War Invasion of Ukraine News Megathread - Thread is only for articles and discussion of articles, general discussion thread is still in Happenings.

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President Joe Biden on Tuesday said that the United States will impose sanctions “far beyond” the ones that the United States imposed in 2014 following the annexation of the Crimean peninsula.

“This is the beginning of a Russian invasion of Ukraine,” Biden said in a White House speech, signaling a shift in his administration’s position. “We will continue to escalate sanctions if Russia escalates,” he added.

Russian elites and their family members will also soon face sanctions, Biden said, adding that “Russia will pay an even steeper price” if Moscow decides to push forward into Ukraine. Two Russian banks and Russian sovereign debt will also be sanctioned, he said.

Also in his speech, Biden said he would send more U.S. troops to the Baltic states as a defensive measure to strengthen NATO’s position in the area.

Russia shares a border with Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania.

A day earlier, Russian President Vladimir Putin ordered troops to go into the separatist Donetsk and Lugansk regions in eastern Ukraine after a lengthy speech in which he recognized the two regions’ independence.

Western powers decried the move and began to slap sanctions on certain Russian individuals, while Germany announced it would halt plans to go ahead with the Russia-to-Germany Nord Stream 2 pipeline.

At home, Biden is facing bipartisan pressure to take more extensive actions against Russia following Putin’s decision. However, a recent poll showed that a majority of Americans believe that sending troops to Ukraine is a “bad idea,” and a slim minority believes it’s a good one.

All 27 European Union countries unanimously agreed on an initial list of sanctions targeting Russian authorities, said French Foreign Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian, and EU foreign affairs head Josep Borell claimed the package “will hurt Russia … a lot.”

Earlier Tuesday, Borell asserted that Russian troops have already entered the Donbas region, which comprises Donetsk and Lugansk, which are under the control of pro-Russia groups since 2014.

And on Tuesday, the Russian Parliament approved a Putin-back plan to use military force outside of Russia’s borders as Putin further said that Russia confirmed it would recognize the expanded borders of Lugansk and Donetsk.

“We recognized the states,” the Russian president said. “That means we recognized all of their fundamental documents, including the constitution, where it is written that their [borders] are the territories at the time the two regions were part of Ukraine.”

Speaking to reporters on Tuesday, Putin said that Ukraine is “not interested in peaceful solutions” and that “every day, they are amassing troops in the Donbas.”

Meanwhile, Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelensky on Tuesday morning again downplayed the prospect of a Russian invasion and proclaimed: “There will be no war.”

“There will not be an all-out war against Ukraine, and there will not be a broad escalation from Russia. If there is, then we will put Ukraine on a war footing,” he said in a televised address.

The White House began to signal that they would shift their own position on whether it’s the start of an invasion.

“We think this is, yes, the beginning of an invasion, Russia’s latest invasion into Ukraine,” said Jon Finer, the White House deputy national security adviser in public remarks. “An invasion is an invasion and that is what is underway.”

For weeks, Western governments have been claiming Moscow would invade its neighbor after Russia gathered some 150,000 troops along the countries’ borders. They alleged that the Kremlin would attempt to come up with a pretext to attack, while some officials on Monday said Putin’s speech recognizing the two regions was just that.

But Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin told reporters Tuesday that Russia’s “latest invasion” of Ukraine is threatening stability in the region, but he asserted that Putin can “still avoid a full blown, tragic war of choice.”

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Why would he do that? Can you read his mind? So far he has not attacked any countries under NATOs protection. The Poles would be retarded to conduct a first strike and give him reason to retaliate.
If he wasn't retarded, he wouldn't have attacked Ukraine in the first place. Just use military presence on the border to wring concessions out of NATO, Ukraine, and Sleepy Joe, maybe get them to recognize the independence of the Ukrainian separatists, but other than that, keep things peaceful. Instead, he risked everything in this foolish attack, and he's driving his nation into ruin, not caring about the consequences.

Does that look like a patient, calm, rational man to you? Or the kind that would start WW3 for bullshit reasons?
 
If he wasn't retarded, he wouldn't have attacked Ukraine in the first place. Just use military presence on the border to wring concessions out of NATO, Ukraine, and Sleepy Joe, maybe get them to recognize the independence of the Ukrainian separatists, but other than that, keep things peaceful. Instead, he risked everything in this foolish attack, and he's driving his nation into ruin, not caring about the consequences.

Does that look like a patient, calm, rational man to you? Or the kind that would start WW3 for bullshit reasons?
I think hes a least smart enough not to attack NATO. What makes you so certain he will? He knew no one would come fight for Ukraine.
 
I think hes a least smart enough not to attack NATO. What makes you so certain he will?
Because he was stupid enough to attack Ukraine, which was armed to the teeth by NATO, with an army of high school boys who were in no shape for a war. And we're now seeing why that's a bad idea. And instead of pulling out or declaring a compromise, he'd rather see his country burn rather than stop.

That isn't smart at all. And it's not like the Poles will give him a choice, if they see Ukraine destroyed, they wouldn't want to be next. You'll have two sides with two angry neighbors ready to blow the other to hell.
 
Clearly Ukraine was not armed to the teeth. Where ever did you get that idea?
The fact that NATO was giving them support? Or the fact that they've been shooting down Russian tanks and even aircraft? The fact that the Russians have resorted to shelling the Ukrainians instead of openly engaging them where their men could get captured and their vehicles destroyed or taken by the enemy? If Putin actually had two brain cells to rub when planning this invasion, it would have been over in 1-4 days.
 
We were already involved before that due to Lend-Lease AND the fact that Japan was Germany's ally in the east.
We were involved in the German-Polish war by...not being involved in the war? Okay.
The moment the bombs dropped on Pearl Harbor, Germany declared war on the USA.
Quick question, how many German troops were in Pearl Harbor attack? How many Polish? Zero? Huh, I guess your examples keep failing to land. Polish war was European event, and USA only got involved over Japan's war on US, in which not a single German troop fought. Here's some examples from Early, mid, and late war
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It's like some people here forget that Germany and Japan were allies or something.
How did Japanese affect Battle of Britain? Battle of Atlantic? War with France? Russia? Africa?
That there was this thing called the Rome-Berlin-Tokyo Axis.
Literally was not. While they were part of the axis, this name was never used. The closest version was the original alliance with Italy called "Rome–Berlin Axis". When Japan joined (via TripartitePact) it became just axis.
Stopping Russia at Ukraine will avoid this. The moment they share a border with NATO, WW3 will start. Because Putin sure as fuck won't stay on his side of the border, and neither will NATO, after seeing what they did to Ukraine. If the NATO countries don't start the war, Putin will, and once that happens, nukes fly.
"To avoid war with Russia, we need to go to war with Russia NOW, and that will avoid a war with Russia by preventing them from going to war with us"

I see. Counter-offer, stop provoking Russia and the dude with the nukes, and stop using retarded cold war tactics that nearly destroyed the world countless times.

Because I don't trust either the NATO nations or Putin's Russia to stay on their side of the border once the two share a border.
But they already share a border. If that was enough for NATO to declare war, it would have happened. I don't see how a bigger border will magically change the situation.
Either they'll launch their own assault, or Putin will, once his forces recover and finish gathering supplies. Which would lead to the nukes flying and WW3.
Neither country is that retarded.
If he wasn't retarded, he wouldn't have attacked Ukraine in the first place.
Why not? Ukraine was free land, at least in so far that it doesn't come attached with threats of nuclear weapons. West loudly declared that they don't want Ukraine in Nato, Putin took advantage.
 
It remained a European problem. USA only got involved over Philippines and Japan (i.e. Not Poland)
Japan being in an alliance with the British Empire have long been an major issue for the United States before the Spanish-American War ever started. And it was U.S. and Japanese interests in China was where U.S. and Japan started butting diplomatic heads against each other.
 
The fact that NATO was giving them support? Or the fact that they've been shooting down Russian tanks and even aircraft? The fact that the Russians have resorted to shelling the Ukrainians instead of openly engaging them where their men could get captured and their vehicles destroyed or taken by the enemy? If Putin actually had two brain cells to rub when planning this invasion, it would have been over in 1-4 days.
But Russia is still pushing in and a lost tank or aircraft isnt going to stop them. Call me when Russia is in retreat.

Putin is crazy but not stupid. I really doubt he'll start ww3 any time soon. Totally possible though.
This guy gets it. Putin can weather sanctions and embargos, but a full scale NATO attack (AKA the USA) would end him.
 
We were involved in the German-Polish war by...not being involved in the war? Okay.

Quick question, how many German troops were in Pearl Harbor attack? How many Polish? Zero? Huh, I guess your examples keep failing to land. Polish war was European event, and USA only got involved over Japan's war on US, in which not a single German troop fought. Here's some examples from Early, mid, and late war

Literally was not. While they were part of the axis, this name was never used. The closest version was the original alliance with Italy called "Rome–Berlin Axis". When Japan joined (via TripartitePact) it became just axis.
The Japanese were still allied with the Germans, and we were still somewhat allied with the British thanks to the Lend-Lease deal. We were already helping Britain in the war even before German and American troops fought. In fact, as the Germans were bombing London and taking Paris, their Japanese friends weren't just attacking Pearl Harbor, but the colonial possessions of the Allied powers as well.

"To avoid war with Russia, we need to go to war with Russia NOW, and that will avoid a war with Russia by preventing them from going to war with us"
Not war, but supporting Ukraine through money, weapons, and any other support other than having US soldiers shooting Russians in the face

I see. Counter-offer, stop provoking Russia and the dude with the nukes, and stop using retarded cold war tactics that nearly destroyed the world countless times.
We weren't provoking the Russians; they were on the cusp of being able to bully Sleepy Joe and NATO for concessions. I'm sure that if Putin just sat on his ass for another 5-10 years, NATO would have gradually disintegrated due to everyone but the Polish and the Americans paying their dues. The rest of Europe would have just gotten up, left, and say "NATO is useless horseshit" as they continue to buy Russian oil and enrich Putin.

Instead, Putin attacked, giving NATO all the advertisement it needs.

But they already share a border. If that was enough for NATO to declare war, it would have happened. I don't see how a bigger border will magically change the situation.
Because they will be massing troops on the Polish border. Which will cause the kind of tension that will boil into war, since neither the Polish nor Putin will stay grounded.

Neither country is that retarded.
Russia's recent actions proved otherwise.

Why not? Ukraine was free land, at least in so far that it doesn't come attached with threats of nuclear weapons. West loudly declared that they don't want Ukraine in Nato, Putin took advantage.
Which was stupid. If Putin wanted NATO gone, he should have given the west no reason to have it at all. Keep pushing for concessions using armed forces at the border, use the fear of force rather than force itself, Sleepy Joe and an unpopular Zelensky would have caved in. Instead, he invaded, turning Zelensky into a national hero, making the Europeans suddenly gung-ho about supporting NATO, and blowing the Russian economy back into the Dark Ages.

The man quite literally snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.
 
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One of the things that I (as a Burger) have trouble understanding about Europe is how ethnicity and national allegiance work in areas where the borders shift every few years.

I get that there are a ton of ethnic Russians in Ukraine, but I'm not sure why they would feel loyal to a different country, especially a country that is bombing the shit out of their own neighborhoods. Especially given that unlike in Yugoslavia, they mostly seem to share the same religion, more or less.

There are a ton of what one might call "ethnic Mexicans" in the southwestern US who settled here 200 years ago before the area was the US, but there's no assumption or expectation that they would prefer to be in Mexico. There's also a bunch of ethnic French, a handful of ethnic Swiss Germans, and a handful of ethnic Russians dicking around where they didn't cross the border, the border crossed them.

Are there still people who identify as Austro-Hungarian? Or people who identify as Thuringian?

I guess I don't understand why ethnicity would trump national allegiance when you're a "minority" population living among people who are very, very similar, to the point where you look the same, the languages are mutually intelligible, and one of your own is the president.
That is actually a very interesting question. Its something that prople have been thinking about for decades, if not centuries, about what makes a nation. To answer your question, the easiest way is to invent a national-myth to unite the different ethnicities and group into one single group, the nation. See, aside from appearance or genetics, a group identity are made by shared history or culture. And what are history and culture if not a collection of stories?

These national myths are selected to create a shared identity so that people of different ethnicities, religion, or opinion can band together under one single banner. And who selected these national-myths you asked? Either it was the government, the intellectuals, or the people themselves. Example of these national-myth, for the burgers as an example, is the American Dream, of Melting Pot, and Liberty. Hell, the American Constitution itself could be considered as a national-myth as well
Like I said on the Biden thread. You sent Harris somehwere to fix a problem and things go form bad to worse.
Maybe that is Joe's intention, to make the situation worse so he can drag US into the war, if not the Europeans
 
Who let these tards into the thread?

Some of you are ascribing cleverness, organization, and rationality to Putin when he has in no way demonstrated that he deserves the credit for these things.

A bunch of tards from the San Francisco Bay Area can manage to convoy to Burning Man every year.

Putin is less smart, organized, or rational than the faggots who ran Ghost Ship.

I would put nothing past him at this time.
 
Who let these tards into the thread?

Some of you are ascribing cleverness, organization, and rationality to Putin when he has in no way demonstrated that he deserves the credit for these things.

A bunch of tards from the San Francisco Bay Area can manage to convoy to Burning Man every year.

Putin is less smart, organized, or rational than the faggots who ran Ghost Ship.

I would put nothing past him at this time.
Hes smart enough to attack countries that no one will come help. you guys seem to think he wants to steamroll over all of Europe when he has shown no signs of doing so. Sorry to interrupt your hugbox of Putin is a retard and the Russian army has failed megathread though.
 
Hes smart enough to attack countries that no one will come help. you guys seem to think he wants to steamroll over all of Europe when he has shown no signs of doing so.
Yes, smart enough to send high school boys so that Ukrainian nationalists can kill them or capture them and use them for propaganda.

Smart enough to let the west sanction Russia's economy to hell.

Smart enough to cause such a political shitshow back home, the people are beginning to protest against him, and even some military units have refused to follow orders.

Smart enough indeed.

If there's anything this war has demonstrated it's

1. Putin is clearly arrogant and has bad intel, likely from 'yes men' surrounding him
2. His army is far weaker than the world estimated, and by a huge margin
3. the USSR's ghost lives on in the form of its equipment we're seeing being used today.
Exactly. This is what happens when you fire everyone who criticizes you; everyone around you is a yes-man, who will tell you what you want to hear, not what you need to hear.

Putin needed to know that the Russian army isn't up to snuff, and a majority of its soldiers are barely capable of fighting.

He needed to know that his army's vehicles needed more maintenance than what they currently have.

He needed to know that the Ukrainians weren't going to just take his side when he marches his army in.

But no, anyone who wanted to publicly disagree with the great leader, would likely end up like Navalny, which is why they kept their mouths shut until the problems were too big to ignore.

Damn, this IS Downfall Hitler all over again!
 
Samsung has become the latest company to suspend shipments to Russia, Bloomberg reports.

In a statement, the company said: “Our thoughts are with everyone who has been impacted and our priority is to ensure the safety of all our employees and their families.” The company is also donating $6 million, including $1 million in consumer electronics products, to humanitarian efforts in the region, according to Bloomberg.

Microsoft has also suspended all sales and services to Russia, while Apple has suspended sales of iPhones, and restricted other services.
Poor Russians, now they'll have to make do with the cheap Chinese androids

Also please stop shitting the thread, if you want to be an edgyposter or an a-log, just go to the Happenings thread instead
 
Says the guy who ignores historical patterns while acting like Neville Chamberlain. Sure, the Russian leaders who have an open grudge against America for causing the downfall of their beloved Soviet Union will just play nice with America if we give them Ukraine. Yeah. That's like what if the British in 1939 said that giving up Poland will calm Hitler down.


We were already involved before that due to Lend-Lease AND the fact that Japan was Germany's ally in the east. The moment the bombs dropped on Pearl Harbor, Germany declared war on the USA.

It's like some people here forget that Germany and Japan were allies or something. That there was this thing called the Rome-Berlin-Tokyo Axis.
I think you're kind of getting some timelines a bit backwards through much of that.
- Lend Lease Came AFTER Poland. Poland triggered the British and French to declare war on Germany. That didn't go so well for them. Lend Lease mainly started after the British abandoned all of their tanks and weaponry at Dunkirk.
- While Japan was technically a member of the Axis Nations there really was no direct Military connection between them and Berlin, certainly not before, and not much even after Pearl Harbor. Japan cut a diplomatic deal in exchange for French Indo-China aka Vietnam. Nobody attacked Japan because of Hitler, nor did Japan attack anyone else in response to the Nazi continental wars. They simply acted on their own to hoover up the defeated or weakened Colonial Powers holdings in Southeast Asia and the South Pacific. In support of their ongoing Chinese Quagmire. (Because when one war is tapping out all of your resources, the best solution is to start three more.) The Japanese did have an admiration for the German Military and based much of their own after it. But that was mostly 19th Century. Not the Nazi Wehrmacht.
 
Poor Russians, now they'll have to make do with the cheap Chinese androids

Also please stop shitting the thread, if you want to be an edgyposter or an a-log, just go to the Happenings thread instead
More good news for China. Another exclusive market for their merchandise.

Russia needs to be fucked up, and will likely end up fucked u from this. They need a bloody nose so they can understand what power level they're working at, and then weakened from that level. That's how ww3 is assuredly never started, no matter how small or big the odds look right now.

Russia. Needs. To. Get. Fucked. Up.
That's already happening. Although I wish the effects of this economic embargo hurt the oligarchs more than the Russian people. Many of them didn't ask for this, and they are also victim's of Putin's idiocy, just as the Ukrainians are.

I think you're kind of getting some timelines a bit backwards through much of that.
- Lend Lease Came AFTER Poland. Poland triggered the British and French to declare war on Germany. That didn't go so well for them. Lend Lease mainly started after the British abandoned all of their tanks and weaponry at Dunkirk.
I agree. I was talking about before Pearl Harbor. Poland was 1939, Pearl Harbor was December 1941. That means there was two years of American Lend-Lease aid to Britain before an Axis member attacked America.

- While Japan was technically a member of the Axis Nations there really was no direct Military connection between them and Berlin, certainly not before, and not much even after Pearl Harbor. Japan cut a diplomatic deal in exchange for French Indo-China aka Vietnam. Nobody attacked Japan because of Hitler, nor did Japan attack anyone else in response to the Nazi continental wars. They simply acted on their own to hoover up the defeated or weakened Colonial Powers holdings in Southeast Asia and the South Pacific. In support of their ongoing Chinese Quagmire. (Because when one war is tapping out all of your resources, the best solution is to start three more.) The Japanese did have an admiration for the German Military and based much of their own after it. But that was mostly 19th Century. Not the Nazi Wehrmacht.
There was still some collusion, as while the Germans pounded Britain and France proper, Japan went after their colonial holdings in Asia.
 
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Japan being in an alliance with the British Empire have long been an major issue for the United States before the Spanish-American War ever started.
Congrats. You missed the discussion by ~40 years.
And it was U.S. and Japanese interests in China was where U.S. and Japan started butting diplomatic heads against each other.
Thank you for reinforcing my point that USA's involvement in WW2 had nothing to do with Poland.
In fact, as the Germans were besieging London and taking Paris, their Japanese friends weren't just attacking Pearl Harbor, but the colonial possessions of the Allied powers as well.
Please learn history. German victory over Paris was more than a year before Pearl Harbor and Japan's attack on Allied colonies.
The Japanese were still allied with the Germans, and we were still somewhat allied with the British thanks to the Lend-Lease deal. We were already helping Britain in the war even before German and American troops fought.
USA joined WW2 because of Japan. That's a fact. It may have been giving guns to British beforehand, yet that doesn't change the fact that they did not declare war over Poland, or even France.

Not war, but supporting Ukraine through money, weapons, and any other support other than having US soldiers shooting Russians in the face
Yes, wonderful. I'm sure the guy you claim is insane enough to start a nuclear war with NATO will be satisfied with this loophole. "Ha, Putin! We technically aren't at war, so no nukes, Mr. Insane guy". Your ideas on Putin's mental state are frankly contradictory.
We weren't provoking the Russians;
NATO was literally made to provoke the Russians. Their expansion (in violation to agreements with the Russians) and coups on Russian-friendly lands didn't help either. Russian's were promised by US, that "not an inch of NATO’s present military jurisdiction will spread in an eastern direction".
Because they will be massing troops on the Polish border. Which will cause the kind of tension that will boil into war, since neither the Polish nor Putin will stay grounded.
That assumes both the Polish and Putin are retarded, which we have no proof they are.
Russia's recent actions proved otherwise.
I must have missed them attacking a NATO country. I mean, you wouldn't be using Ukraine as an example of Russia attacking NATO would you? Because that'd be disingenuous, and flat out wrong.

Which was stupid. If Putin wanted NATO gone, he should have given the west no reason to have it at all. Keep pushing for concessions using armed forces at the border, use the fear of force rather than force itself, Sleepy Joe and an unpopular Zelensky would have caved in.
He literally tried that, and they didn't.
Instead, he invaded, turning Zelensky into a national hero, making the Europeans suddenly gung-ho about NATO,
Dude, what the fuck are you on? Europe was always pro NATO.
and blowing the Russian economy back into the Dark Ages.
Literally untrue.

Please look up what you are talking about before you next debate someone. You have been wrong about pretty much every non-subjective thing so far. This does not make a fun discussion.
 
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