Undertale

[SteelPlatedHeart]

I hope to christ this happens and Toby explores Noelle's interest in Susie. Deltarune feels more to me like Toby is trying to deconstruct what he brought to the table with Undertale and Undyne and Alphys having the idealistic lesbian relationship shouldn't be excluded from that. The only problem is the fact that the game is being released bit by bit so as of now all I'm seeing is Toby shoving lesbian shit down our throats to the point where it messes with the pace of the story. As I said before: if you're going to add this sort of relationship and put lots of emphasis on it to your work (excluding porn because viewers are there strictly to watch others get it on) then you must give the audience a reason to care about the two characters becoming lovers - otherwise it feels more like pandering.

The next release is supposed to be three chapters instead of one, so I’d imagine it’ll feel more paced out. And Noelle definitely as some overarching importance to the plot, since the “Genocide” route in this once was entirely focused on what The Player(as Kris) made Noelle do and her coming to realize the existence of The Player.

At the end of the Weird Route’s final boss, it says “Kris called for Susie/Ralsie” with no luck, but when it comes to Noelle, the texts reads “You called for Noelle” and, under the say of The Player’s control, Noelle shows up and kills the final boss.

So I definitely think Noelle and who she is is a big part of the plot.

 

[Nauseated Courgi]

The next release is supposed to be three chapters instead of one, so I’d imagine it’ll feel more paced out. And Noelle definitely as some overarching importance to the plot, since the “Genocide” route in this once was entirely focused on what The Player(as Kris) made Noelle do and her coming to realize the existence of The Player.

At the end of the Weird Route’s final boss, it says “Kris called for Susie/Ralsie” with no luck, but when it comes to Noelle, the texts reads “You called for Noelle” and, under the say of The Player’s control, Noelle shows up and kills the final boss.

So I definitely think Noelle and who she is is a big part of the plot.

Though, that does begs the question: if it's to be assumed that the soul is suppose to be the embodiment of The Player, then what does it mean Kris rips us out of him?

 

[SteelPlatedHeart]

 

[Dumpster dived waifu]

The next release is supposed to be three chapters instead of one, so I’d imagine it’ll feel more paced out.

So next time it'll be chapters 3,4,5 leaving 6 & 7 for an even later date? I'm typically not against episodic content, but the gaps in time between releases means I'm just going to forget what all happened last time. And since I don't want to avoid spoilers for the released part while replaying everything before it, I'm not going to replay any of it.

 

[SteelPlatedHeart]

So next time it'll be chapters 3,4,5 leaving 6 & 7 for an even later date? I'm typically not against episodic content, but the gaps in time between releases means I'm just going to forget what all happened last time. And since I don't want to avoid spoilers for the released part while replaying everything before it, I'm not going to replay any of it.

As I understand it, Toby has an actual team working with him now to make the game, so the next set should come out a bit faster. In addition, it will also be the point when he actually starts charging for the game rather than release them for free.

 

[Dumpster dived waifu]

As I understand it, Toby has an actual team working with him now to make the game, so the next set should come out a bit faster. In addition, it will also be the point when he actually starts charging for the game rather than release them for free.

I don't want to rush the man because I overall like his stuff, but I can only wait so much.

As for the charging for the next parts, I've never been bothered by spending money to support stuff I like. If the next segment isn't something I like, I'll either forego the final segment (assuming buying the next segment doesn't also get me the final segment), or just stop supporting Toby.

 

[Ser Prize]

There's more to Deltarune than the "lesbian teen drama". Even if it's cringe, it's not enough to ruin the experience. Maybe Toby will screw things up in the next three chapters but we'll have to wait until then. For now, all I can say is that one of the last things I remember from Undertale is the lesbian romance subplot. One of the first things is Sans "Megalovania" Undertale.


The reasonable response to a counterargument. You could've elaborated upon what you said a little rather than throwing out accusations like that.

Maybe it's building to something, that I'll give you. But I noticed that fan writers are a part now. I used to be into the Homestuck fandom in my late teenage years, which became the Undertale fandom, and I'll tell you that the Suzie/Noelle thing is exactly what I'd expect a fan to write. And someone who likes "uwu lesbians" to eat up, to the point of saying "you guys are retarded for disliking it".

Maybe I'm wrong. I hope I am. But I doubt I am.

 

[Mary the Goldsmith]

Though, that does begs the question: if it's to be assumed that the soul is suppose to be the embodiment of The Player, then what does it mean Kris rips us out of him?

I think its Kris rejecting the player's control, in chapter 1 if you try to play the piano at the hospital it sounds like slamming of keys, and the receptionist asks what's wrong as since Kris can normally play the piano rather well, in chapter 2 if you do the same Suzie says "I didn't know you could play the piano" and after the slamming sound is heard she asks "what's with the pissed off look" implying that the player is somehow preventing kris from being able to play properly. Furthermore after the Spamton Neo fight (in the normal route), Kris seems visibly disturbed prompting Ralsei and Susie to ask if Kris is ok, if you reply yes, it is implied that Kris is being forced to answer yes, and if you answer No Kris will yell out the response. During the battle Spamton NEO constantly talks about wanting to cut his strings to be free and apparently Kris empathized with him to the point of realizing they are a puppet too. As to why Kris doesn't just remove the soul forever it seems to have some negative effects on him as all 3 times he removes the soul, he is seen walking as if he was injured or weakened,

 

[Poop A Loop]

So next time it'll be chapters 3,4,5 leaving 6 & 7 for an even later date? I'm typically not against episodic content, but the gaps in time between releases means I'm just going to forget what all happened last time. And since I don't want to avoid spoilers for the released part while replaying everything before it, I'm not going to replay any of it.

This seems to be a problem with episodic releases in general.

The same excuses like "the architecture is already built now so it'll be faster to build parts 2 and 3" are trotted out for things like FF7 remake or were for the walking dead games and it amounted to nothing because, like with FF7:R, you can't even get a release date for what was supposed to be a quick turnaround for part 2.

I've just learned to write off episodic games until they're actually done because fuck dealing with serial cliffhangers that don't get resolved until years later.

 

[Nauseated Courgi]

This seems to be a problem with episodic releases in general.

The same excuses like "the architecture is already built now so it'll be faster to build parts 2 and 3" are trotted out for things like FF7 remake or were for the walking dead games and it amounted to nothing because, like with FF7:R, you can't even get a release date for what was supposed to be a quick turnaround for part 2.

I've just learned to write off episodic games until they're actually done because fuck dealing with serial cliffhangers that don't get resolved until years later.

The problem with that comparison is that the production value of FF7:R and Telltale's games is much higher than Deltarune's. As impressive as the game can be, it still a 2D pixel game and takes way less effort to be designed. Combine that with the fact that Toby has a team him with this and I'd say we won't need to wait that long.

Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if, eight months from now, they're nearly finished with chapter 4.

 

[Blue Creature]

The problem with that comparison is that the production value of FF7:R and Telltale's games is much higher than Deltarune's. As impressive as the game can be, it still a 2D pixel game and takes way less effort to be designed. Combine that with the fact that Toby has a team him with this and I'd say we won't need to wait that long.

Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if, eight months from now, they're nearly finished with chapter 4.

I think for me at least; Deltarune has improved the base game-play of Undertale by a large margin. I think it's mechanics as a improved version of what Toby did in UT, also the sprite art is a bit better; still it could be better.

 

[MightyBiteySnake]

I think its Kris rejecting the player's control, in chapter 1 if you try to play the piano at the hospital it sounds like slamming of keys, and the receptionist asks what's wrong as since Kris can normally play the piano rather well, in chapter 2 if you do the same Suzie says "I didn't know you could play the piano" and after the slamming sound is heard she asks "what's with the pissed off look" implying that the player is somehow preventing kris from being able to play properly. Furthermore after the Spamton Neo fight (in the normal route), Kris seems visibly disturbed prompting Ralsei and Susie to ask if Kris is ok, if you reply yes, it is implied that Kris is being forced to answer yes, and if you answer No Kris will yell out the response. During the battle Spamton NEO constantly talks about wanting to cut his strings to be free and apparently Kris empathized with him to the point of realizing they are a puppet too. As to why Kris doesn't just remove the soul forever it seems to have some negative effects on him as all 3 times he removes the soul, he is seen walking as if he was injured or weakened,

My personal theory is that the Soul is Kris and you are Kris. There's a lot of subtle differences in the narration of the game compared to Undertale's which make the differences between Frisk and the player much more clear. I think Toby's making whether "Kris" is the vessel or the Soul ambiguous on purpose, in a twist on UT's meta-narrative of named player characters.

A lot of the points towards the player/Soul not bring Kris can be rationalized one way or another. For example, a lot of people talk about the "keyboard slamming" on the piano but we're only ever allowed to try and play a piano that's explicitly described as "being shrunk down and missing keys". If you took a master pianist and sat them down in front of a piano with less than half the keys and said "yeah I'm not sure what's what here" it'd probably sound like key smashing too. Further, Kris's reaction after Spamton NEO could easily be the reaction of the Soul, not the body. The vessel clearly has no problem doing nasty and questionable things and more importantly, Frisk never has active party members in UT. We never know if, for example, Frisk/the player has a visibly adverse reaction to the Amalgams because we never have anyone around to notice or describe it. Lastly, I see a lot of people ignore that all signs point to "Kreepy Kris" being the default for Kris, and your influence to help them make friends be unusual and weird. The flavor text for the birdcage implies that the Soul has been in the vessel for a very long time, and has been able to remove the soul for about that long. Alphys also says that "Kris usually only sleeps during the first half of class" implying that the vessel has been off doing late night shenanigans for quite a while.

The problem with that comparison is that the production value of FF7:R and Telltale's games is much higher than Deltarune's. As impressive as the game can be, it still a 2D pixel game and takes way less effort to be designed. Combine that with the fact that Toby has a team him with this and I'd say we won't need to wait that long.

Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if, eight months from now, they're nearly finished with chapter 4.

Frankly I wouldn't be surprised if they weren't finished with chapter 4 now and play testing it. A lot of people I think underestimate the difference in time between a game "being done" and "going gold". Granted I don't know how big of a play testing group Tobys games go thru since things like the "funny cheat" get through, but the point stands. Toby has gone on record saying delays of the game were due to "issues with the engine" so assuming the release of chapter 2 means they got past that. These tweets (apart of this tweet chain) are from early to mid 2020

and we just got Chapter 2 now, in late 2021, I'm going to guess that they made the decision to release chapter 2 as a demo around April and finished testing the new build around late July, maybe sooner. I'm gonna guess we get chapters 3-5 around this time next year, if not sooner.

 

[Cryogonal]

A lot of the points towards the player/Soul not bring Kris can be rationalized one way or another. For example, a lot of people talk about the "keyboard slamming" on the piano but we're only ever allowed to try and play a piano that's explicitly described as "being shrunk down and missing keys". If you took a master pianist and sat them down in front of a piano with less than half the keys and said "yeah I'm not sure what's what here" it'd probably sound like key smashing too.

In chapter 1, the monster in the hospital lobby comments that Kris is usually really good with that piano.

 

[Kulee Baba]

I played Chapter 1 for the first time this week followed by Chapter 2. I thought Chapter 1 was pretty great, Lancer was hilarious serving as a childlike Sans style friendly antagonist. It felt like Toby's writing improved quite a bit from the first game. If I had to complain the fights were all pretty easy, I never got a game over which I regularly did in Undertale but I have to remember that it is just the first chapter of what will be a much longer game.

Chapter 2 though, felt we went one step forward, two steps back. Fights were way more interesting, still never had a game over but I had to use healing quite often. Oh and the Digital City they made is easily the best looking level they've made yet. And I thought Berdly and the Queen were fun little characters and I enjoyed their comic relief. But HOLY SHIT I don't care about gay romance with little 16-bit style sprites. I get it you gotta make the gays happy because they buy the Undertale merchandise like it's going out of style but holy shit all this lesbian romance between Noelle and Susie was so BORING. I really didn't care that Alphys and the Fish Monster were gay in Undertale because that basically took up one cutscene, the Noelle/Susie shit felt like 30 minutes. I just held down the shift key and started skipping it at the end. Chapter 2 for how good it was visually just straight up needed an editor to cut shit down. How many times did we have to do the Tea Cup Elevator sequence? I'm guessing it was at least 10 sequences. Did we need so many mouse puzzles? Come on Toby what made Undertale good was that gimmicks rarely overstayed their welcome, once you beat a puzzle 2 or 3 times it should be cast aside.

Steam says I played it for over 7 hours. So really I can't be too bitchy for a currently free game taking so much time and when Deltarune is good it's stellar. I just wish I could get rid of Noelle and have Berdly be my party member.

 

[Coolio55]

have Berdly be my party member.

They really should have fucking done this. Just imagine what kind of dumb group attacks you could incorporate him into.
What bizarre magic would he cast? How would he and the enemies react to one-another? What funny lines would he have?
I suppose they couldn't really do that because he's technically hired by the queen (or rather forced her to hire him) and he wouldn't attack his own minions.

 

[Nauseated Courgi]

How many times did we have to do the Tea Cup Elevator sequence? I'm guessing it was at least 10 sequences. Did we need so many mouse puzzles? Come on Toby what made Undertale good was that gimmicks rarely overstayed their welcome, once you beat a puzzle 2 or 3 times it should be cast aside.

Really? Those were some of the more fun stuff for me. Especially for the mouse puzzles considering that one is completely optional and the other is cute minigame. It only started wearing me down when I started the chapter over to see more of it's content.

 

[Gru]

They really should have fucking done this. Just imagine what kind of dumb group attacks you could incorporate him into.
What bizarre magic would he cast? How would he and the enemies react to one-another? What funny lines would he have?
I suppose they couldn't really do that because he's technically hired by the queen (or rather forced her to hire him) and he wouldn't attack his own minions.

I feel like there was so much more that could have been done with Berdly, he's easily the best character in this chapter and I gladly would have swapped him with Noelle.

I'd imagine him joining the party to save Noelle from Queen, and gradually developing into that sort of smug, smartass friend of the group, while taking the same lesson in humility he does in Chapter 2 already. He's genuinely hilarious and I love his antics. I get what Noelle's whole arc is going for but it really dragged for me. I honestly couldn't give less of a shit that she's a lesbian, if her scenes dragged just as much with a male partner I would still be complaining because god that fucking ferris wheel scene was so boring and should have been cut in half at the very least.

 

[MightyBiteySnake]

In chapter 1, the monster in the hospital lobby comments that Kris is usually really good with that piano.

An alternative interpretation is that a tiny person (a child) would play a tiny child just fine but an average sized person wouldn't. Tony loves his red herrings (and double red herrings)

 

[mario if smoke weed]

They really should have fucking done this. Just imagine what kind of dumb group attacks you could incorporate him into.
What bizarre magic would he cast? How would he and the enemies react to one-another? What funny lines would he have?
I suppose they couldn't really do that because he's technically hired by the queen (or rather forced her to hire him) and he wouldn't attack his own minions.

It'll happen eventually, hopefully. Dude has one of the best theme songs so I don't see why he can't have his time to shine. There's 5 chapters to go, anything can happen. And who knows, maybe Toby will do some stuff for the fans.

 

[X-Shaped Weeaboo]

I wasn't a fan of the budding romance between Susie and Noelle either, but Jesus I feel like there's some next level sperging about a relationship that isn't actually established yet moreso than anything that can actually be considered a problem with Chapter 2.

I get it, not the most attractive part of the game so far, but it's also only Chapter 2 out of 7. We're not even sure the two will actually hook up by the end given Toby's love of twists and subversions. Maybe let it ride a little instead of have it dictate your entire experience?