War Invasion of Ukraine News Megathread - Thread is only for articles and discussion of articles, general discussion thread is still in Happenings.

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President Joe Biden on Tuesday said that the United States will impose sanctions “far beyond” the ones that the United States imposed in 2014 following the annexation of the Crimean peninsula.

“This is the beginning of a Russian invasion of Ukraine,” Biden said in a White House speech, signaling a shift in his administration’s position. “We will continue to escalate sanctions if Russia escalates,” he added.

Russian elites and their family members will also soon face sanctions, Biden said, adding that “Russia will pay an even steeper price” if Moscow decides to push forward into Ukraine. Two Russian banks and Russian sovereign debt will also be sanctioned, he said.

Also in his speech, Biden said he would send more U.S. troops to the Baltic states as a defensive measure to strengthen NATO’s position in the area.

Russia shares a border with Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania.

A day earlier, Russian President Vladimir Putin ordered troops to go into the separatist Donetsk and Lugansk regions in eastern Ukraine after a lengthy speech in which he recognized the two regions’ independence.

Western powers decried the move and began to slap sanctions on certain Russian individuals, while Germany announced it would halt plans to go ahead with the Russia-to-Germany Nord Stream 2 pipeline.

At home, Biden is facing bipartisan pressure to take more extensive actions against Russia following Putin’s decision. However, a recent poll showed that a majority of Americans believe that sending troops to Ukraine is a “bad idea,” and a slim minority believes it’s a good one.

All 27 European Union countries unanimously agreed on an initial list of sanctions targeting Russian authorities, said French Foreign Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian, and EU foreign affairs head Josep Borell claimed the package “will hurt Russia … a lot.”

Earlier Tuesday, Borell asserted that Russian troops have already entered the Donbas region, which comprises Donetsk and Lugansk, which are under the control of pro-Russia groups since 2014.

And on Tuesday, the Russian Parliament approved a Putin-back plan to use military force outside of Russia’s borders as Putin further said that Russia confirmed it would recognize the expanded borders of Lugansk and Donetsk.

“We recognized the states,” the Russian president said. “That means we recognized all of their fundamental documents, including the constitution, where it is written that their [borders] are the territories at the time the two regions were part of Ukraine.”

Speaking to reporters on Tuesday, Putin said that Ukraine is “not interested in peaceful solutions” and that “every day, they are amassing troops in the Donbas.”

Meanwhile, Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelensky on Tuesday morning again downplayed the prospect of a Russian invasion and proclaimed: “There will be no war.”

“There will not be an all-out war against Ukraine, and there will not be a broad escalation from Russia. If there is, then we will put Ukraine on a war footing,” he said in a televised address.

The White House began to signal that they would shift their own position on whether it’s the start of an invasion.

“We think this is, yes, the beginning of an invasion, Russia’s latest invasion into Ukraine,” said Jon Finer, the White House deputy national security adviser in public remarks. “An invasion is an invasion and that is what is underway.”

For weeks, Western governments have been claiming Moscow would invade its neighbor after Russia gathered some 150,000 troops along the countries’ borders. They alleged that the Kremlin would attempt to come up with a pretext to attack, while some officials on Monday said Putin’s speech recognizing the two regions was just that.

But Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin told reporters Tuesday that Russia’s “latest invasion” of Ukraine is threatening stability in the region, but he asserted that Putin can “still avoid a full blown, tragic war of choice.”

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There used to be a toast among Royal Navy midshipmen back in the Age of Sail: "To a short war and a bloody victory!" Of course, the war isn't exactly short and it looks to be a bloody defeat, but the same ethos probably applies. Getting that full commission is easy if everyone above you is dead, after all.
If you want a short war with a conclusive victory, you need to decapitate the enemy command and render the enemy forces headless before the war becomes a yearly affair. It reminds me of this clip from the Old Republic MMO:


Seems the Ukrainians are closer to that goal than the Russians are. If they kill enough Russian generals and admirals, the Russian army will be running around like headless chickens. Even more so than they are doing now.

The Russians may actually be telling the truth... from a certain point of view. If the ship is hit, a fire breaks out, and an ammunition cookoff blows a hole in the side... yeah, I can see rough sea conditions finishing the job given its no longer completely seaworthy.
"So what I told you was true, from a certain point of view."

Wouldn't shock me if Ukraine, unlike Russia, had performed basic maintenance that entire time to ensure it at least stayed in good condition. Odds on the West giving them money and weapons to finish building it? We're likely going to see Ukraine become the Black Sea's new naval power as part of the aftermath. Especially since that would be a lovely way to also rein in Turkey's ambitions by reminding them they're not the Ottoman Empire at its height.
It's likely that Ukraine will become a Black Sea power, but highly unlikely that they will rein in Turkey. More like support them, especially since Turkish drones helped deliver victory to Ukraine.

I'm afraid its going to take about 3/4 of an hour just to explain in sufficient detail what an absolute disaster that mission was.
And all of it, because Russia couldn't share that part of the world with Japan. Japan offered to recognize Russian control of Manchuria if the Russians accepted Japanese control of Korea; Russia refused, and the war broke out.

But seriously, reinforcing a post halfway around the world with a fleet that's supposed to operate in the Baltics? Staffed with a crew of peasants? This war was lost before the Russian fleet even got to Tsushima for the final battle.
 
One century later, Vodka Boy hasn't gotten any better at naval battles.

well, technically sinking of the Moscow wasn't a naval battle, may be a semi-naval, at least Moscow didn't know about battle taking place.

I think the last "battle" between Ukrainian navy and Russian navy, when a Russian warship rammed Ukrainian unarmed tug boat Yana Kapu in neutral waters in Kerch straights in 2018. The tug was shot at and boarded, and impounded. And guess what else ... yes, Russian stole a fucking toilet appliance off it.





This is not strictly war related, well not to sane people. Dude in Ivankovo town in Russia was quietly giving away free copies of Orwell 1984. Guess what happened next.

1. He got arrested.
2. He got charged with "discrediting Russian armed forces" that carries penalty of 10 years in prison
3. All of the above

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If you remember about the leak of video and address info from one Belarus postal station where RF army dudes were shipping looted goods back home?

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According to Mediazone, from 69 parcels shipped from that location, 49 are "lost" or "not delivered"

Ahhh, Russian Postal Service, a black hole where your shit gets lost :story:
 
I'm afraid its going to take about 3/4 of an hour just to explain in sufficient detail what an absolute disaster that mission was.
But that is such a good video about it. And delightfully sarcastic. I especially love the part where the crews start collecting poisonous and carnivorous animals and they start running loose on the ships.

In related news I am seeing some reports that Russia has "redeployed" all of it's Black Sea Fleet to the southern Black Sea. I assume this is because of increased "Fire Risk" that cannot be dealt with by the Captain's turning on the No Smoking Signs? Rough Seas and all.

There would also appear to be a fairly large grouping of NATO vessels that have entered the Baltic Sea. Something that they don't often do. Including a pair of Arleigh Burkes. Showing support for Finland and Sweden.

I suspect Carpenters are working furiously to further lengthen Putin's Meeting Table.
 
If you want a short war with a conclusive victory, you need to decapitate the enemy command and render the enemy forces headless before the war becomes a yearly affair.
I was saying the Russian lower ranks are probably happy an admiral and a bunch of senior captains likely bit the big one since it means there's some fresh job openings in the upper ranks, but okay, sure, let's go with that.
yes, Russian stole a fucking toilet appliance off it.
Appears Russians will steal anything. Including the kitchen bathroom sink. And no surprise the postal workers are "losing" packages. Those Ukrainian appliances probably work better than anything at home.
It's likely that Ukraine will become a Black Sea power, but highly unlikely that they will rein in Turkey. More like support them, especially since Turkish drones helped deliver victory to Ukraine.
Am aware of increased ties between them thanks to the drones, but we're looking at Bayraktar drones that Turkey themselves are disavowing all official support of (its a private company, man) in order not to draw Russia's ire, versus direct, official support from all of the West on general principles of "Fuck Putin". Gee, I wonder who Ukraine will be friendlier to after the war, the nation that let them buy drones, or the ones shipping them all sorts of free, top-end shit? Especially if Ukraine and the West cut a deal that sees Ukraina completed. And there's a very good chance of that since it would be a lovely way for NATO to totally not dominate the Black Sea given Moskva's sudden participation in a special underwater operation.
But that is such a good video about it. And delightfully sarcastic. I especially love the part where the crews start collecting poisonous and carnivorous animals and they start running loose on the ships.
Yeah, its great shit. Like I said, really needs 43 minutes of explanation over 8 or so given how embarrassingly bad it was for Russia.
But seriously, reinforcing a post halfway around the world with a fleet that's supposed to operate in the Baltics? Staffed with a crew of peasants? This war was lost before the Russian fleet even got to Tsushima for the final battle.
Na, the Russian Pacific Fleet under Admiral Stepan Makarov was initially comporting itself surprisingly well actually as a result of his experience in the Russo-Turkish War as a Captain... until his flagship hit a mine and an ammo magazine detonated, taking 27 officers and 652 enlisted men with her, one of those officers being Makarov. Only 7 officers and 73 men were rescued. But that body count has more to do with pre-dreadnoughts being deathtraps than anything particularly Russian.

Hell, more men made it off her alive than HMS Hood and her mere three survivors.
 
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All of Ukraine is under an Air Raid Alert
So Putin sending in Carpet Bombing Bears?
I don't think the Russians train their bomber pilots for carpet bombing runs or dropping unguided bombs for that matter. That being said that wouldn't stop the idiots from telling their strategic bombers to commit such an action they have no training for as we have seen example after example of Russian stupidity. I really hope they were so dumb as we can see some real serious damage to some irreplaceable airframes as we know for some strange reason the Ukranians have a knack for knowing when and where the Russian Air Force will show up.
 
All of Ukraine is under an Air Raid Alert
So Putin sending in Carpet Bombing Bears?
That would be the stupidest possible thing he could do given the current situation of contested airspace and highly effective Ukrainian AA... which is why I'm inclined to believe it might actually happen.
I don't think the Russians train their bomber pilots
You could have just stopped there, given what we've seen of the Russian Air Force so far.
 
Russia has repeatedly outlined what the actual provocations were for years.

I will summarize, but these provocations were outlined since fall of USSR. "Remember Cuba? We don't want your missiles on our borders, either. Just like you didn't want a nation on your doorstep to house our missile systems, we don't want a nation on our doorstep to house your missile systems. If you do that, we will invade like you did in Cuba, but better. Oh look, we invaded like you did, but better. Why are you acting all surprised, this is silly."

You can disagree with Russia, most of world does. But it's not like they didn't warn NATO about the provocations (in their eyes, if not yours) for decades.
You would have a point if the US and/or NATO wanted to stick nukes in Ukraine or even if Ukraine had its own long-range offensive strike capabilities, but they don't.

Putin didn't invade Ukraine because he was afraid of Ukraine, he invaded Ukraine because he thought they were weak.
Oh, there’s going to be nukes in them now after Putin’s little shitfit.
This is what I think is so funny about this all.:
If the Kremlin's goal was actually to weaken NATO then they have already failed. They have already failed to deliver a quick knock-out of an independent power significantly weaker (on paper) than their own military, they have convinced a number of neutral/fence-sitting nations to go ahead and join NATO, they have pretty much dampened all internal tension between NATO member states and US vs West Euro vs Eastern Euro; and at this point even Russiabro's are resigning to the cope of "well at least we took Donbass lol".

All of Ukraine is under an Air Raid Alert
So Putin sending in Carpet Bombing Bears?
More likely to just waste a bunch more Iskander, Tochka-M and Kalibr on stationary targets; forcing them to use anti-ship stuff like Khinzal and Bastion-P in ground attack again in a fucking week.
 
"well at least we took Donbass lol".
For now. But considering how depopulated the place will be following the usual Russian conscription measures of "He looks healthy enough, give him a rifle and a magazine", not sure they'll be able to hold it... assuming of course the people there don't welcome in the Ukrainian "Neo-Nazis" like it was 1940.
 
Seems like they are tacitly admitting it, if you go by this Russia 1 tv segment. Angry boomer stomps his feet a bit and calls for Kiev to be bombed a bunch.

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The fact that they have to avoid calling it a war for fear of imprisonment is such an absolutely gay thing. This is supposed to be Le Epik Strong Bear Mother Russia XD!11!!! and they can't even call this shit a war. How fucking gay can you be?

Edit: Don't worry about carpet bombing from Russia, they already think carpets belong on the walls, they'll end up blowing themselves up due to sheer inability to understand what carpets mean.
 
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For now. But considering how depopulated the place will be following the usual Russian conscription measures of "He looks healthy enough, give him a rifle and a magazine", not sure they'll be able to hold it... assuming of course the people there don't welcome in the Ukrainian "Neo-Nazis" like it was 1940.
I mean yeah, for the amount of troops they sent in, the areas Russia has actually been able to control is pretty slim and even then its more laughable when you realize a good chunk of the area they have "captured" was already in the hands of friendly forces.
 
I mean yeah, for the amount of troops they sent in, the areas Russia has actually been able to control is pretty slim and even then its more laughable when you realize a good chunk of the area they have "captured" was already in the hands of friendly forces.
My point was more that A. nobody will be there to defend it in the name of Mother Russia and B. a massive chunk of the USSR initially welcomed the Nazis since at that point anything was better than Stalin given his body count. And then it turns out that unlike the Nazis Stalin was satisfied killing only half the people living in the USSR.

Needless to say the Ukrainians won't be repeating Nazi Germany's mistake of genocide. We're gonna see a hell of a lot of Ukrainian flags flying when Ukraine pushes back into Donbass after what Putin's done to those places.
 
Wouldn't shock me if Ukraine, unlike Russia, had performed basic maintenance that entire time to ensure it at least stayed in good condition.
They were, at least up until a few years ago, mostly because they were trying to convince the Russians to buy it. Whether or not they bothered to keep up with that after the Donbass invasion killed the last shred of it's potential use, who knows?
Odds on the West giving them money and weapons to finish building it?
Microscopically slim to none. Even if they've kept the maintenence up it's full of 30 year old Soviet systems that weren't exactly good to begin with. You'd have to essentially strip her back to the bare hull and then find a way to design and cram in Western replacements for pretty much everything, and by that point you might as well have just built a modern ship to an existing, superior, design and have done with it.

We're likely going to see Ukraine become the Black Sea's new naval power as part of the aftermath.
We're really, really not. For all intents and purposes the Ukrainians do not have a Navy at all, having nothing larger than incredibly small patrol boats. While the loss of the Moskva is bad for the Russians they still have a reasonable nominal strength in the Black Sea Fleet, not including anything they transfer from the other fleets.
Given the increasing range/capability of land based AShMs, perfectly demonstrated by what happened here, and given the cost of both building and operating enough surface combatants from scratch it makes no sense. Rather than trying to match the Black Sea fleet strength for strength they'd be better off investing that money into building a ton of the clearly effective Neptune batteries, and maaaaybe some cheap Missile Boats/Fast attack craft to give them a slightly more mobile punch.
 
We're likely going to see Ukraine become the Black Sea's new naval power as part of the aftermath.
Lolno

Not only does Ukraine not have the capability to build or field any kind of sizeable surface fleet, but they also lack the naval tradition and institutional knowledge that would make such a fleet useful anyway.

Who in Ukraine is going to lead this black sea fleet and what do they know about captaining a ship larger than a tugboat, much less a fleet of such ships?
 
Lolno

Not only does Ukraine not have the capability to build or field any kind of sizeable surface fleet, but they also lack the naval tradition and institutional knowledge that would make such a fleet useful anyway.

Who in Ukraine is going to lead this black sea fleet and what do they know about captaining a ship larger than a tugboat, much less a fleet of such ships?

A lot of Soviet era higher ranks are still around. Back then experience was far better too. There are many good size ports and Soviet academies. Mykolaev was a big shipbuilding city that built Moscow, Kuznetsov and other large ships. Also there is a huge business in the river fleet, and not all fleet is military, there are lot of ukrainian merchant marines.

After 2014, cadets who did not switch sides to Russia ended up going to UK for education and training.

Maintaining navy is stupid expensive, unless you are rolling in dough I just don't see the need for a large offensive force or to project anything.



Commander of the Black Sea fleet, Igor Osipov has been arrested.

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