Russian Invasion of Ukraine (2022): Thread 1 - Ukrainian Liars vs Russian Liars with Air and Artillery Superiority

[Greyfield]

All the New York Times which initially denied all the claims of Ukrainian genocide we should trust them this time

I love the stalinist apologists the Justice hilarious is the people who deny Mouse genocide it's not a genocide because you know it may have been targeted at a specific region of the country but it was just a general famine

And yes it was 10 million ukrainians that starve to death due to targeted theft of their grain

And Joseph Stalin was a terrible leader who nearly lost the entire country and had to go crying to the capitalist West for weapons

NYTimes isn't a source for those numbers. Read literally any reputable historian and they'll tell you it wasn't 10 million. Even the absolute hack moron Anne Applebaum will say it was less than half than that, and she's the most vocal genocide claimant in the field.

And Stalin took a backwards peasant country that lost to both Japan (1905) and Germany (1917) in quick succession, and turned it into an industrialized nuclear armed superpower that crushed both Germany and Japan (Manchuria campaign) in a single generation. Oh, they got help from the West? That diplomatic maneuvering to ensure said help didn't come out of nowhere, and something the Nazis weren't even capable of really doing with the Axis "alliance". How strong is the Axis if Stalin can get the Japanese to sign a nonagression pact with him, that they honour even as their "ally", Germany, goes to war with the Soviet Union? Diplomacy is a big part of warfare, and nobody played that better than Stalin.

Napoleon died a pathetic and broken man, exiled to a tiny Island because being a brilliant commander means jack shit if you turn everyone against you. Stalin died as the head of a massive Eurasian empire, winning the biggest war that was ever fought, and seeing his country through a whole industrial revolution in a tenth of the time other nations did. Was Stalin a good man? No way in hell. Was he a Great Man? Absolutely.

 

[Sped Xing]

I wonder if they really do think they can fight an entire war with just soyboys that press a button in an air conditioned building half way across the world from the "fight."

They've thought this since the 1930s at least.

 

[BrokLesnerd]

Remember when this same "crisis" occurred during the Obama years and nothing happened?

Pepperidge Farm remembers.

Remember in 2007 when Putin called Bush and asked if Bush would help him invoke a false cold-war to stimulate the Russian Economy and Bush went "lol no"?

Pepperidge Farm remembers.

Nothing is going to happen.

Yeah, but who believes it or is willing to go right now?

With trust in government and legacy media at an all-time low, and the Biden regime treating literally half the country (the half that usually is first to enlist) as Kulaks, they'd need a 9/11-style crisis that would make Putin the next Bin Laden/Saddam to get Americans to give a shit.

...*gulp*...

No, they'll just say that you don't have to wear masks or get the vax if you serve in Ukraine and a bunch of people will rush out.

 

[BrokLesnerd]

In their defense, their worries about invasion from the west are not without merit. We do all remember Hitler’s Eastern Front, right? Napoleon anybody? The first thing any European petty dictator does is drive East to Moscow with delusions of Supreme Grandeur. Nobody knows why, not even Russian’s actually like Moscow.

Same mentality as US purchasing Alaska from the Russian Empire.

No foreign governments on the same land-mass.

 

[mindlessobserver]

Tangentially, why is Russia thinking of starting a war on the Eastern European Steppe in the Middle of fucking winter? That alone makes me question how serious Putin is about doing this right now.

 

[Smolrolls]

Tangentially, why is Russia thinking of starting a war on the Eastern European Steppe in the Middle of fucking winter? That alone makes me question how serious Putin is about doing this right now.

Although to be fair, attack when & where your enemy least expects you to attack: much like how the Nazis didn’t expect Normandy to be invaded near a storm.

Also Russia gets invaded during winter, Russia invaded you during winter.

 

[Xiamara the Mare]

During the 1st cold war, if the CCCP wanted they could have invaded and won. BAOR in Germany was there to win time so the elite could go to America and leave the plebs to learn Russian. If they hand out guns to defend Europe, I would gladly defend my home from any aggressors.

 

[DumbDude42]

Tangentially, why is Russia thinking of starting a war on the Eastern European Steppe in the Middle of fucking winter? That alone makes me question how serious Putin is about doing this right now.

fighting in winter isn't impossible, it's pretty manageable if your troops and your equipment are prepared for it, and russia of all countries probably has that preparation down to near perfection

 

[George Lucas]

Tangentially, why is Russia thinking of starting a war on the Eastern European Steppe in the Middle of fucking winter? That alone makes me question how serious Putin is about doing this right now.

We don’t know what Russia is thinking. This is all coming from US intelligence. Russia has not made any threatening actions. Doing military exercises on or near your borders is not threatening, but apparently the US wants every country it doesn’t like to treat its own borders like a DMZ.

Russia invaded Georgia in the summer and Crimea in February, but keep in mind Russia is really fucking cold and is basically winter nine months out of the year. February in Crimea is basically summer in Moscow.

 

[Pope Julius IV]

As for other former Soviet countries like Belarus, Moldova, and Kazakhstan, they're more than willing to join an alliance with Russia.

Dude Moldova hates Russia for propping up transnistria

 

[Badungus Kabungus]

Dude Moldova hates Russia for propping up transnistria

Too bad. Just last month Moldova was begging Russia to give them an extension to pay off their debt to Gazprom, which Russia granted. They're depending on Russia so they'll play ball.

https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/gazprom-says-it-has-agreed-not-to-stop-gas-sales-to-moldova-waits-for-payments

 

[iNEEDthatMoney]

And the famine wasn't an intentional killing of a specific region, it was more about selling as much grain as possible so they could industrialize even if people ended up dying

I call BS, the mad dash to sell as much grain as possible was Stalin's plans to take over Europe by stacking his army to insane proportions. Having tens of millions of people being killed by the famine, that he considered his enemies, was just a bonus for him.

Even even bartered the grain for schematics for military wares from the Germany.

When WWII did start, his army was nearly bigger than all of Germany, France & Britain combined. Same with his military weapons & vehicles, which were also more advanced than anything the Germans or British had.
If Stalin was even semi-competent in military tactics, he would have crushed Germany & rolled his way all across Europe.

 

[iNEEDthatMoney]

Earlier this year, for example, Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelenskyy imposed the most draconian restrictions on opposition media Europe has seen since the fall of the Soviet Union. With the stroke of a pen, he shut down three popular opposition news channels, employing more than a thousand journalists and support staff. Tellingly, the United States supported this egregious act of political censorship as a “defense of its sovereignty and territorial integrity.”

Although numerous Ukrainian legal scholars have pointed out that the president does not have the authority to shut down any media outlet without a court order, Zelenskyy has gotten around this by retroactively annulling the appointment of the head of the Constitutional Court, and ignoring the Supreme Court’s decision to reinstate him.

Emboldened by this success, a few months later, Zelenskyy shut down the country’s most popular opposition news site Strana.ua,

Wow. I did not know that.

No wonder why he is loved so much in the West. The big tech companies are looking at his leadership in complete censorship & see if it is possible to get away with it.

 

[Greyfield]

I call BS, the mad dash to sell as much grain as possible was Stalin's plans to take over Europe by stacking his army to insane proportions. Having tens of millions of people being killed by the famine, that he considered his enemies was just a bonus for him.

Even even bartered the grain for schematics for military wares from the Germany.

When WWII did start, his army was nearly bigger than all of Germany, France & Britain combined. Same with his military weapons & vehicles, which were also more advanced than anything the Germans had.
If Stalin was even semi-competent in military tactics, he would have crushed Germany & rolled his way all across Europe.

The famine wasn't talked about as a success among the Soviet Leadership. Whether you think it helped them or not is irrelevant, they didn't think it was a good thing and it wasn't a goal they had in mind. They wanted to subjugate thos people, not kill them all.

As for the military leadership, you're right. Stalin was a military diletente, his skills were political. That said, it's often overstated how bad his military leadership was in comparison to his top commanders, who were all pretty mediocre. All of them fundamentally didn't understand blitzkrieg, which was one area Stalin grapsed better than Zhukov. But military talent is an overrated tool for a tyrant, when political smarts and maneuvering serves one better. Just ask Napoleon.

Stalin as a wartime leader is best explained through this incredible lecture by Stephen Kotkin:

 

[rage against modernity]

Tangentially, why is Russia thinking of starting a war on the Eastern European Steppe in the Middle of fucking winter? That alone makes me question how serious Putin is about doing this right now.

A winter war wouldn't have the same amount of attrition as they did in the past.

 

[Keystone]

Remember when this same "crisis" occurred during the Obama years and nothing happened?

I remember when Russia annexed another country's territory and the bitchmade limp dick in the Oval Office shat himself and did nothing. You're correct that nothing major, like a full invasion, happened afterwards, but I wouldn't call an annexation nothing.

Nothing is going to happen.

I agree. Though even if we're wrong it's not like the demented fraud currently in the Oval Office would do anything about it.

 

[Glowie Hunter Art Bell]

Oh cool its Battlefield 3 irl.

In all seriousness, probably just sabre rattling OR repeat of the mid 2010s when Russia did this same shit

WW3 will never happen because the globalist powers that be would never sacrifice their relative utopias that exist today, nor would the mega corporations that they co-exist with

We'll just exist in a permanent faux-cold war for eternity

 

[Sexual Chocolate]

Tangentially, why is Russia thinking of starting a war on the Eastern European Steppe in the Middle of fucking winter? That alone makes me question how serious Putin is about doing this right now.

I don't think there's gonna be a war just more gay peace, but it's not 1812 or 1941 anymore, no particular reason not to fight in winter when you have fully mechanised armies with NVG, winter gear, all-weather aerial, satellite reconnaissance and good supply lines that are less dependent on seasonal crops.

If it does come to war, Putin wants to be able to use the off button on Russian gas to Europe as an effective weapon. He can only do that once and it's not much of a threat in summer.

Stalin fan @Greyfield has some good points about Uncle Joe. You can read his old speeches given to the Red Army, what's interesting is how smart and realistic the guy was, with a detailed grasp of relevant information and honest criticism of things the Soviets needed to get better at. Probably shouldn't be a surprise that a guy who outmaneuvered the most vicious sociopaths in the Bolshevik regime to win power, then outwitted Hitler, FDR and Churchill to create the biggest empire since Genghis Khan wasn't actually a raving lunatic giving bombastic 9 hour speeches about how great he is, but history likes to caricature people.

Also interesting is how tough the Red Army were in WW2. Took everybody by surprise, especially how they just shrugged off horrific casualties that would have caused any other country to break down. The Brits, Germans, Americans (except FDR) thought they were as good as dead when the Krauts rolled over their borders.

They were wrong partly because they were still thinking in terms of the last war, where the Russians were a meme. And partly because they underestimated the Communist regime - it was brutal, inefficient and self-harming, but it turned out smart, fanatical sociopaths with absolute power in their leadership and a strong desire not to become skull ashtrays in some SS officer's hunting lodge aren't pushovers. To what extent planning any new war with Russia will suffer from the similar historical misconceptions is anybody's guess.

 

[DumbDude42]

Also interesting is how tough the Red Army were in WW2. Took everybody by surprise, especially how they just shrugged off horrific casualties that would have caused any other country to break down. The Brits, Germans, Americans (except FDR) thought they were as good as dead when the Krauts rolled over their borders.

They were wrong partly because they were still thinking in terms of the last war, where the Russians were a meme. And partly because they underestimated the Communist regime - it was brutal, inefficient and self-harming, but it turned out smart, fanatical sociopaths with absolute power in their leadership and a strong desire not to become skull ashtrays in some SS officer's hunting lodge aren't pushovers. To what extent planning any new war with Russia will suffer from the similar historical misconceptions is anybody's guess.

people thought the soviets were weak because of their pathetic performance in the winter war of 1939/1940 where they failed to defeat finland, a very tiny nation with a very small army, and took extreme casualties in the process, but performance in an offensive invasion abroad does not necessarily predict performance in a defensive war on home soil.

the red army managed to use the vast soviet territory as strategic depth to stall the german advance long enough to turn the eastern front into a battle of attrition, which allowed allied superiority in materiel and resources to kick in and eventually overwhelm the germans.

 

[RainwaterDrop]

Horseshit, it's just Putin doing saber rattling again. In the state of "imminent war", Putin gets support at home, Ukraine gets western weaponry and equipment. If war happens Putin gets fucked with sanctions, takes casualties from the fighting and has to manage a territory populated by people who mostly hate Russia. Nobody wins from that!

Putin isn't a retard, he knows this would backfire at him!