Star Trek - Space: The Final Frontier

I think you're confusing allegory with symbolism and metaphors.

Because otherwise your statements about og SW are false as Lucas has been pretty clear about the Vietnam allegory all over them.


This was the conclusion to the Voyager episode "survival instinct" - send them back to the collective to live or let them die free.
I'm not, I was just exaggerating in the Star Wars case because it's still ultimately extremely simple and straightforward. It'd actually be pretty difficult to make a story with zero allegory.
By comparison, here's the scene from TNG where we saw Picard's mother:


It didn't need to bring up any childhood traumas, or go into detail about how tragic her death was - everything that we need to know is provided by Stewart's acting (admittedly with a big assist from the music), and it is infinitely more moving.
This alone decanonizes Picard. The dubbed line can't save it, because his response isn't one of confusion over why his imaginary version of his mother would be in the hallway instead of his actual mother, but instantaneous recognition and acceptance. He speaks with her - without making any indication of regret or her death - and when he looks away to look at Riker he expects her to still be there when he looks back, and is clearly choked up that she's gone. Picard is not prime timeline Star Trek canon - but then it already wasn't when it killed Data, because Star Trek Online was previously established as canonical and Data is alive there.
Which captain is overdone.

How about which medical officer would you want?
Bashir. The EMH has more skill and is capable of moving inhumanly fast and whatnot, but he's vulnerable to just being turned off or scrambled in some way. You might say "Yeah but Bashir is vulnerable to being shot and killed" but the EMH getting turned off/frozen/etc happened way more often than Bashir being incapacitated, especially when during a medical emergency.

You also won't be blinded by the shine off of his bald head.
 
To this day I cannot fathom why some people say the Prequels were "convoluted" and hard to understand.

I'm in the camp where I had no trouble following the plot, but also felt like it was needlessly convoluted. I think the pacing suffered for it, and the enemy/"enemy" factions were too numerous and did not have sufficient time to be fully realized. Also certain things like the Clone Troopers were extremely pointless and bogged down a script already rife with exposition. The list goes on.
 
I had another thought about Voyager that could have improved it greatly.

What if Janeway died in the first episode when a lot of the other crew did, and the captain of the Maquis ship (who is still a jaded former starfleet officer, although not Chakotay because Chakotay sucked.) was the objectively most qualified person to captain the ship out of the two merged crews, so they picked them to captain?
(To be clear, I don't think Beltran/Chakotay could have carried the series, he was one of the worst characters in Voyager proper... I'm mostly just talking about Chakotay's former Starfleet backstory just on a different character.)
You could even make this hypothetical character a woman if you *really* wanted to. It still would have been better,

Forcing a disillusioned former Starfleet officer who actually left Starfleet to join a terrorist organization, to captain a Starfleet vessel, just because he/she was objectively the best choice for the job, would have made Voyager SO MUCH better. Maybe they don't always suck the dick of the prime directive, and maybe they also aren't wildly inconsistent because they aren't sometimes written as Jeri Taylor's self-insert Mary Sue >_<
 
was the objectively most qualified person to captain the ship out of the two merged crews
IIRC that is why Janeway picked Chakotay and B'lena dispite being Marquis and having to demote that poor sap Starfleet chief (who is literally the last crewmember killed in the delta quadrant before Endgame.)
It didn't make much difference since the writers just made them act like starfleet from day one, except for the annual episode where they remember they're Marquis again. Even that was forgotten about once Seven joined.
 
IIRC that is why Janeway picked Chakotay and B'lena dispite being Marquis and having to demote that poor sap Starfleet chief (who is literally the last crewmember killed in the delta quadrant before Endgame.)
It didn't make much difference since the writers just made them act like starfleet from day one, except for the annual episode where they remember they're Marquis again. Even that was forgotten about once Seven joined.
I don't disagree with you here, the logic of Voyager proper was that Chakotay and B'elanna Tores were the most qualified people to fill the roles that they did. I'm just saying, Voyager in general would have been better if the original captain died, and it had to be run by the captain of the Maquis crew, because as a former starfleet officer, they were more qualified to captain Voyager than any other crewman left alive.

just not Chakotay though because he sucks.
 
In my own head the Borg aren't the result of a single catastrophic event, but the result of a delta quadrant race pushing towards a singularity and gradually giving up more and more responsibility and the running of lives and society to a universal computer network.
I definitely agree with @Newman's Lovechild proposed origin of the Borg being an ordinary, nobody race that spiraled out of control in their effort to improve and unify. It not only fits with some hints we had in Voyager, but it also makes them much more horrifying with the slippery slope implications.
I always headcanoned the Borg as having started out as a regular race, but one that was already rather collectivized and devoid of personality to begin with. Essentially a race that speedran from monkeys with sticks to warp drive in a fraction of the time it takes a regular race to do so.

Some of this is my own personal bias, which I will be the first to admit is kind of extreme. The idea that the Borg ever once had art, games, literature, or anything of the things we generally associate with culture completely destroys their menace for me. However, think about it for a moment; if the PreBorg really valued things like art and cultural heritage, wouldn't they look for and assimilate that from other species as well? The fact that they apparently hold no regard for expression at all suggests to me that they never learned the value of it in the first place.

I know a race that never invented art or culture but eventually made it to cybernetics and spaceships sounds kind of silly, like how HG Wells stated the Martians never invented the wheel despite being more advanced than humanity, but its hardly the silliest thing that's been suggested in Trek.

Reckless my ass. He is as professionaly as Picard, but isn't afraid to get his hands dirty.
He was definitely reckless on some occasions, such as the time he gassed a Maquis colony just to play tit for tat with them for poisoning a Cardassian colony. The colonists all escape before the toxic shit spreads, but I have no idea how considering he gave them like minutes of warning before opening fire.

The entirety of In The Pale Moonlight is also reckless as fuck. He even admits it in his log, and states plainly that if he fucked up at all in this plan, it could actually cause the Romulans to side with the Dominion which would pretty much be game over for the Alpha Quadrant. Its a great episode, and one of the reasons why Sisko is fucking awesome, but even the man himself said the idea was an insane risk and he got damn lucky that Garak had a backup plan.
 
I think my reasoning is being rejected because people are looking at things from a "fuck that was cool to see" rationale and not from a leader of men mindset. There's a huge difference and no one wants to follow someone that will waste their lives instead of spending them.
 
Which captain is overdone.

How about which medical officer would you want?
Bones, all the way. Even better if you give him the EMH as an assistant. Their combined bedside manner would be enough to get even the most stubborn patient to shut the fuck up and take their damned medicine!
 
a warm and maybe even well-lit interior like in TNG
BTW I think the Enterprise D interior looks the best. Voyager may look almost as good.

TOS enterprise interior kind of looks like modern office space, but there's a still some Jetsons-y vibe.

Of course the interior of the ship in STD looks the worst from what I've seen. Like some depressing lab.
 
I know a race that never invented art or culture but eventually made it to cybernetics and spaceships sounds kind of silly, like how HG Wells stated the Martians never invented the wheel despite being more advanced than humanity, but its hardly the silliest thing that's been suggested in Trek.

I think you'd be intrested in a Short Story by "Harry Turtledove - The Road not Taken" We are the species who missed a development during our own technical advancement and it made space travel incredibly difficult for us but most other species discover it around the Roman - Early modern era (15/16 hundreds) so all tend to focus on space travel and as a result there technilogical development stalls and goes in other directions...
 
Sisko, all day long.

I always headcanoned the Borg as having started out as a regular race, but one that was already rather collectivized and devoid of personality to begin with. Essentially a race that speedran from monkeys with sticks to warp drive in a fraction of the time it takes a regular race to do so.

I like the idea, although...

The idea that the Borg ever once had art, games, literature, or anything of the things we generally associate with culture completely destroys their menace for me.

For me it increases the horror. It's like a big offshoot of personality that got wiped out as they were transformed into component drones for their ruling internet. Their history and culture is just forgotten because the cold machine deems it irrelevant. And they're going to do the same to you.

It puts me in mind of degenerative neural conditions like Alzheimers, but applied to an entire species. What makes you, you, an individual, is lost.
 
For me it increases the horror. It's like a big offshoot of personality that got wiped out as they were transformed into component drones for their ruling internet. Their history and culture is just forgotten because the cold machine deems it irrelevant. And they're going to do the same to you.

It puts me in mind of degenerative neural conditions like Alzheimers, but applied to an entire species. What makes you, you, an individual, is lost.

Foreboding isn't it.
 
I like both the TNG and DS9 interiors. Voyager's are also fine but they're basically just TNG again but with higher tech (IRL). I liked that DS9 did a different look that wasn't as bright and white as the other looks, but still had a consistently 'warm' feeling to it, and felt Star Trek. Also, unlike more modern 'dark lighting' shows, you could always see clearly despite the fact that the station was meant to be dimly lit.
 
Apparently someone on the production team did eventually realize they fucked up, as there's a hilariously awkward dubbed-in line from Picard about how he used to imagine his mother as an old woman offering him tea.
Oh that is hilarious they tried to explain that. Because out of all the various continuity fuckups they made that's not even the worst one.












They could have salvaged this one if they said that the borg lose every-time they borgify everything, but they are shit writers so....




And you know what the kicker is? THEIR HALF ASSED EXPLANATION DOESN'T WORK BECAUSE HE HAS HER OLD WOMAN PICTURE IN GENERATIONS!



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This has to be the worst written continuity out of anything ive ever seen before. Just..... absolutely half assed to the 9th degree.



Here's the real ending.
 
I like both the TNG and DS9 interiors. Voyager's are also fine but they're basically just TNG again but with higher tech (IRL). I liked that DS9 did a different look that wasn't as bright and white as the other looks, but still had a consistently 'warm' feeling to it, and felt Star Trek. Also, unlike more modern 'dark lighting' shows, you could always see clearly despite the fact that the station was meant to be dimly lit.

You get the feeling that the DS9 sets where Alien, like a species we can understand and share an environment with but has a few small preferential differences like Heat and Light levels and a differing cultural aesthetic so it wasn't too alien but it was close enough to give you a sense of uniqueness.

The "Moody Dark" we see on today's Ttek is just a really bad choice when it comes to art direction, in TOS they chose to wisper at some points in battle because it was to remind people of the Submarine Warfair films and TV they got for a while after WW2 and sell it as Ship to Ship Battle.

Today they chose Dark as they think it sets the tone, and it can but not in the way they do it the way they do make me think Starfleet has forgotten to change the bulb after the last ship station exploded.
 

I'm in the camp where I had no trouble following the plot, but also felt like it was needlessly convoluted. I think the pacing suffered for it, and the enemy/"enemy" factions were too numerous and did not have sufficient time to be fully realized. Also certain things like the Clone Troopers were extremely pointless and bogged down a script already rife with exposition. The list goes on.
Thanks for bringing Alex in, I finally have an excuse to post this

 
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I would not be surprised if they actually have not even watched 5 hours of TNG. They probably just peruse Memory Alpha when they need to re introduce a character.

The thing I don’t get is why they don’t just admit that? “We don’t actually like Star Trek, we’re just doing this because x woke reason”

Why even pretend to respect the IP at all when they clearly don’t?
 
Which captain is overdone.

How about which medical officer would you want?
My vote goes to Phlox because I think he's the only doctor who would commit severe medical malpractise to save my life
Would Bones grow a clone of you from a sentient organism then raise that clone to kill it to harvest its brain? I think not.
 
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