Self-Taught Classical Education? - or is it possible to give yourself an education worth having?

[RussianMozart]

The so-called education system in the western world is unworthy of being called an education system in my opinion. Reason, logic, and the ability to debate has been replaced by the orthodoxy of wokesheviks and tards. This makes me wonder, how can you go about giving yourself an education worth having? What texts and topics should you read? What should you avoid? It would be better to give yourself a classical education in your 20s or 30s than to only get what the tards give you in school.

 

[Alexander Thaut]

at that point it's self-directed and there's absolutely nothing wrong with being an autodidact and going through the classics at all.

I highly suggest if you haven't done so, to peruse Homer's works. I recommend the Fagles translations of The Illiad and The Oddysey. Starting from literature is never a bad idea as it's generally the easiest to digest. Epics, myth, and other forms of fiction are easy to digest.

The one thing I have to say is that if you're interested in Paradise Lost by John Milton, beware that it is not an easy book to read. I had to take a class wherein we specifically read the entire thing over the semester. It's certainly an important work, but it's also not an easy read.

Figure out where your interests lie in regards to topics of literature. Branch off into philosophies, history, and other areas. self-study can be incredibly rewarding as a hobby. The only difficulty you might have is the lack of proper facilitation via a Professor. This comes into play if you're doing shit with language barriers like ancient texts translated to modern english. Or anything translated to english really but the classical education is very heavy on greek/latin with a mix of english/french for some stuff. I highly recommend fine tuning your interests by dipping your toes into your interests and then going from there as it may be tricky to continue to be motivated.

As for philosophical works, there's a wide variety to start from if you're going into the greco-roman stuff. It depends on your interests. If you're super serious about this and know where to pirate acquire them, check out The Great Courses by the learning company. There's ways to get the videos/audiobooks and they're really handy for self-directed learning on topics.

Peace out, this is a fun topic to sperg on but a classical education is never bad. Getting familiar with classical texts is never bad either and can be rewarding. Just don't become a redditor-tier asshat about reading Paradise Lost or The Canterbury Tales.

 

[Standardized Profile]

What do you mean by "classical education?" Greek and Latin? You could work through Wheelock's Latin easy enough then start reading simple texts like the Vulgate without too much effort. If you prefer proper classical Latin, there are web sites with annotations of texts that are popular with students such as the Aeneid and Catullus. I once started working through a PDF of Pharr's Homeric Greek--I was making rapid progress but I never finished it, then forgot everything and never picked up a Greek text again (other than my Greek NT, which I use mainly for the critical apparatus.)

For a general "education worth having," I'd focus on bullshit detection--logic, critical thinking, and stats if you are mathematically inclined. (And even if you are not, you should learn about frequently abused statistical concepts so you know them when you see them.) Beyond that, it's hard to say. The body of human knowledge is almost infinite, and there is more worth having than you can learn in a lifetime.

 

[Pixy]

You will need a music tutor. There's no questioning it. The internet can provide many resources, but it cannot supplant learning under the guidance of someone accredited with sufficient proficiency to teach students.

 

[Johan Schmidt]

I think it depends on what you mean. Do you mean things like just what you can read, or practical skills? I'm doing a STEM degree, and I can read all I want to for essentially free. But the reading isn't a good replacement for the practical skills you need for lab work. My university is desperate to get us into the labs again to cover shit we've missed.

 

[L50LasPak]

This is one of those thing's that absolutely lovely when someone manages to pull it off, but for like every one person who is capable of doing this there are a hundred, if not hundreds more who are too egotistical to be educated the regular way, let alone self-taught.

 

[Varg Did Nothing Wrong]

The so-called education system in the western world is unworthy of being called an education system in my opinion. Reason, logic, and the ability to debate has been replaced by the orthodoxy of wokesheviks and tards. This makes me wonder, how can you go about giving yourself an education worth having? What texts and topics should you read? What should you avoid? It would be better to give yourself a classical education in your 20s or 30s than to only get what the tards give you in school.

What the fuck would be the point of getting a "second education" in your 30s? What do you expect to happen at that point?

 

[Brahma]

Start with the Greeks

 

[Bussyking7]

For a general "education worth having," I'd focus on bullshit detection--logic, critical thinking, and stats if you are mathematically inclined. (And even if you are not, you should learn about frequently abused statistical concepts so you know them when you see them.)

Statistics should never be included in a classical education. That stuff is for applied faggots. Imagine learning Lehman Scheffe in your free time.

A classical education should involve all of, and nothing more so that you're not a peasant pussy that has real world value: The classics, philology, classical literature, music, history, philosophy, physics and pure math. All this stuff besides music can be self studied.

 

[Standardized Profile]

Statistics should never be included in a classical education. That stuff is for applied faggots. Imagine learning Lehman Scheffe in your free time.

A classical education should involve all of, and nothing more so that you're not a peasant pussy that has real world value: The classics, philology, classical literature, music, history, philosophy, physics and pure math. All this stuff besides music can be self studied.

You will note the OP asked for both "classical education" and "an education worth having." I addressed them separately. This is why critical thinking is important. You saw something that provoked an emotional reaction and, rather than responding to the post you were quoting, you responded to your own emotions. Critical thinking aims to reduce these cognitive errors.

 

[Bussyking7]

You will note the OP asked for both "classical education" and "an education worth having." I addressed them separately. This is why critical thinking is important. You saw something that provoked an emotional reaction and, rather than responding to the post you were quoting, you responded to your own emotions. Critical thinking aims to reduce these cognitive errors.

Hahahaha. Anyone that has any remote semblance of a reading comprehension would see that OP considers classical education and an education worth having equivalent things. Go back to deriving your Fisher information matrix you statistics cuck.

 

[Kosher Dill]

Is this supposed to be about "classical" as in reading the great works of antiquity, or "classical" as in before the education system went to hell?

 

[Flavius Claudius Julianus]

I'm in autodidact in many ways, so certainly possible. I had a decent education when younger, but when I was 19/20 I had a burning desire to learn everything. Started by reading everything on the western canon (or most of it,) and really hammering things through until I felt as though I'd gotten even halfway in understanding it. Starting self-teaching myself Latin and French, then Greek. French I did in highschool, so I already had a decent springboard in that respect.

You eventually get to a point where you can read certain works and find numerous references to other things, from contemporary authors to the classical myths on which they might be built. It's quite to odd think now that despite not having a classical education, I can pore through a text and make notes, in Latin, referencing other authors from antiquity. Marginalia, commonplace books and the like were what I started creating, which is right in line with what learned men of the past used to do (and which is now basically non-existent.)

By the time I went to university the second time as a mature student, everyone just assumed I'd had such an education based on what I knew and could talk about. I was hesitant to correct them on this, as it's kind of weird explaining to someone that you used to spend hours looking at verb conjugations in classical Latin whilst poring over a volume of Martial. But it is what it is.

I do feel like there is a time window to some extent if you want to go down this road. I'm past thirty now, and simply don't have that fire for learning anymore. I don't have the time like I did back then, nor the inclination to put so much effort into something which, if we're being honest, doesn't really matter so much when put against my daily commitments. But I have that solid base of learning that is pretty much ineffable now, which is nice.

I'm pretty sure I'm also low-key on the spectrum, so my dedication isn't as surprising as it might seem.

 

[VIPPER?]

You can self-teach lots of things but critical thinking and debate are skills that have to be practiced. Pure logic is different but most formal logic starts to fall apart with complex issues since for as easy as it is to build a logical statement, your premises are what get called into question and you need more complex methods of confirming them (statistics (math) at the very least and lots of data collection)

I've found it's just best to read whatever you come across and talk to other people when you can. Even if what you read or who you meet is absolutely retarded, seeing what someone Actually Believes™ is important to figuring out context and how to better defend your own opinions

 

[Plague Dog]

Short answer, no. Not in my opinion. There are exceptions but it kind of depends on what you're actually trying to accomplish.

If you're talking about reading and getting wisdom from classic literature, I think you'll need to have some form of instructor there to really give you push back or new insight or be ready to read something like 6 other books for every one piece you read. A good teacher doesn't just teach you to think in the same way they think but how to analyze the works and come to your own opinion. But that doesn't mean just reading something, thinking it over and going, yeah I have my theories, because that lacks the structure of someone who knows the material and the background of the material better than you. Now you can supplement that some with reading other books on the piece but it's harder and often not as good.

The second is what you're actually trying to learn. Broadly speaking, there is knowledge you can pick up on your own but only so much can be successfully demonstrated. You can be a great artist, programmer or Spanish speaker without ever going to school for it. You can't be a great surgeon or electrician without going to school/ training for it.

The last thing is perception. Remember how I mentioned that you'll have to read something like 6 other books per classic you read? Well, we all know that most people won't do that. So if you try to present yourself as educated in that way, everyone's going to think that you did it the lazy way by default. So how are you going to convince people that you actually did all the additional work?

Finally finally, to what goal? What are you trying to accomplish by doing this? If you think you can just enrich your own life, I don't really understand why you're asking us; just go do it. If you're trying to impress others, you're not going to accomplish what you want.

 

[Weeb_Killer]

Pretty much agree with what's been said prior. All I've got to add is, read, read, read. Watching documentaries and youtube videos is the worst way to learn anything. Your brain goes into a lulled state, semi-unconscious even. With words you're forced to not only focus, but interpret and visualise the arguments and descriptions given. This builds your ability to associate concepts, which in turn improves your cognition and means of remembering detailed information. It compounds itself and expands exponentially if you apply yourself consistently over a long enough period of time.

Not that I'm anywhere close to being the complete article. The more you learn, the more you realise just how ignorant you are. As a starting point, I'd recommend reading stoic philosophy and ancient history, greek and roman in particular.

 

[Weeb_Killer]

You will need a music tutor. There's no questioning it. The internet can provide many resources, but it cannot supplant learning under the guidance of someone accredited with sufficient proficiency to teach students.

It helps, but it's not impossible to become an accomplished musician without guidance. Some of the best musicians out there are people that taught themselves by simply listening to the radio and trying to replicate it. In fact, you'll probably have a better ear for music than most classically trained musicians, if you start young enough. Above a certain age, it's difficult to acquire perfect pitch.

 

[Hey Beter]

Learn something that matters instead.

 

[Drag-on Knight 91873]

Practically agree with everything people have said prior. All I've got to add is, read, read, read. Watching documentaries and youtube videos is the worst way to learn anything. Your brain goes into a lulled state, semi-unconscious even. With words you're forced to not only focus, but interpret and visualise the arguments and descriptions given. This builds your ability to associate concepts, which in turn improves your cognition and means of remembering detailed information. It compounds itself and expands exponentially if you apply yourself consistently over a long enough period of time.

Not that I'm anywhere close to being the complete article. The more you learn, the more you realise just how ignorant you are. As a starting point, I'd recommend reading stoic philosophy and ancient history, greek and roman in particular.

I'm thinking the development of television is what started the NPC phenomenon. Before you say I'm being a giant boomer complaining about the idiot box, think about how classical or at least biblical education was taught. Pre-TV, people would cite all sorts of classical art to support their opinion, even if it was considered "trashy" melodrama like Shakespeare, especially Star Trek. As a specific example, I refer to Battlestar Galactica on how pre-Boomers wrote their shows. Now, I'm well aware that I'm citing TV pop culture to make my point about citing classical culture, but it's a necessary transition point in the timeline of book reading to TV watching to Smartphone watching.

Now look at pop culture post 2010. At it's best, it's character dramas and fantasy.* More often, it's just content. Mind-numbing content about nothing. Literally tales told by idiots. It doesn't link to anything except memes, but the memes themselves are not rooted in much beyond the joke. In a hundred years, will people still be interested in Sam Hyde? The smartphone/tablet is so much more aggressive in its propaganda than TV was. While okay TV had you quoting the shows, Youtube videos about cats don't even do that.

I don't count radio because imagination was still necessary to listen to The Lone Ranger or The Shadow.

*And note that the stand out Game of Thrones is itself citing Tolkien.

 

[Jimjamflimflam]

What the fuck would be the point of getting a "second education" in your 30s? What do you expect to happen at that point?

30s isn't that old. Some people have a late awakening. Might finally get that "click" to put all your shin order.

Speaking from experience.

To the OP, if you can't get the time to read then listen instead. Audio books are just as valuable as book reading. The book "how to read a book" has an embarrassing title to be seen in public with but the information is great. There's an audio book as well.

Edit: some people recommend against documentaries and videos. I find video taped lectured help alot for me (udemy is a good source. Never buy at full price, they run sales constantly). Video allow you to watch, rewatch, rewind if you missed something and best of all, watch at 1.5x speed.

Also just develop a love of learning rather then reading the "right" material. Better to have a passion in a subject you enjoy then a bored iinterest in what you think looks impressive to others.