SCOTUS to Overturn Roe V Wade according to draft opinion obtained by Politico - And here we go

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The Supreme Court has voted to strike down the landmark Roe v. Wade decision, according to an initial draft majority opinion written by Justice Samuel Alito circulated inside the court and obtained by POLITICO.
The draft opinion is a full-throated, unflinching repudiation of the 1973 decision which guaranteed federal constitutional protections of abortion rights and a subsequent 1992 decision – Planned Parenthood v. Casey – that largely maintained the right. “Roe was egregiously wrong from the start,” Alito writes.
“We hold that Roe and Casey must be overruled,” he writes in the document, labeled as the “Opinion of the Court.” “It is time to heed the Constitution and return the issue of abortion to the people’s elected representatives.”


Deliberations on controversial cases have in the past been fluid. Justices can and sometimes do change their votes as draft opinions circulate and major decisions can be subject to multiple drafts and vote-trading, sometimes until just days before a decision is unveiled. The court’s holding will not be final until it is published, likely in the next two months.
The immediate impact of the ruling as drafted in February would be to end a half-century guarantee of federal constitutional protection of abortion rights and allow each state to decide whether to restrict or ban abortion. It’s unclear if there have been subsequent changes to the draft.
No draft decision in the modern history of the court has been disclosed publicly while a case was still pending. The unprecedented revelation is bound to intensify the debate over what was already the most controversial case on the docket this term.
The draft opinion offers an extraordinary window into the justices’ deliberations in one of the most consequential cases before the court in the last five decades. Some court-watchers predicted that the conservative majority would slice away at abortion rights without flatly overturning a 49-year-old precedent. The draft shows that the court is looking to reject Roe’s logic and legal protections.
Roe was egregiously wrong from the start. Its reasoning was exceptionally weak, and the decision has had damaging consequences. And far from bringing about a national settlement of the abortion issue, Roe and Casey have enflamed debate and deepened division.”
Justice Samuel Alito in an initial draft majority opinion
A person familiar with the court’s deliberations said that four of the other Republican-appointed justices – Clarence Thomas, Neil Gorsuch, Brett Kavanaugh and Amy Coney Barrett – had voted with Alito in the conference held among the justices after hearing oral arguments in December, and that line-up remains unchanged as of this week.


The three Democratic-appointed justices – Stephen Breyer, Sonia Sotomayor and Elena Kagan – are working on one or more dissents, according to the person. How Chief Justice John Roberts will ultimately vote, and whether he will join an already written opinion or draft his own, is unclear.
The document, labeled as a first draft of the majority opinion, includes a notation that it was circulated among the justices on Feb. 10. If the Alito draft is adopted, it would rule in favor of Mississippi in the closely watched case over that state’s attempt to ban most abortions after 15 weeks of pregnancy.
A Supreme Court spokesperson declined to comment or make another representative of the court available to answer questions about the draft document.
POLITICO received a copy of the draft opinion from a person familiar with the court’s proceedings in the Mississippi case along with other details supporting the authenticity of the document. The draft opinion runs 98 pages, including a 31-page appendix of historical state abortion laws. The document is replete with citations to previous court decisions, books and other authorities, and includes 118 footnotes. The appearances and timing of this draft are consistent with court practice.
The disclosure of Alito’s draft majority opinion – a rare breach of Supreme Court secrecy and tradition around its deliberations – comes as all sides in the abortion debate are girding for the ruling. Speculation about the looming decision has been intense since the December oral arguments indicated a majority was inclined to support the Mississippi law.
Under longstanding court procedures, justices hold preliminary votes on cases shortly after argument and assign a member of the majority to write a draft of the court’s opinion. The draft is often amended in consultation with other justices, and in some cases the justices change their votes altogether, creating the possibility that the current alignment on Dobbs v. Jackson Women’s Health Organization could change.
The chief justice typically assigns majority opinions when he is in the majority. When he is not, that decision is typically made by the most senior justice in the majority.

‘Exceptionally weak’​

A George W. Bush appointee who joined the court in 2006, Alito argues that the 1973 abortion rights ruling was an ill-conceived and deeply flawed decision that invented a right mentioned nowhere in the Constitution and unwisely sought to wrench the contentious issue away from the political branches of government.
Alito’s draft ruling would overturn a decision by the New Orleans-based 5th Circuit Court of Appeals that found the Mississippi law ran afoul of Supreme Court precedent by seeking to effectively ban abortions before viability.

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Roe’s “survey of history ranged from the constitutionally irrelevant to the plainly incorrect,” Alito continues, adding that its reasoning was “exceptionally weak,” and that the original decision has had “damaging consequences.”
“The inescapable conclusion is that a right to abortion is not deeply rooted in the Nation’s history and traditions,” Alito writes.
Alito approvingly quotes a broad range of critics of the Roe decision. He also points to liberal icons such as the late Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg and Harvard Law Professor Laurence Tribe, who at certain points in their careers took issue with the reasoning in Roe or its impact on the political process.
Alito’s skewering of Roe and the endorsement of at least four other justices for that unsparing critique is also a measure of the court’s rightward turn in recent decades. Roe was decided 7-2 in 1973, with five Republican appointees joining two justices nominated by Democratic presidents.
The overturning of Roe would almost immediately lead to stricter limits on abortion access in large swaths of the South and Midwest, with about half of the states set to immediately impose broad abortion bans. Any state could still legally allow the procedure.
“The Constitution does not prohibit the citizens of each State from regulating or prohibiting abortion,” the draft concludes. “Roe and Casey arrogated that authority. We now overrule those decisions and return that authority to the people and their elected representatives.”
The draft contains the type of caustic rhetorical flourishes Alito is known for and that has caused Roberts, his fellow Bush appointee, some discomfort in the past.
At times, Alito’s draft opinion takes an almost mocking tone as it skewers the majority opinion in Roe, written by Justice Harry Blackmun, a Richard Nixon appointee who died in 1999.
Roe expressed the ‘feel[ing]’ that the Fourteenth Amendment was the provision that did the work, but its message seemed to be that the abortion right could be found somewhere in the Constitution and that specifying its exact location was not of paramount importance,” Alito writes.
Alito declares that one of the central tenets of Roe, the “viability” distinction between fetuses not capable of living outside the womb and those which can, “makes no sense.”
In several passages, he describes doctors and nurses who terminate pregnancies as “abortionists.”
When Roberts voted with liberal jurists in 2020 to block a Louisiana law imposing heavier regulations on abortion clinics, his solo concurrence used the more neutral term “abortion providers.” In contrast, Justice Clarence Thomas used the word “abortionist” 25 times in a solo dissent in the same case.


Alito’s use of the phrase “egregiously wrong” to describe Roe echoes language Mississippi Solicitor General Scott Stewart used in December in defending his state’s ban on abortions after 15 weeks of pregnancy. The phrase was also contained in an opinion Kavanaugh wrote as part of a 2020 ruling that jury convictions in criminal cases must be unanimous.
In that opinion, Kavanaugh labeled two well-known Supreme Court decisions “egregiously wrong when decided”: the 1944 ruling upholding the detention of Japanese Americans during World War II, Korematsu v. United States, and the 1896 decision that blessed racial segregation under the rubric of “separate but equal,” Plessy v. Ferguson.
The high court has never formally overturned Korematsu, but did repudiate the decision in a 2018 ruling by Roberts that upheld then-President Donald Trump’s travel ban policy.

The legacy of Plessy v. Ferguson​

Plessy remained the law of the land for nearly six decades until the court overturned it with the Brown v. Board of Education school desegregation ruling in 1954.
Quoting Kavanaugh, Alito writes of Plessy: “It was ‘egregiously wrong,’ on the day it was decided.”
Alito’s draft opinion includes, in small type, a list of about two pages’ worth of decisions in which the justices overruled prior precedents – in many instances reaching results praised by liberals.
The implication that allowing states to outlaw abortion is on par with ending legal racial segregation has been hotly disputed. But the comparison underscores the conservative justices’ belief that Roe is so flawed that the justices should disregard their usual hesitations about overturning precedent and wholeheartedly renounce it.
Alito’s draft opinion ventures even further into this racially sensitive territory by observing in a footnote that some early proponents of abortion rights also had unsavory views in favor of eugenics.
“Some such supporters have been motivated by a desire to suppress the size of the African American population,” Alito writes. “It is beyond dispute that Roe has had that demographic effect. A highly disproportionate percentage of aborted fetuses are black.”
Alito writes that by raising the point he isn’t casting aspersions on anyone. “For our part, we do not question the motives of either those who have supported and those who have opposed laws restricting abortion,” he writes.
Alito also addresses concern about the impact the decision could have on public discourse. “We cannot allow our decisions to be affected by any extraneous influences such as concern about the public’s reaction to our work,” Alito writes. “We do not pretend to know how our political system or society will respond to today’s decision overruling Roe and Casey. And even if we could foresee what will happen, we would have no authority to let that knowledge influence our decision.”


In the main opinion in the 1992 Casey decision, Justices Sandra Day O’Connor, Anthony Kennedy and Davis Souter warned that the court would pay a “terrible price” for overruling Roe, despite criticism of the decision from some in the public and the legal community.
“While it has engendered disapproval, it has not been unworkable,” the three justices wrote then. “An entire generation has come of age free to assume Roe‘s concept of liberty in defining the capacity of women to act in society, and to make reproductive decisions; no erosion of principle going to liberty or personal autonomy has left Roe‘s central holding a doctrinal remnant.”
When Dobbs was argued in December, Roberts seemed out of sync with the other conservative justices, as he has been in a number of cases including one challenging the Affordable Care Act.
At the argument session last fall, Roberts seemed to be searching for a way to uphold Mississippi’s 15-week ban without completely abandoning the Roe framework.
“Viability, it seems to me, doesn’t have anything to do with choice. But, if it really is an issue about choice, why is 15 weeks not enough time?” Roberts asked during the arguments. “The thing that is at issue before us today is 15 weeks.”

Nods to conservative colleagues​

While Alito’s draft opinion doesn’t cater much to Roberts’ views, portions of it seem intended to address the specific interests of other justices. One passage argues that social attitudes toward out-of-wedlock pregnancies “have changed drastically” since the 1970s and that increased demand for adoption makes abortion less necessary.
Those points dovetail with issues that Barrett – a Trump appointee and the court’s newest member – raised at the December arguments. She suggested laws allowing people to surrender newborn babies on a no-questions-asked basis mean carrying a pregnancy to term doesn’t oblige one to engage in child rearing.
“Why don’t the safe haven laws take care of that problem?” asked Barrett, who adopted two of her seven children.
Much of Alito’s draft is devoted to arguing that widespread criminalization of abortion during the 19th and early 20th century belies the notion that a right to abortion is implied in the Constitution.
The conservative justice attached to his draft a 31-page appendix listing laws passed to criminalize abortion during that period. Alito claims “an unbroken tradition of prohibiting abortion on pain of criminal punishment…from the earliest days of the common law until 1973.”


“Until the latter part of the 20th century, there was no support in American law for a constitutional right to obtain an abortion. Zero. None. No state constitutional provision had recognized such a right,” Alito adds.
Alito’s draft argues that rights protected by the Constitution but not explicitly mentioned in it – so-called unenumerated rights – must be strongly rooted in U.S. history and tradition. That form of analysis seems at odds with several of the court’s recent decisions, including many of its rulings backing gay rights.
“We hold that Roe and Casey must be overruled. The Constitution makes no reference to abortion, and no such right is implicitly protected by any constitutional provision....”
Justice Samuel Alito in an initial draft majority opinion
Liberal justices seem likely to take issue with Alito’s assertion in the draft opinion that overturning Roe would not jeopardize other rights the courts have grounded in privacy, such as the right to contraception, to engage in private consensual sexual activity and to marry someone of the same sex.
“We emphasize that our decision concerns the constitutional right to abortion and no other right,” Alito writes. “Nothing in this opinion should be understood to cast doubt on precedents that do not concern abortion.”
Alito’s draft opinion rejects the idea that abortion bans reflect the subjugation of women in American society. “Women are not without electoral or political power,” he writes. “The percentage of women who register to vote and cast ballots is consistently higher than the percentage of men who do so.”
The Supreme Court remains one of Washington’s most secretive institutions, priding itself on protecting the confidentiality of its internal deliberations.
“At the Supreme Court, those who know don’t talk, and those who talk don’t know,” Ginsburg was fond of saying.
That tight-lipped reputation has eroded somewhat in recent decades due to a series of books by law clerks, law professors and investigative journalists. Some of these authors clearly had access to draft opinions such as the one obtained by POLITICO, but their books emerged well after the cases in question were resolved.
The justices held their final arguments of the current term on Wednesday. The court has set a series of sessions over the next two months to release rulings in its still-unresolved cases, including the Mississippi abortion case.
 
I don't care about the history Hollywood Hulk Hogan has with this site but if he is going to continue to derail this thread with weak ass baits and weaker arguments,maybe we should have kept his dumbass threadbanned
That's gay. Either hit the ignore button (that's gay) or just start teeing off on him. What's he going to do? Piss his pants and forget his own beloved mother's face? Probably. Why should that bother you?
 
That's gay. Either hit the ignore button (that's gay) or just start teeing off on him. What's he going to do? Piss his pants and forget his own beloved mother's face? Probably. Why should that bother you?

Damn. Pissing off Hollywood Hulk Hogan to dementia does sound like a good option. Yeah but I really doubt I could pull that off if other's haven't been able to.
 
Come on HHH, you're smart enough to know rights need to be equally applicable to be a right.

It's not a right if everyone can't have it. It's just a privilege for some of the animals when that happens which amounts to a backdoor law enforced against the people, and cannot be a right. This is also why the ERA is a crock of shit. Women already have full rights post voting and anything more is just privilege.

The constitution isn't about privilege for the few and backdoor laws, it's about what the government isn't allowed to do to all of us.

If the government isn't allowed to know about your sister's abortion, it isn't allowed to know about my vaccine status, it isn't allowed to know about crunklord's drug use, it isn't allowed to know about commiedickgirl's mental health, and it isn't allowed to know about your crabs problem.

Except that's not how it be, the last 2.5 years have conclusively proved it, and it's time to stop pretending Roe enshrines a right in any sense of the word since none of the rest of us have this supposed right to medical privacy.

Get back to me when the democrats propose a universal medical privacy amendment to the constitution without ANY gotchas, I'll pound the pavement for that right. It won't happen because the butterfly that would unleash if it was ratified drops a MIRV on basically half the federal code, but a man can dream.
 
As I entered my 30s and peers started deciding it was time to start a family, I noticed a curious phenomenon popping up. These financially stable, very well "prepared" couples could not let go of birth control. They had been so completely psyopped into believing that the normal outcome of sex was a "failure" and so psyopped into thinking of themselves as people who could never be permitted to fail, they had to wrestle mightily with their egos to even consider doing something "bad" like having completely "unsafe" sex. In a stable monogamous marriage where they allegedly wanted to have kids.
As in the pill or condoms or the old school pull out?
 
As in the pill or condoms or the old school pull out?
Whatever they were personally used to. They felt it was basically a sin to stop using it and open themselves to the possibility of actually achieving pregnancy.

There are more stuffed up weirdos like this out there than we realize, thanks to school sex ed hatchet jobs.
 
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That's gay. Either hit the ignore button (that's gay) or just start teeing off on him. What's he going to do? Piss his pants and forget his own beloved mother's face? Probably. Why should that bother you?
just call him nifgger faggot everytime he interacts with you and you are save from him.
 

This is pretty rich coming from the pioneer of IVF, who has always been very clear that for the purposes of his own practice and research, he did not view the thousands of fertilised zygotes and embryos he destroyed as anything like a human life, and was vigorously imposed to ethical constraints on his research and practice prior to implantation.

It is mainly due to his influence that the UK laws around assisted reproduction have clinics send frozen embryos in the hundreds of thousands to medical incineration every year. “Snowflake adoption” is not possible here; the genetic parents either have them implanted within five years or burnt as an unwanted side effect of medical treatment. You cannot slide a cigarette paper between the ethics of first trimester abortion and the disposal of frozen embryos, but only one of those things is ever treated as a moral issue in mainstream discussion. (In all fairness to Justice Barrett, she has previously published on the ethics of IVF and its incompatibility with pro life positions. Some Catholics remain aware of the church’s total prohibition on assisted reproduction.)

Winston successfully disassociated the ethical issues of human reproduction from his made-up disease of “infertility” in the popular imagination here, and a whole gray industry of paying for babies and throwing out the ones you don’t want became miraculously profitable overnight. In the same cities where people are currently protesting outside the maternity hospitals about abortions, only a couple of miles down the road the large private facility that flushes intentionally created embryos and practises selective reduction remains peacefully unmolested, because “the treatment of infertility” simply doesn’t cross the public imagination as an industry that creates and disposes of industrial amounts of potential human lives every year.

The parents who have been refused permission to adopt out snowflakes, to have snowflakes carried by surrogate where one parent died, whose snowflakes were incinerated in accordance with law whilst they were legally barred from having them implanted because “clinic closed due to covid”, they also experienced loss. Winston shroud waving the very real loss that is miscarriage to virtue signal about his industry, and drum up yet more business for it, is intensely distasteful.
 
It's weird to me how health teachers laugh at the "crazy old wives' tale" about withdrawal preventing pregnancy...while being absolutely fanatical about condoms and hail their effectiveness.

Why the condom worship? It makes sex feel worse and it's only marginally more effective than withdrawal. STD prevention via condom doesn't matter that much as long as you are regularly tested or only have sex monogamously. All of the common hetero STDs are either "get pharmaceutical treatment and you're good" (gonorrhea, chlamydia, syphillis) or "condoms don't prevent this" (herpes, HPV). The only people for whom a condom is potentially life-or-death, realistically, are the highly promiscuous or the homosexual/trans demographics, where hep C and HIV are serious risks.

Make no mistake: even the methods of contraception you were taught, and the level of effectiveness you were taught they have, are highly political. They are not taught in a way that comports with objective reality, but in a way that has been (since the 90s) designed specifically to best protect the small number of boys who will go on to have sex with men, all while hurting hetero relationships by being seen as practically mandatory for the newly sexual: condoms feel less good for both partners, are often chemically irritating to women, and require men to thrust harder and faster in order to achieve climax, setting up bad habits for life.
condoms are being pushed hard because condoms are the only contraception method that also protects against STDs.
they're also dirt cheap, and they do not cause any of the ugly side effects that medical stuff like the pill comes with (change hormone levels which can affect your mood, emotional state, thought process and decision making)
 
Yeah and that was 80 years ago. Get with the times. I know you GOP lovers want to bring us back to the 1700s but most people don't want that. The future is now, old man.
Gramps took a double dose of memantine with a viagra chaser and got his dander up enough to bless us with an effortpost. He's really doing much better these last few days, don't you guys think? Hopefully he's still pretty with it when his son's wife's boyfriend's son wins the Heisman, y'know? Tyrique has really done the family proud.

I'll bet the sundowning was pretty fucking epic half an hour after writing this, too. How many times have Grampa's cats heard the story of how Orange Man killed Nigger Jesus with ivermectin, do you figure? But Mrs. Fuzzybottom and Sir Arpurr Digsby still love their daddy don't they yes they do huh? Yes they do. Even when he sits half the morning crying weak, impotent tears for no earthly reason he could explain, his furbabies are always with him.

#goals
Lol the autist whose crippling autism has turned him into a puritanical, GOP-simping boomer is calling me "Gramps". That's adorable. I know you have a fetish for obese, elderly men, but you should stop flaunting it around here. As I have told your fellow boomers, the future is now, old man.
In three years after your fellow troons off themselves you will still never be a woman
Sorry to ruin your fantasy of me being a troon that dominates you and your fellow alt-right manlets, but I am a dude.
 
Condoms being a plot to promote homosexuality is a new level of retardation, even for this place

:story:
Make no mistake: even the methods of contraception you were taught, and the level of effectiveness you were taught they have, are highly political. They are not taught in a way that comports with objective reality, but in a way that has been (since the 90s) designed specifically to best protect the small number of boys who will go on to have sex with men, all while hurting hetero relationships by being seen as practically mandatory for the newly sexual: condoms feel less good for both partners, are often chemically irritating to women, and require men to thrust harder and faster in order to achieve climax, setting up bad habits for life.
 
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