Serious LGBT Discussion

[Kenya Jones]

This is totally false, even for leftists. You cannot, for instance, dress in blackface. Nor can you unironically claim, as a white person, that you are "trans-black." You *will* be pressured not to """identify""" that way by everyone else, including liberals. The same goes, for instance, if I were to insist that I am in fact a dog, and thus it is perfectly fine for me to crawl through public parks on all fours, naked, and stopping every so often to piss on random objects.

This is a similar fallacy to the rightoid's insistence on "free speech absolutism." You do not believe in total freedom of "self expression." No one does, because such a notion is self-evidently absurd once you apply the barest minimum of critical thinking to it. What you believe is that people should get a special, arbitrary exception to "identify as whatever they want" when it comes to gender, even though you don't believe that similar lines of thinking are appropriate anywhere else in any respect (for instance, with regards to my "self identification" of race, height, species, etc.).

Do you think that is some kind of own? Yeah, very few people who say they are absolutists really are.

 

[gang weeder]

This is 80s/90s tier gay panic type shit. I know from your post history your background so you do seem to be on the nutty side but please, stay serious.

Are you actually claiming that leftist gender ideologues do not and would not encourage transsexuality or homosexuality in children, if given the opportunity? Just making sure before I bother to dig up examples of it in fact happening.

Giving your child PTSD is just another form of owning the libs.

Thank you for proving my point about absurdism and hyperbole. Sharing my beliefs with my child and not those of secular progressives = "giving your child PTSD."

Do you think that is some kind of own? Yeah, very few people who say they are absolutists really are.

I suppose you shouldn't have claimed to be one then. Glad we agree. Am I wrong in saying that you want an arbitrary exception only and specifically with regards to gender here?

 

[murph]

The LGBs are getting mighty sick of the TQs and I think there is a divorce on the horizon.

Who will get the kids?

 

[Kenya Jones]

Are you actually claiming that leftist gender ideologues do not and would not encourage transsexuality or homosexuality in children, if given the opportunity? Just making sure before I bother to dig up examples of it in fact happening.

While it definitely exists, the cases of this are beyond overplayed, but should still be discouraged.

Thank you for proving my point about absurdism and hyperbole. Sharing my beliefs with my child and not those of secular progressives = "giving your child PTSD."

You are not saying you are progressive, right?

I suppose you shouldn't have claimed to be one then. Glad we agree. Am I wrong in saying that you want an arbitrary exception only and specifically with regards to gender here?

Yes. The same way I say you should be allowed to fuck whoever you want as long as its consensual. That obviously does not include animals or children.

The LGBs are getting mighty sick of the TQs and I think there is a divorce on the horizon.

Who will get the kids?

Most likely not, most surveys done on this is actually a lot of support for trans people. There are a lot of stories though saying the opposite. I very much doubt there will be a divorce any time, especially since LGB rights have been hand in hand with trans rights for over a hundred years.

 

[gang weeder]

Yes. The same way I say you should be allowed to fuck whoever you want as long as its consensual. That obviously does not include animals or children.

Can you articulate why gender gets this special exception and nothing else? We can at least see the potential direct harm in fucking children, but there is no such apparent harm in simply identifying as "trans-black," for instance. Other than the fact that it will make a great deal of people very emotional and upset, but this objection would apply also to transgenderism, given that bare minimum half the country is Not Okay with transgenderism (and I would suspect the percent is considerably higher, but preference falsification is a thing).

 

[BelUwUga]

What is important about a person sexuality?

I seriously do not understand what you are meaning with this. I don't want to build up a strawman but are you trying to imply that LGBT kids are being abused?

You wish it'd be made of straw. I know I can find plenty of instances of alphabet mafia teachers pulling hinky moves to conceal things from parents. I likewise know I can find many, many cases of the LGBT both abusing kids and having a history of being abused. I'm not 100% on those two circles making a venn diagram, but I am more than willing to accept the results as they are if you insist on me providing sources. I'm being extremely generous in my phrasing because I am willing to accept the nuance that being abused doesn't make you LGBT and not every LGBT is an abuser. Pretending it does not exist is lunacy; and the levels at which it occurs and is covered up is alarmingly high. I'm more than willing to go down this road, I just figured this was an understood premise and I could save us the mileage.

To wit, even being aware of sex/sexualities can be a significant indicator for abuse at ages that are relevant here. Not a guarantee, but it is certainly a relevant detail. Unlike the school, or the teacher, the parents will know the child's medical/psych history and understand where their child is at all times. I'm not saying there is never a situation where the parent doesn't need to be cut out of the loop. However, that is not something I agree is sufficient resolution by itself. This is allowed to be a solution by itself by a relatively subjective and easily abused standard.

It is literally doing the opposite, that's why I mentioned how the law is now and how this new law would change this.

Alright, what legally actionable harm occurs to the victims in this situation. Would these imaginary victims be more or less protected by having an immediate investigation opened by CPS? I'm very familiar with the system in Florida and the way you frame it is situations where a child would not be released into unsupervised custody. There would be some form of at least initial contact.

The stuff that parents are legally allowed to do to their children is more than just hurt feelings, they are trauma inducing events. I am definitely not talking about a stern talking to after getting caught with your hand in the cookie jar, I'm talking about real lifelong emotional damage.

I'm sorry but trauma-inducing and hurt feelings mean exactly the same thing to me. Traumatizing events, like being raped, or having a body part blown away by a bomb, have quantifiable damage and real world consequences recognized by the law. It is highly unlikely that anyone makes it through life without some form of "lifelong emotional damage" happening because of one or both parents. In a more rational world it would be a lesson someone learns as they mature in that even the heroes they hold the highest are not perfect.

This is 80s/90s tier gay panic type shit. I know from your post history your background so you do seem to be on the nutty side but please, stay serious.

You're harming your own side by dismissing his concern as not being serious about this. It's a serious matter and there has been enough narrative from either side it's hard to be absolutely certain of almost anything. Anyways, if this is supposedly so unimportant, how could it possibly be so serious to you? Is the matter at hand unimportant or serious? If you really think his point is something to be entirely dismissed out-of-hand just let me know. I'll take that as an indication you want to see what I find when I look for the teacher/LGBT/crime overlap.

I think no 2nd grader should be being told about any type of sex when they are still trying to get the fundamentals of writing down. I do not even think the majority of the people arguing about that are angry that you cannot do that, I believe they are mad at the double standard that you cannot read a book that contains same-sex couplings in them.

See now the goalposts are shifting too. Is this all ages or only 2nd grade and up?

Giving your child PTSD is just another form of owning the libs.

It's funny in a very sad kind of way that you're rallying for a law that has a very real likelihood of leading to abuse if it is unchanged. It's neuroticism and delusion to think the redundant protection is worth opening this gigantic loophole. Some kid gets raped or molested and they just might actually get PTSD. If some kid manages to hit the sweet spot to where their parent's conduct is "trauma inducing" but not otherwise legally actionable abuse, and parley to "PTSD-like symptoms" from just that, they have CPTSD. Which any psych will tell you is just BPD with extra steps. Honestly I avoid associating with PTSD-people at all because of all the attention seeking BPD assholes, even though I've been told I actually have PTSD. They're honestly worse than your average faggot.

 

[HunterHearstHelmsley]

Though, I get the impression that you’re not totally okay with gender nonconformity.

I find that a phrasing problematic. In terms of whether it’s ‘OK’. There is nothing morally wrong in experiencing the feelings or questioning it. I do believe that SRS is mutilation of your body through chemical therapy or operations is fundamentally morally wrong but it’s a personal wrong which doesn’t immediately and directly impact others. It is however expensive and dangerous. Misrepresenting your sex is a lie and morally wrong in a way that does immediately and directly impact others. At the end of the day I think most transsexuals are acting in good faith and just trying to do their best with a shitty hand so it’s hard to condemn them but I do think it’s wrong.

Hopefully when you have a child it never comes to that. I know several trans people that had that treatment and only ended up transitioning later in life.

Hopefully it doesn’t. I would be extremely concerned that I’ve been an absent or unloving parent. I would be extremely concerned that unbeknownst to me somebody is or has sexually or physically abused them. If they choose to transition later in life and live to tell stories such as your friends, so be it. Obviously reports such as these are biased in that almost nobody who chooses not to transition is going to openly identify as such.

Especially since concealing those facts is often correlated with abuse of some sort.

I seriously do not understand what you are meaning with this. I don't want to build up a strawman but are you trying to imply that LGBT kids are being abused?

Latent LGBT kids are way more likely to be physically or sexually abused prior to ‘coming out’ as such. Latent trans kids more so. Trans adolescent are more likely to have experienced the death of a parent than adolescents in a psychiatric ward. I don’t think you’re strawmanning him.

 

[Kenya Jones]

Can you articulate why gender gets this special exception and nothing else? We can at least see the potential direct harm in fucking children, but there is no such apparent harm in simply identifying as "trans-black," for instance. Other than the fact that it will make a great deal of people very emotional and upset, but this objection would apply also to transgenderism, given that bare minimum half the country is Not Okay with transgenderism (and I would suspect the percent is considerably higher, but preference falsification is a thing).

That is actually a contentious subject within the trans community. I'd say a good 80% majority (if not more) are under the agreement that you can be MtF/FtM/NB but then you get into the more contentious subjects like bigender or genderfluid, followed by the mostly ridiculed subjects that have gotten into parody tier like faegender or like the xe/xim ze/zir pronouns. I definitely think that about half the country is against trans people though, you must remember that we were talking about the LGB community and those tend to be a lot more accepting of trans people than the rest of the population.

You wish it'd be made of straw. I know I can find plenty of instances of alphabet mafia teachers pulling hinky moves to conceal things from parents. I likewise know I can find many, many cases of the LGBT both abusing kids and having a history of being abused. I'm not 100% on those two circles making a venn diagram, but I am more than willing to accept the results as they are if you insist on me providing sources. I'm being extremely generous in my phrasing because I am willing to accept the nuance that being abused doesn't make you LGBT and not every LGBT is an abuser. Pretending it does not exist is lunacy; and the levels at which it occurs and is covered up is alarmingly high. I'm more than willing to go down this road, I just figured this was an understood premise and I could save us the mileage.

Ok thank you for finally clearing it up a little. Yes, absolutely LGBT people abuse kids, so do cis het people (and definitely more, just not proportionally) but that doesn't mean cis het people are child abusers. I also think that the idea that LGBT were almost all abused as children is definitely overblown, they are definitely proportionally more likely to be abused, but A. it isn't even close to the majority and B. it's very likely that it has more to do with stuff like LGBT kids being more shy and therefore a target for abusers.

Alright, what legally actionable harm occurs to the victims in this situation. Would these imaginary victims be more or less protected by having an immediate investigation opened by CPS? I'm very familiar with the system in Florida and the way you frame it is situations where a child would not be released into unsupervised custody. There would be some form of at least initial contact.

Legally actionable, questionably little, but do you not think that some things that are legal are not also going to cause lifelong trauma? How would you feel if you were a teacher, had to tell the parents, and you start noticing negative behavior changes in the child?

In a more rational world it would be a lesson someone learns as they mature in that even the heroes they hold the highest are not perfect.

That is just absurd, depression, anxiety, PTSD, suicidal ideation are usually the end product of either mental or emotional (or a lot of times both) harm.

You're harming your own side by dismissing his concern as not being serious about this. It's a serious matter and there has been enough narrative from either side it's hard to be absolutely certain of almost anything. Anyways, if this is supposedly so unimportant, how could it possibly be so serious to you? Is the matter at hand unimportant or serious? If you really think his point is something to be entirely dismissed out-of-hand just let me know. I'll take that as an indication you want to see what I find when I look for the teacher/LGBT/crime overlap.

You are right I guess I am hurting my side on that and I should be less dismissive. That whole issue is somewhat blown out of proportion but still is a strange and creepy new movement that is very very small. I am not for it to start off with, they are playing right into the exact thing about the 80s/90s moral panic stuff and that really isn't a good thing. As I said before about the whole Ted Cruz thing you should not hurt children to own the adults.

See now the goalposts are shifting too. Is this all ages or only 2nd grade and up?

No? What? He said 2nd grader so I said 2nd grader.

It's neuroticism and delusion to think the redundant protection is worth opening this gigantic loophole. Some kid gets raped or molested and they just might actually get PTSD.

DUDE WHAT!?!?!? A child's sexuality is not them getting fucking molested. Duuuude, how the fuck did you think that that is one and the same. That law does not say you have to withhold information on if the child is being FUCKING MOLESTED! C'mon now.

Hopefully it doesn’t. I would be extremely concerned that I’ve been an absent or unloving parent. I would be extremely concerned that unbeknownst to me somebody is or has sexually or physically abused them. If they choose to transition later in life and live to tell stories such as your friends, so be it. Obviously reports such as these are biased in that almost nobody who chooses not to transition is going to openly identify as such.

Lol, glad to see what type of person you are. If it makes you feel better, if you do have a trans child and they do end up transitioning later in life, it wouldn't be from neglect or from abuse, but rather from factors outside of your control, stuff like hormone balance and other stuff during pregnancy.

Latent LGBT kids are way more likely to be physically or sexually abused prior to ‘coming out’ as such. Latent trans kids more so. Trans adolescent are more likely to have experienced the death of a parent than adolescents in a psychiatric ward. I don’t think you’re strawmanning him.

I was more thinking of what you believe it to be.

 

[Picnic_Boy]

The LGBs are getting mighty sick of the TQs and I think there is a divorce on the horizon.

Who will get the kids?

Both sides are pawns of an entity much larger than themselves. It doesn't matter if gays find trannies distasteful, it's about constant revolution.

 

[gang weeder]

That is actually a contentious subject within the trans community. I'd say a good 80% majority (if not more) are under the agreement that you can be MtF/FtM/NB but then you get into the more contentious subjects like bigender or genderfluid, followed by the mostly ridiculed subjects that have gotten into parody tier like faegender or like the xe/xim ze/zir pronouns. I definitely think that about half the country is against trans people though, you must remember that we were talking about the LGB community and those tend to be a lot more accepting of trans people than the rest of the population.

None of that has anything to do with what I said. I asked if you are capable of articulating why the very specific characteristic of gender gets a special exception with regards to the logic of "identify as whatever you want," when this provision is denied to every other meaningful identity category.

 

[snailslime]

Can talk about how gays are mobbing and doing a purity test for bisexual men. That’s more interesting than arguing with an Orthodox Christian.

there is no purity test, it's just that a lot of "bisexuals" say they're bi to earn brownie points but in reality would never do the icky gay/lesbo deeds.

I was mostly just pointing out the double standard that being on the oppression totem pole gives you permission to "hate."

The idea of "gay separatists" is amusing, I've never heard that term before. I'd be right up there with them, let's separate. But you have to admit that is not the mainstream view of the LGBT lobby, nor is it likely to ever be (for the same reason that climate activists never advocate for nuclear energy--there is relatively little money/prestige to be grifted by actually solving the problem).

nice world salad

 

[gang weeder]

there is no purity test, it's just that a lot of "bisexuals" say they're bi to earn brownie points but in reality would never do the icky gay/lesbo deeds.

Sounds like you aren't a big fan of bisexuals. Oy vey, you shouldn't engage in such harmful stereotyping. This is literally violence.

 

[HunterHearstHelmsley]

I also think that the idea that LGBT were almost all abused as children is definitely overblown, they are definitely proportionally more likely to be abused, but A. it isn't even close to the majority and B. it's very likely that it has more to do with stuff like LGBT kids being more shy and therefore a target for abusers.

I think that GMY study is flawed. The respondents are mostly teenaged girls, when men with a gender dysphoria are way more common than adult women. There has been a sudden explosion in the number of adolescent girls identifying as trans or non-binary. Whatever the meaning of this, I don’t think you can take this uncritically as representative of all trans people. It’s representative of the current TikTok generation. See exerpt below:

Facebook and Instagram advertisements targeted 14–18-year-old adolescents to complete an online survey. Participants (N = 3318 [three thousand three hundred and eighteen]) self-reported gender assigned at birth and current gender identity, mental health symptoms, and transgender-specific stressors and milestones. Adolescents included 1369 cisgender (n = 982 cisgender female; n = 387 cisgender male), 1938 transgender (n = 986 transgender male; n = 132 transgender female; n = 639 nonbinary assigned female at birth; n = 84 nonbinary assigned male at birth; n = 84 questioning gender identity assigned female at birth; n = 13 questioning gender identity assigned male at birth), and 11 intersex youth.

 

[snailslime]

Sounds like you aren't a big fan of bisexuals. Oy vey, you shouldn't engage in such harmful stereotyping. This is literally violence.

i am bisexual, retard.

 

[Noir drag freak]

there is no purity test, it's just that a lot of "bisexuals" say they're bi to earn brownie points but in reality would never do the icky gay/lesbo deeds.

Either I'm not explaining the situation well enough or you're not comprehending what I'm saying. A bunch of gays guys on twitter are going around asking gay Onlyfans creators if they're gay or bisexual. If they had sex on film with a female or FTM, the gays guy will tweet that the person is bisexual and not truly gay. Or if the Onlyfans creators answer that they're bisexual in the dms, the tweet mob will post it unerneath their tweets.

 

[Vingle]

just because the gay isn't told in school doesn't mean a teenager won't know about homosexuality

School is a place to prepare you for work. Knowing about fags does not get you a job, so it's not the schools fucking business to even touch the subject. As they have proved they can't be biased about it.
Letting kids learn about sexuality through porn is actually better then.

how on earth is it "woke" to not tell a parent that their child is gay? How is that predatory?

More often than not, it is from sort of trauma the kid has. When it suddenly starts spewing out about sex-stuff. As a parent, I would like to know this and try to help it. The woke's hope that is goes untreated and evolve the kid into a full-blown troon.

I know several trans people that had that treatment and only ended up transitioning later in life.

If you stopped hanging around them, maybe you would be less retarded. And btw, it's LGB. Stop trying to push the L to be a thing.

 

[The Cunting Death]

Letting kids learn about sexuality through porn is actually better then.

at least have schools teach the bare basics of what sexuality is.

 

[Vingle]

at least have schools teach the bare basics of what sexuality is.

It would be a better idea yea, but I just don't trust government institutions. So better not, as some fucktard will likely take it to the next level and groom the kids anyway.

Even though it could happen under full surveillance.

 

[Eto]

Either I'm not explaining the situation well enough or you're not comprehending what I'm saying. A bunch of gays guys on twitter are going around asking gay Onlyfans creators if they're gay or bisexual. If they had sex on film with a female or FTM, the gays guy will tweet that the person is bisexual and not truly gay. Or if the Onlyfans creators answer that they're bisexual in the dms, the tweet mob will post it unerneath their tweets. View attachment 3012072

This is rather interesting, but not surprising. Bisexuality has had a stigma attached to it for a while now, and some gays simply don't trust us because it was/is a trend with some people, and the fear of leaving them for the opposite sex. I can sympathize with that to a small degree, but if they're going to hassle me over liking men and women like they are with these people, then they can go fuck themselves.

 

[gang weeder]

i am bisexual, retard.

Well clearly you have internalized bi-phobia, schweatie.