For some reason I can't quote you
@CircuSphere so I have to do this the shitty way.
Good points but if we start letting people off the hook now it just perpetuates the system instead of crashing it. People need to learn that student loans are still loans, the only way people learn is consequences. The government never ever gives up a revenue stream as you have illustrated, that battle is lost. We have to restore the balance of power between the employable departments (and the rest of society for that matter) and the fagademics. We have to crash the system and the only way this happens is to let people wear their women's studies degree shaped albatrosses around their necks. It's not like the state isn't porking me at every turn and I didn't fuck up my life chasing careers I wasn't cut out for or smoking myself stupid at art school (I smoked myself stupid productively dammit!). Don't complain to me barista, let the glassy eyed communist acolyte on the line from your Alma Matter know how you feel when they call up for donations.
Ps. I have a dumb degree from a state school, it's all bullshit, there are a handful of people doing very hard work who will have no problem paying those loans but most of these kids are retards just looking for sex and prestige. They want to live in nice apartments, play sports ball, do as little work as possible and do everything in their power not to think of the future at all. It's a piece of paper that says "I manged to skate through desk work without drinking myself to death in 4 years."
The problem with student loans starts with our shitty high school education system.
I've been out of high-school for over a decade and I STILL remember the entire school guidance system hammering college into you at even the sophomore level. Its just bashed into you over and over and over again. If you looked at a trade school, you were considered an automatic failure. (This was before governmental programs where private/federal student loans were competing and before the 2008 crash). Literally every person in my life told me to not worry about the money, you'll get an excellent job, we'll help you pay for it. At this point I was an undiagnosed major depressive disorder, with generalized anxiety and Obsessive-Compulsive Personality Disorder (this means I need everything to be perfect and beautiful, even at the cost of time. Basically just think hardcore professionalism. If something isn't perfect for me, it annoys the fuck out of me and I will spend unnecessary time and money to get it that way. Honestly, hardcore perfectionism like this personality disorder is rampant in upper echelons in academia. Yes, these conditions are all now diagnosed and I am medicated). So now, you're telling a currently untreated medically ill teen who gets panic attacks if something isn't perfect that he needs to work towards that he needs to go to the best school possible. That if he doesn't go to the highest ranked school, everyone will look down on him and mock him. And I was hardcore bullied, so that terrified me. So I picked a very good, but expensive undergrad. Big mistake. Biggest mistake of my life. I had two other smaller, lesser known private schools. One with a full ride and one who would pay 75%. But again, I was a kid. People who are primarily making these choices.
In the era I went, mental illness in guys was still highly stigmatized and you'd get shit on regularly for it, so you just had to suck it up and deal. So you're basically allowing a mentally ill teenager with social anxiety to make a decision that will affect the next 40 years of their lives with little to no recourse if they fuck up. If you think that's a fair system, you're a troll or a retard.
Enough power-leveling. The problem generally goes back to the purpose of college. Universities are NOT designed as job factories. They'll deny it even today. Universities are where wealthy people could send their kids to gain knowledge and contribute to the knowledge of the world. Even for smart poor people who wanted to be engineers and doctors, it was really hard. For example, surgeons were considered a blue collar and lower class position because you actually had to touch people. That's basically what it was like. That's what the university system was founded upon. Knowledge for Knowledge's sake. Eventually, you had community universities pop up that were cheaper, but were more job focused. These would be your community and state colleges, where the goal was improving your job standing. These still existed with the 'ivory tower' schools. Somewhere along the line, the ivory tower schools merged with this idea of preparing students for the job market. But they never really did, so you have a lot of boutique degrees like Beyoncé Studies sitting next to Chemical Engineering.
The main problem comes with that 'all degrees are equal'. This isn't so. (At least not on the graduate level). There is a limit you can take out on student loans. Its complicated. Which is the point. Since I'm considered a STEM, I can max out my loan limit at 138k to 250k borrowed (I pray to God I will never need to). This is because it is taking my future salary into consideration. I do remember, this used to be the way private loans used to operate before the bankruptcy bullshit. They'd require you to put down your degree and base it on that.
The thing is, what we need is to combine the bureau of labor statistics along with the federal student loan program for undergrad. Depending on the type of degree with job options, there should be an algorithm that calculates how much the government will give you. So you're not ending up with barista's with 60k in debt. I think this will solve lots of problems and foster economic development into degrees which we need.
And the hilarity of it is that a bachelor's degree will barely get you anywhere anymore. So you're spending crazy money on just an entry level degree. Its High School, version 2. For any Kiwis considering college, I have some loan free, inexpensive tips:
1) DO NOT NEGLECT COMMUNITY COLLEGE: Community college courses are incredibly cheap and you can probably pay them off working a minimum wage job. These will expose you to a lot of different fields without having to muddle through choosing a degree. A lot of community colleges also offer a two-year degree called an Associates. Some Associates let you work right away in fields, so if you don't want to spend a lot of money and want to get to working, but are nervous on the educational front, get an associates. You can work, figure stuff out and then finish off your last two years at a college to get your bachelors.
2) EXPENSIVE SCHOOLS ARE NOT WORTH IT. FUCK THE IVIES: I mentioned before in my previous post, but schools are massively inflating their prices to compete with each other as an illusion of quality. Small private schools are now demanding upwards of 50-60k and premium private schools are at an astronomical 75k per year. These are not worth it. At all. My old private school I went to went from 32k a year to 78k. Here's what you do: Apply to schools you think you have an interest in. State Schools, schools nearby. Don't be seduced by the adventure of going far away to college and living there. Dorm life is trash, because people are disgusting. Try to stay as close to home as possible. This might actually save you 15-20k.
Do not do meal-plans. Drive if you must. Rent off-campus housing.
3) DO YOUR RESEARCH FAGGOT: Something my jailbait ass never did. But then again, a lot of this shit wasn't out there. Find out what programs are there. Find out who the professors are. Find out how big they are, when did they start. E-mail faculty, students, administrators. See if it is what you want. Also, this is important, you have to know this or have an idea:
What is the rate of employment six months after graduation? This is the only question that matters (if they have what you want).
This is extremely important. If they waffle, they're hiding numbers. If they at least have an estimate, you're good. Obviously you're going to have to compromise. So you have to strike a balance between the program you want and cost. The three factors you should go by are: How Good is the Program, Six-Month Employment Rate After Graduation and Cost (include travel and housing) and Graduation Rate. Those are the four important factors.
4) SWALLOW YOUR PRIDE: You just got admitted to a school no one has ever heard of. It has a decent program and graduation rate and employment rate. They're giving you a free ride. Fucking. go. I don't care if your brother went to Columbia (80k) and your parents see you as a disappointment. Tell them to go fuck themselves. You will go, get a degree and come out owing little to no money. Maybe with a bit of credit card debt. But you will not be shackled by the monster known as student loans.
and lastly....
5) NEVER EVER EVER EVER GO TO A FOR-PROFIT SCHOOL: All for-profit schools are scams. For-profit schools are run by businesses like Devry, University of Pheonix, etc. Nobody considers these reals schools. Online schooling has gained more acceptance in the time of COVID but be EXTRODINARILY CAREFUL. My school has online degrees, but they're attached to a physical university. Online degrees are generally the most useful for people in continuing education or who want to pick up an extra skill. It looks good if you have a regular degree but it can still be a hinderance if online is your only degree.
That being said,
NEVER EVER EVER DO A FOR PROFIT SCHOOL. These places are death traps. They are privatized and prey on desperate people looking to better their lives. They push exorbitant student loans on their victims, which are then sold to Wallstreet, like mortgage backed securities. Avoid these for quite literally everything in your life. They are a complete scam.
6) CONSIDER A BACHELOR'S AS ENTRY LEVEL: If you're 21 and faced no hardship in your life, a Bachelors is not special. It is completely generic, everyone and their mother will have one. Its basically like the ticket to employment. The real thing you need to pick up in college: skills. As many fucking skills as you can get your hands on. Lab skills, programming skills, engineering skills. Try to search for as many hands-on internships as possible. Develop a sizeable skill base. Learn equipment. Tag along for research (not my research, fuck off), try to do something. This will greatly raise the bar for you in terms of job hunting, rather than the guy who sat around doing the bare minimum. Also network. Skills and networking. Especially if you don't want to go higher. It is possible to get good jobs with a bachelor's, but it basically requires hunting down as much hands on experience as humanly possible and getting proof of it.
I could go into graduate school, but this is my advice for undergrad.
