- Joined
- Mar 10, 2019
When did people start to assume that every single person on this godforsaken planet we live in needs to find them attractive? It's outright delusional and completely impossible, they're setting themselves up for failure.
Fat Acceptance Movement / Fat Girlcows
- Thread starter AtroposHeart
- Start date
- Joined
- Sep 20, 2016
I would argue that somebody who loves herself would get help for her obvious ongoing disordered eating, instead of giving up.
I would argue that somebody who loves herself wouldn't spend time fixated on those she believes hate her, or feel she needs to respond to them.
I would argue that somebody who loves herself wouldn't engage in self-presentation that only makes her more unattractive and repellent—faded pink hair, smudgy pink eyebrows, and random tattoos that look like the fine-point Sharpie doodles a bored middle-schooler might do on their desktop during class. I don't care for the look of female bodybuilders—but I can respect the focus and discipline it takes to get there, and the pride taken in the achievement. This fatty? It's just chaos and self-hatred, all the way to the bone.
- Joined
- Jul 28, 2020
- Joined
- May 16, 2015
I can't with that stupid shirt. I'm willing to bet this woman tells others to wear masks and take the vaccine.
- Joined
- Jan 1, 2021
Alert, alert! Lindo Bacon, co-founder of HAES is being cancelled right now.
A fatty made an exposée Patreon post, and then another fatty came out with a story.
(Archive 1, Archive 2)
I haven't read the walls of text yet, but I'm sure the outrage will be absolutely stupid.
A fatty made an exposée Patreon post, and then another fatty came out with a story.
(Archive 1, Archive 2)
I haven't read the walls of text yet, but I'm sure the outrage will be absolutely stupid.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Apr 15, 2021
The “labour” of fat people
Merely existing isn’t labor
Merely existing isn’t labor
- Joined
- Sep 20, 2016
God damn. This fatty who is mad at Lindo Bacon churns out words at the same rate she takes in calories. This shit is hella long and yes, I read all of it):
Marquisele Mercedes
MAR 8, 2022 AT 3:05 AM
I Will Never Work With You
Before I say what I'm going to say, I want to be clear about the reasons why I'm saying it. While there has been a long history of entanglement between Health At Every Size, Fat Studies, and fat activism, these overlaps have often been parasitic in ways that replicate the overarching hierarchies that shape our world. To put it simply, even in matters of fat, the thinnest and whitest people, often under the guise of "allyship", have benefited the most—socially, personally, and professionally. This has given thin "allies" a ridiculous amount of leeway to be, frankly, fucking horrible to fat people over the decades that this movement has spanned, as well as given them a certain cushion of protection from being criticized for their gross conduct.
I am no stranger to the ridiculous antics of thin people who claim to be on my side in the struggle for fat liberation. If you follow me on social media, you know that those ridiculous antics are some of the things I complain about the most. That is because being the person that I am with the identities I hold means that I am constantly being subjected to the paternalistic, condescending, racist, and exploitative behaviors of thin, usually white, people who insist that they are leveraging their privilege on my behalf when they're far more interested in... well, not actually doing that.
What spurred me to make this post is that I had a series of interactions with someone—Lindo Bacon, who is the subject of this post—that was so ridiculously transparent in its disrespect and paternalism towards fat people and the stakes of fat activism that I felt the potential consequences of not saying something were much worse than saying something.
Until the day when "allies" no longer have the ability to weaponize their privilege against us, I want fat people to be able to make informed decisions about who they collaborate with and who they are connected to.
I don't want fat people to have to be tapped into whisper networks (which provide valuable, but uneven protection) in order to avoid being commodified by people like Lindo.
I want to make space for other people to share their negative experiences with Lindo or anyone else who has built a career off of fat people's marginalization. For example, I know now that Lindo's negative behavior towards other people has ranged from asshole-ish to downright exploitative. I am only sharing my (comparatively tame) experiences here because that is all I have the right to share, but I am far from the only one.
And it is beyond time that we collectively take a stand and reject the rationalizations that "allies" use to continue their shitty behavior towards us.
That is why I am sharing what I'm sharing.
Now, we can proceed.
___________________________
MAR 8, 2022 AT 3:05 AM
I Will Never Work With You
Before I say what I'm going to say, I want to be clear about the reasons why I'm saying it. While there has been a long history of entanglement between Health At Every Size, Fat Studies, and fat activism, these overlaps have often been parasitic in ways that replicate the overarching hierarchies that shape our world. To put it simply, even in matters of fat, the thinnest and whitest people, often under the guise of "allyship", have benefited the most—socially, personally, and professionally. This has given thin "allies" a ridiculous amount of leeway to be, frankly, fucking horrible to fat people over the decades that this movement has spanned, as well as given them a certain cushion of protection from being criticized for their gross conduct.
I am no stranger to the ridiculous antics of thin people who claim to be on my side in the struggle for fat liberation. If you follow me on social media, you know that those ridiculous antics are some of the things I complain about the most. That is because being the person that I am with the identities I hold means that I am constantly being subjected to the paternalistic, condescending, racist, and exploitative behaviors of thin, usually white, people who insist that they are leveraging their privilege on my behalf when they're far more interested in... well, not actually doing that.
What spurred me to make this post is that I had a series of interactions with someone—Lindo Bacon, who is the subject of this post—that was so ridiculously transparent in its disrespect and paternalism towards fat people and the stakes of fat activism that I felt the potential consequences of not saying something were much worse than saying something.
Until the day when "allies" no longer have the ability to weaponize their privilege against us, I want fat people to be able to make informed decisions about who they collaborate with and who they are connected to.
I don't want fat people to have to be tapped into whisper networks (which provide valuable, but uneven protection) in order to avoid being commodified by people like Lindo.
I want to make space for other people to share their negative experiences with Lindo or anyone else who has built a career off of fat people's marginalization. For example, I know now that Lindo's negative behavior towards other people has ranged from asshole-ish to downright exploitative. I am only sharing my (comparatively tame) experiences here because that is all I have the right to share, but I am far from the only one.
And it is beyond time that we collectively take a stand and reject the rationalizations that "allies" use to continue their shitty behavior towards us.
That is why I am sharing what I'm sharing.
Now, we can proceed.
___________________________
Lindo first reached out to me in mid-November of last year. They wanted to know if I had "time/interest in collaborative (paid) writing". I said I did, so we set something up for before Thanksgiving. At this meeting, Lindo informed me that I was one of three people they were considering to co-write a significant HAES-related book project with them. I was surprised.
Given what I'd heard through the fat whisper networks, I'd gathered that Lindo is not someone who enjoys sharing the spotlight with others. There is also the fact that HAES is not very compatible with my brand of work. I have many criticisms of HAES and I'm not particularly impressed by the supposed "progress" that the framework has driven for fat folks. But during our meeting, Lindo seemed excited about the drastic difference between our perspectives and the prospect of us working together. I tried to put the voice in my head on mute, the voice that told me that Lindo just wanted to be seen working with me in order to maintain relevance and have a ~Black fat~ to trot out as some sort of diversity stamp of approval. I tried to be excited about the opportunity for what it was—an opportunity to be a co-author on a book with Lindo Bacon, the "authority" on HAES and arguably the most well known person in the mainstream size-inclusive/health space. If I could manage to write this book with them before I even graduated my PhD program, that could be a huge career booster for me. And yet.
Even with the possible pros of the collaboration in my mind, I couldn't get that voice to shut up. It was like an ear worm speaking a truth I couldn't ignore. Any marginalized person who has been presented with this sort of opportunity understands the inescapability of that truth. In an age where the appearance of social consciousness is a valuable marketing strategy, the fear that a well deserved professional opportunity was only provided due to the convenient convergence of your expertise and marginalized status is always present.
And it is always present because, often, our fears about being a diversity pick are proven right—not in the way conservatives often weaponize against marginalized people, but in the way that "allies" often quite literally view marginalized people as disposable and interchangeable checkmarks for the diversity charts in their mind.
This time was no exception.
After our first meeting, there was a stretch of time during which Lindo said they were in ongoing convos with their publisher about the project. Our meeting was very light on the details I'm most concerned with during collaborations—things like compensation, logistics, roles, and boundaries were not discussed—and it seemed like those details wouldn't be ironed out anytime soon so I just refocused on my own projects and tried to keep the ear worm at bay while I waited.
In January, Lindo emailed me again saying they had more clarity on the project after talks with their publisher and that they wanted to meet again. They were eager enough to email me three times over the course of a weekend, which, frankly, irritated the shit out of me. By this time, I was hoping Lindo was leaning more towards one of their other choices because I'd had enough discussions with fellow fat folks and former collaborators of theirs that I knew I didn't really want to work with them but everyone I spoke to encouraged me to think on it for as long as I could before declining, so I showed up to my Zoom meeting with Lindo intent on just going with the flow.
Lindo informed me that they had, in fact, decided on me as their co-author for the book project, which, again, is a significant HAES-related project that we referred to as a "rewrite" of the HAES framework during our meetings. Lindo expressed to me several times during each meeting that they were embarrassed about how their first HAES book was lacking with regards to oppression. My role would be to help them revamp and revise the framework... or so I thought.
Despite all the eagerness Lindo displayed towards my perspective and ideas—including towards my clearly and openly stated intention to turn HAES inside-out—when we got to the topic of what our roles would be in the project, things soured quickly. Below is a transcript of our meeting from that turning point in our conversation. Please try to read it carefully and note the ways Lindo attempts to justify their behavior:
Given what I'd heard through the fat whisper networks, I'd gathered that Lindo is not someone who enjoys sharing the spotlight with others. There is also the fact that HAES is not very compatible with my brand of work. I have many criticisms of HAES and I'm not particularly impressed by the supposed "progress" that the framework has driven for fat folks. But during our meeting, Lindo seemed excited about the drastic difference between our perspectives and the prospect of us working together. I tried to put the voice in my head on mute, the voice that told me that Lindo just wanted to be seen working with me in order to maintain relevance and have a ~Black fat~ to trot out as some sort of diversity stamp of approval. I tried to be excited about the opportunity for what it was—an opportunity to be a co-author on a book with Lindo Bacon, the "authority" on HAES and arguably the most well known person in the mainstream size-inclusive/health space. If I could manage to write this book with them before I even graduated my PhD program, that could be a huge career booster for me. And yet.
Even with the possible pros of the collaboration in my mind, I couldn't get that voice to shut up. It was like an ear worm speaking a truth I couldn't ignore. Any marginalized person who has been presented with this sort of opportunity understands the inescapability of that truth. In an age where the appearance of social consciousness is a valuable marketing strategy, the fear that a well deserved professional opportunity was only provided due to the convenient convergence of your expertise and marginalized status is always present.
And it is always present because, often, our fears about being a diversity pick are proven right—not in the way conservatives often weaponize against marginalized people, but in the way that "allies" often quite literally view marginalized people as disposable and interchangeable checkmarks for the diversity charts in their mind.
This time was no exception.
After our first meeting, there was a stretch of time during which Lindo said they were in ongoing convos with their publisher about the project. Our meeting was very light on the details I'm most concerned with during collaborations—things like compensation, logistics, roles, and boundaries were not discussed—and it seemed like those details wouldn't be ironed out anytime soon so I just refocused on my own projects and tried to keep the ear worm at bay while I waited.
In January, Lindo emailed me again saying they had more clarity on the project after talks with their publisher and that they wanted to meet again. They were eager enough to email me three times over the course of a weekend, which, frankly, irritated the shit out of me. By this time, I was hoping Lindo was leaning more towards one of their other choices because I'd had enough discussions with fellow fat folks and former collaborators of theirs that I knew I didn't really want to work with them but everyone I spoke to encouraged me to think on it for as long as I could before declining, so I showed up to my Zoom meeting with Lindo intent on just going with the flow.
Lindo informed me that they had, in fact, decided on me as their co-author for the book project, which, again, is a significant HAES-related project that we referred to as a "rewrite" of the HAES framework during our meetings. Lindo expressed to me several times during each meeting that they were embarrassed about how their first HAES book was lacking with regards to oppression. My role would be to help them revamp and revise the framework... or so I thought.
Despite all the eagerness Lindo displayed towards my perspective and ideas—including towards my clearly and openly stated intention to turn HAES inside-out—when we got to the topic of what our roles would be in the project, things soured quickly. Below is a transcript of our meeting from that turning point in our conversation. Please try to read it carefully and note the ways Lindo attempts to justify their behavior:
]Lindo: You know, like certainly all the prescriptive stuff about what to eat needs to go.
Mikey: Yes. Yeah. Yeah.
Lindo: Um... but I think it's also important that like, we don't lose that kind of self-helpy thing that kind of speaks to people. Like, if you can think back about why the book influenced you, like what help drew you to it and made you think it was such a good book. Like that—— we have to make sure that that stays.
Mikey: Got it.
Lindo: It's gonna be—— I think it's always tricky to bring in higher-level arguments and
Mikey: Yes. [laughs]
Lindo: And more nuance, right? Because that's a really important thing. Because if you don't have nuance, it's just the white default.
Mikey: Yeah. Yeah.
Lindo: Or whatever the—— the dominant default, right? So it's going to be really tricky to kind of keep this as a really accessible book... but that's really important, I think, to its success.
Mikey: Absolutely. Yeah. Um, and just for like applicability sake, we want people to be able to understand it and relate to it. And that's, that's part of the reason of like, why we're talking about our own stories in it. Um, okay, great. Yeah, no, this is great. Um...
Lindo: Okay. So yeah, I wouldn't be surprised that if we were to get into a more in-depth conversation about how the book's going to change and what we need to do, that it would be an awesome conversation. Like we would both have a lot to bring to it and we would both be on the same page. Like, I feel like that's going to be kind of an exciting thing, is that kind of collaboration.
Mikey: Yeah!
Lindo: Right? And I'm not worried about it happening, right? That just feels like it's gonna work. We're gonna do this. Um, the, so—— and after this, I can send to you some of the notes that I've developed of what are the basics I've been thinking about and that's a document that we can then build out together, um, so that we know what we're going. Is it okay. Now if we can kind of switch a little bit to what our roles would be?
Mikey: Yeah! Let's do it.
Lindo: Okay. Um, so, you know, given that it's my book and perceived as my book and you know, like my name sells the book in a lot of ways. You know, that's unfortunate, but like this isn't like a collaboration of people doing equal things. Um... yeah. Like, um, I—— in my mind——
Mikey: Okay.
Lindo: Um, and like... so I still want to maintain some of that control. Um, because I'm only writing this book if, um, the stuff that I don't like to do is stuff that, um, someone else takes on. Because otherwise it'll just be too painful for me.
Mikey: I see.
Lindo: And I'll tell you what that is in a moment. And I have a feeling that it's stuff that you like doing anyway, you know, that we might be compatible that way. But the main reason why I'm really looking to like, uh, I want to call this other person a coauthor, is because I really want to make sure that you have investment in this book and that, you know, you aren't like—— you would only put your name on something that you are a hundred percent behind.
Mikey: Yeah.
Lindo: So I don't want you creating things for me. I want to make sure that this book represents you as well as me.
Mikey: Mhm. Yeah.
Lindo: But, but again, you know, like there's going to be a lot of things where we're just using my old writing because a lot of it is still usable.
Mikey: ...Okay. Yeah. Um. So here's my thoughts about this because... when you say that you want to sort of keep... like you want to sort of guide, you want to have the ability to still guide the project, like the book in a way that like makes sense to you. Like what does that mean?
Lindo: I should——um, yeah. And like, I should explain that because I don't think by itself it's totally true.
Mikey: Yeah, okay.
Lindo: Did you want to ask a question before I?
Mikey: No, no, no, no, go ahead. Go ahead. Yeah.
Lindo: So, um. Well, I feel like because this is my book and because, you know, I followed it for so long and I've been speaking about it, I've been seen as the authority on Health at Every Size. Like I have a lot of the expertise to kind of, to know what works and what didn't work and where it should head. Um, so and again, I think that there's still a lot that I want to be able to keep in this book. This is not a new book. This is a revision of an old book, which is important because if we did it as a new book, we would, we wouldn't be able to capture all of the people who are already devotees of the first book.
Mikey: Okay. So here's my, here's where my hesitation is coming from. Um, as we've spoken about, like, there is a lot about the HAES paradigm that needs to be revised. Like a lot. Um, and I just don't see... [pauses] Well, maybe...
Lindo: I can just interject here to——
Mikey: Yeah, go ahead.
Lindo: Um, that I agree with you there. Um, and um, I feel like my coauthor and I really did that in Body Respect. That a lot of the things that I saw as problematic or changed in that book, so I feel like if you want to see where I'm coming from——
Mikey: I do, I do.
Lindo: Like that book would really help a lot. Um, and yeah, but it also makes it. Because, because you have some hesitations or some fear that there's just too much, a lot that needs to be changed, then I think we'll need to, like early on, really see if we're identifying the same things.
Mikey: Yeah. Um, yeah, for sure. I think it'll be helpful for me to review Body Respect and sort of see how it's different from what I remember from the original book. Or maybe just like, I'll just do a direct comparison of the two and I'll reread both. I'll reread the first one and read the second one. Um, there's another piece of this where like, I also just... with this specific work, i, what you're describing in terms of like, control has sort of like the implication that this is like a hierarchical working relationship and that I'm not okay with.
As far as I'm concerned, like I have very specialized expertise that HAES needs, that the book that is the rewrite will need. And if I'm remembering the original HAES book correctly, the version, the rewrite version in my head that I would be okay putting my name on is drastically different.
Lindo: Okay, then maybe this isn't gonna work out.
Mikey: Yeah. I don't think this.
Lindo: There's no way I'm writing a new book.
Mikey: Yeah. I think that, um, I am both not okay with a hierarchical working relationship and I'm also like... It doesn't make sense to me to have a hierarchical working relationship when essentially HAES should be more accommodating of fat liberation politics. And I am the fat liberationist. And I'm also the person with lived experience of fatness. And so I don't exactly see how it is justified for me to follow your lead on the next chapter of HAES, when really, like, my views are the ones that should be accommodated in the new version of HAES. And like, I get what you're saying, that this is not a new book. This is a rewrite that you want to make sure is widely accessible, widely reaching and like retains the magic of the original one. But I think that if that's what you're aiming to do, then I really just might not be the right co-writer for you.
Lindo: Okay. Um, well I think that the word 'hierarchical' is awkward.
Mikey: Yeah.
Lindo: Um, but I also think that regardless of what we say and try to do, like, there's this power dynamic that's built in already, um, because you know, it was my book.
Mikey: Right but you are now asking me to co-write the rewrite for you. If both of our names are going on it, it's then our book. [laughs] Do you understand what I'm saying? I have a lot of respect for the work you did with the original one and it was extremely transformative at the time, but—— and I also know that there is a baked in power dynamic between the two of us, but it's not because you wrote the original book. It's because you are a thin person who is trying to do transformative work in the space. But you are thin and I am fat and that is the power dynamic. I'm also Black and you are not. That is the power dynamic, not the fact that you wrote the original book. And I think that——
Lindo: Part of, part of the reason why I'm so drawn to you doing this is because I recognize that as a weakness of the book. You know, I was a very privileged person writing this book and I see all, I see so many ways in which my privilege caused me to write a book that was for other privileged people.
Mikey: Mhm.
Lindo: And so I thought it was really important when bringing in someone else, that they have very different identities than I do. And can be seeing things that I might not see and, you know, and bring that experience to it. So for example, like the self-acceptance chapter is going to look really different when you add in how it's a different experience for people who are in fatter bodies.
Mikey: I mean, it would have to be radically different, yeah. I mean, my views on self-acceptance are very much like akin to, I don't know if you've read Da'Shaun's book, but——
Lindo: I read Da'Shaun's book. Yeah.
Mikey: Yeah. I am very much of the opinion that like... I don't know if I would base an entire chapter on self-acceptance. If anything, I would write a whole chapter on the fallacy of self-acceptance. But, um... that's the kind of thing I'm talking about. Where it's like, we're drawing on your book because it's the original and this is the rewrite, but if I have to turn everything inside out, I don't exactly see how that's the same book.
Lindo: Okay, then it might be that we're not going be able to do this.
Mikey: I think, I think it's just not going to work out.
Lindo: Another possibility if you'd be interested in this, is that, um, instead of being a co-author, I could pay you to write or do, you know, certain aspects of it that might be fun for you?
Mikey: Um, no, I have my own book to write and so I wouldn't be able to take on that kind of labor while also doing my own book. Especially if it was, if it was like, I would write some and then not—— I just wouldn't feel right about it. And I also just wouldn't have time.
Lindo: Right. Yeah.
Mikey: Um, but I am happy that you asked me still and I'm sorry, it's not, it's not going to work out, but like I'm, I'm still happy and flattered that you asked me. Um, yeah. Are you, do you have anyone—— I know that you were talking to other people before. You mentioned that last time. Is there anybody else that you're sort of thinking might be an option? I hate to leave you like hanging...
Lindo: No, at this point I have no clue.
Mikey: Okay.
Lindo: And you know, my, um—— it might mean that I'm going to look for more... someone who's more behind the scenes to do some like ghost writing as opposed to, um, you know, a coauthor.
Mikey: Yeah. Um, yeah, cause it sorta just sounds like that's what—— that's the kind of working relationship that makes sense for what you're envisioning.
Lindo: Except that... well there are some, there are definitely some other advantages that I would get if I actually have a coauthor. You know, like, I don't think we need yet another book by a thin white person.
Mikey: Right.
Lindo: Um and it's not just that I need people behind the scenes, but you know, I need someone too to be kind of a public representation of this.
Mikey: ... Right.
Lindo: I mean, it would be easy enough to get writers who could give me that experience, um, but, um, but I also want someone to be kind of a public face that's saying that we need these kinds of collaborations, we need to bring marginalized voices to the forefront. Um, and yeah. And I mean, I find it really difficult sometimes to figure out like—— I want to step back, but it's not always necessary for me to step back in order for other people to come forward, you know? It feels like——
Mikey: Is that true?
Lindo: In my mind? Yeah, it is true.
Mikey: Can you speak on that more for me? Cause I, I disagree. On a fundamental level.
Lindo: Because I mean, I think a lot of it comes down to how you're going to define power and like power is not a limited resource that you either have, or you don't have, or that, you know, that there's a certain amount and it gets, has to get divided up. I think that we really need to change that whole concept, um, and, you know, look at how power can be better shared. And as much as I think that it's problematic that, um, we don't have more representation and marginalized voices and, you know, that's in large part, why we're such a fucked up country is because, you know, we've only had this one dominant viewpoint, this white supremacy thing.
But the point is not that white people need to just give up. It's that we can use our power to help, to help destabilize the power structure.
Mikey: Yeah. I mean, I think that, like, when you say that, I sort of think of like, um, like the sort of levels of allyship. Like the white traitor is like the person who, you know, acts against the best interests of their whiteness, right. But I do have—— Okay, I don't think that it's a stretch to say that... a space as small as this one——because truly like the amount of people working on this thing, on this kind of stuff in general is like... there's not that many—— When I think about the power dynamics within those spaces and how recognition and notoriety and accolades and fame and money, et cetera, are divvied up among us who are doing this work, I don't think that it's possible for someone, like you, especially who is very famous in this space, to not step back in order to make room for other people. Because power is distributed in a way that coincides with the identities that we hold, the privileged identities that we hold, and it's not that power is finite and should be spread more evenly; it's that power works in a way that sticks itself to people depending on their privileged identities... and your presence in the space does have the effect of a lot of that sticking to you.
Lindo: Yeah. Can I like, like, just give a little example here?
Mikey: Yeah.
Lindo: I wonder if we're going to have really different ideas about this.
Mikey: Yeah, go ahead.
Lindo: So I get asked to speak a lot at conferences and, um, you know, I think that it shouldn't just be my voice, that, you know, we need other people doing it. And so sometimes what I'll do is I'll recommend that there are better people that they can learn from.
Mikey: Right. Like a referral.
Lindo: Yeah. Um, but the problem is that, um, my name gets people to conferences and if they have somebody who isn't already established as a name, then not so many people come and they're not happy with that, right? And so then I started to think about, 'so what are all things I can do?' And like, one thing that I was starting to do that I thought was like a great way to kind of use my power, but not abuse it, was that I would share the stage with other people. So I would let them use my name as a name draw and I would talk, but I would, you know, make sure that part of the time that they had allocated to me, somebody else comes up and speaks. And so therefore they get the exposure, et cetera. Now there's so many ways in which that's uncomfortable, right? It's really uncomfortable when people just bill me and not other speakers at a conference, right? Like when I'm given front billing... and yet. If I don't do it, they're just going to go for another person who has a name established already, you know? And so it becomes really, really hard. So I, so if I just give up my power, you know, or give up my role and say, 'no, you should hire this person,' it often doesn't happen.
Mikey: I think that——
Lindo: And other things that I've done is that oftentimes, like when I'm co-writing with people and, um, typically, um ——I make sure that they take a larger percentage of the money. Um, you know, and so like, that's another way that I can kind of work with it, you know? Like that's another way I can give up my power and still use my power.
Mikey: I think that there's like a dichotomy that you're describing here where it's like... if you don't do it, right, then they'll go to somebody else. So then what happens after they go to somebody else? What is the fear there?
Lindo: Well, it, well they're going to go to somebody else who is equally as privileged as me.
Mikey: Yeah but then how does going with you make it a better choice?
Lindo: Well, one is because, um, like I, I feel like, um... I have listened to marginalized people. And people have given me the right to kind of speak on some of these issues. Like, like a lot of fat people. Um. Like it's a lot of fat people that really adore my work and appreciate it. And a lot of———like so many times people have said to me if they said the exact same thing I did, you know, they would get completely trashed for it. But yet I can challenge the health paradigm in a way that people won't let them. And so people want me to be kind of using my credibility to be able to do some of this myth-busting and, you know, I have, I have to do that in a way of course that's really responsible, you know, and I, I try. Like I really, you know, I have people looking over everything I do to make sure that it's representative. But, you know, sometimes, you know... I think it's really hard to do this and I wish it were easier to just, if I could just say to somebody 'trust what this person says, they're amazing' and it would happen. Um. I would love that. And honestly, well, I am trying to get out of the public eye. I am trying to kind of fade out right now? And it's hard, you know. And I really want other people that I could kind of turn over the reigns to.
Mikey: You know, um... as a fat person, as a fat Black person, as a fat activist, I have to say that... I think it's often very strategic and effective for people with more social clout, you know, like, um, sort of like a membership in the in-group kind of thing, right? To use their positionality, to call out the things that fat people would get demonized for saying, and also, uh, you know, accused of being not as rigorous or unbiased or whatever, whatever, even though those concepts are fraught with hegemony and hierarchy.
But. That being said: there is never an instance in which a person who is marginalized wants someone else to speak on their behalf. They do it because they're held hostage. They don't have a choice. And so no one's actually given you permission to speak on their behalf. It's just sort of happened that way because you happen to be somebody in a privileged body who happens to line up with some of the values that we're trying to promote and espouse.
I don't think that your continued visibility is a positive thing in this space. I think that, you know, you yourself have acknowledged that you're trying to sort of back away and like hand over the reigns to somebody else and I just don't think it's your place. I think that it makes more sense for you to just step back and let other people filter in. I know that you're trying to use your privilege to sort of like get us started up, but if that privilege can't be detached from, you know, you being centered——either through you being the one billed, you being the one handling the contracts, you being the whatever——like that's not actually a revolutionary act. It's just you leveraging political and social clout off of being seen as the good thin person who's doing those things. And so like... I'm really happy that like you are thinking through your privilege and what you can do with it. I just think that you need to start thinking about it in a different way.
Lindo: So let me ask you then, like, to help me on this.
Mikey: Yeah.
Lindo: What, what do you think would be best for me to do the next time that NAAFA calls me and asks me to, you know, do a keynote?
Mikey: Say no.
Lindo: Okay. So. And you know, so NAAFA is——
Mikey: I know. I've been on the committee. I've been on a NAAFA committee. Yeah. [Note: Lindo was speaking over me to explain what NAAFA is... after I confirmed I know what NAAFA is.]
Lindo: Okay.
Mikey: I would say no.
Lindo: Okay. But I hear that, you know, and I find that like, I'm not really quite sure I understand how if a fat group feels like it's important to have me, that I should decide for them that I'm the wrong person.
Mikey: But what are the reasons that they think it's important? Because it's—— I'm telling you, Lindo, fat people aren't asking you to speak because that would be their first choice. It's because you have the most accumulated social capital in this space.
If fat people are asking you, it's because they think that is going to give them the most credibility. And I don't blame them for making that choice. But that doesn't justify you saying yes. That's just them trying to make the best of a shitty situation. And then you being the one who just happens to be like the privileged person that they can go to for that thing. Like, it's not necessarily because of you, because they specifically picked you, because they see you as a safe, thin person, a safe privileged person. It's just because... you published your book. And became the authority. And you are also the privileged person who seems to sympathize the most with their beliefs and with what they're trying to work towards. Again, they're being held hostage. We never give other people the license to speak for ourselves when we're in good situations. Like that's not a thing. So. I would always say no. And if NAAFA was very intent on having you, that's a 'them' problem to sort out, not a 'you' problem to be like, 'yeah, I'm going to go along with it.'
Because fat people don't always make the right decisions. Like we're being held hostage. We're doing the best we can.
Lindo: And my guess is that they would see that as a lack of support.
Mikey: I mean... considering who is in NAAFA... except for Tigris——
Lindo: I know NAAFA doesn't represent the...
Mikey: ——that wouldn't surprise me. [laughs] So yeah, I mean...
Lindo: Yeah. And you know also I've never taken money from NAAFA, you know, for the things I've done.
Mikey: Yeah. I mean.
Lindo: I find ways to kind of...
Mikey: I know you're doing the best you can. And that's even why I'm spending time sort of like talking through these things with you, because I usually don't. If I'm being totally like, this is not... these kinds of conversations are not things that I go out of my way to do. I think that it's particularly important that I give this feedback to you because I see that you are trying to do right. I guess... it's complicated, but I think, you know, the things I've said are where I stand. And I think that they're the general stance of people in the movement right now as it's growing and becoming something that is more expansive and representative of the fat experience on all different axes of identity. Um, yeah. And I'm happy that it's changing that way. And I hope that you do have the opportunity to step back and feel like things are in a good place, that things are in good hands. But I also know that it is a very common white tendency to feel like you need to be the one to steer it there... and that's not the case.
Mikey: Um, I have to hop off.
Lindo: Okay.
Mikey: But, uh, I'm sorry that things didn't work out.
Lindo: Yeah. Well, thanks for, for offering up what you did.
Mikey: Yeah. All right. I'll see you.
Lindo: Alright, take care.
[We logged off.]
______________________
I think I did a pretty good job of holding it together during that conversation, but the reality is that once the disorienting feeling of being in the Twilight Zone faded away, all I had left was anger. Because the facts of the matter are:
Lindo was disingenuous about the project having space for my ideas. They proposed the HAES rewrite as something that necessitated a major rework of HAES and my specific critical lens when they were really just looking for a fat Black person that they could use as a show pony to point at as an example of both how charitable they are with ~leveraging their privilege~ as well as use to write complex, nuanced discussions of fatness, Blackness, disability, and other axes of oppression that they could also take credit for. And when it became clear I was not willing to play the role they wanted to force me into, they pivoted to seeing if they could still purchase my expertise via a ghostwriting arrangement that meant they would take full credit for my work without having to meet my needs as a co-author.
This is on top of the fact that during this conversation, Lindo clearly articulated that they have no intention of stepping out of the spotlight or relinquishing their power over the fat people they claim to advocate for even when one of those fat people tells them very plainly that their continued hypervisibility is harmful.
______________________
Mikey: Yes. Yeah. Yeah.
Lindo: Um... but I think it's also important that like, we don't lose that kind of self-helpy thing that kind of speaks to people. Like, if you can think back about why the book influenced you, like what help drew you to it and made you think it was such a good book. Like that—— we have to make sure that that stays.
Mikey: Got it.
Lindo: It's gonna be—— I think it's always tricky to bring in higher-level arguments and
Mikey: Yes. [laughs]
Lindo: And more nuance, right? Because that's a really important thing. Because if you don't have nuance, it's just the white default.
Mikey: Yeah. Yeah.
Lindo: Or whatever the—— the dominant default, right? So it's going to be really tricky to kind of keep this as a really accessible book... but that's really important, I think, to its success.
Mikey: Absolutely. Yeah. Um, and just for like applicability sake, we want people to be able to understand it and relate to it. And that's, that's part of the reason of like, why we're talking about our own stories in it. Um, okay, great. Yeah, no, this is great. Um...
Lindo: Okay. So yeah, I wouldn't be surprised that if we were to get into a more in-depth conversation about how the book's going to change and what we need to do, that it would be an awesome conversation. Like we would both have a lot to bring to it and we would both be on the same page. Like, I feel like that's going to be kind of an exciting thing, is that kind of collaboration.
Mikey: Yeah!
Lindo: Right? And I'm not worried about it happening, right? That just feels like it's gonna work. We're gonna do this. Um, the, so—— and after this, I can send to you some of the notes that I've developed of what are the basics I've been thinking about and that's a document that we can then build out together, um, so that we know what we're going. Is it okay. Now if we can kind of switch a little bit to what our roles would be?
Mikey: Yeah! Let's do it.
Lindo: Okay. Um, so, you know, given that it's my book and perceived as my book and you know, like my name sells the book in a lot of ways. You know, that's unfortunate, but like this isn't like a collaboration of people doing equal things. Um... yeah. Like, um, I—— in my mind——
Mikey: Okay.
Lindo: Um, and like... so I still want to maintain some of that control. Um, because I'm only writing this book if, um, the stuff that I don't like to do is stuff that, um, someone else takes on. Because otherwise it'll just be too painful for me.
Mikey: I see.
Lindo: And I'll tell you what that is in a moment. And I have a feeling that it's stuff that you like doing anyway, you know, that we might be compatible that way. But the main reason why I'm really looking to like, uh, I want to call this other person a coauthor, is because I really want to make sure that you have investment in this book and that, you know, you aren't like—— you would only put your name on something that you are a hundred percent behind.
Mikey: Yeah.
Lindo: So I don't want you creating things for me. I want to make sure that this book represents you as well as me.
Mikey: Mhm. Yeah.
Lindo: But, but again, you know, like there's going to be a lot of things where we're just using my old writing because a lot of it is still usable.
Mikey: ...Okay. Yeah. Um. So here's my thoughts about this because... when you say that you want to sort of keep... like you want to sort of guide, you want to have the ability to still guide the project, like the book in a way that like makes sense to you. Like what does that mean?
Lindo: I should——um, yeah. And like, I should explain that because I don't think by itself it's totally true.
Mikey: Yeah, okay.
Lindo: Did you want to ask a question before I?
Mikey: No, no, no, no, go ahead. Go ahead. Yeah.
Lindo: So, um. Well, I feel like because this is my book and because, you know, I followed it for so long and I've been speaking about it, I've been seen as the authority on Health at Every Size. Like I have a lot of the expertise to kind of, to know what works and what didn't work and where it should head. Um, so and again, I think that there's still a lot that I want to be able to keep in this book. This is not a new book. This is a revision of an old book, which is important because if we did it as a new book, we would, we wouldn't be able to capture all of the people who are already devotees of the first book.
Mikey: Okay. So here's my, here's where my hesitation is coming from. Um, as we've spoken about, like, there is a lot about the HAES paradigm that needs to be revised. Like a lot. Um, and I just don't see... [pauses] Well, maybe...
Lindo: I can just interject here to——
Mikey: Yeah, go ahead.
Lindo: Um, that I agree with you there. Um, and um, I feel like my coauthor and I really did that in Body Respect. That a lot of the things that I saw as problematic or changed in that book, so I feel like if you want to see where I'm coming from——
Mikey: I do, I do.
Lindo: Like that book would really help a lot. Um, and yeah, but it also makes it. Because, because you have some hesitations or some fear that there's just too much, a lot that needs to be changed, then I think we'll need to, like early on, really see if we're identifying the same things.
Mikey: Yeah. Um, yeah, for sure. I think it'll be helpful for me to review Body Respect and sort of see how it's different from what I remember from the original book. Or maybe just like, I'll just do a direct comparison of the two and I'll reread both. I'll reread the first one and read the second one. Um, there's another piece of this where like, I also just... with this specific work, i, what you're describing in terms of like, control has sort of like the implication that this is like a hierarchical working relationship and that I'm not okay with.
As far as I'm concerned, like I have very specialized expertise that HAES needs, that the book that is the rewrite will need. And if I'm remembering the original HAES book correctly, the version, the rewrite version in my head that I would be okay putting my name on is drastically different.
Lindo: Okay, then maybe this isn't gonna work out.
Mikey: Yeah. I don't think this.
Lindo: There's no way I'm writing a new book.
Mikey: Yeah. I think that, um, I am both not okay with a hierarchical working relationship and I'm also like... It doesn't make sense to me to have a hierarchical working relationship when essentially HAES should be more accommodating of fat liberation politics. And I am the fat liberationist. And I'm also the person with lived experience of fatness. And so I don't exactly see how it is justified for me to follow your lead on the next chapter of HAES, when really, like, my views are the ones that should be accommodated in the new version of HAES. And like, I get what you're saying, that this is not a new book. This is a rewrite that you want to make sure is widely accessible, widely reaching and like retains the magic of the original one. But I think that if that's what you're aiming to do, then I really just might not be the right co-writer for you.
Lindo: Okay. Um, well I think that the word 'hierarchical' is awkward.
Mikey: Yeah.
Lindo: Um, but I also think that regardless of what we say and try to do, like, there's this power dynamic that's built in already, um, because you know, it was my book.
Mikey: Right but you are now asking me to co-write the rewrite for you. If both of our names are going on it, it's then our book. [laughs] Do you understand what I'm saying? I have a lot of respect for the work you did with the original one and it was extremely transformative at the time, but—— and I also know that there is a baked in power dynamic between the two of us, but it's not because you wrote the original book. It's because you are a thin person who is trying to do transformative work in the space. But you are thin and I am fat and that is the power dynamic. I'm also Black and you are not. That is the power dynamic, not the fact that you wrote the original book. And I think that——
Lindo: Part of, part of the reason why I'm so drawn to you doing this is because I recognize that as a weakness of the book. You know, I was a very privileged person writing this book and I see all, I see so many ways in which my privilege caused me to write a book that was for other privileged people.
Mikey: Mhm.
Lindo: And so I thought it was really important when bringing in someone else, that they have very different identities than I do. And can be seeing things that I might not see and, you know, and bring that experience to it. So for example, like the self-acceptance chapter is going to look really different when you add in how it's a different experience for people who are in fatter bodies.
Mikey: I mean, it would have to be radically different, yeah. I mean, my views on self-acceptance are very much like akin to, I don't know if you've read Da'Shaun's book, but——
Lindo: I read Da'Shaun's book. Yeah.
Mikey: Yeah. I am very much of the opinion that like... I don't know if I would base an entire chapter on self-acceptance. If anything, I would write a whole chapter on the fallacy of self-acceptance. But, um... that's the kind of thing I'm talking about. Where it's like, we're drawing on your book because it's the original and this is the rewrite, but if I have to turn everything inside out, I don't exactly see how that's the same book.
Lindo: Okay, then it might be that we're not going be able to do this.
Mikey: I think, I think it's just not going to work out.
Lindo: Another possibility if you'd be interested in this, is that, um, instead of being a co-author, I could pay you to write or do, you know, certain aspects of it that might be fun for you?
Mikey: Um, no, I have my own book to write and so I wouldn't be able to take on that kind of labor while also doing my own book. Especially if it was, if it was like, I would write some and then not—— I just wouldn't feel right about it. And I also just wouldn't have time.
Lindo: Right. Yeah.
Mikey: Um, but I am happy that you asked me still and I'm sorry, it's not, it's not going to work out, but like I'm, I'm still happy and flattered that you asked me. Um, yeah. Are you, do you have anyone—— I know that you were talking to other people before. You mentioned that last time. Is there anybody else that you're sort of thinking might be an option? I hate to leave you like hanging...
Lindo: No, at this point I have no clue.
Mikey: Okay.
Lindo: And you know, my, um—— it might mean that I'm going to look for more... someone who's more behind the scenes to do some like ghost writing as opposed to, um, you know, a coauthor.
Mikey: Yeah. Um, yeah, cause it sorta just sounds like that's what—— that's the kind of working relationship that makes sense for what you're envisioning.
Lindo: Except that... well there are some, there are definitely some other advantages that I would get if I actually have a coauthor. You know, like, I don't think we need yet another book by a thin white person.
Mikey: Right.
Lindo: Um and it's not just that I need people behind the scenes, but you know, I need someone too to be kind of a public representation of this.
Mikey: ... Right.
Lindo: I mean, it would be easy enough to get writers who could give me that experience, um, but, um, but I also want someone to be kind of a public face that's saying that we need these kinds of collaborations, we need to bring marginalized voices to the forefront. Um, and yeah. And I mean, I find it really difficult sometimes to figure out like—— I want to step back, but it's not always necessary for me to step back in order for other people to come forward, you know? It feels like——
Mikey: Is that true?
Lindo: In my mind? Yeah, it is true.
Mikey: Can you speak on that more for me? Cause I, I disagree. On a fundamental level.
Lindo: Because I mean, I think a lot of it comes down to how you're going to define power and like power is not a limited resource that you either have, or you don't have, or that, you know, that there's a certain amount and it gets, has to get divided up. I think that we really need to change that whole concept, um, and, you know, look at how power can be better shared. And as much as I think that it's problematic that, um, we don't have more representation and marginalized voices and, you know, that's in large part, why we're such a fucked up country is because, you know, we've only had this one dominant viewpoint, this white supremacy thing.
But the point is not that white people need to just give up. It's that we can use our power to help, to help destabilize the power structure.
Mikey: Yeah. I mean, I think that, like, when you say that, I sort of think of like, um, like the sort of levels of allyship. Like the white traitor is like the person who, you know, acts against the best interests of their whiteness, right. But I do have—— Okay, I don't think that it's a stretch to say that... a space as small as this one——because truly like the amount of people working on this thing, on this kind of stuff in general is like... there's not that many—— When I think about the power dynamics within those spaces and how recognition and notoriety and accolades and fame and money, et cetera, are divvied up among us who are doing this work, I don't think that it's possible for someone, like you, especially who is very famous in this space, to not step back in order to make room for other people. Because power is distributed in a way that coincides with the identities that we hold, the privileged identities that we hold, and it's not that power is finite and should be spread more evenly; it's that power works in a way that sticks itself to people depending on their privileged identities... and your presence in the space does have the effect of a lot of that sticking to you.
Lindo: Yeah. Can I like, like, just give a little example here?
Mikey: Yeah.
Lindo: I wonder if we're going to have really different ideas about this.
Mikey: Yeah, go ahead.
Lindo: So I get asked to speak a lot at conferences and, um, you know, I think that it shouldn't just be my voice, that, you know, we need other people doing it. And so sometimes what I'll do is I'll recommend that there are better people that they can learn from.
Mikey: Right. Like a referral.
Lindo: Yeah. Um, but the problem is that, um, my name gets people to conferences and if they have somebody who isn't already established as a name, then not so many people come and they're not happy with that, right? And so then I started to think about, 'so what are all things I can do?' And like, one thing that I was starting to do that I thought was like a great way to kind of use my power, but not abuse it, was that I would share the stage with other people. So I would let them use my name as a name draw and I would talk, but I would, you know, make sure that part of the time that they had allocated to me, somebody else comes up and speaks. And so therefore they get the exposure, et cetera. Now there's so many ways in which that's uncomfortable, right? It's really uncomfortable when people just bill me and not other speakers at a conference, right? Like when I'm given front billing... and yet. If I don't do it, they're just going to go for another person who has a name established already, you know? And so it becomes really, really hard. So I, so if I just give up my power, you know, or give up my role and say, 'no, you should hire this person,' it often doesn't happen.
Mikey: I think that——
Lindo: And other things that I've done is that oftentimes, like when I'm co-writing with people and, um, typically, um ——I make sure that they take a larger percentage of the money. Um, you know, and so like, that's another way that I can kind of work with it, you know? Like that's another way I can give up my power and still use my power.
Mikey: I think that there's like a dichotomy that you're describing here where it's like... if you don't do it, right, then they'll go to somebody else. So then what happens after they go to somebody else? What is the fear there?
Lindo: Well, it, well they're going to go to somebody else who is equally as privileged as me.
Mikey: Yeah but then how does going with you make it a better choice?
Lindo: Well, one is because, um, like I, I feel like, um... I have listened to marginalized people. And people have given me the right to kind of speak on some of these issues. Like, like a lot of fat people. Um. Like it's a lot of fat people that really adore my work and appreciate it. And a lot of———like so many times people have said to me if they said the exact same thing I did, you know, they would get completely trashed for it. But yet I can challenge the health paradigm in a way that people won't let them. And so people want me to be kind of using my credibility to be able to do some of this myth-busting and, you know, I have, I have to do that in a way of course that's really responsible, you know, and I, I try. Like I really, you know, I have people looking over everything I do to make sure that it's representative. But, you know, sometimes, you know... I think it's really hard to do this and I wish it were easier to just, if I could just say to somebody 'trust what this person says, they're amazing' and it would happen. Um. I would love that. And honestly, well, I am trying to get out of the public eye. I am trying to kind of fade out right now? And it's hard, you know. And I really want other people that I could kind of turn over the reigns to.
Mikey: You know, um... as a fat person, as a fat Black person, as a fat activist, I have to say that... I think it's often very strategic and effective for people with more social clout, you know, like, um, sort of like a membership in the in-group kind of thing, right? To use their positionality, to call out the things that fat people would get demonized for saying, and also, uh, you know, accused of being not as rigorous or unbiased or whatever, whatever, even though those concepts are fraught with hegemony and hierarchy.
But. That being said: there is never an instance in which a person who is marginalized wants someone else to speak on their behalf. They do it because they're held hostage. They don't have a choice. And so no one's actually given you permission to speak on their behalf. It's just sort of happened that way because you happen to be somebody in a privileged body who happens to line up with some of the values that we're trying to promote and espouse.
I don't think that your continued visibility is a positive thing in this space. I think that, you know, you yourself have acknowledged that you're trying to sort of back away and like hand over the reigns to somebody else and I just don't think it's your place. I think that it makes more sense for you to just step back and let other people filter in. I know that you're trying to use your privilege to sort of like get us started up, but if that privilege can't be detached from, you know, you being centered——either through you being the one billed, you being the one handling the contracts, you being the whatever——like that's not actually a revolutionary act. It's just you leveraging political and social clout off of being seen as the good thin person who's doing those things. And so like... I'm really happy that like you are thinking through your privilege and what you can do with it. I just think that you need to start thinking about it in a different way.
Lindo: So let me ask you then, like, to help me on this.
Mikey: Yeah.
Lindo: What, what do you think would be best for me to do the next time that NAAFA calls me and asks me to, you know, do a keynote?
Mikey: Say no.
Lindo: Okay. So. And you know, so NAAFA is——
Mikey: I know. I've been on the committee. I've been on a NAAFA committee. Yeah. [Note: Lindo was speaking over me to explain what NAAFA is... after I confirmed I know what NAAFA is.]
Lindo: Okay.
Mikey: I would say no.
Lindo: Okay. But I hear that, you know, and I find that like, I'm not really quite sure I understand how if a fat group feels like it's important to have me, that I should decide for them that I'm the wrong person.
Mikey: But what are the reasons that they think it's important? Because it's—— I'm telling you, Lindo, fat people aren't asking you to speak because that would be their first choice. It's because you have the most accumulated social capital in this space.
If fat people are asking you, it's because they think that is going to give them the most credibility. And I don't blame them for making that choice. But that doesn't justify you saying yes. That's just them trying to make the best of a shitty situation. And then you being the one who just happens to be like the privileged person that they can go to for that thing. Like, it's not necessarily because of you, because they specifically picked you, because they see you as a safe, thin person, a safe privileged person. It's just because... you published your book. And became the authority. And you are also the privileged person who seems to sympathize the most with their beliefs and with what they're trying to work towards. Again, they're being held hostage. We never give other people the license to speak for ourselves when we're in good situations. Like that's not a thing. So. I would always say no. And if NAAFA was very intent on having you, that's a 'them' problem to sort out, not a 'you' problem to be like, 'yeah, I'm going to go along with it.'
Because fat people don't always make the right decisions. Like we're being held hostage. We're doing the best we can.
Lindo: And my guess is that they would see that as a lack of support.
Mikey: I mean... considering who is in NAAFA... except for Tigris——
Lindo: I know NAAFA doesn't represent the...
Mikey: ——that wouldn't surprise me. [laughs] So yeah, I mean...
Lindo: Yeah. And you know also I've never taken money from NAAFA, you know, for the things I've done.
Mikey: Yeah. I mean.
Lindo: I find ways to kind of...
Mikey: I know you're doing the best you can. And that's even why I'm spending time sort of like talking through these things with you, because I usually don't. If I'm being totally like, this is not... these kinds of conversations are not things that I go out of my way to do. I think that it's particularly important that I give this feedback to you because I see that you are trying to do right. I guess... it's complicated, but I think, you know, the things I've said are where I stand. And I think that they're the general stance of people in the movement right now as it's growing and becoming something that is more expansive and representative of the fat experience on all different axes of identity. Um, yeah. And I'm happy that it's changing that way. And I hope that you do have the opportunity to step back and feel like things are in a good place, that things are in good hands. But I also know that it is a very common white tendency to feel like you need to be the one to steer it there... and that's not the case.
Mikey: Um, I have to hop off.
Lindo: Okay.
Mikey: But, uh, I'm sorry that things didn't work out.
Lindo: Yeah. Well, thanks for, for offering up what you did.
Mikey: Yeah. All right. I'll see you.
Lindo: Alright, take care.
[We logged off.]
______________________
I think I did a pretty good job of holding it together during that conversation, but the reality is that once the disorienting feeling of being in the Twilight Zone faded away, all I had left was anger. Because the facts of the matter are:
Lindo was disingenuous about the project having space for my ideas. They proposed the HAES rewrite as something that necessitated a major rework of HAES and my specific critical lens when they were really just looking for a fat Black person that they could use as a show pony to point at as an example of both how charitable they are with ~leveraging their privilege~ as well as use to write complex, nuanced discussions of fatness, Blackness, disability, and other axes of oppression that they could also take credit for. And when it became clear I was not willing to play the role they wanted to force me into, they pivoted to seeing if they could still purchase my expertise via a ghostwriting arrangement that meant they would take full credit for my work without having to meet my needs as a co-author.
This is on top of the fact that during this conversation, Lindo clearly articulated that they have no intention of stepping out of the spotlight or relinquishing their power over the fat people they claim to advocate for even when one of those fat people tells them very plainly that their continued hypervisibility is harmful.
______________________
I was looking forward to never speaking to Lindo again after that meeting, which left me with all kinds of anger and disgust to sort out with the help of some wonderful friends and colleagues. But my interaction with Lindo was, unfortunately, not over.
The day after our meeting, they sent me the following email:
Hi Mikey,
Been thoughtful about our conversation. I think our differences in thinking about the role of white people in the SJ movement really speak to a split in the SJ community around “identity politics” and are much more common than just us. (I’m not talking about a split across racial lines as there are spokespeople of all races on both sides of a divide.)
I’m thinking particularly about your belief that white people need to step back for Black people to move forward. While I didn’t use this language in our call, I’m concerned that concept is a continuation of supremacy, just with different people in power, and not liberatory. In our talk, I think I described it as scarcity-based thinking which incorrectly assumes that power is a finite quality. I believe that our movement is more effective if we use people’s power (responsibly), rather than asking some to give it up. (That framing isn’t original; I first heard it from Loretta Ross in a training workshop.)
I’m still thinking about the specific example we talked about: what’s the most effective thing I can do when asked to keynote a conference. If my walking away had the outcome of them inviting a person of color, I’d be in support, and certainly I always raise that issue. But, sadly, the most common outcome is that they continue to look for someone with name recognition.
(And unfortunately I get why: it draws people to a conference.) My ability to make change seems much more clear when instead I’ve leveraged my privilege, like raising it as an issue from the podium, sharing the space so I can introduce lesser known voices (and many other things I haven’t mentioned, like donating a portion of my earnings to racial justice causes).
As I think about it now, I wonder too if a perspective that there is not a “right” view on this topic might be helpful. I can understand, for example, that some people could employ your strategy of walking away and then use the experience and make it more public, getting attention to racial justice issues. I think there are advantages to having people advocating in different ways, able to use their unique skills and access. And I think its always valuable to view things with more openness to complexity.
This reminds me of when I attended a think tank on weight stigma at the Rudd Center, an offensive fatphobic organization that’s the loudest voice on weight stigma in the mainstream. I was invited because I had mainstream credibility and they hadn’t really done their research on who I was. Marilyn Wann and I found a creative way to get them to be more thoughtful about the damage they were doing. She arranged for someone to crash the meeting in a whale costume, with a message suggesting they needed fat representation at the meeting. They could hate her, but she got their attention. And then I was able to follow up, prodding them to be thoughtful about why she might have been motivated to do it. It took two of us advocating in very different ways to have impact. Alone, neither would have been heard.
This is pretty much stream of consciousness writing, but I think it just brought me to knowing what to do with it: I’m thinking this might be a fascinating topic for us to write about collaboratively. It would be interesting if we could use dialogue as a way to express both (or more) positions. And hey, if I changed my view in the process, that would be awesome; I’m sure there’s stuff I’m not getting here.
I think it would make for a really interesting and important article to name this. Many people are grappling with it.
Is that something you want to think about?
I walked away from the conversation feeling pretty shitty, and disillusioned that we couldn’t find a way to better connect. I sensed your disillusion too; it felt like I disappointed you. Rather than walking away, I wonder if it might be helpful and interesting to dive into the controversy, maybe there’s some learning to be had. And maybe it can help the shitty feeling dissipate. Though I am concerned it could backfire too.
On another note, I’d appreciate confidentiality about our discussion. I – and the publisher – aren’t ready for word to get out that a revision is being considered nor am I interested in the ideas that I am exploring getting out before I actually commit to them.
Thanks. I got a lot out of our talk.
Hope you’re feeling ok.
Lindo
_____________________
The day after our meeting, they sent me the following email:
Hi Mikey,
Been thoughtful about our conversation. I think our differences in thinking about the role of white people in the SJ movement really speak to a split in the SJ community around “identity politics” and are much more common than just us. (I’m not talking about a split across racial lines as there are spokespeople of all races on both sides of a divide.)
I’m thinking particularly about your belief that white people need to step back for Black people to move forward. While I didn’t use this language in our call, I’m concerned that concept is a continuation of supremacy, just with different people in power, and not liberatory. In our talk, I think I described it as scarcity-based thinking which incorrectly assumes that power is a finite quality. I believe that our movement is more effective if we use people’s power (responsibly), rather than asking some to give it up. (That framing isn’t original; I first heard it from Loretta Ross in a training workshop.)
I’m still thinking about the specific example we talked about: what’s the most effective thing I can do when asked to keynote a conference. If my walking away had the outcome of them inviting a person of color, I’d be in support, and certainly I always raise that issue. But, sadly, the most common outcome is that they continue to look for someone with name recognition.
(And unfortunately I get why: it draws people to a conference.) My ability to make change seems much more clear when instead I’ve leveraged my privilege, like raising it as an issue from the podium, sharing the space so I can introduce lesser known voices (and many other things I haven’t mentioned, like donating a portion of my earnings to racial justice causes).
As I think about it now, I wonder too if a perspective that there is not a “right” view on this topic might be helpful. I can understand, for example, that some people could employ your strategy of walking away and then use the experience and make it more public, getting attention to racial justice issues. I think there are advantages to having people advocating in different ways, able to use their unique skills and access. And I think its always valuable to view things with more openness to complexity.
This reminds me of when I attended a think tank on weight stigma at the Rudd Center, an offensive fatphobic organization that’s the loudest voice on weight stigma in the mainstream. I was invited because I had mainstream credibility and they hadn’t really done their research on who I was. Marilyn Wann and I found a creative way to get them to be more thoughtful about the damage they were doing. She arranged for someone to crash the meeting in a whale costume, with a message suggesting they needed fat representation at the meeting. They could hate her, but she got their attention. And then I was able to follow up, prodding them to be thoughtful about why she might have been motivated to do it. It took two of us advocating in very different ways to have impact. Alone, neither would have been heard.
This is pretty much stream of consciousness writing, but I think it just brought me to knowing what to do with it: I’m thinking this might be a fascinating topic for us to write about collaboratively. It would be interesting if we could use dialogue as a way to express both (or more) positions. And hey, if I changed my view in the process, that would be awesome; I’m sure there’s stuff I’m not getting here.
I think it would make for a really interesting and important article to name this. Many people are grappling with it.
Is that something you want to think about?
I walked away from the conversation feeling pretty shitty, and disillusioned that we couldn’t find a way to better connect. I sensed your disillusion too; it felt like I disappointed you. Rather than walking away, I wonder if it might be helpful and interesting to dive into the controversy, maybe there’s some learning to be had. And maybe it can help the shitty feeling dissipate. Though I am concerned it could backfire too.
On another note, I’d appreciate confidentiality about our discussion. I – and the publisher – aren’t ready for word to get out that a revision is being considered nor am I interested in the ideas that I am exploring getting out before I actually commit to them.
Thanks. I got a lot out of our talk.
Hope you’re feeling ok.
Lindo
_____________________
I do not have the bandwidth to unpack the incredibly misinformed views Lindo seems to have about the conversation we had, as well as, more generally, about privilege, race, activism, and more as they appear in the above email. I will let you do that in your spare time. What I do want to call attention to is the portion towards the bottom where they get to the actual point of the email: their poor attempt to get me to work with them.
For convenience, that's this part:
Something that a friend reminded me of as we discussed this situation is that Lindo likely did not expect I would decline to work with them and that they, in fact, thought I would jump at the chance. This is both because, from a certain vantage point, it’s a good professional opportunity, as well as the fact that they thought I was vulnerable enough that I wouldn't mind whatever "control" they attempted to exert over me and my work. In fact, they probably thought I would be grateful for it. But they made a mistake. Because I'm well aware of the fact that the sun is setting on Lindo's dominance over this space. I am as aware of it as Lindo is, if not more.
This is all to say that when this email came in, I skimmed for the part where they would attempt to rope me into another collaboration. I knew they would ask. But I did not anticipate that they would attempt to make a writing project out of our frustrating conversation which, to be clear, was not enjoyable or fruitful or positive for me. It is shitty to be commodified this transparently. It is shitty to know Lindo has made a career off fat people's oppression and support while thinking this little of fat people. And I would never, in a million fucking years, allow someone to meta-commodify my feelings for a cringe essay on allyship.
__________________
For convenience, that's this part:
Something that a friend reminded me of as we discussed this situation is that Lindo likely did not expect I would decline to work with them and that they, in fact, thought I would jump at the chance. This is both because, from a certain vantage point, it’s a good professional opportunity, as well as the fact that they thought I was vulnerable enough that I wouldn't mind whatever "control" they attempted to exert over me and my work. In fact, they probably thought I would be grateful for it. But they made a mistake. Because I'm well aware of the fact that the sun is setting on Lindo's dominance over this space. I am as aware of it as Lindo is, if not more.
This is all to say that when this email came in, I skimmed for the part where they would attempt to rope me into another collaboration. I knew they would ask. But I did not anticipate that they would attempt to make a writing project out of our frustrating conversation which, to be clear, was not enjoyable or fruitful or positive for me. It is shitty to be commodified this transparently. It is shitty to know Lindo has made a career off fat people's oppression and support while thinking this little of fat people. And I would never, in a million fucking years, allow someone to meta-commodify my feelings for a cringe essay on allyship.
__________________
The last part of this saga came a few short days after this email. It is actually what really pushed me to reconsider writing about these events as a way to process them.
Lindo sent me this email on 1/17:
Hi Mikey,
NAAFA is hosting an Ally Week. This is an excerpt from their newsletter:
“Our 2022 Ally Week explores the meaning of allyship in fat community -- how others show up for us and how we show up for others. We know thin people have a lot to learn about how to be allies to fat folx; we also know that fat folx with other privilege have a lot to learn about how to center marginalized people in fat community and how to show up as allies for other oppressed groups.”
I’ll forward to you the full newsletter.
As part of the event, they would like to host a discussion that helps people see differing views on allyship, and want to specifically find people who have differing opinions, one an “ally” (I’m not super-comfortable with that term) and the other fat. NAAFA chair Tigress Osborn would moderate it, posing questions. Without revealing your name, I told Tigress that I recently came up against this with a fat activist and could ask if they’d be open to participating.
Want to do it? The deadline is tight. NAAFA would at least like to know if you’d be interested by end of day on Wednesday. You don’t need a firm commitment by that date, just openness and willing to talk details with Tigress. It’s paid. Little has been decided, so you could help define what it would look like, including things like a description of the event, and deciding whether its best for us to give Tigress suggested questions in advance or just be spontaneous.
If you are interested, could you send an email to me by Wed aft and I’ll let Tigress know. Or, you could just contact her directly ( chair@naafa.org ), but it would still be helpful to let me know so I can help Tigress find someone else.
I think it would be a lot of fun to do this together.
Lindo
After re-reading this email for this post, the rage came flooding back all at once. I never responded to any of Lindo's emails or messages after our meeting. It is unlikely that I ever will. The reason for that is simple: how does one explain to a grown ass adult that continuing to propose collaborations to no response is, in fact, an answer? How do you explain to someone intent on making a spectacle of their self-awareness that they, in fact, have their head in their ass? And, most relevantly, how do you explain these very basic things to someone that doesn't actually care that they are clearly ignoring a very clear boundary because they are far more concerned with turning a no into a yes? How do you tell someone who doesn't recognize your humanity to treat you with basic dignity and respect?
You can't. Even if you somehow strung together the most beautifully convincing explanation in the world, it can't be heard by someone who isn't listening, by someone who responds to the fact that their presence is harmful with 'I don't see why I have to step back.'
In an effort to wrap this up neatly, I want to share the email I sent Tigress (chair of NAAFA) after learning that Lindo approached her with our nonexistent collaboration:
Hey Tigress,
Hope you’re finding some way to relax and restore amid all this chaos. I’m writing because of an incredibly awkward situation that has come to (minorly) involve you and NAAFA.
According to Lindo Bacon in the forwarded email I’ve included, they recently spoke to you regarding NAAFA’s 2022 Ally Week programming and mentioned that they would be gauging the interest of a fat activist re: participating in a joint speaking engagement with them about allyship and fat lib. The fat activist they were referring to is me. However, I have no interest in working with Lindo and, given my recent interactions with them, I don’t think they are an individual that NAAFA should lend any platform to.
Lindo contacted you regarding Ally Week because they are trying to find a convincing way to strong-arm me into working with them. We were recently in discussion about a large “collaborative” writing opportunity and I bowed out because it became clear they were really only interested in tokenizing me and using my identities to maintain their legitimacy in a moment when many fat activists are becoming more critical of their work/HAES and the space/power they insist on maintaining at our expense. The conversation that followed me saying no to collaborating with them was ridiculous on multiple levels; they made it very clear that they have no intent on becoming less visible or stepping back from the spotlight and expressed extremely paternalistic and “white savior”-type views in relation to their place in the movement even when I took the time to explain that they were overstepping.
Funnily enough, NAAFA actually came up in this conversation. Lindo posed the following hypothetical to me as a kind of justification for why they continue to be visible: “what if NAAFA approaches me about giving a keynote speech for something?” After they assumed that I did not know what NAAFA was (and my correction of that assumption), I informed Lindo that 1) the correct course of action would be to decline the invitation in favor of someone else, 2) the choices fat people/orgs make to increase their visibility and legitimacy are made while they are held hostage by fatphobia and 3) this is not a justification for their continued hypervisibility in our space. They are now attempting to take my valid critiques of them and posit them as “differing views on allyship” so that they can avoid critical introspection and accountability as well as force a collaboration with me. This is actually the second joint project they have “proposed” since I walked away from our collaboration discussion last Wednesday and the third email they have sent me since then despite my consistent non-response. I’d be happy to get into the details of the situation over Zoom sometime, but for now my point is that Lindo doesn’t want to take my “no” for an answer and approached you with a hypothetical collaboration that I am not a willing (hypothetical or not) participant in.
I am planning to talk about my frustrating interaction with Lindo publicly at a later time when I’ve had more than a week to digest it. But I just wanted to give you a heads up about what’s going on.
I’m sorry that you are now burdened with the knowledge of this awkward conflict. Sending lots of hugs.
In fat solidarity,
Mikey
Lindo sent me this email on 1/17:
Hi Mikey,
NAAFA is hosting an Ally Week. This is an excerpt from their newsletter:
“Our 2022 Ally Week explores the meaning of allyship in fat community -- how others show up for us and how we show up for others. We know thin people have a lot to learn about how to be allies to fat folx; we also know that fat folx with other privilege have a lot to learn about how to center marginalized people in fat community and how to show up as allies for other oppressed groups.”
I’ll forward to you the full newsletter.
As part of the event, they would like to host a discussion that helps people see differing views on allyship, and want to specifically find people who have differing opinions, one an “ally” (I’m not super-comfortable with that term) and the other fat. NAAFA chair Tigress Osborn would moderate it, posing questions. Without revealing your name, I told Tigress that I recently came up against this with a fat activist and could ask if they’d be open to participating.
Want to do it? The deadline is tight. NAAFA would at least like to know if you’d be interested by end of day on Wednesday. You don’t need a firm commitment by that date, just openness and willing to talk details with Tigress. It’s paid. Little has been decided, so you could help define what it would look like, including things like a description of the event, and deciding whether its best for us to give Tigress suggested questions in advance or just be spontaneous.
If you are interested, could you send an email to me by Wed aft and I’ll let Tigress know. Or, you could just contact her directly ( chair@naafa.org ), but it would still be helpful to let me know so I can help Tigress find someone else.
I think it would be a lot of fun to do this together.
Lindo
After re-reading this email for this post, the rage came flooding back all at once. I never responded to any of Lindo's emails or messages after our meeting. It is unlikely that I ever will. The reason for that is simple: how does one explain to a grown ass adult that continuing to propose collaborations to no response is, in fact, an answer? How do you explain to someone intent on making a spectacle of their self-awareness that they, in fact, have their head in their ass? And, most relevantly, how do you explain these very basic things to someone that doesn't actually care that they are clearly ignoring a very clear boundary because they are far more concerned with turning a no into a yes? How do you tell someone who doesn't recognize your humanity to treat you with basic dignity and respect?
You can't. Even if you somehow strung together the most beautifully convincing explanation in the world, it can't be heard by someone who isn't listening, by someone who responds to the fact that their presence is harmful with 'I don't see why I have to step back.'
In an effort to wrap this up neatly, I want to share the email I sent Tigress (chair of NAAFA) after learning that Lindo approached her with our nonexistent collaboration:
Hey Tigress,
Hope you’re finding some way to relax and restore amid all this chaos. I’m writing because of an incredibly awkward situation that has come to (minorly) involve you and NAAFA.
According to Lindo Bacon in the forwarded email I’ve included, they recently spoke to you regarding NAAFA’s 2022 Ally Week programming and mentioned that they would be gauging the interest of a fat activist re: participating in a joint speaking engagement with them about allyship and fat lib. The fat activist they were referring to is me. However, I have no interest in working with Lindo and, given my recent interactions with them, I don’t think they are an individual that NAAFA should lend any platform to.
Lindo contacted you regarding Ally Week because they are trying to find a convincing way to strong-arm me into working with them. We were recently in discussion about a large “collaborative” writing opportunity and I bowed out because it became clear they were really only interested in tokenizing me and using my identities to maintain their legitimacy in a moment when many fat activists are becoming more critical of their work/HAES and the space/power they insist on maintaining at our expense. The conversation that followed me saying no to collaborating with them was ridiculous on multiple levels; they made it very clear that they have no intent on becoming less visible or stepping back from the spotlight and expressed extremely paternalistic and “white savior”-type views in relation to their place in the movement even when I took the time to explain that they were overstepping.
Funnily enough, NAAFA actually came up in this conversation. Lindo posed the following hypothetical to me as a kind of justification for why they continue to be visible: “what if NAAFA approaches me about giving a keynote speech for something?” After they assumed that I did not know what NAAFA was (and my correction of that assumption), I informed Lindo that 1) the correct course of action would be to decline the invitation in favor of someone else, 2) the choices fat people/orgs make to increase their visibility and legitimacy are made while they are held hostage by fatphobia and 3) this is not a justification for their continued hypervisibility in our space. They are now attempting to take my valid critiques of them and posit them as “differing views on allyship” so that they can avoid critical introspection and accountability as well as force a collaboration with me. This is actually the second joint project they have “proposed” since I walked away from our collaboration discussion last Wednesday and the third email they have sent me since then despite my consistent non-response. I’d be happy to get into the details of the situation over Zoom sometime, but for now my point is that Lindo doesn’t want to take my “no” for an answer and approached you with a hypothetical collaboration that I am not a willing (hypothetical or not) participant in.
I am planning to talk about my frustrating interaction with Lindo publicly at a later time when I’ve had more than a week to digest it. But I just wanted to give you a heads up about what’s going on.
I’m sorry that you are now burdened with the knowledge of this awkward conflict. Sending lots of hugs.
In fat solidarity,
Mikey
Last edited:
- Joined
- Jan 1, 2021
Is it OK if I don't give a shit about her health or "racism"?
- Joined
- Sep 20, 2016
tl;dr: Lindo Bacon plans to update her HAES book, It's not intersectional enough, so she goes looking for a fat POC to collaborate with, and give co-author credit to. Settles on "Mikey" Mercedes.
And this is why you never try to be an ally to these people—because they hate you, and want to see you destroyed, on any pretext they can come up with.
Mikey's defensive from the start, because Bacon is a thin, white woman, and she knows how thin, white women use allyship with fats and POCs to make themselves look good.
They get together on a Zoom call about it. The original HAES book in question is Lindo's own work, and it's been an important work for a lot of people, so of course Lindo's going to be protective of it, and be acknowledged as the primary author. (In any big revision project like this, that's always going to be the case.) But she seems to genuinely want to bring different perspectives into it that she, as a thin, white woman doesn't have. She recognizes, and seems to honestly believe, that's important.
But working out how they're going to collaborate falls apart, because, from the very start, Mikey Mercedes sees Lindo Bacon herself as problematic. She wants to be full, equal partners on the project; that there's a hierarchy of "original author who made this influential book what it is," and "newcomer asked to help improve and expand upon the second edition" is unacceptable to her.
When Lindo's asked to speak at conferences (because she's a big name, and will draw attendees), she tries to boost "marginalized" fats during her sessions and give them exposure.
But, according to Mikey, this isn't good enough. When Lindo is asked to speak, Mikey believes she, as a thin, white woman, should decline, making way for fats and POCs. Lindo says that if she declines, the organizers will just ask another big name (who is likely to be white, and may or may not be fat), so by accepting speaking engagements she's in a better position to help marginalized fat activists get heard—and she wants them to be heard. But in Mikey's view, this is "playing white savior."
Lindo Bacon seems unaware of how angry Mikey Mercedes is at her—not just for what she's saying in these conversations, but just for existing at all. Lindo's acting in a way I would absolutely expect if I were being brought in on a project like this, and she wants it to be a great opportunity for somebody younger and marginalized to get a huge career boost. But nothing she can offer is going to be good enough for Mikey, because Mikey sees her—a thin, white woman who is the author of a hugely influential book about fat people, and who is regarded as an expert—as somebody who just needs to disappear entirely, in favor of fat POCs.
This means that Lindo Bacon can do no right, and anything positive she attempts to do is going to get branded as her using marginalized people to make her look like a good ally, or playing white savior. Because to be a good ally isn't to work alongside marginalized people for a better, more just world; it's to subordinate yourself to them. And Lindo hasn't figured this out yet.
After the Zoom call, Mikey's furious. But does Lindo even know that? We only have a transcript of the call, so there's no way to judge by voices and body language whether her anger was evident.
Lindo tries to follow up with other suggestions, including ghostwriting parts of the revised HAES (which was a bad idea), and a paid opportunity for them to speak together—she still thinks that door's open because Mikey didn't tell her it's closed, and professionals don't use ghosting as a means to say, "No, I'm not interested." And instead of replying to Lindo and saying, "I have no interest in working with you; stop contacting me," she decides to "expose" Lindo Bacon.
What it comes down to is that you have two people, with totally different agendas, and views of what the conversation was about, having a complete failure to communicate because they were coming at each other from radically different perspectives. Lindo Bacon wants to get her book revised, and knows she needs to make it more inclusive, so she wants somebody who can best help her do that. Mikey Mercedes, on the other hand, sees this as yet another political battle against her forever enemy—the thin, white woman, especially one who is already an expert, and higher on the ladder than she is.
They get together on a Zoom call about it. The original HAES book in question is Lindo's own work, and it's been an important work for a lot of people, so of course Lindo's going to be protective of it, and be acknowledged as the primary author. (In any big revision project like this, that's always going to be the case.) But she seems to genuinely want to bring different perspectives into it that she, as a thin, white woman doesn't have. She recognizes, and seems to honestly believe, that's important.
But working out how they're going to collaborate falls apart, because, from the very start, Mikey Mercedes sees Lindo Bacon herself as problematic. She wants to be full, equal partners on the project; that there's a hierarchy of "original author who made this influential book what it is," and "newcomer asked to help improve and expand upon the second edition" is unacceptable to her.
When Lindo's asked to speak at conferences (because she's a big name, and will draw attendees), she tries to boost "marginalized" fats during her sessions and give them exposure.
But, according to Mikey, this isn't good enough. When Lindo is asked to speak, Mikey believes she, as a thin, white woman, should decline, making way for fats and POCs. Lindo says that if she declines, the organizers will just ask another big name (who is likely to be white, and may or may not be fat), so by accepting speaking engagements she's in a better position to help marginalized fat activists get heard—and she wants them to be heard. But in Mikey's view, this is "playing white savior."
Lindo Bacon seems unaware of how angry Mikey Mercedes is at her—not just for what she's saying in these conversations, but just for existing at all. Lindo's acting in a way I would absolutely expect if I were being brought in on a project like this, and she wants it to be a great opportunity for somebody younger and marginalized to get a huge career boost. But nothing she can offer is going to be good enough for Mikey, because Mikey sees her—a thin, white woman who is the author of a hugely influential book about fat people, and who is regarded as an expert—as somebody who just needs to disappear entirely, in favor of fat POCs.
This means that Lindo Bacon can do no right, and anything positive she attempts to do is going to get branded as her using marginalized people to make her look like a good ally, or playing white savior. Because to be a good ally isn't to work alongside marginalized people for a better, more just world; it's to subordinate yourself to them. And Lindo hasn't figured this out yet.
After the Zoom call, Mikey's furious. But does Lindo even know that? We only have a transcript of the call, so there's no way to judge by voices and body language whether her anger was evident.
Lindo tries to follow up with other suggestions, including ghostwriting parts of the revised HAES (which was a bad idea), and a paid opportunity for them to speak together—she still thinks that door's open because Mikey didn't tell her it's closed, and professionals don't use ghosting as a means to say, "No, I'm not interested." And instead of replying to Lindo and saying, "I have no interest in working with you; stop contacting me," she decides to "expose" Lindo Bacon.
What it comes down to is that you have two people, with totally different agendas, and views of what the conversation was about, having a complete failure to communicate because they were coming at each other from radically different perspectives. Lindo Bacon wants to get her book revised, and knows she needs to make it more inclusive, so she wants somebody who can best help her do that. Mikey Mercedes, on the other hand, sees this as yet another political battle against her forever enemy—the thin, white woman, especially one who is already an expert, and higher on the ladder than she is.
And this is why you never try to be an ally to these people—because they hate you, and want to see you destroyed, on any pretext they can come up with.
- Joined
- Jan 1, 2021
For reference, this is 'POC' fatty Mikey Mercedes. It's Rachel Dolezal with less effort. 
- Joined
- Nov 20, 2021
Ha look who showed up in the comments on the patreon post:
- Joined
- Apr 15, 2021
When the cancelers become the canceled
- Joined
- Jul 8, 2020
Bitch, you idiots WANTED diversity checkmarks. You reap what you sow.
As for Lindo.... crash and burn, bitch
- Joined
- Aug 28, 2019
These fats believe certain races are "inherently" or "meant to be" fat, and that saying otherwise is a form of imposing "white beauty standards".
You hear that Ethiopians? Stop being shitlords!
Pick up a fork, Starvin Marvin.
Oh great, now the natives are joining. Stop siding with the colonizers!
Nooo! Your people are naturally faaaaaat!
Dammit Consuela, not you too!
Pick up a fork, Starvin Marvin.
Oh great, now the natives are joining. Stop siding with the colonizers!
Nooo! Your people are naturally faaaaaat!
Dammit Consuela, not you too!
Yeah, walking around with the weight of an extra person on you is exercise.The “labour” of fat people
Merely existing isn’t labor
I'm genuinely surprised. There are grand total of two videos on tictok in #lindobacon. One of them is the below and the other is just a woman talking about her book in Spanish.Bitch, you idiots WANTED diversity checkmarks. You reap what you sow.
As for Lindo.... crash and burn, bitch
- Joined
- Feb 16, 2022
I've always wondered if they're aware of the fact that during slavery (at least in Latin-America) a common torture practice was to force-feed the slaved men and women who were strong, fast or had tried to escape before. The reason behind it was quite simple: To slow them down so they couldn't escape anymore. How liberating.
*Edit: Grammar.
- Joined
- Aug 28, 2019
Last edited:
- Joined
- Jun 9, 2019
"Do you love yourself" - If you did love yourself then you wouldn't be so insecure about thin people existing or people losing weight and you wouldn't think we have the obligation to find you beautiful. If you did love yourself you'd also know that beauty is subjective and there are people who are chubby chasers too
- Joined
- Feb 20, 2021
This hosebeast desperately needs a shower. How is she so...unctuous?
My favorite part was how she announced this was NOT her opening a dialogue. All of these people seriously think that they're allowed to spout off whatever nonsense they like and nobody else can ever contradict it.
- Joined
- May 15, 2018
Have you ever heard the wolf cry to the blue corn moon
Or asked the grinning bobcat why he grinned
- Joined
- Jul 7, 2021
The sheer amount of grease in these videos