War Invasion of Ukraine News Megathread - Thread is only for articles and discussion of articles, general discussion thread is still in Happenings.

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President Joe Biden on Tuesday said that the United States will impose sanctions “far beyond” the ones that the United States imposed in 2014 following the annexation of the Crimean peninsula.

“This is the beginning of a Russian invasion of Ukraine,” Biden said in a White House speech, signaling a shift in his administration’s position. “We will continue to escalate sanctions if Russia escalates,” he added.

Russian elites and their family members will also soon face sanctions, Biden said, adding that “Russia will pay an even steeper price” if Moscow decides to push forward into Ukraine. Two Russian banks and Russian sovereign debt will also be sanctioned, he said.

Also in his speech, Biden said he would send more U.S. troops to the Baltic states as a defensive measure to strengthen NATO’s position in the area.

Russia shares a border with Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania.

A day earlier, Russian President Vladimir Putin ordered troops to go into the separatist Donetsk and Lugansk regions in eastern Ukraine after a lengthy speech in which he recognized the two regions’ independence.

Western powers decried the move and began to slap sanctions on certain Russian individuals, while Germany announced it would halt plans to go ahead with the Russia-to-Germany Nord Stream 2 pipeline.

At home, Biden is facing bipartisan pressure to take more extensive actions against Russia following Putin’s decision. However, a recent poll showed that a majority of Americans believe that sending troops to Ukraine is a “bad idea,” and a slim minority believes it’s a good one.

All 27 European Union countries unanimously agreed on an initial list of sanctions targeting Russian authorities, said French Foreign Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian, and EU foreign affairs head Josep Borell claimed the package “will hurt Russia … a lot.”

Earlier Tuesday, Borell asserted that Russian troops have already entered the Donbas region, which comprises Donetsk and Lugansk, which are under the control of pro-Russia groups since 2014.

And on Tuesday, the Russian Parliament approved a Putin-back plan to use military force outside of Russia’s borders as Putin further said that Russia confirmed it would recognize the expanded borders of Lugansk and Donetsk.

“We recognized the states,” the Russian president said. “That means we recognized all of their fundamental documents, including the constitution, where it is written that their [borders] are the territories at the time the two regions were part of Ukraine.”

Speaking to reporters on Tuesday, Putin said that Ukraine is “not interested in peaceful solutions” and that “every day, they are amassing troops in the Donbas.”

Meanwhile, Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelensky on Tuesday morning again downplayed the prospect of a Russian invasion and proclaimed: “There will be no war.”

“There will not be an all-out war against Ukraine, and there will not be a broad escalation from Russia. If there is, then we will put Ukraine on a war footing,” he said in a televised address.

The White House began to signal that they would shift their own position on whether it’s the start of an invasion.

“We think this is, yes, the beginning of an invasion, Russia’s latest invasion into Ukraine,” said Jon Finer, the White House deputy national security adviser in public remarks. “An invasion is an invasion and that is what is underway.”

For weeks, Western governments have been claiming Moscow would invade its neighbor after Russia gathered some 150,000 troops along the countries’ borders. They alleged that the Kremlin would attempt to come up with a pretext to attack, while some officials on Monday said Putin’s speech recognizing the two regions was just that.

But Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin told reporters Tuesday that Russia’s “latest invasion” of Ukraine is threatening stability in the region, but he asserted that Putin can “still avoid a full blown, tragic war of choice.”

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I've been saying that this whole time. Putin's Russia isn't fighting the western elite because they're interested in standing up against "degeneracy", they're only fighting the west because they want to be the world hegemon, not America. The nation itself is drowning in alcohol abuse, massive amounts of contraception and abortion, organized crime and monopolies crushing any competition, among other things. People pretend like it's an ordered Christian society, when really, it's a land of godless people who have mostly given up on setting the stage for the next generation, as they kill their kids in the womb and drink vodka like it's water.
I think it's at least partially about maintaining a national myth and a national identity, in order to keep the country together. Something that I worry about is what a post-Putin Russia looks like. For example, does it fracture into 5-6 different states, and if it does, who gets all the smallpox and atomic powered death rockets?
 
It's as I said before: NATO before now was all hot air and politics for every member aside from Poland and America, but after Putin invaded, now everyone in Europe realizes its necessity. Russia ironically created the foe they were fearing. This invasion was meant to scare people, instead it united them. Even if Kiev falls, its defenders will only be seen as martyrs. And if Kiev doesn't fall, the defenders will become national heroes once the war stops and the negotiation starts.
This is why the theory of Putin wanting and expecting this to be a quick capitulation is the most likely to me. If the Ukrainians did indeed not want anything to do with the Jewish Nazi Hunter Biden cabal in Kyiv and basically welcomed the Russians in while Zelensky ran the fuck away the geopolitical situation would look a lot different than it does now. If he truly wants to roll back NATO expansion fighting a drawn out war with Ukrainians perceived to be plucky underdogs viciously fighting to the end (deboonk the claims all you want, doesn't change that that's the overwhelming perception of them right now as compared to a bunch of cowardly Afghan pedos that nobody thinks are worth fighting for) is the worst possible way to do it.
 
How the hell does something like this happen and why the fuck is it that noone seems interested in peace talks, no one even suggests to Russia that if they do X then sanctions can be immediately removed, they just add more and more as if they wanted Russia to do something drastic.

Everyone is interested in peace talks, practically all major European powers, Turkey and Israel have at this point offered to host them.

damn it only took Putin 5 days to get here?

Even if this would be true, which I highly doubt, it's quite unlikely to succeed. After all, if they wanted to assasinate the Ukrainian president, it should've been done in the first minute of the assault, when his security was on normal peace-time level. Now he is probably 24/7 surrounded by a company of soldiers, in a bunker somewhere under Kyiv.


It seems like the nukes are their only serious leverage point now. They don't seem to have credible force-projection ability if they're struggling this hard against a literal neighboring country; it's quite possible that an attempt at a European invasion could turn Fulda Gap into Fulda Gape for them unless they devoted 100% of their forces and logistics to it.

If it's true that this assault force comprises of 60% of Russian total military, it means that they wouldn't in any event have a manpower to fight more than one small war at a time. Consider the scale; when Germany went to war against Poland, it had 3,7 million soldiers at arms. That is roughly ten times the size of the current Russian military. And of course, back then one soldier couldn't cause as much damage as nowadays due to developments in technology, but you still need quite a lot of soldiers to wage conquering war.
 
Basically, the Minsk agreements were not abided by anyone and the War in Donbas continued since 2014. Russia sees Ukraine as a threat to them personally. Note how they're in driving distance to Kiev? The opposite is true; Ukraine is in driving distance to Moscow. If Ukraine--which is a friendly US state since 2014 thanks to John McCain--were to join NATO, the current war would be reversed. Just because Putin is the aggressor doesn't mean he doesn't have legitimate concerns. Also, the US is clearly using Ukraine as a Chess Knight to make a blitz to the King, hence why NATO is supplying them with arms. Just in case you want more proof of glow niggardry.
Also Ukraine seems to have all the corruption of the Russian state, but rather than oligarchs it has a host of various NGOs, external governments and others being the principle beneficiaries of corruption. This place suddenly is a beacon of democratic values despite being literally the corrupt playground for the international community.
 
Also Ukraine seems to have all the corruption of the Russian state, but rather than oligarchs it has a host of various NGOs, external governments and others being the principle beneficiaries of corruption. This place suddenly is a beacon of democratic values despite being literally the corrupt playground for the international community.
If Biden had the political capital, he'd do more to defend his son's posting at Burisma. He doesn't, which is why he went with sanctions. It's pretty damn clear the West's goal is to escalate the war as fast as possible so Putin breaks. Except Putin breaking is to corner a desperate animal. I really don't see how breaking the Russian Federation is a good thing for anyone except the Military Industrial Complex.
 
If Biden had the political capital, he'd do more to defend his son's posting at Burisma. He doesn't, which is why he went with sanctions. It's pretty damn clear the West's goal is to escalate the war as fast as possible so Putin breaks. Except Putin breaking is to corner a desperate animal. I really don't see how breaking the Russian Federation is a good thing for anyone except the Military Industrial Complex.
No it wasn't. The west was the one calling for peace; it was Russia that decided to escalate things to war. In fact, the West was afraid of Russia before the war, and it would have been a trifling matter for Putin to trick the West into thinking that his army is stronger than what it really is and get some concessions out of Sleepy Joe. But now that the Russian army has been unmasked for the undisciplined rabble of peasant boys that it is? Joe isn't going to budge, the West ain't going to budge.

Putin killed all chances of him being able to win anything by attacking. And now that the West smells blood on the Russian bear, it's going to keep on hitting until the bear collapses or gives up.

Also Ukraine seems to have all the corruption of the Russian state, but rather than oligarchs it has a host of various NGOs, external governments and others being the principle beneficiaries of corruption. This place suddenly is a beacon of democratic values despite being literally the corrupt playground for the international community.
The thing is, they're both corrupt. It makes me laugh to see people support Russia because Ukraine is "corrupt", but when you look on the Russian side, it's just as fucked, if not even more fucked, thanks to the oligarchs killing any business competition.
 
I think it should be funny as this love of Zelensky evolves and people get to finding out more about some of the less noblebright pilpul shit he is tied to and doing right now even. I mean men 18-60 not allowed to flee, releasing prisoners with combat experience, among other questionable stuff. Very interesting to see this hero arc.
 
I think it should be funny as this love of Zelensky evolves and people get to finding out more about some of the less noblebright pilpul shit he is tied to and doing right now even. I mean men 18-60 not allowed to flee, releasing prisoners with combat experience, among other questionable stuff. Very interesting to see this hero arc.
I don't love the guy, I don't like his enemy.

Putin could've just used the situation to wring concessions out of the west, instead of sending a bunch of high school boys on a road trip to enemy territory. He could have avoided this senseless loss of life, and the humiliation of his army, if he kept things political and negotiated from a position of strength when the west still feared him-before the war. Now, they don't fear him, because his army wasn't as strong as he thought it was, which makes any negotiation he has with them start with him at a disadvantage.
 
I mean men 18-60 not allowed to flee, releasing prisoners with combat experience, among other questionable stuff. Very interesting to see this hero arc.

Either you're retard or Russian puppet. It's common procedure in all countries under attack that all men of the fighting age are drafted immediately and forbidden to leave the country. It's also not unheard of to parole criminals in exchange for military service. Both are reasonable actions that are universally accepted, UNLIKE ATTACKING YOUR NEIGHBOUR WITH MADE UP CASUS BELLI.
 
I don't just see why can't he just go full throttle and just start launching his arsenal of nukes already. This war has been a joke since he first striked the country. He should have just gone for a full out of sold in either blitzkrieg London style Kiev or had a anybody of Ukrainian origin to be slaughtered a massacred. But no he decided to go to humanitarian route and only pick those that only with the Ukraine armed forces. As for the nukes he can launch about a good 100 of them and if they don't get picked off by sam's we could see the whole country in ruins and possibly uninhabitable for months to come.

Ukraine didn't win anything, Putin just needed to bring his full-on Hitler or Stalin out and that's how you win.

I'm more interested to see when China invades Taiwan as it's a lot more of a smaller territory and mostly going to be a naval air battle.

We lost the art of how to really have wars everything is just a skirmish if anything.
No sir i don't want Fallout to happen
 
Ukraine is engaging in an existential war that will determine their existence, history, and future, drafting and using convicts are still within the realm of acceptance considering the stakes of thw war. I am much more surprised they haven't reached the state of desperation that forced them to enact even more drastic measures, like civilian meatshields and the like
 
Either you're retard or Russian puppet. It's common procedure in all countries under attack that all men of the fighting age are drafted immediately and forbidden to leave the country. It's also not unheard of to parole criminals in exchange for military service. Both are reasonable actions that are universally accepted, UNLIKE ATTACKING YOUR NEIGHBOUR WITH MADE UP CASUS BELLI.
To be fair I live in a nation that will never face invasion so really I have never considered the point I always assumed in a war if you’re a civilian you get to flee. I mean what if I am a conscientious objector or pacifist?
 
It is pretty much guaranteed that Ukraine is going to lose. But the question is 'when' and 'how'. The cost of this war have been shown to be very damaging economically, politically, and diplomatically for Russia. How do you think this war would end, and how it's going to look after the war?
 
I think it should be funny as this love of Zelensky evolves and people get to finding out more about some of the less noblebright pilpul shit he is tied to and doing right now even. I mean men 18-60 not allowed to flee, releasing prisoners with combat experience, among other questionable stuff. Very interesting to see this hero arc.
Finding out their darker side didn't stop St. George from being canonized, or prevent people from promoting Rosenbaum. Probably wouldn't matter that much here, although Zelensky might be forgotten about eventually after the drama dies down.
 
One question to ask is who is it that is pulling those punches? I've seen a few "Intelligence Advisors" (ie Idiots) in the media wondering if the Russian Army is deliberately softballing the human rights atrocities regardless of what Emperor Vlad commands. This doesn't seem like it would be a thing to me. But nothing in this invasion seems to be according to expected estimates so why not?
There was a video floating around of a guy noticing a bunch of Russian army uniforms on the ground, seemed weird as it made it look like the soldiers took them off and fled. Which may have been true. You had a load of soldiers that thought they were doing military exercises being thrust into what could become a major war involving their country against the world. The soldiers' hearts may just really not be in this and so none of them are into fighting all that hard.
 
Ukraine is engaging in an existential war that will determine their existence, history, and future, drafting and using convicts are still within the realm of acceptance considering the stakes of thw war. I am much more surprised they haven't reached the state of desperation that forced them to enact even more drastic measures, like civilian meatshields and the like

Using civilians as "meat-shields", in essence positioning your military so that it's surrounded by residential areas, is something done only by criminal states, terrorist organizations and such. If Ukraine would do that, they would immediately lose any support they have in the west, and to be honest it's quite baffling that you even think they would consider such.


To be fair I live in a nation that will never face invasion so really I have never considered the point I always assumed in a war if you’re a civilian you get to flee. I mean what if I am a conscientious objector or pacifist?

When my country was at war last time, to my understanding the few pacifists that existed back then were just jailed for the duration of the war. I've always just assumed that if there is war, everyone WILL BE drafted, and your personal opinion about the matter is irrelevant.


It is pretty much guaranteed that Ukraine is going to lose. But the question is 'when' and 'how'. The cost of this war have been shown to be very damaging economically, politically, and diplomatically for Russia. How do you think this war would end, and how it's going to look after the war?

I wouldn't even bet at this point that Ukraine would straight-out lose. Kyiv and Kharkiv are large cities, and Ukraine has been arming the population with fast pace. Urban warfare in so large cities can stretch out for months and years, and can become extremely bloody and painful process for the attackers. If Ukraine can hold long enough, Russia will eventually run out of money to continue the war, at which point they have to negotiate. I'm quite sure that if it comes to that it will spell the end for Putin's reign, as the Russian elites will certainly not let him continue to rule, or perhaps even live after this kind of fiasco.
 
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civilian meatshields and the like
More likely for them to start drafting teenagers.

I mean what if I am a conscientious objector or pacifist?
That goes out the window in an invasion. Every man fights. And most nations make no special protections for conscientious objectors.

It is pretty much guaranteed that Ukraine is going to lose. But the question is 'when' and 'how'.
Ukraine isn't going to lose because they don't really have to win. Its Putin who needs a decisive victory in order to maintain his legitimacy. Ukraine just needs to keep running the Ruskies rough shot, making this war so unpopular and costly at home that Putin has no choice but to withdraw. Remember the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan? The Afghanis couldn't "realistically win" either, but they didn't have to. They just needed to make the invasion so costly, the Russians had no choice but to pack up and go home. Ukraine is going to be Afghanistan times 10. Ukraine is far larger and far more populated than Afghanistan, with a population that is just as determined to push the Russians out. You have a nation about the size of Texas (a little bit larger, I believe, and Texas is HUGE) and with a population of 44 million people, which makes it more populous than California, the most populous state. According to American conventional counterinsurgency doctrine, you need, and I quote:

within a range of 20 to 25 counterinsurgents for every 1,000 residents in an [area of operations]. Twenty counterinsurgents per 1,000 residents is often considered the minimum troop density required for effective [counterinsurgency] operations; however, as with any fixed ratio, such calculations remain very dependent on the situation.

By those numbers, Russia's current force strength of roughly 175,000–190,000 troops is nowhere near enough to effectively occupy a country of that size. They would have needed a force of about 900,000 troops to effectively occupy a country that big and populated. Add on to the fact that most of their army are conscripts serving only one year tours, and reports that Russia may not have enough reserve forces to effectively cycle units out of combat to rest, thus forcing them to cycle in less depleted units to rest depleted ones, and reports of vehicles running out of fuel due to bad logistics, and you've got a recipe for disaster. What's more, Ukraine borders almost half of NATO, which means that the west will have no trouble funneling weapons, aid, and support to the Ukrainians. Then you have the fact that the Russians do not have air superiority, and will probably never get air supremacy. And if Russia should force Ukraine to fall and install a puppet government, the west will never recognize it, and the Ukrainian people will never accept it, thus an insurgency, with western backing, is almost guaranteed. Now you should get an idea for how bleak the situation really is for Russia. And we aren't even at the occupancy and insurgency stage; the Russian military is currently being held by the supposedly inferior Ukrainian military, which will only demoralize morale everyday the war stalls.
 
I think it should be funny as this love of Zelensky evolves and people get to finding out more about some of the less noblebright pilpul shit he is tied to and doing right now even. I mean men 18-60 not allowed to flee, releasing prisoners with combat experience, among other questionable stuff. Very interesting to see this hero arc.
Wow, a President making war decisions in a time of war.
What a loser lol
 
Says the guy who's ignoring the state of the Russian army, the state of Russia's economy, and the fact that they can't even come up with as much money as fucking New York.

Really, it's not that hard to believe that Russia bungled this invasion and that they're nowhere near as powerful as they claim to be when a crime-ridden California makes more money than them.

And again, it was Putin who started this war, not the west, not "GLOBOHOMO". The west was fucking scared of him before, but now? They're laughing at him, and if it wasn't for his nukes, they'd have gutted him by now. Or turned Moscow into the next Dresden. When you have to lie to your own troops and threaten to destroy the world because some backwater, Z-list ex-Soviet Republic is handing your army of high school boys their asses on a plate, you know you've fucked up.

Putin could have used his military numbers to wring some concessions out of NATO and the west, and gone back home. Keep the west from learning how weak Russia's army is. Use the fear of force rather than force itself. Instead, he made an ass of himself in the global stage, and now he's threatening to destroy the world because things didn't go his way. He wasn't as smart or as rational as we all believed him to be. You have to accept that fact.

the west is laughing at putin while nervously sending material aid to ukraine in hope we arent sucked into ww3.
 
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