Russian Invasion of Ukraine (2022): Thread 1 - Ukrainian Liars vs Russian Liars with Air and Artillery Superiority

How well is the combat this going for Russia?

  • ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ Blyatskrieg

    Votes: 46 6.6%
  • ⭐⭐⭐⭐ A well planned strike with few faults

    Votes: 45 6.5%
  • ⭐⭐⭐ Competent attack with some upsets

    Votes: 292 42.1%
  • ⭐⭐ Worse than expected

    Votes: 269 38.8%
  • ⭐ Ukraine takes back Crimea 2022

    Votes: 42 6.1%

  • Total voters
    694
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Say anything against the Coronavirus pandemic and the restrictions that constricted your life; Your selfish and a murderer. Say anything against Black Lives Matter who burn your cities and demonize you for crimes you weren't alive to commit; Your a rascist and a bigot. Say anything against Ukraine that's been put on a pedestal by a mainstream media, who think of you as a mindless animal at best, and an incompetent government, that hates you at most; Your evil and psychotic.
Yes, it turns out that when you support a country at war, you implicitly do not support the enemies of that country and those enemies might have something mean to say to you.

How autistic do you have to be to not understand that, by definition, you are going to get pushback when you support a war?
 
Good American Morning to the Farms.

I used to think the Gulf Wars fried people's perception of war. Now I think it is even worse.

People are celebrating that Kyiv hasn't fallen after a mere, what? Three days after the start of the war? How strong must the Ukrainians be to have held the Russian Menace back!?! This is a major military disaster for PUTIN!!!!!!

Bullshit.

Or at the very least, being completely unrealistic in expectations.

Let me give you some numbers and statistics:


2nd battle of Fallujah:
Coalition forces had complete dominance in manpower, airpower, equipment, and training. The opposition had extremely little artillery, minimal anti-armor assets, effectively no air defenses, patchwork communications at best, basically no armored assets, and well over half of their forces had no real training to speak of. US and allied forces had quite a bit of time to surround the city and pre-position all major assets before the offensive to take the city started. And the city was effectively clear of civilians. Coalition forces outnumbered the insurgents by 3 to 1.

It still took a full five (5) days to take the city.

The most recent Battle for Raqqa:
Coalition forces, notably backed very heavily by US support assets, took 4 fucking months to take the city back from ISIS. That is with the assault force outnumber the ISIS forces by over 10 to 1, complete air dominance, extreme recon and intelligence overmatch, a monopoly on armor and artillery support, and US Spec Ops support. Many civilians had evacuated, and coalition forces din't care much about collateral since it wasn't an officially US lead operation (despite all the material support, notably artillery, which flattened the city).

Again, 4 months after having entered the city for the first time, and 3 months after having completely surrounded and cut off the town.

These two towns are tiny compared to the Ukrainian cities being talked about here. They are also being defended by forces which aren't illiterate 3rd world peasants, armed with nothing but zeal, knock-off AKs, and improvised explosives. And these battles were conducted mostly after the allied forces had secured the surrounding territory, and had complete freedom of preparation and movement. This as opposed to the ongoing Russian assaults which do no yet have that benefit.

To give another couple points of comparison:


The First Gulf War:
Five Weeks of air assaults lead-up to the breach.
A brilliant misdirection leading to an outflanking maneuver enabled by the then new GPS technology, combined with every technological advantage ever conceived of, was just the start of the advantages. Allied coalition forces outnumbered active military numbers for Saddam. Allied leadership had actual leadership capabilities, especially in comparison to the arab army. Widespread use of Smart Munitions made their combat debut.

It was a lightning fast campaign for something this size, and the ground assault lasted 13 days before Saddam called for a ceasefire.

The Second Gulf War:
Somehow the Allied Coalition forces setup an even more absurd overmatch the second go-around. The Iraqi Army really hadn't rebuilt its forces, and its conscripts knew it. Their moral was about as low as any force in history, and the surrender rates show it. US and coalition forces had even stronger technological advantages this time, and they used it and lessons learned from the previous war to maximal effect.

The US and Allied forces steamrolled their way across the country in just over 25 days.
_
To tell you all my point as explicitly as possible: Manage your expectations.

The Ukrainian military is reasonably well equipped. They have/had modern air defense systems, including many MANPADs. They have/had strong armored forces as well as anti-armor forces. They have/had a decently trained core of soldiers. And as importantly, they aren't Arabs. In addition to all this, the Russians still have their heavy armored and Artillery forces in reserve. They are being remarkably gently in this operations so far, considering that the usual MO for the Russian forces is to "Grozny" a city if it gives them any trouble (I expect this to change as time goes on).

Of course the Russians weren't going to take Kyiv in the first fucking 3-4 days of war. The only way that would have happened is if the Ukrainians stright-up surrendered. Which was unlikely.

Considering all this, the Russians are doing pretty damn well, and that is coming from someone rather pro-Ukrainian.

______
TL ; DR: Wars take a long time. City fights take forever and a day. The Russian Campaign is going rather well, despite some minor setbacks.
If I've done a shitty job of saying it, I'm not so sure that the setbacks on the Kiev front really are minor. I think Putin's plan was to get in there before the Ukranians could shift troops in in force and start entrenching, taking it with that minimal collateral they've been working so hard for, and from there he'd be in a much stronger position to dictate terms. Putin has also shot down diplomatic approaches over the last few days, but now we've reached a point where both parties are willing to talk, and I think that's centered around them both realizing that a city fight in Kiev is inevitable if this drags on. Zelinsky doesn't want Kiev to get leveled, and Putin doesn't want the diplomatic nightmare that would come out of leveling Kiev, especially after all the effort that's gone into waging a relatively clean war.

I guess we'll see how well that take ages soon.
 
What's with all the yanky support for Putin in here? He openly detests you lot, sees you as lower than rats and you're all simping for him like seasoned lolcows. Some of the weirdest most hilarious shit I've ever seen on the internet:story:
/pol/ tards in here bitching about “muh globohomo” somehow thinking that outweighs the fact ukrainians made it pretty clear during euromaiden they wanted a european future and not a russian future.
 
What's with all the yanky support for Putin in here? He openly detests you lot, sees you as lower than rats and you're all simping for him like seasoned lolcows. Some of the weirdest most hilarious shit I've ever seen on the internet:story:
Now extrapolate this on the top of the Russian establishment. Even an authoritarian dictator needs to be propped up by someone, but over the course of the last several days qute a lot of people from the higher eschelons of power denounced him (why hello there, Michael Fridman, the owner of Russia's second largest bank). In the nuclear announcement, you can see the generals visibly uneasy. The lawmakers in Duma are quavering.

How long before somebody reaches for the snuffbox?
 
What's with all the yanky support for Putin in here? He openly detests you lot, sees you as lower than rats and you're all simping for him like seasoned lolcows. Some of the weirdest most hilarious shit I've ever seen on the internet:story:

The way I understand it is it is either shitposting, or they support any disruption to the globohomo agenda.
 
What's with all the yanky support for Putin in here? He openly detests you lot, sees you as lower than rats and you're all simping for him like seasoned lolcows. Some of the weirdest most hilarious shit I've ever seen on the internet:story:
Then you haven't been on the Internet. Regarding the reason for support, the enemy of my enemy is my friend/ally. "Simple as" as the kids say.
 
Question for the based milispergs here.

Have the Russians been using AK12's or is it still 74's? Are they using the Ratnik system? Do they all have body armour?

I remember clips of Russian troops in Syria a few years back and they seemed equivalent in professionalism and equipment to US/UK troops at a glance. From what I've seen here it's not the same. Am I right in assuming because Syria wasn't a full scale conflict they could afford to use their best troops and equipment and now that's not the case because they need troops en-masse?
Syria was mostly being assisted by the Wagner Group, which means they had PMC money to spend on arms.
 

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The way I understand it is it is either shitposting, or they support any disruption to the globohomo agenda.
Neither, I'm not a yank. just an autist. Not to PL too much, but NATO expansion, the 2014 Ukrainian coup and Yugoslav war didn't go over very well here. This'll be ugly, but less ugly than most previous wars of the last 30 years and badly overdue.
 
What's with all the yanky support for Putin in here? He openly detests you lot, sees you as lower than rats and you're all simping for him like seasoned lolcows. Some of the weirdest most hilarious shit I've ever seen on the internet:story:
Yes, it turns out that when you support a country at war, you implicitly do not support the enemies of that country and those enemies might have something mean to say to you.

How autistic do you have to be to not understand that, by definition, you are going to get pushback when you support a war?
My disappointment in Trump being the 4-D chess playing god-emperor is as immeasurable as Putin being the EX-KGB gigachad who can wrestle a bear with his bare hands wearing only his pants in Sub-zero Siberian wilderness.

Ultimately I'm more disappointed that we're wasting hundred of millions of dollars, given by an incompetent government on an incompetent government, again, whose being invaded by what seems to be another incompetent government. And meanwhile we're suppose to nod our heads that the Ukrainian government is 100% correct, that it can do no wrong and then get demonize for going 1% away from the status quo, despite saying Ukrainians, russians, and american people are caught in the crossfire.

Let the east keep nuclear-rod waving contests to themselves. We're already paying for this show enough as it is.
 
Can I just say there's something wrong with people today in regards to patience. You saw it with the Canadian convoys and you're seeing it now with the war in Ukraine. People all over the internet, here included, after 2 days will start declaring everything to be "over".
And why? Because it isn't done by the time you've stopped paying attention?

Historically these things take months to years. It's not "over" just because it didn't end in time for your nap.
 
Another day with electricity and the interwebs. Brandon's intersectional defense forces continue ro keep us safe spaced
 
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