Metal Gear

[Soycast Guy]

Any of you think Konami will actually bring the HD collection back on stores? Probably not, because after all why spend time removing a few clips from a game when you can just make more pachinko and disappointment instead?

 

[SSj_Ness (Yiffed)]

Any of you think Konami will actually bring the HD collection back on stores? Probably not, because after all why spend time removing a few clips from a game when you can just make more pachinko and disappointment instead?

What do you mean by this?

 

[Dom Cruise]

Any of you think Konami will actually bring the HD collection back on stores? Probably not, because after all why spend time removing a few clips from a game when you can just make more pachinko and disappointment instead?

Nope, Konami gives no fucks about this series or it's fans, we will never see another official release of these games unless some outside party steps in and makes it happen.

I'd bet Konami leadership holds a personal grudge against Kojima, there's no way they'd go through the effort to relicense the stock footage let alone spend the money.

The only hope is if a Sony or even a Microsoft just buys the ip outright, even then Konami would probably try to sabotage it by asking for absurd amounts of money, the leadership of Konami are genuinely shitty people in my opinion, this isn't as simple a deal as "well pachinko just makes more money" they are just awful people, if all they cared about was money we'd see an actual re-release happen instead of it just being left to rot.

The best bet is for fans to keep the series alive with word of mouth and emulation/modding the PC releases, same deal with Silent Hill.

It's not impossible someone will step in to buy the ip as it's still a valuable ip, but I wouldn't hold my breath, I can absolutely see Konami just sitting on the ip out of spite.

 

[Milwaukee Macho Man]

What do you mean by this?

Some of the footage they used somewhere in MGS2 or MGS3 was apparently licensed. Fuck me if I could tell you what it was at this point though.

It's doubtful that they will re-release it, as the HD Collection probably wasn't selling that much a decade later. If you don't have the HD collection or can't find a used copy I'd just pirate it at this point.

 

[Soycast Guy]

What do you mean by this?

There are a few clips in MGS3 that Konami needs to renew the license for or remove entirely. Historical clips, I think it was Cold War stuff.

 

[Dom Cruise]

Am I correct in my assessment that Kojima actually listens too much to his haters?

MGS3's story was much more straight forward than 2's, though he avoided continuing the story from 2, eventually he did that and it sucked.

MGSV and Ground Zeroes attempted to placate the "MGS is a movie" haters by turning it into "Grand Theft Metal Gear" which even if the execution didn't quite pull that off still resorted in much more gameplay than previous entries, MGSV took me a solid month to beat whereas I used to be able to beat MGS1 and MGS2 in a single night.

Death Stranding as well has loads of actual gameplay.

The trouble though is part of what made Kojima's games cool wasn't just the large number of cutscenes, it was that even the gameplay segments had very tight, cinematic style pacing, MGS1 and MGS2 are so unlike the more typical "level 1, level 2" pacing of most games around that time.

With MGSV and Death Stranding, the routine elements of flying to and from Mother Base, or waltzing into your safe room, taking a shit, a shower and going to sleep etc in Death Stranding and doing all this over and over and over and over, it just ruins the tight pacing his games used to have, I kind of hate all that stuff lol, putting "simulator aspects" in a Kojima game is just a really bizarre thing.

The dude really needs to pair it down and go back to basics, return to something in the vein of Snatcher, Policenauts, MGS1 and MGS2, enough of this open world junk, a genre Kojima clearly doesn't really understand given how empty and not worth exploring they feel.

The best thing he did since the 2000s was P.T. because it cut all the crap and just offered an intense as hell experience with none of the fat, imagine if Silent Hills had been made and you constantly had to stop so Norman Reedus can take a crap lmao.

 

[Milwaukee Macho Man]

Am I correct in my assessment that Kojima actually listens too much to his haters?

No, because the biggest complaint about MGS V was it's big empty world and he doubled down on that with Death Stranding.

Kojima does whatever the fuck he wants. He made MGS3 because he always wanted to make a spy game. He set it in the jungle because he didn't want to do yet another facility. MGS3 being "straightforward" wasn't the outlier at this point, MGS2 being complicated was the outlier. (and I'd argue MGS4, Peace Walker and MGS V are pretty straight forward as well, they just have a lot of ass pull retcons and goofy shit)

He didn't go open world because people bitched about MGS 4 having way too many cutscenes and not enough gameplay. He'd been talking about wanting to do open world games since at least 2003. He heavily praised Vice City when it came out and even put a reference of it in the MGS3 reveal trailer.

This feels like cope to try and absolve Kojima of his misfires after the fact.

Also, PT had cryptic shit that ground the game to a halt before people worked together to figure it out IIRC so I wouldn't exactly say there wouldn't have been a lot of stop and go if Silent Hills actually came out.

I agree he needs to go back to his fundementals, but he's been playing "catch up" with the industry for a decade now when it comes to open world. I'd expect his next game to probably be more in the vein of an Uncharted than an MGS1 or MGS2 if that trend continued.

 

[Dom Cruise]

No, because the biggest complaint about MGS V was it's big empty world and he doubled down on that with Death Stranding.

Kojima does whatever the fuck he wants. He made MGS3 because he always wanted to make a spy game. He set it in the jungle because he didn't want to do yet another facility. MGS3 being "straightforward" wasn't the outlier at this point, MGS2 being complicated was the outlier. (and I'd argue MGS4, Peace Walker and MGS V are pretty straight forward as well, they just have a lot of ass pull retcons and goofy shit)

He didn't go open world because people bitched about MGS 4 having way too many cutscenes and not enough gameplay. He'd been talking about wanting to do open world games since at least 2003. He heavily praised Vice City when it came out and even put a reference of it in the MGS3 reveal trailer.

You raise some good points, I forgot about the Vice City reference in the MGS3 trailer, I'm sure open world was something Kojima was interested in, but I really don't see how making sure his games are chock full 'o button pushing and stick waggling instead of watching a 30 minute cutscene every 15 minutes isn't in reaction to the "movie" accusations, the guy has to be aware of them and it had to have colored his thinking.

I mean why the simulator aspects like taking a shit, washing Venom Snake off in the shower? It's like he's saying "SEE! SEE! IT'S NOT A MOVIE, IT'S LIKE REAL LIFE!"

His games always had crazy attention to detail but taking a shit, a shower and going to sleep? really?

Also stuff like dropping the Codec completely in MGSV, how was that not because people complained about too much dialog?

Also from what I understand MGS4 is the way it is because he received death threats, that was definitely a game made with pressure from fans in mind and you can tell his heart wasn't in it, hence all the lazy retcons, again, stuff like retconning Vamp as not being supernatural definitely had to come from dislike of fan backlash and not just "doing whatever the fuck he wants" if that were the case he would have gone even crazier instead of backpedaling so much.

This feels like cope to try and absolve Kojima of his misfires after the fact.

I'm not trying to absolve of him of anything, a misfire is still a misfire no matter what the reasoning was.

I just think he should have been more willing to own his idiosyncrasies instead of often seeming so apologetic, we wind up getting the worst of both worlds, like with Death Stranding, plenty of Kojima weirdness but built around something that feels like the wrong fit, he tries to please everyone and winds up pleasing almost no one.

Also, PT had cryptic shit that ground the game to a halt before people worked together to figure it out IIRC so I wouldn't exactly say there wouldn't have been a lot of stop and go if Silent Hills actually came out.

True, there was the meta game, I forgot I didn't actually beat it, but I'm agreeing with you, I'm sure Silent Hills would have had stop and go stuff too, probably inspired by the apartment hub in SH4.

I agree he needs to go back to his fundementals, but he's been playing "catch up" with the industry for a decade now when it comes to open world. I'd expect his next game to probably be more in the vein of an Uncharted than an MGS1 or MGS2 if that trend continued.

Something like Uncharted is actually a better fit for him than trying to do an open world.

 

[Milwaukee Macho Man]

His games always had crazy attention to detail but taking a shit, a shower and going to sleep? really?

Nigga, you had to eat and change camo in MGS3, you had to handle stress in MGS4, you had to run a mercenary company in Peace Walker. Having to jump into a shower or a puddle every 3 days is hardly that big of a thing.

You never had to sleep or take a shit in MGS V, WTF are you even going on about?

I just think he should have been more willing to own his idiosyncrasies instead of often seeming so apologetic

How can you play *any* of his games and actually utter this?

 

[SSj_Ness (Yiffed)]

Nigga, you had to eat and change camo in MGS3

That really seemed like a cool idea, but changing it constantly was annoying. It's one of the biggest problems with the gameplay, just behind not having a proper radar. If they ever remake it then it needs to fix those issues badly.

 

[Dom Cruise]

Nigga, you had to eat and change camo in MGS3, you had to handle stress in MGS4, you had to run a mercenary company in Peace Walker. Having to jump into a shower or a puddle every 3 days is hardly that big of a thing.

You never had to sleep or take a shit in MGS V, WTF are you even going on about?

Sleeping and taking a shit is referring to Death Stranding, yeah, you ate food in MGS3, but that didn't get in your way as much as later simulator like aspects do.

The biggest issue in MGSV was simply having to fly to and from Mother Base over and over and over and over (how long would a helicopter ride from the Indian ocean to Afghanistan take?)

My point is these things break up the cinematic flow his games used to have, my favorite part of Phantom Pain is actually the whole opening sequence because it's one of the only times the game has that cinematic flair that used to be Kojima's whole forte.

How can you play *any* of his games and actually utter this?

MGS4, back pedaling on things like Vamp, removing all mystery surrounding The Patriots, many things about that game.

And I'm still convinced Death Stranding has so much gameplay because of the criticism his games received as "movies"

 

[Milwaukee Macho Man]

Metal Gear Solid 4 wasn't him apologizing to "haters" though, it was a direct fuck you to his fanboys who sent him death threats to work on the damn game. The complaints about his games being movies didn't even pop up until MGS4 came out and it was literally more cutscene than gameplay and the biggest issue people had with him before this was the bait and switch with MGS2 and Raiden.

Once again, Kojima does what he wants. Even when he is seemingly giving you something he asked for, he is doing it in a way to fuck with you, and this has always been geared more towards his fans than any sort of "haters". This is like the entire thing with MGS2 where he literally gave fanboys "another" MGS2 with a ninja because the fanbase was goo goo gaa gaa with Gray Fox.

 

[Gravemind]

The biggest issue in MGSV was simply having to fly to and from Mother Base over and over and over and over (how long would a helicopter ride from the Indian ocean to Afghanistan take?)

You actually don't have to do that at all if you don't want to.

You can start most missions from the open world on your iDroid and, once you've completed the objective, you don't have to call your helicopter to evac you – you can just leave the delineated mission area and the game will count it as completed.

 

[Dom Cruise]

Metal Gear Solid 4 wasn't him apologizing to "haters" though, it was a direct fuck you to his fanboys who sent him death threats to work on the damn game. The complaints about his games being movies didn't even pop up until MGS4 came out and it was literally more cutscene than gameplay and the biggest issue people had with him before this was the bait and switch with MGS2 and Raiden.

Once again, Kojima does what he wants. Even when he is seemingly giving you something he asked for, he is doing it in a way to fuck with you, and this has always been geared more towards his fans than any sort of "haters". This is like the entire thing with MGS2 where he literally gave fanboys "another" MGS2 with a ninja because the fanbase was goo goo gaa gaa with Gray Fox.

How is someone a fanboy if they're sending someone death threats? That sounds like "hater" category to me.

And whether it was a "fuck you" or an "apology" is all in how you interpret the game I guess, but either way my point is that was a game made taking negative opinions too much into account instead of doing what Kojima wanted to do, it was where he went "ok, fine, you want a sequel to Sons of Liberty that takes all the mystery out of it? Here you go"

His heart very obviously was not in the game, is that an example of "he does what he wants"? I guess it sort of is, ie he half asses it if he wants to, but what he REALLY wanted to do was not make a direct sequel to MGS2 at all, so how is 4 a case of "he does what he wants"?

Also, people did complain about "too many cutscenes, not enough gameplay" as far back as MGS2, the idea of his games being things you spend more time watching than playing did not start with MGS4.

Can't find the clip online but I remember Sessler on Extended Play, the precursor to X-Play, devoting a whole segment to whining about the number of MGS2's cutscenes.

You actually don't have to do that at all if you don't want to.

You can start most missions from the open world on your iDroid and, once you've completed the objective, you don't have to call your helicopter to evac you – you can just leave the delineated mission area and the game will count it as completed.

Ah, somehow I never picked up on that.

But the large, open world areas with plenty of empty space in between areas of note did give V a very different pacing than the other games, Ground Zeroes kind of did it best by still having the "Grand Theft Metal Gear" elements but being focused on a smaller map with more going on.

But really, the open world in Phantom Pain was not a big issue as it was at least easy to traverse and the gameplay within it was good, what really sucked was Death Stranding, where the open world is a pain to traverse because of so many obstacles and the moment to moment gameplay is simply not fun, the only moments of fun are when you build things that allow to simply get from point A to B faster.

 

[Milwaukee Macho Man]

How is someone a fanboy if they're sending someone death threats? That sounds like "hater" category to me.

You're starting to see why I have a general disdain for Kojima fanboys. They're all unhinged basement dwelling retards who hold the guy to such a high standard that when he said he didn't want to keep making MGS games they lost their collective shit.

Why would a "hater" be *that* obsessed with him coming back to direct the game? Wouldn't a hater want someone else to direct the series at that point?

Also, Sessler has never been the voice of gaming and often complained about anything if it made a good skit. He also thought Gone Home was GOTY, do you think that was also the general opinion of the gaming community at large?

 

[LightDragonman1]

There has been several theories that MGS4 was made the way it was, and took the direction it went for the story, because Kojima specifically didn't want to make it, and was subtly (or unsubtly) flipping the bird at all those who wanted explanations and the like.

The author of these pieces is a bit divisive, but he makes a pretty good case for it being true. I especially recommend reading all the parts of the third link. It's pretty eye-opening.

https://www.metagearsolid.org/reports_mgs4_longdark.html

https://www.metagearsolid.org/reports_mgs4_kojimaVSmgs4.html

https://www.metagearsolid.org/reports_mgs4_soldout_1.html

 

[SSj_Ness (Yiffed)]

I didn't like MGS4 much so he succeeded at flipping me the bird.

 

[Milwaukee Macho Man]

It's been 7 years and people are still going on about Chapter 3.

 

[SSj_Ness (Yiffed)]

That was an interesting video, but also cringe as fuck. They were way too dramatic, it's just a video game.

 

[Milwaukee Macho Man]

That was an interesting video, but also cringe as fuck. They were way too dramatic, it's just a video game.

Some people can't just accept that Kojima scrapped Kingdom of the Flies in favor of the Venom Snake reveal long before he was even booted from the game, and that all that Chapter 3 may have been was a fucking Epilogue Card and a Kojima Emblem.