War Invasion of Ukraine News Megathread - Thread is only for articles and discussion of articles, general discussion thread is still in Happenings.

President Joe Biden on Tuesday said that the United States will impose sanctions “far beyond” the ones that the United States imposed in 2014 following the annexation of the Crimean peninsula.

“This is the beginning of a Russian invasion of Ukraine,” Biden said in a White House speech, signaling a shift in his administration’s position. “We will continue to escalate sanctions if Russia escalates,” he added.

Russian elites and their family members will also soon face sanctions, Biden said, adding that “Russia will pay an even steeper price” if Moscow decides to push forward into Ukraine. Two Russian banks and Russian sovereign debt will also be sanctioned, he said.

Also in his speech, Biden said he would send more U.S. troops to the Baltic states as a defensive measure to strengthen NATO’s position in the area.

Russia shares a border with Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania.

A day earlier, Russian President Vladimir Putin ordered troops to go into the separatist Donetsk and Lugansk regions in eastern Ukraine after a lengthy speech in which he recognized the two regions’ independence.

Western powers decried the move and began to slap sanctions on certain Russian individuals, while Germany announced it would halt plans to go ahead with the Russia-to-Germany Nord Stream 2 pipeline.

At home, Biden is facing bipartisan pressure to take more extensive actions against Russia following Putin’s decision. However, a recent poll showed that a majority of Americans believe that sending troops to Ukraine is a “bad idea,” and a slim minority believes it’s a good one.

All 27 European Union countries unanimously agreed on an initial list of sanctions targeting Russian authorities, said French Foreign Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian, and EU foreign affairs head Josep Borell claimed the package “will hurt Russia … a lot.”

Earlier Tuesday, Borell asserted that Russian troops have already entered the Donbas region, which comprises Donetsk and Lugansk, which are under the control of pro-Russia groups since 2014.

And on Tuesday, the Russian Parliament approved a Putin-back plan to use military force outside of Russia’s borders as Putin further said that Russia confirmed it would recognize the expanded borders of Lugansk and Donetsk.

“We recognized the states,” the Russian president said. “That means we recognized all of their fundamental documents, including the constitution, where it is written that their [borders] are the territories at the time the two regions were part of Ukraine.”

Speaking to reporters on Tuesday, Putin said that Ukraine is “not interested in peaceful solutions” and that “every day, they are amassing troops in the Donbas.”

Meanwhile, Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelensky on Tuesday morning again downplayed the prospect of a Russian invasion and proclaimed: “There will be no war.”

“There will not be an all-out war against Ukraine, and there will not be a broad escalation from Russia. If there is, then we will put Ukraine on a war footing,” he said in a televised address.

The White House began to signal that they would shift their own position on whether it’s the start of an invasion.

“We think this is, yes, the beginning of an invasion, Russia’s latest invasion into Ukraine,” said Jon Finer, the White House deputy national security adviser in public remarks. “An invasion is an invasion and that is what is underway.”

For weeks, Western governments have been claiming Moscow would invade its neighbor after Russia gathered some 150,000 troops along the countries’ borders. They alleged that the Kremlin would attempt to come up with a pretext to attack, while some officials on Monday said Putin’s speech recognizing the two regions was just that.

But Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin told reporters Tuesday that Russia’s “latest invasion” of Ukraine is threatening stability in the region, but he asserted that Putin can “still avoid a full blown, tragic war of choice.”

Article

 

[Considered HARMful]

No you are not. You are focusing your ire on NATO and the west when most of the problems were caused by Russia.

Sorry, I'm not going to get involved into the "who's more to blame" game, because frankly I don't know that. I see all sides as so overwhelmingly awful that it's hard for me to evaluate sensibly. And the more history I learn, the less I'm able to make the evaluation due to sheer corruption peddling from each side of the aisle.

And I already explained about ~2 posts back when someone accused me of shitting one-way only. But that was a long post that you negrated probably less than a minute after it was published, so I understand you might've not have noticed the relevant part.

Oh, that's adorable sophistry.

No, it's not, but I see you're entrenched on your position, so I'm not going to discuss this further.

Homer Simpson: just because I don't care doesn't mean that I don't understand it.
Considered HARMful: just because I understand it doesn't mean I endorse it.

NATO was not a threat to Russia until this war began.

This actually I will address.

Stating unequivocally that NATO was not a threat to Russia is exactly this lack of understanding, or what some call "strategic empathy" that lays at the root of the East-West divide that is currently happening.

First of all, Russia is a very historically-minded nation. The memory of WW2 and actual Nazism is still very much alive and cultivated there. You can call it a historic paranoia if you want, I'm not going to protest that because I'm seeing very similar historic paranoia in political system of Poland with regards to both Russia and Germany.

But why does it matter? Because the plains of Ukraine were one of the main routes of invasion during both world wars and creating buffer states was a longstanding principle of Russian (and then - Soviet) rulers. I understand perfectly well why my own country was utterly raped by Russia so many times, that actual historians have trouble counting all of them. I understand perfectly well that Poland's partition in 1939 was based in Realpolitik - Stalin knew that war with Germany was inevitable and the point was to buy time and buffer space. This was arguably also the reason for Winter War with Finland.

And now you're seeing that historical paranoia being lit up by encroachment of Western military alliance just up your borders. If NATO is "defensive", why the expansion? Note that's not what I am saying. If you have issues with that, don't argue with me, I'm just presenting what the other side is saying.

Try for a moment to internalize that history and that dread.

Second of all, Russia was being lied to over and over again on the issue of NATO expansion to the east. Gorbachov was issued spoken promises (not written! that's why Putin [a lawyer BTW] is so autistic on insisting on actual signed treaties) that if he were to greenlight Germany reunification and NATO membership, the NATO would not expand "one inch east". Didn't work so well.

Then there came about the issue of USA withdrawing from ABM treaty in 2001. There were also talks (though I can't remember when, from the top of my head) that anti-ballistic missile pads were to be deployed in Poland, purportedly for defense against Iran's ballistic missiles, which sounds ludicrous. Russia even proposed USA to develop and operate the defense together, but was turned down.

This are not even all the important data points and they have already fueled the paranoia enough.

Once again, you may not agree with that paranoidal perception and don't take it as my endorsement of these points of view, but that is what it is and refusal to sensibly address these perceptions will further fuel the paranoia.

Russia had no reason to start this war; they were on the verge of making the EU and Biden look like fools until they invaded. Now they look like the fools, Zelensky has become a hero to many in the globe, and the Left was proven to be correct about Russia being up to no good.

They had plenty reasons in their minds, as I described above, but you disagree with the sensibleness of those reasons. For the record, I do too and I wholeheartedly agree with your words here.

The USA fueled the "coup" against the pro-Russian Ukraine government because it was the right thing to do.

I disagree about it being "the right thing", but I'd like to read your take on that issue. I've changed my mind many times on this complicated topic and might as well change it again.

Said puppet regime was against the will of the Ukrainians, whereas we can see by the zeal of the Ukrainian defenders that they support the pro-western regime that exists there now.

Was against the will of significant part of the Ukrainians, I agree with that, but then the argument becomes symmetrical: whereas we can see by the zeal of Donbas defenders that they stood up against the pro-western regime all that time. And to preempt: I do believe they were extensively supported by Russian materiel, volunteers and possibly mercenaries, yet that does not mean they were not heavily against what they viewed (again, this is not my endorsement of that view) an illegitimate government.

People much smarter than me have elegantly described how the ethnic composition of Ukraine changes on the East-West axis and how it lies at the basis of this conflict.

Again, you conflating NATO influence with Russian influence

Where am I doing that?

Again, not all perspectives are equal. Especially since not all perspectives rely on facts.

I agree, but try to argue facts against someone who is paranoid. It is not me you're arguing against, I believe I understand your position as much as I understand the Donbas separatists and/or Russian position.

 

[The Demon Pimp of Razgriz]

@Considered HARMful

If you're going to use terms like "cognitive dissonance" you damn well better know what they actually mean. Or people will call you out on it.

The bolded part was not what you've written before

Because it wasn't necessary. NATO's purpose is as a defensive alliance. That's it. It was originally to defend against the Soviet Union. A secondary function was to ensure that there would no more wars in Europe. It still continues to function for the latter reason. But ultimately its neither here nor there. Russia's invasion of Ukraine has shown exactly why NATO is necessary.

• What European war did NATO prevent from happening, if any? I know this is asking to prove a negative, but do you see a potential past flashpoint that didn't erupt into conflict because of NATO existence?

Has WWIII happened yet? That's the war it prevented. In fact, there has been no major continent spanning European War since WWII. The Yugoslav Wars specifically happened outside the reach of NATO, in the collapsing former Yugoslavia. But there have been no wars between Russia/the Soviet Union and the rest of Europe, no wars between France and Germany, no wars in Western, Northern, and Central Europe at all since NATO's founding. Russia is invading Ukraine specifically because it isn't a member of NATO and thus could invade Ukraine without risk of NATO coming to its direct aid. This war is only possible because NATO doesn't cover the entire continent.

• What do interventions in Afghanistan and Libya have to do with Europe? To preempt: I don't believe that NATO existence in those countries did any good to stem the flow of terrorism into Europe, quite the opposite in my opinion.

The initial invasion of Afghanistan was not a NATO operation. Several non-NATO countries, like Australia and New Zealand, were involved in the invasion, and it wasn't only NATO countries. All NATO members later contributed to the International Security Assistance Force, which was a U.N. military mission, and NATO led its successor, the Resolute Support Mission, but in both cases, NATO was primarily supporting the United States, its main benefactor and one of only two nations (the other being Poland) that was even meeting its Alliance obligations, while also carrying out their duties to the U.N. in regards to peacekeeping. NATO's intervention in Libya was to carry out a U.N. Security Council resolution. And NATO weren't the only ones enforcing it either. NATO, being a military alliance, already functions well in these types of situations, because the mechanisms for international coordination are already built in.

Please answer the question.

I did answer your question. If you can't see how suspicious everything is regarding the release of the phone call transcript is, its either because you're an idiot, or you are being willfully ignorant. I'm not going to explain to you, nor should I have to, how an enemy state, releasing an intercepted excerpt from a phone call, in an obvious attempt to damage its enemies, is suspicious.

And it's a pretty lengthy piece to be called a "small excerpt".

The relative size of the excerpt is irrelevant. What's relevant is that is an excerpt at all. The phone call, for all we know, could have been hours long.

This is special pleading. I don't believe that Ukraine is any less corrupt than Russia.

Note that Ukraine isn't part of NATO, so your point is moot.

I never said anything about CIA and I don't have any solid opinion in CIA involvement (meaning: direct action, not just intelligence gathering) in those matters.

No, but the other guy did, and since you jumped into our conversation, I can only assume you feel the same way. And if you didn't feel that way, why are you even commenting?

 

[дядя Боря]

You have some links about the Ukraine movement? I have just read about the US Intel briefing (an off-camera one), and I'm surprised Ukraine is already in a condition to take back some territories. I thought they wouldn't be able to do that for another week

from my telegram channels, they have attacked, went back, now today supposably cut off russian troops in Irpen and Bucha from resupply. Russians are more active with drones and probably doing recon on possible targets.


On another note, some people noticed Russian troops changing into Ukrainian boots:

also one captured colonel supposedly had underwear and socks issued to Ukrainian military.

the weather is warming up but staying warm in the a cold field will probably result in a lot of frost bitten feet. Small things like that make a difference.

 

[Useful_Mistake]

TikToker arrested after posting clip of Ukrainian military vehicles parked near a mall that Russia later blew up​

• Russian forces blew up a shopping mall on the outskirts of Kyiv on Sunday.
• 
  
• Ukraine's Security Service said it arrested a TikToker who filmed military vehicles by the mall.
• 
  
• Officials have urged Ukrainians not to share footage of military movement in case it helps Russia.

A Ukrainian man was arrested after posting a TikTok video of military vehicles parked near a shopping mall that was later blown up by Russians.

On Sunday, Russian forces struck a shopping mall on the northwestern outskirts of Kyiv, killing eight people, Reuters reported. The day after, the Security Service of Ukraine posted a video of the man apologizing.

"A TikToker recently posted on the internet about the location of the Ukrainian military in Kyiv," the Security Service said.

It continued: "Later, the shopping center, where our defenders were, was subjected to a powerful missile strike by the Russian occupiers.

"Knowingly or unknowingly, this man worked as a corrector for the enemy — an investigation will be established."

In the Security Service's video, the man identified himself as Artemev Pavel Alexandrevich and said he was a resident of Kyiv.

He said he posted a TikTok showing the movement of Ukrainian military equipment near the shopping mall, and he urged people to "not put stuff on TikTok."

It's unclear when exactly Alexandrevich posted the TikTok. The Russian news outlet Pravda reported that he posted it on February 24, the day of the Russian invasion.

Ukrainian officials have been warning citizens to refrain from posting footage of Ukrainian military movement on social media in case it helps Russian forces with their targets.

After the shopping-mall bombing, Kyiv Mayor Vitali Klitschko urged residents not to share footage "of the movement of military equipment, checkpoints, strategic objects."

Russia's defense ministry said on Monday that it targeted the "nonfunctioning" shopping mall because it was being used as a "store of ammunition" and rockets by Ukrainian forces, Sky News reported.

It's unclear whether Ukrainian forces used the shopping mall to store military equipment.

Kyiv locals told The Guardian that Ukrainian forces were using the entire area as a base because it was only a few miles away from the neighboring town Irpin, where Russian forces are stationed.

https://archive.ph/e4ONK

Russian newspaper blames army death toll report on hackers​

A Russian newspaper has accused hackers of planting fake news on its website after a report briefly appeared there saying nearly 10,000 Russian soldiers had been killed in Ukraine.

The incident marked the second apparent breach within a week of the tightly controlled war narrative that the Kremlin promotes through loyal Russian media.

An online article on the site of mass-market paper Komsomolskaya Pravda, still accessible via a web archive tool, quotes the Russian defence ministry as saying 9,861 Russian servicemen have been killed and 16,153 wounded in what Moscow calls its special military operation in Ukraine.


Those figures had been removed from a version of the same article visible on the website on Tuesday.

Instead, an advisory said: "On March 21, access to the administrator interface was hacked on the Komsomolskaya Pravda website and a fake insert was made in this publication about the situation around the special operation in Ukraine. The inaccurate information was immediately removed."

Russia has not officially updated its casualty figures since stating on March 2 that 498 servicemen had been killed and 1,597 wounded. Since then its offensive has run into further heavy resistance from Ukraine's army and volunteer defence forces.


Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov told reporters on a conference call on Tuesday that he could not comment on the incident with Komsomolskaya Pravda, saying it was a question for the newspaper. He said he had no information on casualty figures.

Alexander Gamov, a Kremlin correspondent for the paper, said on the same call that its website had been hacked and fake information had appeared there for several minutes.


Earlier, Ukrainian presidential adviser Mykhailo Podolyak drew attention to the two online versions of the newspaper article and the alleged figure of 9,861 Russian deaths.

"This is only the beginning of the realisation of their national catastrophe. Because in the real world there are almost twice as many as Russians killed," Podolyak wrote on Telegram.

It was not possible to independently verify any of the purported casualty claims.

Komsomsolskya Pravda is among Russian media which have loyally followed President Vladimir Putin's line that Moscow is pursuing a special operation in Ukraine to demilitarise and "denazify" the country - an argument rejected by Ukraine and the West as a false pretext to invade a democratic country.

Last week, an editor at Channel One state TV news appeared live in the studio for several seconds shouting anti-war slogans and holding a "NO WAR" poster during an evening news show. The woman, Marina Ovsyannikova, was fined 30,000 roubles ($280) by a court, after the Kremlin denounced her protest as "hooliganism".

https://archive.ph/swkky

 

[Considered HARMful]

If you're going to use terms like "cognitive dissonance" you damn well better know what they actually mean. Or people will call you out on it.

Go ahead.

Russia's invasion of Ukraine has shown exactly why NATO is necessary.

Russia's POV is that existence and encroachment of NATO has shown why the invasion was necessary. This is not my opinion.

Has WWIII happened yet? That's the war it prevented. In fact, there has been no major continent spanning European War since WWII. [...]
But there have been no wars between Russia/the Soviet Union and the rest of Europe, no wars between France and Germany, no wars in Western, Northern, and Central Europe at all since NATO's founding.

Why does it have to be World War all at once? There was a Turkish invasion of Greek Cyprus in..1974 I think? Doesn't seem like both countries being in NATO stopped them from doing their dirty political ploys and coups.

Are you going to wiggle out of it because that was not a some big apocalyptic general war, so it's a-ok? Is there a specified criterion when some wars count and some don't? Does it not count because you mentioned Western, Northern and Central Europe and skipped Southern?

The Yugoslav Wars specifically happened outside the reach of NATO, in the collapsing former Yugoslavia.

Yet NATO felt somehow obliged to intervene. How was that defensive?

Russia is invading Ukraine specifically because it isn't a member of NATO and thus could invade Ukraine without risk of NATO coming to its direct aid.

Semi-agree, I have my doubts if NATO were to come to aid of the Ukraine. I think there would be some slimy wiggling out because "internal matters" or something. But this is in the realm of political fiction obviously.

This war is only possible because NATO doesn't cover the entire continent.

This is a dangerously totalizing view. Besides, if so then again: why don't invite Russia into NATO?

The initial invasion of Afghanistan was not a NATO operation. [...] NATO's intervention in Libya was to carry out a U.N. Security Council resolution.

Initiality is irrelevant. How is that a) defensive b) European? C'mon, those were your words, not mine!

I did answer your question. If you can't see how suspicious everything is regarding the release of the phone call transcript is, its either because you're an idiot, or you are being willfully ignorant. I'm not going to explain to you, nor should I have to, how an enemy state, releasing an intercepted excerpt from a phone call, in an obvious attempt to damage its enemies, is suspicious.

Seriously?!

"My enemy is using a weapon against me and that's suspicious".

Motherfucker, I'd fully expect Russians to exploit that stuff to kingdom come and back! How is that suspicious? If anything is suspicious is that this transcript didn't gain further traction!

The relative size of the excerpt is irrelevant. What's relevant is that is an excerpt at all. The phone call, for all we know, could have been hours long.

Sure! But we don't know how small of an excerpt it is nor what might possibly be any further context that would change its meaning 180 degrees, yet you flow on such speculations as if were enough to dismiss all of it without noticing how the content of that conversation came to fruition some months (or weeks?) later AND without Department of State denying any part of if. This contortionist para-logic reminds me of another poster who tied himself into a pretzel "proving" that Hunter Biden laptop was a fake or a psyops or whatever

I asked you already: let your imagination flow, what could there be missing that changes the meaning completely? Be as ridiculous as you want, for example: Nuland saying "let's say this damaging stuff, the Russians will crop it, release it and try to smear us and then we'll come out and say that we're only pretending to be retarded".

Note that Ukraine isn't part of NATO, so your point is moot.

And yet the talk is about Ukraine ascending into NATO, and now suddenly the corruption you mentioned becomes non-issue? Dude, I get that we'll disagree and that's fine, but let's at least keep some consistency.

And you conveniently forgot Poland Albania. And I personally think Montenegro is no less fishy.

No, but the other guy did, and since you jumped into our conversation, I can only assume you feel the same way. And if you didn't feel that way, why are you even commenting?

Look, it's not my fault you're conflating people and mind-reading to boot.

 

[SBG]

ultimately, the cause is concentrating enormous amount of power in the hands of one man and his closest circle, by abandoning checks and balances, by descending into tyranny thanks to complacent and dumb population of Russia, who can't see the bleak future.

the cause is Western politicians getting entangled and bought out with stolen money, becoming too dependent on kickbacks to the detriment of their independence. The issue is weak leadership responding with superficial sanctions of 2014 that were as much of a joke as Germany's 5000 used helmets help. Shroeder leaving gasprom's boardmembership will not set things right.

Now it's war. Trillions of dollars down the drain in destroyed infrastructure, factories. There is no magic solution to the financial shit show that's coming, but it was coming sure as hell. Some countries got cheap gas, some people got off seeing a "stronk" tyrant, time to pay up for the guilty pleasure.

The sanctions is pretty much the only response West can mount in it's defense now. Ukraine is just one chess board square. Be glad that Russian army is getting reduced elsewhere, by someone else. If Kyiv would fall in a couple of days, as everyone expected it to, the next squares would be Baltics and Poland. Russia has been very clear about it from the start.

And please hold your ... but they are in NATO and this time we are DEFINITELY coming to help. You won't. Russia could swallow Estonia in half a day and have even better justifications for it. West has no balls to start a nuke war. Shit, West had no balls until Russian tanks started to burn. And West still has no stomach for thousands dead either. 9/11 ... this is war in Ukraine every week.

I'd like to think Russia continuing invasions in places like Poland or Estonia or anywhere else would be ridiculously impossible, but I also thought it was ridiculously impossible that Russia would invade Ukraine. So it seems like everyone has to abandon the notion Putin was a rational actor in all this.

It's like watching a slow motion car wreck.

Meanwhile there is a audio clip some are saying is of an intercepted phone call (obtained by the SBU) from a Russian soldier.

And a twitter user claims to have translated it.

 

[Astro Galactic Megalul]

Chechen Sheikh Mansur volunteer battalion engaging Russian forces

 

[cybertoaster]

As the noose tightens around Russia's neck I'm thinking that the use of a low-yield tactical nuke its no longer a matter of 'if' but 'when and where'.

Nuking a city would be a major fuckup both abroad and within Russia, even the biggest putin shills would've trouble justifying it. On the other hand hitting a Ukrainian military base would avoid that while still sending the message that they are not gonna pull any punches.

If that base is near the polish border it would also send a strong signal to NATO, but it would be playing with fire, specially if the missile misses and explodes on the other side.

Hmmm.... I'm not sure if I really dislike Zelensky causing pressure to indirectly be put on Israel sounds entertaining to me but I doubt it's realistic and more virtue signal than anything by politicians/political sphere in the US.

The analogy is another Jan 6th like analogy and moral obligation arguments are a dangerous slope to follow.

I don't think it's the same thing. Russia isn't set up with Israel in the same way, and I utterly loathe to defend Israel, their agreement allows them (Israel) jets to enter Syria and destroy Hezbollah arm shipments. (alongisde Iranian, Lebeneze, etc. targets)


Taken from the Hill as an example:


Now my only question as I couldn't find information on it (maybe I just poorly searched for the answer?) is what does Russia get from that exchange? It also appears Russia was against the Iranian nuclear deal which led to rally with Russia in Israel, not too surprising honestly.

And before it's asked if they cut off ties to Russia that would lead to direct conflict or risk dangerous waters by having US air force enter Russian territories.

Taken from WSJ (I know I hate quoting them )





Basically Obama and Biden led directly to this issue. Not too surprising though.

The problem for Israel its that its losing moral and political support in most of Europe and among the American left. Basically people are done looking the other way at the semi-apartheid and warmongering there, for all the LGBT propaganda from tel-aviv the reality is that Israel its a very conservative xenophobic country and that goes against the current western zeitgeist. China has zero interest in siding with Israel because it would be bad for business, if anything they are very aware of the major influence israel has in the US and want to outcompete them in that, not form an alliance.

With all that, whats the other player out there?

Russia.

It also doesn't help that many oligarchs happen to be jewish and invest heavily both in Russia and Israel. Wouldn't be surprised if they are acting as lobbyists from Putin over there.

from my telegram channels, they have attacked, went back, now today supposably cut off russian troops in Irpen and Bucha from resupply. Russians are more active with drones and probably doing recon on possible targets.


On another note, some people noticed Russian troops changing into Ukrainian boots:

View attachment 3097630 View attachment 3097639

also one captured colonel supposedly had underwear and socks issued to Ukrainian military.

the weather is warming up but staying warm in the a cold field will probably result in a lot of frost bitten feet. Small things like that make a difference.

You know things are bad when you have to steal boots from the enemy, like the Germans in 1944.

 

[Thomas Talus]

@Considered_HARMful

Russia's POV is that existence and encroachment of NATO has shown why the invasion was necessary.

All Russia had to do to make NATO a non-issue was not invade their neighbors for a while. That's it! This somehow required them to invade their neighbors, though.

Russia is just closeted InternationaleHomo.

 

[NJBear]

 

[Snekposter]

Interesting bit of info regarding "separatist republics". I've heard reports that Russian forces just grabbed people off the streets there and sent them toward Ukrainian positions to die. Thousands of people, often regular men, such as teachers, mechanics and whatnot.

Probably something done by the local field commanders on their own initiative. Why have your men die for Donetsk, after all? So they just grab some guys off the street, give them some guns and a spare magazine or two, and then file a report up the chain of command stating they assembled a force of local volunteers. Their men stay alive, and they look good to their superior officers.

Not quite new as the U.S. Army have/had the Bradley Linebacker variant with quad Stinger pack instead of TOW launcher for short range AA defense. Still they have been looking for better SHORAD options like what you posted.

Linebacker didn't go anywhere since the Bradley can't handle the electronics necessary for AA work without some major internal work, whereas Stryker is modular enough its relatively easy to do, and as something designed to haul around a full combat squad as opposed to a half squad, has enough internal space to accommodate additional upgrades.

I think it's general Iran military they help, but considering how much terrorism and prone to government overthrows is possible Russia doesn't want Iran with nukes for the sole reason of having issues controlling themselves in case the wrong people get in power there. Israel is primarily targeting the terrorist targets and not the Iran government directly unless they become part of that group.

From another article I read it seems Russia has stated his (Putin's) partnership with Iran pertains to the fact he thinks he can stop the influence of "Extremist Islamic influence"/ "Radical political Islam" in Iran. He's probably well aware that Iran's government has elements of those groups in it hence his disapproval of the Iranian Nuclear Deal. (Well at least in the current moment.)

Edit: It's less that Israel is ragging on Us for making such deals and that most people don't want Iran to have that nuclear deal. It's why Trump was against it, and one of the better decisions from Russia in the last few years.

And a deal with Iran opens up Iranian oil exports to the world, which is bad for Putin's bottom line.

 

[Oats12345]

I'm currently piss off! Biden just sanction China. What ignores me was Trump did that many times and called out China alot and the media constantly attacked him for it. Where hear I bet Biden gets a bunch of praise.

 

[Considered HARMful]

@Considered_HARMful
All Russia had to do to make NATO a non-issue was not invade their neighbors for a while. That's it! This somehow required them to invade their neighbors, though.

Once again, it is not my POV.

I look at this like that:

• if you were to look a month in the past, it seems like Russia attacked Ukraine for no reason
• if you looked two months back, it seems like Russia was reacting to threat of Ukraine acquiring nuclear weapons (srsly, Zelensky spoke about it openly - has anyone actually mentioned it in this thread?)
• if you looked four months back, it seems like Germany is blocking Nord Stream 2 to spite the Russians (though they were actually cutting their own nose)
• etc. etc., repeat ad nauseam through Euromaidan, Orange Revolution, NATO expansion eastward, WW2, Russo-Polish war, WW1... Depending on whichever timepoint you want to stop, you can prove that whomever you want is on the Right Side of History and Justice™

All in all, this is a giant retarded slapfight (or a defect-defect strategy in prisoner's dillemma). You poked me, so I shoved you. You pushed me, so I punched you...

 

[SneedEyeMitch]

I'm currently piss off! Biden just sanction China. What ignores me was Trump did that many times and called out China alot and the media constantly attacked him for it. Where hear I bet Biden gets a bunch of praise.

I don't recall Trump sanctioning China but instead starting a trade war via tariffs.

 

[Oats12345]

I don't recall Trump sanctioning China but instead starting a trade war via tariffs.

No he sanction them a few times and even called out about how they treated Muslims. Yet the media were constantly attacking him for it

 

[Mr E. Grifter]

I'd like to think Russia continuing invasions in places like Poland or Estonia or anywhere else would be ridiculously impossible, but I also thought it was ridiculously impossible that Russia would invade Ukraine. So it seems like everyone has to abandon the notion Putin was a rational actor in all this.

It's like watching a slow motion car wreck.

Meanwhile there is a audio clip some are saying is of an intercepted phone call (obtained by the SBU) from a Russian soldier.

View attachment 3097832

And a twitter user claims to have translated it.

View attachment 3097833

US Intel seems to back this one up.

View attachment 3097886

I do not personally agree with this move by Zelensky, I think it's a needless misstep. However, these parties make up less than 10% of the Parliament. The main opposition isn't included, it's - allegedly - based on their having Kremlin links. Such behaviour isn't abnormal in a war, this Medhurst guy is going crazy over something that would be bad in normal times, but fuck me Ukraine is in a war of national survival. The rules are different.

 

[Vince McMahon]

low-yield tactical nuke its no longer a matter of 'if' but 'when and where'.

Kyiv.

There's a great excerpt from a Russian play called "Without a Dowry".
Karandyshev. Tell me: how do I deserve your love? (He falls on his knees). I love you, I love you.

Larissa. You lie. I have sought love and found none. They looked at me and look at me like I'm a joke. No one has ever tried to look into my soul, I have never seen sympathy from anyone, never heard a warm, heartfelt word. And it is cold to live like this. It's not my fault, I've been looking for love and I haven't found it... it's not there... there's nothing to look for. I have not found love, so I'll look for gold. Go, I cannot be yours.

Karandyshev (getting up). Oh, do not repent! (He puts his hand over the edge of his coat.) You must be mine.

Larissa. Whoever's to be, but not yours.

Karandyshev (fiercely). Not mine?

Larissa. Never!

Karandyshev. So then nobody will have you! (Shoots a pistol at her)

 

[Mewtwo_Rain]

I'm currently piss off! Biden just sanction China. What ignores me was Trump did that many times and called out China alot and the media constantly attacked him for it. Where hear I bet Biden gets a bunch of praise.

Of course the left and media praise Biden because his actions are going to be met with retaliation from China which will currently hurt the US economy, I bet the news media are ecstatic about the possibility of collapsing the US economy even further. Bastards. The insane thing this could drive China to Russia even closer and push us closer to a world war... This is fully intentional and insane.

 

[Oats12345]

Of course the left and media praise Biden because his actions are going to be met with retaliation from China which will currently hurt the US economy, I bet the news media are ecstatic about the possibility of collapsing the US economy even further. Bastards. The insane thing this could drive China to Russia even closer and push us closer to a world war... This is fully intentional and insane.

Yeah I am worry about the economic impact since the U.S relies alot on China saddly. Also this could make China help Russia on Ukraine.

 

[SBG]

I'm currently piss off! Biden just sanction China. What ignores me was Trump did that many times and called out China alot and the media constantly attacked him for it. Where hear I bet Biden gets a bunch of praise.

The double standards can be pretty irritating. Hell a lot of the immigration changes Trump got in via redefining rules for various visas haven't been able to be reversed and while those immigration restrictions got Trump all sorts of criticism the media largely went silent about it becoming just the way things are under Biden. Had Sarah Silverman for instance crying about kid's in cages and then getting apologetic for Biden over the same thing happening.

Show how much of politics is people treating it as team sports. Which to get back to Ukraine it seems to happen frequently with the panic over NAZIS with the left and right each doing a 180 on them and the left now treating it as no big deal (or something pointless to focus on) while some on the far right cry about how awful it is to support those NAZIS.