suppression than, y'know, a war game).
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Are you sure it can’t just be another labor and time intensive GUI mini game? Players love needlessly convoluted PP sinks that make you play the game at 3x speed so you don’t miss a cooldown!
 
Chuckwagon said:
it's not like Wilson actually not lying about staying neutral in WW1
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In KR's case it's perfectly plausible because Wilson needed an actual incident to get support to bring America into war. That was entirely on the Germans, who had to blunder into it twice for there to be enough political will for intervention.
 
Mussolini’s Merkin said:
Are you sure it can’t just be another labor and time intensive GUI mini game? Players love needlessly convoluted PP sinks that make you play the game at 3x speed so you don’t miss a cooldown!
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make sure your dogass mod crashes and memory leaks every time i reload a save, so i have to restart my whole computer to make the game run at speed again
 
Aisin Gioro Puyi said:
make sure your dogass mod crashes and memory leaks every time i reload a save, so i have to restart my whole computer to make the game run at speed again
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I've never had an issue with HOI4 having memory leaks. Hell, the Clausewitz engine outside of being retarded when it comes to core utilization is actually pretty stable, and when mods DO crash it's because of an error on the part of the mod dev or incompatibility with another mod.
 
Sooty Soot said:
I've never had an issue with HOI4 having memory leaks. Hell, the Clausewitz engine outside of being retarded when it comes to core utilization is actually pretty stable, and when mods DO crash it's because of an error on the part of the mod dev or incompatibility with another mod.
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OWB has been consistently crashing for me for two years anytime you load a save during the game, and it leaks memory to a degree where the game will literally run at 1/4 the speed it normally does after you restart the game multiple time
OWB is the only mod that has this problem and they claim its a paradox issue
 
Aisin Gioro Puyi said:
OWB has been consistently crashing for me for two years anytime you load a save during the game, and it leaks memory to a degree where the game will literally run at 1/4 the speed it normally does after you restart the game multiple time
OWB is the only mod that has this problem and they claim its a paradox issue
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I had the speed issue happen to me on the last OWB game, but I think it was the first time.

The crash on load seems to be a pretty common occurrence across mods though, happens for me all the time with OWB and KX and on occasion with others. The only mod I’ve never had it happen with is EaW.
 
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