Russian Invasion of Ukraine Megathread

[AnOminous]

The fantasy retellings of Iraq and Afghanistan have begun. In another 20 years people like you will be saying America managed to conquer the two countries without any casualties, using only 3 Humvees and 2 squads of Marines who had just woken up hungover from a weekend booze-up, killed over 900 thousand armed, trained and equipped Iraqi Army and insurgents (who were being supplied with current-gen anti-armor and MANPADs by China) and instilled democracy in the region for the forseeable future.

I think the statement is substantively true about at least Iraq, although we never "occupied" Afghanistan as such. We could put some well dressed fop in Kabul. And then he's called President. Even though he's essentially mayor of Kabul. But we really did have almost as catastrophic an occupation as Russia has had an invasion, even though frankly our invasion went fantastically.

It's just that the people planning it had weird delusions that they'd greet us as liberators and somehow the power vacuum of Saddam Hussein suddenly being gone wouldn't invite claimants to the throne. Well, we weren't greeted as liberators, but the occupiers we were.

Nevertheless, seriously, it wasn't as disastrous as this. It would have been better to avoid that war at all, but at least we actually got to the occupation stage, as poorly as it went after that.

For a comparison, imagine we invade Mexico and they kick our ass.

 

[Varg Did Nothing Wrong]

For a comparison, imagine we invade Mexico and they kick our ass.

Do you unironically believe the US could invade Mexico and make exponentially better progress while simultaneously limiting destruction of civilian infrastructure and population to the degree that we are currently seeing in Ukraine?

 

[AnOminous]

Do you unironically believe the US could invade Mexico and make exponentially better progress while simultaneously limiting destruction of civilian infrastructure and population to the degree that we are currently seeing in Ukraine?

That's what was going on earlier but as frustration has set in, both sides appear to be increasingly vicious. Also no, if we were invading Mexico, it would have to be over something serious and there would really be no punches pulled, and we would give not one single fuck about world opinion.

 

[Varg Did Nothing Wrong]

That's what was going on earlier but as frustration has set in, both sides appear to be increasingly vicious. Also no, if we were invading Mexico, it would have to be over something serious and there would really be no punches pulled, and we would give not one single fuck about world opinion.

Any time the US invades somewhere, it's ostensibly over "something serious with no punches pulled" and they proceed to carpet bomb everything into oblivion.

The US can create world opinion if it needs to, and if it doesn't - it just ignores it because it doesn't matter.

 

[Hard Toothbrush]

so how has your countries main stream media been treating this war? for Sweden, they are 100% for Ukraine and think Putin is the devil. no mention of the azoth brigade, Ukraine using their people as meat shields and executing Russian soldiers.

Same here, the biggest online news website even made a section written in Ukrainian (at least I assume it's Ukrainian, I don't speak moon runes). Add in some nobodies you've never heard of (that are totally top experts in Russian geopolitics goy, don't question it, you aren't a Putler sympathizer are you?) and failed has-been post-commie politicians offering their hot takes too.
The comments (in the places that allow them) do seem to have swayed recently, they're maybe not pro-Russia but anti-Ukraine in that they recognize that both sides lie about anything and everything.

 

[Pork Packer]

The fantasy retellings of Iraq and Afghanistan have begun. In another 20 years people like you will be saying America managed to conquer the two countries without any casualties, using only 3 Humvees and 2 squads of Marines who had just woken up hungover from a weekend booze-up, killed over 900 thousand armed, trained and equipped Iraqi Army and insurgents (who were being supplied with current-gen anti-armor and MANPADs by China) and instilled democracy in the region for the forseeable future.

Ok. So how many men and vehicles did the US lose during its initial invasion of iraq and afghanistan?

How long did it take to assert complete occupation of both nations capitals and all major cities?

How many land borders dis the US share with iraq/afghanistan, and failing that what was the distance between the US and iraq/afghanistan?

How large was the Iraqi/Taliban armed forces and what geographical defensive advantages did they have?

This is a pretty simple metric of comparison unless you wanna argue the US sekritly covered up a gorrillion extra casualties.

 

[Aidan]

The fantasy retellings of Iraq and Afghanistan have begun. In another 20 years people like you will be saying America managed to conquer the two countries without any casualties, using only 3 Humvees and 2 squads of Marines who had just woken up hungover from a weekend booze-up, killed over 900 thousand armed, trained and equipped Iraqi Army and insurgents (who were being supplied with current-gen anti-armor and MANPADs by China) and instilled democracy in the region for the forseeable future.

Fallujah is currently a flex on how to properly take a city all while ignoring how long it took, how much destruction there was, hundreds of civilian deaths and US casualties, bombing, displacing hundreds of thousands of civilians, etc.

If Russia pulled off their own version of that then people would mock them for taking too long, being needlessly brutal, killing civilians, and more.
Not that they could and the US-led coalition forces did a great job, it's just that people conveniently forget Fallujah is still scarred from how brutal it was

Ok. So how many men and vehicles did the US lose during its initial invasion of iraq and afghanistan?

How long did it take to assert complete occupation of both nations capitals and all major cities?

How many land borders dis the US share with iraq/afghanistan, and failing that what was the distance between the US and iraq/afghanistan?

How large was the Iraqi/Taliban armed forces and what geographical defensive advantages did they have?

This is a pretty simple metric of comparison unless you wanna argue the US sekritly covered up a gorrillion extra casualties.

Calm down, you missed the point.

 

[Varg Did Nothing Wrong]

This is a pretty simple metric of comparison unless you wanna argue the US sekritly covered up a gorrillion extra casualties.

Nobody is saying the US secretly covered up extra casualties. If that's what you got out of the comment then you need to take some remedial English classes at your local community college instead of larping as a military analyst on KF.

 

[AnOminous]

Not that they could and the US-led coalition forces did a great job, it's just that people conveniently forget Fallujah is still scarred from how brutal it was

Using white phosphorus there was a war crime as much as anything the Russians are currently doing, even if white phosphorus is not specifically banned. So was the "Highway of Death" in Gulf I, but of course, we could do that with impunity because we had already won and there weren't going to be any dumbass war crimes trials, that if they tried to have in the Hague, we'd laugh at them and ignore the proceedings entirely.

 

[Pork Packer]

Nobody is saying the US secretly covered up extra casualties. If that's what you got out of the comment then you need to take some remedial English classes at your local community college instead of larping as a military analyst on KF.

Ok. You gonna answer the actual questions in my post then?

These are pretty easily googleable factoids with a swath of sauces to use to verify.

 

[NynchLiggers]

I think the statement is substantively true about at least Iraq, although we never "occupied" Afghanistan as such. We could put some well dressed fop in Kabul. And then he's called President. Even though he's essentially mayor of Kabul. But we really did have almost as catastrophic an occupation as Russia has had an invasion, even though frankly our invasion went fantastically.

It's just that the people planning it had weird delusions that they'd greet us as liberators and somehow the power vacuum of Saddam Hussein suddenly being gone wouldn't invite claimants to the throne. Well, we weren't greeted as liberators, but the occupiers we were.

Nevertheless, seriously, it wasn't as disastrous as this. It would have been better to avoid that war at all, but at least we actually got to the occupation stage, as poorly as it went after that.

For a comparison, imagine we invade Mexico and they kick our ass.

Ukranian Army is not as shitty as the iraqi one tho. They don't have the curse of muslim armies, plus got a lot of training and support from the West.
Spud is essentially chimping out against the vatniks here and throwing shit to see it will stick.

 

[Kane Lives]

Ukranian Army is not as shitty as the iraqi one tho. They don't have the curse of muslim armies, plus got a lot of training and support from the West.
Spud is essentially chimping out against the vatniks here and throwing shit to see it will stick.

I sometimes wonder how Arab militaries even function at times. The tribalism must be insane in the ranks.

 

[AnOminous]

Ukranian Army is not as shitty as the iraqi one tho. They don't have the curse of muslim armies, plus got a lot of training and support from the West.
Spud is essentially chimping out against the vatniks here and throwing shit to see it will stick.

I think Putin, in as much of a bubble as Bush, despite being considerably more intelligent, actually thought this was going to be a cakewalk and this is why he tried to start it gentle, as if they were just going to roll over like a prison bitch. I honestly don't know if anyone knows what they're doing any more.

 

[NynchLiggers]

I think Putin, in as much of a bubble as Bush, despite being considerably more intelligent, actually thought this was going to be a cakewalk and this is why he tried to start it gentle, as if they were just going to roll over like a prison bitch. I honestly don't know if anyone knows what they're doing any more.

He unironically believed in the Pentagon fearmongering about Russia used to justify further funding.

 

[Varg Did Nothing Wrong]

Ok. You gonna answer the actual questions in my post then?

These are pretty easily googleable factoids with a swath of sauces to use to verify.

No, because they miss the point of the comment. Why would I waste my time getting into some sort of gay hair splitting contest about how many Iraqi tanks the US managed to blow up from beyond visible range with quarter million dollar missiles?

 

[Pork Packer]

Ukranian Army is not as shitty as the iraqi one tho. They don't have the curse of muslim armies, plus got a lot of training and support from the West.
Spud is essentially chimping out against the vatniks here and throwing shit to see it will stick.

Really? So the whole "ukraine is a corrupt shithole with barely trained retard militias infesting its army and with zero morale" schtick thats been spammed for weeks here has been retconned now?

Amazing how the narrative has shifted from ukraines army being a pitiful joke that will surrender en masse within days to one of the top militaries on the planet solely because the russia stronk huffers cant cope with reality fucking with their fantasy

Also as for "a lot of training and support from the west" maybe you should look into the support that was thrown at iraq for decades before desert storm

I sometimes wonder how Arab militaries even function at times. The tribalism must be insane in the ranks.

IMO its less about arab armies, more a factor in soviet style/inspired "bulk conscript" armies that have the misfortune of having their abilities semi regularly tested by actual warfare unlike their counterparts in latin america/china/the ex soviet block which have had relative peace beyond internal suppression.

 

[Drag-on Knight 91873]

For a comparison, imagine we invade Mexico and they kick our ass.

In a way, Mexican drug cartels did invade the US. The US doesn't officially care, but now I'm wondering if it's because invading Mexico would be like invading Afghanistan and the potential loss is enough to lose face entirely. Crime, much like Afghanistan's opium, is the Mexican economy and its people would certainly resent US troops invading their cities, but the US failing to achieve War on Terror objectives in Mexico would put doubt in our ability to project power in the Americas.

 

[Aidan]

You are just so eager to argue. Genuinely too much time on reddit.

 

[Grand Wizard Wakka]

Putin and Zelenskyy, or whatever the fuck they're calling him today, will fall in love, as that Jew bastard realizes he wants nothing more than to be fucked up the ass by a bear.

"Ride me like one of your horses."

 

[Übertroon]

How do you guys think this conflict will end?

In the beginning I thought this would be a costly victory for Russia where they took half of Ukraine and put Zelensky and other prominent Ukrainian figureheads in show trials.

Now I think Russia will have to fight for the territory they captured in February.. Ukraine is advancing on Kherson, and Russia has yet to make a successful attack on Kharkiv.
Ukraine is not capturing Crimea or Donetsk, but the question is what the fate of Kherson and Mariupol will be in the summer.
Russia can capture Mariupol, but can they hold it? That requires greater success near Kherson and Kharkiv to tie down the Ukrainian army