Russian Invasion of Ukraine (2022): Thread 1 - Ukrainian Liars vs Russian Liars with Air and Artillery Superiority

[Toothpaste]

So far, the Russian army come across as.... less then competent.
Ukraine have manged to put up a good fight and seeing the vidoes of russian tanks without gasoline etc, put their logstic in question.

This is just a "military exercise". They'll do better next time.

 

[Richardface]

Now this is a take I want to see more of in this thread. What are the results from this. I want to agree with you, but I don't know if the Russians will be worse off. This will set off a Cold War 2 that the West will surely lose, if not on a popularity level, than on a practical level. Up until this occurred, Western governments were more focused with making war on their own people over other nations. I think it would be too late to turn the ship around now from "All heterosexual White men must be second class citizens" to "Heterosexual White men, save us!"

The end of the American Empire might happen sooner than the end of an Antagonistic Russia though it does depend on what Putin does and more importantly what his successor does.

The US/Europe have made it very clear that energy will be an enormous carve out of any sanctions regime. Oil/Gas also happens to be the thing that actually underwrites Russia's economy.

 

[FightenGnome]

The issue is going to be maintaining the territory, Ukraine is massive, and these skirmishes. The fact Belarus is putting their own eggs into this is concerning because Nato can fuck them economically too, I think there is going to be a lot of media gayops from within Ukraine from Russia sympathizers to undermine Ukraine.

Belarus is going to be a middle-man for Russia and if not China, so glad to see they are just going full-blown.

Belarus is going to form a union with Russia and join the Federation. It's probably all part of the plan. Kazakhstan or North Kazakhstan too.

 

[Smity Werbenjagermanjensen]

God I love the hoops Russiaboos have to jump through to justify themselves.

They always resort to "Putin is just trying to keep NATO from being globohomo", when if you presented Putin with a magic button to suddenly recreate the Eastern Bloc, you bet your ass he would press it in a heartbeat.

 

[Richardface]

So far, the Russian army come across as.... less then competent.
Ukraine have manged to put up a good fight and seeing the vidoes of russian tanks without gasoline etc, put their logstic in question.

Agreed they got lots of practice in Syria in general tactics but they haven't done an attack with this many units since the Soviet times and it's highlighting a lot of problems with their command & control and logistics

 

[The Foldless Brain]

Here's a question - why didn't Russia spend the intervening 30 years cultivating relationships with their neighbors that kept them out of NATO and the EU?

Yanukovych got toppled right after he took a Russian deal with better terms than the EU/US one. They spent 200 billion on Ukraine over the years before the Maidan. Dude still got coup'd. But supposing they didn't, it's just basic power politics. You can get away with vassalizing weak countries and surrounding them with states who're part of a pact who's sole purpose is to fuck them over. Doing the same to Russia is a different story.

 

[Anya15]

You’re just being delusional and naive if you think that’s how the world works or has ever worked.

Your right, that pesky American revolution never happened! All a psyops!

 

[Elbereth]

Because it’s in their self interest to keep American influence outside their sphere of influence to ensure their national security is intact. And on a basic level they have the right because might makes right, it always has and always will. It’s just the way of the world and you’re too retarded and delusional to understand that and want to live in a fairytale world where everybody should get along. It’s just not reality, it never has been and it never will.

Do you think it is right that there are people killed over Ukraine's policy?

Same right the USA has.

Defend Russia policy not mentioning America. Go.

 

[theshep]

Belarus is going to form a union with Russia and join the Federation.

It's basically already there anyway and has been for years! It would just be a matter of rubber-stamping it.

If I was a politician or head of state in Estonia, Latvia, or Lithuania I'd be feeling very nervous.

Putin is trying to get the band back together, I think.

 

[Disheveled Human]

Now this is a take I want to see more of in this thread. What are the results from this. I want to agree with you, but I don't know if the Russians will be worse off. This will set off a Cold War 2 that the West will surely lose, if not on a popularity level, than on a practical level. Up until this occurred, Western governments were more focused with making war on their own people over other nations. I think it would be too late to turn the ship around now from "All heterosexual White men must be second class citizens" to "Heterosexual White men, save us!"

The end of the American Empire might happen sooner than the end of an Antagonistic Russia though it does depend on what Putin does and more importantly what his successor does.

After seeing all the fuckups the Russians have made in this what should have been simple and easy to wrap up invasion with Ukraine, saying the Russian Federation is going to outlast or win against western governments is pure unadulterated cope.

 

[Richardface]

Do you think it is right that there are people killed over Ukraine's policy?

Defend Russia policy not mentioning America. Go.

“Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.”​

 

[Foltest]

Agreed they got lots of practice in Syria in general tactics but they haven't done an attack with this many units since the Soviet times and it's highlighting a lot of problems with their command & control and logistics

Figthing against a foe that is motivated and is not made up of the local retards "cough" syrian rebels" cough", who is more battle harden (the fighitng in the Donbass region is a good training ground), have decent arms and deciding to invade in gooddamn feb, shows that Putin for all of his big brain moment, have overestimated the russian army.

 

[Granate37]

True take or Poltergeist of Cherkasy tier cope?

 

[Toothpaste]

Russian and Belarusian officials offered to hold peace talks today in Gomel, Belarus. Lukashenko himself was acting as an intermediator.

The Russian delegation came in in time. The Ukrainian delegation never even had an intention of coming.

This whole thing was a clear propaganda stunt by the Russians. Now they can say to their own populations that the Ukrainians are not interested in peace.

 

[The Foldless Brain]

Defend Russia policy not mentioning America. Go.

Russia has an interest in removing a hostile foreign proxy on its border, especially one it has ruled over its entire history short of the last 8 years and which consists primarily of Russian speakers.

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True take or Poltergeist of Cherkasy tier cope?

Correct and part of the reason why the sanction hype is retarded. There are carveouts for oil throughout because most of the EU can't actually go without Russian gas.

 

[theshep]

Russian and Belarusian officials offered to hold peace talks today in Gomel, Belarus. Lukashenko himself was acting as an intermediator.

The Russian delegation came in in time. The Ukrainian delegation never even had an intention of coming.

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Why would/should they? I wouldn't trust the Belarusians either. Host the talks in a neutral country.

When they're willing to force a commercial flight to land in their territory to arrest a passenger, I can't imagine it would take too much for them to arrest the Ukrainian delegation.

 

[Toothpaste]

View attachment 3023715
True take or Poltergeist of Cherkasy tier cope?

Wolff is one of the biggest retards on this entire planet.

He is a Marxist "economist" who famously explained away the Marxist "labour theory of value" by claiming that Marx couldn't actually have been so stupid to literally mean what he wrote. It has to be taken as "social commentary".

 

[FightenGnome]

There was never an 'agreement' on this. All the west said was that NATO expansion was not on the agenda after the end of the Cold War. Russians invented this idea that promises were made.

There was, and evidence for the Russians to believe this was the case. However, I suppose if you wanted to be "legally" correct, Russia doesn't have the receipts no, but they have the text messages. It's up to you to decide if Russia was just cool with the U.S. tearing down all their shit and bringing their anti-Russian alliance on their doorstep or if they truly believed NATO wasn't going to move "one inch eastward".

Op-Ed: Russia's got a point: The U.S. broke a NATO promise

Moscow solidified its hold on Crimea in April, outlawing the Tatar legislature that had opposed Russia’s annexation of the region since 2014.

www.latimes.com

In early February 1990, U.S. leaders made the Soviets an offer. According to transcripts of meetings in Moscow on Feb. 9, then-Secretary of State James Baker suggested that in exchange for cooperation on Germany, U.S. could make “iron-clad guarantees” that NATO would not expand “one inch eastward.” Less than a week later, Soviet President Mikhail Gorbachev agreed to begin reunification talks. No formal deal was struck, but from all the evidence, the quid pro quo was clear: Gorbachev acceded to Germany’s western alignment and the U.S. would limit NATO’s expansion.

Nevertheless, great powers rarely tie their own hands. In internal memorandums and notes, U.S. policymakers soon realized that ruling out NATO’s expansion might not be in the best interests of the United States. By late February, Bush and his advisers had decided to leave the door open.

After discussing the issue with West German Chancellor Helmut Kohl on February 24-25, the U.S. gave the former East Germany “special military status,” limiting what NATO forces could be stationed there in deference to the Soviet Union. Beyond that, however, talk of proscribing NATO’s reach dropped out of the diplomatic conversation. Indeed, by March 1990, State Department officials were advising Baker that NATO could help organize Eastern Europe in the U.S. orbit; by October, U.S. policymakers were contemplating whether and when (as a National Security Council memo put it) to “signal to the new democracies of Eastern Europe NATO’s readiness to contemplate their future membership.”

At the same time, however, it appears the Americans still were trying to convince the Russians that their concerns about NATO would be respected. Baker pledged in Moscow on May 18, 1990, that the United States would cooperate with the Soviet Union in the “development of a new Europe.” And in June, per talking points prepared by the NSC, Bush was telling Soviet leaders that the United States sought “a new, inclusive Europe.”

 

[The Last Boyscout]

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can't wait till they light up actual medics/EMTs.
BUH BUT THEY WERE OUT PAST CURFEW!
who knew medical emergencies don't care about curfews.

 

[Richardface]

View attachment 3023715
True take or Poltergeist of Cherkasy tier cope?

Depends how much oil spikes (and whether Biden is willing to take the L and restart fracking/keystone to get US production up) but broadly true