Manosphere Jordan Peterson - Internet Daddy Simulator, Post-modern Anti-postmodernist, Canadian Psychology Professor, Depressed, Got Hooked on Benzos

Shpongoolio Trismegistus said:
I appreciate the authenticity of your response.

Would you be opposed to me offering a counter argument? Only so as to further explore the position you've taken.
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I know forumposting is some new experience for you, but you can just post your thoughts and arguments without asking permission for them.
 
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ADN_VIII said:
Substance. Peterson is the king of verbosity. Self help books with 12 guidelines don't need to be 400 pages.

An example.
The big thing people use when discussing Peterson is the following rule: "Set your house in perfect order before you criticize the world."

On the face of it, this is a thought provoking concept. The average reader may look at this and ask themselves, "do I really have the grounds to make criticism of society/someone else/etc when my life isn't in perfect order?" and proceed to put any criticism or critique on the back burner to improve their own life.

However, even the most cursory exploration of the idea shows that it's not thought provoking, it's thought terminating. Scrutiny of the rule and how it's applied shows that it's easy to abuse in order to shut down discussion or criticism. If I criticize your actions or behavior, for sake of example, you could respond with the rule to attempt to get me to stop criticizing you.

Its a lazy, dishonest method to deter critique or commentary.
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Isn't this just an issue with self help books as a whole? They are essentially targeting a massive audience with an incredibly diverse set of problems and causes of those problems with a turnkey solution. Sure, there are usually related themes that people have that cause their issues, and you can address those, but that just leaves you with very vague and empty platitudes that are easy to say but hard to execute. The major sub sets of those overarching causes can be tackled, and that's where you get the 400+ pages, but usually those become too specific for most people to act upon, but their good for word and page count I suppose.

Self help is just a needlessly bloated industry and one people should be especially weary of grifters within.
 
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Lemmingwise said:
I know forumposting is some new experience for you, but you can just post your thoughts and arguments without asking permission for them.
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You retards keep retardedly downvoting my every post. At this rate I'm going to need to buy reddit gold.

I'm trying to be respectful, not everyone likes to have their stupid ideas torn to shreds, you know? It may earn me MORE downvotes.
 
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Shpongoolio Trismegistus said:
I appreciate the authenticity of your response.

Would you be opposed to me offering a counter argument? Only so as to further explore the position you've taken.
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If you like. Personally I'm not very convinced of the validity of Peterson's arguments as I've already examined them, but I appreciate a stimulating discourse.
 
Shpongoolio Trismegistus said:
You retards keep retardedly downvoting my every post. At this rate I'm going to need to buy reddit gold.

I'm trying to be respectful, not everyone likes to have their stupid ideas torn to shreds, you know? It may earn me MORE downvotes.
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Nigga what? If you don't like having your ideas torn to shreds maybe don't voice them to begin with. Once you put something out there anybody can critique. Granted kiwifarms is probably the only forum anymore that lets you call someones bullshit without causing a suicidal breakdown or some other shit. Something not even 4chan can achieve anymore.
 
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Retink said:
Isn't this just an issue with self help books as a whole? They are essentially targeting a massive audience with an incredibly diverse set of problems and causes of those problems with a turnkey solution. Sure, there are usually related themes that people have that cause their issues, and you can address those, but that just leaves you with very vague and empty platitudes that are easy to say but hard to execute. The major sub sets of those overarching causes can be tackled, and that's where you get the 400+ pages, but usually those become too specific for most people to act upon, but their good for word and page count I suppose.

Self help is just a needlessly bloated industry and one people should be especially weary of grifters within.
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To some degree, yes, being overly verbose is a known issue in self help books. Peterson is, in my opinion, excessively verbose in a field already plagued with textual diarrhea.

Thing is, I don't think he does it in writing intentionally to pad out his page counts. He talks too much as well. In his discussion with Matt Dillahunty on the topic of magic mushrooms, Peterson spends minutes waxing poetic about the topic and lots of little tangents that he doesn't need to cover and don't add to the conversation.

Listening to Peterson, to me, is like listening to a book being written stream of consciousness style by someone with superficial understanding of topics outside his specialist field. Taking Peterson seriously on clinical psychology? Probably a safe bet. Taking him seriously on climatology or epidemiology or something outside his field? Find an actual accredited expert instead.
 
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NewRetroVagina23 said:
One thing I will say is that I think you guys are way too hard on the guy over the benzo thing. For years in his own field of so-called "expertise" those damn things were not taken seriously and downplayed as relatively safe and harmless. More than one Yuppie parent found out the hard way just how untrue that is.
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I remember how hard peterson ecommended medication for various psych disorders and how hard the pushback was in the comments.

I think it's more the hiding it and the go to a russian backwater clinic to get braindamage that people really criticise of that arc.

Not that people can't hide things like that, but when someone presents themselves as having all the answers and pretends to give a very open look into their life (going on tv programs to talk abkut his depression) it really does cast a weird glow on the whole thing.
 
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Lemmingwise said:
I remember how hard peterson ecommended medication for various psych disorders and how hard the pushback was in the comments.

I think it's more the hiding it and the go to a russian backwater clinic to get braindamage that people really criticise of that arc.

Not that people can't hide things like that, but when someone presents themselves as having all the answers and pretends to give a very open look into their life (going on tv programs to talk abkut his depression) it really does cast a weird glow on the whole thing.
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Oh I agree that going to Russia of all places is super weird, I just think holding it against him for getting hooked in the first place is rather judgemental. As far as him "claiming to have all the answers", that's more an issue with psychology in general- some of the most fucked-up people you will ever meet are the same ones presuming to tell you what normal human behavior ought to be.
 
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Jordi El Nino Polla said:
Good luck with that. Half of them are insane, half are trying to get your kids and half keep to themselves and focus on their work.
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The half that keep to themselves and focus on their work are the ones worth talking to. A practicing surgeon is going to give better advice than Dr Oz because Oz is a showman more than a doctor.

Same thing applies to Peterson. He's not had a clinical practice in some years, why would you use him as a source on up to date clinical psychology when there are others you can contact?
 
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ADN_VIII said:
The half that keep to themselves and focus on their work are the ones worth talking to. A practicing surgeon is going to give better advice than Dr Oz because Oz is a showman more than a doctor.

Same thing applies to Peterson. He's not had a clinical practice in some years, why would you use him as a source on up to date clinical psychology when there are others you can contact?
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"Up to date clinical psychoogy"

How much has the field progressed since going absolutely batshit insane woke the past decade?
 
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NewRetroVagina23 said:
Oh I agree that going to Russia of all places is super weird, I just think holding it against him for getting hooked in the first place is rather judgemental. As far as him "claiming to have all the answers", that's more an issue with psychology in general- some of the most fucked-up people you will ever meet are the same ones presuming to tell you what normal human behavior ought to be.
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He doesn't admit he got hooked on benzos though. According to JP the benzos worked fine until he developed an unusual reaction which led to akathisia and other ailments and he had to keep taking pills to stop his health from deteriorating even thought he didn't want to. Which I obviously think is bullshit.
 
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marfusha said:
He doesn't admit he got hooked on benzos though. According to JP the benzos worked fine until he developed an unusual reaction which led to akathisia and other ailments and he had to keep taking pills to stop his health from deteriorating even thought he didn't want to. Which I obviously think is bullshit.
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Refresh my memory: was this the reaction he claimed to have to the cider, or...?
 
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NewRetroVagina23 said:
One thing I will say is that I think you guys are way too hard on the guy over the benzo thing. For years in his own field of so-called "expertise" those damn things were not taken seriously and downplayed as relatively safe and harmless. More than one Yuppie parent found out the hard way just how untrue that is.
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Absolutely goddamn not. This is a guy who said that drug addicts only need to find something better to do in order to end their addiction. He should have just found something better to do instead of popping benzos.

Addiction is a ludicrously complex subject that mostly lies outside his field of expertise. That statement alone should immediately tip off everyone that he doesn't know how addiction works at a chemical level in the brain or how the reward system works in the brain.
 
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NewRetroVagina23 said:
Refresh my memory: was this the reaction he claimed to have to the cider, or...?
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If I remember correctly JP was first prescribed benzos after the apple cider of impending doom accident. In 2020 Tammy got ill, JP upped his benzo dosage, developed akathisia as an adverse reaction, could not get off benzos using conventional methods and went to Russia to be put in a coma.
 
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