Philosophy Tube / Oliver Lennard / Oliver "Olly" Thorn / Abigail Thorn - Breadtube's Patrick Bateman.

[AssignedEva]

I think Devon's the smartest one of the bunch, in a way.

He obviously got to the point of dressing up and going out:


...which by itself might just be a guy who likes dressing up, but the non binary stuff means it was more than that.

So he got to the point of coming out as non binary, which as we've seen time and again is usually a stop on the egg cracking transition express, but then his fiancée left him. He seemed to have butched up a bit when the pandemic hit as well so perhaps rather than just raging about his transphobic fiancée, perhaps he used lockdown to self reflect, and realised his best chance of being attractive is remaining a man and just grifting about being an enby (rather than wrecking his mind and body with HRT and "social transition"). So he did a lot better than Ollie and Alice who succumbed to the coom.

Then again this could be a Ben Hopkins situation where this was always his desired end goal.

Funnily enough, he had a bit of a meltdown about BMI when PT released the Food video.

View attachment 3057041

(So interesting that he calls himself a dude. I guess he can be both a dude and nonbinary in the same way Alice can be both a lesbian and a twink.)

Honestly, I wouldn't say there's anything wrong with his body if he were comfortable with it, but he can't be comfortable for real if he's swaddling himself in delusion like this. There are very few men who've muscled their way into the obese category with sub-17% body fat, and Devon isn't one of them. You can tell from his selfies that he believes his muscles are like 150% of their actual size. I don't mean to downplay his efforts — it's fucking hard to gain muscle, even as a man — but the preening and peacocking and self-representing as a himbo lumberjack lifter god... that's unbearable. Every one of his thirst traps begs you to affirm that he's as hot as he thinks he is. The smugness is the thing that sinks him, far worse than the actual shape of his body, which is chubby but not unattractive to many straight women when attached to a nice face and charming personality.

Devon, of course, is a host of Kill James Bond, so there goes the personality.

He's a lot like Olly in that his natural physical features are unobjectionable, but he makes them repulsive by sheer force of narcissism. That one page from The Witches is evergreen.

View attachment 3057513


The sad thing is that a lot of them aren't incels. Olly had girlfriends. Devon has a girlfriend now. It's not like they've never been close to women, or they've imagined women into monsters or angels due to lack of exposure. With men like that, you can hope that growing up and getting to know a few women will help. These men have had sex with women, been in relationships with women, embedded themselves in women's lives, and they STILL think of women (the actual human beings) as equivalent to Woman (the feminine archetype). God help the women who suffered them.

I think he got caught out because people don't realise what overweight/obese looks like. Especially since most people are overweight.

I'm slightly overweight at the moment and I don't look in the mirror and see a fat person. Obesity is the same. Like take this guy:

That's a progress post from Reddit. He's clearly obese on the left, and just overweight on the right, yeah? Nope. He's obese in both and is celebrating he's finally down to BMI 30 and if he keeps it up then he can stop being obese soon.

Devon clearly has some muscle to him. I could buy he's just quite overweight and the muscles tip him over the edge into an "obese" bmi (it weighs four times more than fat) but it's not like those situations where super in shape guys with low bodyfat get flagged as overweight/obese. If he wants a more objective measure he can try a height to waist ratio measurement (your waist should be less than half your height, up to slightly more if you're a bloke) or hip to waist ratio (your waist should be smaller than your hips, up to the same if you're a bloke). Or a bodyfat percentage machine.

I'd go so far to say that Devon is quite good looking (far more so that Ollie ever was), and while he could stand to lose some weight he doesn't really need to (lookswise) as he pulls it off, but I fully agree that his personality is incredibly off-putting.

 

[The Jackal]

I think Devon's the smartest one of the bunch, in a way.

Well he's clearly trying to have his cake and eat it too: he gets social prestige from being 'non-binary' and 'trans' while not having to make himself look ridiculous by dressing up as a woman, getting plastic surgery, hair removal, etc. I'm not sure I'd say it's 'smart' but it's at least more sensible.

 

[PennyAni]

(So interesting that he calls himself a dude. I guess he can be both a dude and nonbinary in the same way Alice can be both a lesbian and a twink.)

Yeah to quote Devon upthread "I do what I want." Which seems to pretty much sum up the ethos of these three, like the hostile insanity we've seen "Alice" spew on Twitter in posts here: I can do what I want, be whatever I want. I am whatever I say I am. Words have no meaning and if you insist they do I'm gonna deconstruct that delusion for you by virtue of my very existence and innate identity, which is whatever the hell I say it is at any given moment, etc., etc.

Also, kind of unrelated: I just happened upon an old still of one of Olly's livestreams from 2021 upthread and it's jarring. As much hell as we gave him, he didn't 'pass' then either, of course, but he for sure looked a dozen times better before this surgery and eyebrow massacre we're seeing now.

In the age where "cultural appropriation" is a thing and Gwen Stefani was cancelled because she has a bit of a fascination with Japanese culture, how on earth is larping as a muslim woman okay?

For real. Or, for that matter, LARPing as a woman? But oh noes that's "TERF-y"! And there's nothing worse than that! It's kind of astonishing how TRAs have managed to make feminism almost taboo in the larger woke culture in the year 20-fucking-22.


@AssignedEva
@The Jackal

Wrt: Devon....What do y'all think about Devon's whole thing being a possible end goal for Olly? Or are we beyond thinking that he'd ever even semi-detrans now after the hormones and FFS, etc.?

 

[AssignedEva]

@AssignedEva
@The Jackal

Wrt: Devon....What do y'all think about Devon's whole thing being a possible end goal for Olly? Or are we beyond thinking that he'd ever even semi-detrans now after the hormones and FFS, etc.?

In general the "I'm a man who doesn't take hormones or has surgery and doesn't really look gender non-conforming but somehow claims to be trans" is a cope that comes if they've not taken any steps to transition.
Take for example these three beauties:

From left to right you've got Meredith Talusan, Jacob Tobia and Alok Vaid-Menon.
Meredith changed her name, took hormones, grew boobs, had the surgery and generally presents as a woman. Jacob and Alok did not. All three of them claim to be non binary transfemmes or genderqueer or whatever. As per Meredith's 2017 article "Why Can't My Famous Gender Nonconforming Friends Get Laid?" about the three of them:

As Alok set up my Tinder account, I became confused when they asked whether I wanted to set my gender as "man" or "woman." This all happened in those dark days of autumn 2016, before Tinder added 37 new gender options to the app. Since I'm on the femme side of nonbinary, I thought it would be obvious that I wouldn't label myself a man. Alok then added pictures of me from Facebook. In each of them, I was androgynous and without makeup—except for one from an event the three of us attended, where I borrowed a lycra bodysuit from Alok and painted my lips black.
"OMG, I'm going to switch my gender to 'woman' too so I can look at straight guys!" Alok exclaimed as they picked up their phone, and Jacob followed suit. I'd vaguely known that most of their prospects had been gay-identified men, but it didn't even occur to me that if given only two gender choices, they would need to pick "man" on Tinder so they would get gay instead of straight matches, along with the rare bi and pan guys.

"Straight boys are soooo cuuuute," Alok said as they and Jacob started swiping, their exaggerated intonation managing to feel both sincere and ironic. "Maybe we should get electrolysis and take hormones," Jacob added in jest, perking up at the bevy of new options.
We spent the next hour swiping away, and as I began getting matches, I put on the charm. In the meantime, Alok and Jacob complained that they couldn't get matches in the first place, even when they resorted to swiping right on almost everyone. And even with the few matches they did get, guys didn't respond when they messaged.

I wondered aloud why Alok and Jacob weren't getting matches, if there was some algorithmic mystery at play—whether guys were racist against Indians, in Alok's case, or if they found Jacob's bright makeup too intimidating.
"Meredith," Alok finally blurted out, interrupting me in a tone replete with tolerance. "You look cis."
With those words, Alok exposed the key difference between me and them. Though I've come into my own gender-nonbinary identity, to many, my body reads as cisgender because I'm short and don't have body hair. I've also taken hormones and had reassignment surgery, because I went through a period when I thought I was a binary trans woman, before figuring out I wasn't comfortable with that identity either.
What I didn't quite grasp until Alok pointed it out was that now, regardless of how GNC I tried to present, cis people still predominantly read me as a cis woman. If I told a stranger I was trans, it's likely they might think I'm an early-transitioning trans guy more than anything else. So on Tinder, I can still get dates, since there are plenty of guys who like the androgynous female look. On the other hand, Alok and Jacob's features haven't been softened by hormones, and they have visible body hair that marks them as more obviously trans, so they have a much harder time. Nonbinary femmes like them are too masc for the straights, too femme for the gays, and too out for nearly everyone else.

Basically someone who hasn't fucked up their body with hormones and/or surgery can stay in that position pretty comfortably. Alok complains later in the article about getting "femmezoned" by a "masc" crush. This is because they're getting viewed as fruity gay guys who wear makeup and dress like clowns. Meredith meanwhile is getting chasers and guys who think she's a ciswoman genderblob that's non binary for attention.

Transitioned trans women do switch to saying they're "non binary trans women" or "transfeminine", but this usually doesn't include presenting like men or coming off hormones, it usually it's just a way of coping about being a hon, wanting to justify getting lazy with stuff like shaving, or wanting to get more attention in the trans community by being an oppressed minority within the oppressed minority (see: Kevin Gibes). They don't tend to go backwards in their transition and start basically trying to be men again, unless they're legitimately detransing (you do see this with FTMs, though, shouting about how men can be feminine and wear skirts and makeup and do drag and UwU I'm a soft enby transmasc starboi genderfeely smol bean). At most you'll see them go the "woman" side of genderqueer like our friend Meredith here, but I don't think that would really appeal to Ollie.

 

[The Jackal]

Wrt: Devon....What do y'all think about Devon's whole thing being a possible end goal for Olly? Or are we beyond thinking that he'd ever even semi-detrans now after the hormones and FFS, etc.?

To be honest, I think it's unlikely. When people detransition it seems to usually be the result of some kind of mental breakdown or spiritual crisis. I could imagine that happening to Contra, but I don't think that's on the cards for Olly any time soon. I don't get the impression that he's a tortured soul. He seems pretty happy (or just manic perhaps). Living his best life.

If anything, and unless his acting career takes off, I think he's more likely to dive deeper into insanity and self-mutilation because he's desperate for the attention, and unlike Devon he's willing to take the plunge and do whatever it takes. His 'coming out' as a woman is already old news, and soon the new face will be too. So he gets an even smaller nose. He gets some fake tits perhaps. I could see him converting to Islam like his minion. Whatever gets him noticed. Unless detransitioning becomes the new trendy bandwagon for him to jump on at some point in the future, he's in it for the long haul.

Then again, I'm no expert in how easy it actually is to turn back the clock once you've done the surgery and taken the hormones, etc. I'm guessing it's pretty psychologically/physically taxing to do a U-turn on all that, but feel free to inform me otherwise if I'm wrong.

@AssignedEva

I wondered aloud why Alok and Jacob weren't getting matches, if there was some algorithmic mystery at play—whether guys were racist against Indians, in Alok's case, or if they found Jacob's bright makeup too intimidating.
"Meredith," Alok finally blurted out, interrupting me in a tone replete with tolerance. "You look cis."
With those words, Alok exposed the key difference between me and them. Though I've come into my own gender-nonbinary identity, to many, my body reads as cisgender because I'm short and don't have body hair. I've also taken hormones and had reassignment surgery, because I went through a period when I thought I was a binary trans woman, before figuring out I wasn't comfortable with that identity either.
What I didn't quite grasp until Alok pointed it out was that now, regardless of how GNC I tried to present, cis people still predominantly read me as a cis woman. If I told a stranger I was trans, it's likely they might think I'm an early-transitioning trans guy more than anything else. So on Tinder, I can still get dates, since there are plenty of guys who like the androgynous female look. On the other hand, Alok and Jacob's features haven't been softened by hormones, and they have visible body hair that marks them as more obviously trans, so they have a much harder time. Nonbinary femmes like them are too masc for the straights, too femme for the gays, and too out for nearly everyone else.

Really? It really took you that long to figure out why the majority of guys on Tinder don't want to fuck a man in a dress? I think you cracked the code there, Meredith. Well done.

 

[Excited Eraser]

Honestly, I think the muslim trans guy is the worst of the bunch because it makes it obvious for what it is - a fetish. It's obvious that the whole "muslim" larp comes hand-in-hand with thinking about females as being inherently submissive to men and that a woman's place in the world is to be subservient. They're really all just incels who are unable to see women as actual human beings who happen to be female.

In the age where "cultural appropriation" is a thing and Gwen Stefani was cancelled because she has a bit of a fascination with Japanese culture, how on earth is larping as a muslim woman okay?

In the same way as Ollie can act like a misogynistic pig and get away with it. The intersectional totem pole of oppression is the only concrete concept these people adhere to. Woman + trans + muslim equals immunity from any criticism. In the end it's nothing but Foucault combined with Kimberlé Crenshaw taken to its extreme.

And it's not cultural appropriation because that only applies if it's not 'authentic', which just means adhering to the above principles. As long as you toe the line you can do whatever you want, including appropriating insane stuff like 'two-spirit'. If 'Alice' every says something racist about black people both the trans and muslim labels will be stripped away too.

 

[AfghanBlue]

Came across a post with some more screenshots of "Alice" being a lunatic
View attachment 3057044
Him not even bothering to pretend that Nazi/genocide fetishes are weird:
View attachment 3057047View attachment 3057048View attachment 3057050

I kind of get where he’s coming from with the Nazi thing- it’s like, such an old school fetish that we’ve gone so far past now in terms of degeneracy, it seems sort of quaint.
Plus I don’t think u can really put moral judgements on certain aspects of fetishsim- it’s all dodgy, that’s sort of the point- if any aspect of any fetish was ‘real’ It would be fucked up.
It’s no more evil than someone making a ww2 movie and then ppl being like “um really? We are really gonna glorify and make money off the existence of the nazis, who killed millions of ppl’ etc.

Now saying all that- on the other hand Alice Is so singularly gross that he manages to completely unravel all of the above by going above and beyond and have a genuinely immoral fetish - his infamous gross post about Islam forcefeeding Etc- But then, I mean it’s gross in and of itself but most of the true awfulness if it comes more from his totally-real muslima larp.

 

[lady stoneheart]

instead of insisting they’re famous and super duper successful, fat bearded dude pretending to be trans and goblin dude pretending to be Muslim should be eternally grateful they’re not actually well-known at all or they’d be peaking thousands every time they were in a gossip rag. both of them are perfect examples of how Twitter-think melts people’s brains until they believe saying something is equivalent to action- the posting-memes-is-activism phenomenon. in their belief system words are supposed to be treated as more real than physical life.

imagine i’m just a regular normie instead of a hate-posting veteran of the internet. fat bearded dude says he is trans and puts zero effort into dressing, acting, or sounding any different- and i’m supposed to treat this person the same as i would a gigahon who’s invested in his larp such as Laverne Cox? is Devon welcome on the women’s swimming team? what challenges do you think he faces in his life besides people being mean on Twitter? i’m supposed to treat him differently based on his personal inner thoughts rather than his outward actions. exactly which adjustments should i make for a person who doesn’t even commit to the larp irl?

now for the goblin Muslim larper. i know Muslims irl and whatever you think about their religion they devote a lot of energy towards following their beliefs. am i supposed to treat this man like a Muslim just because he says he is and not because he shows he is through his deeds? does this man get up at 5am every single day to pray the Fajr? idk what butchers are common in bongland but does he make sacrifices to eat Halal? Muslims are very clean, does anyone truly believe that he even showers more than once a week, let alone thoroughly washes his ass and hands with water every time after using the toilet? does he ever demonstrate belief or faith in God? if he doesn’t do these things what makes him a Muslim and why should i treat him as such? therefore if being a Muslim is so obviously just a larp for him, what conclusions might the average person come to about the other costumes he tries to wear?

 

[The Jackal]

now for the goblin Muslim larper. i know Muslims irl and whatever you think about their religion they devote a lot of energy towards following their beliefs. am i supposed to treat this man like a Muslim just because he says he is and not because he shows he is through his deeds? does this man get up at 5am every single day to pray the Fajr? idk what butchers are common in bongland but does he make sacrifices to eat Halal? Muslims are very clean, does anyone truly believe that he even showers more than once a week, let alone thoroughly washes his ass and hands with water every time after using the toilet? does he ever demonstrate belief or faith in God? if he doesn’t do these things what makes him a Muslim and why should i treat him as such? therefore if being a Muslim is so obviously just a larp for him, what conclusions might the average person come to about the other costumes he tries to wear?

Wondering that myself. I wouldn't be surprised if he eats halal food - there are a lot of muslims in Britain and it isn't hard to come by. I'm quite certain he doesn't go to a mosque because actual muslims would think he's a degenerate and would probably assume that he's deliberately trying to insult them, and if he tried to go through the women-only door they'd tell him to fuck off.

I expect the tweet posted earlier is accurate: he just sits at home wearing a hijab and fetish wear reading the Koran and eating Toblerone.

 

[Mayor Adam West]

Wondering that myself. I wouldn't be surprised if he eats halal food - there are a lot of muslims in Britain and it isn't hard to come by. I'm quite certain he doesn't go to a mosque because actual muslims would think he's a degenerate and would probably assume that he's deliberately trying to insult them, and if he tried to go through the women-only door they'd tell him to fuck off.

I expect the tweet posted earlier is accurate: he just sits at home wearing a hijab and fetish wear reading the Koran and eating Toblerone.

Wait wait Olly is a Muslim now? I don't see how he can be. Isn't Islam very very anti trans? Like I am a Catholic so I understand the Catholic case against transgenderism. I am not sure if the theology in Islam is the same or even similar. But in all seriousness regardless any religion other than some new age bullshit or sects which have reformed in order to adopt a more secular moral code would view him as a degenerate and not welcome. At least not in the way he thinks. Maybe they'd let him in, but they'd tell him to ditch the make up and act like a man.

 

[Boris Blank's glass eye]

I expect the tweet posted earlier is accurate: he just sits at home wearing a hijab and fetish wear reading the Koran and eating Toblerone.

He's in luck then - Toblerone acquired its Halal certification in 2018.

 

[AssignedEva]

instead of insisting they’re famous and super duper successful, fat bearded dude pretending to be trans and goblin dude pretending to be Muslim should be eternally grateful they’re not actually well-known at all or they’d be peaking thousands every time they were in a gossip rag. both of them are perfect examples of how Twitter-think melts people’s brains until they believe saying something is equivalent to action- the posting-memes-is-activism phenomenon. in their belief system words are supposed to be treated as more real than physical life.

imagine i’m just a regular normie instead of a hate-posting veteran of the internet. fat bearded dude says he is trans and puts zero effort into dressing, acting, or sounding any different- and i’m supposed to treat this person the same as i would a gigahon who’s invested in his larp such as Laverne Cox? is Devon welcome on the women’s swimming team? what challenges do you think he faces in his life besides people being mean on Twitter? i’m supposed to treat him differently based on his personal inner thoughts rather than his outward actions. exactly which adjustments should i make for a person who doesn’t even commit to the larp irl?

now for the goblin Muslim larper. i know Muslims irl and whatever you think about their religion they devote a lot of energy towards following their beliefs. am i supposed to treat this man like a Muslim just because he says he is and not because he shows he is through his deeds? does this man get up at 5am every single day to pray the Fajr? idk what butchers are common in bongland but does he make sacrifices to eat Halal? Muslims are very clean, does anyone truly believe that he even showers more than once a week, let alone thoroughly washes his ass and hands with water every time after using the toilet? does he ever demonstrate belief or faith in God? if he doesn’t do these things what makes him a Muslim and why should i treat him as such? therefore if being a Muslim is so obviously just a larp for him, what conclusions might the average person come to about the other costumes he tries to wear?

Ollie, Devon and Alice would all have the same response: you're making bigoted assumptions.

Alice's Islam is the easiest one. I know Muslim women who only sometimes wear it as a personal expression of faith. The teaching, is about modesty and humility in dress - and that can be culturally specific. Perhaps they just disagree with that teaching entirely (after all, 1 Timothy 2:9-10 says something similar, but there's plenty of Southern Christian women in the states who are on the way to being drag queens). Alice lives in Glasgow - there's plenty of halal butchers there, and you'll find halal products in every supermarket (and even if you couldn't, you can just go vegetarian)... but there's Muslims who choose to eat non-halal meat, and even pork. There's Muslims who drink, Muslims who engage in pre-marital sex, gay Muslims. Islam's a more conservative religion than most, but there's LGBT+ affirming mosques now. You're just making assumptions that someone who's a white trans woman convert has to prove her deeply rooted connection with allah while an Arab raised Muslim doesn't, because you don't take her identity seriously.

Devon would tell you that non binary people don't have to conform to cisnormative assumptions about gender presentation. It's gender identity, not gender presentation, that matters. You cannot tell someone's gender from someone's appearance - nor someone's pronouns. You're just making assumptions that someone who's a masculine presenting enby has to prove their gender identity, because you don't take non-binary identities seriously.

The falling down point is that there's a big difference between someone raised Muslim recontextualising their culture and a white convert picking and choosing (and the latter is indistinguishable from an AGP with a "Muslima" forced sissification fetish), a big difference between someone who consistently walks around presenting in a way that could get them beaten up and a beardy masculine enby who goes by they (and the latter is indistinguishable from a bloke who wants clout).

Wondering that myself. I wouldn't be surprised if he eats halal food - there are a lot of muslims in Britain and it isn't hard to come by. I'm quite certain he doesn't go to a mosque because actual muslims would think he's a degenerate and would probably assume that he's deliberately trying to insult them, and if he tried to go through the women-only door they'd tell him to fuck off.

I expect the tweet posted earlier is accurate: he just sits at home wearing a hijab and fetish wear reading the Koran and eating Toblerone.

I doubt he'd be sitting at home in fetishwear reading the Qur'an and eating Toblerone. The headscarf is the fetishwear, and he's probably just listening to a Qur'an audiobook while fantasising about a big Arab bull emasculating him (in the AGP meta-attracted pseudobisexual sense). The toblerone's probably accurate, though.
Bonus Alice content that I found double checking his sexuality (husband and "mean domme girlfriends"):

 

[Real Gay Autist]

Some great posts on this thread of late. @AssignedEva , characteristically, hits the nail on the head when it comes to exposing Ollie's narcissism. And @fax machine , similarly, shows us the depth of Devon's own narcissistic grift. It was interesting to talk, when we had the awesome watch party that time (shoutout to @esmeggs for that) - I think many of us are fascinated by Ollie and his rag-tag bunch of wannabe-private-school-rugby-lads-turned-Muslimah-trans-nonbinary pseudointellectual princesses because of our personal experiences with insidious narcissists. I honestly think it would be so much fun to have a Louis Theroux-style exposé of these KJB grifters. I wanna go to the PT musical just to experience how excruciatingly insufferable these boys are in real life.

That Devon guy really takes the cake; I think he repulses me more than the other KJBers. Ollie and Alice are at least kind of making an effort. All Devon can do is desperately try to reinflate his three-weeks-after-the-kid's-party-deflated-balloon of an ego by posting try-hard gym selfies subjecting us to his dad bod and barely-discernable sweatpants bulge. Also, total personal sperg, but for some reason he tweets in terrible Korean which is obviously run through Google translate...?!

Spoiler: Sperging out about Devon's Korean

He's trying to say something like "My gender identity is neither male nor female; my gender identity is beautiful" or somesuch narcissistic babble. The first thing is that Korean doesn't really have a good word for 'gender identity' (because Koreans have so far resisted most of this brain-rotting ideology) so the expression he uses just sounds awkward. Ironically and hilariously, it actually means "sense of sex(ual) identity": Korean only has the word 성 (性) seong which means "sex"; for "gender" in the bullshitty transtrender sense, they just have to borrow the English word as 젠더 jendeo (wiki link in Korean). And then he makes very obvious mistakes, e.g. mixing up the 'humble' word for "my" (제) with its 'plain' equivalent (내). These are things obvious to someone who has been learning Korean for like a fortnight; clearly this is just Google translate. And, yet, he claims to speak Korean:

He writes "I can't speak Korean well. I am learning"; except, here again, it's obviously Google translate: he mixes two speech styles (formal in the first sentence vs. plain in the second). This is a mistake no early Korean learner would make, as they are usually taught the polite style (ending -요 -yo) first.

Man, sorry to properly sperg out about these details and get MATI but it just shows how these narcissistic personality structures cannot fucking help themselves.

 

[The Jackal]

Man, sorry to properly sperg out about these details and get MATI but it just shows how these narcissistic personality structures cannot fucking help themselves.

Don't apologize - you've confirmed my suspicions.

Wait wait Olly is a Muslim now? I don't see how he can be. Isn't Islam very very anti trans? Like I am a Catholic so I understand the Catholic case against transgenderism. I am not sure if the theology in Islam is the same or even similar. But in all seriousness regardless any religion other than some new age bullshit or sects which have reformed in order to adopt a more secular moral code would view him as a degenerate and not welcome. At least not in the way he thinks. Maybe they'd let him in, but they'd tell him to ditch the make up and act like a man.

Not Olly, one of the co-hosts on his James Bond podcast.

The falling down point is that there's a big difference between someone raised Muslim recontextualising their culture and a white convert picking and choosing (and the latter is indistinguishable from an AGP with a "Muslima" forced sissification fetish)

Can't say I really agree here. I don't think the concept of 'cultural appropriation' is meaningful, but even apart from that, Islam is an open religion that accepts converts from any ethnic background and everyone should be free to pick and choose their own beliefs. What's clear in this case however is that it just isn't sincere at all - he wants the extra oppressed minority cred and, yeah, I'm sure it turns him on. It's quite transparently not a manifestation of genuine religious feeling.

I doubt he'd be sitting at home in fetishwear reading the Qur'an and eating Toblerone. The headscarf is the fetishwear, and he's probably just listening to a Qur'an audiobook while fantasising about a big Arab bull emasculating him (in the AGP meta-attracted pseudobisexual sense). The toblerone's probably accurate, though.

I'll take your word for it - I was just quoting from that tweet. I do think the idea of him lounging around in a hijab and a bondage outfit is a good symbolic image though.

 

[PennyAni]

@lady stoneheart

Wrt the "goblin Muslim LARPer", (loving that, btw), yes. Yes you are supposed to treat him as you would any Muslim. Whether he actually believes in or practices the faith at all is entirely inconsequential, according to Alice. He says he's Muslim so he's Muslim.

But yes, absolutely....it's people who resist people like him who aren't living in reality.

Can't say I really agree here. I don't think the concept of 'cultural appropriation' is meaningful, but even apart from that, Islam is an open religion that accepts converts from any ethnic background and everyone should be free to pick and choose their own beliefs.

Is this really how it works in Islam? Only asking because I'm also from a conservative religious background and "picking and choosing" what you believe or which rules you're supposed to follow is what they call "Cafeteria Catholicism". Which....I know, I know- most Catholics are Cafetria Catholics to *some* degree or another. But the concept is still officially very much frowned upon.

 

[narcissistic injury]

Any (legitimate) hijabi (Muslim woman wearing a hijab) I’ve met would regard “Alice” as an abomination.

Several I’ve met would dismiss any of the liberal Muslim ppl you’ve mentioned @AssignedEva (gays… drinkers… less than observant…. Even non hijab wearing women) as “not real” muslims. This is in North America. Maybe the “not real” muslims might be cool with alice but not the hijabis… insulted, frightened

Like the entire point of donning the hijab is a display of modesty and faith. That is fundamentally at odds with being a fucking perv pretending to be a woman talking about ejaculation and disgusting bdsm shit and being a “lesbian” constantly

Like holy fuck a lot of hijabi women I met wouldn’t be comfy with ACTUAL lesbians lol

 

[Tombigbee]

Hour-long YouTube videos are thriving in the TikTok era.

Spoiler

“Some of the best-known video essay creators — Lindsay Ellis, Natalie Wynn of ContraPoints, and Abigail Thorn of PhilosophyTube — are often associated with BreadTube, an umbrella term for a group of left-leaning, long-form YouTubers who provide intellectualized commentary on political and cultural topics.

It’s not an exaggeration to claim that I — and many of my fellow Gen Zers — were raised on video essays, academically* and intellectually.”



*A recent Pearson study found that a majority of Generation Z kids prefer learning from YouTube and videos rather than printed books.[\SPOILER]

 

[The Jackal]

Is this really how it works in Islam? Only asking because I'm also from a conservative religious background and "picking and choosing" what you believe or which rules you're supposed to follow is what they "Cafeteria Catholicism". Which....I know, I know- most Catholics are Cafetria Catholics to *some* degree or another. But the concept is still officially very much frowned upon.

LOL no, it absolutely isn't. I was saying that in my personal opinion everyone should be free to pick and choose. In general, Islam is an extremely conservative religion.

Hour-long YouTube videos are thriving in the TikTok era.

Well that hardly bodes well for the future of civilization, does it?

 

[AssignedEva]

Any (legitimate) hijabi (Muslim woman wearing a hijab) I’ve met would regard “Alice” as an abomination.

Several I’ve met would dismiss any of the liberal Muslim ppl you’ve mentioned @AssignedEva (gays… drinkers… less than observant…. Even non hijab wearing women) as “not real” muslims. This is in North America. Maybe the “not real” muslims might be cool with alice but not the hijabis… insulted, frightened

Like the entire point of donning the hijab is a display of modesty and faith. That is fundamentally at odds with being a fucking perv pretending to be a woman talking about ejaculation and disgusting bdsm shit and being a “lesbian” constantly

Like holy fuck a lot of hijabi women I met wouldn’t be comfy with ACTUAL lesbians lol

Spoiler: hijab sperg

There's a big variation, for sure. The East London Mosque played host to hilarious slapfights over the khaleeji hijab a while back, which if you don't know is the "camel hump" shape that despite being a hijab is still considered haram by some

and likewise the turban style hijab you see hijabi influencers wearing causes concern. Because as you point out, the reason for hijab is haya (modesty), so it arguably doesn't make sense for a hijabi to simultaneously cover their hair while doing so in an ostentatious, attention grabbing way (much less also talking openly about sex and wearing skimpy clothing.)
Not terribly related but there's a great /r/AITA post about a hijabi woman who organised a woman only event for a bridal party so she could take her hijab off, only to be ambushed by a trans woman who she knew pre-transition and then called a transphobe for not taking it off. The reddit comments are a goldmine.

Most of the time Muslims I know who are permissive are heavily Westernised - it's not so much that they're theologians with incredibly nuanced takes, they've just grown up in Britain with British mates and so don't think about it. I've got a mate who's a lesbian, drinks, smokes, swears, doesn't go to mosque except when visiting family back up North, doesn't pray five times a day, can pull off a miniskirt - but still observes Ramadan. People like this are basically lapsed Muslims (which I know isn't "a thing" in Islam) with a cultural connection to their family's faith. They're no different to "Christians" who only ever step foot in a Church to get married or have a christening (and vaguely murmur something about going to Heaven when you die but don't think about it beyond that), it's just that you don't tend to get the hellfire and brimstone preachers calling for their destruction here.

My point's basically that there's a difference from someone who's raised in a religion and has lapsed but still feels a connection to it, and someone who's essentially announcing they're converting from Catholicism into being an ex-Muslim who retains their cultural connections to their faith (despite never having had any cultural connection to the faith), skipping the actual Muslim step. You normally convert into a religion because you've had some sort of spiritual awakening, or you're integrating with your partner's beliefs in order to get married/raise a family with them. Which Alice isn't doing.


(I assume Christopher is a relative). Oh and:

"How much of your decision to convert was based in the fact that Islam literally translates to 'submission'?"

I get the sense you mean this in a sexual way, but it is important and meaningful to me to be submissive to God. Of course I'm into BDSM and of course I'm a submissive and a masochist, so maybe that comes from the same tendency, and maybe some of the feelings overlap. I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. From the Ecstasy of Saint Theresa to the Sufi poets who called themselves the brides of God, there is a long, long history of mixing sexual desire with religion. For me personally, submission to God gives me a feeling of being guided that I feel immensely comforted by, and I appreciate Islam's structure and obligations because they help me to focus past my basketful of mental illnesses. I can pray five times a day but find it difficult to meditate because there's a direction - when to pray, which direction to face, even the physical movements. It's not a simple or an easy connection - I don't feel about God the way I do any dominant, they're quite distinct feelings for me. But the human mind and human sexuality are messy, awkward things, so I couldn't deny that there are some shared aspects.

Alice (née Alexander Kelly) appears to have converted prior to 2017 but I think some more digging might be needed.
I wonder what's going on with Ollie?

Oh. Marrying transgender mermaid sperging (a la Jazz Jennings) with posh rugby lad naval history (the Endurance was used in Sir Ernest Shackleton's Imperial Trans-Antarctic Expedition)

 

[AfghanBlue]

@AssignedEva the Christopher who replies is his ill looking american (possible troon?) sexless immigration marriage husband, and he allegedly has some girlfriends