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- Nov 21, 2020
When they realized they could put in 10% of the effort and get the same amount of money, or more.
Star Trek - Space: The Final Frontier
- Thread starter Snorlaxative
- Start date
Molly White's Breast Milk
kiwifarms.net
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As much as Ron Moore would have improved Voyager based on the BSG remake, I'm not entirely certain he would have not made Voyager... well... the BSG remake in its later seasons. I've said this in other threads, but the difference between BSG characters and Star Trek characters is that BSG characters are terrible people with severe personality disorders of some kind. Trek characters can be bland at times, but I don't come out of the show thinking, "Why do I want these characters to live again?"
- Joined
- Jan 10, 2014
I dunno, the first two seasons of Enterprise put in a pretty good effort of making you wish the Romulan War would break out a decade early and put all the characters (except for Reed and maybe Hoshi) out of our misery.
Radical Cadre
kiwifarms.net
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But damn Jeri Ryan has some bombs.
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- Mar 5, 2021
Even her pre-liberated Borg costume shows off her breasts. WHOA, that Borg's got some chestacles!
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- Aug 31, 2020
The breasts house extra processors. That's how she handles all the technobabble.
Radical Cadre
kiwifarms.net
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She was better with all the hardware. I will teach her to love.
Honka Honka Burning Love
In Clown World, the only god is the one who Honks.
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
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- May 25, 2013
in hindsight that was a really fun "more TNG" ep of Voyager
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- Dec 3, 2013
I still liked Voyager. It was more Star Trek than most anything else we’ve gotten since.
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- Mar 17, 2018
At least I can watch Voyager without wanting to beat the fuck out of the writers and producer. Can't say the same about NuTrek because I want everyone involved in this mess slowly shoved through a fine steel mesh.
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- Jan 4, 2019
Voyager had the distinction of Andy Dick and Sarah Silverman not being the most annoying part of their respective episodes
Raoul_Duke
kiwifarms.net
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Ron Moore was a writer for the last season of Voyager. And Brannon Braga has said that in retrospect, while Moore was pitching episode ideas, he was really writing the first season of Battlestar.
- Joined
- Mar 5, 2021
Trek has the effect of putting its girls in temporal stasis.
I hope Picard runs into Rain Robinson in 2024. Yeah I know that timeline was erased so she doesn't remember meeting Voyager.
There's only one character I truly can't stand, and that's Starbuck.
Her acting is particularly bad in S3; almost as though Katee's being given shit to sell, and doesn't believe in what she's saying.
Felix is the upright guy who kept the resistance going. and she wanted to shoot him out an airlock.
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- Joined
- Aug 31, 2020
I generally like Starbuck as a character, but the writing has an annoying tendency to have the plot make her be right. Her character becomes more and more irrational as time goes on, which might make sense in a religious sense, but BSG doesn't really have a good grasp on the religious themes it wants to explore. The only long term writing flaw I dislike more is Baltar's plot armor. He's even more of a Gary Stu than Wesley Crusher. Baltar's got a thundercock with all the women he sleeps with.
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- Feb 27, 2019
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- Mar 21, 2019
BSG suffered from the writers having a cool hook in their miniseries and then literally not knowing what to do afterwards. They even admit their year long hiatus before the final season was because they were so far up a creek without a paddle they needed a break just to figure out how to correct their course into some kind of vaguely coherent ending. This is probably because the format they used for the miniseries is incompatible with the tone and style of the original BSG as a show, and while it's easy enough to bluff your way through 6 episodes retelling the opening of the story in an edgy format, it's not so easy to do the rest of the series. Especially if you don't want to just literally take the original series episode by episode and chuunify it.
Voyager and Enterprise suffered from being mediocre follow ups to excellence, which is why people usually are kinder to them on review than when they first watched the shows.
If anything, I think Lower Decks is actually the best of NuTrek, because it relies on the audience knowing and loving TNG era Star Trek, and doesn't insult or punish the audience for it. It's also the only show that maintains the visual look and feel of Star Trek, because it's set during TNG and has no excuse to use the gritty dark palette that Enterprise started. It's possible Strange New Worlds will be the first real Star Trek in a long time if it lives up to its promises, but it is still going to suffer from what Enterprise suffered from, because despite the name, there's just not many new worlds to explore pre-Kirk anymore. Which is a shame, because instead of realizing the actual root of the problem when Discovery and SNW both inevitably collapse, what execs will probably instead see is "Star Trek just still isn't profitable anymore"
Also if that one response post I saw to Picard's newest episode is accurate:
Voyager and Enterprise suffered from being mediocre follow ups to excellence, which is why people usually are kinder to them on review than when they first watched the shows.
Voyager was an incredibly safe and boring show nobody would have complained about if they hadn't tried to set it in a new and interesting setting. If Voyager had just been the continuing voyages of a random ship on the edge of explored space, people would have complained that the show 'returned to form' after DS9 did new and interesting things with the setting, but overall people would have been far less upset than getting essentially that when they were promised a show about a crew flung to the edge of the galaxy struggling to survive against the odds with no back up and a ship full of people who hate each other. The complaints were compounded by Janeway being forced to make apparently sadistic and psychotic decisions in-universe to justify maintaining status quo ooc. This too would have been avoided if they just never put Voyager in its ridiculous situation in the first place. Enterprise was less safe, but it was also destined to fail from its origins. While it ended as nostalgia bait, its original intention was to NuBSG up Star Trek. They took all of the 'Voyager was too safe and everyone liked each other too much' criticisms totally out of context and zeroed in on that. The writers were also tired of Star Trek and wanted to do something else. This is why in season 1 and promo work they shied away from saying "Star Trek: Enterprise" and only used "Enterprise" (Like Picard). The show was rightly criticized for its absolute lack of Star Trek feeling at the time until the writers gave in (seeing the poor ratings) and steered it back to Star Trek. The problem then was that there really isn't much to explore in pre-Kirk times for Star Trek, and like any prequel they're massively limited in their ability to write new and interesting encounters, upon which is the backbone of Star Trek. (That's why Discovery was always planned not to hang out long in pre-Kirk time, and why it later eventually jumped into the far future where nothing in Star Trek lore is established).
The problem with NuTrek, and why they won't be looked back upon kindly in the future, is that they're not mediocre, they're actively awful. It's not made by people burned out on Star Trek or trying to pioneer new ground but not knowing how to do so, but people who have no knowledge nor concern for Star Trek and are only interested in using it for their own agenda and designs. Agenda here doesn't even necessarily mean 'political' either. Many people probably don't even care about the politics, they just think having a Star Trek credit to their name will get them places in the industry.
Picard is written and built on hatred. Picard must be torn down, the Federation must be a failure, and Data must die because Patrick Stewart is angry about politics. Q can't crack jokes and must be on a deadly suicide mission because fascism/immigration/climate change isn't funny and the audience must take this all very seriously. Season three will no doubt also be dour and humorless because it will be their journey forward to fix the Federation and whatever else, and this solemn duty is something that cannot be made light of. Because it's written out of hatred, there's no love to spare on the franchise it's using, and no love to be had for it. It will never be looked on in a brighter light or have people come back in 2045 and say 'actually I think it was pretty neat' because it actively shuns being Star Trek, and any nostalgia bait is only brought in to be used to amplify the hatred Patrick feels.
Discovery I don't think is quite so fundamentally bad, but its problem is that the writing team keeps changing and things keep getting swapped around so abruptly that nothing makes sense, and not even on review can it even possibly make sense. You could salvage having a mary sue character who is Spock's sister and their parents' favorite, but you can't salvage the way season 1 was written to be a one-off, or the way season 2 changed the answer to its mystery 2 or 3 times midway through the season. It's basically just letting unskilled fanfic writers make a series by using their unedited fanfiction.
The problem with NuTrek, and why they won't be looked back upon kindly in the future, is that they're not mediocre, they're actively awful. It's not made by people burned out on Star Trek or trying to pioneer new ground but not knowing how to do so, but people who have no knowledge nor concern for Star Trek and are only interested in using it for their own agenda and designs. Agenda here doesn't even necessarily mean 'political' either. Many people probably don't even care about the politics, they just think having a Star Trek credit to their name will get them places in the industry.
Picard is written and built on hatred. Picard must be torn down, the Federation must be a failure, and Data must die because Patrick Stewart is angry about politics. Q can't crack jokes and must be on a deadly suicide mission because fascism/immigration/climate change isn't funny and the audience must take this all very seriously. Season three will no doubt also be dour and humorless because it will be their journey forward to fix the Federation and whatever else, and this solemn duty is something that cannot be made light of. Because it's written out of hatred, there's no love to spare on the franchise it's using, and no love to be had for it. It will never be looked on in a brighter light or have people come back in 2045 and say 'actually I think it was pretty neat' because it actively shuns being Star Trek, and any nostalgia bait is only brought in to be used to amplify the hatred Patrick feels.
Discovery I don't think is quite so fundamentally bad, but its problem is that the writing team keeps changing and things keep getting swapped around so abruptly that nothing makes sense, and not even on review can it even possibly make sense. You could salvage having a mary sue character who is Spock's sister and their parents' favorite, but you can't salvage the way season 1 was written to be a one-off, or the way season 2 changed the answer to its mystery 2 or 3 times midway through the season. It's basically just letting unskilled fanfic writers make a series by using their unedited fanfiction.
If anything, I think Lower Decks is actually the best of NuTrek, because it relies on the audience knowing and loving TNG era Star Trek, and doesn't insult or punish the audience for it. It's also the only show that maintains the visual look and feel of Star Trek, because it's set during TNG and has no excuse to use the gritty dark palette that Enterprise started. It's possible Strange New Worlds will be the first real Star Trek in a long time if it lives up to its promises, but it is still going to suffer from what Enterprise suffered from, because despite the name, there's just not many new worlds to explore pre-Kirk anymore. Which is a shame, because instead of realizing the actual root of the problem when Discovery and SNW both inevitably collapse, what execs will probably instead see is "Star Trek just still isn't profitable anymore"
Also if that one response post I saw to Picard's newest episode is accurate:
I hope that if the Borg Queen really did agree to 'only assimilate people when it's to their benefit' they go to the future and find that literally nothing has changed, because the Borg have always believed they're doing good. If you think the Borg are somehow maliciously committing conquest on the universe you don't understand the Borg at all. They believe they are pursuing perfection and the only way to do so is to gather all of the good and all of the potential of every other culture and put it together, and so by adding you to the collective they are bringing you with them on their quest to perfection. It's impossible for the Borg to do what Murderer Lady is suggesting and not eventually end up the way they are now.
But this is from the same show that unironically thought you could be sad about being assimilated while part of the collective, and could thus somehow be so sad about it that you cause the collective to crash. But only a small section of it, because not only do drones actually have individuality but their cubes do, too. So I might hope, but I don't believe.
But this is from the same show that unironically thought you could be sad about being assimilated while part of the collective, and could thus somehow be so sad about it that you cause the collective to crash. But only a small section of it, because not only do drones actually have individuality but their cubes do, too. So I might hope, but I don't believe.
- Joined
- Dec 3, 2013
Seems like the Borg thing isn’t the only trash moment in the episode.