General transgender discussion thread - Take the tranny related debates here.

[teriyakiburns]

I’m sorry but this Is simply not true, Transgenderism has existed for as long as modern humans had been around, It only seems that way because science and studies have advanced to the point where we can accurately assess and determine relatively accurate data on the prevalence and numbers of trans people there are. Similar to any other condition, I.e Autism, Bipolar, Parkinson’s, ADD etc.

Notice that whenever there is a huge discovery in the field of studying a particular condition, the national data about the frequency of those affected increases exponentially That’s doesn’t mean that there has just suddenly been a huge rise In Cases, it is normally because there has been improvement in the validity of researching those afflicted so people who went previously undiagnosed are discovered to have it. With a few exceptions of course.

The recent trans movement is no doubt recent, but likely an equal amount of trans people have always existed throughout history, it just went by unnoticed due to the general hostility towards LGBT people and the historic harsh social standards society had for so many centuries. They were forced into secrecy through fear of public ridicule and being outcasts, which you could argue is still continuing to this day.

You and people like you repeat this often, but it always turns out to be a combination of projecting current social mores onto the past and straight-out cultural appropriation. Like this whole "two spirit" thing that gets bandied about so often. Turns out it's pretty much made up out of nothing, stolen from certain indigenous tribal customs, which existed to find a space for homosexual men, and transformed, through a post-modernist lens, into a universal transgender "success story". It's a pernicious lie, one that appropriate the culture of certain native tribes, appropriates the struggle of homosexuals, and then is used to erase the social diversity of every pre-industrial and pre-agrarian indigenous culture encountered by white, western, american activists. It imposes a modern, western, post-industrial, trans-activist shrink-wrap onto a world that would most definitely not accept it.

That's transgender activism to a tee. It's parasitic, stealing culture and iconography from everyone else and claiming it as its own, to the point of claiming the essence of the opposite sex by appropriation of superficial characteristics, as if they can just cargo-cult themselves into being the real thing by carving up their bodies and acting like extreme stereotypes.

Transgenderism did not exist until the 20th century. Anything claimed to be trans prior to that point is either a fundamentally misunderstanding of socio-cultural artefacts and history, or the misappropriation of plain old faggotry.

 

[gang weeder]

I’m sorry but this Is simply not true, Transgenderism has existed for as long as modern humans had been around, It only seems that way because science and studies have advanced to the point where we can accurately assess and determine relatively accurate data on the prevalence and numbers of trans people there are. Similar to any other condition, I.e Autism, Bipolar, Parkinson’s, ADD etc.

Notice that whenever there is a huge discovery in the field of studying a particular condition, the national data about the frequency of those affected increases exponentially That’s doesn’t mean that there has just suddenly been a huge rise In Cases, it is normally because there has been improvement in the validity of researching those afflicted so people who went previously undiagnosed are discovered to have it. With a few exceptions of course.

The recent trans movement is no doubt recent, but likely an equal amount of trans people have always existed throughout history, it just went by unnoticed due to the general hostility towards LGBT people and the historic harsh social standards society had for so many centuries. They were forced into secrecy through fear of public ridicule and being outcasts, which you could argue is still continuing to this day.

Explain this. If your theory is correct, all those boomers who were secretly trans all along should be coming out and identifying at the same rate as Gen Z. Shit, Gen Z is still twice the rate of millenials. Are there that many tranny millenials still in the closet since birth simply waiting to come out?

 

[Marvin]

I’m sorry but this Is simply not true, Transgenderism has existed for as long as modern humans had been around, It only seems that way because science and studies have advanced to the point where we can accurately assess and determine relatively accurate data on the prevalence and numbers of trans people there are. Similar to any other condition, I.e Autism, Bipolar, Parkinson’s, ADD etc.

Notice that whenever there is a huge discovery in the field of studying a particular condition, the national data about the frequency of those affected increases exponentially That’s doesn’t mean that there has just suddenly been a huge rise In Cases, it is normally because there has been improvement in the validity of researching those afflicted so people who went previously undiagnosed are discovered to have it. With a few exceptions of course.

The recent trans movement is no doubt recent, but likely an equal amount of trans people have always existed throughout history, it just went by unnoticed due to the general hostility towards LGBT people and the historic harsh social standards society had for so many centuries. They were forced into secrecy through fear of public ridicule and being outcasts, which you could argue is still continuing to this day.

No, transgenderism is a modern concept. It's an ideological belief about a psychological condition (gender dysphoria).

The ideological belief behind transgenderism is that everyone has a "gender identity" that's separate from sex, and the truest standard for a man or a woman is their gender identity. It goes on to claim that one experiences gender dysphoria when their gender identity doesn't match up with the gender identity that is traditionally associated with their sexed body.

Most of this is ideological and not based in any hard science or philosophy. These are basically assumptions, not scientifically tested observations. (and really, the body of evidence that hasn't been censored generally shows gender philosophy has some absurd holes in it)

But even gender dysphoria hasn't been around forever. It's not a universal human disorder/feature like Parkinson's or left handedness.

It's more like a culture bound syndrome. Culture bound syndromes are weird little intersections between localized human cultures and the human body that sometimes lead to real medical/psychological symptoms.

So like in the US in the 1980's, we had a satanic panic, where over 12,000 kids and young adults claimed to have been subjected to torture and molestation in weird satanic rituals. It was, of course, all nonsense, no such cults existed or were torturing kids. But it came with real psychological symptoms. It was tied to the US' historically religious culture and the culture at the time.

Or there's koro, which is a mass hysteria that develops in certain cultures where all the dudes get panic attacks that their dicks are magically shrinking away to nothing. They go to witch doctors to cure them.

Gender dysphoria is a culture bound disorder in modern English speaking countries or countries exposed to their media. In countries with less exposure to western media, homosexuality and cross dressing and all kinds of gender nonconforming behavior exist (because these things are generally part of the human condition), but gender dysphoria itself is incredibly rare.

We can recognize that the symptoms of culture bound syndromes are real, but there's a huge risk in humoring the unscientific, superstitious belief system that the sufferers claim as the source of their problems. Whether that's evil spirits or a gender soul/identity.

 

[AnOminous]

Or there's koro, which is a mass hysteria that develops in certain cultures where all the dudes get panic attacks that their dicks are magically shrinking away to nothing. They go to witch doctors to cure them.

So all we need to do is figure out how to induce koro in troons. They'll think their dicks are shrinking and going away, but they'll be ecstatic about it!

 

[Syntaxion]

I’m sorry but this Is simply not true, Transgenderism has existed for as long as modern humans had been around, It only seems that way because science and studies have advanced to the point where we can accurately assess and determine relatively accurate data on the prevalence and numbers of trans people there are. Similar to any other condition, I.e Autism, Bipolar, Parkinson’s, ADD etc.

Notice that whenever there is a huge discovery in the field of studying a particular condition, the national data about the frequency of those affected increases exponentially That’s doesn’t mean that there has just suddenly been a huge rise In Cases, it is normally because there has been improvement in the validity of researching those afflicted so people who went previously undiagnosed are discovered to have it. With a few exceptions of course.

The recent trans movement is no doubt recent, but likely an equal amount of trans people have always existed throughout history, it just went by unnoticed due to the general hostility towards LGBT people and the historic harsh social standards society had for so many centuries. They were forced into secrecy through fear of public ridicule and being outcasts, which you could argue is still continuing to this day.

>trans people would kill themself if they can't live authentically
>trans people have always been around in the same numbers, they were just pushed into the closet
So where are all the millions of trans suicides across history then? Someone would've noticed large swathes of society killing themself for no known reason. Hell, where are all the trans suicides in conservative countries today?

 

[thegooddoctor]

>trans people would kill themself if they can't live authentically
>trans people have always been around in the same numbers, they were just pushed into the closet
So where are all the millions of trans suicides across history then? Someone would've noticed large swathes of society killing themself for no known reason. Hell, where are all the trans suicides in conservative countries today?

What are you talking about? Being suicidal is a relatively rare thing in of itself,yes it happens a lot but you have to be pushed pretty far or be seriously mentally ill (don’t even try it) to actually want to kill yourself, there aren’t millions of people killing themselves anyway. Trans people wouldn’t necessarily kill themselves, before the 20th century we didn’t even really know bacteria was, or have any idea how to help mentally ill people or know what DNA or have any medicine for like 75% of most diseases.

People who would have been trans today just lived In isolation having weird feelings of not belonging in their body, and having no understanding of what was wrong with them since there wasn’t any public knowledge of what gender problems even were. Less people would have been inclined to act upon these urges so they just had to live with being different from society for the rest of their lives. Homosexuality was considered an evil act and a was illegal for the former half of the 20th century. So gays and especially trans would have never lived in a culture That felt they had better options so would just have learned to live with it since it was the only world they had ever known.

The Same argument could literally be applied to all gay people, why weren’t they killing themselves, or blacks, or women who couldn’t vote? Many were, but just because your oppressed doesn’t mean they automatically want to end it all, your hyperbole is so transparent it’s absurd.

 

[Syntaxion]

What are you talking about? Being suicidal is a relatively rare thing in of itself,

it's a common argument that trans people who aren't allowed to live their authentic lives, or are forced into the closet or whatever, will commit suicide. Or that the suicide rate is high due to lack of acceptance.

 

[DiscoRodeo]

it just went by unnoticed due to the general hostility towards LGBT people and the historic harsh social standards society had for so many centuries.

Simple question:

LGBT acceptance is arguably at its highest ever.

Trans suicides are at their highest ever.

What's the cause?

Most people would highlight something along the lines of, SRS and other permanent body modifications are making things worse, and that many mentally ill people without dysphoria are transitioning either physically or socially, adding further complications to their lives that wind up pushing them further down the hole. How do you explain away this?

 

[gang weeder]

Simple question:

LGBT acceptance is arguably at its highest ever.

Trans suicides are at their highest ever.

What's the cause?

Most people would highlight something along the lines of, SRS and other permanent body modifications are making things worse, and that many mentally ill people without dysphoria are transitioning either physically or socially, adding further complications to their lives that wind up pushing them further down the hole. How do you explain away this?

Drumpf.

 

[thegooddoctor]

Simple question:

LGBT acceptance is arguably at its highest ever.

Trans suicides are at their highest ever.

What's the cause?

Most people would highlight something along the lines of, SRS and other permanent body modifications are making things worse, and that many mentally ill people without dysphoria are transitioning either physically or socially, adding further complications to their lives that wind up pushing them further down the hole. How do you explain away this?

It clearly isn’t, if these forums and the general public indicate that if anything things have been regressing, it’s like Marvin said, the majority of people don’t really understand transgenderism as a whole and feign acceptance as an extension of gay rights. Also I imagine the large amount of those cases were perhaps not trans people but rather people with other more severe and general mental health issues, I.e Depression, Bipolar, extreme paranoia.etc. who attached themselves to the trans community as a way of finding acceptance. Rather than actually having any legitimate body dysphoria or actual transsexual leanings.

Statistics may make it seem like things are accepted, but data is often inaccurate and glosses over details, society as evidenced here is way less tolerant and accepting than any charts might say it to be. Just look at how many race crimes happen in your home of America even now, even homophobia. We’ve got a long way to go for real acceptance and trans suicides cannot be attributed to themselves but a huge way in which society operates. We’re all to blame for this.

 

[DiscoRodeo]

It clearly isn’t, if these forums and the general public indicate that if anything things have been regressing, it’s like Marvin said, the majority of people don’t really understand transgenderism as a whole and feign acceptance as an extension of gay rights. Also I imagine the large amount of those cases were perhaps not trans people but rather people with other more severe and general mental health issues, I.e Depression, Bipolar, extreme paranoia.etc. who attached themselves to the trans community as a way of finding acceptance. Rather than actually having any legitimate body dysphoria or actual transsexual leanings.

Statistics may make it seem like things are accepted, but data is often inaccurate and glosses over details, society as evidenced here is way less tolerant and accepting than any charts might say it to be. Just look at how many race crimes happen in your home of America even now, even homophobia. We’ve got a long way to go for real acceptance and trans suicides cannot be attributed to themselves but a huge way in which society operates. We’re all to blame for this.

So the stats aren't accurate, LGBT acceptance is lower than it has been in the past, so we need to turn back the clock to before gay rights were embraced by Disney and the majority of culture, to a time before the 90s where gay people are in the closet? To a time where we had lower rates of trans suicides, when they were more oppressed?

Also I imagine the large amount of those cases were perhaps not trans people but rather people with other more severe and general mental health issues

Welcome to the club, most people here realized this a long time ago, and that the modern trans movement is full of mentally ill people. Wasn't sure we would peak you, but it appears that we have.

 

[gang weeder]

It clearly isn’t, if these forums and the general public indicate that if anything things have been regressing, it’s like Marvin said, the majority of people don’t really understand transgenderism as a whole and feign acceptance as an extension of gay rights. Also I imagine the large amount of those cases were perhaps not trans people but rather people with other more severe and general mental health issues, I.e Depression, Bipolar, extreme paranoia.etc. who attached themselves to the trans community as a way of finding acceptance. Rather than actually having any legitimate body dysphoria or actual transsexual leanings.

Statistics may make it seem like things are accepted, but data is often inaccurate and glosses over details, society as evidenced here is way less tolerant and accepting than any charts might say it to be. Just look at how many race crimes happen in your home of America even now, even homophobia. We’ve got a long way to go for real acceptance and trans suicides cannot be attributed to themselves but a huge way in which society operates. We’re all to blame for this.

The vast majority of "hate crimes" these days are hoaxes.

 

[Sir Joahim Browinson III]

I feel like at this point wider trans community is not a gender minority group, but like a subculture.
Like, every generation or so appears a subculture that dominates the minds of tards and impressionable young adults. We had Hippies, we had punks, emos, goths and now we have troons.
It's the same fake non-conformity mixed with dumb specific style/wardrobe selection that you should base your entire personality around. I just don't belive there were ever been this much trans people out there. It's just people hopping on fashion trend and it's encouraged because there are money to be made on HRT and axe wounds.

 

[DiscoRodeo]

I feel like at this point wider trans community is not a gender minority group, but like a subculture.
Like, every generation or so appears a subculture that dominates the minds of tards and impressionable young adults. We had Hippies, we had punks, emos, goths and now we have troons.
It's the same fake non-conformity mixed with dumb specific style/wardrobe selection that you should base your entire personality around. I just don't belive there were ever been this much trans people out there. It's just people hopping on fashion trend and it's encouraged because there are money to be made on HRT and axe wounds.

I wouldn't say that the troons are the subculture, though they make up a large percentage of it and have increased dramatically, but the "genderqueer" subculture overall is what I'd call it.

To go back into what the good doctor is saying, I agree- tons of people with severe and general mentally illness and a lot of confused teens are jumping into this subculture. We're much more welcoming of the lgbt than we were in times past, in fact, lgbt is downright in vogue, so this makes sense.

Ironically, suicides are at their highest amongst troons, so whats the beef?

@thegooddoctor , I presume you would identify the uptick happened as a result of mentally ill people jumping into the "genderqueer" subculture, as you highlighted earlier.

Whats your solution? Certainly we shouldn't outlaw lgbt, but to express caution, to make sure they go to a therapist before transitioning, to ensure that only people with actual gender dysphoria transition? The things that this forum, that you rail against, has already suggested?

Also I imagine the large amount of those cases were perhaps not trans people but rather people with other more severe and general mental health issues, I.e Depression, Bipolar, extreme paranoia.etc. who attached themselves to the trans community as a way of finding acceptance

How would you help those mentally ill people committing suicide in the trans community, who are perhaps not really trans, but jumped into the subculture and went full throttle with it?

 

[Richard Budgetts Brain]

Most of you probably know the Gender through a wider Lens podcast. They're going on a break and want to return with a different focus in summer.
For the past few weeks, they had "pioneers" of the transgender field as guests. In their latest episode, they reflected on the interviews:

• The Dutch protocol is shit. The inventors were excited to get international recognition and are protecting it. They're as clueless as everyone else who goes by it. Sasha Ayad almost lost it when she talked about this.
• A lot of the research is based on the HSTS population from decades ago and the findings cannot be applied to hysteric autists.
• There needs to be more research into autism. (!!!)
• They called the transition process "a medical scam".

I have been listening to some of the episodes and can only recommend them, especially episode 64:

Spoiler

The interview was with a psychiatrist who dealt with teenage troons in a clinic in the UK. He said that the patients were mostly autistic. So autistic that they annoyed the doctors into giving them what they wanted because the docs didn't want to deal with the outbursts. He also said that satisfaction after transition correlated with severity of autism

 

[gang weeder]

I feel like at this point wider trans community is not a gender minority group, but like a subculture.
Like, every generation or so appears a subculture that dominates the minds of tards and impressionable young adults. We had Hippies, we had punks, emos, goths and now we have troons.
It's the same fake non-conformity mixed with dumb specific style/wardrobe selection that you should base your entire personality around. I just don't belive there were ever been this much trans people out there. It's just people hopping on fashion trend and it's encouraged because there are money to be made on HRT and axe wounds.

It's a cult. Pseudo-religion really.

 

[Sarcastic sockpuppet]

This doc from german tv is ever-so-slightly critical of transitionning, giving airtime to two detrans lesbians. It also feature a young transman diving deeper into the process and a middle-age transwoman, both are presenting themselves as happy and settled into their new identities.

I am frankly surprised that they decided to be a bit critical. It even mentions that terf island and other countries have tightened their laws without presenting this fact as über-negative.

 

[b0x]

Simple question:

LGBT acceptance is arguably at its highest ever.

Trans suicides are at their highest ever.

What's the cause?

Most people would highlight something along the lines of, SRS and other permanent body modifications are making things worse, and that many mentally ill people without dysphoria are transitioning either physically or socially, adding further complications to their lives that wind up pushing them further down the hole. How do you explain away this?

These are my theories based on what information I have.

The cause is the medical industry/beauty industry in one way. They've achieved near maximum world market saturation. There's nowhere to grow as a listed traded company. So what do you do? You need to invent a new reason for people to have surgery,sell drugs, and beauty products. It's not personal, this is just business.

In the second way, since the delinking of NAMBLA from the LGBT lobby group decades ago, there needs to be a new avenue for the public to accept child sex, in the same way the elites participate in. Advocating for adults to have sex with children was the wrong approach back in the 80's, a far better approach would be to focus on the children. Tell people that children have LGBT rights, then eventually tell people children have sexual rights.

 

[Cryin RN]

I’m sorry but this Is simply not true, Transgenderism has existed for as long as modern humans had been around,

This is probably true, because paraphilias are a kind of hard-baked glitch in male sexuality, but it doesn't make "trans" real. Just autogynephilia. There are very limited reports of exclusively high-status males who seemed to really, really enjoy crossdressing way too much (Elagabalus, Chevalier d'Eon).

Most of you probably know the Gender through a wider Lens podcast. They're going on a break and want to return with a different focus in summer.
For the past few weeks, they had "pioneers" of the transgender field as guests. In their latest episode, they reflected on the interviews:

• The Dutch protocol is shit. The inventors were excited to get international recognition and are protecting it. They're as clueless as everyone else who goes by it. Sasha Ayad almost lost it when she talked about this.

Yeah this series was a real master class! There was so much great insight from the OG white head shrinkers and the group therapy guy - such a shame his model didn't get replicated. And the Dutchies were clueless. No insight, no doubt, total confidence as they admit they're flying blind. I noticed that Stella asked them how many of their patients "got married", and they bristled at it as if it was an offensive question- but marriage is an excellent indicator mark of social success, which is what Stella was trying to gauge, and not only did they not understand this basic social science concept, they weren't even curious. Like fucking obviously not everyone gets married, but if not even 50% of a female cohort can form long-term adult relationships after puberty blockers, then there's a massive problem. Oh well! Don't measure it, can't get sued for it, right?

 

[JokahBaybee]

Found this and I'm putting it here for you to look at and dissect.

Myth: Pimozide and gender dysphoria (Gender Analysis)

Transphobes are irresponsibly promoting the idea that trans people should be treated with ineffective antipsychotic drugs.

genderanalysis.net

Also, at the end, they whine about how "transphobes don't think we really exist, and they want to erase us from history!!!!!"
Of course I think you exist, dumbass, or I wouldn't be sitting here, discussin it with ya, now would I?


If it hasn't been asked already, why do troons always say this stupid shit? What the fuck are they trying to convey?