While I am somewhat sympathetic to that view, just remember you said that the next time some of your countries captured soldiers get treated brutally in whatever war or peacekeeping op they take part in. Hell, if you're an American, ask yourself what you thought when you saw insurgents murder and torture captured us forces.
Atrocities can have some value to an insurgency, as they make the enemy angry and cause them use more brutal tactics, which then radicalizes the population against the invading force. Of course, this means that Ukraine is already resorting to basic terrorist tactics, and are giving up on the idea of behaving like a military. That's fine, it was going to happen sooner or later. Hopefully (for the Ukrainian civilian population if no one else) Russia has decent military strategy to deal with terrorist insurgents rather than becoming hot headed and going for indiscriminate destruction.
Putin didn't invade Ukraine all by himself. It took a literal army of people able and willing to go along with his design. Any and all of those people are endowed with their own will and are ultimately responsible for the choices they make.
I wonder how many of them would go back and do things differently if they knew they'd end up crippled for the remainder of their days however long that ends up being. Surely even Russian prison looks better.
Oh I still think the Ukes are the good guys in all of this. They didn't create the circumstances they're currently mired in. They're just trying their best to dig their way out as a free people. I just don't give a fuck about the fate of captured Russian invaders. Don't fuck around and you won't find out.
Yeah, don't come back outraged when Ukrainian POWs are suddenly getting shot or tortured. You treat prisoners like shit then don't be surprised to be treated like shit.
Yeah, don't come back outraged when Ukrainian POWs are suddenly getting shot or tortured. You treat prisoners like shit then don't be surprised to be treated like shit.
Atrocities can have some value to an insurgency, as they make the enemy angry and cause them use more brutal tactics, which then radicalizes the population against the invading force. Of course, this means that Ukraine is already resorting to basic terrorist tactics, and are giving up on the idea of behaving like a military. That's fine, it was going to happen sooner or later. Hopefully (for the Ukrainian civilian population if no one else) Russia has decent military strategy to deal with terrorist insurgents rather than becoming hot headed and going for indiscriminate destruction.
Tbh this isn't really "resorting" to these tactics for them. Eastern European countries have a vastly different definition of acceptable conduct in war. It would be more surprising if nobody was doing this actually. Of course the Russian troops will be shown that video the second the Russian army gets its hands on it, and you best believe they'll want to return the favor. It's the real reason you don't want to treat prisoners like ass. Not because of any moral reason, but because you don't want the same revisited on your countries captives.
Those MLR's rustle my jimmies. I would like to have one on my homestead for the upcoming end of days.
Please procure.
(I have no idea how effective they are on the receiving end, but GOD DAMN)
Those MLR's rustle my jimmies. I would like to have one on my homestead for the upcoming end of days.
Please procure.
(I have no idea how effective they are on the receiving end, but GOD DAMN)
There's a difference between collateral damage and intentionally shelling hospitals. The U.S. went out of its way to not completely flatten Fallujah despite it being filled with insurgents and insurgents using civilians as human shields.
The US told everyone to get out or be considered a combatant. I suppose Russia should do the same to meet your strict morals. Kind of a perfect example of a city being awful to take where civilians die.
Regarding hospitals (and other places), some have already been demonstrably used by Azov in Azov's own social media posts. We only know what we know, I'm sure Russians fucked up and are pretty loose with where arty lands, but just as well, the good guys have shown a willingness to use such buildings because they want Russia to get bad press if they kill them.
Did you just link me an entire wikipedia article to say bullshit? I'm going off of Russia's numbers, admittedly, but it's not the presumed 4k you're thinking. Numbers aside, it was anything but "minor military assistance" which is my point. I mean, it was so much assistance the US wanted to put a stop to it for a time. Article covering video Russia shared numbers in.
You really have no idea how fire support works, do you? Soldiers see enemy, soldiers call artillery, artillery receives coordinates, artillery shells coordinates. They don't need explicit orders from their commander, given to him from HQ to shell some static position in order to shell something they aren't supposed to based what a different unit is requesting. There are radio recordings of Russian infantry asking artillery to shell civilian targets. And what makes you think the commander is disciplined or has decent communication with high
This is just you talking out of your ass again. When people are expected to use the humanitarian corridors Russia isn't supposed to be shelling anything. It's supposed to be a calm moment so people take advantage of it and get out, assuming it's like Syria. There are instances from Syria where shelling happened but not on the corridor itself. I mention it only for when you or someone looks into it and goes "akshually they were killing syrians too!!" while ignoring the millions forced along the corridors into Idlib that are not dead and weren't dodging arty on their way out.
Your claim was that the Russian soldiers are ill disciplined and out of control so will just arty whatever they want based on whatever grid is given to them. I think that's demonstrably not the case unless a lot has changed since Syria. The source of your claim (as far as I can tell) backs up that it's controlled even in this case, but is irrelevant to the corridors.
NYT is going to be very biased but I do appreciate that it is a consolidation of footage, some of which I think is new to the thread. Also the radio intercept clips are all new to me.
Relevant snippet provided from the NYT link and will update my post with the full video in a bit, albeit lower resolution. Interestingly, even NYT says the Russians are "possibly committing war crimes" when providing context early in the video.
It's worth noting that all of the recordings are from the very beginning of the special military operation and I don't think that the clips necessarily line up with the locations being referenced, which is honestly understandable and expected.
I doubt the Russians just want to fuck the civilians up and considering they presumably need to remove their equipment before calling in artillery, they were probably fighting up close and decided "FUCK THIS SHIT GRAB EVERYTHING THEN BLOW IT UP." What I'm tryna say is they were probably fighting in that residential area so it's not like they just wanted to bomb civies for lulz.
If anyone has a source for the unedited radio clips please upload them or share them with me and I will upload them.
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Spergposting aside, every time I look into the sources of people making wild claims they turn out to be almost certainly a misrepresentation of the source material. Consider reviewing and linking the source so your claim lines up with what you saw in the news.
Previously it was "lolzor russian radios require 3g to work for encryption" which was 100% bullshit yet claimed by so many news articles all based off of a single tweet that didn't even translate an intercept properly.
Subtitles are embedded in the file but you need to download to see them I think. (Russian stuff is all subbed in the video)
Hey now, I'm not saying its good that these things are happening. That we still war with ourselves to resolve differences is its own tragedy. I'm just saying if you're going to commit to systematic mass slaughter and destruction of each other, why bother with silly things like rules or pretending that there's some humanity to the machine that eats up the best of us and spits it back out?
War is terrible and it should be terrible, lest we grow too fond of it.
Putin didn't invade Ukraine all by himself. It took a literal army of people able and willing to go along with his design. Any and all of those people are endowed with their own will and are ultimately responsible for the choices they make.
I wonder how many of them would go back and do things differently if they knew they'd end up crippled for the remainder of their days however long that ends up being. Surely even Russian prison looks better.
Putin didn't invade Ukraine all by himself. It took a literal army of people able and willing to go along with his design. Any and all of those people are endowed with their own will and are ultimately responsible for the choices they make.
I wonder how many of them would go back and do things differently if they knew they'd end up crippled for the remainder of their days however long that ends up being. Surely even Russian prison looks better.
You’re making an anodyne observation about human will that unfortunately comes up against inescapable truths about hierarchy and human socialization.
On the eve of their kamikaze attacks, the uyoku dantai would drink, weep for their mothers, and curse their wretched lot in life, but the next morning they all went to their deaths. Some went out of fear of shame, others out of a sense of duty, but they all went. The “choice” is not really there for most soldiers.
You’ve never had to face that situation. You probably never will either. Torture doesn’t advance the war effort. Torturing young men for being put in an awful situation that pitted them against you after they’ve already been neutralized is twisted. Cheering it on from the sidelines is pathetic and makes you look like a mean-spirited little sperg.
Yeah, don't come back outraged when Ukrainian POWs are suddenly getting shot or tortured. You treat prisoners like shit then don't be surprised to be treated like shit.
Russia was the one that started threatening no quarter if the Ukrainian Army kept fighting. I mentioned several days ago this was a retard move because it convinces the Ukrainians to fight to the death and also guarantees captured Russian soldiers get treated like dogshit.
It's just another example of the absolute hubris of the Russian State that led to this war. It's the foundation for the entire shitshow. They assumed they could not lose. So they could do and say whatever the fuck the wanted. Assumptions lose wars, and get alot of people killed.
I think we're well past that point at this stage in the game. Nobody still thinks this is "Just an exercise" and while I might have some sympathy for the rank and file being mislead into war, they still had the choice to nope out of there at any time after it became glaringly obvious it wasn't just an exercise.
I think we're well past that point at this stage in the game. Nobody still thinks this is "Just an exercise" and while I might have some sympathy for the rank and file being mislead into war, they still had the choice to nope out of there at any time after it became glaringly obvious it wasn't just an exercise.
>they still had the choice to nope out of there at any time after it became glaringly obvious it wasn't just an exercise. Tell me you've never been in the military without telling me you've never been in the military.
I've been hearing rumors Russia has been pulling troops from Armenia and Georgia to support Ukraine. I'll have to try and find some numbers on that, because I've been specifically citing that as one of Putin's many bad options, though I didn't expect it to bite him in the ass this soon.
You’re making an anodyne observation about human will that unfortunately comes up against inescapable truths about hierarchy and human socialization.
On the eve of their kamikaze attacks, the uyoku dantai would drink, weep for their mothers, and curse their wretched lot in life, but the next morning they all went to their deaths. Some went out of fear of shame, others out of a sense of duty, but they all went. The “choice” is not really there for most soldiers.
You’ve never had to face that situation. You probably never will either. Torture doesn’t advance the war effort. Torturing young men for being put in an awful situation that pitted them against you once they’ve been neutralized as a threat is twisted. Cheering it on from the sidelines is pathetic and makes you look like a mean-spirited little sperg.
Okay I take your point, and I'm not trying to hyperfocus on one specific area of your post, but the bolded isn't strictly speaking correct in this case.
Crippled PoWs are easier to contain and require fewer men dedicated to guard them since the flight risk is smaller. Also if traded back they probably wont be in any condition to return to the frontlines and will be a burden on the state which will have to set aside resources to their care and rehabilitation that can't be used in the war effort.
Okay I take your point, and I'm not trying to hyperfocus on one specific area of your post, but the bolded isn't strictly speaking correct in this case.
Crippled PoWs are easier to contain and require fewer men dedicated to guard them since the flight risk is smaller. Also if traded back they probably wont be in any condition to return to the frontlines and will be a burden on the state which will have to set aside resources to their care and rehabilitation that can't be used in the war effort.
Yeah, that's great and all, but the other side is going to be doing that now as well, and now both sides have to waste money on cripples. Also you do realize that when you shoot someone in the kneecap, it never truly heals?
Congratulations you just played yourself, because now your state has to pay for extra crippled soldiers, for fucking life.
