War Invasion of Ukraine News Megathread - Thread is only for articles and discussion of articles, general discussion thread is still in Happenings.

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President Joe Biden on Tuesday said that the United States will impose sanctions “far beyond” the ones that the United States imposed in 2014 following the annexation of the Crimean peninsula.

“This is the beginning of a Russian invasion of Ukraine,” Biden said in a White House speech, signaling a shift in his administration’s position. “We will continue to escalate sanctions if Russia escalates,” he added.

Russian elites and their family members will also soon face sanctions, Biden said, adding that “Russia will pay an even steeper price” if Moscow decides to push forward into Ukraine. Two Russian banks and Russian sovereign debt will also be sanctioned, he said.

Also in his speech, Biden said he would send more U.S. troops to the Baltic states as a defensive measure to strengthen NATO’s position in the area.

Russia shares a border with Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania.

A day earlier, Russian President Vladimir Putin ordered troops to go into the separatist Donetsk and Lugansk regions in eastern Ukraine after a lengthy speech in which he recognized the two regions’ independence.

Western powers decried the move and began to slap sanctions on certain Russian individuals, while Germany announced it would halt plans to go ahead with the Russia-to-Germany Nord Stream 2 pipeline.

At home, Biden is facing bipartisan pressure to take more extensive actions against Russia following Putin’s decision. However, a recent poll showed that a majority of Americans believe that sending troops to Ukraine is a “bad idea,” and a slim minority believes it’s a good one.

All 27 European Union countries unanimously agreed on an initial list of sanctions targeting Russian authorities, said French Foreign Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian, and EU foreign affairs head Josep Borell claimed the package “will hurt Russia … a lot.”

Earlier Tuesday, Borell asserted that Russian troops have already entered the Donbas region, which comprises Donetsk and Lugansk, which are under the control of pro-Russia groups since 2014.

And on Tuesday, the Russian Parliament approved a Putin-back plan to use military force outside of Russia’s borders as Putin further said that Russia confirmed it would recognize the expanded borders of Lugansk and Donetsk.

“We recognized the states,” the Russian president said. “That means we recognized all of their fundamental documents, including the constitution, where it is written that their [borders] are the territories at the time the two regions were part of Ukraine.”

Speaking to reporters on Tuesday, Putin said that Ukraine is “not interested in peaceful solutions” and that “every day, they are amassing troops in the Donbas.”

Meanwhile, Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelensky on Tuesday morning again downplayed the prospect of a Russian invasion and proclaimed: “There will be no war.”

“There will not be an all-out war against Ukraine, and there will not be a broad escalation from Russia. If there is, then we will put Ukraine on a war footing,” he said in a televised address.

The White House began to signal that they would shift their own position on whether it’s the start of an invasion.

“We think this is, yes, the beginning of an invasion, Russia’s latest invasion into Ukraine,” said Jon Finer, the White House deputy national security adviser in public remarks. “An invasion is an invasion and that is what is underway.”

For weeks, Western governments have been claiming Moscow would invade its neighbor after Russia gathered some 150,000 troops along the countries’ borders. They alleged that the Kremlin would attempt to come up with a pretext to attack, while some officials on Monday said Putin’s speech recognizing the two regions was just that.

But Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin told reporters Tuesday that Russia’s “latest invasion” of Ukraine is threatening stability in the region, but he asserted that Putin can “still avoid a full blown, tragic war of choice.”

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So I wouldn't buy the idea that this is the beginning of some Eurasian alliance, but India trying to play off both sides to get what benefits them.
This has basically been India's foreign policy since the Cold War; play both sides against each other so that India benefits. Anyone trying to tell you that India buying Russian oil is part of some grand "Eurasian realignment" is spouting bullshit to you, and should be ignored.
 
All of these old soviet era war plans are predicated on large amounts of manpower in a world in which new age technology bypasses it. I have a million troops but they mostly carry ak-47's and we need to supply line hard to feed them. Modern fighting the way the west does requires way less people and the weapons we pack are heavy. It cost lots of money to reform our military this way but we could afford and can still afford to do it. We have floating Islands (aircraft carriers) and Flying Islands (AC-130's) jam packed with artillery.
 
Yeah that's been brought up before when people keep mentioning this weird idea that the Russkies, chinks and Pajeets are going to enter some weird tripartite esque pact.


I'm not sure I entirely agree with this. The biggest issue is India is massively, massively reliant on Russian arms. Something like 2/3 of their arms imports over the last 20 years are Russian, and anywhere between 60-85% of their shit is now of Russian origin (meaning it's generally dependent on Russian supplies for spare parts/maintenence etc). I'm sure India would like American support to stand off the Chinks, but if worst comes to worst they could manage without it given the terrain etc. What they couldn't manage without is all their military shit. Unless American/the West makes some sort of insanely generous offers to help India rearm with western made shit the literally cannot afford to turn away from Russia to any meaningful extent.
India is probably thinking of buying from US from now on, but that's going to cost money and time, which they probably don't really have right now especially the latter. With China increasingly going autistic with their military, India have to match them as well. But again, switching to US toys takes money and time, so their best bet right now is keeping their Russian stuff supplied and maintained
 
He didn't blood-libel it, merely cautioned about letting it escape control and take over, the same as all the other things he had been involved with.
This right here shows whomever repeats this never looked into U.S. military history of procurements, past and present. And it is blood libel as he effectively called "Rosie the Riveter" a threat to the United States. Or not as those working to keep America free weren't permanently unemployed and dependent on government welfare.
Just because the M-I complex was necessary given the demands the USA had of securing the liberty of the free world, that didn't mean he had to like it.
Just showing Eisenhower was a fool for not listening to Patton, MacArthur and others who wanted to keep killing communists after Japan surrendered. Cause the status quo of rapid demilitarization which included shittcanning millions of educated Americans and demolition of production facilities done after each major war is no longer viable. As the continental United States is no longer as isolated untouchable island where nobody in the Old World had the logistical means to cross the oceans with sufficient manpower and equipment without their neighbors trying to fuck them back home. Failing that land for time to rearm, retrained
As seen during WWII CONUS is now reachable by air and later by missile after the Korean War. Especially after he hand delivered Cuba to the Soviets.
 
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India is probably thinking of buying from US from now on, but that's going to cost money and time, which they probably don't really have right now especially the latter. With China increasingly going autistic with their military, India have to match them as well. But again, switching to US toys takes money and time, so their best bet right now is keeping their Russian stuff supplied and maintained
India's been making moves to swap to local production for stuff like tanks. Its uh... not exactly gone too well.

EDIT: @Uranus Pink Your remark about me is absolutely bullshit as IIRC I've posted things up before about the effects of the post-war demobilization on US readiness. And yes, there was an absolute M-I alignment forming, and I suggest you look into Curtis LeMay to find out just who was driving it. The man actively pushed for all the branches to be gutted so his US Air Force would be the ones in charge, and he had zero qualms about allying himself with big money contractors to help him do so.

EDIT 2: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolt_of_the_Admirals Shit was getting real even before the Korean War.
 
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Yeah that's been brought up before when people keep mentioning this weird idea that the Russkies, chinks and Pajeets are going to enter some weird tripartite esque pact.


I'm not sure I entirely agree with this. The biggest issue is India is massively, massively reliant on Russian arms. Something like 2/3 of their arms imports over the last 20 years are Russian, and anywhere between 60-85% of their shit is now of Russian origin (meaning it's generally dependent on Russian supplies for spare parts/maintenence etc). I'm sure India would like American support to stand off the Chinks, but if worst comes to worst they could manage without it given the terrain etc. What they couldn't manage without is all their military shit. Unless American/the West makes some sort of insanely generous offers to help India rearm with western made shit the literally cannot afford to turn away from Russia to any meaningful extent.
India is the easiest to deal with from America's point of view. And it doesn't require any public sanctions. (granted not that the current administration would ever do this) Simply suspend the H1B Visa program. Following the Pandemic and the current global turmoil, simply suspend the importation of any further HiB's, and let existing ones expire and depart. Then sit back and watch the fun.
 
India is the easiest to deal with from America's point of view. And it doesn't require any public sanctions. (granted not that the current administration would ever do this) Simply suspend the H1B Visa program. Following the Pandemic and the current global turmoil, simply suspend the importation of any further HiB's, and let existing ones expire and depart. Then sit back and watch the fun.
Won't happen as the businesses using H1B Visa program have it in their interest to keep the cheap labor coming in and will step up the campaign contributions to their pet congress critters to prevent suspension.
 
I'm not sure I entirely agree with this. The biggest issue is India is massively, massively reliant on Russian arms. Something like 2/3 of their arms imports over the last 20 years are Russian, and anywhere between 60-85% of their shit is now of Russian origin (meaning it's generally dependent on Russian supplies for spare parts/maintenence etc). I'm sure India would like American support to stand off the Chinks, but if worst comes to worst they could manage without it given the terrain etc. What they couldn't manage without is all their military shit. Unless American/the West makes some sort of insanely generous offers to help India rearm with western made shit the literally cannot afford to turn away from Russia to any meaningful extent.
I can see that but Russia is at the mercy of China now even more than ever. If they sent arms to India in a potential war, it'll piss the Chinese off and they'll rescind any economic relief with the sanctions. The Indians would have to pull in support from America, which are getting closer in ties diplomatically and militarily. While the Indians want Russian weapons and oil, the Russians wouldn't be able to give their support to India in the case of an invasion from China, which is why I can see India turning to the US if they gave them an offer they can't refuse.
 
Everything in Russia has always been depressing.

Anyone that has ever interacted with any person living in Russia in their life can tell that life over there has always been depressing and how the whole place is just a shithole full of mean people and retards, Russians will always tell you how much living in Russia sucks but they'll also go on about how their military is amazing and how cool the soldiers are.

And then they lost that one thing they had to boast about their country: the idea of their might.

At first, it was kinda funny to see Russia stumble around Ukraine not being able to take over a super small third world shithole for the longest time I thought that Russia was the new war machine of the world, the one thing that could beat America and any country of the world that dared to oppose them... and then, this Invasion happened and it results that Russia was weak all along, it results that their army is not as super-advanced as I thought, those talks of "super-advanced military technology" resulted to be nothing more than bluffing.

It's almost depressing to know that Russia, which prided itself on being the biggest and meanest country in the world, has been outed as nothing but a paper tiger.

It's almost depressing, but it's undoubtedly hilarious.
To be fair, that's because their country is run by oligarchs and their buddies who suck the nation dry of money and resources while doing little to develop a genuine economy that doesn't just rely on oil money and inflation. All the rich oligarchs and their friends have mansions and villas far away from Russia; in the UK, France, the Americas, so it's not like their actions of turning the country into a zombie nation was going to bite them........until now. Can't believe I'm saying this, but I do root for the hippies who are seizing Russian oligarch mansions and their wealth.

For all its flaws, the Russia of the Tsarist days was genuinely strong. It defeated the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth back when they were still a superpower, it became a contemporary of other great powers like Austria, Prussia, France, Spain, and Great Britain, and its support was practically the only reason why Britain and France didn't immediately collapse fighting Germany in WW1. But ever since the Soviet days, they've been on a downturn, Russia went from the hardass kid at school to being famous for flopping at economics, from Lenin relying on the New Economic Policy to Stalin starving millions of Ukrainians to death. In the 50s-80s, they were basically the cheap, tyrannical knockoff of America that wasn't as wealthy and could barely compete. The Soviet Union collapsed just as the Communist Party was growing more and more corrupt; and once it did collapse, they can finally stop pretending that they care for the common man as they went from Communist party-men to capitalist monopoly-men.

Modern Russia's military weakness is a reflection of its weakness as a society. Whenever people complain about problems, the government ignores them and the media downplays any protests while reminding the people that they're still a superpower that can scare America. When in reality, they're more along the lines of a banana republic with lots of oil and nukes, and the fact that they can't afford much of the high-end stuff that their engineers design is proof of it. The nation isn't making money from taxing a healthy, economically-vibrant people, they're just living off oil money as their populace wallows in old Commie-blocs and apartment complexes that somehow became even worse than the Soviet era. It's a land of cold, slow decay, and Russia's moves to reassert its power and its constant propaganda are two things that the Russian leaders use to try and deny the inevitable collapse of Russia, a collapse they caused.

You do realize China has US by the balls and this is big right? Who controls your medicine, for example? Oh, the chinese. I'm sure US doesn't trade with India at all, though. Oh? 9th biggest partner of US? Huh. The fact that Russia can bypass the sanctions via India and China is not good, and it is nowhere as easy to counter as you claim.
Oh, about that.....

America can easily go to another country to produce the medicine, or produce it here. They only work with China because it's cheap. Also, most of China's business is with the US and its allies, so if they're cut off from that, their major source of revenue disappears, while the west can find some other banana republic to make the cheap toys that their kids break. And India needs the US as an ally against China, not to mention they do a lot of business with US allies in Asia. And again, India will never enter into friendship with China against America, as they literally are having their own fucking border war with China right now. If India buys more guns from Russia, and Russia agrees, it'll be Russian bullets killing Chinese border troops, which would anger China and cause them to withdraw from aiding Russia.

Go around the sanctions.
India isn't wealthy enough to compensate for it, and the more Russia relies on China to bypass the sanctions, the more they become Northern China.
 
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I don't recall when Russia defeated the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth 1 v. 1 unless it was that time they gangraped it together with the Germans. Similarly, it wasn't really Russia keeping Germany from defeating France and Britain, it was more the other way around since both the British and the French sent insane amounts of material to Russia since they shat the bed with logistics against Germany (sound familiar?). Many of the Soviet Union's flaws were cancers inherited from imperial Russia.

As for India, I see American attempts to make them a counterbalance to China ending up the same way as when the US tried to butter up China in the 70s. I have a strong suspicion that they wouldn't count out backstabbing the West if the Chinese make them a better offer. They have a massive inferiority/butthurt complex just like the Chinese and it informs many of their decisions. Also India recently became pissed at Russia after a bunch of Russian filmmakers promoted by the state made a film about the horrific shit India is doing in Kashmir.
 
I don't recall when Russia defeated the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth 1 v. 1 unless it was that time they gangraped it together with the Germans. Similarly, it wasn't really Russia keeping Germany from defeating France and Britain, it was more the other way around since both the British and the French sent insane amounts of material to Russia since they shat the bed with logistics against Germany (sound familiar?). Many of the Soviet Union's flaws were cancers inherited from imperial Russia.
They halted the Polish-Lithuanian advance into Moscow, back when the latter was still a superpower. And to be fair, the Western Allies needed Russia just as much as the Russians needed the Allies. if the Russians were neutral in WW1 (or if they sided with the Germans as they previously did before Wilhelm II took the reins of power) WW1 would have ended rather quickly with a resounding German victory. The Soviets introduced more cancers that even Imperial Russia didn't have, such as spending God knows how much taxpayer money trying to compete and keep up with the west, when they should be dealing with their own problems first.

As for India, I see American attempts to make them a counterbalance to China ending up the same way as when the US tried to butter up China in the 70s. I have a strong suspicion that they wouldn't count out backstabbing the West if the Chinese make them a better offer. They have a massive inferiority/butthurt complex just like the Chinese and it informs many of their decisions. Also India recently became pissed at Russia after a bunch of Russian filmmakers promoted by the state made a film about the horrific shit India is doing in Kashmir.
China and India would likely remain enemies, and no offer would be good enough for them. Mainly because America is a distant power while China is an aggressive neighbor. The only offer China can make to appease India is to demilitarize their border with India, but that would make Xi Jinping look weak, which he obviously wouldn't want to do.
 
I don't think India thinks they need the US to fight China, they already beat them in a skirmish.

India has helicopter elephants. If that isn't enough to beat China, nothing is.
 

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Everything in Russia has always been depressing.

Anyone that has ever interacted with any person living in Russia in their life can tell that life over there has always been depressing and how the whole place is just a shithole full of mean people and retards, Russians will always tell you how much living in Russia sucks but they'll also go on about how their military is amazing and how cool the soldiers are.

And then they lost that one thing they had to boast about their country: the idea of their might.

At first, it was kinda funny to see Russia stumble around Ukraine not being able to take over a super small third world shithole for the longest time I thought that Russia was the new war machine of the world, the one thing that could beat America and any country of the world that dared to oppose them... and then, this Invasion happened and it results that Russia was weak all along, it results that their army is not as super-advanced as I thought, those talks of "super-advanced military technology" resulted to be nothing more than bluffing.

It's almost depressing to know that Russia, which prided itself on being the biggest and meanest country in the world, has been outed as nothing but a paper tiger.

It's almost depressing, but it's undoubtedly hilarious.
Amazon did an eight part series called The Ramanoffs. Episode 7 titled The End of the Line gives a very interesting viewpoint on Russia and the way things are there.
I would highly recommend watching it.
 

Interesting, and I believe accurate, take on the current status of the war.

Russia's initial campaign has failed in it's objectives. They are getting bogged down and this is likely to result in something of a stalemate.

In my opinion, a stalemate is a losing position for Russia. Besides raiding their backlines, Militia - and likely most of their reservists - are primarily going to be used defensively. If this becomes a stalemate, Ukraine is going to be able to take a lot of these volunteers and train them up to a professional standard in the West of Ukraine which is unthreatened and very large. Plus, from what can be seen the ability of Ukraine to supply and keep supplied it's cities and soldiers is better than Russia. Partly due to them having much shorter lines of supply, none of which runs through hostile country filled with RPGs, AK47s and angry people.

Further to this, while the Russia "strategy" of bombarding a city into surrender works if you amass all your forces against the likes of Grozny, it is not something they are going to be capable of doing across all of Ukraine with sufficient strength to induce a surrender. Maruipol is an example of this, despite being isolated for nearly 3 weeks, despite being outnumbered and bombed into the ground they are continuing to resist. Yes, they are going to fall eventually - but those Russia soldiers have been successfully tied down, exhausted and sustained significant losses. They are not going to be much use on the offensive here after.

There have also been reports that Russia soldiers are engaging in self-mutilation to avoid being sent in to fight, as well as severe shortages of basically everything for Russian troops at the front. Is this really an army that is going to be able to engage in grinding attritional warfare, against a highly motivated Ukrainian military with the full backing of the civilian population, effectively?

They invaded with some 200k soldiers. The fatality figures are between 7-14k, at this point I would not be surprised if the Ukrainian figures were somewhat close to the truth - but we will never know. Take into account fatality-casualty ratios, you can add at the very minimum another 2 times the number of deaths, probably 3 or more though, as casualties. So what, they could be short 30-60k of their original invasion force. Added to this, most of the losses would be sustained by their combat arms, their infantry, paratroopers, marines as they would have been in the thick of it. Even if Russia do want to reinforce them, they have already committed 75% of their high readiness units. Throwing in more with the fucked up logistics would probably achieve little, throwing in their lower quality soldiers would achieve only their deaths.


Also, cool video of Azov IFV taking on a tank and a Russian IFV up close and fucking them with it's 30mm.
 
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